[SNES] Super Metroid

zoast

Edit history:

zoast: 2015-02-13 01:15:16 pm

zoast: 2015-02-13 01:09:02 pm

2015-02-13 01:08:11 pm

Quote from Smokey:

The problem I see here is a divided community where some players prefer to discuss the game with the immediacy of chat system and others prefer to do it on forums, both having their pros and cons. Maybe for some runners posting on the forums is not necessary because most things are self explanatory, but that doesn't prevent people from sharing a bit of knowledge in regards to a particular trick.

no, i don't think that's the reason.

Smokey

Edit history:

Smokey: 2015-02-13 02:53:41 pm

2015-02-13 02:51:27 pm

Quote from zoast:

Quote from Smokey:

The problem I see here is a divided community where some players prefer to discuss the game with the immediacy of chat system and others prefer to do it on forums, both having their pros and cons. Maybe for some runners posting on the forums is not necessary because most things are self explanatory, but that doesn't prevent people from sharing a bit of knowledge in regards to a particular trick.

no, i don't think that's the reason.

I saw your original message before you edited, and I'm not sure what you're implying here. Here's a quote from a previous post I did on page 10:

Quote from Smokey_SDA:

The private thread was started by me telling Behemoth about a brief, fun return I wanted to do, and later developed into the WS-first route discussion. The forum (it doesn't matter if it was m2k2 or not) allowed us to keep track and document the research of the route in a much better way than a chat based discussion.

I'm talking for myself here. I have a lot of respect for you and the agdq '14 race, and if it wasn't for that I wouldn't had crawled out from under the rock I was. This private thread that people have referred was never started as long time, old sinister plan/project to dethrone people. When the thread was started we greeted each other after a long absence, catching up with the latest strats/discussions and later the discussion took direction into the early WS route, and down the road after all the testing we did we decided to keep it private until a serious console run came out of it. Why keep it private? Because the route was heavily frowned upon and wasn't popular. It makes me feel guilty in a way about not releasing a theory TAS or progress run because it's stupid to rule out the possibility of someone having an interest in this and helping us. But what's done is done, and at that time we felt like there was a right time to release the route, and that was after a console run was done.

For me, personally, this is not about competition, or who has the best rank or who doesn't, but about knowing what's the "limit" of the game. The route was unpopular and it only took a console run for people to take it seriously and start investigating it. I don't take pride/claim in this route, (and I don't think the TASers themselves even claim it as their own, I can tell a whole other story/history about that in another time). I only want for people to improve it so this "limit" can be reached. I won't keep explaining myself and if people want to keep misinterpreting our posts by developing wild/paranoid theories about people sitting on wrs records and whatnot then that's a shame and shows the type of persons we're dealing with. After the first 43, we have done nothing but share to everyone insights and theory TASes via youtube and twitch. Peace all.

[quote="zoast"][quote="Smokey"]The problem I see here is a divided community where some players prefer to discuss the game with the immediacy of chat system and others prefer to do it on forums, both having their pros and cons. Maybe for some runners posting on the forums is not necessary because most things are self explanatory, but that doesn't prevent people from sharing a bit of knowledge in regards to a particular trick.
[/quote]
no, i don't think that's the reason.[/quote]

I saw your original message before you edited, and I'm not sure what you're implying here. Here's a quote from a previous post I did on page 10:

[quote="Smokey_SDA"]The private thread was started by me telling Behemoth about a brief, fun return I wanted to do, and later developed into the WS-first route discussion. The forum (it doesn't matter if it was m2k2 or not) allowed us to keep track and document the research of the route in a much better way than a chat based discussion.[/quote]

I'm talking for myself here. I have a lot of respect for you and the agdq '14 race, and if it wasn't for that I wouldn't had crawled out from under the rock I was. This private thread that people have referred was never started as long time, old sinister plan/project to dethrone people. When the thread was started we greeted each other after a long absence, catching up with the latest strats/discussions and later the discussion took direction into the early WS route, and down the road after all the testing we did we decided to keep it private until a serious console run came out of it. Why keep it private? Because the route was heavily frowned upon and wasn't popular. It makes me feel guilty in a way about not releasing a theory TAS or progress run because it's stupid to rule out the possibility of someone having an interest in this and helping us. But what's done is done, and at that time we felt like there was a right time to release the route, and that was after a console run was done.

For me, personally, this is not about competition, or who has the best rank or who doesn't, but about knowing what's the "limit" of the game. The route was unpopular and it only took a console run for people to take it seriously and start investigating it. I don't take pride/claim in this route, (and I don't think the TASers themselves even claim it as their own, I can tell a whole other story/history about that in another time). I only want for people to improve it so this "limit" can be reached. I won't keep explaining myself and if people want to keep misinterpreting our posts by developing wild/paranoid theories about people sitting on wrs records and whatnot then that's a shame and shows the type of persons we're dealing with. After the first 43, we have done nothing but share to everyone insights and theory TASes via youtube and twitch. Peace all.

zoast

Edit history:

zoast: 2015-02-13 08:58:14 pm

zoast: 2015-02-13 04:26:23 pm

zoast: 2015-02-13 04:25:24 pm

zoast: 2015-02-13 04:25:09 pm

zoast: 2015-02-13 04:24:57 pm

zoast: 2015-02-13 04:24:42 pm

zoast: 2015-02-13 04:22:08 pm

zoast: 2015-02-13 04:21:56 pm

zoast: 2015-02-13 04:21:39 pm

zoast: 2015-02-13 04:20:54 pm

2015-02-13 04:16:29 pm

Yeah, I don't have a problem with you. But to generalize, in some ways I just found your post funny and ironic, considering the history here (for me personally this would go back to the 45:24). And clearly there is some animosity between camps here, for whatever reason, that goes back before my time. Interestingly, Dessy has pointed out to me that there are some possible benefits to a split community though, since there's a possibility that a unified one will take more things for granted as being optimal, but really, with the right mindset this shouldn't be an issue? But ultimately it's the prerogative of whoever to release their ideas however they want, it's not like it's national security we are talking about.

Anyway, I guess you're right, you and reeve have shared some things that could be helpful. For instance, 2 round phantoon being brought up again. I had talked about it before, but reeve is right, it can be a nice time saver, and it's definitely a lot easier to do now with yalls improvements in that fight. I agree with you there's still a lot of small optimizations (or perhaps big ones, who knows) that could still be made to this route.

