Legend of Dragoon (Speed Run)

dster

Edit history:

dster: 2014-01-17 01:53:38 pm

dster: 2014-01-17 01:53:01 pm

2014-01-17 01:51:37 pm

Yea I totally understand that, but for me this rule seems just kinda stupid.

Consindering New Game+ runs on let's say Resident Evil 4, Metal Gear Rising etc. all "load" the old save files from the previous runs to keep the good items.
I mean sure, after that the game starts from the beginning, but if I look at it after reading the rules, it sounds to me like those games also need to add up the previous time cause they carry over stuff from an already played save file they needed to build up first.
Yet those runs were treated otherwhise (if I'm not mistaken). Which also brings me to the FF-X new game+ run, which also uses another save file to carry over the al beth lexikons. I don't wanna ruin any of those already existing runs by posting this up here, but there either needs to be a fix in this weird "carry over rule" or most of the new game+ runs need to be judged again.

Omnigamer

2014-01-17 02:07:19 pm

All the things

There's nothing wrong with NG+ runs in general and they don't need to be re-timed. I'm trying to say that this type of exploit is not NG+: it is a wrong load. It's the same as if you pressed continue on the main menu but had the game warp you to the start of the game while still leaving the already completed triggers in place.

dster

2014-01-17 03:49:04 pm

Well I don't see it as a wrong load, but I agree that it's different than a new game+ in some way.
Still think it's legit since the only things that get transferred are items and D-Spirits.
Would be something diff at least imo if you would keep your normal levels too, or could skip every trigger and one hit everything.
But I'm not the one to decide that, if that really counts as wrong load then so be it, still to bad though.

Raelcun

2014-01-17 10:34:47 pm

We require more minerals

Either way it's a different category. If someone wanted to run this category, why would we apply a rule to it that would make running it irrelevant? If someone were to run this category then it wouldn't be competing with the normal one. It's actually a save corruption issue not forcing the game to load the wrong save, because you're saving over a file with another one and then resetting the console before it can finish rewriting everything.

The save corruption run would consist of watching the intro cutscene, running up to the first savepoint after the first forced guard fight, saving over the old file, and then resetting the console on the correct frame to carry over your levels, items, key items, dragoon spirits etc. If done on the correct frame, you carry over all of that but keep playing the game from where you saved from. You're not immediately skipping any content with the ability to use the save corruption, but it allows for skipping content later.

By the way that the game handles a lot of triggers, it allows you to skip some things because they were lazy with it and a lot of the triggers are based on key items. You'd be able to trivialize all of the bosses, but also skip a lot of content because the presence of key items just lets you skip large portions of the game because it sees that you have a certain key item in your inventory and assumes you're further along the progression than you are. With the rather lazy world map coding, that means you can just walk right by certain areas and advance further on until the next check for a key item.

This category would have very little room for optimization and would most likely just be for fun, anyway. Because of the fact that one really well routed run would have almost no room for improvement it's not really the best for submitting to SDA anyway, but if people actually wanted to compete over it, then I don't think they should be forced to keep the timing from the previous file. The setup for it is very much like a NG+ run. You'd max out your levels and additions to one hit as many bosses as possible, but due to the glitch you can skip a bunch of content. You could even do this multiple times to have four Psyche Bomb X's in your inventory to kill the final boss in 5 turns. This would literally come down to someone spending several more setup hours to save a few seconds here and there.

Either way it's a different category. If someone wanted to run this category, why would we apply a rule to it that would make running it irrelevant? If someone were to run this category then it wouldn't be competing with the normal one. It's actually a save corruption issue not forcing the game to load the wrong save, because you're saving over a file with another one and then resetting the console before it can finish rewriting everything.

The save corruption run would consist of watching the intro cutscene, running up to the first savepoint after the first forced guard fight, saving over the old file, and then resetting the console on the correct frame to carry over your levels, items, key items, dragoon spirits etc. If done on the correct frame, you carry over all of that but keep playing the game from where you saved from. You're not immediately skipping any content with the ability to use the save corruption, but it allows for skipping content later.

By the way that the game handles a lot of triggers, it allows you to skip some things because they were lazy with it and a lot of the triggers are based on key items. You'd be able to trivialize all of the bosses, but also skip a lot of content because the presence of key items just lets you skip large portions of the game because it sees that you have a certain key item in your inventory and assumes you're further along the progression than you are. With the rather lazy world map coding, that means you can just walk right by certain areas and advance further on until the next check for a key item.

