Legend of Dragoon (Speed Run)

The2012Robot

2013-07-14 10:37:34 pm

I run for fun :)

https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/rpg_speedrun_notes_or_just_notes_in_general.html

For reasons discussed in the thread above, I have decided to share my route and make it the best it can be with the community's help. First of all, I will make the route public via Google Drive and only the person(s) of my choosing will be able to update it. Parts of my notes may not be understandable by anyone other than myself, so I would like some help turning this route into a real guide that anyone can use 100%- think GameFAQs (who knows, it may end up on GFAQs if it's done well enough). So it will be a team project. If you're anyone is (still) interested in contributing in any way, please let me know either here or on Skype (Bastian Brandt). Bring on the questions.

Once a more fleshed out guide for Albert's route is complete, we can make a separate guide from it adapted for Haschel (because the guides will be very similar).

My next post will be the route and other notes.

The2012Robot

Edit history:

The2012Robot: 2013-07-15 09:48:15 pm

The2012Robot: 2013-07-15 09:48:12 pm

The2012Robot: 2013-07-15 09:48:11 pm

2013-07-15 01:15:46 am

I run for fun :)

Ready for viewing Smiley

The Legend of Dragoon | Speed Run - SS (Albert): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZS6tJg9JMl0pqHId3_eyNq_p92okbC1Eh_K1dgxSOiM/edit?usp=sharing

The2012Robot

Edit history:

The2012Robot: 2013-07-15 10:47:07 pm

The2012Robot: 2013-07-15 10:34:49 pm

The2012Robot: 2013-07-15 10:34:38 pm

2013-07-15 09:42:22 pm

I run for fun :)

Update 1: I have added a FAQ to the end of the guide for any questions people may have. Feel free to ask and discuss as usual. Also, if there's something in the document that you don't understand, please let me know so I can make it understandable.

Update 2: Added a "How to use this guide" section.

rocketmaster23

2013-07-24 01:17:45 am

I am new here and the only real thing I know that may or may not help depending on what d lvl. you have Rosa at but in the second fight with fruegal if u have her use her lvl. 3 dragoon magic u can instant kill Rodriguez and Guftas idk if we all know this or not but just figured I would throw it out there

The2012Robot

2013-07-24 02:43:25 am

I run for fun :)

Welcome to SDA Smiley

Guftas and Rodriguez are a bit strange in that they are treated like regular enemies, but there is no way to take advantage of that fact without losing time in the end. Rose doesn't even get to D. lvl. 2 by the time you're done with her, so you would lose a lot of time grinding just to use her Death Dimension (pretty sure that's what it's called). This would be a good thing to add to the FAQ section of the guide- I've seen a fair amount of posts regarding this fight and the possibilities of exploiting the enemies' unique properties.

Raelcun

Edit history:

Raelcun: 2013-07-24 02:15:07 pm

Raelcun: 2013-07-24 02:03:10 pm

Raelcun: 2013-07-24 02:01:55 pm

2013-07-24 02:00:54 pm

We require more minerals

The only reason I'm posting right now is for the benefit of others who might not know.

With that being known, why in the ever living hell would you post out of date notes under the guise of sharing your notes so that you can make a guide? Looking at these notes you have stuff in here that I know you already changed and also don't have any notes as to how to use your charm potions which is a major point on actually making this route work.

Every section has not only notations that are wrong but waste significant portions of time. Some of your boss strategies are so wrong that they don't actually work. For anyone who is considering even looking at these notes, take them with a major grain of salt and at the very most a bare bones idea on how to get through the game. The details on this list of notes are so completely wrong that I can't help but wonder if you did it on purpose.

It would take me far too long to go through what's wrong with these notes in depth, and I don't have to because based on talking to you I know you have more up to date notes than this.

The only reason I'm posting right now is for the benefit of others who might not know.

With that being known, why in the ever living hell would you post out of date notes under the guise of sharing your notes so that you can make a guide? Looking at these notes you have stuff in here that I know you already changed and also don't have any notes as to how to use your charm potions which is a major point on actually making this route work.

Every section has not only notations that are wrong but waste significant portions of time. Some of your boss strategies are so wrong that they don't actually work. For anyone who is considering even looking at these notes, take them with a major grain of salt and at the very most a bare bones idea on how to get through the game. The details on this list of notes are so completely wrong that I can't help but wonder if you did it on purpose.

