[SNES] Super Metroid

lxx4xNx6xxl

2015-02-15 11:09:15 am

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

Quote from giganotabehemoth87:

Would it be possible for you to provide an smv of this on snes9x 1.52 ?

You trying to take me out of retirement Behemoth? Also what exactly are you referring to?

Smokey

2015-02-15 11:11:05 am

Quote from lxx4xNx6xxl:

So you stand at the edge and wait for Draygon to swoop at you and pump him full of Missiles and Super Missiles and then drop on the last Super Missile and start a Short Charge then immediately jump and spark to the left on his next swoop for a Blue Suit. So you can hear if Draygon shoots Gunk so if you hear that you can go right into the fastest method. I haven't fully refined the strategy but, I'm sure it can be a consistent strategy down the road.

I'm not sure how familiar you're with the new route (ws-ln), but I personally don't know how beneficial it would be to have less supers for Tourian after Draygon, since at this point the farming is very reduced. Is this Draygon strat for the in-game time route you mentioned? Yeah, it would be cool if you could provide a .smv of it.

giganotabehemoth87

2015-02-15 11:11:31 am

lol, no it would just be easier to see this in action, it's the draygon strat you speak of. Then we can know know what exactly to do when we get there in the savestate t run.

lxx4xNx6xxl

Edit history:

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-15 11:15:19 am

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-15 11:14:51 am

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-15 11:14:29 am

2015-02-15 11:13:51 am

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

Can you provide me with an smv for it that hits Draygon with all the power wave combo and has a gunk pattern. Make sure you have some Super Missiles and Missiles.

Also 1.52 is fine.

lxx4xNx6xxl

Edit history:

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-15 11:50:10 am

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-15 11:49:51 am

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-15 11:32:34 am

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-15 11:31:51 am

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-15 11:25:42 am

2015-02-15 11:24:46 am

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

I meant a swoop pattern. So use to saying gunk pattern, my bad man. Mind you the Shine Spark has to be pretty fast because it will involve a double swoop. Get ready to be amazed!!!

Forcing me out of retirement you bastard.

EDIT:

I will do it probably later tomorrow if you provide an .smv file. My friend came over to play some Halo 2 with me and Snuffit86.

Also I was just messing around with Super Metroid on the X-Box One Controller its pretty nice. I wonder if there is an adapter for the wii.

lxx4xNx6xxl

Edit history:

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-16 02:18:04 pm

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-16 02:16:48 pm

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-16 02:16:29 pm

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-16 01:19:55 pm

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-16 03:47:09 am

2015-02-16 03:46:41 am

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

Here, enjoy the show!!!

Its hard but, I think it could be consistent. Also I hit him with an extra Super Missile just to manipulate his pattern. I could have done it with 3 Missiles and 1 Super Missiles. Possibly just 3-4 Missiles. Again this is just a Demonstration Video for reference.

Its on 1.52 like you asked.

Attachment:

DraygonQuickest3Round.smv

giganotabehemoth87

2015-02-17 06:25:35 pm

I really like the strat 4N6. At first I had trouble with knowing what Draygon is going to do, gunk or swoop so i decided to use music cue instead which works perfectly. If he does do a gunk pattern you can do this strat for 2 rounds in the smv attached. Providing you got good particles to connect and optimal sparks then this will work. I don't know if you know but both the 3 rounder and it's variant 2 rounder in the smv are about 3 seconds faster than the old 2 rounder !. The downside is that it uses some supers on a route that already has problems managing them in preparation for Tourian. The last problem is if draygon decides to fire gunk on round 3 when you want him to swoop fast. It's easy to fire the spark blindly hoping that he will swoop, and if you do you will get grabbed. If you do manage to hold back and run over to him to spark him, for some reason the game doesn't give you blue suit.

Attachment:

draygon.smv

lxx4xNx6xxl

Edit history:

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-17 07:08:42 pm

2015-02-17 06:38:55 pm

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

Quote from giganotabehemoth87:

I really like the strat 4N6. At first I had trouble with knowing what Draygon is going to do, gunk or swoop so i decided to use music cue instead which works perfectly. If he does do a gunk pattern you can do this strat for 2 rounds in the smv attached. Providing you got good particles to connect and optimal sparks then this will work. I don't know if you know but both the 3 rounder and it's variant 2 rounder in the smv are about 3 seconds faster than the old 2 rounder !. The downside is that it uses some supers on a route that already has problems managing them in preparation for Tourian. The last problem is if draygon decides to fire gunk on round 3 when you want him to swoop fast. It's easy to fire the spark blindly hoping that he will swoop, and if you do you will get grabbed. If you do manage to hold back and run over to him to spark him, for some reason the game doesn't give you blue suit.

