Super Mario World 11-exit Improvement

Edit history:

thegreginator: 2006-08-06 08:23:54 pm

2006-06-04 01:52:12 am

I recently saw the Super Mario World minimalist run in 10:56 by Scott Kessler on this site. I noticed some improvements that could be made, and decided to work together with a friend (switching off levels) to make an improved speedrun of this game.

We have only done one preliminary run through, which had MANY mistakes, but still managed to get a time of 11:05, only 9 seconds behind. If these mistakes are fixed and we have a good run, I am predicting a time of around 10:51, which is a significant improvement.

Any comments or feedback are welcome. Grin

Also, I have a few question on strategies if anyone could help me out.
1) I'm not sure how to reliably and consistently do the smashola glitch (using a cape to fall through rotating blocks on Star World 1). I have gotten 288 left on the clock before, but this is rare and I usually get 285-287.
2) If anyone knows how to contol or manipulate flying speed. I can range from a 270-272 on Star World 4 even if I do everything exactly the same.

I'm sure I will have more questions later but this is all for now. Thanks for your input. Wink

[-topic decapped by Radix...]

Thread title:

I recently saw the Super Mario World minimalist run in 10:56 by Scott Kessler on this site.  I noticed some improvements that could be made, and decided to work together with a friend (switching off levels) to make an improved speedrun of this game.

We have only done one preliminary run through, which had MANY mistakes, but still managed to get a time of 11:05, only 9 seconds behind.  If these mistakes are fixed and we have a good run, I am predicting a time of around 10:51, which is a significant improvement.

Any comments or feedback are welcome.  ;D

Also, I have a few question on strategies if anyone could help me out.  
1)  I'm not sure how to reliably and consistently do the smashola glitch (using a cape to fall through rotating blocks on Star World 1).  I have gotten 288 left on the clock before, but this is rare and I usually get 285-287.
2) If anyone knows how to contol or manipulate flying speed.  I can range from a 270-272 on Star World 4 even if I do everything exactly the same.

I'm sure I will have more questions later but this is all for now.  Thanks for your input. ;)

[-topic decapped by Radix...]

Sir VG

2006-06-04 02:01:54 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Check out the latest TAS for help with the "smashola" glitch for Star World 1. That should give you a little help. I also believe they did some good documentation on flying...check out the submission texts to see if there's anything there.

Good luck.

andrewg

2006-06-04 03:18:39 am

Hi! I'm andrewg!

been thinking about this run as well... very hard to make an improvement. Im guessing 2 seconds improvement is about the best that could be made... unless you used a lot of glitches. My best time at the game is only 12:30, or 12:16 by SDA.

i only played probably 100 times.

i might try for this record sometime... i just need to practice!

Lucid Faia

Edit history:

Lucid Faia: 2006-06-04 03:29:20 am

2006-06-04 03:27:24 am

Yeah, I said it.

I've had a TG-verified 10:55 for well over a year and a half now, but I haven't submitted it because the quality of the VHS tape is questionable, to say the least. I might chance it some day.

There doesn't seem to be any way to execute the Star World 1 glitch reliably. My friends and I call it "the gamble," because attempting that glitch can make or break the entire run.

I never bothered with trying to manipulate the flying speed. Under a human's control, there doesn't seem to be a lot of room for improvement over normal flying speed. I just use spin-jump flying, which has no room for those minor speed boosts, but is more reliable and controllable than regular flying.

My times, if anyone's interested...

YI2 - 360
YI3 - 258
YI4 - 275
#1 - 240
DP1 - 360
DS1 - 257
DSH - 335 (the weak point of my run)
SW1 - 285
SW2 - 259
SW3 - 191
SW4 - 271
FD - 357

skamastaG

Edit history:

skamastaG: 2006-06-04 03:48:18 am

2006-06-04 03:42:19 am

Hey, I'm the person working with thegreginator on this run. Those are some impressive times Lucid Faia. Nice work on that 257 on DS1. I can get 257, but its not very consistent. I would appreciate any advice you have for this level.

