[SNES] Super Metroid

2012-11-06 11:45:47 am

Knowing nothing about running Super Metroid, what's the difference in routing between a real time run and a game time run?

Melodia

2012-11-06 11:55:51 am

Number of doors and time in the pause menu, basically. The game's timer stops when in the door transitions as well as when you're in the pause menu. So if you have a route that takes a slightly bit more time, but goes through less doors the in game timer will be in your favor. Similarly, you can turn off and on things without it affecting the in game time (for instance the varia and gravity right before the baby metroid sucking you) but that time saved won't be enough in a real time run.

Reeve

2012-11-06 02:13:11 pm

Pretty much what Melodia said. Compared to the route kottpower took (same garrison has been using), an in-game time route would pick up Spazer for using the Murder Beam on Mother Brain. Also the Ice beam would be taken early so you don't have to use the hero shot in the Red Brinstar Shaft and you can kill Phantoon with a combination of two charged shots (wave+ice beam) in the first round followed by a power wave combo and in the second round you finish him with a charged shot and two missiles and a super. Doing this you don't loose time collecting power bomb drops in red brinstar for using two power wave combos on Phantoon. Also, as in the in-game route you collect ice beam early, when you reach Norfair and is going for Ridley, you can go through the big corridor with speedbooster blocks instead of using the passage above crocomire's room, which is slower in-game time.

The route used by kottpower is the fastest route in terms of realtime, it avoids all pause screens and has much less door transitions than the route used by hotarubi in his 32/31min run. It also picks three itens less iirc, a super missile, an energy tank and Spazer.

Pretty much what Melodia said. Compared to the route kottpower took (same garrison has been using), an in-game time route would pick up Spazer for using the Murder Beam on Mother Brain. Also the Ice beam would be taken early so you don't have to use the hero shot in the Red Brinstar Shaft and you can kill Phantoon with a combination of two charged shots (wave+ice beam) in the first round followed by a power wave combo and in the second round you finish him with a charged shot and two missiles and a super. Doing this you don't loose time collecting power bomb drops in red brinstar for using two power wave combos on Phantoon. Also, as in the in-game route you collect ice beam early, when you reach Norfair and is going for Ridley, you can go through the big corridor with speedbooster blocks instead of using the passage above crocomire's room, which is slower in-game time.

The route used by kottpower is the fastest route in terms of realtime, it avoids all pause screens and has much less door transitions than the route used by hotarubi in his 32/31min run. It also picks three itens less iirc, a super missile, an energy tank and Spazer.

Garrison

2012-11-06 03:17:37 pm

That's correct for the most part. Once key difference though, is that both options are available on the realtime route in regards to leaving the ice beam area (oldschool any% LN path is one realtime second faster than the 100% path to LN).

Reeve

2012-11-06 04:43:21 pm

Iirc, using the 100% route has 2 door transitions less than using the normal route through the speed blocks corridor. Yet the 100% route is slower?

Garrison

2012-11-06 08:07:04 pm

yeah, we timed both routes from ice beam and 100% route ended up being just slightly slower realtime. gametime takes the bigger hit going that way, obviously.

Reeve

Edit history:

Reeve: 2012-11-25 12:21:24 pm

Reeve: 2012-11-25 12:19:47 pm

Reeve: 2012-11-17 05:22:33 am

Reeve: 2012-11-17 05:21:13 am

Reeve: 2012-11-16 09:04:46 am

2012-11-16 08:55:17 am

Decided to do a test savestated run using bizhawk (seems to be the most accurate emulator for snes) while going through the later ice route, but instead of taking the 100% route after ice beam i picked the usual route. I got a 27:31:20 in-game time with a 43:26:56 realtime.

Also, i did a test using both routes after ice beam and the 100% route came to be faster realtime by 1 second and 30 frames, but slower by around 4 seconds. I used the most optimized strategies for both routes when testing. The strategies i used are not hard in realtime and the optimizations are mostly about trying to land power bombs in the first possible frame or trying to reach the higher speed when needed and stuffs like that, just to be fair with the test. The difference between my test and yours is probably due to different strategies, mainly for the area under the gates, the one with a lot of creatures. What i did there was to run into the first creature to get some invencibility, then i shot when samus is in the higher spot of each slope which is usually enough to clear the way to the door and it also opens the door early so you can go through it in full speed.

I honestly don't recomend the 100% route after ice beam. Reason is, it's easier to mess up using this route than the usual one and if you make a 1 and half second mistake, for example, then this route will be just equally fast as the other one, but almost 6 seconds slower in-game time.

Considering Bizhawk is really accurate and the numbers would be around the same for console, to get a 31:59:59 in-game time using the normal route after ice beam your final realtime should be 47:55:35. If you use the 100% route after ice beam, then to get a 31:59:59 in-game time your realtime should be 47:50:15. Of course these are raw numbers and lag can make this final time a bit different, but it's probably pretty close, unless the emulator is not as accurate as people say. So, theoretically garrison's 47:58 was around 8 or 9 seconds from hitting 31min in-game time and kottpower's 47:38 was around 31:48 in-game time.

Edit: Here is a quick encode:

Edit 2: I was not satisfied with the run i did and decided to redo it from Brinstar. Also found a way to make the hero shot faster.

Decided to do a test savestated run using bizhawk (seems to be the most accurate emulator for snes) while going through the later ice route, but instead of taking the 100% route after ice beam i picked the usual route. I got a 27:31:20 in-game time with a 43:26:56 realtime.

