Legend of Dragoon (Speed Run)

2014-11-13 12:43:15 pm

Hello all! I am about to start another WR SS attempt! After this run, live or die, I will post my thoughts and comments on what happened during the run to maybe help anyone else who may have questions. Cheesy

Fly

2014-11-14 01:54:13 am

Speedy Rodriguez

Quote from The2012Robot:

Hector's videos have proven most useful! I got a 260% earlier. No joke. Unfortunately I wasn't recording at the time because I was just figuring out how to adapt his techniques to a PS2 controller. I spent 20 minutes tonight trying with back-to-back attempts to mash another 260% while recording, but I couldn't... well, half of my footage had to be scrapped because I placed my webcam over the percentages in XSplit and didn't realize it until halfway (and I did get some 250%+, I could tell because 250% starts doing 15 damage). But in the subsequent footage, I did manage to get several 250%s or more, including a 258%. Around 80% or more of my mashes during that time period (8:30) were 240%+, and around 95% were 234%+... And here's the video! Smiley

I think the technique is pretty self-explanatory, at least if you watch Hector's "Track and Field NES Button Mashing Secret Technique". If it's not, just let me know and I'll make a tutorial!

Imagine what you could get if you were actually doing it fast. Wink

I kid, I kid. Looked like you had a good rhythm there.

I'm not familiar with this game so I have a few questions.

Does it have a % max?

What % were you getting before using this tech?

What % were people saying is not possible?

How far into the game before I can give this a try? The game itself might not interest me, but I would like to try this mashing just to see what I can do.

Hec

[quote="The2012Robot"]Hector's videos have proven most useful! I got a 260% earlier. No joke. Unfortunately I wasn't recording at the time because I was just figuring out how to adapt his techniques to a PS2 controller. I spent 20 minutes tonight trying with back-to-back attempts to mash another 260% while recording, but I couldn't... well, half of my footage had to be scrapped because I placed my webcam over the percentages in XSplit and didn't realize it until halfway (and I did get some 250%+, I could tell because 250% starts doing 15 damage). But in the subsequent footage, I did manage to get several 250%s or more, including a 258%. Around 80% or more of my mashes during that time period (8:30) were 240%+, and around 95% were 234%+... And here's the video! :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3L7O6grlVg[/flash]

I think the technique is pretty self-explanatory, at least if you watch Hector's "Track and Field NES Button Mashing Secret Technique". If it's not, just let me know and I'll make a tutorial![/quote]

Imagine what you could get if you were actually doing it fast. ;) I kid, I kid. Looked like you had a good rhythm there.

I'm not familiar with this game so I have a few questions.

Does it have a % max?

What % were you getting before using this tech?

What % were people saying is not possible?

How far into the game before I can give this a try?  The game itself might not interest me, but I would like to try this mashing just to see what I can do.

Hec

The2012Robot

Edit history:

The2012Robot: 2014-11-14 02:29:22 am

The2012Robot: 2014-11-14 02:29:11 am

The2012Robot: 2014-11-14 02:25:46 am

2014-11-14 02:24:58 am

I run for fun :)

Hey Hector. The most I've ever mashed somewhere above 240% using just the vibration of my index finger. Usually I would hit around 228% with that method. The average would be higher depending on the day.

The max is around 268%... at least, that's what a turbo controller will get you.

I told Jimmy that I got a 260% before I had proof, and based on previous performance and no evidence of my new capabilities yet, he rightfully questioned my assertion. I don't think I've ever seen anyone else hit 260% without using a tool, turbo or otherwise. Jimmy said he's already got a 258% with this adapted technique though, so I think these high percentages are going to be commonplace from here on out.

You can try it out within 15 minutes of starting the game Smiley

The item that you will use in your inventory is called Burn Out.

I wasn't able to vibrate back and forth and still hit the button accurately, so I had to improvise. Thankfully, this method is still quite better than the old one, and essentially makes anyone's methods of using lighters or pens on there controllers obsolete because of how easy this is to pick up, which is obviously a fantastic thing because there shouldn't be any more debate about whether using lighters or pens is "legit" or not--there's no point anymore Cheesy

...unless of course there's someone out there that can hit above 260% consistently with a tool o_O

And here's my tutorial:

Hey Hector. The most I've ever mashed somewhere above 240% using just the vibration of my index finger. Usually I would hit around 228% with that method. The average would be higher depending on the day.

The max is around 268%... at least, that's what a turbo controller will get you.