It would take me far too long to go through what's wrong with these notes in depth, and I don't have to because based on talking to you I [i]know[/i] you have more up to date notes than this.

The2012robot

2013-07-24 05:16:29 pm

First of all, I never said that my notes were complete. I wrote them shorthand in a way that I could read them, without regard to whether or not someone else could. Now that I want to share my notes, I have to rewrite a ton of it. I released them in their current state because I wanted to get them out there and there are a good amount of things in there already that I thought people would understand from an execution standpoint- like shops and battles.

CP use isn't rocket science; use them when the cursor is red. I can't believe you're actually complaining about this of all things.

What notations are completely wrong in every section? I beat your time with these notes on console- not officially because I didn't record it, but you can take my word for it, not that you will. And please point out the parts that you say I've left outdated. I could see how you would find some of the boss strategies to be wrong considering I didn't put a ton of detail into each one, but they do work. Just need to go into more detail.

There may be a couple strategies I have yet to update completely, but it's pretty much all there. To accuse me of releasing outdated notes just to fuck with people, and to not even give one example of a "completely wrong" strategy is just plain moronic.

First of all, I never said that my notes were complete. I wrote them shorthand in a way that I could read them, without regard to whether or not someone else could. Now that I want to share my notes, I have to rewrite a ton of it. I released them in their current state because I wanted to get them out there and there are a good amount of things in there already that I thought people would understand from an execution standpoint- like shops and battles.

CP use isn't rocket science; use them when the cursor is red. I can't believe you're actually complaining about this of all things.

What notations are completely wrong in every section? I beat your time with these notes on console- not officially because I didn't record it, but you can take my word for it, not that you will. And please point out the parts that you say I've left outdated. I could see how you would find some of the boss strategies to be wrong considering I didn't put a ton of detail into each one, but they do work. Just need to go into more detail.

There may be a couple strategies I have yet to update completely, but it's pretty much all there. To accuse me of releasing outdated notes just to fuck with people, and to not even give one example of a "completely wrong" strategy is just plain moronic.

Rakuen

Edit history:

Rakuen: 2013-07-24 08:51:21 pm

2013-07-24 08:50:08 pm

Weegee Time

If you want to discuss strategies, this is the thread to do it. If you want to have a pissing contest, take it to the private channels. Nobody wants to read your interpersonal drama, least of all when they're looking for actual help learning the game. You'd both do well to water down the vitriol and stick to the strats. Thanks.

Raelcun

2013-07-24 10:26:52 pm

We require more minerals

I’m not going to argue with you Robot but here’s a list of the issues I spotted upon reading your notes. Keep in mind this is after not touching the game for nearly 6 months. I am certain that there are more but I really don’t care enough to pick through it in detail to find the rest I haven’t really touched the game at all since the run.

Your listed charm potion usage is wrong because you push your usage of them by entering the menu to delay battles and didn’t put any notifications as to how or when you do this. “Use them when your cursor is red” is both wrong and misleading. Your route is designed to use less charm potions so that you can carry excesses of other items. Failing to note this at any point creates a route that doesn’t avoid random encounters unless you explain how you’re getting less encounters.

It’s faster to lose to the archer in the arena (4th fight) if he gets the turn order that would give him his special attack before you would win. Unequip Dart's armor before this fight instead of Lloyd’s and you wind up saving 10-15 seconds over trying to win the fight if you get the bad turn order.

You can easily kill the Firebird with three spear frosts and save yourself on extra inventory space.

You pick up a Total Vanishing and then use it on a random encounter instead of Guftas.

You get the therapy ring in Hellena and equip it before Fruegel 2, this wastes multiple minutes for no reason at all.

Your Jiango fight is super risky because you throw a satchet before anything else and then require more turns to finish him than before he’ll wake up. He could just kill you if he gets a bad turn order. Do damage to him first and then throw the Satchet so that he dies while asleep and you can heal up damage he does while he's asleep.

You don’t equip Gust of Wind Dance until Disc 2 when it can be used to save time on all of the forced guard encounters before Fruegel 2, Fruegel himself and forced guard fights in Black Castle.

You throw 3 extra items on Lenus & Regole instead of using Gushing Magmas to kill Regole.

You don’t buy an attack badge?

Your Grand Jewel fight doesn't even attempt to kill him before heals. It’s difficult but it doesn’t waste any time to try and saves several minutes if it works.