This category would have very little room for optimization and would most likely just be for fun, anyway. Because of the fact that one really well routed run would have almost no room for improvement it's not really the best for submitting to SDA anyway, but if people actually wanted to compete over it, then I don't think they should be forced to keep the timing from the previous file. The setup for it is very much like a NG+ run. You'd max out your levels and additions to one hit as many bosses as possible, but due to the glitch you can skip a bunch of content. You could even do this multiple times to have four Psyche Bomb X's in your inventory to kill the final boss in 5 turns. This would literally come down to someone spending several more setup hours to save a few seconds here and there.

dster

2014-01-22 08:14:49 pm

So I did a couple of "normal" Testruns the last days and I think I found a few interesting things. Not really Timesavers, but I wanna let you know either way.

So the first thing I discovered is, that the Ps2 Version with Discspeed set to fast is definitely faster than the Ps3 Version. It doesn't really make any sense considering
that the Ps3 should be faster because the whole game is on the Hard Drive but Ps2 is faster. Though I can't say how much faster it is, cause I haven't timed it.

Second thing I found out, maybe you know this already I don't know, Boss Enemys don't have a 100% Dropchance. I discovered that on one run, where Bandit Keith didn't drop the Bandit Ring
after the Battle. I don't know if that might have been a bug or if that really was the Dropchance, but I think it's important to know if your doing a SS Run.

The2012Robot

2014-01-23 03:50:14 pm

I run for fun :)

lol @ Bandit Keith. When I first started running this game, I went to GameFAQs and saved the ones I thought were most reputable and useful to my desktop. Not all of the information on the guides are true, ESPECIALLY when it comes to boss HP, but they're still very useful to have hotkey'd. Here's your item drop %: http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197765-the-legend-of-dragoon/faqs/55793

The idea of having 4 PBXs sounds amazing... I'm very tempted to make such a file Tongue

P.S. You can find reliable boss HP stats in my route/guide online.

Raelcun

2014-01-25 01:50:45 pm

We require more minerals

None of those are new, and PS2 with FDS is almost always faster than PS3

The2012Robot

2014-01-25 09:22:48 pm

I run for fun :)

They may be old (although one was updated back in August, maybe just for the sake of HTML), but they're still mostly accurate. The ones I use:

FAQ/Walkthrough - Shotgunnova: http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197765-the-legend-of-dragoon/faqs/49555
Monster FAQ - Pika: http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197765-the-legend-of-dragoon/faqs/55793

Only real issue I have with them are the HP counts.

Deathtome

Edit history:

Deathtome: 2014-11-20 03:42:48 pm

2014-07-28 01:17:01 am

I want to believe the Legend of Dragoon RTA run from Raelcun (13:03:59) is legit, but after running the game for 3 months with turbo I can spot users who use a Turbo Controller quite easy.

Raelcun, you are also welcome to share the truth. It is just no way that it was done without a turbo controller.

I only want to know the truth... nothing else!

Raelcun

Edit history:

Raelcun: 2014-07-28 04:21:26 pm

Raelcun: 2014-07-28 04:20:13 pm

2014-07-28 04:20:00 pm

We require more minerals

You're an idiot. I'll make you a video if honestly think I'm cheating that much.

I approached you wanting only for you to label if you were using turbo or not. That's it. Then you spent the next several days in a row bashing me on your stream and accusing me of cheating.

I will be the bigger man and apologize if my initial words came off too aggressive, but I've dealt with several people trying to cheat and use turbo in this game already, so it's a point of annoyance for me. So, I'm sorry if my initial contact was less than tactful and I made it sound as I was accusing you. That doesn't justify any of the bashing you've done, and when I make you a video, I'd like you to apologize for the incessant and constant insulting you've done.

Basically, I mash different than you, but you won't accept that so I'll make you a video. You could have done what I told you to do and ask members of the community. They can all vouch for me, because nothing in here is proof of turbo. You included 10-15 clips of me hitting 226-228 and conveniently left out all of the times that I didn't?

This is so unbelievably stupid that you're making me do a proof video, but if that's what you want, I'll do one.

You're an idiot. I'll make you a video if honestly think I'm cheating that much.