I am going to be playing YI3, YI4, C1, DS1, SW1, half of front door, and possibly YI2

Lucid Faia

Edit history:

Lucid Faia: 2006-06-04 03:54:44 am

2006-06-04 03:53:37 am

Yeah, I said it.

Donut Secret 1 is one of the hardest levels of the run, and is by far the level that I practiced the most. That 257 is not a time that I got often. If you can get a 255 or 256 reliably, you're doing well.

Basically, the critical points of the level are spin-flying into that one paratroopa to get his shell, and then hanging onto it until you reach the P-switch. For the couple of moments that you have to get the shell past an enemy, hang onto the shell at all times with the Y button, and then use the X button (the other "run" button; a lesser known tactic) to spin with the cape, and hope that the enemy is hit by Mario's cape and not by the shell. If you're dropping the shell at any time before getting to the P-Switch, you're screwing up. Other than that, all I can say is, practice. =\

VorpalEdge

Edit history:

VorpalEdge: 2006-06-04 03:58:50 am

2006-06-04 03:58:34 am

welcome to the machine

Submit that run. If that 'oh-god-my-eyes-THE-COLORS!' smb2 run can be submitted, so can this. Tongue

jimsfriend

2006-06-04 04:02:16 am

Like A Fox

Yeah submit it, I want to see that 257. skamastaG, I'm curious to know if you will be trying for 259 in YI3.

skamastaG

Edit history:

skamastaG: 2006-06-04 04:07:11 am

2006-06-04 04:04:00 am

i can get a 256 almost every time on ds1. the hardest part for getting a 257 is knowing exactly when to press down after coming out of the pipe so that you can swim right between the two fish before the p block. I think I have only gotten a 257 once.

Im not sure what level i have spent the most time on, but at the moment i would have to castle1

To answer Jimsfriend, yes I will be getting a 259 on YI3.
When i first started doing speed runs for this game, I probably spent hours trying to get a 259. I have now mastered this level, and it is very rare for me not to get a 259.

thegreginator

Edit history:

thegreginator: 2006-06-04 04:30:51 am

2006-06-04 04:28:12 am

jimsfriend, lucid faia, and anyone else who reads here:

I am going to post all my times for my 11-exit run. They will be in the following format: level - best time (by either me or skamastaG) - usual time (if nothing appears best times is the usual time).

The reason I am posting them is so if anyone has or knows a (reasonable) way to beat any of these times, they can share their strategies so these times can be improved.

These times have not all been recorded in a run, but are on an indiviadul level basis.

YI2 - 360
YI3 - 259
YI4 - 275
C1 - 241
DP1 - 262 - 261/260 (flying speed variation)
DS1 - 257 - 256
DSH - 339 - 338
SW1 - 288 - 287-285 (seemingly random smashola)
SW2 - 260
SW3 - 192
SW4 - 272 (I can sometimes get a 271-270 due to flight speed variation, but rarely)
Front Door - 357 - 356/355 (this level hasnt been perfected, just need more practice)
Bowser Fight - 2 min 3 sec (from when bowser stage materializes to last hit on bowser)

Please share your improvements and criticisms. If anyone has a question about strategies or how a particular time was possible, just ask. Wink

jimsfriend, see my reply on TASvideos

jimsfriend, lucid faia, and anyone else who reads here:

I am going to post all my times for my 11-exit run.  They will be in the following format: level - best time (by either me or skamastaG) - usual time (if nothing appears best times is the usual time).

The reason I am posting them is so if anyone has or knows a (reasonable) way to beat any of these times, they can share their strategies so these times can be improved.

These times have not all been recorded in a run, but are on an indiviadul level basis.

