Rosenkreuzstilette/Freudenstachel

Arkhanno

Edit history:

Arkhanno: 2012-12-05 11:11:42 am

Arkhanno: 2012-12-05 11:10:52 am

2012-12-05 11:09:53 am

I'm really sad that you guys aren't taking advantage of Eisschwert still. I've tried for the past few hours to get a replay of Grolla's stage first to show that it really isn't that much faster to do Grolla last, but since I suck at playing Mega Man styled games I keep dying in terrible places which loses a lot of time. Sad

I will say that my best time for getting to Grolla's second door is 1:57, based on the replay timer.

So I've come back with some math. I've taken a look at Vucious' replay pack to find out the times (based on the replay timer) for Luste's stage and Grolla's stage. While I know the replay timer isn't accurate I'd like to challenge you guys to try doing Grolla > Luste to see if you can beat the times I give below.

Luste's stage:
0:10 is when Vucious gains control
1:38 is when Vucious entered the second door to fight Luste
1:47 is when Luste's fight starts (as in when you gain control)
2:18 is when Luste is killed.
Total time of player control in Luste's stage: 2:08

Grolla's stage:
15:01 is when Vucious gains control
16:25 is when Vucious enters the second door to fight Grolla
16:35 is when Grolla's fight starts
16:55 is when Grolla is killed.
Total time of player control in Grolla's stage: 1:54

Some things I noticed while trying to get a replay of Grolla's stage:
- The fastest you can be the miniboss in Grolla's stage if you don't have any other weapons is the after three sets of fireballs/lasers. It isn't that hard to dodge them either. Proper spacing is all you really need.
- It is quite possible to do the long red room without taking any damage and still sliding pretty much everywhere. I just suck and my hands don't work that way.
- Doing the Grolla fight with Freudenstachel isn't exactly that slow. Freudenstachel and Weißteufel should give about the same time for Grolla's fight.

And since I don't want to just throw you guys to the wolves to figure out everything for this challenge I'm going to take screenshots of Vucious' replay of where I feel Eisschwert would be useful in Luste's stage.

You can freeze both enemies and their projectiles allowing you to slide through this room

You can freeze the ball and skull to prevent stopping on the ladder and potentially getting hit

For this last one I don't know if this is possible to do, but it looks like it could be. You should be able to freeze the pop-up type enemy and use it as a platform to get to the top set of platforms.

I'm really sad that you guys aren't taking advantage of Eisschwert still. I've tried for the past few hours to get a replay of Grolla's stage first to show that it really isn't that much faster to do Grolla last, but since I suck at playing Mega Man styled games I keep dying in terrible places which loses a lot of time. :( I will say that my best time for getting to Grolla's second door is 1:57, based on the replay timer.

So I've come back with some math. I've taken a look at Vucious' replay pack to find out the times (based on the replay timer) for Luste's stage and Grolla's stage. While I know the replay timer isn't accurate I'd like to challenge you guys to try doing Grolla > Luste to see if you can beat the times I give below.

Luste's stage:
0:10 is when Vucious gains control
1:38 is when Vucious entered the second door to fight Luste
1:47 is when Luste's fight starts (as in when you gain control)
2:18 is when Luste is killed.
Total time of player control in Luste's stage: 2:08

Grolla's stage:
15:01 is when Vucious gains control
16:25 is when Vucious enters the second door to fight Grolla
16:35 is when Grolla's fight starts
16:55 is when Grolla is killed.
Total time of player control in Grolla's stage: 1:54

Some things I noticed while trying to get a replay of Grolla's stage: 
- The fastest you can be the miniboss in Grolla's stage if you don't have any other weapons is the after three sets of fireballs/lasers. It isn't that hard to dodge them either. Proper spacing is all you really need.
- It is quite possible to do the long red room without taking any damage and still sliding pretty much everywhere. I just suck and my hands don't work that way.
- Doing the Grolla fight with Freudenstachel isn't exactly that slow. Freudenstachel and Weißteufel should give about the same time for Grolla's fight.

And since I don't want to just throw you guys to the wolves to figure out everything for this challenge I'm going to take screenshots of Vucious' replay of where I feel Eisschwert would be useful in Luste's stage.

You can freeze both enemies and their projectiles allowing you to slide through this room

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/RhveR.png[/IMG]

You can freeze the ball and skull to prevent stopping on the ladder and potentially getting hit

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/109nG.png[/IMG]

For this last one I don't know if this is possible to do, but it looks like it could be. You should be able to freeze the pop-up type enemy and use it as a platform to get to the top set of platforms.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/3Ruzg.png[/IMG]

nate

2012-12-05 01:47:41 pm

Quote:

Hm, I'm not sure I see where you're going with that. If possible or whenever available, I would like to see how early you summon the Fruegel so I can get a visual on this strat.

Quote:

Heh, yeah. That was funny, but looking back on it, I wonder if it's truly faster than running along with the wind assuming you run through the platforming and enemy obstacles smoothly. That might be something to look into if it hasn't already.

oops, yeah. forgot all about that. both 072 and i do that since you rarely have to stop and the tailwind speedup gives you twice the velocity as you have on the fruegel.

Quote:

Thanks, but it's not perfect. Getting caught in that small corner negated the full effect of what the slow time could do. If that was executed to its full effect, I can maintain to the very end of the stage and beat the first of the last two ghost skulls to the last set of rising platforms, in which, by that time, the time slow will end and I can just focus on beating the second one near the boss door.

you don't have to use the time stopper to beat the first skull though. you can just slide and then jump onto the rising ivy. it's not as hard as it sounds.

Quote:

You might need to show this as I reviewed your run, and it didn't show what you are saying. It would be quite interesting to see this in action to get a better understanding.

also, my rl fight:

my trau fight:

[quote]Hm, I'm not sure I see where you're going with that.  If possible or whenever available, I would like to see how early you summon the Fruegel so I can get a visual on this strat.[/quote]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW_WGptYVlI&feature=plcp

[quote]Heh, yeah.  That was funny, but looking back on it, I wonder if it's truly faster than running along with the wind assuming you run through the platforming and enemy obstacles smoothly.  That might be something to look into if it hasn't already.[/quote]
oops, yeah. forgot all about that. both 072 and i do that since you rarely have to stop and the tailwind speedup gives you twice the velocity as you have on the fruegel.

[quote]Thanks, but it's not perfect.  Getting caught in that small corner negated the full effect of what the slow time could do.  If that was executed to its full effect, I can maintain to the very end of the stage and beat the first of the last two ghost skulls to the last set of rising platforms, in which, by that time, the time slow will end and I can just focus on beating the second one near the boss door.[/quote]
you don't have to use the time stopper to beat the first skull though. you can just slide and then jump onto the rising ivy. it's not as hard as it sounds.

[quote]You might need to show this as I reviewed your run, and it didn't show what you are saying.  It would be quite interesting to see this in action to get a better understanding.[/quote]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKnNHwkc6WU&feature=plcp

also, my rl fight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zXE93kn7ws&feature=plcp

my trau fight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKF6R_QF8iA&feature=plcp

Vucious Creed

Edit history:

Vucious Creed: 2012-12-05 02:43:31 pm

Vucious Creed: 2012-12-05 02:42:57 pm

Vucious Creed: 2012-12-05 02:39:15 pm

2012-12-05 02:35:32 pm

Glad my fanboy lvls aren't THIS high

Well, that's not entirely true. Here's the thing: I've been doing both routes with doing Grolla first with Luste second AND doing Luste first with Grolla last. It just happens that I did the "Luste first" route and ended up with a run with it. All of the pictures of shortcuts you've found with the Eisschwert, except for the third, are ones that I already use. And that's not to mention other major and/or areas that would benefit from Eissschwert, such as the first screens of Zorne's stage (using Schwer's weapon is more of a hassle to time than using Eisschwert), the area screen with the three shooting starfish cannons in Trauare's stage (don't have to wait for shots to fire before reaching the ladder to avoid getting hit), and possibly some portions of Dolis' stage dealing with the dryads and the small Toad Man-shaped "Fleas" Of course, using it to ignore a few other enemies can provide some uses as well; using a charged Eisschwert on the first few enemies in Schwer's stage is an example of that.

