Legend of Dragoon (Speed Run)

Apjjm

Edit history:

Apjjm: 2009-09-28 04:04:18 pm

2009-09-28 07:44:07 am

What?

Quote:

You could probably try speed running as well. Two is better than one

Nah i'm really terrible with additions - i will try and help you with ideas and strats and stuff i can (but all the tricks i know of i've said). After all, if there is a run i would like to see - it is of this game :). Hope the heap (badum tish) of projects goes well and all too.

Edit: that's nice segment (segment 1)- Some serious forward planning with that burnout :).

Omnicent

Edit history:

Omnicent: 2009-09-28 11:03:54 pm

2009-09-28 03:20:38 pm

Segment One of my new test run is processing at the moment. It's somewhat low quality as fraps would split the file pass 3.9ish BG.
Don't have premiere or AE on my rig (discs are at home). Downloaded some free video editing programs. I'll see how they work when I do segment 2.
Hopefully I'll be able to upload segment 2 in full quality (did not know youtube has a 2gb cap. This makes things much easier for me, assuming lagarith works).

Well have a visual arts class to go to (from 4:30 - 7:15) so it will be a while before I can do segment 2 (not to mention I need to do documentation for my cs261 project tonight. I will get segment 2 up tonight though. It's an easy segment to run).

Uploading Test run Segment 2 at the moment.

If anyone has any tips (besides the slip ups that I wouldn't let pass for a final run. Segment 2's fight is a good example :-[ )
pleas post.

Segment 2 is up. It's 12:03 so I'm about to go to bed. Night

Omnicent

Edit history:

Omnicent: 2012-03-21 02:30:06 pm

Omnicent: 2012-03-21 10:15:06 am

Omnicent: 2012-03-21 09:56:01 am

2012-03-21 09:39:21 am

Ok, so I started working on my test runs for this game again. I stopped last time because I burned myself out.
Hopefully others will join in since this is a pretty fun game to speed run. My current route is fairly different from my old one.
I'll be making posts with the route I'm taking as I run through it.

Anyone is free to use mine or come up with their own (which I like since it gives multiple view points).

Legend of Dragoon: Disc 1 Route

PDF
Legend of Dragoon: Disc 1 Route

I'm updating the document day by day. I have been stuck on the Frugal fight in Hellena Prison first trip since yesterday.
Hopefully I can get past it and make some more updates.

If you have any questions let me know.

jceresa2

2012-03-21 09:58:39 am

One of the better games that I never finished playing. Maybe I will pull my copy off the shelf and try to play through it. Good luck with the run!

TrUShade

2012-03-21 10:15:50 am

The TrUest of Shades

there is a legend of dragoon run happening and i didn't know till now...wtf...

good luck man, i will help you as much as i can

Heidrage

2012-03-21 01:01:09 pm

Willing to teach you the impossible

I support and will be following this

Apjjm

Edit history:

Apjjm: 2012-03-21 03:14:13 pm

Apjjm: 2012-03-21 03:14:09 pm

Apjjm: 2012-03-21 03:14:07 pm

2012-03-21 03:11:29 pm

What?

Really looking forward to see this. Again I can try and help bounce ideas around but you've may have already considered the stuff i come up with ;):

Do you plan on farming 00parts or the treasure jar (if the ruby ring sells for more than 600 gold) at any point? Farming for 1 or 2 legend casques (for the massive m-def and highest m-atk helm) or the phantom sheild (does the 50% damage reduction apply more than once? If so you can probably afford skipping healing items until the moon with 2 of them or a combo of sheild + helm) Would have to work out how much time a battle takes and would probably need to dedicate a good few segments to the farming though, and then see if that time is made up for with the higher damage and fewer healing items required.

If dart is going to be a physical attacker would soul eater be strong enough to warrant taking on the polter armour (you can use the therapy ring to mitigate the health drain)?

Anyway best of luck with this.

Omnicent

Edit history:

Omnicent: 2012-03-21 05:07:47 pm

2012-03-21 05:07:14 pm

Quote from Apjjm:

Really looking forward to see this. Again I can try and help bounce ideas around but you've may have already considered the stuff i come up with ;):

Do you plan on farming 00parts or the treasure jar (if the ruby ring sells for more than 600 gold) at any point? Farming for 1 or 2 legend casques (for the massive m-def and highest m-atk helm) or the phantom sheild (does the 50% damage reduction apply more than once? If so you can probably afford skipping healing items until the moon with 2 of them or a combo of sheild + helm) Would have to work out how much time a battle takes and would probably need to dedicate a good few segments to the farming though, and then see if that time is made up for with the higher damage and fewer healing items required.

If dart is going to be a physical attacker would soul eater be strong enough to warrant taking on the polter armour (you can use the therapy ring to mitigate the health drain)?

Anyway best of luck with this.