YI2 - 360
YI3 - 259
YI4 - 275
C1 - 241
DP1 - 262 - 261/260 (flying speed variation)
DS1 - 257 - 256
DSH - 339 - 338
SW1 - 288 - 287-285 (seemingly random smashola)
SW2 - 260
SW3 - 192
SW4 - 272 (I can sometimes get a 271-270 due to flight speed variation, but rarely)
Front Door - 357 - 356/355 (this level hasnt been perfected, just need more practice)
Bowser Fight - 2 min 3 sec (from when bowser stage materializes to last hit on bowser)

Please share your improvements and criticisms.  If anyone has a question about strategies or how a particular time was possible, just ask. ;)

jimsfriend, see my reply on TASvideos

jimsfriend

2006-06-04 04:47:06 am

Like A Fox

To thegreginator:
The 5-up is pretty simple but takes practice. So maybe it's not simple. Ummm, how about a picture, this may take a few minutes. There. Hopefully the picture is better than just words. I'm bad with words, and most people usually think my pictures are good enough.

In SW2 I don't know what time is reasonable, but do you kick the gray pswitch to open the keybox? It's been a while since I saw it done this way, so I don't know if 192 uses this strategy.

Getting the cape in SW4 might not be too bad, but you would have to spin fly. Land on the tree below the cape box and then spin fly to open it from unerneath, then get the cape and continue regular flight from wherever possible. A little time would be lost getting the cape, but beating bowser faster might make up for it.

In DS1 do you swim up into the corners in the first half of the level (before the pipe)? It gives you a little boost. Not enough to save a time unit, but it does save time (I wouldn't worry about consistency on this, if you worry about it at all). Maybe TG wouldn't allow this though.

Those times are quite good. I hope you guys are able to finish your in less time than mine is taking me. I really want to see this. Lucid, yours too.

To thegreginator:
The 5-up is pretty simple but takes practice. So maybe it's not simple. Ummm, how about a picture, this may take a few minutes. [url=http://img154.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc176&image=91694_5up.JPG]There[/url]. Hopefully the picture is better than just words. I'm bad with words, and most people usually think my pictures are good enough.

In SW2 I don't know what time is reasonable, but do you kick the gray pswitch to open the keybox? It's been a while since I saw it done this way, so I don't know if 192 uses this strategy.

Getting the cape in SW4 might not be too bad, but you would have to spin fly. Land on the tree below the cape box and then spin fly to open it from unerneath, then get the cape and continue regular flight from wherever possible. A little time would be lost getting the cape, but beating bowser faster might make up for it.

In DS1 do you swim up into the corners in the first half of the level (before the pipe)? It gives you a little boost. Not enough to save a time unit, but it does save time (I wouldn't worry about consistency on this, if you worry about it at all). Maybe TG wouldn't allow this though.

Those times are quite good. I hope you guys are able to finish your in less time than mine is taking me. I really want to see this. Lucid, yours too.

thegreginator

Edit history:

thegreginator: 2006-06-04 05:11:55 am

2006-06-04 05:08:02 am

jimsfriend, for the 5-up thing, is there any way to grab the shell when it bounces of the "staircase" back at you? Also, great picture, what program did you use to make it?

In SW2, i throw the pswitch at the key block from underneath because its too hard to hit it with the pswitch on the side. Hitting it from underneath still gives the key enough time to become "grabable" before you get to it. If done with precision, a 192 happens most of the time.

Yeah thats a really good idea for getting the cape, now I just need to practice the bowser fight with it.

I've read about the hitting the corners in water levels thing on TASvideos and I dont notice any difference when I try it so I dont know if skamastaG will do it (hes doing DS1).

I predict we will finish fairly soon because we're making great progress for the one day we've been recording and doing runs together.

skamastaG

Edit history:

skamastaG: 2006-06-04 06:12:18 am

2006-06-04 06:03:35 am

right now i am trying to optimize my castle 1, but in order for me to get my fastest time i have to get the fire flower which pauses the game temporarily.
normally the boss takes 4 time units(which i call marios) but without it i can only beat him in 5. when i jump on him he always stays in place once which costs time. for that not to happen i either have to jump higher in between, or hit the ground and jump into him but these also take time. if any one knows a way to beat iggy in 4 marios without a fire flower, please help me out.

thanks for the help

Lucid Faia

2006-06-04 08:14:57 am

Yeah, I said it.