Yea, I was wondering why myself? Apparently you have to Shine Spark him in the back in order to get the Blue Suit for the Gunk 3 Rounder. I guess we can just mark this off as a 100% strategy?

I know the fastest 2 rounder was but, I didn't realize the 3 rounder was that much faster.

[quote="giganotabehemoth87"]I really like the strat 4N6. At first I had trouble with knowing what Draygon is going to do, gunk or swoop so i decided to use music cue instead which works perfectly. If he does do a gunk pattern you can do this strat for 2 rounds in the smv attached. Providing you got good particles to connect and optimal sparks then this will work.  I don't know if you know but both the 3 rounder and it's variant 2 rounder in the smv are about 3 seconds faster than the old 2 rounder !. The downside is that it uses some supers on a route that already has problems managing them in preparation for Tourian. The last problem is if draygon decides to fire gunk on round 3 when you want him to swoop fast. It's easy to fire the spark blindly hoping that he will swoop, and if you do you will get grabbed. If you do manage to hold back and run over to him to spark him, for some reason the game doesn't give you blue suit.[/quote]

Yea, I was wondering why myself? Apparently you have to Shine Spark him in the back in order to get the Blue Suit for the Gunk 3 Rounder. I guess we can just mark this off as a 100% strategy?

I know the fastest 2 rounder was but, I didn't realize the 3 rounder was that much faster.

just_defend

2015-02-17 09:15:29 pm

Quote from lxx4xNx6xxl:

Speaking of Routes. I've been wondering about a In-Game Time Route but, since I am retired I never bothered testing it.

Wrecked Ship - Upper Norfair - Maridia - Plasma - Kraid Kill with Plasma Beam like in Saturns RBO TAS (Definitely looks possible) also speed booster and Space Jump make this interesting - Ice Beam - Ridley - Tourian

If someone would TAS this that would be great and very much appreciated!!!

Ever since the new WS-LN route first shown off, I've been interested in trying out a route like this and exploring other ideas. So I've tried my hand at making a theory tas of this, using most of the current strats that I've seen and have heard discussed from various runners.

The results aren't astounding, as I figured they wouldn't be, but I thought it would be good to put this out there for reference. This TAS clocks in at 00:28 game time and around 42:59 real time, which is about a minute slower than the old route theory TAS by Dessy and more than two minutes slower than the WS-LN theory TAS by Reeve. So needless to say, not very optimal and I wouldn't recommend it for RTAs, but I'll give a little analysis of my work.

At first, I tried the route without wave beam and surprisingly the results came out almost the same and you can barely achieve a :28 game time (around 28:5x is what I got, looking at the RAM address and calculating the frames). However, unless another method for the big metroid skip is found without shooting, you're looking at an 8 jump skip at the least. So the benefit of having wave beam there is strong, as well as in many other rooms where shooting doors open helps maintain your speed obviously.

So, this theory TAS route grabs wave beam, does a two round phantoon, and I tried not to do too many machine-like movements. I'm fairly new to TASing so it's a bit unpolished; I did have to cheat harder to get the ball boost leaving lower norfair so that part sticks out like sore thumb. Anyway, enjoy: https://archive.org/details/SMWSMR

Here's the smv as well, use snes9x 1.51, same as reeve's.

[quote="lxx4xNx6xxl"]Speaking of Routes. I've been wondering about a In-Game Time Route but, since I am retired I never bothered testing it.

Wrecked Ship - Upper Norfair - Maridia - Plasma - Kraid Kill with Plasma Beam like in Saturns RBO TAS (Definitely looks possible) also speed booster and Space Jump make this interesting - Ice Beam - Ridley - Tourian
 
If someone would TAS this that would be great and very much appreciated!!![/quote]

Ever since the new WS-LN route first shown off, I've been interested in trying out a route like this and exploring other ideas. So I've tried my hand at making a theory tas of this, using most of the current strats that I've seen and have heard discussed from various runners.

The results aren't astounding, as I figured they wouldn't be, but I thought it would be good to put this out there for reference. This TAS clocks in at 00:28 game time and around 42:59 real time, which is about a minute slower than the old route theory TAS by Dessy and more than two minutes slower than the WS-LN theory TAS by Reeve. So needless to say, not very optimal and I wouldn't recommend it for RTAs, but I'll give a little analysis of my work.