The problem with farming special enemies is you really need satchels to make it go quickly. You get 1 left over satchel which I use against a treasure jar for a ruby ring which sell for around 3000G.
You don't need Legend equip as I have already beaten the game in a speed run setting without them. I admit they would make it easier, but that would be only for Albert as the Divine Dragoon Dart and the other character I use
do not have problems. Also I don't use much magic on the final boss. If you could get psych bomb x via a Magic Eco Ball, then it may be worth it, but considering I luck manip 2 Magic Hats which give +50 m-atk the only value of the casque is the magic defense which would only be useful for Albert.

I considered the soul eater, but the problem is there is not enough inventory to do Yeti, Lyod, traverse the entire snow area, traverse the ruined fort, get to poler, kill him, and make it to the end of disc 3. Also I store items for some Disc 4 fights during disc 2 & 3, so it makes it even less viable. Also consider for Disc 4 I get psych bomb x which on a powered up meru does 4k-6k which will either outright kill or reduce to half hp every boss excluding Imago (and only because he has 3 forms). Dart at this point gets 3 maybe 4 turns before Meru nukes with more magic items.

For the final boss fight I use the Fairy Sword for the 50% SP gains and more Divine Dragoon Addition Spam (bandits ring + shoes).

If someone wants they can try it out and we can compare times.

[quote="Apjjm"]Really looking forward to see this. Again I can try and help bounce ideas around but you've may have already considered the stuff i come up with ;):

Do you plan on farming 00parts or the treasure jar (if the ruby ring sells for more than 600 gold) at any point? Farming for 1 or 2 legend casques (for the massive m-def and highest m-atk helm) or the phantom sheild (does the 50% damage reduction apply more than once? If so you can probably afford skipping healing items until the moon with 2 of them or a combo of sheild + helm)  Would have to work out how much time a battle takes and would probably need to dedicate a good few segments to the farming though, and then see if that time is made up for with the higher damage and fewer healing items required.

If dart is going to be a physical attacker would soul eater be strong enough to warrant taking on the polter armour (you can use the therapy ring to mitigate the health drain)?

Anyway best of luck with this.[/quote]

The problem with farming  special enemies is you really need satchels to make it go quickly. You get 1 left over satchel which I use against a treasure jar for a ruby ring which sell for around 3000G.
You don't need Legend equip as I have already beaten the game in a speed run setting without them. I admit they would make it easier, but that would be only for Albert as the Divine Dragoon Dart and the other character I use
do not have problems. Also I don't use much magic on the final boss. If you could get psych bomb x via a Magic Eco Ball, then it may be worth it, but considering I luck manip 2 Magic Hats which give +50 m-atk the only value of the casque is the magic defense which would only be useful for Albert.

I considered the soul eater, but the problem is there is not enough inventory to do Yeti, Lyod, traverse the entire snow area, traverse the ruined fort, get to poler, kill him, and make it to the end of disc 3.  Also I store items for some Disc 4 fights during disc 2 & 3, so it makes it even less viable. Also consider for Disc 4 I get psych bomb x which on a powered up meru does 4k-6k which will either outright kill or reduce to half hp every boss excluding Imago (and only because he has 3 forms). Dart at this point gets 3 maybe 4 turns before Meru nukes with more magic items.

For the final boss fight I use the Fairy Sword for the 50% SP gains and more Divine Dragoon Addition Spam (bandits ring + shoes).

If someone wants they can try it out and we can compare times.

Omnicent

2012-04-09 03:37:51 pm

Finally able to move past the first visit to Helena Prison.
I was trying to get Volcano 20/40 before leaving, but trying to do this while getting a decent time and having Shana become incapacitated was not working.
Maybe it's possible, but I don't have the sanity for it. I need my sanity for both a Bandits ring drop in disc 2 and the Ghost Ship.

Should be able to move through the rest of Disc 1 in the next 2 days. So look for some route updates.

Omnicent

2012-04-11 10:42:39 am

Finished the Limestone Cavern and Urobolus fight. Found out you can kill him before he goes to hide in the cavern walls (at that point only ranged attacks or magic items can reach him).
Also updated my route with this information.