I told Jimmy that I got a 260% before I had proof, and based on previous performance and no evidence of my new capabilities yet, he rightfully questioned my assertion. I don't think I've ever seen anyone else hit 260% without using a tool, turbo or otherwise. Jimmy said he's already got a 258% with this adapted technique though, so I think these high percentages are going to be commonplace from here on out.

You can try it out within 15 minutes of starting the game :)  The item that you will use in your inventory is called Burn Out.

I wasn't able to vibrate back and forth and still hit the button accurately, so I had to improvise. Thankfully, this method is still quite better than the old one, and essentially makes anyone's methods of using lighters or pens on there controllers obsolete because of how easy this is to pick up, which is obviously a fantastic thing because there shouldn't be any more debate about whether using lighters or pens is "legit" or not--there's no point anymore :D  ...unless of course there's someone out there that can hit above 260% consistently with a tool o_O

And here's my tutorial:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1LBYofu2UQ[/flash]

PJ

2014-11-14 05:17:14 pm

Is PJ

Oh man, FlyHec trying LoD mashing? Incoming game crash via percentage overflow.

Deathtome

Edit history:

Deathtome: 2014-12-14 01:40:23 am

Deathtome: 2014-11-15 06:34:24 pm

Deathtome: 2014-11-15 06:33:28 pm

Deathtome: 2014-11-15 06:32:42 pm

2014-11-15 06:32:13 pm

Hello guys! I did a new run today (Legit this time). Ended up with a time of 12:20:45.

I have to give special credits to Robot for showing the new mash technique. Without it my time would not have been as strong as it is. Smiley

The highest mash was 264% (Legit). Thanks mates. ;---)

The2012Robot

Edit history:

The2012Robot: 2014-11-15 06:56:24 pm

2014-11-15 06:47:03 pm

I run for fun :)

I still have the disc 1 WR Kappa. But seriously, great job! I didn't expect to see a run from you so quickly. Are you going to try for a better time? I'm going to look over your run to see what can be improved upon route-wise, for my route and yours. At this point, because you are routing Albert, the only differences between our routes should be safety measures. Also, to clarify to anyone who thinks I'm running a 90k--I'm not. My PS2 is a 70k that's been taken apart multiple times and will only operate at FDS if I use smooth textures as well, which I haven't confirmed to be faster or slower than anyone else's load times. To clarify the strangeness of my PS2's performance issues, if I only turn on FDS, the game actually loads slower than with it off, even extremely slow at some points. For some reason smooth textures fixes my problem. If I notice that our load times are significantly different, I might consider holding off on any future disc attempts until I get my hands on a new(ish) PS2.

EDIT: Actually, it would be way less time consuming if you (Deathtome) could read through my notes and point out all the differences--I don't have time to watch your whole run, and I don't have your notes to look at like you have mine.

I still have the disc 1 WR Kappa. But seriously, great job! I didn't expect to see a run from you so quickly. Are you going to try for a better time? I'm going to look over your run to see what can be improved upon route-wise, for my route and yours. At this point, because you are routing Albert, the only differences between our routes should be safety measures. Also, to clarify to anyone who thinks I'm running a 90k--I'm not. My PS2 is a 70k that's been taken apart multiple times and will only operate at FDS if I use smooth textures as well, which I haven't confirmed to be faster or slower than anyone else's load times. To clarify the strangeness of my PS2's performance issues, if I only turn on FDS, the game actually loads slower than with it off, even extremely slow at some points. For some reason smooth textures fixes my problem. If I notice that our load times are significantly different, I might consider holding off on any future disc attempts until I get my hands on a new(ish) PS2.

EDIT: Actually, it would be way less time consuming if you (Deathtome) could read through my notes and point out all the differences--I don't have time to watch your whole run, and I don't have your notes to look at like you have mine.

Deathtome

2014-11-15 07:17:49 pm

I probably will not improve my time in a while. It was a good run RNG-wise, but I think I will wait for someone else to beat it before I try again. I am not sure what to do. I will however improve my Turbo route until then. I just transfered my Turbo notes to a Legit run (with some adaptions like +1 extra attack item here and there).

Oh, but I find no difference in Smooth/Normal. I played without Smooth settings. I would advise you to get one 90K model instead. ;---)

I have read through your notes breifly at some point but I find mostly outdated strategies. I don't know if the guide is up-to-date, but I have been working on my route individually after what I thought is "as fast as possible". The only bad thing was my poor mashing ability in the past, but with your help I could finally compete for real.