Oh, I don't think it's a strange or paranoid theory to suspect behemoth had a better run in the many months between 4346 and 4311. If you get 4311 twice in 2 days you have probably have some really good consistency, plus looking at his history, and knowing very well personally that 4346 is not that great of a time for a player of his caliber. Either way, I don't really care at this point.

Anyway, I should actually watch the run I guess, I've been working 10 hour days for the last 11 days, with 4 nights of school, so I haven't really had much time for anything.

Yeah, I don't have a problem with you.  But to generalize, in some ways I just found your post funny and ironic, considering the history here (for me personally this would go back to the 45:24).  And clearly there is some animosity between camps here, for whatever reason, that goes back before my time.  Interestingly, Dessy has pointed out to me that there are some possible benefits to a split community though, since there's a possibility that a unified one will take more things for granted as being optimal, but really, with the right mindset this shouldn't be an issue?  But ultimately it's the prerogative of whoever to release their ideas however they want, it's not like it's national security we are talking about.

Anyway, I guess you're right, you and reeve have shared some things that could be helpful.  For instance, 2 round phantoon being brought up again.  I had talked about it before, but reeve is right, it can be a nice time saver, and it's definitely a lot easier to do now with yalls improvements in that fight.  I agree with you there's still a lot of small optimizations (or perhaps big ones, who knows) that could still be made to this route.

Oh, I don't think it's a strange or paranoid theory to suspect behemoth had a better run in the many months between 4346 and 4311.  If you get 4311 twice in 2 days you have probably have some really good consistency, plus looking at his history, and knowing very well personally that 4346 is not that great of a time for a player of his caliber.  Either way, I don't really care at this point.

Anyway, I should actually watch the run I guess, I've been working 10 hour days for the last 11 days, with 4 nights of school, so I haven't really had much time for anything.

Smokey

2015-02-13 07:55:04 pm

I see now your point and like you, this animosity comes from way back before I even knew about twitch or what happened during the 45's rta era (I can only account for what has happened since February last year). So I guess it's natural that you found my post ironic.

Definitely agree, and this shouldn't be an issue as I think that if something new is found regardless of difficulty, it's exciting for everyone because there's more replay value and lots of cool possibilities.

Yeah the 2 rounder doppler method is something that should be considered if we're ever going to see a sick 42 run, and not only that but can easily make your splits more lower and consistent w/o relying on a 3rd round. Right now we are debating to get the charge missiles to get to Phantoon with better ammo and skip the wave missile (which is awkward to do and saves a bit of less time than skipping the charge missiles). Of course, take in mind that the true purpose of doing 15/10 is to allow you to grab Draygon's drops and do the gravity jump so no farming (or reduced) is done on your way out, and not to mention that group strats are reduced in Tourian. It's not done to simply save 6.4 seconds of item box. The x-fac strat that we discussed (3-5 pbs) can be actually much faster if you eliminate the ammo/health setup in pre ridley room and only go for the pb drops and if there could be a way to hit ridley with 3-5 of them after he's red and then using the rest of the supers on him. That way you eliminate the pause screen @ LN elev and only do this one to switch to wave beam, as this pause is done anyway after the fight. But as you know, this all depends on execution from how you do the pause menu, the x-fact fight itself and the whole fight entirely. A small slip up can easily take away the time it saves and put it on par with normal fight using only charged shots/supers, so this all depends on the player.

About the 4346-4311: It's a fair suspicion as he doesn't stream, but I don't think he's still sitting on wrs for whatever reason as some people have suggested, but it's natural to think that he's playing a lot after you and kott were getting low 44's. I won't really comment on this anymore as I think he should be the one to respond to this.

Good luck with your work/studies (we're on the same train) and look forward to see some of your runs! (Well if you're still interested in improving).

I see now your point and like you, this animosity comes from way back before I even knew about twitch or what happened during the 45's rta era (I can only account for what has happened since February last year). So I guess it's natural that you found my post ironic.

Definitely agree, and this shouldn't be an issue as I think that if something new is found regardless of difficulty, it's exciting for everyone because there's more replay value and lots of cool possibilities.

Yeah the 2 rounder doppler method is something that should be considered if we're ever going to see a sick 42 run, and not only that but can easily make your splits more lower and consistent w/o relying on a 3rd round. Right now we are debating to get the charge missiles to get to Phantoon with better ammo and skip the wave missile (which is awkward to do and saves a bit of less time than skipping the charge missiles). Of course, take in mind that the true purpose of doing 15/10 is to allow you to grab Draygon's drops and do the gravity jump so no farming (or reduced) is done on your way out, and not to mention that group strats are reduced in Tourian. It's not done to simply save 6.4 seconds of item box. The x-fac strat that we discussed (3-5 pbs) can be actually much faster if you eliminate the ammo/health setup in pre ridley room and only go for the pb drops and if there could be a way to hit ridley with 3-5 of them after he's red and then using the rest of the supers on him. That way you eliminate the pause screen @ LN elev and only do this one to switch to wave beam, as this pause is done anyway after the fight. But as you know, this all depends on execution from how you do the pause menu, the x-fact fight itself and the whole fight entirely. A small slip up can easily take away the time it saves and put it on par with normal fight using only charged shots/supers, so this all depends on the player.

About the 4346-4311: It's a fair suspicion as he doesn't stream, but I don't think he's still sitting on wrs for whatever reason as some people have suggested, but it's natural to think that he's playing a lot after you and kott were getting low 44's. I won't really comment on this anymore as I think he should be the one to respond to this.

Good luck with your work/studies (we're on the same train) and look forward to see some of your runs! (Well if you're still interested in improving).

zoast

Edit history:

zoast: 2015-02-13 10:39:39 pm

zoast: 2015-02-13 10:25:22 pm

zoast: 2015-02-13 10:17:01 pm

zoast: 2015-02-13 10:16:06 pm

zoast: 2015-02-13 10:15:53 pm

zoast: 2015-02-13 10:15:41 pm

zoast: 2015-02-13 10:14:58 pm

zoast: 2015-02-13 10:14:32 pm

zoast: 2015-02-13 10:14:31 pm

zoast: 2015-02-13 10:13:49 pm

zoast: 2015-02-13 10:13:20 pm

zoast: 2015-02-13 10:12:49 pm

zoast: 2015-02-13 09:06:56 pm

2015-02-13 09:06:36 pm

yes, skipping wave is probably the way to go, it seems to me, if you hope to get a fast/fast or fast/mid 2 round without insane luck.

just jump over wave missile, do a short spin at the end, do the same dboost as in bowling. and then wj up, that's my method atm... you lose 20 health or something for LN though, but I think it's better, personally. of course it's like 1-2 seconds slower than charge skip simply looking at movement.

that's interesting on draygon, just use supers on the turrets for more health drop from dray?? I was just using it as a backup strat before... one that makes getting partially chained by draygon really not a problem.

the way drops usually seem to work is with full missiles, drops revert to health and vice versa, but you don't get better super or power bomb drops. I'm not sure if it's this way for boss drops but it is for the metroids and probably most enemies. Either way, health is extremely helpful after draygon, and group strats don't lose much time.