I approached you wanting only for you to label if you were using turbo or not. That's it. Then you spent the next several days in a row bashing me on your stream and accusing me of cheating.

I will be the bigger man and apologize if my initial words came off too aggressive, but I've dealt with several people trying to cheat and use turbo in this game already, so it's a point of annoyance for me. So, I'm sorry if my initial contact was less than tactful and I made it sound as I was accusing you. That doesn't justify any of the bashing you've done, and when I make you a video, I'd like you to apologize for the incessant and constant insulting you've done.

Basically, I mash different than you, but you won't accept that so I'll make you a video. You could have done what I told you to do and ask members of the community. They can all vouch for me, because nothing in here is proof of turbo. You included 10-15 clips of me hitting 226-228 and conveniently left out all of the times that I didn't?

This is so unbelievably stupid that you're making me do a proof video, but if that's what you want, I'll do one.

Luzbelheim

Edit history:

Luzbelheim: 2014-07-28 07:25:34 pm

2014-07-28 05:47:49 pm

Okay? Okay!

"You're an idiot." Nice argument mate.
The video shows how you hold the X button while you are buying items or talking with the NPC's at full speed while you are looking the chat.
Also you hold the X button while boosting, looking the chat and talking like nothing is happening, without effort in your voice or movement in your arm.

That you used turbo is an evidence mate, and I can tell you that Deathtome didn't say nothing about your run until you had to come and bash him with bad manners because he was practicing with turbo (a thing that all the chat knew).

By the way you have to remember that in this site if you want to submit a run there are people that check your run to make sure that is all legit, so you shouldn't be that angry about this since we are free to question a dubious WR run where the runner seems to use turbo.

A video where you hit the 226% legit isn't a proof video. A nice proof video would be do at least a half run of LoD showing your controller and hands and having the same time as your previous run.

By the way, the trigger of this wasn't the turbo, but the fact of you being annoying and complaining about, ironically, the turbo of Deathtome.

Apart from this, I want to clarify that when in my youtube comment I say that you are bad at this game it's to challenge you to run this game again and make you stop complaining, because I was tired of that.
Despite that, I have nothing against you as a person and I think I have had respect for you in my arguments, a thing that I can't say for those who defend you, whom use the words "dumb" or "idiot" constantly.

Nothing more to say, just don't worry mate, I'm gonna do a better time soon ;-----)

"You're an idiot." Nice argument mate.
The video shows how you hold the X button while you are buying items or talking with the NPC's at full speed while you are looking the chat.
Also you hold the X button while boosting, looking the chat and talking like nothing is happening, without effort in your voice or movement in your arm.

That you used turbo is an evidence mate, and I can tell you that Deathtome didn't say nothing about your run until you had to come and bash him with bad manners because he was practicing with turbo (a thing that all the chat knew).

By the way you have to remember that in this site if you want to submit a run there are people that check your run to make sure that is all legit, so you shouldn't be that angry about this since we are free to question a dubious WR run where the runner seems to use turbo.

A video where you hit the 226% legit isn't a proof video. A nice proof video would be do at least a half run of LoD showing your controller and hands and having the same time as your previous run.

By the way, the trigger of this wasn't the turbo, but the fact of you being annoying and complaining about, ironically, the turbo of Deathtome.

Apart from this, I want to clarify that when in my youtube comment I say that you are bad at this game it's to challenge you to run this game again and make you stop complaining, because I was tired of that.
Despite that, I have nothing against you as a person and I think I have had respect for you in my arguments, a thing that I can't say for those who defend you, whom use the words "dumb" or "idiot" constantly.

Nothing more to say, just don't worry mate, I'm gonna do a better time soon ;-----)

Raelcun

2014-07-28 05:54:10 pm

We require more minerals

Yes because neither of you are aware of a game mechanic that makes text advancing 300% easier than normal. If you two had approached me like civilized human beings I would have been willing to help you both improve your route. Deathome claims his turbo route is highly optimized, but there are still several things he can do to easily save time.

My run is easy to beat if you play well with a good route. If you use Deathtome's route you won't beat it. If you want to beat my time, I would be happy to work with you, but only if you two offer me legitimate apologies after I make you a video showing you how I mash.

I'm done talking to you two for now. I can't tell you by when I'll have the mashing video done because I am, currently, waiting on test results to find out if my kidneys are failing. I'm dealing with a lot of bullshit right now and am not in the mood to deal with you two clowns right now. Rest assured, when I make the video, Deathtome will no longer be able to claim he has the record.

