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Drifting Skies: 2015-06-19 09:34:32 am
Drifting Skies: 2015-06-19 09:33:56 am
Drifting Skies: 2015-06-19 09:11:35 am
steak Steak STEAK!!!
So, I just learned from watching a stream today that the PAL version of Legaia also uses the "easytype" version of the ROM that JP has, and the NTSC - US version uses the "hardtype" ROM.

Basically, it seems that enemies give roughly double money, 1.4-1.5x EXP, and they are weaker as well.  But I don't know how much slower it would be on account of framerate differences.

It's worth looking into how much faster it is to play the game on PAL or JP compared with NTSC.
Hello guys!

I want to let you know that I will soon start to run this game again after a long break. I have decided to play through the japanese version since it seems to be easier (faster) in No Slots category due to more gold/exp given from enemies.

I wonder if the European version is exactly the same as the Japanese version... In that case I could route from the English version (with buffed EXP/Gold) to see where I land. Smiley

I am looking forward to run this again. I will probably crush the current No Slots time due to the fact that Japanese version is so easy in comparison to NA version.

Drifting, you have a chart or some guidelines to point out exactly what the differences were between the NA and JP version? Maybe nobody ever investigated the matter. I hope that the bosses also drop double Gold and 1.4x more EXP. That would be amazing! Cheesy
steak Steak STEAK!!!
European (PAL) version does seem to use the easier version of the ROM and is likely to be the same as the US.  Any differences between PAL and JP are likely to be small, and the biggest downside is going to come from playing the PAL version at 50 fps, assuming they didn't correct for the speed difference.

As for the exact version differences:

"Yeah, I forgot to mention Exp and G of all enemies are adjusted from disc too. G is about 31% of what it is on disc and Exp is 75%. Before knowing that, I annoyingly had to copy the enemy stats out of memory while I was in battle since I couldn't find them on disc. The base stats were easy, but the element, exp, g, items were stored elsewhere via a pointer."

"Btw, for reference sake; These seem to be the most common manipulations to enemy data in the US version:

HP, MP, AGL, SPD: Same

ATK = x1.25
UDF/LDF = x2
INT = x1.125"

In other words, it appears that in the US version of the game, they modified enemy stats in the following way:

G: 31% of normal (enemies give around 3x Gold in the unaltered version)
EXP: 75% of normal (enemies give 33% more gold in JP)

Enemies have half defense, and slightly lower ATK and INT.

This is somewhat speculative, as no one has gone through the JP or PAL disc to rip the stats from that version to do an exact comparison, but that's what appears to be the case.


You can see that Gimard gives 55 EXP / 30 G in JP, compared with 42/16 in US.  He also takes a lot more damage in JP.
So in the interest of garnering some more runners of this game, I made a little janky guide to the most make-or-break aspect of the run: the slots.

The slots require very fast reflexes, rhythm, and patience. They are also very hard on your eyes, especially if you're playing on a CRT, which you should be if you want to avoid input lag.

Use this to plan out your own way of getting consistent at the bonus games.
steak Steak STEAK!!!
I just got back to my apartment a few days ago and have had to get some work done on my research as well as preparing for my class that starts on Tuesday (the 25th), so I haven't been particularly active in speedrunning over the past week or so, and I'm still working on StarTropics.

But I did finally get a CRT hooked up, so I will definitely have to look at working with the slot machines to see if I can't parse out a better point card strategy than the ones I've been using; if I could get a more consistent strategy down, not only could I potentially save several minutes in that aspect, but I could also potentially use the slots / point card on a couple more bosses; Rogue would be the obvious one since the Rogue Wind / Flame / Thunder animations are quite long.
I just realized that you can mash not only with X and O, but with the right analog stick as well. Doing a quarter-circle motion the right analog stick inputs X and O for each pass, so hitting X and O along with the right analog stick quarter circles can help ensure you hit each text box as early as possible.
steak Steak STEAK!!!
So, I did manage to slightly improve my time from the previous run through better execution in the Zeto% portion of the game, and then some time saves in Karisto Kingdom.