Also, i did a test using both routes after ice beam and the 100% route came to be faster realtime by 1 second and 30 frames, but slower by around 4 seconds. I used the most optimized strategies for both routes when testing. The strategies i used are not hard in realtime and the optimizations are mostly about trying to land power bombs in the first possible frame or trying to reach the higher speed when needed and stuffs like that, just to be fair with the test. The difference between my test and yours is probably due to different strategies, mainly for the area under the gates, the one with a lot of creatures. What i did there was to run into the first creature to get some invencibility, then i shot when samus is in the higher spot of each slope which is usually enough to clear the way to the door and it also opens the door early so you can go through it in full speed.

I honestly don't recomend the 100% route after ice beam. Reason is, it's easier to mess up using this route than the usual one and if you make a 1 and half second mistake, for example, then this route will be just equally fast as the other one, but almost 6 seconds slower in-game time.

Considering Bizhawk is really accurate and the numbers would be around the same for console, to get a 31:59:59 in-game time using the normal route after ice beam your final realtime should be 47:55:35. If you use the 100% route after ice beam, then to get a 31:59:59 in-game time your realtime should be 47:50:15. Of course these are raw numbers and lag can make this final time a bit different, but it's probably pretty close, unless the emulator is not as accurate as people say. So, theoretically garrison's 47:58 was around 8 or 9 seconds from hitting 31min in-game time and kottpower's 47:38 was around 31:48 in-game time.

Edit: Here is a quick encode:

Edit 2: I was not satisfied with the run i did and decided to redo it from Brinstar. Also found a way to make the hero shot faster.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRMn06zoF4c[/video]

gari_fan_2012

2012-12-14 01:39:26 am

<coolkid> we bet on the right horse after all
<coolkid> Suck it Svenne

sinister1

2012-12-14 07:57:55 am

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

Congrats on retaking the WR Garrison!! You are a true champion of SM speedrunning and deserve this record for all the hard work you put in as well as what you have done for the game and the community.

Quote from gari_fan_2012:

<coolkid> we bet on the right horse after all
<coolkid> Suck it Svenne

I don't see why you have to take the focus away from Garrison's accomplishment with petty personal attacks that do not belong here. His run speaks for itself.

Svenne

2012-12-14 08:31:57 am

Smörgåsbord

Congrats Garrison, Really nice run! Cheesy

I hope Dan starts playing this again now when he has a reason to do so!

Garrison

Edit history:

Garrison: 2012-12-14 12:18:29 pm

2012-12-14 12:17:05 pm

http://www.twitch.tv/garrison_tt/c/1775936

There's the run for those that missed it. I'll be submitting it since I feel that my execution was good throughout the whole thing and most of my time lost was due to ammo luck. Getting the fastest possible phantoon and having draygon not be an idiot was good enough luck that the rest of the bad luck didn't matter much.

Also, kottpower and myself are actually friends, so there's no reason to have some sort of rivalry going on. We're all just speedgamers, afterall.

ChristosOwen

2012-12-14 04:13:44 pm

Congratulations Gari, fully deserved. Looking forward to watching this!

Exo

2012-12-14 07:08:49 pm

Sandbagging

Well done Garrison Smiley

Heidrage

2012-12-14 07:24:44 pm

Willing to teach you the impossible

Nice. I like how you talked about skipping missile packs then having to do it. Then getting the luck you needed. I love to see the game cooperate in times like that. Well done.

Garrison

2012-12-18 10:35:12 pm

47:18 with normal ammo count, no full halfy, no pillars. It was just a random no reset run for AGDQ practice and everything was just real solid. It's here if you want to watch: http://www.twitch.tv/garrison_tt/c/1785450

Dessyreqt

2012-12-24 10:47:25 pm

100% in 1:22:54, :51 ingame. RTA world record as of now.

ozzy88

2012-12-25 04:06:17 am

Congratulations Dessy! I hope this one was recorded Smiley

Tiberius

2012-12-27 05:33:26 am

Make it so.

Well there's a nice christmas present for us, congrats!

Garrison

Edit history:

Garrison: 2013-03-10 02:40:14 pm

2013-03-10 12:54:28 pm

So I got a new personal best last night, 46:11 RTA (00:30 in-game). This run cut 21 seconds off my previous personal best and as far as I know, it's also the first :30 anyone has gotten single segment. I'm probably going to be submitting it so new players can finally stop learning from hotarubi's runs, but I have no idea if its my final word on the game. Huge props to kottpower, his competition with me combined with his setup for the new metroid skip are a very large reason why this run exists. Anyways, here's the youtube for now:

Heidrage on vacation

2013-03-10 12:56:57 pm

♥

PJ

2013-03-10 02:05:11 pm

Is PJ

Too good, Garrison. Too good. Congrats on finally getting a 0:30! That's an insane time. :O

Mr. K

2013-03-10 08:30:48 pm

Yes

Garrison, I have no words for that. It's like every level name from Super Mario World's special courses combined.

sinister1

2013-03-10 11:25:37 pm

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

When that CLEAR TIME 00:30 finally flashed across the screen was one of the most epic moments I have ever seen. So glad you finally got a run you are happy with!

#YESDUDEYES

Reeve

2013-03-12 05:30:44 pm

Congratulations, Garrison! You did a great job! Imo a 30min run is the limit in terms of SS run for this game, so it's nice that people are running this game aiming for realtime, so we can still wait for improvements.

Elpis_TK31

2013-04-05 08:05:57 am

PAL 50Hz KILL ME NOW

Can somebody explain to me how to do a mockball without having to make a full jump/hold the jump button down/hitting a ceiling?
I'm currently stuck at 1:11 game time (100%) and I want to get 0:59 so bad...
I also can't seem to do the "pass through ceiling" stuff in the Wrecked Ship and Maridia (spring ball access w/o grapple) -_-