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garik16
2013-02-17 09:27:07 pm


Segment 14 Complete.  A few notes:  6:21 game time (6:42 real time) with about 5-6 seconds savable if i'm a little better at my movement/talking.  I also am skipping the phoenix in one of the jars for now...I'm pretty sure it'll still be there when I complete segment 15 (West Voz) and go back to Biron, and I need to go to the area where the Phoenix is in order to progress the story in Segment 16, so there's no point getting it yet.  I kept the segment because no random battles for the reasons I outlined above. 

Segment 15 is the fun one - I need to absorb Vera on at least one character (I'll probably do both for safety and will see if i can get away with one in practice) and need both characters to absorb nighto.  If i can get away with one vera I'd be golden - nighto comes alongside like half the monsters in the forest but vera only comes alongside itself and nighto at least early.  Need to test it more. 



One minor note:  I should have at some point moved Mei's Pendent to Noa from Vahn.  I'm not sure the next time I hit the equip screen, but i think it's actually to equip the pendent to Gala before Songi.  Soooo yeah,
Rakuen
2013-02-17 10:17:02 pm
Weegee Time
Quote from Dragondarch:
Quote from garik16:
and cut out a segment (bye bye .5 second penalty)

The save penalty is only applied when you can save anywhere, and when the saves themselves cost no time (Think quicksaving in PC games). Since neither of those apply here, there is no save penalty. At least, there shouldn't be.

I thought the penalty would still be incurred on the overworld map, but reading the FAQ again that's probably not the case.  Thanks for the correction, Dragondarch. Smiley

Good to see you trucking away at this this run, garik.  I wish I had more to offer than encouragement.  Keep up the good work!
Dragondarch
2013-02-17 11:48:00 pm
Pudding%
Quote from Rakuen:
Quote from Dragondarch:
Quote from garik16:
and cut out a segment (bye bye .5 second penalty)

The save penalty is only applied when you can save anywhere, and when the saves themselves cost no time (Think quicksaving in PC games). Since neither of those apply here, there is no save penalty. At least, there shouldn't be.

I thought the penalty would still be incurred on the overworld map, but reading the FAQ again that's probably not the case.  Thanks for the correction, Dragondarch. Smiley

Good to see you trucking away at this this run, garik.  I wish I had more to offer than encouragement.  Keep up the good work!

Yeah, my understanding of the save penalty was basically "If it doesn't cost you time, and you can do it anywhere, then the penalty would be applied. If it does cost you time, AND/OR it can't be done anywhere, then no penalty is applied."
Honestly seems a little silly to apply a .5 second penalty when he's already spending ~12 seconds to save the game. Tongue
garik16
2013-02-22 11:31:16 pm
So testing West Voz - it's probably around an 8 minute segment. 

It also sucks - you need to get Vera-Nighto twice which happens sometimes but othertimes doesn't, double lippid groupings sometimes are too fast for you to run away and oh yeah, the damn seru sometimes don't like to be absorbed, ivory book or not.  Oh and Gala needs to survive both battles i win. 

At least I've got the route down....
garik16
2013-03-20 08:33:49 pm
I realize from a conversation by PM by Ryuken that I haven't managed to post my notes on each segment here.  I'm going to do that in this post so that anyone else who wants to pick up the game can follow my work. 

General Information:

I've described how the random battle system works earlier in this thread.  The system will entail a lot of resets after battles to ensure the maximum distance between random battles at times, creative segment ending on the world map to reduce battles on the world map, as well as using saving and additonal segments to just eliminate random battles on certain long treks of the world map altogether.  Also of note is that you can never get the same enemy twice in a row in a random battle if there is more than one possible grouping of enemies in an area.  This has implications for when you're grinding (you may need to segment out to cut out a random battle) . 

Bosses and leveling.  As I noted earlier in the thread, nearly every boss after Octam is actually considered to be of a certain element.  The end result is that you can reduce damage from these bosses by around half  through the equiping of the relevant elemental jewels.  Conveniently you can purchase these jewels from Underground and above ground Octam.  The elemental bosses are:

Songi2: Dark
Von Saryu: Unknown (Either Dark or Earth, haven't tested)
Dohati: Dark
Gaza 1: Light
Gaza 2: Dark
Che Delilas: Earth
Lu Delilas: Light
Gi Delilas: Fire
Zora: Dark
Rogue: Unknown (untested)
Jette: Dark
Cort1: Dark
Songi 3: Dark.