If you watch my videos through YouTube, I have added skips to certain parts of the video (bosses/towns) to get rid of boring dialogue. They are frequent so it should be a nice experience to browse through the videos. Smiley

Perfect Disc 1 seems to be around 3:17-3:18 (I think). So I would not mind you trying to do a sub 3:20. Also, the difference between 70K and 90K models are small if they both have Driver Version 2.0 for PS1 games. ;----)

I probably will not improve my time in a while. It was a good run RNG-wise, but I think I will wait for someone else to beat it before I try again. I am not sure what to do. I will however improve my Turbo route until then. I just transfered my Turbo notes to a Legit run (with some adaptions like +1 extra attack item here and there).

Oh, but I find no difference in Smooth/Normal. I played without Smooth settings. I would advise you to get one 90K model instead. ;---)

I have read through your notes breifly at some point but I find mostly outdated strategies. I don't know if the guide is up-to-date, but I have been working on my route individually after what I thought is "as fast as possible". The only bad thing was my poor mashing ability in the past, but with your help I could finally compete for real.

If you watch my videos through YouTube, I have added skips to certain parts of the video (bosses/towns) to get rid of boring dialogue. They are frequent so it should be a nice experience to browse through the videos. :) Perfect Disc 1 seems to be around 3:17-3:18 (I think). So I would not mind you trying to do a sub 3:20. Also, the difference between 70K and 90K models are small if they both have Driver Version 2.0 for PS1 games. ;----)

The2012Robot

2014-11-15 07:26:26 pm

I run for fun :)

I'm still a bit worried about my PS2 being slightly slower. I'll just have to compare our load times to be sure. And remember, not all things that appear outdated, actually are. I didn't get a 3:20 on disc 1 from RNG alone... all in all, I really don't want to have to be the only one actually testing and checking everything. Maybe that's not 100% true, but it sure feels like it sometimes.

Deathtome

Edit history:

Deathtome: 2014-11-15 07:46:09 pm

2014-11-15 07:45:13 pm

Yeah, I guess. You, me and Jimmy all use different strategies. I like to magic spam much like Carnage64 did. Smiley

I am sure we all are working on our own with the testing and routing. My route was done this summer basically, and then I just refined it this month. The most important thing is the shopping.

For instance, I don't use Albert until Disc 3 since I use Meru/Rose with their magic spam to save time in Disc 2. This makes my Albert a risk factor against Grand Jewel, but with few Spectral Flashes the battle should still be okay. I think you guys do Disc 2 slower, but building up your 3rd character (Albert/Haschel) so they are stronger in Disc 3/4 in comparison to my route.

This game offers endless of possibilities. I actually like that the routes are so different. Keeps it more interesting than if everyone used the same. I have been working hard on my route for a long time, so I didn't just copy someone else right off the bat. Sure, sometimes I find smart things you and Jimmy do that makes a small change in my route, but that's just how it is. Smiley

You are absolutely not the only one doing tests. It is also easier to see if something is faster if it is displayed in a run/test run. On paper it's hard to examine new strategies or think if they are faster or slower. Smiley

Your Disc 1 is really good, I cannot say more for the rest since I have no video evidence of them. I would love to see you run with your strategies in all of the discs.

Yeah, I guess. You, me and Jimmy all use different strategies. I like to magic spam much like Carnage64 did. :) I am sure we all are working on our own with the testing and routing. My route was done this summer basically, and then I just refined it this month. The most important thing is the shopping.

For instance, I don't use Albert until Disc 3 since I use Meru/Rose with their magic spam to save time in Disc 2. This makes my Albert a risk factor against Grand Jewel, but with few Spectral Flashes the battle should still be okay. I think you guys do Disc 2 slower, but building up your 3rd character (Albert/Haschel) so they are stronger in Disc 3/4 in comparison to my route.

This game offers endless of possibilities. I actually like that the routes are so different. Keeps it more interesting than if everyone used the same. I have been working hard on my route for a long time, so I didn't just copy someone else right off the bat. Sure, sometimes I find smart things you and Jimmy do that makes a small change in my route, but that's just how it is. :) You are absolutely not the only one doing tests. It is also easier to see if something is faster if it is displayed in a run/test run. On paper it's hard to examine new strategies or think if they are faster or slower. :) Your Disc 1 is really good, I cannot say more for the rest since I have no video evidence of them. I would love to see you run with your strategies in all of the discs.

The2012Robot

2014-11-15 07:52:38 pm

I run for fun :)

I don't mean for you to figure out everything that might be slower or faster on your own. I meant for you to just point out differences so we can discuss what might be fastest--some things might not need video proof because of their simplicity. But you are right about video evidence.

