Rosenkreuzstilette/Freudenstachel

PreddY

Edit history:

PreddY: 2008-12-14 05:10:35 am

2008-12-14 04:49:43 am

Hope rides alone.

24:08.80

my 24:31 just sucks compared to this one. its much more smooth. i lost some major time because my LAST bomb on iris missed. gotta hate that hit zone of her. rest went perfect. gonna keep that one and now i will resume running the stages.

ill watch your grolla first. btw, from my exp with this attempt, i dont think pausing counts towards time somehow.

EDIT: dude, im IMPRESSED! your Grolla skill is pretty awesome. besides some mistakes, you most certainly know of yourself, it was so fast and uber-cool. honestly, you should attempt a Grolla mode run, because its so much faster because of wall climbing. so we could cooperate, you release the Grolla run and I do the Spritia run Cheesy

question: is there a way to dash as grolla besides -> + -> ? the wall boss in sepp1 is not that hard. watch the video of some dude on youtube, he has a pretty strong strategy there and it looks mega-cool also. looky
oh and i forgot, your Luste stage has no lag for me

24:08.80

my 24:31 just sucks compared to this one. its much more smooth. i lost some major time because my LAST bomb on iris missed. gotta hate that hit zone of her. rest went perfect. gonna keep that one and now i will resume running the stages.

ill watch your grolla first. btw, from my exp with this attempt, i dont think pausing counts towards time somehow.

EDIT: dude, im IMPRESSED! your Grolla skill is pretty awesome. besides some mistakes, you most certainly know of yourself, it was so fast and uber-cool. honestly, you should attempt a Grolla mode run, because its so much faster because of wall climbing. so we could cooperate, you release the Grolla run and I do the Spritia run :D
question: is there a way to dash as grolla besides -> + -> ? the wall boss in sepp1 is not that hard. watch the video of some dude on youtube, he has a pretty strong strategy there and it looks mega-cool also. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvXv-NB8Nm4]looky[/url]
oh and i forgot, your Luste stage has no lag for me

65

2008-12-14 06:53:08 am

I didn't know the boss has A WALL YOU CAN LATCH ONTO! The hell... I developed a strategy which involved doing something along those lines but without dashing or grabbing walls, but this strategy is a million times easier. Thanks.

Anyway, you can dash with Grolla by pressing L (that is used to cycle weapons in normal mode). I would still recommend using weapon cycling instead of menu even if the menu doesn't count in time. It just simpler and you can have shield while using Zwei, for example.

Quote from PreddY:

so we could cooperate, you release the Grolla run and I do the Spritia run Cheesy

Yes, but even if we did compete, we should still cooperate to get the best strategies. I might consider doing a Grolla run, but again, my game lags quite a lot in a few places (involving shining things or multiple layers), so unless I find a better computer I'm not too enthusiastic about that. If I did do such a run, however, it'd be single-segmented.

Can you show that replay of yours? I'm curious about your weapon energy management plus if you do some of the stunts I know.

I recommend using a pad for this game, though; it's much more suitable for a game like this.

I didn't know the boss has A WALL YOU CAN LATCH ONTO! The hell... I developed a strategy which involved doing something along those lines but without dashing or grabbing walls, but this strategy is a million times easier. Thanks.

Anyway, you can dash with Grolla by pressing L (that is used to cycle weapons in normal mode). I would still recommend using weapon cycling instead of menu even if the menu doesn't count in time. It just simpler and you can have shield while using Zwei, for example.

[quote="PreddY"]so we could cooperate, you release the Grolla run and I do the Spritia run :D[/quote]

Yes, but even if we did compete, we should still cooperate to get the best strategies. I might consider doing a Grolla run, but again, my game lags quite a lot in a few places (involving shining things or multiple layers), so unless I find a better computer I'm not too enthusiastic about that. If I did do such a run, however, it'd be single-segmented.

Can you show that replay of yours? I'm curious about your weapon energy management plus if you do some of the stunts I know.

I recommend using a pad for this game, though; it's much more suitable for a game like this.

65

Edit history:

65: 2008-12-14 10:42:21 am

2008-12-14 10:35:54 am

Well PreddY, I got your PM and watched the segment. I think you could squeeze out a minute or two. While I don't remember all the details since I couldn't write things down while watching, but the here are some things to consider:

1) Slide more. You walked about half the time you could've used slide. The difference is significant so you should use that as much as possible.

2) Use more Eins & Zwei. Zwei should be used in Sepperin 2 even before the forced part. You get to refill it so it poses no problems later on. It should be also used in either Sepperin 3 or 4 in the long corridors that have a lot of pits. Preferably on both if you can figure out how to get enough refills for both of those parts. You can cut some time by using Zwei on Iris 1 where there are these electric bombs and water everywhere, about 2/3 into the stage. There are probably a few more other places you could use it on.

3) Choose your refills better. You only really need energy for Zwei, Klage Harnisch, that shield weapon and bombs plus maybe one or two small ones for Luste Atem. Yeah, and probably Lilli, too. You might want to reconsider using Lilli that much, though, since refilling the weapon fully is a high price to pay.

4) You can slide under those egg bombs in Sepperin 1. No need to wait for them to drop down.

5) There's no need to blow up the walls in Iris 2. It wastes maybe ten seconds to do that. Use the upper route.

6) Don't prefire the boss in Sepperin 4. He'll always dodge that. Wait him to shoot the flames first, then immeditaly shoot Klage Harnisch at him.

7) Start the Schwer-Muta refight with a charged Bomb; you don't need to get close to her before firing that way.

8) Don't use die Geplante Zukunft against Freudia; Seeles Gewehr is much, much faster and relatively simple, too. If you absolutely have to use it then use it on the later half. Still, try not to do that and find a better place for it. There has to be some place where it'll be very handy in the castle levels.

9) When you use Eins, jump before firing it and land on the Eins in the same jump, then preferably slide and repeat when you need to reach high places.

10) Try to practice your Eins usage overall. You lost time especially in Sepperin 4 because of that. Practicing for tricky jumps (like after collecting the WE in Sepperin 4 or a couple of jumps in Iris 1. I'm not too good at them, either, but they can be done and should be done). It's a matter of timing, but you have to be pretty precise.

11) Maybe it'd be better if you started from the beginning instead of the half way? You'd get better at the game as the run progresses and you need more skills in the end levels than the eight bosses.

With that I think you could shave off those minute or two worth of savings. The Reaper battle strategy was cool, and aside from taking too much damage in some bosses the battles went pretty well. By doing better at those fights you wouldn't need to pick up as many cross cans. Especially the one at the start of Sepperin 1 hurts your time considerably. I'm thinking one might be able to pull off the later levels in 20-21 minutes when all things go right.

Then let's talk about cross cans: Remember that you can use a save at the start of the final segment that actually has some cross cans, as long as you do pick those up during the eight stages. Bear in mind that the amount of cross cans you have should be the same between segments, ie. you can't stop a segment with 3 cross cans and start with 1 or vice versa. It'll affect the password, anyway.

Oh, and looking at the replay I also realized entering the menu does count against your time. Keep that in mind.

Well PreddY, I got your PM and watched the segment. I think you could squeeze out a minute or two. While I don't remember all the details since I couldn't write things down while watching, but the here are some things to consider:

1) Slide more. You walked about half the time you could've used slide. The difference is significant so you should use that as much as possible.

2) Use more Eins & Zwei. Zwei should be used in Sepperin 2 even before the forced part. You get to refill it so it poses no problems later on. It should be also used in either Sepperin 3 or 4 in the long corridors that have a lot of pits. Preferably on both if you can figure out how to get enough refills for both of those parts. You can cut some time by using Zwei on Iris 1 where there are these electric bombs and water everywhere, about 2/3 into the stage. There are probably a few more other places you could use it on.

3) Choose your refills better. You only really need energy for Zwei, Klage Harnisch, that shield weapon and bombs plus maybe one or two small ones for Luste Atem. Yeah, and probably Lilli, too. You might want to reconsider using Lilli that much, though, since refilling the weapon fully is a high price to pay.