At first, I tried the route without wave beam and surprisingly the results came out almost the same and you can barely achieve a :28 game time (around 28:5x is what I got, looking at the RAM address and calculating the frames). However, unless another method for the big metroid skip is found without shooting, you're looking at an 8 jump skip at the least. So the benefit of having wave beam there is strong, as well as in many other rooms where shooting doors open helps maintain your speed obviously.

So, this theory TAS route grabs wave beam, does a two round phantoon, and I tried not to do too many machine-like movements. I'm fairly new to TASing so it's a bit unpolished; I did have to cheat harder to get the ball boost leaving lower norfair so that part sticks out like sore thumb. Anyway, enjoy: [url]https://archive.org/details/SMWSMR[/url]

Here's the smv as well, use snes9x 1.51, same as reeve's.

Attachment:

SM.smv

lxx4xNx6xxl

2015-02-17 10:42:11 pm

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

Quote from just_defend:

Quote from lxx4xNx6xxl:

Speaking of Routes. I've been wondering about a In-Game Time Route but, since I am retired I never bothered testing it.

Wrecked Ship - Upper Norfair - Maridia - Plasma - Kraid Kill with Plasma Beam like in Saturns RBO TAS (Definitely looks possible) also speed booster and Space Jump make this interesting - Ice Beam - Ridley - Tourian

If someone would TAS this that would be great and very much appreciated!!!

Ever since the new WS-LN route first shown off, I've been interested in trying out a route like this and exploring other ideas. So I've tried my hand at making a theory tas of this, using most of the current strats that I've seen and have heard discussed from various runners.

The results aren't astounding, as I figured they wouldn't be, but I thought it would be good to put this out there for reference. This TAS clocks in at 00:28 game time and around 42:59 real time, which is about a minute slower than the old route theory TAS by Dessy and more than two minutes slower than the WS-LN theory TAS by Reeve. So needless to say, not very optimal and I wouldn't recommend it for RTAs, but I'll give a little analysis of my work.

At first, I tried the route without wave beam and surprisingly the results came out almost the same and you can barely achieve a :28 game time (around 28:5x is what I got, looking at the RAM address and calculating the frames). However, unless another method for the big metroid skip is found without shooting, you're looking at an 8 jump skip at the least. So the benefit of having wave beam there is strong, as well as in many other rooms where shooting doors open helps maintain your speed obviously.

So, this theory TAS route grabs wave beam, does a two round phantoon, and I tried not to do too many machine-like movements. I'm fairly new to TASing so it's a bit unpolished; I did have to cheat harder to get the ball boost leaving lower norfair so that part sticks out like sore thumb. Anyway, enjoy: https://archive.org/details/SMWSMR

Here's the smv as well, use snes9x 1.51, same as reeve's.

Thank you for testing this, I truly appreciate the time you took to do it.

There are some faster methods that could have been done as far as strategies but, overall you did fine job considering its a Theory TAS.

[quote="just_defend"][quote="lxx4xNx6xxl"]Speaking of Routes. I've been wondering about a In-Game Time Route but, since I am retired I never bothered testing it.

Wrecked Ship - Upper Norfair - Maridia - Plasma - Kraid Kill with Plasma Beam like in Saturns RBO TAS (Definitely looks possible) also speed booster and Space Jump make this interesting - Ice Beam - Ridley - Tourian
 
If someone would TAS this that would be great and very much appreciated!!![/quote]

Ever since the new WS-LN route first shown off, I've been interested in trying out a route like this and exploring other ideas. So I've tried my hand at making a theory tas of this, using most of the current strats that I've seen and have heard discussed from various runners.

The results aren't astounding, as I figured they wouldn't be, but I thought it would be good to put this out there for reference. This TAS clocks in at 00:28 game time and around 42:59 real time, which is about a minute slower than the old route theory TAS by Dessy and more than two minutes slower than the WS-LN theory TAS by Reeve. So needless to say, not very optimal and I wouldn't recommend it for RTAs, but I'll give a little analysis of my work.

At first, I tried the route without wave beam and surprisingly the results came out almost the same and you can barely achieve a :28 game time (around 28:5x is what I got, looking at the RAM address and calculating the frames). However, unless another method for the big metroid skip is found without shooting, you're looking at an 8 jump skip at the least. So the benefit of having wave beam there is strong, as well as in many other rooms where shooting doors open helps maintain your speed obviously.