Behold, Legend of Legaia in 8:36:31 :

(Parts 2-6 should be visible in the sidebar of this video.)
steak Steak STEAK!!!
And, after much ado, I have done a 100% run of this game.  Since no one raised any challenges to the proposed definition, 100% is defined as:

- All Treasures (260/260)
- All Arts Learned (15/15 for each character)
- All Magic Learned (22/22 for each character)
- All bosses defeated (namely, Lapis, since Tetsu and the Bees give items which count toward 260 treasures)

And here it is - Legend of Legaia 100% in 14:51:39:

Hey, Drifting, I love this game and set up a playlist for your 100% run since you hadn't put one together yet. I can't remember how to format in this style to my it just a link, but if you open this on youtube, it should take you to the list.
steak Steak STEAK!!!
Oh, I have one: com/watch?v=wB42UDknGq0&list=PLSfHQergph0r_OuBvO5So4Rd-W4gCxvbs (delete the space)

That should link you to the first video and have a full playlist attached to it.  Not sure why it wasn't appearing as a public list?
Today I did the first PAL version run ever. However, it's a big special case with this one since my PS2 forces it to run in NTSC when it should be PAL. So it struggles to keep the frame rate at NTSC speeds at times. It lags a lot! Especially later in the game. Audio is also out of sync because sound is at PAL speed while image is at NTSC speed. So in battles you actually have to wait for the audio to catch up after an animation before the game actually continues. It's such a weird run, but I only did it to practice before a japanese run. Basically it's the JP version with English text (with a lot of added lag).

I managed to get 11:04:55 (which is not too impressive). It was a single-segment deathless run, which I'm proud of. Only saved before Cort (finale). I wasn't too impressed by the difference. It felt like the NTSC version just that farming segment went a bit faster I guess. That's about the difference I could make out. Also got a nice instant kill on 1 of the Virugos with Nighto. LOL! So it truly looks like the game is emulated because of the lags, but it is played on a PS2 with FAST/SMOOTH options enabled. Smiley

Part 1:

Part 2:
Edit history:
Deathtome: 2016-11-30 10:40:05 am
Deathtome: 2016-11-30 10:17:09 am
Deathtome: 2016-11-29 09:02:38 am
Deathtome: 2016-11-29 09:01:23 am
Deathtome: 2016-11-29 09:00:19 am
Deathtome: 2016-11-29 08:55:31 am
Deathtome: 2016-11-29 08:51:44 am
I have a surprise!

I finished a segmented run of the japanese version with an end time of 7:52:24 according to The End screen. I did NOT use the slot machines at all. Baka Fighter was the only way I got my Coins + that man in Vidna who gives you 10.

Also killed Lapis with the final save file of my speedrun just as a bonus. He died at 7:46:50 (Last Hit). The run consists of 69 segments.

As for some checkpoints if you want to know:
Zeto defeated 1:34
Xain defeated 2:53
Sol Tower reached 3:59
Zora defeated 5:56
Final Save: 7:35

If you have any questions regarding the run, go ahead. Smiley I hope to see more people speedrun this in segments. Would be very interesting to see what will happen now that the strategies are more optimized! I would think the run can get to around 7:45 mark with more patience and less mistakes. Like 1st try Nighto kills on Viguro/Berserker. I didn't have the patience to go that far, but in retrospective I think I should have.
steak Steak STEAK!!!
Just do note that the in-game timer is not accurate compared with real time.  It also doesn't increment while in the battle arena, for whatever reason.

I think one of my runs (maybe the 8:36:31 run) was a sub-8 IGT run.  Granted, that is with slots, so just pointing that out.  What I am not sure about is how the IGT works specifically.

Also not sure how much help you get from having the JP version, with the easier fights.