I don't really see x factor being feasible at the end of the ridley fight, although it's a really cool idea. It's just seems too much to depend on ridley to swoop 3-5 times in a row, and x factoring pogos is already incredibly tricky when he's slow due to the randomness in the height of his pogo. From my tests, in the middle of the fight it only saves like 1 second each x factor anyway (partially because the game lags), and that's clean 4 hit factors with no delay between charging the next one. I'm aware that my x factor strat, on paper, is pretty much a wash with a charge shot strat. Also, one benefit of my farm strat before ridley, is that you have a very good chance to end up with 10 supers if you enter with 10, something that you obviously can't have otherwise without missiling the eye door. super should save like 1.5 seconds or something on average, so it sortof counterbalances the 2 seconds that I take to farm pbs, and of course it's possible to get more than 1 @ 40% each fly.

yes, skipping wave is probably the way to go, it seems to me, if you hope to get a fast/fast or fast/mid 2 round without insane luck.

just jump over wave missile, do a short spin at the end, do the same dboost as in bowling. and then wj up, that's my method atm...  you lose 20 health or something for LN though, but I think it's better, personally.   of course it's like 1-2 seconds slower than charge skip simply looking at movement.

that's interesting on draygon, just use supers on the turrets for more health drop from dray??  I was just using it as a backup strat before... one that makes getting partially chained by draygon really not a problem.

the way drops usually seem to work is with full missiles, drops revert to health and vice versa, but you don't get better super or power bomb drops.   I'm not sure if it's this way for boss drops but it is for the metroids and probably most enemies.  Either way, health is extremely helpful after draygon, and group strats don't lose much time.

I don't really see x factor being feasible at the end of the ridley fight, although it's a really cool idea.  It's just seems too much to depend on ridley to swoop 3-5 times in a row, and x factoring pogos is already incredibly tricky when he's slow due to the randomness in the height of his pogo.  From my tests, in the middle of the fight it only saves like 1 second each x factor anyway (partially because the game lags), and that's clean 4 hit factors with no delay between charging the next one.  I'm aware that my x factor strat, on paper, is pretty much a wash with a charge shot strat.  Also, one benefit of my farm strat before ridley, is that you have a very good chance to end up with 10 supers if you enter with 10, something that you obviously can't have otherwise without missiling the eye door.  super should save like 1.5 seconds or something on average, so it sortof counterbalances the 2 seconds that I take to farm pbs, and of course it's possible to get more than 1 @ 40% each fly.

Garrison

2015-02-13 10:52:32 pm

One thing I want to say to behemoth while I'm thinking about it. Dude I'm sorry that people shit on your youtube videos all the time lmao. I don't like the way you guys have handled the development of the strats or withholding runs, but I've always had lots of respect for the level of control, the tenacity to keep going, and the balls to keep pushing. So apologies about any drama people try to force upon your achievements either on my behalf or against me, its all trivial compared to contributing towards the optimization of the game and has no place trying to take precedence over it. Peace

Reeve

Edit history:

Reeve: 2015-02-14 04:13:38 am

Reeve: 2015-02-14 04:13:22 am

Reeve: 2015-02-14 04:13:01 am

Reeve: 2015-02-14 04:12:39 am

Reeve: 2015-02-14 04:11:15 am

Reeve: 2015-02-14 04:08:24 am

2015-02-14 04:07:48 am

Quote from zoast:

just jump over wave missile, do a short spin at the end, do the same dboost as in bowling. and then wj up, that's my method atm...

There are also these possibilities. See what fits better for you.

Use snes9x 1.51 (the one I posted before) to play the smv files.

Edit: The late shot to switch the gate in one of the smvs is to help Samus to land in the very ledge, so you have more run up before jumping over the missile for the mockball. If you land too close to the crumble blocks the damage Samus takes can push her back and it will be a reset. It's not hard to make it to the top with just one jump, you need just a little bit of run up.

Attachments:

SafeWaveMissileSkip.smv

WaveMissileSkip.smv

lxx4xNx6xxl

Edit history:

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-14 10:33:07 am

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-14 10:32:41 am

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-14 10:31:58 am

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-14 09:41:35 am

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-14 09:38:18 am

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-14 08:46:31 am

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-14 08:38:42 am

2015-02-14 08:37:58 am

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

I guess you can blame me but, I would have shared all my knowledge if someone were to ask me directly. I felt it was like don't talk to him because I don't like him don't acknowledge him. So I just stuck with the people I knew.

So here is some knowledge for you guys.

Explanation: Now first if you drop into this room it causes the rinka to spawn 1 frame earlier. Now here is the interesting thing about taking damage, when you get knocked back without damage boosting something interesting happens your able to preform a back+down fall. This is the key to glitching into the zebetite after you freeze the rinka. It will glitch you right in so just back+down fall until you crouch. Its also more consistent to get hit and start the back+down fall from farther back. Also a nice bit of info is its only 1 frame slower then the most optimal TAS strategy.

lxx4xNx6xxl

2015-02-14 10:54:01 am

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

Quote from zoast:

yes, skipping wave is probably the way to go, it seems to me, if you hope to get a fast/fast or fast/mid 2 round without insane luck.

just jump over wave missile, do a short spin at the end, do the same dboost as in bowling. and then wj up, that's my method atm... you lose 20 health or something for LN though, but I think it's better, personally. of course it's like 1-2 seconds slower than charge skip simply looking at movement.

.