4) You can slide under those egg bombs in Sepperin 1. No need to wait for them to drop down.

5) There's no need to blow up the walls in Iris 2. It wastes maybe ten seconds to do that. Use the upper route.

6) Don't prefire the boss in Sepperin 4. He'll always dodge that. Wait him to shoot the flames first, then immeditaly shoot Klage Harnisch at him.

7) Start the Schwer-Muta refight with a charged Bomb; you don't need to get close to her before firing that way.

8) Don't use die Geplante Zukunft against Freudia; Seeles Gewehr is much, much faster and relatively simple, too. If you absolutely have to use it then use it on the later half. Still, try not to do that and find a better place for it. There has to be some place where it'll be very handy in the castle levels.

9) When you use Eins, jump before firing it and land on the Eins in the same jump, then preferably slide and repeat when you need to reach high places.

10) Try to practice your Eins usage overall. You lost time especially in Sepperin 4 because of that. Practicing for tricky jumps (like after collecting the WE in Sepperin 4 or a couple of jumps in Iris 1. I'm not too good at them, either, but they can be done and should be done). It's a matter of timing, but you have to be pretty precise.

11) Maybe it'd be better if you started from the beginning instead of the half way? You'd get better at the game as the run progresses and you need more skills in the end levels than the eight bosses.

With that I think you could shave off those minute or two worth of savings. The Reaper battle strategy was cool, and aside from taking too much damage in some bosses the battles went pretty well. By doing better at those fights you wouldn't need to pick up as many cross cans. Especially the one at the start of Sepperin 1 hurts your time considerably. I'm thinking one might be able to pull off the later levels in 20-21 minutes when all things go right.

Then let's talk about cross cans: Remember that you can use a save at the start of the final segment that actually has some cross cans, as long as you do pick those up during the eight stages. Bear in mind that the amount of cross cans you have should be the same between segments, ie. you can't stop a segment with 3 cross cans and start with 1 or vice versa. It'll affect the password, anyway.

Oh, and looking at the replay I also realized entering the menu does count against your time. Keep that in mind.

PreddY

2008-12-14 11:33:13 am

Hope rides alone.

answers within the QUOTE.

Quote from 65:

Well PreddY, I got your PM and watched the segment. I think you could squeeze out a minute or two. While I don't remember all the details since I couldn't write things down while watching, but the here are some things to consider:

1) Slide more. You walked about half the time you could've used slide. The difference is significant so you should use that as much as possible.

Smiley

the problem is, i am very mad when i screw a segment over. so i choose the secure way. because too much sliding might end up in a pit. I will try though. especially in sepp3 on the cracking ground i will practice.

2) Use more Eins & Zwei. Zwei should be used in Sepperin 2 even before the forced part. You get to refill it so it poses no problems later on. It should be also used in either Sepperin 3 or 4 in the long corridors that have a lot of pits. Preferably on both if you can figure out how to get enough refills for both of those parts. You can cut some time by using Zwei on Iris 1 where there are these electric bombs and water everywhere, about 2/3 into the stage. There are probably a few more other places you could use it on.

Smiley

meh, i dont think it will save time in sepp2. in sepp3 i might consider it as there is a large refill just before the long corridor. lol, after watching i dont know why i didnt consider zwei in sepp4 yet. i will use it there. thanks :)i wont on iris1 though.

3) Choose your refills better. You only really need energy for Zwei, Klage Harnisch, that shield weapon and bombs plus maybe one or two small ones for Luste Atem. Yeah, and probably Lilli, too. You might want to reconsider using Lilli that much, though, since refilling the weapon fully is a high price to pay.

Smiley

i need refills for bombs mainly. for gwall i need 2 small ones for trauare. klage harnisch needs a big one, depends on how graf sepperin wents. lilly has to be refilled compelety as you might guess. and zwei mainly for speed reasons. i think i might be able to think of better refill usage.

4) You can slide under those egg bombs in Sepperin 1. No need to wait for them to drop down.

Smiley

yes, but then they will shoot into my direction and slow me down and/or hurt. its faster that way.

5) There's no need to blow up the walls in Iris 2. It wastes maybe ten seconds to do that. Use the upper route.

Smiley

meh, really? can you show me a replay of where you pass that part without using bombs?

6) Don't prefire the boss in Sepperin 4. He'll always dodge that. Wait him to shoot the flames first, then immeditaly shoot Klage Harnisch at him.

Smiley

strange, he never did that before. but I noticed if i am too fast he dodges and that screws my weapon energy. i will use more timing.

7) Start the Schwer-Muta refight with a charged Bomb; you don't need to get close to her before firing that way.

Smiley

i need near max bomb for iris. actually i consider fighting muta with buster halfway or 1/4 to save that bomb for iris (big time saver as you may have noticed)

8) Don't use die Geplante Zukunft against Freudia; Seeles Gewehr is much, much faster and relatively simple, too. If you absolutely have to use it then use it on the later half. Still, try not to do that and find a better place for it. There has to be some place where it'll be very handy in the castle levels.

Smiley

that way i can keep her from using that ice star spread. but using it on the second half is a really good idea.

9) When you use Eins, jump before firing it and land on the Eins in the same jump, then preferably slide and repeat when you need to reach high places.

Smiley

practicing.

10) Try to practice your Eins usage overall. You lost time especially in Sepperin 4 because of that. Practicing for tricky jumps (like after collecting the WE in Sepperin 4 or a couple of jumps in Iris 1. I'm not too good at them, either, but they can be done and should be done). It's a matter of timing, but you have to be pretty precise.

Smiley

is it possible to jump out of the gap in sepp4 after colelcting the WE right onto an Eins? i might try.

11) Maybe it'd be better if you started from the beginning instead of the half way? You'd get better at the game as the run progresses and you need more skills in the end levels than the eight bosses.

Smiley

meh, dont call me bad! Cheesy

With that I think you could shave off those minute or two worth of savings. The Reaper battle strategy was cool, and aside from taking too much damage in some bosses the battles went pretty well. By doing better at those fights you wouldn't need to pick up as many cross cans. Especially the one at the start of Sepperin 1 hurts your time considerably. I'm thinking one might be able to pull off the later levels in 20-21 minutes when all things go right.

Smiley

yeah, i think i will skip the one on sepp1

Then let's talk about cross cans: Remember that you can use a save at the start of the final segment that actually has some cross cans, as long as you do pick those up during the eight stages. Bear in mind that the amount of cross cans you have should be the same between segments, ie. you can't stop a segment with 3 cross cans and start with 1 or vice versa. It'll affect the password, anyway.

Smiley

thats not allowed as i am segmenting the run, and using a password does not carry over e-cans.

Oh, and looking at the replay I also realized entering the menu does count against your time. Keep that in mind.

Smiley

sometimes, i need to do it to actually save time and nerves Cheesy

my current segment 9: http://megaman-int.quotaless.com/tas/RKS_SS9.zip

answers within the QUOTE.

[quote="65"]
Well PreddY, I got your PM and watched the segment. I think you could squeeze out a minute or two. While I don't remember all the details since I couldn't write things down while watching, but the here are some things to consider:

1) Slide more. You walked about half the time you could've used slide. The difference is significant so you should use that as much as possible.

:) the problem is, i am very mad when i screw a segment over. so i choose the secure way. because too much sliding might end up in a pit. I will try though. especially in sepp3 on the cracking ground i will practice.

2) Use more Eins & Zwei. Zwei should be used in Sepperin 2 even before the forced part. You get to refill it so it poses no problems later on. It should be also used in either Sepperin 3 or 4 in the long corridors that have a lot of pits. Preferably on both if you can figure out how to get enough refills for both of those parts. You can cut some time by using Zwei on Iris 1 where there are these electric bombs and water everywhere, about 2/3 into the stage. There are probably a few more other places you could use it on.

:) meh, i dont think it will save time in sepp2. in sepp3 i might consider it as there is a large refill just before the long corridor. lol, after watching i dont know why i didnt consider zwei in sepp4 yet. i will use it there. thanks :)i wont on iris1 though.