What I'm not sure about is if the sum of those time savers would gain more time than doing Grolla last since it is a decently long stage without the the Zwinger and the Fluegel. There are several factors that can determine this, and a lot of it is on the Grolla and Luste boss fights. So, I want to quickly overview the fights with the Stachel alone and with their respective weaknesses.

Grolla vs. Luste - Using Stachel Alone:
I honestly think that Grolla is a slightly longer boss fight with the Stachel mostly because she jumps a hell of a lot, and she can get sword dash crazy at times which blocks the Stachel with addition to another follow-up jump when finished with dash slashing, and that's not going into her second phase when she's in the air for a decent period of time to use her Grollschwert. The best-case scenario is if she doesn't do her dash slashing at all, but she'll still spend a lot of time jumping around where you can't hit her. As for Luste, you're more more likely to land consistant hits on her as while she jumps a lot as well, she's not so high that you can get a shot on her until she's completely at one side of the room to shoot at all angles. I would also consider her second phase slightly faster, but not without risk as the rising platforms will determine how fast the the rest of the fight goes. If the best-case scenario occurs and the platforms cooperately appear where you are, then beating Luste will definitely be faster than Grolla. Heck even a bad platform pattern might be close to equal to an "average" Grolla fight if quick enough, from my experience.

Grolla vs. Luste - With Weaknesses:
Again, I'll have to put Grolla as the slower fight. While using Sichte's weapon will make the fight significanly faster, we still have to be aware about how the slow down will affect Grolla's "jump crazy" nature. In fact, it may make it worse since it will take longer for her to get down. So the question would be is it worth the longer air time to have a quicker kill, in which it will undoubtedly be. On the bright side, though, you can shoot through her dash slashes wihich will be a tremendous help. Of course, for Luste, all you have to do is fire an Eisschwert an she's stuck in place taking damage over time. Coming into the boss room with a full charged Eisschwert will also have a huge effect as you will strike her immediately once the fight starts when you relase it. There's also the fact that you can defeat Luste even before she can start her second phase.

With this, both styles of fighting favors Luste, but that still leaves the question is if these boss fights, depending on who you choose do deal with first, will change the time savings for either having the Eisschwerts early or having the weapons/Fluegel for Grolla. That still leave to be determined. I want to say that there won't be much of a time difference in terms of Luste's stage with the Eisschwert, but for everywhere else, it's up in the air.

EDIT: Thanks for the reference videos, nate. The Zorne and Pamela strats are simple enough to follow, but at the beginning of Pamela's stage pretty much reminds me of a question I forgot to mention: aren't sliding and using the Fluegel close to the same speed? If this is the case, then would it matter where you summon the Fluegel?

Well, that's not entirely true.  Here's the thing: I've been doing both routes with doing Grolla first with Luste second AND doing Luste first with Grolla last.  It just happens that I did the "Luste first" route and ended up with a run with it.  All of the pictures of shortcuts you've found with the Eisschwert, except for the third, are ones that I already use.  And that's not to mention other major and/or areas that would benefit from Eissschwert, such as the first screens of Zorne's stage (using Schwer's weapon is more of a hassle to time than using Eisschwert), the area screen with the three shooting starfish cannons in Trauare's stage (don't have to wait for shots to fire before reaching the ladder to avoid getting hit), and possibly some portions of Dolis' stage dealing with the dryads and the small Toad Man-shaped "Fleas"  Of course, using it to ignore a few other enemies can provide some uses as well; using a charged Eisschwert on the first few enemies in Schwer's stage is an example of that.

What I'm not sure about is if the sum of those time savers would gain more time than doing Grolla last since it is a decently long stage without the the Zwinger and the Fluegel.  There are several factors that can determine this, and a lot of it is on the Grolla and Luste boss fights.  So, I want to quickly overview the fights with the Stachel alone and with their respective weaknesses.

[u][b]Grolla vs. Luste - Using Stachel Alone:[/b][/u]
I honestly think that Grolla is a slightly longer boss fight with the Stachel mostly because she jumps a hell of a lot, and she can get sword dash crazy at times which blocks the Stachel with addition to another follow-up jump when finished with dash slashing, and that's not going into her second phase when she's in the air for a decent period of time to use her Grollschwert.  The best-case scenario is if she doesn't do her dash slashing at all, but she'll still spend a lot of time jumping around where you can't hit her.  As for Luste, you're more more likely to land consistant hits on her as while she jumps a lot as well, she's not so high that you can get a shot on her until she's completely at one side of the room to shoot at all angles.  I would also consider her second phase slightly faster, but not without risk as the rising platforms will determine how fast the the rest of the fight goes.  If the best-case scenario occurs and the platforms cooperately appear where you are, then beating Luste will definitely be faster than Grolla.  Heck even a bad platform pattern might be close to equal to an "average" Grolla fight if quick enough, from my experience.

[u][b]Grolla vs. Luste - With Weaknesses:[/b][/u]
Again, I'll have to put Grolla as the slower fight.  While using Sichte's weapon will make the fight significanly faster, we still have to be aware about how the slow down will affect Grolla's "jump crazy" nature.  In fact, it may make it worse since it will take longer for her to get down.  So the question would be is it worth the longer air time to have a quicker kill, in which it will undoubtedly be.  On the bright side, though, you can shoot through her dash slashes wihich will be a tremendous help.  Of course, for Luste, all you have to do is fire an Eisschwert an she's stuck in place taking damage over time.  Coming into the boss room with a full charged Eisschwert will also have a huge effect as you will strike her immediately once the fight starts when you relase it.  There's also the fact that you can defeat Luste even before she can start her second phase.

With this, both styles of fighting favors Luste, but that still leaves the question is if these boss fights, depending on who you choose do deal with first, will change the time savings for either having the Eisschwerts early or having the weapons/Fluegel for Grolla.  That still leave to be determined.  I want to say that there won't be much of a time difference in terms of Luste's stage with the Eisschwert, but for everywhere else, it's up in the air.

EDIT: Thanks for the reference videos, nate.  The Zorne and Pamela strats are simple enough to follow, but at the beginning of Pamela's stage pretty much reminds me of a question I forgot to mention: aren't sliding and using the Fluegel close to the same speed?  If this is the case, then would it matter where you summon the Fluegel?

nate

2012-12-05 02:51:20 pm

i always thought that riding was the same speed as walking and sliding was faster.

btw, you don't have to wait for those starfish to fire in trau's stage. just slide over and jump up.

Arkhanno

2012-12-05 09:43:17 pm

Quote from Vucious Creed:

What I'm not sure about is if the sum of those time savers would gain more time than doing Grolla last since it is a decently long stage without the the Zwinger and the Fluegel. There are several factors that can determine this, and a lot of it is on the Grolla and Luste boss fights.

With this, both styles of fighting favors Luste, but that still leaves the question is if these boss fights, depending on who you choose do deal with first, will change the time savings for either having the Eisschwerts early or having the weapons/Fluegel for Grolla. That still leave to be determined. I want to say that there won't be much of a time difference in terms of Luste's stage with the Eisschwert, but for everywhere else, it's up in the air.