Needless to say, Ebony Jewels, which protect against Dark Element - are incredibly useful - thanks to them, you can beat the game without any character above level 26. 
Three Bosses need special mention:
Berserker can and should be killed with first turn Nighto - same goes for the miniboss Berserkers (which means a bunch of resets in rogue tower). 
Xain is not elemental because he hates you.  The likely level you'll be at for Xain without grinding is around 9 each.  Ryuken has proven that it's possible to kill Xain at this low level - some grinding may however make this segment more possible and more grinding is necessary.  Regardless, Xain is the last truly difficult boss in the game. 
Cort 2, the Final Boss is the other non-elemental boss.  However, his main annoying attack is a physical attack.  As a result, he can be beaten at a low level by using shield elixers and wonder elixers to buff up a character (I used 4 wonder and 2 shield on Vahn) such that he can survive any attacks and deal around 4500 damage per turn.  You'll need to then basically spirit with the other two characters repeatedly.  Doomsday will still kill the Super Character, but if he doesn't use it twice, you'll be fine. 

Segment Information:  NOTE: ALL RANDOM BATTLES RUN FROM UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED:

Segment 1: Beginning through saving Rim Elm and getting point card.
-----Tetsu
-----Healing Leaf in Vahn's House
-----Magic Leaf in Elder's House
---Attack Random
---Item Healing Leaf
---Spirit
---Up Down Up
-----House to trigger events
-----Elder
-----Genesis Tree
-----Fight Gimard, fight both gimards more to use up MP with gimard and to get XP (Need to be LVL4 for Caruban) 
-----Mei's House, Escort her to Vahn's, Finish Segment by saving when leaving Rim Elm. 
-----Equip Mei's Pendant, Hunter's Clothes
-----Re-enter Rim Elm, Obtain Point Card.
-----Leave Rim Elm move to a spot just behind Hunter's spring without a random battle.
Save - End Segment 1. 

This segment is actually a partial combination of segments 1 and 2 that I detailed here.  Doing it this way rather than separating out the travel to Drake Kingdom allows you to cut out at least 1 random battle.  You want to flee on first try from the first gimard, obtain gimard in 3 attacks from the second gimard, and go fast enough to kill both other gimards first turn with the gimard spell to hit you to level 2 and then you want to dodge any other random battles - they're an automatic reset.

Segment 2 - Rest of Travel to Drake Castle
Go to Drake Castle and save right outside. 

In theory, if Segment 1 has been pulled off to the best extent possible, it should in theory be possible to do this with no random battles (I need to check on emulator to confirm this).  Note:  To get the maximum range between random battles, you need to make a garbage segment where you fight a battle, then reload your save.  This is because the game will keep the counter that counts down till you hit a random battle at the same value it was in the previous segment and that random battle counter resets to a possible higher value after a random battle than after a total reset of your console. 

Current time for this is 18:12, in theory a minute is shavable by avoiding the random battles this way and from a tighter Segment 1. 

Segment 3:
Drake Castle: 

Get Door of Light
Left Door for Key --> Don't go too far forward to trigger cutscene
Right Door for Key
Right Door for Key
Right Door for Sleep Room
Get Fire Book 1
Save. 

In this segment, you ideally want to fight only two random battles.  The first you run away from.  The second needs to be in the 3rd part of the castle, where you can obtain the Skeleton-Drake Ghost fight.  That fight gives the maximum EXP and 5 of these fights will get you to the magical level 4.  You can win each fight with gimard on each enemy. 

NOTE:  In theory you can get a drop of a magic leaf from the Skeletons.  I have NO idea how to make drops consistent but if it's ever found possible, this makes things potentially much easier. 

Segment 4-6: Grinding:  Resetting the console in between segments, you do 3 segments of you fighting ghost-skeletons, with you using one segment to grab the final key.  Again double gimard makes each fight quick.
Segment 7:  Go to Drake Castle exit, fighting one more Ghost-Skelelton battle.  From there go to Mt. Rikuroa.  If done right, you'll do this without fighting a battle on the world map, finally switching control to Noa.  Save outside Mt. Rikuroa - it's faster than having to move noa backwards to save at the save point. 

Segment 8:  Noa Part 1: 
Dolphin Kick (LLRL) is the art of choice here.  Answer Terra's questions and then fight two red and one black puera to level.  Ideally you can kill these guys in 6 combined turns by dolphin kicking every turn, getting hit at the right time and the first red guy never blocking, but it's really really tough.  Best I've gotten is 7 turns.  Get through to outside of cave with two random battles.  Save. 