3) Choose your refills better. You only really need energy for Zwei, Klage Harnisch, that shield weapon and bombs plus maybe one or two small ones for Luste Atem. Yeah, and probably Lilli, too. You might want to reconsider using Lilli that much, though, since refilling the weapon fully is a high price to pay.

:) i need refills for bombs mainly. for gwall i need 2 small ones for trauare. klage harnisch needs a big one, depends on how graf sepperin wents. lilly has to be refilled compelety as you might guess. and zwei mainly for speed reasons. i think i might be able to think of better refill usage.

4) You can slide under those egg bombs in Sepperin 1. No need to wait for them to drop down.

:) yes, but then they will shoot into my direction and slow me down and/or hurt. its faster that way.

5) There's no need to blow up the walls in Iris 2. It wastes maybe ten seconds to do that. Use the upper route.

:) meh, really? can you show me a replay of where you pass that part without using bombs?

6) Don't prefire the boss in Sepperin 4. He'll always dodge that. Wait him to shoot the flames first, then immeditaly shoot Klage Harnisch at him.

:) strange, he never did that before. but I noticed if i am too fast he dodges and that screws my weapon energy. i will use more timing.

7) Start the Schwer-Muta refight with a charged Bomb; you don't need to get close to her before firing that way.

:) i need near max bomb for iris. actually i consider fighting muta with buster halfway or 1/4 to save that bomb for iris (big time saver as you may have noticed)

8) Don't use die Geplante Zukunft against Freudia; Seeles Gewehr is much, much faster and relatively simple, too. If you absolutely have to use it then use it on the later half. Still, try not to do that and find a better place for it. There has to be some place where it'll be very handy in the castle levels.

:) that way i can keep her from using that ice star spread. but using it on the second half is a really good idea.

9) When you use Eins, jump before firing it and land on the Eins in the same jump, then preferably slide and repeat when you need to reach high places.

:) practicing.

10) Try to practice your Eins usage overall. You lost time especially in Sepperin 4 because of that. Practicing for tricky jumps (like after collecting the WE in Sepperin 4 or a couple of jumps in Iris 1. I'm not too good at them, either, but they can be done and should be done). It's a matter of timing, but you have to be pretty precise.

:) is it possible to jump out of the gap in sepp4 after colelcting the WE right onto an Eins? i might try.

11) Maybe it'd be better if you started from the beginning instead of the half way? You'd get better at the game as the run progresses and you need more skills in the end levels than the eight bosses.

:) meh, dont call me bad! :D

With that I think you could shave off those minute or two worth of savings. The Reaper battle strategy was cool, and aside from taking too much damage in some bosses the battles went pretty well. By doing better at those fights you wouldn't need to pick up as many cross cans. Especially the one at the start of Sepperin 1 hurts your time considerably. I'm thinking one might be able to pull off the later levels in 20-21 minutes when all things go right.

:) yeah, i think i will skip the one on sepp1

Then let's talk about cross cans: Remember that you can use a save at the start of the final segment that actually has some cross cans, as long as you do pick those up during the eight stages. Bear in mind that the amount of cross cans you have should be the same between segments, ie. you can't stop a segment with 3 cross cans and start with 1 or vice versa. It'll affect the password, anyway.

:) thats not allowed as i am segmenting the run, and using a password does not carry over e-cans.

Oh, and looking at the replay I also realized entering the menu does count against your time. Keep that in mind.

:) sometimes, i need to do it to actually save time and nerves :D
[/quote]

my current segment 9: [url=http://megaman-int.quotaless.com/tas/RKS_SS9.zip]http://megaman-int.quotaless.com/tas/RKS_SS9.zip[/url]

65

Edit history:

65: 2008-12-14 02:03:57 pm

2008-12-14 01:35:54 pm

So, I had the replay of my first playthrough wherein I did that upper route jump instinctively, but it sucks for the most part and no one wants to see that, so I made a new one. ~~It has the WE management pretty the way I meant to have it~~ (watching that again, um... no?) This replay has some of the stunts I meant recommended up until Iris 2 (although some of them failed and sometimes I just do somthing incredibly stupid instead of that), where I got confused and used three continues or something like that. The level of play never recovered after that but I do kill Freudia fast, as it should be done. I did do the upper jump, too, but I botched it seven or eight times before that so be patient.

Pay attention how I slide off ledges without dropping into spikes. I forgot to say that before but it's almost impossible to fail such slides and it'll save a bit of time.

Another thing is that when possible, on the Iris 4 battle you should shoot Iris after Lilli has damaged her, getting an extra hit per appearance. Can't be done if she's not within your reach, though, unless you somehow manage to change to Lust Atem before she vanishes.

That jump involves basically dropping off screen or almost off screen, change the gravity, keep dropping a bit upwards and finally drop down so you can reach the ledge.

Hopefully this is the right replay. Note that it has a lot of mistakes and on the safe side, but it does what it's supposed to, ie. shows the WE management and the jump.

Do you think it would be worthwile to use a Geister Wand on the small enemy at the start of Iris 4 stage? I think you probably could hit the enemy with it before it can shoot, so you'd neven have to stop.

So, I had the replay of my first playthrough wherein I did that upper route jump instinctively, but it sucks for the most part and no one wants to see that, so I made a new one. [s]It has the WE management pretty the way I meant to have it[/s] (watching that again, um... no?) This replay has some of the stunts I meant recommended up until Iris 2 (although some of them failed and sometimes I just do somthing incredibly stupid instead of that), where I got confused and used three continues or something like that. The level of play never recovered after that but I do kill Freudia fast, as it should be done. I did do the upper jump, too, but I botched it seven or eight times before that so be patient.

Pay attention how I slide off ledges without dropping into spikes. I forgot to say that before but it's almost impossible to fail such slides and it'll save a bit of time.

Another thing is that when possible, on the Iris 4 battle you should shoot  Iris after Lilli has damaged her, getting an extra hit per appearance. Can't be done if she's not within your reach, though, unless you somehow manage to change to Lust Atem before she vanishes.

That jump involves basically dropping off screen or almost off screen, change the gravity, keep dropping a bit upwards and finally drop down so you can reach the ledge.

Hopefully this is the right replay. Note that it has a lot of mistakes and on the safe side, but it does what it's supposed to, ie. shows the WE management and the jump.

Do you think it would be worthwile to use a Geister Wand on the small enemy at the start of Iris 4 stage? I think you probably could hit the enemy with it before it can shoot, so you'd neven have to stop.

Attachment:

rks007.rpy

PreddY

2008-12-14 02:06:52 pm

Hope rides alone.

Quote from 65:

So, I had the replay of my first playthrough wherein I did that upper route jump instinctively, but it sucks for the most part and no one wants to see that, so I made a new one. It has the WE management pretty the way I meant to have it up until Iris 2, where I got confused and used three continues or something like that. The level of play never recovered after that but I do kill Freudia fast, as it should be done. I did do the upper jump, too, but I botched it seven or eight times before that so be patient.

Pay attention how I slide off ledges without dropping into spikes. I forgot to say that before but it's almost impossible to fail such slides and it'll save a bit of time.

Another thing is that when possible, on the Iris 4 battle you should shoot Iris after Lilli has damaged her, getting an extra hit per appearance. Can't be done if she's not within your reach, though, unless you somehow manage to change to Lust Atem before she vanishes.

That jump involves basically dropping off screen or almost off screen, change the gravity, keep dropping a bit upwards and finally drop down so you can reach the ledge.

Hopefully this is the right replay. Note that it has a lot of mistakes and on the safe side, but it does what it's supposed to, ie. shows the WE management and the jump.

Do you think it would be worthwile to use a Gester Wand on the small enemy at the start of Iris 4 stage? I think you probably could hit the enemy with it before it can shoot, so you'd neven have to stop.

nice little movie there. man, it showed such obvious improvements it drives me nuts. rofl at using zwei below ladders in sepp2...even a diploma isnt enough for such simple thoughts...ill most certainly adept that strat. your route was about 2 min slower than mine at the point of entering iris1, so i doubt using zwei and eins in sepp3 like you did saves time. and that Zwei in sepp2 near the dropping platforms is actually not faster, cuz zwei takes time to start Smiley

but that Zwei above the screen edge was very very nice.

that jump in iris2...i will test it in a practice run but i doubt its secure enough to do in a segment when you are that far and confident of the previous stages. imagine, if you screw that jump you can bite the controller. needs testing.

meanwhile, i found some other timesavers. do you have any idea hows the hit zone of iris machine? do you have a slight idea why the last bomb of mine missed?