That's the reason I'm asking you guys, who are more skilled at Mega Man styled games than I am, to test this. If we can get numbers down to see which is faster then we can work with it and design more optimized routes for the boss chain.

I know that Eisschwert won't save more than 2 seconds in Luste's stage, but those seconds add up over the other stages. If the numbers are close to the 4:02 total (Luste+Grolla stage times) that I posted above then I'd be willing to go back and look through the rest of the stages to find out where Eisschwert could be used to save time. Eisschwert is the most broken weapon in the game; it makes me sad that it doesn't play a larger role.

[quote="Vucious Creed"]What I'm not sure about is if the sum of those time savers would gain more time than doing Grolla last since it is a decently long stage without the the Zwinger and the Fluegel.  There are several factors that can determine this, and a lot of it is on the Grolla and Luste boss fights.

With this, both styles of fighting favors Luste, but that still leaves the question is if these boss fights, depending on who you choose do deal with first, will change the time savings for either having the Eisschwerts early or having the weapons/Fluegel for Grolla.  That still leave to be determined.  I want to say that there won't be much of a time difference in terms of Luste's stage with the Eisschwert, but for everywhere else, it's up in the air.[/quote]

That's the reason I'm asking you guys, who are more skilled at Mega Man styled games than I am, to test this. If we can get numbers down to see which is faster then we can work with it and design more optimized routes for the boss chain.

I know that Eisschwert won't save more than 2 seconds in Luste's stage, but those seconds add up over the other stages. If the numbers are close to the 4:02 total (Luste+Grolla stage times) that I posted above then I'd be willing to go back and look through the rest of the stages to find out where Eisschwert could be used to save time. Eisschwert is the most broken weapon in the game; it makes me sad that it doesn't play a larger role.

Vucious Creed

Edit history:

Vucious Creed: 2012-12-06 05:36:09 pm

2012-12-06 05:30:17 pm

Glad my fanboy lvls aren't THIS high

Okay, so I did Grolla's and Luste's stages using the "Grolla First" routing. I wanted to do both stages in one replay, but decided to do Luste's stage seperately, via password, so I don't have to keep on redoing Grolla's stage over again just to do it all in one sitting if I messed up at Luste's. Of course, there are still some minor improvable parts, but I'm sure these will serve their purposes quite well. You can check the replays in the attachments. However, I will say this:

Quote from Arkhanno:

For this last one I don't know if this is possible to do, but it looks like it could be. You should be able to freeze the pop-up type enemy and use it as a platform to get to the top set of platforms.

I don't think I'll do this one. I don't see any way how freezing the Pop-up enemy will help. You need to have it decently high to reach the upper platforms, and by then, I would have already have used that particular rising platform to get up there from what I've tried. Maybe someone else can interject and see if they have a better plan for it because I do not. Anyway, here are the replays for you to review.

Okay, so I did Grolla's and Luste's stages using the "Grolla First" routing.  I wanted to do both stages in one replay, but decided to do Luste's stage seperately, via password, so I don't have to keep on redoing Grolla's stage over again just to do it all in one sitting if I messed up at Luste's.  Of course, there are still some minor improvable parts, but I'm sure these will serve their purposes quite well.  You can check the replays in the attachments.  However, I will say this:

[quote="Arkhanno"]
For this last one I don't know if this is possible to do, but it looks like it could be. You should be able to freeze the pop-up type enemy and use it as a platform to get to the top set of platforms.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/3Ruzg.png[/IMG][/quote]
I don't think I'll do this one.  I don't see any way how freezing the Pop-up enemy will help.  You need to have it decently high to reach the upper platforms, and by then, I would have already have used that particular rising platform to get up there from what I've tried.  Maybe someone else can interject and see if they have a better plan for it because I do not.  Anyway, here are the replays for you to review.

Attachments:

VC_Grolla_Comparison_103a.rpy

VC_Luste_Comparison_103a.rpy

Arkhanno

2012-12-07 03:10:38 pm

I've watched both replays to get the times. One thing I'd like to point out before I post the times: you didn't have the best of luck in Grolla's stage. The miniboss kept moving forwards which made you lose a few seconds. I'll post the times in the same order as last time to make things easier to compare.

Luste's stage:
0:10 is when Vucious gains control
1:37 is when Vucious entered the second door to fight Luste
1:46 is when Luste's fight starts (as in when you gain control)
1:57 is when Luste is killed.
Total time of player control in Luste's stage: 1:47

Grolla's stage:
0:10 is when Vucious gains control
1:40 is when Vucious enters the second door to fight Grolla
1:51 is when Grolla's fight starts
2:23 is when Grolla is killed.
Total time of player control in Grolla's stage: 2:13

Total player control time between the two stages: 4:00

Now onto the improvements that can be made to make the full run even smoother. These will be based off of Vucious' replay pack that he posted earlier.

Grolla's stage:
- Early on in the stage there's two skeletons that fire three shots at you before a snake spawner. It is possible to jump inbetween the shots instead of falling down and dodging them completely. It's tricky to pull off, but it's possible.
( For reference. Yes, I know I'm terrible at this game. I learned that my antivirus was doing a scan in the background while I was recording that, so sorry about the lag.)
- Something I didn't do in the video above (Because I kinda forgot to) was after you enter the miniboss room if you move forward one step you should be able to dodge the fireballs and laser without moving too far ahead with your jump. As long as he cooperates then you should be able to kill him somewhere before or during when he fires his 4th set of fireballs.
- During the second phase of Grolla's fight jumping between the horizontal lasers to hit Grolla on the way down would be better.

Luste's stage:
- I don't know if this would be faster or not, but it might be better to use Eisschwert on the first set of pop-up enemies.
- It might also be possible to get through the second rising platform section one cycle faster if you stay closer to the walls.

Dolis' stage:
- Eisschwert the Dryads~ (The only ones that wouldn't be frozen would be the second one [In the large vertical section] and the one you fly over right before Dolis)
- I prefer to use Eisschwert on the three Frog Men after the the tree miniboss, but Kopiekreisel works well there too.

Liebea's stage:
- In the second half of the stage is it possible to use Strudel's Frügel to get under the long set of breakable ice platforms?

Sichte's stage:
- Freezing the first ball throwing skeleton in the room with all the moving platforms/Medusa Heads would probably be better because then you could just keep sliding.
- Freeze the Gargoyle Statue right before Sichte (although that should be obvious lol)

Lecht & Rink's stage:
- Freeze the Metool-like enemy in the first part of the dark section

Eifer's stage:
- It would probably be faster to fly over the first set of rising platforms

Iris 2:
- Possibly Strudel's Frügel in the room where the ceiling an floor are on fire and you have to jump on invisible platforms. There's weapon energy right after it since you'll need it. (I don't know if this will be faster so it'll need to be timed.)

That's all the improvements I can see outside of better execution in general.

I've watched both replays to get the times. One thing I'd like to point out before I post the times: you didn't have the best of luck in Grolla's stage. The miniboss kept moving forwards which made you lose a few seconds. I'll post the times in the same order as last time to make things easier to compare.

Luste's stage:
0:10 is when Vucious gains control
1:37 is when Vucious entered the second door to fight Luste
1:46 is when Luste's fight starts (as in when you gain control)
1:57 is when Luste is killed.
Total time of player control in Luste's stage: 1:47

Grolla's stage:
0:10 is when Vucious gains control
1:40 is when Vucious enters the second door to fight Grolla
1:51 is when Grolla's fight starts
2:23 is when Grolla is killed.
Total time of player control in Grolla's stage: 2:13

Total player control time between the two stages: 4:00

Now onto the improvements that can be made to make the full run even smoother. These will be based off of Vucious' replay pack that he posted earlier.