So, this theory TAS route grabs wave beam, does a two round phantoon, and I tried not to do too many machine-like movements. I'm fairly new to TASing so it's a bit unpolished; I did have to cheat harder to get the ball boost leaving lower norfair so that part sticks out like sore thumb. Anyway, enjoy: [url]https://archive.org/details/SMWSMR[/url]

Here's the smv as well, use snes9x 1.51, same as reeve's.[/quote]

Thank you for testing this, I truly appreciate the time you took to do it.

There are some faster methods that could have been done as far as strategies but, overall you did fine job considering its a Theory TAS.

Smokey

Edit history:

Smokey: 2015-02-18 10:11:14 am

Smokey: 2015-02-18 09:15:59 am

2015-02-18 09:09:40 am

Quote from just_defend:

Ever since the new WS-LN route first shown off, I've been interested in trying out a route like this and exploring other ideas. So I've tried my hand at making a theory tas of this, using most of the current strats that I've seen and have heard discussed from various runners.

The results aren't astounding, as I figured they wouldn't be, but I thought it would be good to put this out there for reference. This TAS clocks in at 00:28 game time and around 42:59 real time, which is about a minute slower than the old route theory TAS by Dessy and more than two minutes slower than the WS-LN theory TAS by Reeve. So needless to say, not very optimal and I wouldn't recommend it for RTAs, but I'll give a little analysis of my work.

At first, I tried the route without wave beam and surprisingly the results came out almost the same and you can barely achieve a :28 game time (around 28:5x is what I got, looking at the RAM address and calculating the frames). However, unless another method for the big metroid skip is found without shooting, you're looking at an 8 jump skip at the least. So the benefit of having wave beam there is strong, as well as in many other rooms where shooting doors open helps maintain your speed obviously.

So, this theory TAS route grabs wave beam, does a two round phantoon, and I tried not to do too many machine-like movements. I'm fairly new to TASing so it's a bit unpolished; I did have to cheat harder to get the ball boost leaving lower norfair so that part sticks out like sore thumb. Anyway, enjoy: https://archive.org/details/SMWSMR

Here's the smv as well, use snes9x 1.51, same as reeve's.

Thanks for testing this. When we were testing/comparing ws-ln to other routes we also did this route (well, I did) as part of the possible routes you can do for early WS but we weren't happy with the result as at that time I was still playing the game on a ps/2 keyboard and was also done on snes9x 1.43, which is a more inaccurate emu. It was early WS only that it kind of rejoins the old route, but in my TAS I killed Kraid last, which I now think it's a sub-optimal (route-wise) decision. Looking at RAM addresses for in-game time it sat at a very low 22:0x at golden 4 (which was very similar to yours) but I didn't care to complete the run as ws-ln was winning by a very large margin up to that point.

I know you did this with RTA in mind but now that we know the route is actually favorable for in-game I really think that if someone cares to do/test an in-game time route, this one can be used but with many old in-game time strats (less perfect door shifts, does gravity jumps, pauses, murder beam?), it might even look close to 28 for console (who knows).

I'll post a theory TAS from Behemoth (early draft, because it can be polished with more optimal strats) which does this same route only with Plasma-Ice beams collected (in-game was a high 27). The beam fires unusually fast and as you said, the metroid skip took way longer. However, this run was also done for RTA in mind and doesn't do any of the old in-game time strats. I'll post it here for reference.

[quote="just_defend"]Ever since the new WS-LN route first shown off, I've been interested in trying out a route like this and exploring other ideas. So I've tried my hand at making a theory tas of this, using most of the current strats that I've seen and have heard discussed from various runners.

The results aren't astounding, as I figured they wouldn't be, but I thought it would be good to put this out there for reference. This TAS clocks in at 00:28 game time and around 42:59 real time, which is about a minute slower than the old route theory TAS by Dessy and more than two minutes slower than the WS-LN theory TAS by Reeve. So needless to say, not very optimal and I wouldn't recommend it for RTAs, but I'll give a little analysis of my work.

At first, I tried the route without wave beam and surprisingly the results came out almost the same and you can barely achieve a :28 game time (around 28:5x is what I got, looking at the RAM address and calculating the frames). However, unless another method for the big metroid skip is found without shooting, you're looking at an 8 jump skip at the least. So the benefit of having wave beam there is strong, as well as in many other rooms where shooting doors open helps maintain your speed obviously.