The2012Robot

Edit history:

The2012Robot: 2012-04-29 05:32:18 am

The2012Robot: 2012-04-29 05:31:28 am

The2012Robot: 2012-04-29 05:28:24 am

The2012Robot: 2012-04-29 05:27:41 am

The2012Robot: 2012-04-29 04:50:58 am

The2012Robot: 2012-04-29 04:49:10 am

2012-04-29 03:58:45 am

I run for fun :)

Oh shit!- I didn't see that you were back Omnicent! I planned an entire disc 1 route without any of this information. I sent you a message on youtube (which you should read), but SDA is definitely the better venue for this kind of talk Cheesy

Edit: So I just finished reading the PDF. I see you found 1 of the interesting things you can do with the menu (delay battles). You can also use the menu to do some other interesting things; delay your exit to another screen, and do an absolutely random warp to the beginning of the game. I can find no mention of this glitch online, except vaguely in one Youtuber's comment on this video:

It says, "hahaha funny, did the behind seles glitch work?" I was very interested in this. After playing around in the area described in the description of the video (a certain set of stairs in Bale), I discovered the "behind Seles glitch". For some reason (I don't remember why it dawned on me to try) I tried opening and closing the menu to try and run to the back of what I now call a "warp zone"- the area which sends you to the next screen, as indicated (not always accurately) by a green arrow. And discovered this glitch before I even knew what else you could do with the menu. Seems all the best stuff is found when you're just playing around. Anyways, what ended up happening was that I got behind the green arrow... and the game did nothing. You could run around behind the green arrow! And if you go all the way up the stairs? Something bizarre- you get sent to a point on the map behind and leading into Seles. If you enter Seles, the short scene of Dart overlooking Seles will play where he says "Oh no! My god!" just like in the beginning of the game. Then you get put on that hill that you're supposed to run down to fight the first 2 enemies in the game. But you can't run down because Dart will be stuck in place. Lame. It made me wonder though; could there be somewhere else in the game that warps you to different location? Sadly, after some research I learned that it's not likely.

There is a debug room that is accessible in 2 ways- a corrupted save or a GameShark. The debug room will not function properly through a corrupted save though, and it cannot send you anywhere. Lame. While playing around with a functional debug room using the GameShark, I found that if you leave an area you've entered using the debug room, it sends you to the exact same place as the stair warp does. What's really strange is that no other warp zone I've experimented with has this second warp. And I've only found one other place that lets you get behind a warp zone. Nothing came of it though Sad

Not very helpful, but I figured any TLoD fan might be interested in those findings. Of course, I did useful research as well- planning disc 1 by myself. And it's pretty flawless for the most part. It just needs a speck more optimization. It should be noted that while my planning is built around a single-segment run, the strategies for a segmented run would be nearly identical. The only difference off the top of my head for a segmented run is making sure battles go as fast as possible. Oh, and as you pointed out in your PDF, saving would allow you to use less Charm Potions, and therefore save you time. And lucky drops, of course. Hmm... guess there may be a fair amount of differences.

More on the PDF: For a second I was thinking I knew everything you knew. But then I saw the bit about using Charm Potions in battle. I was like "well, a Charm Potion doesn't really help in the first battle. It would probably be faster just to wail on him". Then I saw the next battle and was like "ooooo CPs might be useful in battles after all"... man, your notes are very thorough. Mine are much more quick and to the point. That's not a downside to your notes though, especially since they were written specifically for a segmented run. It's very Neet. *wink wink*. Yeah, I'm terrible.

Okay... need to sleep.

I have a lot of information to share and discuss with you, Omni. Do you have Skype? If so, add me: Bastian Brandt

Oh shit!- I didn't see that you were back Omnicent! I planned an entire disc 1 route without any of this information. I sent you a message on youtube (which you should read), but SDA is definitely the better venue for this kind of talk :D

Edit: So I just finished reading the PDF. I see you found 1 of the interesting things you can do with the menu (delay battles). You can also use the menu to do some other interesting things; delay your exit to another screen, and do an absolutely random warp to the beginning of the game. I can find no mention of this glitch online, except vaguely in one Youtuber's comment on this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG8_pbE03vs

It says, "hahaha funny, did the behind seles glitch work?" I was very interested in this. After playing around in the area described in the description of the video (a certain set of stairs in Bale), I discovered the "behind Seles glitch". For some reason (I don't remember why it dawned on me to try) I tried opening and closing the menu to try and run to the back of what I now call a "warp zone"- the area which sends you to the next screen, as indicated (not always accurately) by a green arrow. And discovered this glitch before I even knew what else you could do with the menu. Seems all the best stuff is found when you're just playing around. Anyways, what ended up happening was that I got behind the green arrow... and the game did nothing. You could run around behind the green arrow! And if you go all the way up the stairs? Something bizarre- you get sent to a point on the map behind and leading into Seles. If you enter Seles, the short scene of Dart overlooking Seles will play where he says "Oh no! My god!" just like in the beginning of the game. Then you get put on that hill that you're supposed to run down to fight the first 2 enemies in the game. But you can't run down because Dart will be stuck in place. Lame. It made me wonder though; could there be somewhere else in the game that warps you to different location? Sadly, after some research I learned that it's not likely.