[quote="65"]
So, I had the replay of my first playthrough wherein I did that upper route jump instinctively, but it sucks for the most part and no one wants to see that, so I made a new one. It has the WE management pretty the way I meant to have it up until Iris 2, where I got confused and used three continues or something like that. The level of play never recovered after that but I do kill Freudia fast, as it should be done. I did do the upper jump, too, but I botched it seven or eight times before that so be patient.

Pay attention how I slide off ledges without dropping into spikes. I forgot to say that before but it's almost impossible to fail such slides and it'll save a bit of time.

Another thing is that when possible, on the Iris 4 battle you should shoot  Iris after Lilli has damaged her, getting an extra hit per appearance. Can't be done if she's not within your reach, though, unless you somehow manage to change to Lust Atem before she vanishes.

That jump involves basically dropping off screen or almost off screen, change the gravity, keep dropping a bit upwards and finally drop down so you can reach the ledge.

Hopefully this is the right replay. Note that it has a lot of mistakes and on the safe side, but it does what it's supposed to, ie. shows the WE management and the jump.

Do you think it would be worthwile to use a Gester Wand on the small enemy at the start of Iris 4 stage? I think you probably could hit the enemy with it before it can shoot, so you'd neven have to stop.
[/quote]

nice little movie there. man, it showed such obvious improvements it drives me nuts. rofl at using zwei below ladders in sepp2...even a diploma isnt enough for such simple thoughts...ill most certainly adept that strat. your route was about 2 min slower than mine at the point of entering iris1, so i doubt using zwei and eins in sepp3 like you did saves time. and that Zwei in sepp2 near the dropping platforms is actually not faster, cuz zwei takes time to start :) but that Zwei above the screen edge was very very nice.

that jump in iris2...i will test it in a practice run but i doubt its secure enough to do in a segment when you are that far and confident of the previous stages. imagine, if you screw that jump you can bite the controller. needs testing.

meanwhile, i found some other timesavers. do you have any idea hows the hit zone of iris machine? do you have a slight idea why the last bomb of mine missed?

65

2008-12-14 02:39:01 pm

Quote:

rofl at using zwei below ladders in sepp2

Are you referring to the second Zwei on that level?

Well, I did spend ages in the menu so I think some of the time from the 2 min difference went there. I shot the second Zwei too early and ended up having to wait for it to move. Yeah Zepperin 3 didn't go exactly as planned. You could use Zwei there to save time (you need to do a few of those "dash jumps" there in order to pull it off) but you'd need to refill it or not use it on Zepperin 4. Oh, and I use the story mode; that racks up a lot of time, probably closer to at least a minute thanks to the long Zepperin story sequence. Do you happen to have the password for arcade castle levels?

I shoud've used Zwei on Zepperin 1 to ascend the ladders faster after taking the hit from the statue... accidentally used Eins on that.

Concerning the slower Zepperin 2 Zwei usage... what if you launched it from the non-sinking platform? You wouldn't have to wait any of the platforms to start sinking. They move pretty slowly.

If you want to make the Iris 2 jump easier, you could shoot a Zwei (or maybe Eins if you've ran out of Zwei) to the reverse gravity zone and jump on it. That should work pretty well. It crossed my mind but I didn't try it as I was too obsessed with the jumping.

I think the hit zone of the second iteration of Iris machine is the first half of the machine; it stops at where the moving plaform is (meaning if your bombs gets stuck to it, it doesn't damage Iris). Haven't tested that, though.

[quote]rofl at using zwei below ladders in sepp2[/quote]

Are you referring to the second Zwei on that level?

Well, I did spend ages in the menu so I think some of the time from the 2 min difference went there. I shot the second Zwei too early and ended up having to wait for it to move. Yeah Zepperin 3 didn't go exactly as planned. You could use Zwei there to save time (you need to do a few of those "dash jumps" there in order to pull it off) but you'd need to refill it or not use it on Zepperin 4. Oh, and I use the story mode; that racks up a lot of time, probably closer to at least a minute thanks to the long Zepperin story sequence. Do you happen to have the password for arcade castle levels?

I shoud've used Zwei on Zepperin 1 to ascend the ladders faster after taking the hit from the statue...  accidentally used Eins on that.

Concerning the slower Zepperin 2 Zwei usage... what if you launched it from the non-sinking platform? You wouldn't have to wait any of the platforms to start sinking. They move pretty slowly.

If you want to make the Iris 2 jump easier, you could shoot a Zwei (or maybe Eins if you've ran out of Zwei) to the reverse gravity zone and jump on it. That should work pretty well. It crossed my mind but I didn't try it as I was too obsessed with the jumping.

I think the hit zone of the second iteration of Iris machine is the first half of the machine; it stops at where the moving plaform is (meaning if your bombs gets stuck to it, it doesn't damage Iris). Haven't tested that, though.

PreddY

2008-12-14 02:46:43 pm

Hope rides alone.

i meant sepp1 ^^ that zwei below the ladders is insane, really...

i might try using Zwei on the blocks, but i doubt it will get between the blocks.

yeah, i thought the same when you were obsessed with the jump, why didnt you use zwei or eins. you did activate zwei on your first go there but missed it ^^ with that, it would be secure.

watch my segment. you will notice i plug 2 hitting bombs into the platform, but the 3rd plugged didnt hit her. can you see some difference, maybe in height or so?

and yes, you need the arcade mode password for the fortress.

progress next weekend, so long.

65

2008-12-14 02:52:20 pm

Quote from PreddY:

and yes, you need the arcade mode password for the fortress.

You say that, yet you won't tell me. Sad

I don't want to play through the levels just to get to that!

I didn't use Eins or Zwei because I specifically wanted to show the jump can be done without it.

PreddY

2008-12-14 02:54:26 pm

Hope rides alone.

A1, A4, B5, D4, E2, E6

have fun Cheesy

PreddY

Edit history:

PreddY: 2008-12-20 06:23:13 am

2008-12-20 05:36:37 am

Hope rides alone.

22:58.32

woah. more than a minute improvement. quite good. and after some serious tries and fails i think i will keep that one and move on to the boss runs.
i admit there are mistakes, but i did the jump of faith in iris2 with Eins and made it. man, i was so proud i suddenly played sloppy on devil and Luste Sad

my arch nemesis, the alshitty iris hit zone NEARLY screwed me again, as 1 bomb missed, but i had one bomb left (weapon energy seems a bit random, sometimes you have enough for 8 bombs, sometimes for 9) and so i killed her.

route change: i collected the 2 large W capsules in iris4 to skip the time-wasting ones in sepp4 and iris1. it overall did save time at least.

65, comments please Cheesy

btw: does anyone know if there is a L tank in Trauares stage? the one under water. i thought about doing her first because she gives out Eins and her level has no real points of speeding it up aside from the minibosses. but i cant beat her with my initial hp, and even Lilli doesnt help...