Your Windigo strategy doesn’t work, you trigger him by attacking. Defending will never trigger his heart to appear and even if it did would be slower. 8 Windigo turns is way slower than failing additions to trigger it.

You say to buy 9 spark nets before Lloyd and then use 10. You say to use Power Up twice in that fight.
-The talisman doesn’t save time on paper, but it also doesn’t waste any time. It has the opportunity to save time by manipulating his AI to the point where you don’t need to heal before the ultimate attack after 6000 damage. This also gets rid of a lot of randomness, something you complain about in this game.

You don’t buy the Magical Greaves in Ulara despite them being the best shoes second only to Bandit’s Shoes and also give 10 agility.

If you do 4k damage to the last kraken and use a PU/PD PBX and 2x Burnout from a power upped Meru you don’t need any additional attacks from the other party members.

Your K V S strategy relies on mashing an attack item to 230% ~10 hours into a run which is frankly unrealistic.

You use the PBX on Lavitz instead of Zackwell and an excess of TLs on Zackwell to make up for it. Use one TL on Lavitz and then PBX on Zackwell and you wind up using less attack items and save time.

Having Rose or Dart throw PBX on Michael doesn’t matter and saves time if you get a Rose turn instead of a Dart turn.

You can kill the Super Virage in four attacking turns without using any items besides PBX (I messed this up in my run because of previous errors) Power up Meru and then speed up Albert so that it’s PBX Dart and two Albert hits.

The numbers of attack items you use doesn’t match up with what you pick up and buy because of your own notes saying you need to update them at the end.

You make no notations for how to use Crush Dance, and then say at the end that you’re going to update the route for the usage of it which changes the entire route.

None of these are new and I assumed you knew them. My interactions with you over the last year or so have been so tiresome that I spoke with more annoyance than I should have.

I’m not going to argue with you Robot but here’s a list of the issues I spotted upon reading your notes. Keep in mind this is after not touching the game for nearly 6 months. I am certain that there are more but I really don’t care enough to pick through it in detail to find the rest I haven’t really touched the game at all since the run.

Your listed charm potion usage is wrong because you push your usage of them by entering the menu to delay battles and didn’t put any notifications as to how or when you do this. “Use them when your cursor is red” is both wrong and misleading. Your route is designed to use less charm potions so that you can carry excesses of other items. Failing to note this at any point creates a route that doesn’t avoid random encounters unless you explain how you’re getting less encounters.

It’s faster to lose to the archer in the arena (4th fight) if he gets the turn order that would give him his special attack before you would win. Unequip Dart's armor before this fight instead of Lloyd’s and you wind up saving 10-15 seconds over trying to win the fight if you get the bad turn order.

You can easily kill the Firebird with three spear frosts and save yourself on extra inventory space.

You pick up a Total Vanishing and then use it on a [i]random encounter[/i] instead of Guftas.

You get the therapy ring in Hellena and equip it before Fruegel 2, this wastes multiple minutes for no reason at all.

Your Jiango fight is super risky because you throw a satchet before anything else and then require more turns to finish him than before he’ll wake up. He could just kill you if he gets a bad turn order. Do damage to him first and then throw the Satchet so that he dies while asleep and you can heal up damage he does while he's asleep.

You don’t equip Gust of Wind Dance until Disc 2 when it can be used to save time on all of the forced guard encounters before Fruegel 2, Fruegel himself and forced guard fights in Black Castle.

You throw 3 extra items on Lenus & Regole instead of using Gushing Magmas to kill Regole.

You don’t buy an attack badge?

Your Grand Jewel fight doesn't even attempt to kill him before heals. It’s difficult but it doesn’t waste any time to try and saves several minutes if it works.

Your Windigo strategy doesn’t work, you trigger him by attacking. Defending will never trigger his heart to appear and even if it did would be slower. 8 Windigo turns is way slower than failing additions to trigger it.

You say to buy 9 spark nets before Lloyd and then use 10. You say to use Power Up twice in that fight. 
-The talisman doesn’t save time on paper, but it also doesn’t waste any time. It has the opportunity to save time by manipulating his AI to the point where you don’t need to heal before the ultimate attack after 6000 damage. This also gets rid of a lot of randomness, something you complain about in this game.

You don’t buy the Magical Greaves in Ulara despite them being the best shoes second only to Bandit’s Shoes and also give 10 agility.

If you do 4k damage to the last kraken and use a PU/PD PBX and 2x Burnout from a power upped Meru you don’t need any additional attacks from the other party members.