Segment 9:  Go from outside of cave to Mt. Rikuroa, fighting one random battle before reaching the save point. 
Segment 10:  Save point fighting one random battle up to Golem.  Golem sucks - it'll take 8-9 turns to kill him and you need terra to attack a lot - and she frequently does not.  Use Spirit-Tempest Break 3x before switching to Dolphin Kick, because spiriting ensures your health stays up so Terra won't stop to heal you.  From Golem, walk all the way down the path to the treasure chest where you pick up the phoenix, then save at save point.  If you get the best possible random battle counter reset, you can do this without a random battle before golem. 
Segment 11:  Enter cutscene with Noa and take Vahn up to the save point before Caruban.  This takes 2 random battles.  It's possible to absorb Vera here with Vahn, but I'm not doing so yet.  Also there's a chest on your path up steps on the mountain that contains a healing bloom to pick up.
Segment 12:  Caruban!  Kill him in 3 turns with 3 lucky gimards (need to do around 720 damage combined) and tempest break and dolphin kick.  Caruban has 1024 HPs.  When done, use Fire book 1 on Vahn and Door of Light out of there. 


That's it for now, more later. 
garik16
garik16
Edit history:
garik16: 2013-03-23 11:06:43 pm
garik16: 2013-03-23 10:57:57 pm
garik16: 2013-03-23 10:57:11 pm
2013-03-23 10:55:04 pm
Segment 15, West Voz Forest, COMPLETE!  In 9:03 game time (up to 1:06:22 game time total right now).  Absorbed all 4 seru - 2 Nightos, 2 Veras - in 3 battles, failed to run from only one battle, gala survived it all, etc.  I screwed up equipping I think - I want to end up with Gala at Mei's Pendant, Defender Chain, Ivory book (for Mist Generator 1), Vahn with nothing, Noa with her weapon equipped and Deep Sea Jewel and Thunder Ra Seru Egg....but I forgot to equip the weapon and I think i have thunder egg rather than the pendant on Gala.  That's 30 seconds off that I can improve upon in my final try. 

Here's the completed segment:



Oh, and for a bonus, the ULTIMATE Legaia Troll:




EDIT: Anyone know how to embed youtube videos on this forum? 
Rakuen
2013-03-23 11:05:57 pm
Weegee Time
Use http instead of https for your links.  They will automatically embed if they're from Youtube.

Really good luck there with getting all the Seru you need in a small number of battles! Smiley
garik16
2013-03-23 11:09:10 pm
Quote from Rakuen:
Use http instead of https for your links.  They will automatically embed if they're from Youtube.

Really good luck there with getting all the Seru you need in a small number of battles! Smiley


Thanks!  And yes, thankfully I won't be dealing with absorbtion luck for a while - I absorb one seru in the next two dungeons, but I can easily reset till I get that.  After those two, I don't need seru till Octam for the healing seru, which will be annoying but shouldn't take as long due to less possible battle groupings iirc. 

Of course, next dungeon I need to get a double first turn nighto kill on both minibosses.  Ryuken apparently couldn't do it in about 144 attempts.  FUN!
garik16
2013-03-25 12:06:09 am
Segment 16 - Current time: (3:44) - to East Voz:



So I spent about 35 minutes doing attempts at Segment 16, got one attempt at a 4:30 then this 3:44 back to back. Then for the next 20 minutes, I couldn't get to the Monastery without an encounter.  Just awful RNG. 

I can probably slice about 15 seconds off this time by getting great RNG and getting no battles from the Monastery exit to East Voz.  I'll try that for a little bit before moving on to East Voz.
garik16
2013-03-27 12:37:39 am
Okay, got Segment 16 down to 3:37 despite not getting the RNG luck - I'm keeping it for now.

Segment 17 is East Voz Forest:  http://www.twitch.tv/garik16/c/2076800
Current time is 4:10, but I can shave off around 30 seconds because i 3 times failed to run successfully.

Segment 18  is the first doozy - requiring tons of resets to kill the viguros in a reasonable amount of time.  I killed them in an unacceptable 6 turns and got a 10 minute segment - the goal is a kill by turn 3 (to save the magic leaf), preferably a double kill on turn 1 (the god luck).  Killing on turn 3 would make it an 8 minute segment, putting me at around 1:22 or 1:21 going into zeto's dungeon. 
garik16
2013-03-29 09:45:41 pm
So first I get Segment 17 down to 3:02 (1 minute and 8 seconds saved!) just by getting first turn runs every time, despite about 5-6 seconds of bad movement/controls. 