In any case, since I've been knocked out of my comfort zone, I suppose I should at some point get around to improving any% RTA.

EDIT: For a serious segmented run, can use the Lippian Flute and reset for the 1/128 chance of instant death.  Apparently, it works on bosses too.  Get your fishing cap on, Deathtome!

Edit history:
Deathtome: 2016-11-30 03:21:45 pm
Deathtome: 2016-11-30 03:19:32 pm
Deathtome: 2016-11-30 03:12:41 pm
Deathtome: 2016-11-30 10:29:44 am
I know the in-game time isn't accurate. This is most likely because of how much the game lags on the PS2. It drops below half of the normal frame rate a lot! So I believe that the framerate adds a second everytime 29.97 frames have been displayed (if it lags, the game slows down - but real life doesn't slow down!). This makes the real-time timing suffer because of how consistently the game drops below 15 FPS. I don't know if this issue is standalone for the Playstation 2 or if the same lag occurs on a PS1. I don't have a native american PS1 to test this with. I think the in-game timer works accurately if you just open the menu in a town or world map and go AFK 1 hour and time it? Or it could simply be related to the Fast Disc Speed, but I doubt so. What do you mean by timer stopping at battle arena? You mean the Muscle Dome or the entire place where you play Baka Fighter? In JP version it definetly added time while I was doing the Baka Fighter game at least. Or maybe you mean whenever you are NOT doing anything in that screen? Maybe this is a NA thing. Smiley

Haha, no way am I going to farm Lippian Flutes to kill all bosses with a 1/128 chance PER BOSS! It wouldn't even be fun that way either for the runner or the viewer to see the same thing happening over and over. That's outright torture. Maybe could be justified for one boss or two if someone has got the patience. I didn't even have the patience to grind out an instant kill on Berserker or Virugos. I mean, Berserker goes down in Nighto #3 (I allowed up to 4 Nightos between each reset). I was so unlucky and tired of that boss that I increased the 1 turn rule and accepted 2 turns.

I believe I bring a lot of interesting strategies and manipulations to the run since I don't grind the slots! You will probably be amazed at how much refining I've done to the strategies. The later half of the run is a lot better than the first half. It's not that the first half of the run is bad. More like I didn't invest as much time to manipulate and test things out as I did in the end. I'm very satisfied with it considering the language barrier. I eventually learned all the accessory names with all those resets! I believe it could be possible with a single-segment for my part, but we'll see. Maybe!

My old theory about the occasional walking seems to be true afterall! I thought maybe back then I was just imagining things, but clearly when I do those special walks it seems to shuffle the upcoming battle. I will try to explain it in text.

So let's say Vahn will get his battle between 50-75 steps (75% represents ~40 steps). Please note about where you get the battles in each area you want to learn this pattern on. My guideline is start walking at 75% and 100% represents the place where you first anticipate you will get an encounter (thinking ahead here is important).
1) You want to run as far as you can without walking (walking too early will cause the shuffle earlier and will most likely make it worse! This is good if you want to get battles early!)
2) Once you start walking you want to keep shuffling the upcoming encounter even more. It seems to have the greatest effect. Just walking for 1 second won't cut it. I don't know if you have to walk for certain number of steps or whatever before it shuffles. I just do it like that. Maybe the technique can still be perfected.
3) Walk for about 1 second, Run for about 1 second, Walk for about 1 second, Run for about 1 second (Repeat until battle occurs). You should get the encounter at about 100%-150% of original encounter spot (Approximately step 75-100 where you originally max could get to 75).
4) This doesn't work as well with Evil Talisman/Good Luck Bell. I think you have to walk twice as much to shuffle it. It seems to have no effect with my normal method with 1 second rule. Maybe it would work with a 2 second rule, but it's usually not worth it since you already get 50% less encounters with Evil Talisman.
5) Without this walking strategy I was NEVER able to get into Zeto's boss chamber without 1 encounter before. Starting this walking strategy was the only way I was ever able to get into the chamber without that one encounter beforehand. (Look at video). I tried this a few times and I didn't fail to get into his chamber a single time with the walking strategy, but never could happen without the walking. That was when I realized that it was not a myth but a reality. I think I did the same before Songi (1) too to decrease the amount of encounters.
6) PRO-TIP!!! Walking/Running diagonally will get you a battle earlier. So try to avoid running diagonally if possible. I noticed this in Sol Tower while giving Soru Bread to the chests (got 0 enc there!) and in Jette's Absolute Fortress where there is a lot of diagonal running needed. I think it counts diagonal running as 2 inputs at the same time = 2x fast to get an encounter (maybe it's just 1½x but I don't know, it sure increases the chances of an early battle significantly). I even got scared of running diagonally in areas with encounters because of this! I want you guys to know everything I can distribute to you!
Edit history:
Deathtome: 2016-12-06 05:05:39 pm