Your K V S strategy relies on mashing an attack item to 230% ~10 hours into a run which is frankly unrealistic.

You use the PBX on Lavitz instead of Zackwell and an excess of TLs on Zackwell to make up for it. Use one TL on Lavitz and then PBX on Zackwell and you wind up using less attack items and save time.

Having Rose or Dart throw PBX on Michael doesn’t matter and saves time if you get a Rose turn instead of a Dart turn.

You can kill the Super Virage in four attacking turns without using any items besides PBX (I messed this up in my run because of previous errors) Power up Meru and then speed up Albert so that it’s PBX Dart and two Albert hits.

The numbers of attack items you use doesn’t match up with what you pick up and buy because of your own notes saying you need to update them at the end.

You make no notations for how to use Crush Dance, and then say at the end that you’re going to update the route for the usage of it which changes the entire route.

None of these are new and I assumed you knew them. My interactions with you over the last year or so have been so tiresome that I spoke with more annoyance than I should have.

The2012Robot

Edit history:

The2012Robot: 2013-07-27 10:22:07 pm

The2012Robot: 2013-07-27 10:21:36 pm

The2012Robot: 2013-07-25 12:28:49 am

2013-07-25 12:28:28 am

I run for fun :)

Alright, here we go. (Not using quotes because I'm lazy).

The CPs do need some work. You're obviously meant to use them right before you get into a battle. "(when red)" is meant to imply that to myself. When these notes were exclusively mine, I didn't feel like going into much more detail than that was necessary because I'm so familiar with the route. As for delaying battles with the menu, I only do this at the end of the game unless I need to improvise because I used a CP too early or messed up some movement. Getting past battles this way is much faster than trying to blast through them, and it's not that hard for me to pull off- I don't even remember the last time I messed up. Thank you for catching this. I will add a section on delaying battles with the menu and get into more detail on the specific areas I use it in.

I hadn't thought of taking off my equipment for this fight. I tested killing him versus not using the worst turn order I could get and killing him was faster. I will have to try using weaker equipment for him and Lloyd.

Firebird: The 4 SFs must be a typo.

Therapy Ring: I get it to keep Rose safer after a bunch of unlucky bouts with Fruegal. It's obviously not necessary, it just makes him and Doel a bit less risky and I thought that the time lost was worth it at the time considering how the this SS is. I'd like to hear more from you on this.

Jiango: He usually only gets 1 attack if any brute forcing him, so I can see how your strategy would usually be better for your health. Then again, I would most likely need to heal at the top of the stairs anyway, so I'm not the mitigated damage would matter.

GoWD: I'm not sure I have GoWD by the time I hit Hellena. Regardless, reading through my battle strategies for Hellena and Kazas, it doesn't look like I need the damage that GoWD would add, not to mention the attack obviously lasts longer than Harpoon. On that note, using GoWD with Twister Glaive on Kongol is actually slower than using just SGs.

Dragoon Lenus: Using Gushing Magma makes killing Regole take longer, meaning he has more time to attack you and even possibly use his ultimate. You only use 6 GMs?

Attack Badge: I'm assuming Dart would equip it because Albert gets to have it in my run. I don't know how much gold I have by the time Furni rolls around, but 1000g seems like a lot, especially when I end up with nearly 0g after the last shop visit. The Grand Jewel and Last Kraken might be beatable in 1 less turn. Imago would probably take 1 less turn. I think those are the only bosses that last long enough to actually benefit from the Attack Badge.

Windigo: I just hadn't updated that strategy yet. Thanks for catching that.

Lloyd: Huh. I'll have to check test Lloyd again real quick. Hopefully I have enough room for 10 if that's what I need. Fixed the Power Up... I think. Don't remember how long it takes to grab the Talisman. But it takes time to transform, do the longer attack animation (if you get a perfect), and isn't that insta-kill attack pretty long? I hardly have to heal during this fight, but obviously I have to at least once (usually twice, I believe).

Last Kraken: I would probably rather get in my Crush Dances on him to help in that area. But yes, the strategy in my notes are outdated. I need to retest the Last Kraken to make sure I'm doing it right. No TLs either Tongue

KVS: I don't know. My arm just doesn't get that tired.

Zackwell: Wouldn't it take more time because you're not using as much magic because you have to fight Lavitz for a longer period of time? He also has that nastly status attack (don't remember if it's confusion or what).