The SS vs RTA argument doesn't matter because RTA only matters if it's done to save time. By SDA standards my run was SS with resets because I reset the console to avoid a crash. So even if he falls back to that argument, it won't really matter, his run is slower than mine because his route is optimized and he's bad at advancing text.

Yes because neither of you are aware of a game mechanic that makes text advancing 300% easier than normal. If you two had approached me like civilized human beings I would have been willing to help you both improve your route. Deathome claims his turbo route is highly optimized, but there are still several things he can do to easily save time.

My run is easy to beat if you play well with a good route. If you use Deathtome's route you won't beat it. If you want to beat my time, I would be happy to work with you, but only if you two offer me legitimate apologies after I make you a video showing you how I mash.

I'm done talking to you two for now. I can't tell you by when I'll have the mashing video done because I am, currently, waiting on test results to find out if my kidneys are failing. I'm dealing with a lot of bullshit right now and am not in the mood to deal with you two clowns right now. Rest assured, when I make the video, Deathtome will no longer be able to claim he has the record.

The SS vs RTA argument doesn't matter because RTA only matters if it's done to save time. By SDA standards my run was SS with resets because I reset the console to avoid a crash. So even if he falls back to that argument, it won't really matter, his run is slower than mine because his route is optimized and he's bad at advancing text.

CaneCraft

2014-07-28 05:55:47 pm

Wells have eye sockets

Really?

Deathtome, your run is awful. Instead of working on legitimizing your own run and practicing your own mashing, you throw completely unfounded accusations about cheating at other speedrunners to make yourself feel better about it? When a quick look through Raelcun's archives gives you VODs where you can clearly hear him mashing?

This is really shitty of you, and will basically force a legitimate speedrunner to defend himself by posting some mashing video just to prove that he can do it. Absolutely unacceptable.

Luzbelheim

2014-07-28 06:20:26 pm

Okay? Okay!

"If you two had approached me like civilized human beings I would have been willing to help you both improve your route."
- You were the first to not obey this rule, bashing Deathtome for using turbo for practice.

"I'm dealing with a lot of bullshit right now and am not in the mood to deal with you two clowns right now."
- Talking about civilized human beings, nice argument mate.
You are not the only human being in this world dealing with problems, so that's not an excuse to not have respect.

"The SS vs RTA argument doesn't matter because RTA only matters if it's done to save time."
- RTA SS: Single Segment. Only One Segment. Since you save and load the game, it isn't one segment only, so your run is RTA. Easy to understand mate.
Deathtome did a SS run without save and load, so it's not impossible to do a SS run mate.

By the way, even if you have the best strats in this whole planet for this game, do you think I would like to work with you when you are showing this attitude and this lack of respect?. Never mate, never.

CaneCraft: You should say that to all of who check runs of other runners to see if they are legit or not.
In a speedrun you have to show transparency in your run, and I think Raelcun hasn't been transparent, so that's why we want some proofs, that's all.
We are talking about the WR run, so I think it's necessary to clarify that run and be transparent with it, but yes mate, tell him his run is awful and he is dumb, we all know your arguments :D.

"If you two had approached me like civilized human beings I would have been willing to help you both improve your route."
- You were the first to not obey this rule, bashing Deathtome for using turbo for practice.

"I'm dealing with a lot of bullshit right now and am not in the mood to deal with you two clowns right now."
- Talking about civilized human beings, nice argument mate.
You are not the only human being in this world dealing with problems, so that's not an excuse to not have respect.

"The SS vs RTA argument doesn't matter because RTA only matters if it's done to save time."
- RTA SS: Single Segment. Only One Segment. Since you save and load the game, it isn't one segment only, so your run is RTA. Easy to understand mate.
Deathtome did a SS run without save and load, so it's not impossible to do a SS run mate.

By the way, even if you have the best strats in this whole planet for this game, do you think I would like to work with you when you are showing this attitude and this lack of respect?. Never mate, never.