So, this theory TAS route grabs wave beam, does a two round phantoon, and I tried not to do too many machine-like movements. I'm fairly new to TASing so it's a bit unpolished; I did have to cheat harder to get the ball boost leaving lower norfair so that part sticks out like sore thumb. Anyway, enjoy: [url]https://archive.org/details/SMWSMR[/url]

Here's the smv as well, use snes9x 1.51, same as reeve's.[/quote]

Thanks for testing this. When we were testing/comparing ws-ln to other routes we also did this route (well, I did) as part of the possible routes you can do for early WS but we weren't happy with the result as at that time I was still playing the game on a ps/2 keyboard and was also done on snes9x 1.43, which is a more inaccurate emu. It was early WS only that it kind of rejoins the old route, but in my TAS I killed Kraid last, which I now think it's a sub-optimal (route-wise) decision. Looking at RAM addresses for in-game time it sat at a very low 22:0x at golden 4 (which was very similar to yours) but I didn't care to complete the run as ws-ln was winning by a very large margin up to that point.

I know you did this with RTA in mind but now that we know the route is actually favorable for in-game I really think that if someone cares to do/test an in-game time route, this one can be used but with many old in-game time strats (less perfect door shifts, does gravity jumps, pauses, murder beam?), it might even look close to 28 for console (who knows).

I'll post a theory TAS from Behemoth (early draft, because it can be polished with more optimal strats) which does this same route only with Plasma-Ice beams collected (in-game was a high 27). The beam fires unusually fast and as you said, the metroid skip took way longer. However, this run was also done for RTA in mind and doesn't do any of the old in-game time strats. I'll post it here for reference.

Attachment:

Any% 'TAS' WS First-Current route-Plasma ice 1.43.smv

giganotabehemoth87

2015-02-19 12:09:37 pm

Thanks for doing a savestate run of the route Just_defend. I don't know I think it's clear even with an overhaul of game time strats neither this route or Plasma-ice are beating the old route any time soon.

Quote from lxx4xNx6xxl:

Yea, I was wondering why myself? Apparently you have to Shine Spark him in the back in order to get the Blue Suit for the Gunk 3 Rounder. I guess we can just mark this off as a 100% strategy?

I know the fastest 2 rounder was but, I didn't realize the 3 rounder was that much faster.

There isn't any time to go from the right side of the room, over to the left and over his head and spark the back of the head before you lose your spark, so that idea is out the window. Instead I found this in the smv (1.52). You basically have to 'spot' that he isn't swooping on the fly which can be difficult, but it helps to start running over there and jumping as soon as possible. Once you see that he isn't coming just wait near the center right section of the room until the last few moments of the flash and spark relatively close to him. I think the height of the spark is extremely important here, more so than the others because it means the difference between him dying or surviving with 1 - 2 missiles worth of HP remaining. This particular 3 rounder is also faster than the old 2 rounder by around 30 frames. The whole strat is of course only possible with the best round 1 with good spark + particles, where you get Draygon a distinctively deeper orange color. If you see that Draygon didn't go deeper orange, then just go into the old strat because you won't be able to pull this off. I really like this strat because it theoretically means the fight should never go past round 3. Something which we couldn't always do before. Now the only issue remaining is getting those 2 extra supers from somewhere and hoping it doesn't mess up the management for Tourian.

Yeah the 3 rounder surprised me as well. Gunk rounds are slow and the normal 2 rounder allows him to crawl across the whole room at snail pace.

Thanks for doing a savestate run of the route Just_defend. I don't know I think it's clear even with an overhaul of game time strats neither this route or Plasma-ice are beating the old route any time soon.

[quote="lxx4xNx6xxl"]Yea, I was wondering why myself? Apparently you have to Shine Spark him in the back in order to get the Blue Suit for the Gunk 3 Rounder. I guess we can just mark this off as a 100% strategy?

I know the fastest 2 rounder was but, I didn't realize the 3 rounder was that much faster.[/quote]

There isn't any time to go from the right side of the room, over to the left and over his head and spark the back of the head before you lose your spark, so that idea is out the window. Instead I found this in the smv (1.52). You basically have to 'spot' that he isn't swooping on the fly which can be difficult, but it helps to start running over there and jumping as soon as possible. Once you see that he isn't coming just wait near the center right section of the room until the last few moments of the flash and spark relatively close to him. I think the height of the spark is extremely important here, more so than the others because it means the difference between him dying or surviving with 1 - 2 missiles worth of HP remaining. This particular 3 rounder is also faster than the old 2 rounder by around 30 frames.  The whole strat is of course only possible with the best round 1 with good spark + particles, where you get Draygon a distinctively deeper orange color. If you see that Draygon didn't go deeper orange, then just go into the old strat because you won't be able to pull this off. I really like this strat because it theoretically means the fight should never go past round 3. Something which we couldn't always do before. Now the only issue remaining is getting those 2 extra supers from somewhere and hoping it doesn't mess up the management for Tourian.