If you hit the ripper you only lose 3 health or something like that. Also you guys can do the orb boost in the room before it is the fastest strategy and only takes 3 health.

giganotabehemoth87

Edit history:

giganotabehemoth87: 2015-02-14 12:21:00 pm

2015-02-14 12:18:49 pm

Quote from zoast:

But to generalize, in some ways I just found your post funny and ironic, considering the history here (for me personally this would go back to the 45:24)

I never had a problem with SRL myself personally, though admittedly I didn't really start paying much attention until Garrison got a 30. I was in a transitional period where i felt I'd done what I wanted to do on PAL, and I thought wouldn't it be cool to try getting this 29 that people had been talking about for god knows how long. It had been tried before by 072 on M2k2 using segments, but our knowledge of the game and ultimately skill level wasn't up to par which is why it was such a difficult task back then. This seemed like the right time to give it a shot, and i had barely started watching streams back, though i was made aware there was some kind of push for a 29 over on your side, in fact i believe the last run i was aware of before the 29 was your 45:46. As for the run itself. A lot was made about the game time strats being used, but i feel these were few and far between honestly. It wasn't like i purposefully used game time strats to make the 29 an easier target, they were more just things I had carried over from the PAL runs before. I felt like I'd just played well enough to get a 29, and nothing more, there was no cheap shots to victory using countless game time strats. The run was admittedly sloppy in a few places but what was really impressive was how yourself, kott and Ivan all got 44's within the space of a few months afterwards.

2 round phantoon is definitely a nice helper for a 42, though it's certainly not a requirement. Since with a 3 rounder the 3rd round can be a fast pattern which is only a little slower than a 2 round, so gravity splits are not always improved immensely. Of course if a player was consistent at 2 rounder then great splits at gravity would be more commonplace. Combine that with the wave missile skip and you're looking at amazing splits at the Lower Norfair elevator. I did a console run the other night just to test the 2 round and subsequent splits. I got a decent start and a 2 rounder, mid, mid, got to LN elevator with 20:56 which tied my best ever time here. However on this one I failed the spark in the lava (LN spark) losing about 10 seconds. Imagine having 20:45. That's some 20 seconds ahead of the 43:12 which had a 21:06 split.

For the jump from 43:46 to 43:12. I had been improving since the 43:46 almost immediately but failed to actually complete many runs. It was roughly around the time Kott started getting low 44's that i started 'grinding' a bit more you could say, and also incorporating some 'safer' strats that we had been meddling with, such as the double spark on ninja's for more supers and the gravity jump at Draygon. These really helped with the confidence and to more easily tie a run together. My splits at LN elevator were frequently in the region of 20 - 30, sometimes 40 seconds ahead of PB but nerves crushed these runs in either Ridley, Maridia or tourian. This 43:12 is simply the first run held together to the end. Managing to do 2 of them was just a stroke of luck, as the first one was not watchable beyond like the Metroid skip. I wouldn't really describe myself as a grinder and can only really do it for about 2 hours at a time. I frequently get my PB's on first attempt of the day with fresh hands and a small practice beforehand. I spend the time away from those 2 hours practicing large segments and/or boss strats.

Quote from Garrison:

One thing I want to say to behemoth while I'm thinking about it. Dude I'm sorry that people shit on your youtube videos all the time lmao. I don't like the way you guys have handled the development of the strats or withholding runs, but I've always had lots of respect for the level of control, the tenacity to keep going, and the balls to keep pushing. So apologies about any drama people try to force upon your achievements either on my behalf or against me, its all trivial compared to contributing towards the optimization of the game and has no place trying to take precedence over it. Peace

No problem dude. It was only really this run that it happened, and i understand why, though a slightly larger dislike bar than normal is a pretty crude measure to try and get under my skin. Whatever it's not working. In regards to withholding runs, that was only the initial 43:48. Which even that was still uploaded as soon as I could after actually doing it. The route itself is what was withheld which we're guilty of. But ultimately I hope people can understand our actions for doing so were not meant to selfishly get wr, and that we can all come to an agreement now to share everything as best we can.

[quote="zoast"]But to generalize, in some ways I just found your post funny and ironic, considering the history here (for me personally this would go back to the 45:24)[/quote]

I never had a problem with SRL myself personally, though admittedly I didn't really start paying much attention until Garrison got a 30. I was in a transitional period where i felt I'd done what I wanted to do on PAL, and I thought wouldn't it be cool to try getting this 29 that people had been talking about for god knows how long. It had been tried before by 072 on M2k2 using segments, but our knowledge of the game and ultimately skill level wasn't up to par which is why it was such a difficult task back then. This seemed like the right time to give it a shot, and i had barely started watching streams back, though i was made aware there was some kind of push for a 29 over on your side, in fact i believe the last run i was aware of before the 29 was your 45:46. As for the run itself. A lot was made about the game time strats being used, but i feel these were few and far between honestly. It wasn't like i purposefully used game time strats to make the 29 an easier target, they were more just things I had carried over from the PAL runs before. I felt like I'd just played well enough to get a 29, and nothing more, there was no cheap shots to victory using countless game time strats. The run was admittedly sloppy in a few places but what was really impressive was how yourself, kott and Ivan all got 44's within the space of a few months afterwards.

2 round phantoon is definitely a nice helper for a 42, though it's certainly not a requirement. Since with a 3 rounder the 3rd round can be a fast pattern which is only a little slower than a 2 round, so gravity splits are not always improved immensely. Of course if a player was consistent at 2 rounder then great splits at gravity would be more commonplace. Combine that with the wave missile skip and you're looking at amazing splits at the Lower Norfair elevator. I did a console run the other night just to test the 2 round and subsequent splits. I got a decent start and a 2 rounder, mid, mid, got to LN elevator with 20:56 which tied my best ever time here. However on this one I failed the spark in the lava (LN spark) losing about 10 seconds. Imagine having 20:45. That's some 20 seconds ahead of the 43:12 which had a 21:06 split.

For the jump from 43:46 to 43:12. I had been improving since the 43:46 almost immediately but failed to actually complete many runs. It was roughly around the time Kott started getting low 44's that i started 'grinding' a bit more you could say, and also incorporating some 'safer' strats that we had been meddling with, such as the double spark on ninja's for more supers and the gravity jump at Draygon. These really helped with the confidence and to more easily tie a run together. My splits at LN elevator were frequently in the region of 20 - 30, sometimes 40 seconds ahead of PB but nerves crushed these runs in either Ridley, Maridia or tourian. This 43:12 is simply the first run held together to the end. Managing to do 2 of them was just a stroke of luck, as the first one was not watchable beyond like the Metroid skip. I wouldn't really describe myself as a grinder and can only really do it for about 2 hours at a time. I frequently get my PB's on first attempt of the day with fresh hands and a small practice beforehand. I spend the time away from those 2 hours practicing large segments and/or boss strats.