CaneCraft: You should say that to all of who check runs of other runners to see if they are legit or not.
In a speedrun you have to show transparency in your run, and I think Raelcun hasn't been transparent, so that's why we want some proofs, that's all.
We are talking about the WR run, so I think it's necessary to clarify that run and be transparent with it, but yes mate, tell him his run is awful and he is dumb, we all know your arguments :D.

rudyxx

2014-07-28 06:46:32 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Raelcun has been speedrunning for years, and has nothing he needs to prove to anyone. The fact that this is being argued just shows your lack of knowledge about the speedrunning community. And anyone that cares so much about a WR that they would go out of their way to bash a well known runner is just awful. If you are going to make stupid comments like this, please keep them to personal messages, because no one that actually wants information on how to run this game wants to read this crap.

CaneCraft

2014-07-28 06:49:49 pm

Wells have eye sockets

No. You have no excuse for behaving like piss poor human beings. People are not guilty until proven innocent, and I detest the fact that you are willing to slander a noted speedrunner to defend your e-peen. There were a million ways you could have handled this if "adding transparency" was your goal, and you just chose the one that is going to make you look like villains. It's bullshit and it is not defensible.

Raelcun will make a mashing video even though nobody else in the entire world thinks he needs to, and you will simply shrug it off and not apologize because "it seemed fishy and we had good grounds to make a video to smear someone's reputation". Raelcun has been speedrunning for ages and there is actual footage of him mashing, but you were too busy shitting on him to notice. Get lost.

RamblingJosh

2014-07-28 06:57:34 pm

Many words! Handle it!

To be fair, just because Raelcun is well respected does not mean that he is above scrutiny. I admit that looking at the video posted, Raelcun does not look like someone who is mashing with the speed the game footage would suggest. Apparently there are good explanations for this, which Raelcun has offered to provide, but I think it's safe to assume that real life concerns are going to take top priority.

The argument should end there.

puwexil

2014-07-28 07:00:32 pm

Professional Second Banana

OK folks, let's cool it down.

Raelcun

2014-07-28 07:04:37 pm

We require more minerals

Quote from RamblingJosh:

To be fair, just because Raelcun is well respected does not mean that he is above scrutiny. I admit that looking at the video posted, Raelcun does not look like someone who is mashing with the speed the game footage would suggest. Apparently there are good explanations for this, which Raelcun has offered to provide, but I think it's safe to assume that real life concerns are going to take top priority.

The argument should end there.

Mashing is a skill. It gets better with practice. What is not pictured in that video are the three months of practice leading up to that run. I worked with Rimimt and a few others to route and practice that game off and on for a long time. Near the beginning I was much worse at mashing, by the time I got to the run I was better.

Mashing is a muscle movement, as you develop that muscle group, you get better at it. It's that simple, but beyond that, the best mashers move their arms in very imperceptible ways. It's all about twitch muscle movement and repeating a motion as fast as you can. If you are moving your arms noticeably you're wasting energy.

I'll explain all of this better in my video, but yes, it will probably be a short while before it is done.

[quote="RamblingJosh"]To be fair, just because Raelcun is well respected does not mean that he is above scrutiny. I admit that looking at the video posted, Raelcun does not look like someone who is mashing with the speed the game footage would suggest. Apparently there are good explanations for this, which Raelcun has offered to provide, but I think it's safe to assume that real life concerns are going to take top priority.

The argument should end there.[/quote]
Mashing is a skill. It gets better with practice. What is not pictured in that video are the three months of practice leading up to that run. I worked with Rimimt and a few others to route and practice that game off and on for a long time. Near the beginning I was much worse at mashing, by the time I got to the run I was better.

Mashing is a muscle movement, as you develop that muscle group, you get better at it. It's that simple, but beyond that, the best mashers move their arms in very imperceptible ways. It's all about twitch muscle movement and repeating a motion as fast as you can. If you are moving your arms noticeably you're wasting energy.

I'll explain all of this better in my video, but yes, it will probably be a short while before it is done.

Luzbelheim

2014-07-28 07:14:07 pm

Okay? Okay!

As I expected, you are showing your true side.
Rudyxx, sorry but the only stupid comment here is yours when you say that an old runner has more rights than a new runner just because he started speedrun games years ago.
So in three years if I do a WR of FF9 using turbo nobody will can discuss it, because I would be and older runner and I will have blind friends who will defend me. I understand it now.
Please mate, write something with common sense ;).

CaneCraft, "piss poor human beings", "e-peen", "it's bullshit, it's not defensible".
Yeah mate, we can see who want to defend his "e-peen" here with good arguments.