Grolla's stage:
- Early on in the stage there's two skeletons that fire three shots at you before a snake spawner. It is possible to jump inbetween the shots instead of falling down and dodging them completely. It's tricky to pull off, but it's possible. 
( http://youtu.be/4VHXwOa6Iqk For reference. Yes, I know I'm terrible at this game. I learned that my antivirus was doing a scan in the background while I was recording that, so sorry about the lag.)
- Something I didn't do in the video above (Because I kinda forgot to) was after you enter the miniboss room if you move forward one step you should be able to dodge the fireballs and laser without moving too far ahead with your jump. As long as he cooperates then you should be able to kill him somewhere before or during when he fires his 4th set of fireballs.
- During the second phase of Grolla's fight jumping between the horizontal lasers to hit Grolla on the way down would be better.

Luste's stage:
- I don't know if this would be faster or not, but it might be better to use Eisschwert on the first set of pop-up enemies.
- It might also be possible to get through the second rising platform section one cycle faster if you stay closer to the walls.

Dolis' stage:
- Eisschwert the Dryads~ (The only ones that wouldn't be frozen would be the second one [In the large vertical section] and the one you fly over right before Dolis)
- I prefer to use Eisschwert on the three Frog Men after the the tree miniboss, but Kopiekreisel works well there too.

Liebea's stage:
- In the second half of the stage is it possible to use Strudel's Frügel to get under the long set of breakable ice platforms?

Sichte's stage:
- Freezing the first ball throwing skeleton in the room with all the moving platforms/Medusa Heads would probably be better because then you could just keep sliding.
- Freeze the Gargoyle Statue right before Sichte (although that should be obvious lol)

Lecht & Rink's stage:
- Freeze the Metool-like enemy in the first part of the dark section

Eifer's stage:
- It would probably be faster to fly over the first set of rising platforms

Iris 2:
- Possibly Strudel's Frügel in the room where the ceiling an floor are on fire and you have to jump on invisible platforms. There's weapon energy right after it since you'll need it. (I don't know if this will be faster so it'll need to be timed.)

That's all the improvements I can see outside of better execution in general.

Vucious Creed

Edit history:

Vucious Creed: 2012-12-08 06:39:24 pm

Vucious Creed: 2012-12-08 06:38:09 pm

2012-12-07 07:49:06 pm

Glad my fanboy lvls aren't THIS high

Quote from Arkhanno:

Grolla's stage:
- Early on in the stage there's two skeletons that fire three shots at you before a snake spawner. It is possible to jump inbetween the shots instead of falling down and dodging them completely. It's tricky to pull off, but it's possible.
( For reference. Yes, I know I'm terrible at this game. I learned that my antivirus was doing a scan in the background while I was recording that, so sorry about the lag.)
- Something I didn't do in the video above (Because I kinda forgot to) was after you enter the miniboss room if you move forward one step you should be able to dodge the fireballs and laser without moving too far ahead with your jump. As long as he cooperates then you should be able to kill him somewhere before or during when he fires his 4th set of fireballs.
- During the second phase of Grolla's fight jumping between the horizontal lasers to hit Grolla on the way down would be better.

-"Tricky to pull off?" More like a complete pain in the ass to pull off, lol. Seriously though, it's a really tight squeeze, or feels like it at the very least since I'm inconsistant on the jump. I'll still keep trying it, but I might just stick with stalling for a bit in a serious run until I feel comfortable enough to implement it.
-I almost failed to see how in the world you pulled off a three-round miniboss, but then I destroyed it in the middle of its fourth round, so the strat is sound enough. Like the projectile jump, I'll keep trying it until I get the pattern right, but just keep going if I fail .
-Yes, I completely agree. Jumping over the horizontal Grollschwert slashes is very simple and Grolla can be hit on the way down easily enough. This will be used from now on.

Quote:

Luste's stage:
- I don't know if this would be faster or not, but it might be better to use Eisschwert on the first set of pop-up enemies.
- It might also be possible to get through the second rising platform section one cycle faster if you stay closer to the walls.

-I've tried it, and it's no faster than doing the current method if done cleanly. Not to mention it carries more risks as you're basically need to get very close to said pop-up enemies to get a proper freeze. One bad miscue and it's down to the abyss. It has merit, but since it's no faster and carries a higher risk than the current strat, I don't think it's worth it.
-It is possible to do it a cycle faster, but the timing is tight. The issue is more about getting good sliding and not stalling at all which will nullify your sliding rhythm and getting crushed right before the final long set of destroyable debris.

Quote:

Dolis' stage:
- Eisschwert the Dryads~ (The only ones that wouldn't be frozen would be the second one [In the large vertical section] and the one you fly over right before Dolis)
- I prefer to use Eisschwert on the three Frog Men after the the tree miniboss, but Kopiekreisel works well there too.

-Pretty much the idea I had from the get-go as far as Eisschwert strats. We're in complete agreement on both counts.

Quote:

Liebea's stage:
- In the second half of the stage is it possible to use Strudel's Frügel to get under the long set of breakable ice platforms?

-It's not necessarily about if it's possible, because I'm sure it is. It's about getting the best possible speed through that area; which brings me to a point that I brought up about comparing the difference in sliding speed and Frügel speed in discussing nate's Frügel strat at the beginning of Pamela's stage. Also, by conjunction, I need to include walking speed in to the mix to make my point. In short, it goes like this: Sliding speed > Frügel speed > Walking speed. No two types of speed are the same, period. This is for the sake of clarification. (Which is why I'm going to change some strats to account for this fact.)

That being said, while I believe Frügel strat is possible, it isn't faster than sliding on top of the breakable platforms, even up to the end where you might have to slow down a bit to make the final platform break. Also, this will drain more Frügel energy and may compromise the final flight to the end due to insufficient energy.

Quote:

Sichte's stage:
- Freezing the first ball throwing skeleton in the room with all the moving platforms/Medusa Heads would probably be better because then you could just keep sliding.
- Freeze the Gargoyle Statue right before Sichte (although that should be obvious lol)

-If what you're talking about is what I think you're talking about, then I misunderstood what you were saying at first. For some reason I thought you meant sliding through the whole area after freezing the first skeleton, lol. But I'm sure that's not what you mean, and sliding after freezing the skeleton is something I agree with. (Seriously, I don't know why I thought what I first thought. Tongue

)
-Yep, completely obvious, heh, heh.

Quote:

Lecht & Rink's stage:
- Freeze the Metool-like enemy in the first part of the dark section

Completely unnecessary. One good slide jump will completely let you fly over the Met without any hassle.

Quote:

Eifer's stage:
- It would probably be faster to fly over the first set of rising platforms

Eh, urm... not really. It's clearly faster than walking though it, and much safer, but sliding is still the way to go on this one despite the heightened risk. If you can slide over the first gap (which is very much possible, but tricky to do), you can keep some of that slide speed until the next major gap. And even with that bit of slowing down to adjust for the gap, the time gained by those first several slides should compensate for the time saved in using the Frügel.

Quote:

Iris 2:
- Possibly Strudel's Frügel in the room where the ceiling an floor are on fire and you have to jump on invisible platforms. There's weapon energy right after it since you'll need it. (I don't know if this will be faster so it'll need to be timed.)

-This is the only strat I haven't tested yet, but just to make a wild guess, I want to believe that the time to do this strat in comparison to the current strat might not be that different. So if this is to be the case, then I'll just be wasting time getting the weapon energy back for it. But as I said, this is only a guess before I do this for real, so I can be pretty wrong on this one. Once I try it out and time it officially (unless someone else is able to get the info before me), then I'll make an official conclusion on this plan.