Yeah the 3 rounder surprised me as well. Gunk rounds are slow and the normal 2 rounder allows him to crawl across the whole room at snail pace.

Attachment:

draygon 2.smv

lxx4xNx6xxl

Edit history:

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-19 12:58:35 pm

2015-02-19 12:58:06 pm

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

Quote from giganotabehemoth87:

Thanks for doing a savestate run of the route Just_defend. I don't know I think it's clear even with an overhaul of game time strats neither this route or Plasma-ice are beating the old route any time soon.

Quote from lxx4xNx6xxl:

Yea, I was wondering why myself? Apparently you have to Shine Spark him in the back in order to get the Blue Suit for the Gunk 3 Rounder. I guess we can just mark this off as a 100% strategy?

I know the fastest 2 rounder was but, I didn't realize the 3 rounder was that much faster.

There isn't any time to go from the right side of the room, over to the left and over his head and spark the back of the head before you lose your spark, so that idea is out the window. Instead I found this in the smv (1.52). You basically have to 'spot' that he isn't swooping on the fly which can be difficult, but it helps to start running over there and jumping as soon as possible. Once you see that he isn't coming just wait near the center right section of the room until the last few moments of the flash and spark relatively close to him. I think the height of the spark is extremely important here, more so than the others because it means the difference between him dying or surviving with 1 - 2 missiles worth of HP remaining. This particular 3 rounder is also faster than the old 2 rounder by around 30 frames. The whole strat is of course only possible with the best round 1 with good spark + particles, where you get Draygon a distinctively deeper orange color. If you see that Draygon didn't go deeper orange, then just go into the old strat because you won't be able to pull this off. I really like this strat because it theoretically means the fight should never go past round 3. Something which we couldn't always do before. Now the only issue remaining is getting those 2 extra supers from somewhere and hoping it doesn't mess up the management for Tourian.

Yeah the 3 rounder surprised me as well. Gunk rounds are slow and the normal 2 rounder allows him to crawl across the whole room at snail pace.

I meant to short charge again for the third gunk. Sorry I forgot to mention that. We could probably mark this off as a 100% strategy I guess.

Whats the smv?

[quote="giganotabehemoth87"]Thanks for doing a savestate run of the route Just_defend. I don't know I think it's clear even with an overhaul of game time strats neither this route or Plasma-ice are beating the old route any time soon.

[quote="lxx4xNx6xxl"]Yea, I was wondering why myself? Apparently you have to Shine Spark him in the back in order to get the Blue Suit for the Gunk 3 Rounder. I guess we can just mark this off as a 100% strategy?

I know the fastest 2 rounder was but, I didn't realize the 3 rounder was that much faster.[/quote]

There isn't any time to go from the right side of the room, over to the left and over his head and spark the back of the head before you lose your spark, so that idea is out the window. Instead I found this in the smv (1.52). You basically have to 'spot' that he isn't swooping on the fly which can be difficult, but it helps to start running over there and jumping as soon as possible. Once you see that he isn't coming just wait near the center right section of the room until the last few moments of the flash and spark relatively close to him. I think the height of the spark is extremely important here, more so than the others because it means the difference between him dying or surviving with 1 - 2 missiles worth of HP remaining. This particular 3 rounder is also faster than the old 2 rounder by around 30 frames.  The whole strat is of course only possible with the best round 1 with good spark + particles, where you get Draygon a distinctively deeper orange color. If you see that Draygon didn't go deeper orange, then just go into the old strat because you won't be able to pull this off. I really like this strat because it theoretically means the fight should never go past round 3. Something which we couldn't always do before. Now the only issue remaining is getting those 2 extra supers from somewhere and hoping it doesn't mess up the management for Tourian.

Yeah the 3 rounder surprised me as well. Gunk rounds are slow and the normal 2 rounder allows him to crawl across the whole room at snail pace.[/quote]

I meant to short charge again for the third gunk. Sorry I forgot to mention that. We could probably mark this off as a 100% strategy I guess.