And then, after an hour of attempts, I get......this:



The god luck - First Turn Double Nighto kill, = a 6:57 segment, cutting off 4 minutes off my miserable first attempt. 
garik16
2013-03-31 12:28:36 am
Act 1 (Mist Generator 1 down) Complete in 1:47:46!  That's roughly 43 minutes faster than Ryuken's rough practice run.  Characters are at levels 7,7,7 so lower than in his run but the three characters are literally 1 battle away from leveling (Vahn's 22 EXP away!).  Figure I'm likely at 9,9,9 for xain without grinding which we know is doable, just a nightmare to do. 

Segment 19 was beating Songi, which takes 6 gimard hits.  Didn't matter, I needed to heal 14 times:



Seriously 14 heals, 6 attacks.  Nice ratio.  And this was with amazing luck.

Zeto is less stupid - Just swing swing swing and pray you don't get some bad luck with his physical attacking noa too much.  I managed to do EXACTLY on the dot 5K damage to him (I measured it afterwards) which i think is his exact # of HP. 



Might take a break from some runs of this for a few days to catch up on other things. 
garik16
2013-04-19 11:30:31 pm
Okay through Berserker and now up to the Segment of Doom:  SLOT MACHINES.

Berserker can be found here btw:


Slot Machines are doable - if you get okay luck just hitting them fast you'll get a few 30 coin victories in a row which is generally enough to get you going until you hit a jackpot.  Each 3 hand jackpot is worth on average 375 coins (and up to 3000) and i hit one in 3 minutes.  So perhaps 30 minutes of slots will be all I need.
garik16
2013-04-20 11:50:46 am
Okay slot machines are doable though timing needs luck.  I just got 1100 coins in 11 minutes, so my goal of 6000 going at that rate would take an hour.  Not optimal - was hoping for 30 minutes at most. 

Interestingly, the game cheats.  After X amount of time playing the game, the game will say "Kick" or "Punch" up top.  Within a few spins, you WILL get those 3 in a row. 
garik16
2013-04-20 11:33:34 pm
The Miracle slots:  http://www.twitch.tv/garik16/c/2183396

I'm at a point about 15 minutes worth of slots where i CAN continue, but i'd like 2000 more coins.
garik16
2013-04-23 07:59:59 am
My hatred of the slot machines knows no bounds.  I'm going to be spending like a half an hour every night working these things till I get it, but last night I spent 30 minutes on the slots, doing essentially 10 3 minute segments.  I got at least 9 bonus games, at least 5 of which were triple bonus games. 

Average coin total for a bonus game should be 225.  I hit over that like twice, and never more than 420.  In the triple bonus games I never totaled more than 500.  ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
garik16
2013-04-24 09:30:45 pm
Okay just to confirm - latest total is 5300 coins in 24 minutes of slots, aim is for 6K, at 2:27:27 time right now - So this will be around 27 minutes for 6K coins - with more resets figure this could get down to 20 minutes.

What this means is that it confirms what has been looking pretty sure for a while: 

Legaia is speed-runnable at a reasonable pace.  For comparison's sake, in 20 minutes, you can do roughly 2 games of Baka Fighter, maybe less, and get 900 coins (instead of 6K), and just have enough to technically complete the game, and that'd be difficult without a lot of items.  here I have enough coins to get every necessary item and have enough left over for a few incense later on that can save me a bunch of time (I need to time later on in the game how much time incense saves me, but if it's enough it may technically be worthwhile to keep doing coin runs until you can get enough incense to skip every random battle from that point on.....but somehow I doubt it and i doubt i'd be interested in doing that).

=========================
For anyone who also wants to run Legaia, here's how the slots work.  They're basically too fast to time, don't even bother trying.  They're really random.  However, it's not uncommon to get a few 30 coin victories in a row.  This is the key at first with your first 10 coins, you can get to like 90 coins with a few 30 coin victories in a row, though this may take a few resets.  Don't bother guessing the reels, just hit each button as soon as possible.  When you get around 90 coins, end your first segment.

Then keep playing as quick as you can and eventually you'll get a bonus game.  There are two types of bonus games:
3 Kicks = Single Bonus Game.
3 Punches = Triple Bonus Game.

The bonus game looks like this:



Naturally you want 3 punches.  Now the bonus games can be beaten by skill it seems to an extent - that's how i got the magical 1000 (perfect) coin bonus game at one point.  Still it's incredibly hard and very easy it seems to get a "1" on one of the reels if you try this - i've basically taken to blind running them at this point. 

To optimize speed running, I've taken to going for at least 700 coins in 3 minutes per segment, with a reset if you get less.  Naturally this means that nearly all single bonus games will be resets.  In a real run, I may say 1K or more because that will allow me to do the machines in 20 minutes or under. 