Attachment:

RKS_Segment_9.zip

PreddY

Edit history:

PreddY: 2008-12-21 12:08:21 am

2008-12-20 08:04:01 am

Hope rides alone.

ill keep track of my time like this (in this post so i dont need to spam replies):

[center]Stage	[center]Time	Segment Number
Liebea	02:32.56	[center]1
Luste	02:31.95	[center]2
Zorne	01:48.96	[center]3
Schwer-Muta	01:47.89	[center]4
Trauare (got Lilly)	02:31.85	[center]5
Grolla	02:28:97	[center]6
Sichte	01:57:10	[center]7
Freudia	02:24:96	[center]8
Fortresses Complete	22:58.35	[center]9
-----------------------------	-----------
Total Time:	43:39.24

hmpf...seems my calculating tricked me as time uses different set of numbers...current time is 36:47, so sub-40 will not be possible as those times are fastest i could get...however, sub-45 is the goal now and its doable.

i would really like to see you beat my times by starting with freudia...btw, do you get Zwei and Eins after fixed bosses or after 2nd and 6th boss? i always used that route so i dont know and i dont wanna test it out Cheesy

ill keep track of my time like this (in this post so i dont need to spam replies):

[table]
[tr][td][center]Stage[/td][td][center]Time[/td][td]Segment Number[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Liebea[/td][td]02:32.56[/td][td][center]1[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Luste[/td][td]02:31.95[/td][td][center]2[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Zorne[/td][td]01:48.96[/td][td][center]3[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Schwer-Muta[/td][td]01:47.89[/td][td][center]4[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Trauare (got Lilly)[/td][td]02:31.85[/td][td][center]5[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Grolla[/td][td]02:28:97[/td][td][center]6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sichte[/td][td]01:57:10[/td][td][center]7[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Freudia[/td][td]02:24:96[/td][td][center]8[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Fortresses Complete[/td][td]22:58.35[/td][td][center]9[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]-----------------------------[/td][td]-----------[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Total Time:[/td][td]43:39.24[/td][/tr]
[/table]

hmpf...seems my calculating tricked me as time uses different set of numbers...current time is 36:47, so sub-40 will not be possible as those times are fastest i could get...however, sub-45 is the goal now and its doable.

i would really like to see you beat my times by starting with freudia...btw, do you get Zwei and Eins after fixed bosses or after 2nd and 6th boss? i always used that route so i dont know and i dont wanna test it out :D

Attachment:

RKS_Segments_1-8.zip

65

2008-12-20 10:57:07 am

Well, I've gotten access to a better computer and I ordered pads(!) with superior d-pads, so I can work a bit on it and demostrate my points better.

At any rate, I do not believe starting with Liebea can possibly be the fastest route. I'll do a starting segment with Freudia to prove my point, but later. I'll watch that fortress segment of yours now.

Based on current knowledge I'd say sub-40 is the very least to aim for. Grolla mode, on the other hand, is likely about 30 minutes, by rough estimation. The stages are faster, but the bosses (especially the Iris 2 boss) will be slower after the first boss. Still, Grolla dashes faster than Spiritia slides, she can dash-jump and climb walls.

I practiced the Sepperin 1 boss fight somewhat, but it's still hard as hell. Getting better at it, though.

Quote from PreddY:

btw: does anyone know if there is a L tank in Trauares stage? the one under water. i thought about doing her first because she gives out Eins and her level has no real points of speeding it up aside from the minibosses. but i cant beat her with my initial hp, and even Lilli doesnt help...

Trauare doesn't give you Eins, Grolla does. I personally still recommend Freudia-Grolla-Liebea-Luste-Zorne-Schwer Muta-[that knife woman whose name I can't remember]-Trauare. I think it's the fastest route using the most optimal weapons for various situations.

Well, I've gotten access to a better computer and I ordered pads(!) with superior d-pads, so I can work a bit on it and demostrate my points better.

At any rate, I do not believe starting with Liebea can possibly be the fastest route. I'll do a starting segment with Freudia to prove my point, but later. I'll watch that fortress segment of yours now.

Based on current knowledge I'd say sub-40 is the very least to aim for. Grolla mode, on the other hand, is likely about 30 minutes, by rough estimation. The stages are faster, but the bosses (especially the Iris 2 boss) will be slower after the first boss. Still, Grolla dashes faster than Spiritia slides, she can dash-jump and climb walls.

I practiced the Sepperin 1 boss fight somewhat, but it's still hard as hell. Getting better at it, though.

[quote="PreddY"]btw: does anyone know if there is a L tank in Trauares stage? the one under water. i thought about doing her first because she gives out Eins and her level has no real points of speeding it up aside from the minibosses. but i cant beat her with my initial hp, and even Lilli doesnt help...
[/quote]

Trauare doesn't give you Eins, Grolla does. I personally still recommend Freudia-Grolla-Liebea-Luste-Zorne-Schwer Muta-[that knife woman whose name I can't remember]-Trauare. I think it's the fastest route using the most optimal weapons for various situations.

PreddY

2008-12-20 11:31:23 am

Hope rides alone.

Quote from 65:

I personally still recommend Freudia-Grolla-Liebea-Luste-Zorne-Schwer Muta-[that knife woman whose name I can't remember]-Trauare. I think it's the fastest route using the most optimal weapons for various situations.

grolla 2nd without Zwei? Is stachel a weakness to grolla or somewhat? trust me, you will miss harnisch on the grolla miniboss Smiley

dont know if stachel rapes it as hard as harnisch does, though.

im looking forward to see this proven! Cheesy

65

Edit history:

65: 2008-12-20 01:51:48 pm

2008-12-20 12:29:00 pm

Certainly, but before that, some feedback.

You've certainly improved your skills. Very nice battle against Graf(?) Sepperin, too. However, I still think that you could squeeze a minute out of that time. For example, you never used dash jump from a moving platform. It would save maybe 10-20 seconds on that Sepperin 3 corridor alone if used well. You also used Zwei on the wrong corridor in Sepperin 4. I believe the last long corridor would prove out to be a much more efficient place to use it.

Sepperin 2 and most of the Iris stages need some practice. You can slide past those fire flowers when the gravity is reversed. You could use charged shots between the bombs on the second Iris Machine battle. You should learn the Mold Demon pattern, too; it's fairly simple (and it's symmetrical, even if the gravity change does confuse me a lot in-battle it's still the same pattern).

Note that you can access Seeles Gewehr instantly by pressing L+R simultaneously. You don't really use that so I don't know if you knew that, but it's very useful in various situations like when you want to access Freuden Stachel or Seeles Gewehr quickly. Speaking of Freuden Stachel, you can shoot it during sliding. Be sure to take advantage of that! There were simply too many places where you could've slid and shot Freuden Stachel, yet you didn't. That weapon is fast, effective and plentiful. Don't hesitate to use it.

You didn't use the shoot after Lilli did damage on Iris in the last battle. That alone probably cost you 10+ seconds. There's probably more, but I can't remember anything else right now.

I did a little run-through through the castle stages using Grolla in 29-something minutes; replay can be found below.

I did die four times, but I think it's worth it to check it out: I got a text book battle against Sepperin 1 boss, the speed is overall fairly fast (not even near to SDA standards, though), I found a new "glitch" (you can use a cross tank after you've died and resume playing - just make sure you don't fall to pieces before doing so!) and killed the Mold Demon really, really fast even if I say so myself <<;

The hardest part about Grolla mode speed running is that the lower your health gets, the more damage you do, as demonstrated in the Demon battle.

Despite the fact that I die four or so times, I'm proud of this little replay of mine... for now. Feel free to comment.

Certainly, but before that, some feedback.

You've certainly improved your skills. Very nice battle against Graf(?) Sepperin, too. However, I still think that you could squeeze a minute out of that time. For example, you never used dash jump from a moving platform. It would save maybe 10-20 seconds on that Sepperin 3 corridor alone if used well. You also used Zwei on the wrong corridor in Sepperin 4. I believe the last long corridor would prove out to be a much more efficient place to use it.

Sepperin 2 and most of the Iris stages need some practice. You can slide past those fire flowers when the gravity is reversed. You could use charged shots between the bombs on the second Iris Machine battle. You should learn the Mold Demon pattern, too; it's fairly simple (and it's symmetrical, even if the gravity change does confuse me a lot in-battle it's still the same pattern).

Note that you can access Seeles Gewehr instantly by pressing L+R simultaneously. You don't really use that so I don't know if you knew that, but it's very useful in various situations like when you want to access Freuden Stachel or Seeles Gewehr quickly. Speaking of Freuden Stachel, you can shoot it during sliding. Be sure to take advantage of that! There were simply too many places where you could've slid and shot Freuden Stachel, yet you didn't. That weapon is fast, effective and plentiful. Don't hesitate to use it.

You didn't use the shoot after Lilli did damage on Iris in the last battle. That alone probably cost you 10+ seconds. There's probably more, but I can't remember anything else right now.