EDIT: In finally trying the new Frügel strat for Iris 2, I've determined that there is not that much difference in time between said new strat in comparison with the old one. In fact, the new strat is slightly slower by at least a second. The time lost in grabbing the weapon energy (which is necessary to get for using the Frügel in Iris 3) cancels out any time that might have been gained if I hadn't needed to. So unfortunately, this isn't a viable option in the run, but it was definitely an interesting strat to try out in spite of that.

[quote="Arkhanno"]Grolla's stage:
- Early on in the stage there's two skeletons that fire three shots at you before a snake spawner. It is possible to jump inbetween the shots instead of falling down and dodging them completely. It's tricky to pull off, but it's possible. 
( http://youtu.be/4VHXwOa6Iqk For reference. Yes, I know I'm terrible at this game. I learned that my antivirus was doing a scan in the background while I was recording that, so sorry about the lag.)
- Something I didn't do in the video above (Because I kinda forgot to) was after you enter the miniboss room if you move forward one step you should be able to dodge the fireballs and laser without moving too far ahead with your jump. As long as he cooperates then you should be able to kill him somewhere before or during when he fires his 4th set of fireballs.
- During the second phase of Grolla's fight jumping between the horizontal lasers to hit Grolla on the way down would be better.[/quote]
-"Tricky to pull off?"  More like a complete pain in the ass to pull off, lol.  Seriously though, it's a really tight squeeze, or feels like it at the very least since I'm inconsistant on the jump.  I'll still keep trying it, but I might just stick with stalling for a bit in a serious run until I feel comfortable enough to implement it.
-I almost failed to see how in the world you pulled off a three-round miniboss, but then I destroyed it in the middle of its fourth round, so the strat is sound enough.  Like the projectile jump, I'll keep trying it until I get the pattern right, but just keep going if I fail .
-Yes, I completely agree.  Jumping over the horizontal Grollschwert slashes is very simple and Grolla can be hit on the way down easily enough.  This will be used from now on.

[quote]Luste's stage:
- I don't know if this would be faster or not, but it might be better to use Eisschwert on the first set of pop-up enemies.
- It might also be possible to get through the second rising platform section one cycle faster if you stay closer to the walls.[/quote]
-I've tried it, and it's no faster than doing the current method if done cleanly.  Not to mention it carries more risks as you're basically need to get very close to said pop-up enemies to get a proper freeze.  One bad miscue and it's down to the abyss.  It has merit, but since it's no faster and carries a higher risk than the current strat, I don't think it's worth it.
-It is possible to do it a cycle faster, but the timing is tight.  The issue is more about getting good sliding and not stalling at all which will nullify your sliding rhythm and getting crushed right before the final long set of destroyable debris.

[quote]Dolis' stage:
- Eisschwert the Dryads~ (The only ones that wouldn't be frozen would be the second one [In the large vertical section] and the one you fly over right before Dolis)
- I prefer to use Eisschwert on the three Frog Men after the the tree miniboss, but Kopiekreisel works well there too.[/quote]
-Pretty much the idea I had from the get-go as far as Eisschwert strats.  We're in complete agreement on both counts.

[quote]Liebea's stage:
- In the second half of the stage is it possible to use Strudel's Frügel to get under the long set of breakable ice platforms?[/quote]
-It's not necessarily about if it's possible, because I'm sure it is.  It's about getting the best possible speed through that area; which brings me to a point that I brought up about comparing the difference in sliding speed and Frügel speed in discussing nate's Frügel strat at the beginning of Pamela's stage.  Also, by conjunction, I need to include walking speed in to the mix to make my point.  In short, it goes like this: [b]Sliding speed > Frügel speed > Walking speed[/b].  No two types of speed are the same, period.  This is for the sake of clarification.  (Which is why I'm going to change some strats to account for this fact.)

That being said, while I believe Frügel strat is possible, it isn't faster than sliding on top of the breakable platforms, even up to the end where you might have to slow down a bit to make the final platform break.  Also, this will drain more Frügel energy and may compromise the final flight to the end due to insufficient energy.

[quote]Sichte's stage:
- Freezing the first ball throwing skeleton in the room with all the moving platforms/Medusa Heads would probably be better because then you could just keep sliding.
- Freeze the Gargoyle Statue right before Sichte (although that should be obvious lol)[/quote]
-If what you're talking about is what I think you're talking about, then I misunderstood what you were saying at first.  For some reason I thought you meant sliding through the whole area after freezing the first skeleton, lol.  But I'm sure that's not what you mean, and sliding after freezing the skeleton is something I agree with.  (Seriously, I don't know why I thought what I first thought. :P )
-Yep, completely obvious, heh, heh.

[quote]Lecht & Rink's stage:
- Freeze the Metool-like enemy in the first part of the dark section[/quote]
Completely unnecessary.  One good slide jump will completely let you fly over the Met without any hassle.

[quote]Eifer's stage:
- It would probably be faster to fly over the first set of rising platforms[/quote]
Eh, urm... not really.  It's clearly faster than walking though it, and much safer, but sliding is still the way to go on this one despite the heightened risk.  If you can slide over the first gap (which is very much possible, but tricky to do), you can keep some of that slide speed until the next major gap.  And even with that bit of slowing down to adjust for the gap, the time gained by those first several slides should compensate for the time saved in using the Frügel.

[quote]Iris 2:
- Possibly Strudel's Frügel in the room where the ceiling an floor are on fire and you have to jump on invisible platforms. There's weapon energy right after it since you'll need it. (I don't know if this will be faster so it'll need to be timed.)[/quote]
-This is the only strat I haven't tested yet, but just to make a wild guess, I want to believe that the time to do this strat in comparison to the current strat might not be that different.  So if this is to be the case, then I'll just be wasting time getting the weapon energy back for it.  But as I said, this is only a guess before I do this for real, so I can be pretty wrong on this one.  Once I try it out and time it officially (unless someone else is able to get the info before me), then I'll make an official conclusion on this plan.

EDIT: In finally trying the new Frügel strat for Iris 2, I've determined that there is not that much difference in time between said new strat in comparison with the old one.  In fact, the new strat is slightly slower by at least a second.  The time lost in grabbing the weapon energy (which is necessary to get for using the Frügel in Iris 3) cancels out any time that might have been gained if I hadn't needed to.  So unfortunately, this isn't a viable option in the run, but it was definitely an interesting strat to try out in spite of that.

PreddY

2012-12-08 12:09:37 pm

Hope rides alone.

I must admit that Eisschwert is totally overpowered in this game just for the effect of letting you pass through all enemies without harm. getting it earlier like mentioned seems very viable to me. its also quite easy to manually switch to it without using pause menu. in case u didnt know, when pressing L+R at the same time it resets ur weapon to Stachel so u can reach Eisschwert faster.

the posted SS run is already pretty decent. improve that a little and we got the first submission for this game Wink

or u could perfect urself using segments.

moar replays Smiley

Krimmydoodle

2012-12-09 07:14:47 am

So I was playing for the first time in over a month, and I came up with a couple of things.

One is in this highlight. To be honest, I don't actually know what I did, but if anyone can figure out how to trigger that superslide, it could be useful (version is 1.03a + hardmode.exe).

The other is tricky, but can save a cycle on the Purple Devil. Without getting a hit immediately after you enter the room, the most optimal way to kill it is 0 + 3 + 3 + 1 Eislanze shots per cycle. However, if you jump through the door, then manage to jump again immediately when you land (since you have about one frame of input between landing on the ground and losing control to the boss intro), you can hop to the middle of the screen which is close enough to jump and shoot an Eislanze to hit before it deforms, and kill it in 1 + 3 + 3.