There is a debug room that is accessible in 2 ways- a corrupted save or a GameShark. The debug room will not function properly through a corrupted save though, and it cannot send you anywhere. Lame. While playing around with a functional debug room using the GameShark, I found that if you leave an area you've entered using the debug room, it sends you to the exact same place as the stair warp does. What's really strange is that no other warp zone I've experimented with has this second warp. And I've only found one other place that lets you get behind a warp zone. Nothing came of it though :(

Not very helpful, but I figured any TLoD fan might be interested in those findings. Of course, I did useful research as well- planning disc 1 by myself. And it's pretty flawless for the most part. It just needs a speck more optimization. It should be noted that while my planning is built around a single-segment run, the strategies for a segmented run would be nearly identical. The only difference off the top of my head for a segmented run is making sure battles go as fast as possible. Oh, and as you pointed out in your PDF, saving would allow you to use less Charm Potions, and therefore save you time. And lucky drops, of course. Hmm... guess there may be a fair amount of differences.

More on the PDF: For a second I was thinking I knew everything you knew. But then I saw the bit about using Charm Potions in battle. I was like "well, a Charm Potion doesn't really help in the first battle. It would probably be faster just to wail on him". Then I saw the next battle and was like "ooooo CPs might be useful in battles after all"... man, your notes are very thorough. Mine are much more quick and to the point. That's not a downside to your notes though, especially since they were written specifically for a segmented run. It's very Neet. *wink wink*. Yeah, I'm terrible.

Okay... need to sleep.

I have a lot of information to share and discuss with you, Omni. Do you have Skype? If so, add me: Bastian Brandt

The2012Robot

2012-04-30 06:52:41 am

I run for fun :)

Well, I discovered that Charm Potions are not very useful in the battles of a TLoD run- it doesn't work on bosses (although I should have known because it tells you that it only helps with minor enemies. Shows how much I've used them in battle. lol). There are 2 other problems as well- I don't have enough money to spend on extra CPs, and even if I did, it barely saves any time, if any at all because you have to waste turns using the CPs. Sounded like a good idea at first, but oh well :/

Another note about your PDF: it's almost identical to mine (minus the CPs of course). Great minds think alike Wink

Battles are 100% random. Trust me, I tested the battle system thoroughly. Enemies are still programmed to react to certain events though, so you still have some control over the flow of battle.

I am almost done completely optimizing disc 1 and cleaning up my notes. Getting 2:30 is literally impossible, again- trust me. Even getting under 3 hours is impossible. Every single one of my battles go as fast as possible, and if they can be improved, the improvements wouldn't be great enough to get you down to 3 hours. I estimate that a flawless single-segment disc 1 run would come in at around 3:25... at least on emulator. But it seems like the load times are about the same between emulator and console though, so 3:25 is a good estimate.

As soon as I finish disc 1, I'll get straight to work on disc 2. Can't wait to see what the time is like.

Well, I discovered that Charm Potions are not very useful in the battles of a TLoD run- it doesn't work on bosses (although I should have known because it tells you that it only helps with minor enemies. Shows how much I've used them in battle. lol). There are 2 other problems as well- I don't have enough money to spend on extra CPs, and even if I did, it barely saves any time, if any at all because you have to waste turns using the CPs. Sounded like a good idea at first, but oh well :/

Another note about your PDF: it's almost identical to mine (minus the CPs of course). Great minds think alike ;)

Battles are 100% random. Trust me, I tested the battle system thoroughly. Enemies are still programmed to react to certain events though, so you still have some control over the flow of battle.

I am almost done completely optimizing disc 1 and cleaning up my notes. Getting 2:30 is literally impossible, again- trust me. Even getting under 3 hours is impossible. Every single one of my battles go as fast as possible, and if they can be improved, the improvements wouldn't be great enough to get you down to 3 hours.  I estimate that a flawless single-segment disc 1 run would come in at around 3:25... at least on emulator. But it seems like the load times are about the same between emulator and console though, so 3:25 is a good estimate.

As soon as I finish disc 1, I'll get straight to work on disc 2. Can't wait to see what the time is like.

Omnicent

Edit history:

Omnicent: 2012-05-01 02:39:23 pm

2012-05-01 02:36:24 pm

Charm potions are only useful for your first vist to Helena Prison for the forced encounters. After that they are useless for in battle purposes (they don't work on bosses which is why I dont mention using them outside of the fodder fights in Helena).
You use them because it skips enemy attack animations, you take no damage, so you need very little in the way of healing items (which you sell for gold for CP which saves time since its faster to use a CP in the menu than to try and escape).
Only possible exception is the first forced fight in Helena during the first visit (you can attack in a way so he will not counter with a burnout, but then you will miss out on leveling up Volcano. The line between getting Final Burst for the Yeti is very thin... like you will either get it after the divine dragon or not thin. I do use crush dance in disc since Meru can easily cover any slack).