I did a little run-through through the castle stages using Grolla in 29-something minutes; replay can be found below.

I did die four times, but I think it's worth it to check it out: I got a text book battle against Sepperin 1 boss, the speed is overall fairly fast (not even near to SDA standards, though), I found a new "glitch" (you can use a cross tank after you've died and resume playing - just make sure you don't fall to pieces before doing so!) and killed the Mold Demon really, really fast even if I say so myself <<;

The hardest part about Grolla mode speed running is that the lower your health gets, the more damage you do, as demonstrated in the Demon battle.

Despite the fact that I die four or so times, I'm proud of this little replay of mine... for now. Feel free to comment.

Attachment:

rks010.rpy

PreddY

2008-12-20 01:08:31 pm

Hope rides alone.

first to your comments on my segment:

moving platform jump: i think this involves sliding and/or jumping off Zwei. this is not useable as that last flying cross in sepp3 could hit me into the hole.

the sepp4 corridor i used Zwei in i think its the better one overall. cuz in the 2nd corridor you stay up on the same level of platforms, while in the 1st you cant.

the problem is that sometimes the game and/or my pad dont react to my input, especially that "jump" after a slide so i often slide into spikes, thats why i played it save in iris2 on the flowers. i know you can slide under them.

meh, i dont like the yellow devil pattern, i like staying at the sides more Cheesy

same thing with stachel: sliding could bounce me into the death, so i walk sometimes instead of sliding when the edge is too near...my experience shows, the closer you are to the edge when sliding, the higher the chance the game will just not notice you pressing jump...

the using of the buster while that bomb ticks on iris is not an option, I WILL get confused by that as that battle is very hectic Smiley

btw did you notice my timing fail on the post above? ^^

nevertheless, thanks for the feedback.

now on your Grolla mode run:

dude, you rock. its insanely fast with Grolla and im glad you adapted the strat Vs the wall i showed you on youtube Smiley

if you do a real run on that, you could be so fast its insane. your boss fights all went well, especially the 8 boss refights with no E-tank...nice. you really should keep practicing Grolla and smash my Spritia time with Grolla. Some parts you did were near perfection...you should keep this up Smiley

maybe Grolla can get sub-20 on the fortresses. cant wait to see a serious segment of yours!

first to your comments on my segment:

moving platform jump: i think this involves sliding and/or jumping off Zwei. this is not useable as that last flying cross in sepp3 could hit me into the hole.

the sepp4 corridor i used Zwei in i think its the better one overall. cuz in the 2nd corridor you stay up on the same level of platforms, while in the 1st you cant.

the problem is that sometimes the game and/or my pad dont react to my input, especially that "jump" after a slide so i often slide into spikes, thats why i played it save in iris2 on the flowers. i know you can slide under them.

meh, i dont like the yellow devil pattern, i like staying at the sides more :D

same thing with stachel: sliding could bounce me into the death, so i walk sometimes instead of sliding when the edge is too near...my experience shows, the closer you are to the edge when sliding, the higher the chance the game will just not notice you pressing jump...

the using of the buster while that bomb ticks on iris is not an option, I WILL get confused by that as that battle is very hectic :)

btw did you notice my timing fail on the post above? ^^

nevertheless, thanks for the feedback.

now on your Grolla mode run:

dude, you rock. its insanely fast with Grolla and im glad you adapted the strat Vs the wall i showed you on youtube :) if you do a real run on that, you could be so fast its insane. your boss fights all went well, especially the 8 boss refights with no E-tank...nice. you really should keep practicing Grolla and smash my Spritia time with Grolla. Some parts you did were near perfection...you should keep this up :) maybe Grolla can get sub-20 on the fortresses. cant wait to see a serious segment of yours!

65

2008-12-20 05:10:39 pm

A few notes:
- The weapon switch on Iris Machine 2 works really well. Try it
- I found another way to beat Death: Hack him to half health with Grolla Schwert and equip Lilli. Now... let Lilli hit Death once (only once!) and he starts the jump routine. Next, start shooting him with the buster you can shoot when Lilli is equipped. Result: Death takes the same damage with the same routines (he does do that horizontal slash when you shoot, though, so stay sharp), but you will lose only two points of Lilli's energy. Remember that he'll use the horizontal slash the instant you shoot, but it'll come from the other side of the screen so there's a half a second difference. Methinks it'll save quite the lot of time (since your extra refill took ~10 seconds extra including screen transitions
- Start the Luste refight by mashing both jump and shoot and keep pressing forward. If my result is consistent, she'll do only a small jump and you'll kill her in record time. If that doesn't work try the same thing but without pressing forward.
- If you learn the pattern, the Mold Demon can be killed easily without a cross tank
- The "dash jump" can be executed by walking forward on the moving platform, then jumping. It's that simple. This will aid you with the Sepperin 3 & 4 Zwei travels, plus in various normal boss levels, too
- You can launch weapons when you enter a boss room. You can't really damage the boss, but I think you could start your jump on the edge of the previous screen, shoot a Zwei immediately and travel on it to the end of the boss room. I haven't managed to do it yet (should be easy on Trauare's underwater boss room, though, if you want to practice), but I think it could be used to cut time in the final Iris intro at the very least
- Graf Sepperin's willingness to perform appearances/disappearances is decided (pre-shooting aside) specifically based on the distance between you two. Curiously, he never disappears if you're one Spiritia sprite's worth away from him or a bit closer. If you're where the longer gap made by his flames would be, he will teleport. But I suppose you already knew that, seeing your Graf Sepperin fight was more or less perfect in terms of his appearance rate
- I believe you should need only two cross cans: one for Death, one in case the Mold Demon fight goes awry. You'll get the "forced" cross cans for boss repeats and the final boss, too, of course

Concerning taking Grolla second, you do lose time in the boss fight (Freuden Stachel does 1 damage, charged shot 2. You'll want to use charged shot, of course). However, Freuden Stachel kills the miniboss in approx. two seconds when used correctly and it's a very useful weapon overall in that stage (and all the other stages as well), so you'll only really lose time in the boss battle, some handicaps aside that are induced by not having Zwei. You'll take that and a lot more back when you have Eins for Liebea and Luste. You'll see.

I'll probably look into doing those demos tomorrow.

A few notes:
- The weapon switch on Iris Machine 2 works really well. Try it
- I found another way to beat Death: Hack him to half health with Grolla Schwert and equip Lilli. Now... let Lilli hit Death once (only once!) and he starts the jump routine. Next, start shooting him with the buster you can shoot when Lilli is equipped. Result: Death takes the same damage with the same routines (he does do that horizontal slash when you shoot, though, so stay sharp), but you will lose only two points of Lilli's energy. Remember that he'll use the horizontal slash the instant you shoot, but it'll come from the other side of the screen so there's a half a second difference. Methinks it'll save quite the lot of time (since your extra refill took ~10 seconds extra including screen transitions
- Start the Luste refight by mashing both jump and shoot and keep pressing forward. If my result is consistent, she'll do only a small jump and you'll kill her in record time. If that doesn't work try the same thing but without pressing forward. 
- If you learn the pattern, the Mold Demon can be killed easily without a cross tank
- The "dash jump" can be executed by walking forward on the moving platform, then jumping. It's that simple. This will aid you with the Sepperin 3 & 4 Zwei travels, plus in various normal boss levels, too
- You can launch weapons when you enter a boss room. You can't really damage the boss, but I think you could start your jump on the edge of the previous screen, shoot a Zwei immediately and travel on it to the end of the boss room. I haven't managed to do it yet (should be easy on Trauare's underwater boss room, though, if you want to practice), but I think it could be used to cut time in the final Iris intro at the very least
- Graf Sepperin's willingness to perform appearances/disappearances is decided (pre-shooting aside) specifically based on the distance between you two. Curiously, he never disappears if you're one Spiritia sprite's worth away from him or a bit closer. If you're where the longer gap made by his flames would be, he [i]will[/i] teleport. But I suppose you already knew that, seeing your Graf Sepperin fight was more or less perfect in terms of his appearance rate
- I believe you should need only two cross cans: one for Death, one in case the Mold Demon fight goes awry. You'll get the "forced" cross cans for boss repeats and the final boss, too, of course

Concerning taking Grolla second, you do lose time in the boss fight (Freuden Stachel does 1 damage, charged shot 2. You'll want to use charged shot, of course). However, Freuden Stachel kills the miniboss in approx. two seconds when used correctly and it's a very useful weapon overall in that stage (and all the other stages as well), so you'll only really lose time in the boss battle, some handicaps aside that are induced by not having Zwei. You'll take that and a [i]lot[/i] more back when you have Eins for Liebea and Luste. You'll see.