Whats the smv?

giganotabehemoth87

2015-02-19 02:18:47 pm

You can get a short charge over there a but a spark to the back of the head still doesn't get a blue suit. I don't understand the conditions for this. So what you can do is run into him and jump over his head in the same direction as him and turn mid air to spark his face for a blue suit. My smv contains the same spark but done from the remaining flash time from the round 2 short charge.

lxx4xNx6xxl

2015-02-19 10:54:43 pm

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

Quote from giganotabehemoth87:

You can get a short charge over there a but a spark to the back of the head still doesn't get a blue suit. I don't understand the conditions for this. So what you can do is run into him and jump over his head in the same direction as him and turn mid air to spark his face for a blue suit. My smv contains the same spark but done from the remaining flash time from the round 2 short charge.

That's weird because it Blue Suited for me when I did it. Why doesn't it Blue Suit sometimes I wonder?

giganotabehemoth87

2015-02-20 06:17:14 am

I think it could be when you spark into a piece of gunk after killing draygon but i'm not sure about that. It's best to avoid the risk and spark his head from the front, whether it's from the short charge from round 2 and waiting till Draygon drops down a little or doing an extra short charge like you said but do a big jump back over him. You're achieving the same thing with both with probably equal time.

Btw I find a consistent way to get at least 2 - 3 particles to connect for a second P/W combo in round two for when he swoops. This would eliminate the supers management problem. But it leaves a big problem for if Draygon decides to do a gunk round 2, since you'd have particles flying about the place and won't connect to his belly with the gunk blocking it.

lxx4xNx6xxl

2015-02-20 11:24:58 pm

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

Quote from giganotabehemoth87:

I think it could be when you spark into a piece of gunk after killing draygon but i'm not sure about that. It's best to avoid the risk and spark his head from the front, whether it's from the short charge from round 2 and waiting till Draygon drops down a little or doing an extra short charge like you said but do a big jump back over him. You're achieving the same thing with both with probably equal time.

Btw I find a consistent way to get at least 2 - 3 particles to connect for a second P/W combo in round two for when he swoops. This would eliminate the supers management problem. But it leaves a big problem for if Draygon decides to do a gunk round 2, since you'd have particles flying about the place and won't connect to his belly with the gunk blocking it.

I think your right about the Gunk thing. I'm pretty sure that has something to do with it. Anyway I've Shine Spark him in the back and got a Blue Suit more times then not maybe its just random for all I know.

Can I see an smv of it I was thinking about that just wasn't sure if it would be consistent. Also your spark probably makes it more likely because of the Reduced Shine Spark Crash Animation Glitch.

[quote="giganotabehemoth87"]I think it could be when you spark into a piece of gunk after killing draygon but i'm not sure about that. It's best to avoid the risk and spark his head from the front, whether it's from the short charge from round 2 and waiting till Draygon drops down a little or doing an extra short charge like you said but do a big jump back over him. You're achieving the same thing with both with probably equal time.

Btw I find a consistent way to get at least 2 - 3 particles to connect for a second P/W combo in round two for when he swoops. This would eliminate the supers management problem. But it leaves a big problem for if Draygon decides to do a gunk round 2, since you'd have particles flying about the place and won't connect to his belly with the gunk blocking it.[/quote]

I think your right about the Gunk thing. I'm pretty sure that has something to do with it. Anyway I've Shine Spark him in the back and got a Blue Suit more times then not maybe its just random for all I know.

Can I see an smv of it I was thinking about that just wasn't sure if it would be consistent. Also your spark probably makes it more likely because of the Reduced Shine Spark Crash Animation Glitch.

giganotabehemoth87

2015-02-21 07:06:08 am

It's certainly consistent if we could know for sure that draygon will swoop in round 2. There's in fact many places you can x factor him. You can even do it further to the right and still get back to the left to start a short charge to the right. Also with this version it could be possible to stay over there if draygon fires gunk and possibly connect some particles before short charging left for a killing spark. I've gotten that to work a few times but it was just a fluke.

Attachments:

Draygon Xfac#2 (alt).smv

Draygon Xfac#2.smv

lxx4xNx6xxl

Edit history:

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-21 07:44:12 am

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-21 07:43:47 am

2015-02-21 07:33:48 am

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

Quote from giganotabehemoth87:

It's certainly consistent if we could know for sure that draygon will swoop in round 2. There's in fact many places you can x factor him. You can even do it further to the right and still get back to the left to start a short charge to the right. Also with this version it could be possible to stay over there if draygon fires gunk and possibly connect some particles before short charging left for a killing spark. I've gotten that to work a few times but it was just a fluke.

That was awesome!!!

Yea I've done it with double PWC 2 Round but. I couldn't get it consistently. Hell its worth a shot to try and figure it out. Its probably worth trying it anyway because of the result that can come from it. Not gonna experiment with it too much since I'm retired but, I'll experiment with it sometime soon I believe.