Also, yeah sub 3:25 would be hard ti do. My best before I came up with my current route was sub 3:35. I could probably manage sub 3:30 now though

Have fun with disc 2. It is a very easy disc compared to disc 1 in planning. I have the full game routed, but I'm on my last finalization and it is finals week, so I wont be doing any runs till the end of this week.
Hopefully I can finish up disc 1 next week (disc 1 is mostly done, but there are things you can do to make the other discs easier and that is not fun to test).

I will say the hardest parts in disc 2 will be getting rare drops. The first is the x2 bandits x1 gangster fight in Home of The Gigantos. You can supposedly get a bandits ring from the gangster which you would use on Albert, but the drop rate must be microscopic.

Next is the ghost ship. There are 4 magical boogies and you want 2 magical hats and not such a good drop rate (not to mention that place is a nightmare to navigate when doing a speedrun. You get the drops and then you run into a blue flame. I have had this happen and I about flipped). One thing you would want to check out (I plan to do this when I get there) is the password game on the ghost ship. It's possible to gather enough gold (with some magic jar fights) to get enough gold for a L. Casque which will save Albert from being instant owned in the final boss fights (No joke, 3rd form at night with those fireballs tear up Albert).

Hmm, lets see, Disc 3 is easy untill Yeti (The heart method takes to long unless you can manipulate that) and Lloyd (If you do not have Blossom Storm for the damage reduction that fight is almost impossible).

Charm potions are only useful for your first vist to Helena Prison for the forced encounters. After that they are useless for in battle purposes (they don't work on bosses which is why I dont mention using them outside of the fodder fights in Helena). 
You use them because it skips enemy attack animations, you take no damage, so you need very little in the way of healing items (which you sell for gold for CP which saves time since its faster to use a CP in the menu than to try and escape).
Only possible exception is the first forced fight in Helena during the first visit (you can attack in a way so he will not counter with a burnout, but then you will miss out on leveling up Volcano. The line between getting Final Burst for the Yeti is very thin... like you will either get it after the divine dragon or not thin. I do use crush dance in disc since Meru can easily cover any slack).

Also, yeah sub 3:25 would be hard ti do. My best before I came up with my current route was sub 3:35. I could probably manage sub 3:30 now though

Have fun with disc 2. It is a very easy disc compared to disc 1 in planning. I have the full game routed, but I'm on my last finalization and it is finals week, so I wont be doing any runs till the end of this week.
Hopefully I can finish up disc 1 next week (disc 1 is mostly done, but there are things you can do to make the other discs easier and that is not fun to test).

I will say the hardest parts in disc 2 will be getting rare drops. The first is the x2 bandits x1 gangster fight in Home of The Gigantos. You can supposedly get a bandits ring from the gangster which you would use on Albert, but the drop rate must be microscopic.

Next is the ghost ship. There are 4 magical boogies and you want 2 magical hats and not such a good drop rate (not to mention that place is a nightmare to navigate when doing a speedrun. You get the drops and then you run into a blue flame. I have had this happen and I about flipped).  One thing you would want to check out (I plan to do this when I get there) is the password game on the ghost ship. It's possible to gather enough gold (with some magic jar fights) to get enough gold for a L. Casque which will save Albert from being instant owned in the final boss fights (No joke, 3rd form at night with those fireballs tear up Albert).

Hmm, lets see, Disc 3 is easy untill Yeti (The heart method takes to long unless you can manipulate that) and Lloyd (If you do not have Blossom Storm for the damage reduction that fight is almost impossible).

The2012Robot

Edit history:

The2012Robot: 2012-05-01 05:51:52 pm

2012-05-01 05:14:13 pm

I run for fun :)

Do you have your run routed on the computer? I'd like to see it so I don't have to spend as much time planning. Like for instance, do you know if the Material Shield is useful later on? Oh, and once you're less busy, Skype would be much faster: Bastian Brandt

I'll have to test out what the lowest possible time is between using CPs in those battles vs. just attacking. At least just to see how much faster/slower it is. The information about the DLs is definitely useful to know. On the subject of drops, I'm doing a single-segment run (see my first post for more info on that) so I can't count on getting anything. Of course, if I did get a good item drop in a single-segment, I would switch gears and follow the segmented strategies where possible.

btw, did you get the gmail I sent you? Wasn't sure if it was the right address or not.

obdajr

2012-05-02 11:37:24 am

I dont have time to post a large comment currently, but id love to get involved in planning this run, as i have attempted to run it before! once i read this whole thread ill try to contribute what i can. ill throw out a preliminary good luck though!

The2012Robot

Edit history:

The2012Robot: 2012-05-06 03:41:08 am

The2012Robot: 2012-05-02 06:27:54 pm

2012-05-02 05:26:38 pm

I run for fun :)

I've planned up to right after the first Lenus fight so far. You can get there in about an hour and 33 minutes (1:33). Lenus seems hard at first glance because of the damage she can do, but like most bosses up to this point, there is a way to safely beat her... it just takes around 10 minutes. There might be a faster way to beat her, but if you want Shana and Meru to level up, you really need to have them in your party. And I believe that I have the best possible strat... I just thought of a way I might be able to improve that fight while typing this. I'll have to test it again.