And regarding the hardmode.exe, it's a download from the official dev blog. Save http://kurotama.sakura.ne.jp/product/rks_freu/patch/rks_fs[sterblich].zip (be sure to copy/paste the whole link including the "[sterblich].zip") in your RKSF directory and run it, and the game will spawn you with 1HP and give no health drops, though it increases extend drops to compensate.

So I was playing for the first time in over a month, and I came up with a couple of things.

One is in [url=http://www.twitch.tv/krimmydoodle/c/1766675]this highlight[/url].  To be honest, I don't actually know what I did, but if anyone can figure out how to trigger that superslide, it could be useful (version is 1.03a + hardmode.exe).

The other is tricky, but can save a cycle on the Purple Devil.  Without getting a hit immediately after you enter the room, the most optimal way to kill it is 0 + 3 + 3 + 1 Eislanze shots per cycle.  However, if you jump through the door, then manage to jump again immediately when you land (since you have about one frame of input between landing on the ground and losing control to the boss intro), you can hop to the middle of the screen which is close enough to jump and shoot an Eislanze to hit before it deforms, and kill it in 1 + 3 + 3.

And regarding the hardmode.exe, it's a download from the official dev blog.  Save http://kurotama.sakura.ne.jp/product/rks_freu/patch/rks_fs[sterblich].zip (be sure to copy/paste the whole link including the "[sterblich].zip") in your RKSF directory and run it, and the game will spawn you with 1HP and give no health drops, though it increases extend drops to compensate.

nate

2012-12-09 12:03:35 pm

amazing finds. i have to assume the superslide has to do with starting on fluegel but who knows.

i'm sure we will all have fun trying for a two round yellow devil in ss.

Vucious Creed

Edit history:

Vucious Creed: 2012-12-19 07:59:38 pm

Vucious Creed: 2012-12-12 08:59:58 pm

2012-12-09 02:35:14 pm

Glad my fanboy lvls aren't THIS high

The superslide discovery is incredible, so of course I immediately tried it out. This is what I have found out about it:

To perform the superslide, you need to slide practically immediately after the Frügel leaves due to making impact with a solid surface (ledge, solid floating platform, etc.). However, your feet has to be on that surface once the Frügel leaves to cause this effect which requires you to pilot the Frügel to be horizontally aligned with said surface. It will help if you fly on the furthest front end of the Frügel so part of your feet will stick out in front and make the drop onto your desired platform a bit easier.

I've found several places where this can be applied:

Zorne's Stage:
1) The ledge leading to the boss door (dangerous due to the lava pool below)

Dolis' Stage:
1) The ledge after the "Guts Man" styled drop-platforms leading to the next screen (dangerous due to the pitfall below)

Liebea's Stage:
1) The area where the first three breakable ice platforms are (hit the Frügel on that solid platform before that first ice platform)
2) The long stretch of breakable ice platforms (just land the Frügel on the platforms and slide; for some reason, the momentum for the superslide is kept and can be performed)

Eifer's Stage:
1) At the beginning according to the highlight video
2) The ledge where you would take the narrow passage to slide into the miniboss room

Pamela's stage:
1) The long screen where you would normally ride on the two pendulums after reaching the midpoint (see Dolis' strat above for danger level)

These are the only viable applications for supersliding, except for one. You can also do it at the end of Schwer's stage on the ledge leading to the boss door. However, for one, there's an unavoidable enemy in the way if you perform the superslide correctly. Hitting it will cancel the superslide and may cancel out any other time gained due to hitstun. I believe that this chain of events will lead to no difference in time in comparison to the strat I used if you remember my SS replay, so I don't think that this will be worth it.

If anything sounds confusing, I'll make the appropriate replays to affirm my findings.

EDIT (12/12/12):
I've decided just to edit the post rather than bump it up for personal reasons in relation to this newest run that I've just set not too long ago. As of this edit, I've recorded a 37:05.16 which is an 11 second improvement. However, the run was still frought with lots of careless errors; mostly in the late-game: multiple superslide misses (only connected on three of them), missed the one-cycle reduction pass on the crusher section of "Heroe's" stage, connected on the 1-frame jump on the Devil fight... then immediately choked near the battle's end, botched a few re-fights (friggin' Trauare, again), and died on the final battle TWICE.

It's clear that sub-37 is very much possible, but some more work must be done. I've got to connect on more superslides and not botch important battles in the late game. This especially goes for the final battle; I need to grind on that battle intensely. Also, I've found two more superslide opportunities in Lecht & Rink's stage close to the end of the stage on the screens where you would normally ride the floating books towards the boss door. Just to note, one superslide opportunity in said stage is the transition point between the two floating book areas: be very careful while supersliding as if you don't jump after screen transition, you will slide right off the edge.

I did save the replay, but I'm not going to attach it because I'm not very pleased with the results despite the improved run. I'll do so if requested, but the final stretch was too gaudy to warrant a look. Anyway, back to execution training and final boss grinding.

EDIT #2: Made a correction on this post that I should have done days ago. All information in this post is now fully accurate.

The superslide discovery is incredible, so of course I immediately tried it out.  This is what I have found out about it:

To perform the superslide, you need to slide practically immediately after the Frügel leaves due to making impact with a solid surface (ledge, solid floating platform, etc.).  However, your feet has to be on that surface once the Frügel leaves to cause this effect which requires you to pilot the Frügel to be horizontally aligned with said surface.  It will help if you fly on the furthest front end of the Frügel so part of your feet will stick out in front and make the drop onto your desired platform a bit easier.

I've found several places where this can be applied:

Zorne's Stage:
1) The ledge leading to the boss door (dangerous due to the lava pool below)

Dolis' Stage:
1) The ledge after the "Guts Man" styled drop-platforms leading to the next screen (dangerous due to the pitfall below)

Liebea's Stage:
1) The area where the first three breakable ice platforms are (hit the Frügel on that solid platform before that first ice platform)
2) The long stretch of breakable ice platforms (just land the Frügel on the platforms and slide; for some reason, the momentum for the superslide is kept and can be performed)

Eifer's Stage:
1) At the beginning according to the highlight video
2) The ledge where you would take the narrow passage to slide into the miniboss room

Pamela's stage:
1) The long screen where you would normally ride on the two pendulums after reaching the midpoint (see Dolis' strat above for danger level)

These are the only viable applications for supersliding, except for one.  You can also do it at the end of Schwer's stage on the ledge leading to the boss door.  However, for one, there's an unavoidable enemy in the way if you perform the superslide correctly.  Hitting it will cancel the superslide and may cancel out any other time gained due to hitstun.  I believe that this chain of events will lead to no difference in time in comparison to the strat I used if you remember my SS replay, so I don't think that this will be worth it.

If anything sounds confusing, I'll make the appropriate replays to affirm my findings.

EDIT (12/12/12):
I've decided just to edit the post rather than bump it up for personal reasons in relation to this newest run that I've just set not too long ago.  As of this edit, I've recorded a 37:05.16 which is an 11 second improvement.  However, the run was still frought with lots of careless errors; mostly in the late-game: multiple superslide misses (only connected on three of them), missed the one-cycle reduction pass on the crusher section of "Heroe's" stage, connected on the 1-frame jump on the Devil fight... then immediately choked near the battle's end, botched a few re-fights (friggin' Trauare, again), and died on the final battle TWICE.

It's clear that sub-37 is very much possible, but some more work must be done.  I've got to connect on more superslides and not botch important battles in the late game.  This especially goes for the final battle; I need to grind on that battle intensely.  Also, I've found two more superslide opportunities in Lecht & Rink's stage close to the end of the stage on the screens where you would normally ride the floating books towards the boss door.  Just to note, one superslide opportunity in said stage is the transition point between the two floating book areas: be very careful while supersliding as if you don't jump after screen transition, you will slide right off the edge.