Michael: I don't know why it says to have Dart use it, honestly. Rose probably died and I wasn't thinking when I only put Dart in the notes.

Super Virage: I experiment with him further.

Most of the attack items match up (although now I'm not so sure). Crush Dance barely changes any of the battles. Lenus takes slightly longer, and maybe 1 or 2 others. But all the strategies remain in tact for the most part and I manage to get the amount of CDs I need, so it hardly changes the entire route.

Quote:

None of these are new and I assumed you knew them. My interactions with you over the last year or so have been so tiresome that I spoke with more annoyance than I should have.

Dude, I just want to be friends. I know I can be difficult and oblivious to what my actions could mean to other people.

Alright, here we go. (Not using quotes because I'm lazy).

The CPs do need some work. You're obviously meant to use them right before you get into a battle. "(when red)" is meant to imply that to myself. When these notes were exclusively mine, I didn't feel like going into much more detail than that was necessary because I'm so familiar with the route. As for delaying battles with the menu, I only do this at the end of the game unless I need to improvise because I used a CP too early or messed up some movement. Getting past battles this way is much faster than trying to blast through them, and it's not that hard for me to pull off- I don't even remember the last time I messed up. Thank you for catching this. I will add a section on delaying battles with the menu and get into more detail on the specific areas I use it in.

I hadn't thought of taking off my equipment for this fight. I tested killing him versus not using the worst turn order I could get and killing him was faster. I will have to try using weaker equipment for him and Lloyd.

Firebird: The 4 SFs must be a typo.

Therapy Ring: I get it to keep Rose safer after a bunch of unlucky bouts with Fruegal. It's obviously not necessary, it just makes him and Doel a bit less risky and I thought that the time lost was worth it at the time considering how the this SS is. I'd like to hear more from you on this.

Jiango: He usually only gets 1 attack if any brute forcing him, so I can see how your strategy would usually be better for your health. Then again, I would most likely need to heal at the top of the stairs anyway, so I'm not the mitigated damage would matter.

GoWD: I'm not sure I have GoWD by the time I hit Hellena. Regardless, reading through my battle strategies for Hellena and Kazas, it doesn't look like I need the damage that GoWD would add, not to mention the attack obviously lasts longer than Harpoon. On that note, using GoWD with Twister Glaive on Kongol is actually slower than using just SGs.

Dragoon Lenus: Using Gushing Magma makes killing Regole take longer, meaning he has more time to attack you and even possibly use his ultimate. You only use 6 GMs?

Attack Badge: I'm assuming Dart would equip it because Albert gets to have it in my run. I don't know how much gold I have by the time Furni rolls around, but 1000g seems like a lot, especially when I end up with nearly 0g after the last shop visit. The Grand Jewel and Last Kraken might be beatable in 1 less turn. Imago would probably take 1 less turn. I think those are the only bosses that last long enough to actually benefit from the Attack Badge.

Windigo: I just hadn't updated that strategy yet. Thanks for catching that.

Lloyd: Huh. I'll have to check test Lloyd again real quick. Hopefully I have enough room for 10 if that's what I need. Fixed the Power Up... I think. Don't remember how long it takes to grab the Talisman. But it takes time to transform, do the longer attack animation (if you get a perfect), and isn't that insta-kill attack pretty long? I hardly have to heal during this fight, but obviously I have to at least once (usually twice, I believe).

Last Kraken: I would probably rather get in my Crush Dances on him to help in that area. But yes, the strategy in my notes are outdated. I need to retest the Last Kraken to make sure I'm doing it right. No TLs either :P

KVS: I don't know. My arm just doesn't get that tired.

Zackwell: Wouldn't it take more time because you're not using as much magic because you have to fight Lavitz for a longer period of time? He also has that nastly status attack (don't remember if it's confusion or what).

Michael: I don't know why it says to have Dart use it, honestly. Rose probably died and I wasn't thinking when I only put Dart in the notes.

Super Virage: I experiment with him further.

Most of the attack items match up (although now I'm not so sure). Crush Dance barely changes any of the battles. Lenus takes slightly longer, and maybe 1 or 2 others. But all the strategies remain in tact for the most part and I manage to get the amount of CDs I need, so it hardly changes the entire route.

[quote]None of these are new and I assumed you knew them. My interactions with you over the last year or so have been so tiresome that I spoke with more annoyance than I should have.
[/quote]

Dude, I just want to be friends. I know I can be difficult and oblivious to what my actions could mean to other people.