As for the rest of disc 2, my uneducated estimate is that it will take an hour and 20 minutes (1:20). I think it will be minutes above or below in the end.

So the overall estimate is 2:53, which spells trouble for Omnicent's old goal of sub 10:30. If disc 2 really is the shortest disc, then even getting under 12 hours is impossible, because the run is already at 6:20. Getting under 13:00 seems very possible, although like I said; I haven't planned that far yet.

Quote from obdajr:

I dont have time to post a large comment currently, but id love to get involved in planning this run, as i have attempted to run it before! once i read this whole thread ill try to contribute what i can. ill throw out a preliminary good luck though!

Love the enthusiasm Smiley

How far did you get in your attempt and how serious were you? Did you take notes? If you don't have notes that I can look at, I'm not sure how you could help- I'm planning out the run almost every day now and optimization is constantly on my mind so that not much slips my gaze. Unless you followed my route exactly (so that all the characters were the right levels for each fight, etc), you wouldn't be able to help optimize the battles, which is where the most optimization is available. If you have any suggestions, ideas, or questions, I'll gladly respond to them.

Oh, and if anyone wants to check out what's gone into the run so far, sometimes I stream here when I practice: http://www.twitch.tv/the2012robot

I've planned up to right after the first Lenus fight so far. You can get there in about an hour and 33 minutes (1:33). Lenus seems hard at first glance because of the damage she can do, but like most bosses up to this point, there is a way to safely beat her... it just takes around 10 minutes. There might be a faster way to beat her, but if you want Shana and Meru to level up, you really need to have them in your party. And I believe that I have the best possible strat... I just thought of a way I might be able to improve that fight while typing this. I'll have to test it again.

As for the rest of disc 2, my uneducated estimate is that it will take an hour and 20 minutes (1:20). I think it will be minutes above or below in the end.

So the overall estimate is 2:53, which spells trouble for Omnicent's old goal of sub 10:30. If disc 2 really is the shortest disc, then even getting under 12 hours is impossible, because the run is already at 6:20. Getting under 13:00 seems very possible, although like I said; I haven't planned that far yet.

[quote="obdajr"]I dont have time to post a large comment currently, but id love to get involved in planning this run, as i have attempted to run it before! once i read this whole thread ill try to contribute what i can. ill throw out a preliminary good luck though![/quote]

Love the enthusiasm :) How far did you get in your attempt and how serious were you? Did you take notes? If you don't have notes that I can look at, I'm not sure how you could help- I'm planning out the run almost every day now and optimization is constantly on my mind so that not much slips my gaze. Unless you followed my route exactly (so that all the characters were the right levels for each fight, etc), you wouldn't be able to help optimize the battles, which is where the most optimization is available. If you have any suggestions, ideas, or questions, I'll gladly respond to them.

Oh, and if anyone wants to check out what's gone into the run so far, sometimes I stream here when I practice: http://www.twitch.tv/the2012robot

obdajr

2012-05-02 08:28:00 pm

i have run notes for disk 1 and most of disk 2, though the ones that are posted seem quite a but more tested than mine. If you want, this would be a lot easier to discuss over skype or in stream chat (i still have to read this thread completely to see what exactly is going on) one thing i noticed last time i was looking at this though was that when i recruited meru, rose was lower level and had an equal magic attack stat. i know she's slower, but having her for melbu frama might be decent (untested and probably wrong) i can PM you my skype name if you want, and i just followed your stream, so you'll see me around.

The2012Robot

Edit history:

The2012Robot: 2012-05-02 11:20:06 pm

The2012Robot: 2012-05-02 11:19:36 pm

The2012Robot: 2012-05-02 09:26:45 pm

The2012Robot: 2012-05-02 09:26:29 pm

The2012Robot: 2012-05-02 09:25:29 pm

The2012Robot: 2012-05-02 08:47:47 pm

2012-05-02 08:39:33 pm

I run for fun :)

Meru's M-AT is better than Rose's from the start. What's way more interesting to me is if Shana is useful at all during this run. So far I haven't used her to attack even once. I expect that she'll be useful in making the Phantom Ship and the 2nd Lenus fight faster at least.

Edit: According to a page that I'll link below, Shana will most likely be useful against the Divine Dragon, Windigo, possibly Last Kraken, Kubila+Selebus+Vector, Lavitz, possibly Caterpillar, 3rd Virage, and possibly Zieg. If anything, at least her speed will be useful... as long as her DF isn't too low.

http://www.neoseeker.com/resourcelink.html?rlid=187840

Skype name: Bastian Brandt

Add me.