I did save the replay, but I'm not going to attach it because I'm not very pleased with the results despite the improved run.  I'll do so if requested, but the final stretch was too gaudy to warrant a look.  Anyway, back to execution training and final boss grinding.

EDIT #2: Made a correction on this post that I should have done days ago.  All information in this post is now fully accurate.

Kuribon

2012-12-16 09:11:36 pm

Neutral is never a weakness

Been doing runs on Pamela mode for the past few weeks. Currently, my best time is 39:09:02 going by the ingame timer. Replay can only be played on version 1.00a.

This run is solid, but there is definitely room for improvement. Dolis and Eifer's stage were pretty sloppy and some of my boss fights weren't too good (Dolis, Trauare, and Iris come to mind). I also collect more E-tanks than I thought I would need (I get 5 and I only used 2 during the final boss), so a small amount of time was wasted from that.

Boss order doesn't matter too much, but Trauare should be fought before Zorne because Trauare's team attack gives you more opportunities to attack her. Pamela also isn't able to damage bosses like Grolla can in RKS (normal slashes only do 1 damage), so the best methods for damaging bosses are using charge and triple slashes.

I play on version 1.00a to take advantage of a glitch that causes Schirach's AI to lock, which skips her desperation attack and let's you get quick and easy free hits. This is useful in a Pamela run, but probably not in a Freudia run.

A sub 38 run might be possible, but I can't say for sure right now. Current goal is to get sub 38:40.

Been doing runs on Pamela mode for the past few weeks. Currently, my best time is 39:09:02 going by the ingame timer. Replay can only be played on version 1.00a.

This run is solid, but there is definitely room for improvement. Dolis and Eifer's stage were pretty sloppy and some of my boss fights weren't too good (Dolis, Trauare, and Iris come to mind). I also collect more E-tanks than I thought I would need (I get 5 and I only used 2 during the final boss), so a small amount of time was wasted from that.

Boss order doesn't matter too much, but Trauare should be fought before Zorne because Trauare's team attack gives you more opportunities to attack her. Pamela also isn't able to damage bosses like Grolla can in RKS (normal slashes only do 1 damage), so the best methods for damaging bosses are using charge and triple slashes.

I play on version 1.00a to take advantage of a glitch that causes Schirach's AI to lock, which skips her desperation attack and let's you get quick and easy free hits. This is useful in a Pamela run, but probably not in a Freudia run.

A sub 38 run might be possible, but I can't say for sure right now. Current goal is to get sub 38:40.

Attachment:

rks004.rpy

nate

2012-12-17 07:24:24 pm

great run. really enjoyed it.

072

2012-12-18 03:11:10 pm

I haven't been able to do the superslide. Any idea what I am doing wrong? This is 1.03a.

Attachment:

rks007.rpy

Vucious Creed

2012-12-18 06:02:47 pm

Glad my fanboy lvls aren't THIS high

Hm, it doesn't look like you're doing anything wrong. However, try this: Instead of just trying to align the Frügel to the platform you're trying to superslide on, try to come in for a landing on a platform then immediately slide. This is what I try to do now instead of just lining the Frügel up with a superslide-able platform. If there are still problems, or you need visual help, I'll upload a sample replay later.

And since I'm here, a quick progress report: I'm still making little progress on a complete Freudia run. Multiple mistakes keep ruining runs, however, I do now have an improved Trauare fight strat that I believe improves on the strat that nate provide a video for a while back. Other than that, it's still a whole lot of playing with a whole lot of resetting. However, I really believe I'm close to a breakthrough; it's only a matter of time.

072

2012-12-18 06:26:54 pm

There we go. I can only do it if I "turn off" the fluegel right before it would normally collide. Perhaps this is easier?

072

2012-12-19 05:52:19 pm

Finally did a run without dying. Nerves started getting to me in the later stages so it's not amazing but I did get a few superslides which is nice. This was version 1.03a again. Time is 35:29:38.

Attachment:

rks008.rpy

DALFEN

2012-12-20 10:34:13 am

Hello everyone i made an acc just to get this out here. i have been speed running rosenkreuzstilette for a while now and i got the wr(i think) for single segment.
time 33,30,83.
video: http://www.twitch.tv/dalfen/c/1788051
(video quality is kinda bad and my stream was lagging at some stages, sorry for that)
About the run, it was fucking awful. I messed up everything and i died at the boss rush =.='

Vucious Creed

2012-12-20 09:18:16 pm

Glad my fanboy lvls aren't THIS high

Quote from 072:

Finally did a run without dying. Nerves started getting to me in the later stages so it's not amazing but I did get a few superslides which is nice. This was version 1.03a again. Time is 35:29:38.

I saw the replay. That was some very good playing right there. That strat in Schirach's stage with the Frügel to fly under the falling platforms was awesomly ballsy. Also, getting the weapon energy for the Frügel in Dolis' stage and using it to bypass the Toad-Flea/Dryad stretch was also genius. I'll probably edit this post and give more feedback on the run later as I can't immediately remember everything from the replay immediately.

Anyway, next progress report: Just finished another run clocking in at 35:54.52. This run is using the "Grolla First" routing to see how comparable it is to the "Luste First" routing. As of this time, it's still hard to draw a complete comparison between routes as this run yet again still has mistakes abound which included several missed superslide opportunites, a death in Iris 1, missing the one-frame jump on the Devil boss, and other careless general errors that I can't recall right now. As with the last run, I don't plan on posting another replay until I get a cleaner run of the game, and I'll only upload it upon request.

Regardless, seeing how these runs are going, reaching sub-35 should be in the realm of possibility. I'm sure one of us will hit that time with more runs.

[quote="072"]Finally did a run without dying. Nerves started getting to me in the later stages so it's not amazing but I did get a few superslides which is nice. This was version 1.03a again. Time is 35:29:38.[/quote]

I saw the replay.  That was some very good playing right there.  That strat in Schirach's stage with the Frügel to fly under the falling platforms was awesomly ballsy.  Also, getting the weapon energy for the Frügel in Dolis' stage and using it to bypass the Toad-Flea/Dryad stretch was also genius.  I'll probably edit this post and give more feedback on the run later as I can't immediately remember everything from the replay immediately.

Anyway, next progress report: Just finished another run clocking in at 35:54.52.  This run is using the "Grolla First" routing to see how comparable it is to the "Luste First" routing.  As of this time, it's still hard to draw a complete comparison between routes as this run yet again still has mistakes abound which included several missed superslide opportunites, a death in Iris 1, missing the one-frame jump on the Devil boss, and other careless general errors that I can't recall right now.  As with the last run, I don't plan on posting another replay until I get a cleaner run of the game, and I'll only upload it upon request.

Regardless, seeing how these runs are going, reaching sub-35 should be in the realm of possibility.  I'm sure one of us will hit that time with more runs.

072

2012-12-21 01:03:04 am

Quote from Vucious Creed:

Also, getting the weapon energy for the Frügel in Dolis' stage and using it to bypass the Toad-Flea/Dryad stretch was also genius.

That was actually Nate's idea... it might have been after he did the replay he posted here.

PreddY

2012-12-21 02:06:53 pm

Hope rides alone.

a very good SS run you got there... your level of play is already really high ^^ keep trying and we all hope to see a fine run submitted

Senovit

2012-12-22 04:52:02 pm

Hi all, I've been trying to speedrun this game with Pamela... not as complicated as Freudia since most tricks are just "can I dash jump that in time," but I thought I'd share anyway. Time taken according to in game recorder is 36:28. My current goal is sub 36, but it seems quite far off. I attempt most skips I know, but I do mess up a fair number of them. Some boss fights were also sloppy :<

Looking for new tricks etc.!