"Raelcun will make a mashing video even though nobody else in the entire world thinks he needs to".
Sorry mate, but me, Deathtome and other people think that he uses turbo. But yes, we are "nobody", because we are not as cool as you and your friends.
Nice dictatorship mate, but you can do it better.

I only defend the free opinion and the questioning of a WR run, regardless of the runner and his status.
By the way, I repeat that a mashing video isn't a proof since a lot of people can reach 228% and more, so that doesn't reveals anything.

As I expected, you are showing your true side.
Rudyxx, sorry but the only stupid comment here is yours when you say that an old runner has more rights than a new runner just because he started speedrun games years ago.
So in three years if I do a WR of FF9 using turbo nobody will can discuss it, because I would be and older runner and I will have blind friends who will defend me. I understand it now.
Please mate, write something with common sense ;).

CaneCraft, "piss poor human beings", "e-peen", "it's bullshit, it's not defensible".
Yeah mate, we can see who want to defend his "e-peen" here with good arguments.

"Raelcun will make a mashing video even though nobody else in the entire world thinks he needs to".
Sorry mate, but me, Deathtome and other people think that he uses turbo. But yes, we are "nobody", because we are not as cool as you and your friends.
Nice dictatorship mate, but you can do it better.

I only defend the free opinion and the questioning of a WR run, regardless of the runner and his status.
By the way, I repeat that a mashing video isn't a proof since a lot of people can reach 228% and more, so that doesn't reveals anything.

Raelcun

2014-07-28 07:26:05 pm

We require more minerals

Why are you still arguing?

I will give you the proof that you asked for. You don't get to ask me to prove myself and then tell me ahead of time that it won't be good enough.

Vulajin

Edit history:

Vulajin: 2014-07-28 07:29:49 pm

2014-07-28 07:29:05 pm

Quote from Luzbelheim:

a mashing video isn't a proof since a lot of people can reach 228% and more

If a lot of people can reach 228% and more, I don't see how Raelcun's prowess at achieving this in the run is considered to be an outlier deserving of suspicion. How many times does he cast spells which have this mechanic? How many times does he successfully achieve what you consider an outlier (i.e. 228% or higher)? How many button presses per second are required to achieve a 228%?

In previous cases of turbo accusations that I am aware of, a mashing video is considered proof, because what is being questioned is the runner's ability to achieve the observed mashing level. Just because you are making an accusation does not permit you to make arbitrary unreasonable demands of the runner. It is not at all reasonable to demand that a runner repeat half of a 13-hour speedrun just because you believe he used turbo.

Also, it would be great if everyone on both sides could cease the name-calling and profanity. It doesn't help at all.

[quote=Luzbelheim]a mashing video isn't a proof since a lot of people can reach 228% and more[/quote]

If a lot of people can reach 228% and more, I don't see how Raelcun's prowess at achieving this in the run is considered to be an outlier deserving of suspicion. How many times does he cast spells which have this mechanic? How many times does he successfully achieve what you consider an outlier (i.e. 228% or higher)? How many button presses per second are required to achieve a 228%?

In previous cases of turbo accusations that I am aware of, a mashing video [i]is[/i] considered proof, because what is being questioned is the runner's ability to achieve the observed mashing level. Just because you are making an accusation does not permit you to make arbitrary unreasonable demands of the runner. It is not at all reasonable to demand that a runner repeat half of a 13-hour speedrun just because you [i]believe[/i] he used turbo.

Also, it would be great if everyone on both sides could cease the name-calling and profanity. It doesn't help at all.

Raelcun

2014-07-28 07:36:19 pm

We require more minerals

This thread needs less drama and accusations and more Kongol in a dress.

rudyxx

2014-07-28 07:37:29 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote from Luzbelheim:

As I expected, you are showing your true side.
Rudyxx, sorry but the only stupid comment here is yours when you say that an old runner has more rights than a new runner just because he started speedrun games years ago.
So in three years if I do a WR of FF9 using turbo nobody will can discuss it, because I would be and older runner and I will have blind friends who will defend me. I understand it now.
Please mate, write something with common sense Wink

I think your 15 year old mind completely missed the point of what I said.

Omnigamer

2014-07-28 07:40:14 pm

All the things

Quote from Raelcun:

This thread needs less drama and accusations and more Kongol in a dress.