As someone who started speedrunning this game since early 2013, on PAL version (because I didn't know about NTSC), and also have reasons for not streaming, I must say I understand. My times aren't nearly as good, but I also consider myself an honest player who post times anyway, regardless of your belief. I've seen Behemoth on the scene from a very long time ago, along with Garrison, Dessyreqt and Kottpower, and they are all good. There is a competition going on here, but remember guys, it's just a game. And I must also say I'm obsessed with Super Metroid. And suddenly, video pops up, woooooooow!!!!
SDA Forum
I created this account to solely congratulate you! I love Super Metroid and I'm a big fan of your Turok 2 speed run! Don't let none of these butthurts get to you, a speed run is a speed run. If any top player is good at the game wrs are free to take any time of the day. This runs shows a 42 can be possible by any of the top players including you. Race for 42.
Edit history:
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-08 10:57:01 am
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-08 10:56:36 am
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-08 10:54:10 am
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-08 10:51:42 am
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-08 10:51:17 am
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-08 10:50:17 am
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-08 10:49:12 am
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-08 10:47:02 am
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-08 10:46:12 am
My name is 4N6/Forensics.
Quote from Jadin:
the sad way a few people in m2k2 shit on other communities/learning players is way more important than whatever time they get in a speedrun. i wish more ppl saw that
What? When and who from M2K2 shut out or shit on a community? I have always said if anybody wants any help don't hesitate to ask.
It is the SRL community who shut out and badmouthed M2K2 if anything.
BTW Behemoth you are flat out amazing congratulations man, hope you sub 43!!!
Also I haven't said it here, but I said it on M2K2 congratulations to Zoast for getting a 28!!!
My name is 4N6/Forensics.
Quote from Marlie Tang:
And that says nothing. I made a video for you to watch and learn he never asked that I help he just said I had bad explanations or something ridiculous so that is how I responded. And then SRL still refuses to give credit to a person who helped expand the game and find out what is possible on console. No one reached out for help you just criticized and shunned me from your community.
If someone asked for help I would have gladly given some advice.
Quote from lxx4xNx6xxl:
Quote from Marlie Tang:
And that says nothing. I made a video for you to watch and learn he never asked that I help he just said I had bad explanations or something ridiculous so that is how I responded. And then SRL still refuses to give credit to a person who helped expand the game and find out what is possible on console. No one reached out for help you just criticized and shunned me from your community.
If someone asked for help I would have gladly given some advice.
1/ The pastebin does say a lot.
2/ "SRL still refuses to give credit to a person who helped expand the game..." Please don't get SRL into this, we (SRL) have absolutely nothing to do with whatever you're talking about in your post.
My name is 4N6/Forensics.
Quote from Kirua:
Quote from lxx4xNx6xxl:
Quote from Marlie Tang:
And that says nothing. I made a video for you to watch and learn he never asked that I help he just said I had bad explanations or something ridiculous so that is how I responded. And then SRL still refuses to give credit to a person who helped expand the game and find out what is possible on console. No one reached out for help you just criticized and shunned me from your community.
If someone asked for help I would have gladly given some advice.
1/ The pastebin does say a lot.
2/ "SRL still refuses to give credit to a person who helped expand the game..." Please don't get SRL into this, we (SRL) have absolutely nothing to do with whatever you're talking about in your post.
My mistake most people in the Super Metroid SRL community.
Quote from Garrison:
edit: sorry that was mean and this is a new year. I wish everyone well
And that is where the badmouthing started and still continues.
I see you edited your post and I accept your apology.
Good Luck to everyone who runs this game I look forward to seeing how far this game goes.
Maybe you won't see me as the bad guy anymore. I never really was it was just a misconception.
My name is 4N6/Forensics.
Quote from Marlie Tang:
well in other news it's Arbitrary to fight bosses in "any%" when you can skip them I mean I thought speedrunning was about going fast haha what is this a zelda community or something lemme make a tweet about it and vent in my +s channel
Well yea you can skip them now in Glitched which I find truly amazing, well done to those who found out how to apply it to console!!!
Quote from Marlie Tang:
well in other news it's Arbitrary to fight bosses in "any%" when you can skip them I mean I thought speedrunning was about going fast haha what is this a zelda community or something lemme make a tweet about it and vent in my +s channel
how do you manage to get this defensive in a thread that has nothing to do with alttp
Quote from Vulajin:
That's enough bullshit. If you want to discuss Super Metroid and Super Metroid speedruns, feel free to post here. If you want to discuss anything else, you have the entire rest of the internet to do it.