[quote="Garrison"]One thing I want to say to behemoth while I'm thinking about it. Dude I'm sorry that people shit on your youtube videos all the time lmao. I don't like the way you guys have handled the development of the strats or withholding runs, but I've always had lots of respect for the level of control, the tenacity to keep going, and the balls to keep pushing. So apologies about any drama people try to force upon your achievements either on my behalf or against me, its all trivial compared to contributing towards the optimization of the game and has no place trying to take precedence over it. Peace[/quote]

No problem dude. It was only really this run that it happened, and i understand why, though a slightly larger dislike bar than normal is a pretty crude measure to try and get under my skin. Whatever it's not working. In regards to withholding runs, that was only the initial 43:48. Which even that was still uploaded as soon as I could after actually doing it. The route itself is what was withheld which we're guilty of. But ultimately I hope people can understand our actions for doing so were not meant to selfishly get wr, and that we can all come to an agreement now to share everything as best we can.

lxx4xNx6xxl

Edit history:

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-14 12:42:54 pm

2015-02-14 12:41:47 pm

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

Speaking of Routes. I've been wondering about a In-Game Time Route but, since I am retired I never bothered testing it.

Wrecked Ship - Upper Norfair - Maridia - Plasma - Kraid Kill with Plasma Beam like in Saturns RBO TAS (Definitely looks possible) also speed booster and Space Jump make this interesting - Ice Beam - Ridley - Tourian

If someone would TAS this that would be great and very much appreciated!!!

zoast

Edit history:

zoast: 2015-02-14 12:57:17 pm

zoast: 2015-02-14 12:55:07 pm

zoast: 2015-02-14 12:54:15 pm

2015-02-14 12:53:28 pm

Quote from lxx4xNx6xxl:

Quote from zoast:

yes, skipping wave is probably the way to go, it seems to me, if you hope to get a fast/fast or fast/mid 2 round without insane luck.

just jump over wave missile, do a short spin at the end, do the same dboost as in bowling. and then wj up, that's my method atm... you lose 20 health or something for LN though, but I think it's better, personally. of course it's like 1-2 seconds slower than charge skip simply looking at movement.

.

If you hit the ripper you only lose 3 health or something like that. Also you guys can do the orb boost in the room before it is the fastest strategy and only takes 3 health.

Ahh yeah, i was trying to turnaround kago at one point, but morph kago through the ripper is quite nice. I'd bet one of reeves smvs is that, i gotta find my correct snes9x and load them still. The orb boost is just too inconsistent for my liking seeing as it requires quite a late dboost, plus if you use regular missiles it will lag alot if you dont kill at least the horsey.

As for 2 round phantoon, i agree with all that. It just makes phantoon consistently faster instead of counting on the 25% chance he will fast round 3. It's a pain enough to wait on relatively fast 1st and 2nd rounds with cwj killing runs already. There shouldnt be any risk to go for it, anyway. My point before is that it would be a shame to throw away the possibility of fast/fast fast/mid 2rnd due to slightly inadequate missile counts.

I was riffing on the 2 spark gold pirate thing with my (dessys) opening and there's a way to do it only losing 2 seconds for me, although it requires a very good short charge. Still not sure I like it, although it certainly saves time if you otherwise end up with 6 super or something in a 1 spark strat.

I forgot to mention, the other small side benefit to the xfactor opening on ridley is that if you fail lava spark and have to grav jump, you lose a little less time, but optimally this doesn't matter.

Yes i wouldn't say you used game time strats to get 29, it very much just seemed as you say, holdover strats that were less real time oriented.

I would imagine an optimal in game run would be similar to the current tas, but i can't say i would know for sure. You are going to lose a decent clip of time splitting upper norfair from lower, still, even in game time. When's the push to 27? 28 with real time route really isn't too far out of reach, although it would require a pretty godlike run atm.

On another side note, there is now a lot of time to be taken off of low% ice, due to any% developments (as well as twocat and other people's work). My 53 has like a 14:4x gravity time Tongue

[quote="lxx4xNx6xxl"][quote="zoast"]yes, skipping wave is probably the way to go, it seems to me, if you hope to get a fast/fast or fast/mid 2 round without insane luck.

just jump over wave missile, do a short spin at the end, do the same dboost as in bowling. and then wj up, that's my method atm...  you lose 20 health or something for LN though, but I think it's better, personally.   of course it's like 1-2 seconds slower than charge skip simply looking at movement.

.[/quote]

If you hit the ripper you only lose 3 health or something like that. Also you guys can do the orb boost in the room before it is the fastest strategy and only takes 3 health.[/quote]

Ahh yeah, i was trying to turnaround kago at one point, but morph kago through the ripper is quite nice.  I'd bet one of reeves smvs is that, i gotta find my correct snes9x and load them still.  The orb boost is just too inconsistent for my liking seeing as it requires quite a late dboost, plus if you use regular missiles it will lag alot if you dont kill at least the horsey.

As for 2 round phantoon, i agree with all that.  It just makes phantoon consistently faster instead of counting on the 25% chance he will fast round 3.  It's a pain enough to wait on relatively fast 1st and 2nd rounds with cwj killing runs already.  There shouldnt be any risk to go for it, anyway.  My point before is that it would be a shame to throw away the possibility of fast/fast fast/mid 2rnd due to slightly inadequate missile counts.

I was riffing on the 2 spark gold pirate thing with my (dessys) opening and there's a way to do it only losing 2 seconds for me, although it requires a very good short charge.  Still not sure I like it, although it certainly saves time if you otherwise end up with 6 super or something in a 1 spark strat.

I forgot to mention, the other small side benefit to the xfactor opening on ridley is that if you fail lava spark and have to grav jump, you lose a little less time, but optimally this doesn't matter.

Yes i wouldn't say you used game time strats to get 29, it very much just seemed as you say, holdover strats that were less real time oriented.

I would imagine an optimal in game run would be similar to the current tas, but i can't say i would know for sure.  You are going to lose a decent clip of time splitting upper norfair from lower, still, even in game time.  When's the push to 27?  28 with real time route really isn't too far out of reach, although it would require a pretty godlike run atm.

On another side note, there is now a lot of time to be taken off of low% ice, due to any% developments (as well as twocat and other people's work).  My 53 has like a 14:4x gravity time :P

lxx4xNx6xxl

Edit history:

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-14 01:22:45 pm

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-14 01:14:00 pm

2015-02-14 01:13:23 pm

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

Quote from zoast:

Quote from lxx4xNx6xxl:

Quote from zoast:

yes, skipping wave is probably the way to go, it seems to me, if you hope to get a fast/fast or fast/mid 2 round without insane luck.

just jump over wave missile, do a short spin at the end, do the same dboost as in bowling. and then wj up, that's my method atm... you lose 20 health or something for LN though, but I think it's better, personally. of course it's like 1-2 seconds slower than charge skip simply looking at movement.