Attachment:

rks006.rpy

Vucious Creed

2012-12-22 08:17:41 pm

Glad my fanboy lvls aren't THIS high

Another new progress report: Just beaten the game once again as Freudia and clocked in at 35:24.82 using the "Grolla First" routing again. This time the run is much improved, but I got one death on Pamela's stage thanks to a "jump that never was." If that jump had worked, I'm pretty sure that I might have been extremely close to a sub-35, if not, outright making it.

This run, obviously enough, used a lot of current strats that have been given throughout the run. However, unless someone has done it already, I've managed to get a Dolis quick kill that ignores her performing her second phase attack. While I'd rather upload another deathless run, I'll upload this one as a reference to the Dolis quick kill no one has yet seen it. That sub-35 is so close; gotta keep working hard.

Attachment:

VC_RKSF_Run004_103a.rpy

Arkhanno

2012-12-22 10:31:36 pm

Really nice run, Vucious. I really like the Trauare and Dolis strats.

Now onto math because I kinda feel obligated to do this again. After I'll give my thoughts on the run. <3

Luste's stage:
2:45 is when Vucious gains control
4:12 is when Vucious entered the second door to fight Luste
4:21 is when Luste's fight starts
4:32 is when Luste is killed.
Total time of player control in Luste's stage: 1:47

Grolla's stage:
0:10 is when Vucious gains control
1:37 is when Vucious enters the second door to fight Grolla
1:48 (1:47.88 or so basically 1:48) is when Grolla's fight starts
2:17 is when Grolla is killed.
Total time of player control in Grolla's stage: 2:07

Total time of player control between the two stages: 3:54 (That's with at least 4 seconds of minor errors in the two stages.)

Now onto my individual stage thoughts where improvements can be made.

Grolla: I really like what you're doing through this stage. The only thing I'd like to see changed is early on in the stage after you jump over the first skeleton knight you should slide and shoot to scroll the second one off the screen. Other than that, great job.

Trauare: Loving that boss strat. Maybe try to slide more in the underwater section. There's a couple places where you could have slided and didn't.

Liebea: Near the end of the stage when you use Strudel's Frügel to get past the second Ice Man-like enemy is it possible to quickly switch to Eisschwert from Strudel's Frügel? I don't remember how many button presses it might be. Maybe worth a shot to try freezing the projectile and enemy.

Eifer: In the first wall Dryad section you froze the Dryads then climbed the ladder. Use them as platforms next time to get up faster.

Now onto 072's run. I'm not going to go post improvements for the whole thing since that would be redundant, but I will point out one. First, math time!

Luste's stage:
0:10 is when 072 gains control
1:35 is when 072 entered the second door to fight Luste
1:45 is when Luste's fight starts
2:21 is when Luste is killed.
Total time of player control in Luste's stage: 2:11

Grolla's stage:
14:52 is when 072 gains control
16:20 is when 072 enters the second door to fight Grolla
16:31 is when Grolla's fight starts
16:47 is when Grolla is killed.
Total time of player control in Grolla's stage: 1:55

Total time of player control between the two stages: 4:06

Now, let's compare the two runs that we have for the two different routes:

Vucious (Grolla first):

Luste total control: 1:47
Grolla total control: 2:07

Luste boss fight: 11 seconds
Grolla boss fight: 29 seconds
Total combined fight time: 40 seconds

072 (Luste first):

Luste total control: 2:11
Grolla total control: 1:55

Luste boss fight: 36 seconds
Grolla boss fight: 16 seconds
Total combined fight time: 52 seconds

I will admit that 072's Luste fight wasn't the optimal fight, but I feel his Grolla was as good as it will get using Weißteufel. On the other side, I feel that Vucious' Luste fight can't get any better (Unless you're counting frames >_>) and his Grolla is really optimized as well. So in order to add more data points let me go back to Vucious' previous Luste first fight time.

1:47 is when Luste's fight starts
2:18 is when Luste is killed.
Total fight time: 31 seconds

Total combined fight time (Luste first route): 47 seconds

While I feel like a really good Luste fight could bring that down to ~43 seconds combined I don't think it can go lower than a Grolla first route. Now onto the improvement, in case you want to try to prove me wrong.

Right after the midboss in the room with the two snake spawners use Schneekristal to protect yourself from damage. This won't save more than a second, but still better than nothing.

Really nice run, Vucious. I really like the Trauare and Dolis strats.

Now onto math because I kinda feel obligated to do this again. After I'll give my thoughts on the run. <3

Luste's stage:
2:45 is when Vucious gains control
4:12 is when Vucious entered the second door to fight Luste
4:21 is when Luste's fight starts
4:32 is when Luste is killed.
Total time of player control in Luste's stage: 1:47

Grolla's stage:
0:10 is when Vucious gains control
1:37 is when Vucious enters the second door to fight Grolla
1:48 (1:47.88 or so basically 1:48) is when Grolla's fight starts
2:17 is when Grolla is killed.
Total time of player control in Grolla's stage: 2:07

Total time of player control between the two stages: 3:54 (That's with at least 4 seconds of minor errors in the two stages.)

Now onto my individual stage thoughts where improvements can be made.

Grolla: I really like what you're doing through this stage. The only thing I'd like to see changed is early on in the stage after you jump over the first skeleton knight you should slide and shoot to scroll the second one off the screen. Other than that, great job.

Trauare: Loving that boss strat. Maybe try to slide more in the underwater section. There's a couple places where you could have slided and didn't.

Liebea: Near the end of the stage when you use Strudel's Frügel to get past the second Ice Man-like enemy is it possible to quickly switch to Eisschwert from Strudel's Frügel? I don't remember how many button presses it might be. Maybe worth a shot to try freezing the projectile and enemy.

Eifer: In the first wall Dryad section you froze the Dryads then climbed the ladder. Use them as platforms next time to get up faster.

Now onto 072's run. I'm not going to go post improvements for the whole thing since that would be redundant, but I will point out one. First, math time!

Luste's stage:
0:10 is when 072 gains control
1:35 is when 072 entered the second door to fight Luste
1:45 is when Luste's fight starts
2:21 is when Luste is killed.
Total time of player control in Luste's stage: 2:11

Grolla's stage:
14:52 is when 072 gains control
16:20 is when 072 enters the second door to fight Grolla
16:31 is when Grolla's fight starts
16:47 is when Grolla is killed.
Total time of player control in Grolla's stage: 1:55

Total time of player control between the two stages: 4:06

Now, let's compare the two runs that we have for the two different routes:

Vucious (Grolla first):

Luste total control: 1:47
Grolla total control: 2:07

Luste boss fight: 11 seconds
Grolla boss fight: 29 seconds
Total combined fight time: 40 seconds

072 (Luste first):

Luste total control: 2:11
Grolla total control: 1:55

Luste boss fight: 36 seconds
Grolla boss fight: 16 seconds
Total combined fight time: 52 seconds

I will admit that 072's Luste fight wasn't the optimal fight, but I feel his Grolla was as good as it will get using Weißteufel. On the other side, I feel that Vucious' Luste fight can't get any better (Unless you're counting frames >_>) and his Grolla is really optimized as well. So in order to add more data points let me go back to Vucious' previous Luste first fight time.

1:47 is when Luste's fight starts
2:18 is when Luste is killed.
Total fight time: 31 seconds

Total combined fight time (Luste first route): 47 seconds

While I feel like a really good Luste fight could bring that down to ~43 seconds combined I don't think it can go lower than a Grolla first route. Now onto the improvement, in case you want to try to prove me wrong.

Right after the midboss in the room with the two snake spawners use Schneekristal to protect yourself from damage. This won't save more than a second, but still better than nothing.