I agree with your post. This thread should've become the discussion of the "new" route any% ages ago after Behemoth's 43:48. I remember doing a lengthy explanation about a theory TAS run I did, on page 10 of this very same thread, and no one posted anything further.
My previous post can be easily refutable on some points but that is precisely the point of discussing the game. It's incredible how a popular game to speed run with a "new" console route doesn't have the same level of discussion in SDA like other games have. The problem I see here is a divided community where some players prefer to discuss the game with the immediacy of chat system and others prefer to do it on forums, both having their pros and cons. Maybe for some runners posting on the forums is not necessary because most things are self explanatory, but that doesn't prevent people from sharing a bit of knowledge in regards to a particular trick, as well as us joining the stream to share tips like I've done in recent times.
Since Behemoth doesn't stream, this thread should be also used for people to join in to ask stuff or to send each other tips and suggestions to improve this hard but cool route and so as to not create any more disdain among the runners, and that way people can know about everyone's progress. People have to engage and be interested in this and join the discussion instead of merely being viewers w/o anything constructive to say. There's a hot thread here on SDA about its future, (which can be found here:)
https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/the_future_of_sda75.html
and some of the major points discussed that I agree with is that the forums are still a valuable medium to document the discussion of a game with exact dates and posters involved, along with any tips and discoveries by the contributors. That way anyone who doesn't know about particular group channels can come here and browse the forums, which contain a lot of history of the progress of a particular game.
Regarding this new run, it's too early to have an opinion of who deserves wrs when this route is fairly new for console any% and hasn't reached the level of optimization the previous one had. Discussion about the game or the route should remain positive from now on.
sukusuku hakutaku
so.. why does absolutely no one know anything about potential differences between VC and SNES? like smokey said, you'd think one of the most praised fucking games in the community would have it's shit figured out
behemoth is the only VC runner i know of, and the fact that theres yet another layer of mystery on his activities is just unbelievable to me
sry 4 mad
behemoth is the only VC runner i know of, and the fact that theres yet another layer of mystery on his activities is just unbelievable to me
sry 4 mad
I'm not sure about technical specifications in relation to how the game performs on VC vs SNES, but what about the Classic Controller? If that's a modern controller that surpasses the SNES controller in terms of quality (dpad and shoulder buttons especially) then I'm truly jealous. I don't think it would make that big of a difference, but it wouldn't hurt either. Does anyone have any comments on that controller versus a pristine SNES controller?
I personally think the SFC controller is the best ever made. It can be a little easy to angle on the d-pad which will break Samus out of a wall climb though, which I don't think the classic does as easily. The shoulder buttons on the classic are really mushy though.
Are there any differences in the VC version? It's essentially an emulator, and it runs fast, which means it can't be doing perfect emulation, since BSNES has proven it takes a crazy amount of horse power to achieve. I haven't noticed any and there is still slowdown in the normal spots, iirc, but I'm not a top tier runner and probably wouldn't notice some things others might. I find the VC version harder to run due to the input lag, but I'm sure that's something you can get used to.
There are other communities that accept VC runs too, right? Have there been discussions for those games too? It would be interesting to see their findings.
Are there any differences in the VC version? It's essentially an emulator, and it runs fast, which means it can't be doing perfect emulation, since BSNES has proven it takes a crazy amount of horse power to achieve. I haven't noticed any and there is still slowdown in the normal spots, iirc, but I'm not a top tier runner and probably wouldn't notice some things others might. I find the VC version harder to run due to the input lag, but I'm sure that's something you can get used to.
There are other communities that accept VC runs too, right? Have there been discussions for those games too? It would be interesting to see their findings.
#FailFish
Quote from narshe:
The shoulder buttons on the classic are really mushy though.
This.
However, the classic controller PRO has perfect shoulder buttons. I found any game that required heavy use of L&R to be unplayable on the classic, but the pro gets back to almost the exact feel of the SNES controller. The buttons have a very tight and crisp feel as well. I would encourage staying far away from the wii classic, but if you want to play VC, the pro is an incredibly smooth transition from SNES.
They did make SFC controllers for Wii, but they can be pretty pricy.