.

If you hit the ripper you only lose 3 health or something like that. Also you guys can do the orb boost in the room before it is the fastest strategy and only takes 3 health.

Ahh yeah, i was trying to turnaround kago at one point, but morph kago through the ripper is quite nice. I'd bet one of reeves smvs is that, i gotta find my correct snes9x and load them still. The orb boost is just too inconsistent for my liking seeing as it requires quite a late dboost, plus if you use regular missiles it will lag alot if you dont kill at least the horsey.

As for 2 round phantoon, i agree with all that. It just makes phantoon consistently faster instead of counting on the 25% chance he will fast round 3. It's a pain enough to wait on relatively fast 1st and 2nd rounds with cwj killing runs already. There shouldnt be any risk to go for it, anyway. My point before is that it would be a shame to throw away the possibility of fast/fast fast/mid 2rnd due to slightly inadequate missile counts.

I was riffing on the 2 spark gold pirate thing with my (dessys) opening and there's a way to do it only losing 2 seconds for me, although it requires a very good short charge. Still not sure I like it, although it certainly saves time if you otherwise end up with 6 super or something in a 1 spark strat.

I forgot to mention, the other small side benefit to the xfactor opening on ridley is that if you fail lava spark and have to grav jump, you lose a little less time, but optimally this doesn't matter.

Yes i wouldn't say you used game time strats to get 29, it very much just seemed as you say, holdover strats that were less real time oriented.

I would imagine an optimal in game run would be similar to the current tas, but i can't say i would know for sure. You are going to lose a decent clip of time splitting upper norfair from lower, still, even in game time. When's the push to 27? 28 with real time route really isn't too far out of reach, although it would require a pretty godlike run atm.

On another side note, there is now a lot of time to be taken off of low% ice, due to any% developments (as well as twocat and other people's work). My 53 has like a 14:4x gravity time Tongue

With the orb boost I hold angle down and jump during the door transition. It helps the sub pixel for the correct boost over and holding jump just makes its so you don't have to time it as much just hit back. Try it out it could definitely help with the consistency for that boost.

Speaking of Power Wave Combo will the Kung-Fu Pirates take damage by it? If so I was thinking a possible strategy with that.

Not the current TAS similar to Cpadolfs old Any%. I would still like to see this tested if anyone has the time.

Edit:

Also Zoast have you tried the Zebetite Glitch yet?

[quote="zoast"][quote="lxx4xNx6xxl"][quote="zoast"]yes, skipping wave is probably the way to go, it seems to me, if you hope to get a fast/fast or fast/mid 2 round without insane luck.

just jump over wave missile, do a short spin at the end, do the same dboost as in bowling. and then wj up, that's my method atm...  you lose 20 health or something for LN though, but I think it's better, personally.   of course it's like 1-2 seconds slower than charge skip simply looking at movement.

.[/quote]

If you hit the ripper you only lose 3 health or something like that. Also you guys can do the orb boost in the room before it is the fastest strategy and only takes 3 health.[/quote]

Ahh yeah, i was trying to turnaround kago at one point, but morph kago through the ripper is quite nice.  I'd bet one of reeves smvs is that, i gotta find my correct snes9x and load them still.  The orb boost is just too inconsistent for my liking seeing as it requires quite a late dboost, plus if you use regular missiles it will lag alot if you dont kill at least the horsey.

As for 2 round phantoon, i agree with all that.  It just makes phantoon consistently faster instead of counting on the 25% chance he will fast round 3.  It's a pain enough to wait on relatively fast 1st and 2nd rounds with cwj killing runs already.  There shouldnt be any risk to go for it, anyway.  My point before is that it would be a shame to throw away the possibility of fast/fast fast/mid 2rnd due to slightly inadequate missile counts.

I was riffing on the 2 spark gold pirate thing with my (dessys) opening and there's a way to do it only losing 2 seconds for me, although it requires a very good short charge.  Still not sure I like it, although it certainly saves time if you otherwise end up with 6 super or something in a 1 spark strat.

I forgot to mention, the other small side benefit to the xfactor opening on ridley is that if you fail lava spark and have to grav jump, you lose a little less time, but optimally this doesn't matter.

Yes i wouldn't say you used game time strats to get 29, it very much just seemed as you say, holdover strats that were less real time oriented.

I would imagine an optimal in game run would be similar to the current tas, but i can't say i would know for sure.  You are going to lose a decent clip of time splitting upper norfair from lower, still, even in game time.  When's the push to 27?  28 with real time route really isn't too far out of reach, although it would require a pretty godlike run atm.

On another side note, there is now a lot of time to be taken off of low% ice, due to any% developments (as well as twocat and other people's work).  My 53 has like a 14:4x gravity time :P[/quote]

With the orb boost I hold angle down and jump during the door transition. It helps the sub pixel for the correct boost over and holding jump just makes its so you don't have to time it as much just hit back. Try it out it could definitely help with the consistency for that boost.

Speaking of Power Wave Combo will the Kung-Fu Pirates take damage by it? If so I was thinking a possible strategy with that.

Not the current TAS similar to Cpadolfs old Any%. I would still like to see this tested if anyone has the time.

Edit:

Also Zoast have you tried the Zebetite Glitch yet?

zoast

Edit history:

zoast: 2015-02-14 01:36:42 pm

2015-02-14 01:36:05 pm

x factor pirates, boy that's a cool idea

yeah actually , i started trying it after i got my most recent 100% pb. sweetnumb and twocat have been using it at times also. it's a great strat, and it's not that bad to execute, it just scares me to use it in any%. but coupled with varia standup, it saves a pause in 100%, so it's quite useful, and you can do the unmorph blue springball strat or what's been nicknamed blue bomber in the 3rd escape room if you are feeling feisty enough : )

lxx4xNx6xxl

Edit history:

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-14 01:58:42 pm

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-14 01:57:58 pm

2015-02-14 01:57:46 pm

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

Yea not sure how much damage it will do to them but, the idea alone sounds fun to mess around with.