The2012Robot

2013-07-28 12:04:12 am

I run for fun :)

Work I've done so far based on Raelcun's post:

Firebird: Definitely takes 4 SFs. He has 640 HP and an SF at 224% does 160 HP. If you're saying that you have Dart and Lavitz actually attack during this battle, then I would say that having them all attack is slower than letting Rose do all the work. In my testing, attacking with everyone was always slower. I think I tested this back in the day when my routing had finally gotten up to Firebird, but I don't remember if I actually did, so I retested and confirmed my assumption- additions take too damn long for such little damage, even in some cases where their damage can actually result in a battle with less turns. I don't think it's just the additions though. I don't want to argue about how the battle system works again, but I could swear that defending actually gives you more turns between the enemy's.

4th arena battle (Atlow): I'm still using the worst armor at this point of the run, but I retested him anyway. I must have got my times mixed up because you're absolutely correct that losing is faster, and I think it's actually faster 100% of the time unless Dart gets a double turn (not sure if that's even possible during this fight, especially considering that I don't know exactly how the battle system works).

Those were things that I could test right away. Since I'm short on time at the moment, that's all I have for now.

Work I've done so far based on Raelcun's post:

Firebird: Definitely takes 4 SFs. He has 640 HP and an SF at 224% does 160 HP. If you're saying that you have Dart and Lavitz actually attack during this battle, then I would say that having them all attack is slower than letting Rose do all the work. In my testing, attacking with everyone was always slower. I think I tested this back in the day when my routing had finally gotten up to Firebird, but I don't remember if I actually did, so I retested and confirmed my assumption- additions take too damn long for such little damage, even in some cases where their damage can actually result in a battle with less turns. I don't think it's just the additions though. I don't want to argue about how the battle system works again, but I could swear that defending actually gives you more turns between the enemy's.

4th arena battle (Atlow): I'm still using the worst armor at this point of the run, but I retested him anyway. I must have got my times mixed up because you're absolutely correct that losing is faster, and I think it's actually faster 100% of the time unless Dart gets a double turn (not sure if that's even possible during this fight, especially considering that I don't know exactly how the battle system works).

Those were things that I could test right away. Since I'm short on time at the moment, that's all I have for now.

Dark Matter

2013-08-16 02:48:29 pm

Quote from The2012Robot:

To really know for sure that none of the cutscenes in this game are skipable, we'd have to look at the actual code or test them through gameplay, hence why I'm posting this- if there's anyone out there that wants to help in a potentially big way, this is one of the ways you could do that- test cutscenes and look for glitches/exploits, and share any ideas you might have in this thread.

I registered JUST to let you know that my ps1/ps2 slim lets me skip the cut-scenes by opening the disk lid then closing it again. Saves lots of time. I have not tested EVERY cut-scene but I have yet to run into one where it doesn't work. I actually plan on a full one sit run to see what I can do time wise, looking for under 20 hours seeing as how I never speed run anything and this will be my first try. Definitly going to use your google doc for info.

rinimt

Edit history:

rinimt: 2013-08-16 03:02:51 pm

2013-08-16 03:00:18 pm

Kupo!

Quote from Dark Matter:

I registered JUST to let you know that my ps1/ps2 slim lets me skip the cut-scenes by opening the disk lid then closing it again. Saves lots of time. I have not tested EVERY cut-scene but I have yet to run into one where it doesn't work.

Much as you want to do this, you can't - it's considered hardware manipulation and banned by the community. The same thing could be done in FFIX but it isn't due to it being hardware manipulation.

The2012Robot

Edit history:

The2012Robot: 2013-08-17 02:23:39 am

2013-08-17 02:17:43 am

I run for fun :)

Quote from Dark Matter:

Quote from The2012Robot:

To really know for sure that none of the cutscenes in this game are skipable, we'd have to look at the actual code or test them through gameplay, hence why I'm posting this- if there's anyone out there that wants to help in a potentially big way, this is one of the ways you could do that- test cutscenes and look for glitches/exploits, and share any ideas you might have in this thread.

I registered JUST to let you know that my ps1/ps2 slim lets me skip the cut-scenes by opening the disk lid then closing it again. Saves lots of time. I have not tested EVERY cut-scene but I have yet to run into one where it doesn't work. I actually plan on a full one sit run to see what I can do time wise, looking for under 20 hours seeing as how I never speed run anything and this will be my first try. Definitly going to use your google doc for info.