The dpad on the classic controller is really bad in my experience. The fact that behemoth can walljump with any consistency on that thing let alone have as good of movement as he possesses is amazing to me. As far as actual differences goes there are some lag differences specifically in the kraid room and the room after motherbrain that are always lag free. Aside from that, nothing else in terms of lag ever made itself apparent to me when I would switch back and forth. I do believe the wii runs at a slightly different framerate overall, but I'm not really qualified to comment beyond that. Ultimately I don't think the version differences add up to enough to make any sort of impactful difference between the two platforms, but it would still be neat to know absolutes at some point. That's just my take on it, I'm not going to test anything myself and I'm more or less done speedrunning entirely so if people are going to make calls like that they should really get more evidence first. Peace all
The classic controller has been a natural process of adaptation over the years is all. The d pad and shoulder buttons are crummy but considering I don't have angle down (L button mapped to items) and R button is reserved for occasional arm pumping and stationary shots they don't get much use from me. I use the very tip of my thumb to perform all movement on the d pad, as well as ledge grabbing is done on it also. I don't have particularly big fingers so this probably helps. In the past things like wall jumping was a pain with spin breaking but you get used to it with very severe practice. Of course it can still fuck up. This is the reason i ledge grab the main Crateria shaft instead of wall jumping, as my wall jumps seemed to let me down all too often in the last few years. I've never looked back and it isn't really any slower or faster than my previous wall jump technique for that room when I compare the two, if anything my ledge grabs come out faster. It depends on the player ultimately though, as everybody wall jumps a bit differently.
Regarding the differences between VC and console. More or less what Garrison said !. Though I'm not sure about which room after MB. The room directly to the left after leaving her room ?. As for Kraid, I have heard about the lag differences from a few people for some time, and lately I kinda suspected there is a little difference here, so me and Reeve done some tests:
We found that there are many patterns you can be given which are set from what frame you enter the door, however these are generally either fast or slow, and the difference between the two is about 80 frames. On VC I believe these patterns to be the same however the lag is affected differently. The fast pattern seems to be about 0.7 seconds faster than a fast pattern on console, while a slow pattern is about 1 second faster than a slow pattern on console. So it's possible to be up to around 1.7 seconds faster on VC if you get a fast pattern and compare it to a slow pattern on console (which is where the original figure of 2 second advantage probably comes from).
I should probably add that my results are not pin point perfect as they were timed with a stopwatch app as accurately as I could using many speed runs from top runners that favoured different Kraid patterns, but the results would not be too far off.
Regarding the differences between VC and console. More or less what Garrison said !. Though I'm not sure about which room after MB. The room directly to the left after leaving her room ?. As for Kraid, I have heard about the lag differences from a few people for some time, and lately I kinda suspected there is a little difference here, so me and Reeve done some tests:
We found that there are many patterns you can be given which are set from what frame you enter the door, however these are generally either fast or slow, and the difference between the two is about 80 frames. On VC I believe these patterns to be the same however the lag is affected differently. The fast pattern seems to be about 0.7 seconds faster than a fast pattern on console, while a slow pattern is about 1 second faster than a slow pattern on console. So it's possible to be up to around 1.7 seconds faster on VC if you get a fast pattern and compare it to a slow pattern on console (which is where the original figure of 2 second advantage probably comes from).
I should probably add that my results are not pin point perfect as they were timed with a stopwatch app as accurately as I could using many speed runs from top runners that favoured different Kraid patterns, but the results would not be too far off.
My name is 4N6/Forensics.
Quote from narshe:
I personally think the SFC controller is the best ever made. It can be a little easy to angle on the d-pad which will break Samus out of a wall climb though, which I don't think the classic does as easily. The shoulder buttons on the classic are really mushy though.
Are there any differences in the VC version? It's essentially an emulator, and it runs fast, which means it can't be doing perfect emulation, since BSNES has proven it takes a crazy amount of horse power to achieve. I haven't noticed any and there is still slowdown in the normal spots, iirc, but I'm not a top tier runner and probably wouldn't notice some things others might. I find the VC version harder to run due to the input lag, but I'm sure that's something you can get used to.
There are other communities that accept VC runs too, right? Have there been discussions for those games too? It would be interesting to see their findings.
Are there any differences in the VC version? It's essentially an emulator, and it runs fast, which means it can't be doing perfect emulation, since BSNES has proven it takes a crazy amount of horse power to achieve. I haven't noticed any and there is still slowdown in the normal spots, iirc, but I'm not a top tier runner and probably wouldn't notice some things others might. I find the VC version harder to run due to the input lag, but I'm sure that's something you can get used to.