The2012Robot

2012-05-02 11:20:29 pm

I run for fun :)

Oops! I think my Skype name is actually the2012robot Tongue

sorry about that.

Omnicent

Edit history:

Omnicent: 2012-05-03 06:14:29 am

Omnicent: 2012-05-03 06:06:24 am

Omnicent: 2012-05-03 06:03:10 am

2012-05-03 05:42:24 am

Robot you will need just about all re-peat items (exception is the magical sig stone). You will probably the material shield!

You need it for 2 fights where bosses BS you. One is Haschels fight with Claire. She has an attack that drops you to 1 HP. You use Destroyer Mace to up your damage (lower hp = more damage, oh and make sure you Haschel hits level 22? for the addition he gets at that level), but she will kill you before you can finish her (without M-Shield), though I don't think I tried using the PBX (psychedelic bomb X) on her. But even then if it is like the archangel fight it will only trigger the that attack (more on that later).

In Meru's fight arc angel does the same thing. But this fight is strange in that there is a story event in the battle and it apparently gives him some health back after wards (Use PBX which did enough to one shot, but nope he did the attack that drops your hp to 1 and then still had a good bit of life left).

The route is written on paper and not typed. That's why I'm doing Google doc to run through and update it digitally.

As for 10 minute Lenus 1... what? I have timed that fight and it ends within 5-8 minutes for me and that's just attacking and getting good luck (here aoe attacks are long and kill a run, but you can get runs where she won't use them. Good luck with that. That's like trying to get the rare Dole fight without him using that 30sec long attack... possible but not likely). Are you storing up 3-4 Burnouts on disc 1 cause that is what I do and it makes things go faster. I tested using Albert or Shana for this fight and it was about even. You want Albert to get SP since he will barely get Blossom Storm for Lloyd (usually)

As for shana being useful, as far as speed runs go not much.
Divine Dragon:
This is all Meru stomp action. I used Shana because she is fast enough to get Meru buffed and does decent magic damage to do some light clean up if necessary.

Windigo:
Considering you will either power up Dart (super final bursts) or Meru (burnout action) you don't really need Shana. Also if your Albert does not have Blossom storm after before this fight then you have to use him to try and get it for after this fight or Llyod.....no comment. Problem is you only have 32 inventory and with charm potions, some aoe healing, and magic items, you wont have the room to hold enough for both Meru and Shana. and cover disc2 into disc 3 (you need to hold burnouts for Last Krakken).

Last Kraken:
By this point dart should have final burst, so him and Meru duo this (PBX does around 4k+) so you will probably want to use anyone (I need to look into getting Rose more levels for D-Buster Rose. Yeah Magic is not that useful for the final fight).

Kubila+Selebus+Vector:
No shana here. PBX kills 2 of them and puts the third into 1 shot range for dart or Albert (or whomever has a Talisman equipped since the guy that does instant kill on death is the third one).

Lavitz: don't remember this fight to well, sorry.

Caterpillar:
Possibly since his fight was long for me and I have not optimized the Divine Tree yet.

3rd Virage:
simply nope.

Zieg:
Possibly, depend on who you need to level up (Zieg is fodder for the goddess Meru as is everything from when she joins till the final boss)

As for Melbu, no you may be right on Rose for that. I tried Meru and you just don't have enough inventory to make it through Final Virage, Zieg, and all 4 forms of Melbu.
I ran out of items around the 3rd form and then Meru was sadly garbage. Now if you can get PBX from using Magic Eco Balls then I would try that (don't know if that's even possible).
Used Haschel, but then he needs to be at 1 HP and that is suicide. You can make it through forms 1 and 2 with 1 HP if your lucky(and use repeat shield items), but past that not so much.

I'm going to try Rose. You can level up her additions on Michael (Dark DG armor and the Dark DG accessory. She can 1 shot with PBX when Michaels weak point appears) without much trouble.
I'd have to time if its worth it, but it probably will be. Seriously in my run Divine Dragon Dart was doing around 800 with D-Additions, Albert 650, and the third was doing negligible amounts in comparison
( Healed Haschel doing around 150-200 magic doing around 200-300).

Robot you will need just about all re-peat items (exception is the magical sig stone). You will probably the material shield!

You need it for 2 fights where bosses BS you. One is Haschels fight with Claire. She has an attack that drops you to 1 HP. You use Destroyer Mace to up your damage (lower  hp = more damage, oh and make sure you Haschel hits level 22? for the addition he gets at that level), but she will kill you before you can finish her (without M-Shield), though I don't think I tried using the PBX (psychedelic bomb X) on her. But even then if it is like the archangel fight it will only trigger the that attack (more on that later).

In Meru's fight arc angel does the same thing. But this fight is strange in that there is a story event in the battle and it apparently gives him some health back after wards (Use PBX which did enough to one shot, but nope he did the attack that drops your hp to 1 and then still had a good bit of life left).