If you have any questions about what anything means in the doc, feel free to ask. It's been awhile since I've worked on it, so I'll try and get some amount of work done on it tomorrow.

[quote="Dark Matter"][quote="The2012Robot"]
To really know for sure that none of the cutscenes in this game are skipable, we'd have to look at the actual code or test them through gameplay, hence why I'm posting this- if there's anyone out there that wants to help in a potentially big way, this is one of the ways you could do that- test cutscenes and look for glitches/exploits, and share any ideas you might have in this thread.
[/quote]

I registered JUST to let you know that my ps1/ps2 slim lets me skip the cut-scenes by opening the disk lid then closing it again. Saves lots of time. I have not tested EVERY cut-scene but I have yet to run into one where it doesn't work. I actually plan on a full one sit run to see what I can do time wise, looking for under 20 hours seeing as how I never speed run anything and this will be my first try. Definitly going to use your google doc for info. [/quote]

If you have any questions about what anything means in the doc, feel free to ask. It's been awhile since I've worked on it, so I'll try and get some amount of work done on it tomorrow.

dster

Edit history:

dster: 2014-01-15 04:19:41 pm

2014-01-15 04:18:58 pm

So I registered myself finally on SDA, just because of this game. LoD is one of my favourite RPGs on Ps1 but that doesn't matter here anyway.
I wanted to contribute something to his run, because I think this game really needs a Speedrun that has a "normal" time.

So far I've seen the runs of Omnicent (but that was just the first CD) and the run of Raelcun. I have read the most of this Thread but I haven't seen any suggestion on a new game+ run to drop down the time.
Well as all of you know there is no "regular" new game+, but there is a save corrupt glitch, that allows you to start your new game with all of your dragoon spirits and your equipment (if you do it correctly). Sometimes a few
Enemies are despawned as well. For example the commander in Seles.

So with this you could have all the "super items" from lohan (if you have it on another save file) from the beginning. Plus you could skip the whole part with getting the white Dragoon spirit for Shana, cause you already have it. So you could just re-enter and go on with the run.

Here's the link to the glitch:

Let me know what you think of it and if you might give it a try. If everything works right, the time could be almost halved I guess.

So I registered myself finally on SDA, just because of this game. LoD is one of my favourite RPGs on Ps1 but that doesn't matter here anyway. 
I wanted to contribute something to his run, because I think this game really needs a Speedrun that has a "normal" time.

So far I've seen the runs of Omnicent (but that was just the first CD) and the run of Raelcun. I have read the most of this Thread but I haven't seen any suggestion on a new game+ run to drop down the time. 
Well as all of you know there is no "regular" new game+, but there is a save corrupt glitch, that allows you to start your new game with all of your dragoon spirits and your equipment (if you do it correctly). Sometimes a few
Enemies are despawned as well. For example the commander in Seles.

So with this you could have all the "super items" from lohan (if you have it on another save file) from the beginning. Plus you could skip the whole part with getting the white Dragoon spirit for Shana, cause you already have it. So you could just re-enter and go on with the run.

Here's the link to the glitch: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM3biRJuG1g[/url]

Let me know what you think of it and if you might give it a try. If everything works right, the time could be almost halved I guess.

The2012Robot

2014-01-16 02:18:59 am

I run for fun :)

From what I understand, what carries over in the save glitch can vary greatly. Therefore certain skips one glitched save can perform, another may not. This would make actually running a "new game+" a chore to begin with because you would have to play the game up until the skip you want to see if your glitch was "successful". I haven't actually played through a glitched save yet, so I don't know very much about it first-hand.

dster

Edit history:

dster: 2014-01-16 06:49:55 am

2014-01-16 06:49:30 am

Yea it can vary greatly true, but if you know what to look out for (all dragoon spirits, the magic AT boost items from lohan and some speed up items) it shouldn't be a problem at all.

All you have to do is get it on another save file where you're on the moon at the last save point, and then start a new game and save on the first save point in the game.
After that you do the glitch until you have all dragoon spirits and the items you want on the new save file and continue playing. Sure it takes some time to perform the glitch the way
you need it, but after all it still will be a huge time saver throughout the whole game.