I'll probably look into doing those demos tomorrow.

PreddY

Edit history:

PreddY: 2008-12-21 07:08:24 am

2008-12-21 12:05:02 am

Hope rides alone.

thank you for those hints, i will start practicing now.

btw, my final time on the stages is 20:40.49. i highly doubt its possible to go below 20 using my route. feel free to show me off Smiley

you can watch my first 8 segments on the post with the times, if you want Smiley

be harsh, please.

Quote from 65:

- I found another way to beat Death: Hack him to half health with Grolla Schwert and equip Lilli. Now... let Lilli hit Death once (only once!) and he starts the jump routine. Next, start shooting him with the buster you can shoot when Lilli is equipped. Result: Death takes the same damage with the same routines (he does do that horizontal slash when you shoot, though, so stay sharp), but you will lose only two points of Lilli's energy. Remember that he'll use the horizontal slash the instant you shoot, but it'll come from the other side of the screen so there's a half a second difference. Methinks it'll save quite the lot of time (since your extra refill took ~10 seconds extra including screen transitions

hard, but confirmed.

Quote from 65:

- Start the Luste refight by mashing both jump and shoot and keep pressing forward. If my result is consistent, she'll do only a small jump and you'll kill her in record time. If that doesn't work try the same thing but without pressing forward.

confirmed.

Quote from 65:

- The "dash jump" can be executed by walking forward on the moving platform, then jumping. It's that simple. This will aid you with the Sepperin 3 & 4 Zwei travels, plus in various normal boss levels, too

will be executed in sepp2, 2nd time Zwei usage.

Quote from 65:

- I believe you should need only two cross cans: one for Death, one in case the Mold Demon fight goes awry. You'll get the "forced" cross cans for boss repeats and the final boss, too, of course

none for Death actually (btw its Grollas father :D), one for devil, one for iris machine 1 and maybe one for mister sepperin if the fight goes wrong somehow but the sepp stages were good enough to be kept.

i did a practice run (actually, a sudden death caused it to become a "practice" run) and it was faster than my 24:38 or so back then with 2 deaths. so my movement was good. i dashed under those pesky flowers and tried the faster kill on Death. turned out that this will cause me to need only 2 large Ws for Lilly. Nice. I still gotta rethink the usage of Sturm because it could clear a bunch of shielded enemies that slow me down. so metools, just those spear throwers. additionally, i made up a point of orientation on iris machine where the bomb will always hit her. (Preddy 1, arch nemesis 0)

one important question: does anyone know if the bomb can be pushed instead of be thrown like on the screen that demonstrates newly acquired weapons? there the bomb gets pushed, but i still dont know how to do this.

thank you for those hints, i will start practicing now.

btw, my final time on the stages is 20:40.49. i highly doubt its possible to go below 20 using my route. feel free to show me off :)

you can watch my first 8 segments on the post with the times, if you want :) be harsh, please.

[quote="65"]
- I found another way to beat Death: Hack him to half health with Grolla Schwert and equip Lilli. Now... let Lilli hit Death once (only once!) and he starts the jump routine. Next, start shooting him with the buster you can shoot when Lilli is equipped. Result: Death takes the same damage with the same routines (he does do that horizontal slash when you shoot, though, so stay sharp), but you will lose only two points of Lilli's energy. Remember that he'll use the horizontal slash the instant you shoot, but it'll come from the other side of the screen so there's a half a second difference. Methinks it'll save quite the lot of time (since your extra refill took ~10 seconds extra including screen transitions
[/quote]

hard, but confirmed.

[quote="65"]
- Start the Luste refight by mashing both jump and shoot and keep pressing forward. If my result is consistent, she'll do only a small jump and you'll kill her in record time. If that doesn't work try the same thing but without pressing forward. 
[/quote]

confirmed.

[quote="65"]
- The "dash jump" can be executed by walking forward on the moving platform, then jumping. It's that simple. This will aid you with the Sepperin 3 & 4 Zwei travels, plus in various normal boss levels, too[/quote]

will be executed in sepp2, 2nd time Zwei usage.

[quote="65"]
- I believe you should need only two cross cans: one for Death, one in case the Mold Demon fight goes awry. You'll get the "forced" cross cans for boss repeats and the final boss, too, of course[/quote]

none for Death actually (btw its Grollas father :D), one for devil, one for iris machine 1 and maybe one for mister sepperin if the fight goes wrong somehow but the sepp stages were good enough to be kept.

i did a practice run (actually, a sudden death caused it to become a "practice" run) and it was faster than my 24:38 or so back then with 2 deaths. so my movement was good. i dashed under those pesky flowers and tried the faster kill on Death. turned out that this will cause me to need only 2 large Ws for Lilly. Nice. I still gotta rethink the usage of Sturm because it could clear a bunch of shielded enemies that slow me down. so metools, just those spear throwers. additionally, i made up a point of orientation on iris machine where the bomb will always hit her. (Preddy 1, arch nemesis 0)

one important question: does anyone know if the bomb can be pushed instead of be thrown like on the screen that demonstrates newly acquired weapons? there the bomb gets pushed, but i still dont know how to do this.

65

Edit history:

65: 2008-12-21 09:38:16 am

2008-12-21 07:32:16 am

The bomb can be pushed by sliding towards it. This should be done in the Schwer-Muta refight, too. Note that it doesn't require weapon energy (unlike throwing), so you can use it as much as is necessary.

So you only need to pick up one cross tank that requires you to go out of your way, huh? (The Demon fight can be done without one, to be honest, so in the end you shouldn't require any cross tanks at all...) Actually, if you pick that in Sepperin 4 the only place you lose time from using a cross tank is when you actually use it. Good stuff.

So Death is actually Grolla's father? Heh, that explains a lot of stuff. Thanks for sharing. Smiley

I'll start watching those 8-boss segments now.

EDIT: I watched those segments of yours, PreddY, and now I'm 100% my route is faster. The only stage I can think of being faster is Grolla's stage thanks to your clever Zwei usage and the fact that you have the correct weapon. I think I can take that difference back in Liebea's stage alone, and since both Liebea and Luste stages benefit a lot from having Eins and the fact that you lost time on almost every stage for not having Freuden Stachel doesn't ease the issue. I will not be losing any time vs. your route in Freudia's stage, either, and seeing it's the first stage I take, it's pretty notable. Don't use die Geplante Zukunft on Freudia, it's considerably slower!

The turtle miniboss's weakness is Geister Wand, by the way, the Grolla miniboss goes down faster with Freuden Stachel and the Trauare minibosses can be bypassed with die Geplante Zukunft. You should use the lower route on that stage, though; it's a lot faster.

Your demos had some nice things, too, that I haven't thought about, like the Zwei usage in Grolla's stage, the use of Liebe's Strum in Sichte's stage and a couple of other minor things.

I'll try to make a demo that demonstrates the difference between our routes.

The bomb can be pushed by sliding towards it. This should be done in the Schwer-Muta refight, too. Note that it doesn't require weapon energy (unlike throwing), so you can use it as much as is necessary.

So you only need to pick up one cross tank that requires you to go out of your way, huh? (The Demon fight can be done without one, to be honest, so in the end you shouldn't require any cross tanks at all...) Actually, if you pick that in Sepperin 4 the only place you lose time from using a cross tank is when you actually use it. Good stuff.

So Death is actually Grolla's father? Heh, that explains a lot of stuff. Thanks for sharing. :)

I'll start watching those 8-boss segments now.