Fly

2014-11-16 05:26:56 am

Speedy Rodriguez

Quote from The2012Robot:

And here's my tutorial:

Nice tutorial. I had the time to give this a few tries. I also didn't get over 260%. In fact I only got 260% once. Got 254-258 a few times. Not sure if I was failing to hit the buttons accurately or not. I have big hands and the analog stick gets in the way for me. Also, I've only done this on and old NES controller before today. 260% seemed low to me since I got 244% with my index finger a few times as well. The above method in the video has the potential to hit the button twice as much. The game must have a limit to how fast it registers the presses that is lower than Track and Field style games. Those typically can register 30 per second.

Just for kicks I did a thumb mash and got 206%

Hec

JimmyJamma15

Edit history:

JimmyJamma15: 2014-11-16 01:30:22 pm

2014-11-16 10:48:55 am

In other news, I am currently routing all bosses% for this game. I will definitely come back to any% sometime soon but I am having a lot of fun routing for all bosses% so I will continue with that. Faust is totally a push over by the way!! :p

Streaming the routing now!

twitch.tv/JimmyJamma15

The2012Robot

2014-11-16 06:00:44 pm

I run for fun :)

Yeah, I've hit 260% 3 times total now. You could be right about there being a limit, but at this point, I can almost always tell what I'm doing wrong when I hit a bad percent. Doesn't take much practice to become consistent though Smiley

JimmyJamma15

2014-11-17 04:52:30 pm

Hey everyone! I am streaming all bosses% routing right now. I have my notes up on screen and intend on posting them on a google doc for others to have access to. It has certainly been a lot of fun so far so feel free to tune in! Cheesy

Fathlo23

2014-11-20 12:25:49 am

[quote="The2012Robot"]
I wasn't able to vibrate back and forth and still hit the button accurately, so I had to improvise. Thankfully, this method is still quite better than the old one, and essentially makes anyone's methods of using lighters or pens on there controllers obsolete because of how easy this is to pick up, which is obviously a fantastic thing because there shouldn't be any more debate about whether using lighters or pens is "legit" or not--there's no point anymore Cheesy

...unless of course there's someone out there that can hit above 260% consistently with a tool o_O

I use a tool to mash in this game not because its faster than hands, but because I bite my nails. I've known about this sliding mashing method for years, and I use it but in this game where you have to mash for hours I literally get blisters on my fingers by the end of disc 1 lol. So I will continue to mash with my lighter Smiley

Fathlo23

2014-11-20 12:32:01 am

Yay for failing to quote properly...

The2012Robot

2014-11-20 12:20:07 pm

I run for fun :)

Ya know you could just edit your post and fix the quote Tongue

Unfortunately, I too have the bad habit of biting my nails. You shouldn't get blisters if you're just using your nails and not hitting the button with your skin. But I could be wrong.

Deathtome

Edit history:

Deathtome: 2014-11-20 03:37:48 pm

2014-11-20 03:36:17 pm

Quote from The2012Robot:

Ya know you could just edit your post and fix the quote Tongue

Unfortunately, I too have the bad habit of biting my nails. You shouldn't get blisters if you're just using your nails and not hitting the button with your skin. But I could be wrong.

Yeah, I guess I am the only one who have done a full run with the new mash technique. My arm hurt for about 2 days, but my fingers were quite alright. A bit sore, but nothing major. No blisterings or anything really painful. I used my nails.

I have been working on a Dart/Rose/Meru strategy for the final boss. If Rose is not too weak with the Dragon Buster, I will be VERY happy! It would save me so much time throughout the whole run! She is actually a fighter with the Dragon Buster, Phoenix Plume, DG Armor, Dancer's Shoes and Giganto Ring. She won't be attacking much until Melbu Frahma. Smiley

Tomorrow I will know if it works or not. I have improved Disc 1-3 now (given that Rose strategy will work). What I mean by working is getting a sub 40 minute Melbu fight (yeah, my Melbu fights are slow in general without a high level Haschel). If it's too slow, I will have to re-use my old strategy with Haschel for Disc 3½-4. I give up Albert. He won't work if I skip the Physical Ring, which I am going to do.