I might bundle it with my Demon's Crest runs next time I submit something. We'll see. Is using a DVD recorder to "capture" the run to DVD and then send it from a computer an option? I'm not very knowledgable on that subject.

Anyway, those times look good, and yes, I didn't know it when I did my run, but 259 on YI3 is easy if you know the trick behind it.

thegreginator, the time of yours that interests me the most is that 241 on #1. I could never get to the first door in under 280, which invariably leads to a 240.

mjf314

2006-06-04 09:22:10 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I noticed some improvements that could be made, and decided to work together with a friend (switching off levels) to make an improved speedrun of this game.

I don't think that would be allowed if you wanna submit it to SDA, I think it has to be by 1 person only. I might be wrong though, I don't remember something like this happening in the past, so I guess we should wait for Radix to comment on this.

mike89

2006-06-04 10:41:00 am

SEGA Junkie

There's two-player simultaneous runs up - I can't see why this wouldn't be allowed.

thegreginator

Edit history:

thegreginator: 2006-06-04 06:22:31 pm

2006-06-04 05:27:08 pm

Lucid Faia: skamastaG is the one who does Castle 1. I know he gets to the door at 281 for the 241 to be possible, but you might want to ask him exactly what he does to get the 281 for that door.

mjf314: I have already asked Radix about switching off levels and he said it would be fine.

ReTrOgAmEr

2006-06-04 05:40:35 pm

Take This! Ultra Frisbee-Disk Attack!

I'd be a bit skeptical about something like that until you saw it with your own eyes, don't rely so much on what others tell you but what they actually see. If they have seen this happen, then fine, try it out and see what happens, but you never really know, it could have been done. I'll see if I can work on that or obtain any other information that can help you out.

thegreginator

2006-06-04 06:12:17 pm

BIG NEWS!! I just got a 365 on DP1! This is a legit 365, and yes I start out without a cape. The best part about this 365 is that I actually collect two capes so I can use my reserve one in the Bowser fight to save time. There is actually one part in my technique that could be improved, so I think a 366 *might* be possible.

I want my video to look impressive when I submit it, so I'm not going to reveal my strategy on how I get 365, or it would ruin the surprise of the video. If you really want to know, ask me and I might PM it to you.

Hopefully I'll have some more updates soon!

jimsfriend

2006-06-04 07:53:00 pm

Like A Fox

I think I know what you did... check your PM on my comments in a couple minutes. About the image, I got it from vgmaps.com. Stefan probably hacked the map file out of a rom and posted it as a .png, and I just copy it into paint then draw on it.

skamastaG

2006-06-04 08:22:52 pm

More Big News!! I just got a 289 on SW1 using the TAS method. It is much quicker and more reliable. There isn't any way of going too fast and dying because you land right on the key. I think I can get a 290 if I clean up the strategy a little bit.

Fabian

Edit history:

Fabian: 2006-06-04 10:02:11 pm

2006-06-04 08:54:11 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Hi guys,

For those who don't know me, I'm working on an improvement of the 96 exit TAS for this game.

About the corner grabbing in DS1, if you can do it without any trouble whatsoever, go ahead and do it. However, each time it saves 1 or 2 frames, with 1 being much more common (1 frame is 1/60 of a second) so doing it basically doesn't save any time considering the way these runs are timed.

Now the smashola glitch. I'll try to describe this as clearly as I can, and if I mention things you already know, I apologize. Just trying to make it as clear as possible. First of all, what you want to do is have 2 spinning blocks on each side of mario (meaning, when you go down to the key, don't do it right by the wall, have one set of blocks between the wall and mario).

Ok. As Mario destroys the first and second block on his way down, just hold Y and nothing else. Just after the third block is destroyed, start holding -> (or <-) and hold B/A. If you're going right (->), what you're aiming for is to hit the block to the right of the lower spinning block on the right side with the cape, before you destroy the block underneath the spinning ones. Hitting that block will initiate the glitch and you'll get through it perfectly almost every time (I've been doing this alot while playing regularly as well, not just when TASing). Holding B/A is the key here, it's what gives Mario time to float sideways before hitting the ground (the block). Btw, I've seen some videos where people try initiating the glitch by pressing down, which makes no difference, so avoid that.