Great I can see why you would be scared in any% because of damage and all. Glad your implementing my strategy in 100% which is mainly what it was meant for anyway. I stick to the Shine Spark personally because its just not worth the time save to blue ball there personally. If your feeling confident with it then by all means go for it.

giganotabehemoth87

2015-02-14 03:00:33 pm

Yeah I've also thought that 28 is now possible with this route, with a real-time of around 42:3x. With current strats this would look like a perfect run from start to finish, balls to the wall, no safe strats anywhere Tongue

Thinking of a fastest game time route I guess bringing Saturns run into the topic won't hurt so we can rule it out or not. Though I have not properly watched this recently to say if anything in it is feasible.

zoast

Edit history:

zoast: 2015-02-14 03:13:12 pm

zoast: 2015-02-14 03:11:02 pm

zoast: 2015-02-14 03:09:30 pm

zoast: 2015-02-14 03:08:47 pm

zoast: 2015-02-14 03:07:09 pm

2015-02-14 03:05:12 pm

it's more feasible than taco and kriole's real time tas, since you get plasma... although ridley fight probably looks similar, so I'm not sure what you'd do about spazer, probably grab it, so pretty similar to real time route ultimately? Space jump, more missiles, stuff like murder beam? lol. Wouldn't think more ammo would be worth it for spazer skip since wrecked ship right super would cost you 15-20 seconds game time. One pain in the ass looking thing is green gate glitch coming out of maridia at the end of the run. It'd be interesting to route, perhaps a lot of routes would be closer to optimal than with real time.

found out also that kung fu pirates have 1800 health and take double damage from supers, so x factor doesn't seem like a possibility there. Undecided

Smokey

Edit history:

Smokey: 2015-02-14 05:16:12 pm

Smokey: 2015-02-14 05:13:36 pm

2015-02-14 05:12:01 pm

Zoasty, I remember you saying in your streams that it was interesting that the TAS game-time route also used WS first: when we were testing PRKD and after we compared it with a theory TAS we did for the old route (it was a 41:59 - 42:00 iirc) we noticed that when we played back both runs, by the time they reached the statues PRKD was actually +15 seconds ahead in in-game time while about +1:30 mins ahead in real time! It's a shame though that this advantage in in-game is lost during mb. So this idea of the game-time route using early WS for console is not so bad, some tests will have to be done with the route 4N6 proposed, although I'm not sure if Behemoth already did that one when we tested PRKD minus wave beam.

giganotabehemoth87

2015-02-14 05:43:35 pm

I think the run that we did that was 15 seconds faster at statues also collected botwoons energy tank, which is definitely slower for game time than collecting Ridley's tank. Which leads me to think that maybe the best game time could simply be WS-LN, just with a massive overhaul of game time strats. Perhaps a few more super packs, completely ignoring the realtime they take to get them, all the x factor stuff as well including all the pauses.

lxx4xNx6xxl

Edit history:

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-14 05:55:48 pm

2015-02-14 05:46:16 pm

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

Quote from giganotabehemoth87:

Yeah I've also thought that 28 is now possible with this route, with a real-time of around 42:3x. With current strats this would look like a perfect run from start to finish, balls to the wall, no safe strats anywhere Tongue

Thinking of a fastest game time route I guess bringing Saturns run into the topic won't hurt so we can rule it out or not. Though I have not properly watched this recently to say if anything in it is feasible.

Its really just the PWC on Ridley which would really make the route impossible in-game faster for us. Route wise I believe Cpadolf's old any% version 2 is the fastest Route for In-Game time. Also would like to know what the real time for us would be.

Quote from zoast:

it's more feasible than taco and kriole's real time tas, since you get plasma... although ridley fight probably looks similar, so I'm not sure what you'd do about spazer, probably grab it, so pretty similar to real time route ultimately? Space jump, more missiles, stuff like murder beam? lol. Wouldn't think more ammo would be worth it for spazer skip since wrecked ship right super would cost you 15-20 seconds game time. One pain in the ass looking thing is green gate glitch coming out of maridia at the end of the run. It'd be interesting to route, perhaps a lot of routes would be closer to optimal than with real time.

found out also that kung fu pirates have 1800 health and take double damage from supers, so x factor doesn't seem like a possibility there. Undecided

I see I was afraid of that. Well the thought was cool thanks for looking into it I forgot Supers do Double Damage like Ridley.

Quote from Smokey:

Zoasty, I remember you saying in your streams that it was interesting that the TAS game-time route also used WS first: when we were testing PRKD and after we compared it with a theory TAS we did for the old route (it was a 41:59 - 42:00 iirc) we noticed that when we played back both runs, by the time they reached the statues PRKD was actually +15 seconds ahead in in-game time while about +1:30 mins ahead in real time! It's a shame though that this advantage in in-game is lost during mb. So this idea of the game-time route using early WS for console is not so bad, some tests will have to be done with the route 4N6 proposed, although I'm not sure if Behemoth already did that one when we tested PRKD minus wave beam.

Yea that is the only route Behemoth hasn't tested also you collect wave for Cpadolf's Route. I definitely think it will be the most optimal for In-Game Console. I'm also curious to see what the Real-Time Difference would be to the current route.

BTW I think its unbelievable how far this game has gotten over these last few years for both Console Runners and TASers alike.

[quote="giganotabehemoth87"]Yeah I've also thought that 28 is now possible with this route, with a real-time of around 42:3x. With current strats this would look like a perfect run from start to finish, balls to the wall, no safe strats anywhere :P

Thinking of a fastest game time route I guess bringing Saturns run into the topic won't hurt so we can rule it out or not. Though I have not properly watched this recently to say if anything in it is feasible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liGge39QoxM[/quote]

Its really just the PWC on Ridley which would really make the route impossible in-game faster for us. Route wise I believe Cpadolf's old any% version 2 is the fastest Route for In-Game time. Also would like to know what the real time for us would be.

[quote="zoast"]it's more feasible than taco and kriole's real time tas, since you get plasma... although ridley fight probably looks similar, so I'm not sure what you'd do about spazer, probably grab it, so pretty similar to real time route ultimately?  Space jump, more missiles, stuff like murder beam?  lol.  Wouldn't think more ammo would be worth it for spazer skip since wrecked ship right super would cost you 15-20 seconds game time.   One pain in the ass looking thing is green gate glitch coming out of maridia at the end of the run.  It'd be interesting to route, perhaps a lot of routes would be closer to optimal than with real time.

found out also that kung fu pirates have 1800 health and take double damage from supers, so x factor doesn't seem like a possibility there. :-\[/quote]

I see I was afraid of that. Well the thought was cool thanks for looking into it I forgot Supers do Double Damage like Ridley.