I honestly think it will be a better fight than with Albert. Rose have 75 Speed. Meru have Magical Greaves (+10 Speed). I want everyone to know that sub 12 is possible in this game. Smiley

[quote="The2012Robot"]Ya know you could just edit your post and fix the quote :P

Unfortunately, I too have the bad habit of biting my nails. You shouldn't get blisters if you're just using your nails and not hitting the button with your skin. But I could be wrong.[/quote]

Yeah, I guess I am the only one who have done a full run with the new mash technique. My arm hurt for about 2 days, but my fingers were quite alright. A bit sore, but nothing major. No blisterings or anything really painful. I used my nails.

I have been working on a Dart/Rose/Meru strategy for the final boss. If Rose is not too weak with the Dragon Buster, I will be VERY happy! It would save me so much time throughout the whole run! She is actually a fighter with the Dragon Buster, Phoenix Plume, DG Armor, Dancer's Shoes and Giganto Ring. She won't be attacking much until Melbu Frahma. :) Tomorrow I will know if it works or not. I have improved Disc 1-3 now (given that Rose strategy will work). What I mean by working is getting a sub 40 minute Melbu fight (yeah, my Melbu fights are slow in general without a high level Haschel). If it's too slow, I will have to re-use my old strategy with Haschel for Disc 3½-4. I give up Albert. He won't work if I skip the Physical Ring, which I am going to do.

I honestly think it will be a better fight than with Albert. Rose have 75 Speed. Meru have Magical Greaves (+10 Speed). I want everyone to know that sub 12 is possible in this game. :)

The2012Robot

2014-11-22 06:52:55 pm

I run for fun :)

As with anything involving speed running for me at this point, I'll believe it when I see it. Even if using Rose is an improvement (I'm not saying I think it will be or not--too much estimating to do in my head), I don't see how sub 12 is possible without really good RNG throughout the entire run. So yeah, my guess is that it's possible, but it might be asking a bit much to ever see a sub 12 without FMV skips or something big that we haven't discovered yet.

Deathtome

Edit history:

Deathtome: 2015-01-28 07:49:20 am

Deathtome: 2014-12-14 01:39:16 am

Deathtome: 2014-11-26 03:21:03 pm

2014-11-23 07:08:31 am

The Legend of Dragoon Single-Segment 12:12:52

Part 1:

Part 2:

For those of you who are wondering what the highest possible mash % is; it is 268%. There is no way to achieve a higher % since it's the maximum. Also, during the mash it is more about having a constant motion mash on the button than being fast. For instance, if I mash super-fast and then mess up where I miss the X button for 1 second, I cannot achieve a 268% mash. Meaning that even if you mash slow but with consistency you will get a high mash % each time. I don't say it's easy, but with practice it will get easier. The highest legit one I've gotten is 266% a few times. In short, it doesn't register every button press you do.

JimmyJamma15

Edit history:

JimmyJamma15: 2015-08-23 07:14:17 am

JimmyJamma15: 2015-08-23 07:14:15 am

2015-08-22 03:28:10 pm

Hello everyone!!!

In a few hours I will be streaming attempts at getting a sub 12 hr run! My twitch channel is twitch.tv/JimmyJamma15

LETS GO!

EDIT: Had a solid run going. Was 100% going to sub 12 hr and get WR until the game soft locked in the middle of phase 1 of Melbu. Had a almost perfect phase 1 going at the time as well. That Melbu fight was well on its way to being a sub 30 minute fight.

Deathtome

Edit history:

Deathtome: 2016-01-30 06:51:20 am

2015-08-24 11:32:47 am

I have been testing out some speed differences between the 90001 PS2 vs Model PS2. It saves approximately 1 second per minute of gameplay. Which adds up to about 12 minutes over the course of the game.

If you want to speedrun this game you should get any of these models: 75001 PS2 or a 77001 PS2.

Just do not try running this game with a 79001 or a 90001 PS2. It will not work with Fast Disc Speed as well as the other previous models.

I am still not sure about 70001 PS2. I guess they are also compatible with Fast Disc Speed like the 75 001 and 77 001, but might be slower.

ishinoe

Edit history:

ishinoe: 2015-11-17 09:29:07 pm

2015-11-17 09:20:21 pm

I was wondering if people are still speeding running this game? Cause I was wondering what tricks do I need to learn to run this game.

Lavitz

2015-11-19 03:13:05 pm

I'm wondering the same, I love this game and want to speedrun it but since is a 12 hours run it is a little overwhelming. Undecided

L33tLogan

2015-11-22 10:45:23 pm

Reminder we in this!

I really want to try and run this game. It amazes me how differently other people do the button mashing techniques. I actually use two fingers by alternating between my index and middle finger as fast as I can, I bust out at about 262% I really need to start streaming this more!