EDIT: I watched those segments of yours, PreddY, and now I'm 100% my route is faster. The only stage I can think of being faster is Grolla's stage thanks to your clever Zwei usage and the fact that you have the correct weapon. I think I can take that difference back in Liebea's stage alone, and since both Liebea and Luste stages benefit a lot from having Eins and the fact that you lost time on almost every stage for not having Freuden Stachel doesn't ease the issue. I will not be losing any time vs. your route in Freudia's stage, either, and seeing it's the first stage I take, it's pretty notable. Don't use die Geplante Zukunft on Freudia, it's considerably slower!

The turtle miniboss's weakness is Geister Wand, by the way, the Grolla miniboss goes down faster with Freuden Stachel and the Trauare minibosses can be bypassed with die Geplante Zukunft. You should use the lower route on that stage, though; it's a lot faster.

Your demos had some nice things, too, that I haven't thought about, like the Zwei usage in Grolla's stage, the use of Liebe's Strum in Sichte's stage and a couple of other minor things.

I'll try to make a demo that demonstrates the difference between our routes.

PreddY

Edit history:

PreddY: 2008-12-21 10:22:10 am

2008-12-21 10:16:12 am

Hope rides alone.

Quote from 65:

I'll try to make a demo that demonstrates the difference between our routes.

gogo

btw, hows your Grolla practice going?

65

2008-12-21 01:30:21 pm

I haven't worked on the Grolla mode.

Well, these are not exactly faster, per se, but that's just because the game lags like hell on me in certain levels. Take Luste's stage, for example: Mine time is roughly a minute slower even though I use Eins a lot and basically never stop anywhere except for the large gap. I think it's impossible to pull Mega Man 2 on that gap - there's not enough room vertical-wise and mostly too long distances horizontal-wise. Not to mention they don't speed up the stage nearly as much as they do elsewhere (assuming you could somehow pull it off). The platforms move pretty quickly, anyway.

At any rate, my FPS drops around 20-30 FPS at some points in various levels, meaning the time flows twice as fast for the same set of movement. My FPS shows during the replay. So, even though the timer says my time is slower, I fully believe this is faster than your route, PreddY (and the fastest route overall). I'd hope you'd watch the replays before jumping into conclusions.

Zip contains the replays for all 8 stages.

I haven't worked on the Grolla mode.

Well, these are not exactly faster, per se, but that's just because the game lags like hell on me in certain levels. Take Luste's stage, for example: Mine time is roughly a minute slower even though I use Eins a lot and basically never stop anywhere except for the large gap. I think it's impossible to pull Mega Man 2 on that gap - there's not enough room vertical-wise and mostly too long distances horizontal-wise. Not to mention they don't speed up the stage nearly as much as they do elsewhere (assuming you could somehow pull it off). The platforms move pretty quickly, anyway.

At any rate, my FPS drops around 20-30 FPS at some points in various levels, meaning the time flows twice as fast for the same set of movement. My FPS shows during the replay. So, even though the timer says my time is slower, I fully believe this is faster than your route, PreddY (and the fastest route overall). I'd hope you'd watch the replays before jumping into conclusions.

Zip contains the replays for all 8 stages.

Attachment:

RKS65.zip

PreddY

2008-12-21 02:02:03 pm

Hope rides alone.

your current time is 20:07.49 then.

ok, you showed me off.

maybe i will resume this game after I did MMV. until then. good luck.

65

2008-12-21 03:22:40 pm

I have no plans for doing a Spiritia run right now, so if you happen to change your mind, the passwords for my route are
A2, A3, A6, B6, D1, E3
A3, B2, B6, C2, D1, E3
B3, B6, C2, C3, D1, E3
A4, B6, C1, C2, D1, E3
A4, B6, C2, C4, E1, E3
A4, B5, C2, C6, E1, E3
A1, A3, A4, B5, D2, E1, E3
...and of course
A1, A4, B5, D4, E2, E6

I have a few other runs I'm working on so I'm not going to make a proper run very soon. I'd probably go for SS but my setup (lagging game and the pad with sub-par d-pad) isn't best suited for such things. Things may change, however.

I've noticed a few other things:
- Some boss rooms have a small window of opportunity during which you can jump or do whatever, even on the ground. We're talking about a couple of frames long window, though, so the best thing you can do is jump. You can keep doing stuff until you hit the ground, meaning you could shoot a Zwei and move around
- Some boss intros start immediately, some require you to touch the ground. Sichte's intro, for example, starts immediately

Oh, and using Eins after beating the boss just wastes time; I did it purely for entertainment purposes. Not recommended in a speed run.

I think sub-40 might be possible for Spiritia, but sub-41 is something to aim for for starters.

I have no plans for doing a Spiritia run right now, so if you happen to change your mind, the passwords for my route are
A2, A3, A6, B6, D1, E3
A3, B2, B6, C2, D1, E3
B3, B6, C2, C3, D1, E3
A4, B6, C1, C2, D1, E3
A4, B6, C2, C4, E1, E3
A4, B5, C2, C6, E1, E3
A1, A3, A4, B5, D2, E1, E3
...and of course
A1, A4, B5, D4, E2, E6

I have a few other runs I'm working on so I'm not going to make a proper run very soon. I'd probably go for SS but my setup (lagging game and the pad with sub-par d-pad) isn't best suited for such things. Things may change, however.

I've noticed a few other things:
- Some boss rooms have a small window of opportunity during which you can jump or do whatever, even on the ground. We're talking about a couple of frames long window, though, so the best thing you can do is jump. You can keep doing stuff until you hit the ground, meaning you could shoot a Zwei and move around
- Some boss intros start immediately, some require you to touch the ground. Sichte's intro, for example, starts immediately

Oh, and using Eins after beating the boss just wastes time; I did it purely for entertainment purposes. Not recommended in a speed run.

I think sub-40 might be possible for Spiritia, but sub-41 is something to aim for for starters.

PreddY

2008-12-22 03:27:08 am

Hope rides alone.

that changes my mind, as I hate competition while running, this gives me too much pressure.

I will first try to beat my time on segment 9, and after that adapt your route. its overall one minute faster if executed properly and thats too much to deny it.

I just need a break after all those tries Smiley

btw, you should really focus on Grolla, as I suck with her and you rule with her.

65

2008-12-25 05:09:45 pm

Not sure if I mentioned before, but changing gravity removes the shields of the leaf enemies in Iris 2 until they hit the ground or ceiling. Be sure to abuse that.

Vertical warping or zipping is possible. While fighting the hydra-esque mid-boss in Trauares level, I charged and jumped on one of the necks. I got hit (and was probably squeezed a bit by the necks and the pedestal), and teleported roughly 2-3 sprites' worth upwards the instant the damage registered and ended up standing on one of the higher necks above my initial placement. Sadly, I didn't save that play-through as it was 70+ minutes long, so I can't show it. Just putting it here in case someone gets any ideas.

I don't think it'll be all that useful, considering how the items work. Squeezing yourself anywhere is rather rare, even more so if you don't want to die. It's pretty interesting, though.

I also found out something else, regarding the Spiritia fight. When you've hacked half of her health off, she doesn't waste time to do the charged Klages Harnisch attack if you jump up the walls and do long slides down to half-way through towards the floor.

Not sure if I mentioned before, but changing gravity removes the shields of the leaf enemies in Iris 2 until they hit the ground or ceiling. Be sure to abuse that.

Vertical warping or zipping is possible. While fighting the hydra-esque mid-boss in Trauares level, I charged and jumped on one of the necks. I got hit (and was probably squeezed a bit by the necks and the pedestal), and teleported roughly 2-3 sprites' worth upwards the instant the damage registered and ended up standing on one of the higher necks above my initial placement. Sadly, I didn't save that play-through as it was 70+ minutes long, so I can't show it. Just putting it here in case someone gets any ideas.

I don't think it'll be all that useful, considering how the items work. Squeezing yourself anywhere is rather rare, even more so if you don't want to die. It's pretty interesting, though.

I also found out something else, regarding the Spiritia fight. When you've hacked half of her health off, she doesn't waste time to do the charged Klages Harnisch attack if you jump up the walls and do long slides down to half-way through towards the floor.