The route is written on paper and not typed. That's why I'm doing Google doc to run through and update it digitally.

As for 10 minute Lenus 1... what? I have timed that fight and it ends within 5-8 minutes for me and that's just attacking and getting good luck (here aoe attacks are long and kill a run, but you can get runs where she won't use them. Good luck with that. That's like trying to get the rare Dole fight without him using that 30sec long attack... possible but not likely). Are you storing up 3-4 Burnouts on disc 1 cause that is what I do and it makes things go faster. I tested using Albert or Shana for this fight and it was about even. You want Albert to get SP since he will barely get Blossom Storm for Lloyd (usually)

As for shana being useful, as far as speed runs go not much.
Divine Dragon:
This is all Meru stomp action. I used Shana because she is fast enough to get Meru buffed and does decent magic damage to do some light clean up if necessary.

Windigo:
Considering you will either power up Dart (super final bursts) or Meru (burnout action) you don't really need Shana. Also if your Albert does not have Blossom storm after before this fight then you have to use him to try and get it for after this fight or Llyod.....no comment.  Problem is you only have 32 inventory and with charm potions, some aoe healing, and magic items, you wont have the room to hold enough for both Meru and Shana.  and cover disc2 into disc 3 (you need to hold burnouts for Last Krakken).

Last Kraken:
By this point dart should have final burst, so him and Meru duo this (PBX does around 4k+) so you will probably want to use anyone (I need to look into getting Rose more levels for D-Buster Rose. Yeah Magic is not that useful for the final fight).

Kubila+Selebus+Vector:
No shana here. PBX kills 2 of them and puts the third into 1 shot range for dart or Albert (or whomever has a Talisman equipped since the guy that does instant kill on death is the third one).

Lavitz: don't remember this fight to well, sorry.

Caterpillar:
Possibly since his fight was long for me and I have not optimized the Divine Tree yet.

3rd Virage:
simply nope.

Zieg:
Possibly, depend on who you need to level up (Zieg is fodder for the goddess Meru as is everything from when she joins till the final boss)

As for Melbu, no you may be right on Rose for that. I tried Meru and you just don't have enough inventory to make it through Final Virage, Zieg, and all 4 forms of Melbu.
I ran out of items around the 3rd form and then Meru was sadly garbage. Now if you can get PBX from using Magic Eco Balls then I would try that (don't know if that's even possible).
Used Haschel, but then he needs to be at 1 HP and that is suicide. You can make it through forms 1 and 2 with 1 HP if your lucky(and use repeat shield items), but past that not so much.

I'm going to try Rose. You can level up her additions on Michael (Dark DG armor and the Dark  DG accessory. She can 1 shot with PBX when Michaels weak point appears) without much trouble.
I'd have to time if its worth it, but it probably will be. Seriously in my run Divine Dragon Dart was doing around 800 with D-Additions, Albert 650, and the third was doing negligible amounts in comparison 
( Healed Haschel doing around 150-200 magic doing around 200-300).

obdajr

2012-05-03 12:52:10 pm

i remember fighting melbu on my first attempt with albert and meru, and meru was pretty much completely useless. items did very little damage, and ran out way too early in the fight. rose with the dragon buster seems like a good alternative, and with comparable magic attack and dancers equipment, you arn't giving up too much value. also rose is tankier so she wont die in 2 hits or whatever... is there a resource on this game with stat growth charts for the characters? i'm curious about a few things, but haven't been able to find one.

thanks robot, ill add you now, (tryed before but the name was wrong lol)

The2012Robot

2012-05-03 06:03:39 pm

I run for fun :)

Good information. We'll see what happens to my time if I keep using Shana. So far I've only mapped out battles to go as fast as possible, with no consideration for SP (that's easily changeable).

Omnicent

2012-05-04 02:59:19 pm

Well I have finished my finals for the semester, so I can start working on my google doc.

The2012Robot

2012-05-05 01:51:17 pm

I run for fun :)

Nice. Read the thing about one-shotting the Hellena Soliders. I had just thought about that recently but hadn't tested out how fast it was compared to two-shotting each. Probably does save a couple seconds at least.

Omnicent

Edit history:

Omnicent: 2012-05-06 03:46:42 pm

Omnicent: 2012-05-06 03:31:06 pm

2012-05-06 03:29:47 pm

You have to make sure Dart gains the extra levels from letting Shana be ko'd by frugal in Helena during the first visit.
Basicly if you are 1 level to low Dart won't do enough damage. I didn't figure this out till I planned out my xp route.
Though now that I plan to let Rose get xp once Albert gets Blossom Storm I have to re-model it a bit.

For now though I'm going to re-run through what I currently have since I made changes with charm potions (was 1 CP short, but it should be fixed. Still need to make sure though).