[quote="Smokey"]Zoasty, I remember you saying in your streams that it was interesting that the TAS game-time route also used WS first: when we were testing PRKD and after we compared it with a theory TAS we did for the old route (it was a 41:59 - 42:00 iirc) we noticed that when we played back both runs, by the time they reached the statues PRKD was actually +15 seconds ahead in in-game time while about +1:30 mins ahead in real time! It's a shame though that this advantage in in-game is lost during mb. So this idea of the game-time route using early WS for console is not so bad, some tests will have to be done with the route 4N6 proposed, although I'm not sure if Behemoth already did that one when we tested PRKD minus wave beam.[/quote]

Yea that is the only route Behemoth hasn't tested also you collect wave for Cpadolf's Route. I definitely think it will be the most optimal for In-Game Console. I'm also curious to see what the Real-Time Difference would be to the current route.

BTW I think its unbelievable how far this game has gotten over these last few years for both Console Runners and TASers alike.

giganotabehemoth87

2015-02-14 05:50:37 pm

Well we tested one very similar called plasma-ice which is exactly the same except ignoring wave beam, but the game time was way up there in high 27. sure it could be improved a bit now but consdering old route gets high 26...

Also your route idea was tested by smokey but we were not happy with the result and wanted to get round to testing it again but we never did. I theorized that it would be similar in time to plasma-ice, but we will get round to this.

lxx4xNx6xxl

Edit history:

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-14 06:26:44 pm

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-14 06:23:40 pm

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-14 06:23:34 pm

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-14 06:23:33 pm

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-14 06:07:50 pm

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-14 06:06:21 pm

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-14 06:01:03 pm

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-14 06:00:46 pm

2015-02-14 05:55:51 pm

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

Quote from giganotabehemoth87:

I think the run that we did that was 15 seconds faster at statues also collected botwoons energy tank, which is definitely slower for game time than collecting Ridley's tank. Which leads me to think that maybe the best game time could simply be WS-LN, just with a massive overhaul of game time strats. Perhaps a few more super packs, completely ignoring the realtime they take to get them, all the x factor stuff as well including all the pauses.

Collecting Super Missiles would be slower In-Game because the are pretty sub-optimal placement wise. You can do both real-time and in-game time tradeoffs as well like Botwoon's E-Tank. Also that might be faster over all because of the Draygon Fight for console.

BTW I think I may have found a faster way to kill Dragon in 3 Rounds then the current triple shine spark method but, slower then the current fastest 2 Rounder Snuffit and I developed.

So you stand at the edge and wait for Draygon to swoop at you and pump him full of Missiles and Super Missiles and then drop on the last Super Missile and start a Short Charge then immediately jump and spark to the left on his next swoop for a Blue Suit. So you can hear if Draygon shoots Gunk so if you hear that you can go right into the fastest method. I haven't fully refined the strategy but, I'm sure it can be a consistent strategy down the road.

Now only if a Double Power Wave Combo was possible to do consistently.

[quote="giganotabehemoth87"]I think the run that we did that was 15 seconds faster at statues also collected botwoons energy tank, which is definitely slower for game time than collecting Ridley's tank. Which leads me to think that maybe the best game time could simply be WS-LN, just with a massive overhaul of game time strats. Perhaps a few more super packs, completely ignoring the realtime they take to get them, all the x factor stuff as well including all the pauses.[/quote]

Collecting Super Missiles would be slower In-Game because the are pretty sub-optimal placement wise. You can do both real-time and in-game time tradeoffs as well like Botwoon's E-Tank. Also that might be faster over all because of the Draygon Fight for console.

BTW I think I may have found a faster way to kill Dragon in 3 Rounds then the current triple shine spark method but, slower then the current fastest 2 Rounder Snuffit and I developed.

So you stand at the edge and wait for Draygon to swoop at you and pump him full of Missiles and Super Missiles and then drop on the last Super Missile and start a Short Charge then immediately jump and spark to the left on his next swoop for a Blue Suit. So you can hear if Draygon shoots Gunk so if you hear that you can go right into the fastest method. I haven't fully refined the strategy but, I'm sure it can be a consistent strategy down the road.

Now only if a Double Power Wave Combo was possible to do consistently.

giganotabehemoth87

2015-02-14 06:28:05 pm

I guess using supers on Draygon in this fashion would be less strenuous on the run if the route went to lower Norfair after Maridia instead of going to Tourian.

lxx4xNx6xxl

Edit history:

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-14 11:02:54 pm

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-14 07:07:11 pm

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-14 07:06:10 pm

2015-02-14 07:03:31 pm

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

Quote from giganotabehemoth87:

Well we tested one very similar called plasma-ice which is exactly the same except ignoring wave beam, but the game time was way up there in high 27. sure it could be improved a bit now but consdering old route gets high 26...

Also your route idea was tested by smokey but we were not happy with the result and wanted to get round to testing it again but we never did. I theorized that it would be similar in time to plasma-ice, but we will get round to this.

Wave Beam collection would be most optimal for many reasons. This route certainly needs to be tested in a theory TAS for sure.

Quote from giganotabehemoth87:

I guess using supers on Draygon in this fashion would be less strenuous on the run if the route went to lower Norfair after Maridia instead of going to Tourian.

It could also be used in the current Any% Route as well.

Also Kraid to lower Norfair I believe would be faster. Though you could do Kraid after Ridely but, I think that would be slower overall for us. Plus you collect Super Missiles from Mini Kraid for LN.

[quote="giganotabehemoth87"]Well we tested one very similar called plasma-ice which is exactly the same except ignoring wave beam, but the game time was way up there in high 27. sure it could be improved a bit now but consdering old route gets high 26...

Also your route idea was tested by smokey but we were not happy with the result and wanted to get round to testing it again but we never did. I theorized that it would be similar in time to plasma-ice, but we will get round to this.[/quote]

Wave Beam collection would be most optimal for many reasons. This route certainly needs to be tested in a theory TAS for sure.

[quote="giganotabehemoth87"]I guess using supers on Draygon in this fashion would be less strenuous on the run if the route went to lower Norfair after Maridia instead of going to Tourian.[/quote]

It could also be used in the current Any% Route as well.

Also Kraid to lower Norfair I believe would be faster. Though you could do Kraid after Ridely but, I think that would be slower overall for us. Plus you collect Super Missiles from Mini Kraid for LN.

giganotabehemoth87

2015-02-15 11:05:05 am

Would it be possible for you to provide an smv of this on snes9x 1.52 ?