I have an idea you could try maybe if he doesn't swoop release the PWC like normal then run all the way right SSC to the left and jump over his head hold your Shine Spark animation until the PWC catches up and Shine Spark him in the back of the head.

[quote="giganotabehemoth87"]It's certainly consistent if we could know for sure that draygon will swoop in round 2. There's in fact many places you can x factor him. You can even do it further to the right and still get back to the left to start a short charge to the right. Also with this version it could be possible to stay over there if draygon fires gunk and possibly connect some particles before short charging left for a killing spark. I've gotten that to work a few times but it was just a fluke. [/quote]

That was awesome!!!

Yea I've done it with double PWC 2 Round but. I couldn't get it consistently. Hell its worth a shot to try and figure it out. Its probably worth trying it anyway because of the result that can come from it. Not gonna experiment with it too much since I'm retired but, I'll experiment with it sometime soon I believe.

I have an idea you could try maybe if he doesn't swoop release the PWC like normal then run all the way right SSC to the left and jump over his head hold your Shine Spark animation until the PWC catches up and Shine Spark him in the back of the head.

giganotabehemoth87

2015-02-21 10:41:03 am

Yeah that's how I've got it to work before exactly the same way, but it was just a fluke. most of the particles just get blocked by the gunk while you're over on the right before short charging left and there's typically only 1, maybe 2 flying around after that and they're way off course to make any connection with him. Also even if this is successful it's actually quite a bit slower than the super missiles kill of this 2 rounder, because more time is wasted leaving draygon to drift further left. It's a real shame but i think supers strategy, for safety and speed is probably the way to go.

lxx4xNx6xxl

Edit history:

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-22 04:49:59 am

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-21 09:36:21 pm

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-21 09:30:05 pm

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-21 09:29:43 pm

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-21 09:27:57 pm

2015-02-21 09:27:13 pm

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

Congratulations Zoast, I just watched your run!!!

I was gonna pop by to say hello but, I didn't feel like talking/typing much and I didn't want to turn my volume up on my computer. Anyway the run was excellent congrats again!!!

Here is the video for those who haven't seen it live like myself.
http://www.twitch.tv/zoasty/v/3819255

Now I hope we figure this Draygon thing out. I hope more people donate to the Save A Frame Foundation!!!

giganotabehemoth87

2015-02-22 08:15:48 am

Congrats Zoast !. Only found out about this here. It was a great run. Amazing splits at LN elevator, Ridley, Varia, statues. It probably could have bee an 42 if it weren't for 3rd metroid room but this always happens in this game when we're so close. next PB is the one for sure. I'm still practicing 2 round Phantoon and this draygon strat, but soon I'll probably start attempting.

lxx4xNx6xxl

Edit history:

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-22 08:30:20 am

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-22 08:24:36 am

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-22 08:22:57 am

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-22 08:22:47 am

2015-02-22 08:22:32 am

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

Quote from giganotabehemoth87:

Congrats Zoast !. Only found out about this here. It was a great run. Amazing splits at LN elevator, Ridley, Varia, statues. It probably could have bee an 42 if it weren't for 3rd metroid room but this always happens in this game when we're so close. next PB is the one for sure. I'm still practicing 2 round Phantoon and this draygon strat, but soon I'll probably start attempting.

That's great to hear Good Luck Behemoth. Sub-43 then retire sounds nice doesn't it!?

Also I think you may be Jesus. Your run gets beat and a few days later you rise once again. So in 3 days make attempts. LOL.

giganotabehemoth87

Edit history:

giganotabehemoth87: 2015-02-22 08:35:45 am

2015-02-22 08:33:41 am

Lol I've been attempting on and off as soon as I got 43:12 but then your pesky draygon strat came along :D. No seriously the 2 round phantoon is mostly what i want to include in my next run, it's certainly doable but i won't begin unless I'm more consistent at it.

and yeah I don't think I'll bother after getting a 42. 28 game time looks like the final goal for this route though but like the old route I don't have any motivation for that.

Reeve

2015-02-22 12:56:47 pm

Congratulations, Zoast! Watched it live, it was a sick run for sure! You nailed all great tricks like cwj first try, LN spark, Reverse double kago boostball, Big metroid skip... Only thing that went wrong despite of minor mistakes was Botwoon fight not beeing a 1 round. Fucking solid gameplay overall. Wish you the best!

Looking forward to sub 43 in this great game!