Just finished a single-segment run on the JP version. It's not perfect because of the language barrier. Accidentally sold a Power Elixir early on which caused much confusion and worry about final boss (I need that one). So I farmed one from Ogres outside Ratayu. Once I got back that missing Power Elixir I accidentally used it on Vahn during Cort 1. Haha, I thought it was Speed Elixir and then I just had to accept -1 Power Elixir on Cort which made 3 attacks into 4 attacks from Noa. Not only was that the mistake done in the run, but I also sold my Golden Compass, Defender Chain and Power Ring by mistake. So I had to backtrack to Wind Cave/Ratayu to purchase these back. I lost about 15-20 minutes on these mistakes. It's done without slot machines as well!

However, the end time is 9:59:50 (Power On - The End) In-Game Time is 9:10:55 by The End Screen.

I think I have done my job on this game for a while. I probably will return one day to get a better time in the JP version. A sub 9:45 should be a reliable and safe goal. Seemingly I was able to survive the Doomsday attack... It gives me hope. Wink
Quote from Deathtome:
6) PRO-TIP!!! Walking/Running diagonally will get you a battle earlier. So try to avoid running diagonally if possible. I noticed this in Sol Tower while giving Soru Bread to the chests (got 0 enc there!) and in Jette's Absolute Fortress where there is a lot of diagonal running needed. I think it counts diagonal running as 2 inputs at the same time = 2x fast to get an encounter (maybe it's just 1½x but I don't know, it sure increases the chances of an early battle significantly). I even got scared of running diagonally in areas with encounters because of this! I want you guys to know everything I can distribute to you!

There are invisible "encounter lines" on the ground. The game only checks for battles when you cross one, and they're all either vertical or horizontal.

As such, running diagonally gives you the same encounter rate as running horizontally then vertically to reach the same spot. If you have to reach a point that isn't directly in a compass direction, diagonal movement isn't going to hurt and will be faster. However, you don't want to go diagonally when orthogonal movement would work, because that causes you to cross the same line twice. Or in other words, don't use both up and down to reach a destination, and don't use both left and right to reach a destination; you should always try to make progress in at least one coordinate, and not allow your coordinates to fall behind.
steak Steak STEAK!!!
Legaia any% US in 8:16:32.

I feel I'm getting closer to optimal.  Of course, said that after the last run, too.

steak Steak STEAK!!!
And now, any% US in 8:01:21

So close to that 7:xx:xx, but yet so far away.  I would say something about the run becoming closer to optimal again, but there's probably some new strategy to break the game open further that I just haven't come up with yet.

Quote from S.K. Ren:
Well the best weapons in the game give +99 to attack so each Power Water is worth 4% of the best weapon so you'd need ~25 waters to reach it. However after wasting some time i find that the Gobu doesn't steal often enough to make it worth it (Let alone steal the damn Water).  Hrm... I wonder if there are any other place you can farm Waters early...

Have the waters be the only items in Noas inventory to guarentee said steal from gobu is all.