Ok that sounded tricky. It's not as difficult as it sounds though. If you need clarification just ask me.

Edit: Also note that if you want to go -> the second time (when going down to the key) you need to have two rows of blocks between the wall and Mario. In my opinion, it can be tricky to position yourself correctly for that move, so I'd probably recommend going <- and turning -> after the glitch has started. But that's up to you, you're playing better than me anyway Smiley

Edit 2: I didn't see the post above mine where you said you had already done it, so my explanation wasn't very necessary Smiley

I do think that spinjumping down on the second row of blocks (from the wall) and starting the glitch on Mario's left, then starting to hold -> has potential to be faster than what you're doing, but I'm basing this on nothing. But you might want to try it out.

Good luck!

Hi guys,

For those who don't know me, I'm working on an improvement of the 96 exit TAS for this game.

About the corner grabbing in DS1, if you can do it without any trouble whatsoever, go ahead and do it. However, each time it saves 1 or 2 frames, with 1 being much more common (1 frame is 1/60 of a second) so doing it basically doesn't save any time considering the way these runs are timed.

Now the smashola glitch. I'll try to describe this as clearly as I can, and if I mention things you already know, I apologize. Just trying to make it as clear as possible. First of all, what you want to do is have 2 spinning blocks on each side of mario (meaning, when you go down to the key, don't do it right by the wall, have one set of blocks between the wall and mario).

Ok. As Mario destroys the first and second block on his way down, just hold Y and nothing else. Just after the third block is destroyed, start holding -> (or <-) and hold B/A. If you're going right (->), what you're aiming for is to hit the block to the right of the lower spinning block on the right side with the cape, before you destroy the block underneath the spinning ones. Hitting that block will initiate the glitch and you'll get through it perfectly almost every time (I've been doing this alot while playing regularly as well, not just when TASing). Holding B/A is the key here, it's what gives Mario time to float sideways before hitting the ground (the block). Btw, I've seen some videos where people try initiating the glitch by pressing down, which makes no difference, so avoid that.

Ok that sounded tricky. It's not as difficult as it sounds though. If you need clarification just ask me.

Edit: Also note that if you want to go -> the second time (when going down to the key) you need to have two rows of blocks between the wall and Mario. In my opinion, it can be tricky to position yourself correctly for that move, so I'd probably recommend going <- and turning -> after the glitch has started. But that's up to you, you're playing better than me anyway :)

Edit 2: I didn't see the post above mine where you said you had already done it, so my explanation wasn't very necessary :) I do think that spinjumping down on the second row of blocks (from the wall) and starting the glitch on Mario's left, then starting to hold -> has potential to be faster than what you're doing, but I'm basing this on nothing. But you might want to try it out.

Good luck!

skamastaG

2006-06-04 09:11:12 pm

Fabian, thanks for the smashola tips. I just got a 290 on SW1 four times in a row. Grin

I know its possible to do faster but it's incredibly hard too land perfectly on the third block from the wall on the second set. For now I just run onto it then do the smashola glitch.

Thanks for the help!!

Lucid Faia

2006-06-04 09:33:48 pm

Yeah, I said it.

Wonderful. At the rate you guys are going, you're going to beat 10:55, which means I'm going to have to play this game again. Roll Eyes

skamastaG

Edit history:

skamastaG: 2006-06-04 09:55:53 pm

2006-06-04 09:55:23 pm

Even if I land perfectly and do smashola as fast as I can I can only get a 290. I know TAS can get 292, but I am not sure if it is possible on console. Please let me know if anybody has or knows how to get better than 290 on SW1. Any advice is helpful.

Thanks for the comment Lucid Faia.
Thegreginator and I have our last finals tomorrow so we will be able to practice a lot more and we will be able to get lots of recording done real soon.