Raelcun

2014-01-16 10:08:37 am

We require more minerals

I've looked into doing a run of that, but it would be a different category. If I did a run of that it would be for fun, because it's a very sill ything and LoD is a very unstable game. I was doing a casual playthrough to set up the glitch by getting a file with high level characters and additions etc when the game froze in Lohan. THere's a small chance that the game can freeze anywhere, so I've pretty much had no motivation to continue LoD since it's too easy to lose a run to the random chance of the game freezing.

Omnigamer

2014-01-16 11:39:24 am

All the things

There have been similar cases of save "carry-over" glitches in the past (Sly 2, I think?). SDA's standpoint is that in the case of such glitches, any time spent setting up the other file would also count toward the timing of the otherwise "New Game" run. That shouldn't stop you from giving it a try and playing around with it, but that's probably how it will end up being timed as far as SDA is concerned.

dster

2014-01-16 02:35:17 pm

Hm well, ok that makes it kinda pointless. To bad though. Was just wondering cause last year on AGDQ the Pokemon run had a save corrupt glitch as well, which wasn't using another save file, yet it still
was kinda similiar. But in that case it looks like we have to wait till someone finally breaks the game.

Raelcun

2014-01-16 05:21:35 pm

We require more minerals

Quote from Omnigamer:

There have been similar cases of save "carry-over" glitches in the past (Sly 2, I think?). SDA's standpoint is that in the case of such glitches, any time spent setting up the other file would also count toward the timing of the otherwise "New Game" run. That shouldn't stop you from giving it a try and playing around with it, but that's probably how it will end up being timed as far as SDA is concerned.

As far as I knew, any category that involves carrying over information from a previous playthrough is considered a new game+ category and doesn't include the timing from the previous save file.

The2012Robot

Edit history:

The2012Robot: 2014-01-16 09:33:31 pm

2014-01-16 09:32:59 pm

I run for fun :)

Raelcun, you may want to get a different PS2 or copy of TLoD; it's never randomly frozen on me once. Maybe I'm just lucky. Reminds me of Star Ocean 2 though... man it sucks to get freezes in the Cave of Trials.

Omnigamer

2014-01-17 08:05:43 am

All the things

This is the thread that I am referencing in regard to my statement. That said, it took quite some searching to find it and to my knowledge it's not clearly laid out in the rules anywhere. Might be time for a clarification.

dster

2014-01-17 09:32:33 am

Yea the FF-X speedrun of new game+ on the site doesn't take the time from the other run either.

I'm using the PSN Version of LoD on my Ps3 and I'm playing at my current save file like 50h+ and it didn't freeze anywhere
so far. Maybe that just happened on the older consoles. Can't check it though, cause my CD 3 won't work anymore, that's why I had to rebuy it.

Omnigamer

2014-01-17 12:44:16 pm

All the things

There is a distinction between NG+ that is built into the game and a "carry-over" glitch such as this. I came across a few other cases while searching that bring up similar glitches (Skyward Sword and OoT3D). The general ruling seems to be this: if the run involves glitches that require loading a complete or specially constructed file, the time needed to construct those files should also be included in the timing. This stems from the case that carry-over glitches are borrowing story triggers or properties from an otherwise unrelated file, which it sounds like this glitch does.

Consider it this way:
-NG+ typically works by starting you with some bonuses according to a previous full playthrough. The game is still complete, and everything is started fresh as far as story and progression are concerned.
-Carry-over glitches are more akin to forcing a bad load. You aren't playing a new game, but instead taking the data from an already complete or in-progress game while forcing your progression to a certain point of the story (the beginning).

That said, nothing's stopping anybody from further experimenting with it or running it. My point for now is that it might not hold up to SDA submission rules based on past precedent.

There is a distinction between NG+ that is built into the game and a "carry-over" glitch such as this. I came across a few other cases while searching that bring up similar glitches (Skyward Sword and OoT3D). The general ruling seems to be this: if the run involves glitches that require loading a complete or specially constructed file, the time needed to construct those files should also be included in the timing. This stems from the case that carry-over glitches are borrowing story triggers or properties from an otherwise unrelated file, which it sounds like this glitch does.

Consider it this way: 
-NG+ typically works by starting you with some bonuses according to a previous full playthrough. The game is still complete, and everything is started fresh as far as story and progression are concerned.
-Carry-over glitches are more akin to forcing a bad load. You aren't playing a new game, but instead taking the data from an already complete or in-progress game while forcing your progression to a certain point of the story (the beginning).

That said, nothing's stopping anybody from further experimenting with it or running it. My point for now is that it might not hold up to SDA submission rules based on past precedent.