There are other communities that accept VC runs too, right? Have there been discussions for those games too? It would be interesting to see their findings.
I personally like the Classic Controller Pro better then the SNES Controller.
Quote from Antilles58:
Quote from narshe:
The shoulder buttons on the classic are really mushy though.
This.
However, the classic controller PRO has perfect shoulder buttons. I found any game that required heavy use of L&R to be unplayable on the classic, but the pro gets back to almost the exact feel of the SNES controller. The buttons have a very tight and crisp feel as well. I would encourage staying far away from the wii classic, but if you want to play VC, the pro is an incredibly smooth transition from SNES.
They did make SFC controllers for Wii, but they can be pretty pricy.
Yea they are pricey I have one though just for the collection. Its worth it if you don't like the Classic Controller or the Classic Controller Pro.
Quote from Garrison:
The dpad on the classic controller is really bad in my experience. The fact that behemoth can walljump with any consistency on that thing let alone have as good of movement as he possesses is amazing to me. As far as actual differences goes there are some lag differences specifically in the kraid room and the room after motherbrain that are always lag free. Aside from that, nothing else in terms of lag ever made itself apparent to me when I would switch back and forth. I do believe the wii runs at a slightly different framerate overall, but I'm not really qualified to comment beyond that. Ultimately I don't think the version differences add up to enough to make any sort of impactful difference between the two platforms, but it would still be neat to know absolutes at some point. That's just my take on it, I'm not going to test anything myself and I'm more or less done speedrunning entirely so if people are going to make calls like that they should really get more evidence first. Peace all
Well said.
Quote from giganotabehemoth87:
The classic controller has been a natural process of adaptation over the years is all. The d pad and shoulder buttons are crummy but considering I don't have angle down (L button mapped to items) and R button is reserved for occasional arm pumping and stationary shots they don't get much use from me. I use the very tip of my thumb to perform all movement on the d pad, as well as ledge grabbing is done on it also. I don't have particularly big fingers so this probably helps. In the past things like wall jumping was a pain with spin breaking but you get used to it with very severe practice. Of course it can still fuck up. This is the reason i ledge grab the main Crateria shaft instead of wall jumping, as my wall jumps seemed to let me down all too often in the last few years. I've never looked back and it isn't really any slower or faster than my previous wall jump technique for that room when I compare the two, if anything my ledge grabs come out faster. It depends on the player ultimately though, as everybody wall jumps a bit differently.
Regarding the differences between VC and console. More or less what Garrison said !. Though I'm not sure about which room after MB. The room directly to the left after leaving her room ?. As for Kraid, I have heard about the lag differences from a few people for some time, and lately I kinda suspected there is a little difference here, so me and Reeve done some tests:
We found that there are many patterns you can be given which are set from what frame you enter the door, however these are generally either fast or slow, and the difference between the two is about 80 frames. On VC I believe these patterns to be the same however the lag is affected differently. The fast pattern seems to be about 0.7 seconds faster than a fast pattern on console, while a slow pattern is about 1 second faster than a slow pattern on console. So it's possible to be up to around 1.7 seconds faster on VC if you get a fast pattern and compare it to a slow pattern on console (which is where the original figure of 2 second advantage probably comes from).
I should probably add that my results are not pin point perfect as they were timed with a stopwatch app as accurately as I could using many speed runs from top runners that favoured different Kraid patterns, but the results would not be too far off.
Regarding the differences between VC and console. More or less what Garrison said !. Though I'm not sure about which room after MB. The room directly to the left after leaving her room ?. As for Kraid, I have heard about the lag differences from a few people for some time, and lately I kinda suspected there is a little difference here, so me and Reeve done some tests:
We found that there are many patterns you can be given which are set from what frame you enter the door, however these are generally either fast or slow, and the difference between the two is about 80 frames. On VC I believe these patterns to be the same however the lag is affected differently. The fast pattern seems to be about 0.7 seconds faster than a fast pattern on console, while a slow pattern is about 1 second faster than a slow pattern on console. So it's possible to be up to around 1.7 seconds faster on VC if you get a fast pattern and compare it to a slow pattern on console (which is where the original figure of 2 second advantage probably comes from).
I should probably add that my results are not pin point perfect as they were timed with a stopwatch app as accurately as I could using many speed runs from top runners that favoured different Kraid patterns, but the results would not be too far off.
Also well said.