NOTE:  As mentioned above, the slot machine will occassionally cheat in YOUR favor.  Every now and then the machine will start yelling "PUNCH!"  "PUNCH!"  or "KICK!" "KICK!."  When that happens, the game will cheat so that you are more likely to get those line up on your reels, such that in a few spins you are guaranteed to get a bonus game of that type.  I have no idea what causes this. 
garik16
2013-04-25 09:09:34 pm
Okay, DONE WITH SLOTS:  2:29:41 to hit 6400 coins, sorry there's no video of this.  I then also bought a war soul, 4 power elixers and 4 shield elixers giving me 5 power and 6 shield (I probably should buy 3 shield and 7 power instead, but ill be fine with this).  oh and a spirit jewel.  I now have 4184 coins left, 1350 of which are for plot related items, the remaining 2834 can be used for useful extra items.  And i could save 8 minutes on this probably in a real run. 

So now one of the most random parts of the game is done.  Soon, within probably like 4 segments, I'll be on the randomest part of the game: Xain.  Beat him, and we're clear. 

Holy Cow. 
Rakuen
2013-04-25 09:33:52 pm
Weegee Time
All that fighting against the RNG to prove some theorycrafting for the run to come.  My hat's off to you for your dedication!
garik16
garik16
Edit history:
garik16: 2013-04-26 09:27:05 am
2013-04-26 07:44:33 am
Quote from Rakuen:
All that fighting against the RNG to prove some theorycrafting for the run to come.  My hat's off to you for your dedication!


To be fair, I'd probably have started doing a real run side by side with the testing at this point if I could, but i lack the equipment needed to record a real run so I'm doing this test run as a way to ensure that my real run will go as smooth as possible.  And it's not like I'm close to done with the test run either! 

Besides which, the slot machines are an easy RNG segment because it takes you 20 seconds to get to the meat of the segment and each segment should take 3 minutes at most.  So each failure is quick.  By contrast my Xain segment might take 2 minutes to get UP to the Heavy RNG part, and is probably like a 10 minute segment overall.  Oh god.
garik16
2013-05-04 08:49:32 pm
Wow this sucks.  I screwed up this run bad - Apparently the Zalan Letter sidequest is not optional, and you must do it.  Oops.  So i lose about 2 minutes here because i need to go back to vidna, at least.  Probably 5 minutes.  DOH! 

Meanwhile, I figured this out at a segment where i got perfect luck, 3 orbs in 3 battles, all absorbed.  ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
Shiden
2013-07-20 09:24:23 pm
I did a little test to see if text speed in the Japanese version was faster. Surprisingly enough it is identical. I'm going to start  playthrough of it to see if I notice anything that could benefit speed running at all. Garik when you start recording attempts I hope you're going to play on a PS1 because Legaia lags on PS2 for some odd reason. Also I don't even know if the fast disc speed makes up for that or not. Just whatever you do don't play it on PS3 because the game crashes in Conkram 100% of the time. O_o

Have any updates for us? Been a couple months. ^-*
Wallcrusher
2013-07-21 02:04:15 pm
Dogi the wallcrusher
I don't think either disc setting for PS2 speeds up legaia at all. The arts come out extremely slowly for some reason I've never understood. Noa's miracle arts take like 30-40 seconds instead of 15-20 on PS2 I believe.
garik16
garik16
Edit history:
garik16: 2013-07-21 07:49:53 pm
2013-07-21 07:49:26 pm
Quote from Shiden:
I did a little test to see if text speed in the Japanese version was faster. Surprisingly enough it is identical. I'm going to start  playthrough of it to see if I notice anything that could benefit speed running at all. Garik when you start recording attempts I hope you're going to play on a PS1 because Legaia lags on PS2 for some odd reason. Also I don't even know if the fast disc speed makes up for that or not. Just whatever you do don't play it on PS3 because the game crashes in Conkram 100% of the time. O_o


Yeah, Shiden, I've streamed the last two days trying to finish the octam segment.  I got the god luck 3 orb battles in a row last night.....only to fail to absorb the orb on the third one.  Ugh.  So I've gotten the god luck twice, and both times i've screwed up the segment. 


Quote from Wallcrusher:
I don't think either disc setting for PS2 speeds up legaia at all. The arts come out extremely slowly for some reason I've never understood. Noa's miracle arts take like 30-40 seconds instead of 15-20 on PS2 I believe.


There is loading between rooms, which is short, but might add up.  I only have a fat PS2 however, so I'm not sure if I can even get fast disc speed on that. 
garik16
2013-08-15 10:36:11 pm
For those curious, about 2 weeks ago i cleared Octam (in a slightly suboptimal fashion but whatever it's just the test run) so I'm at the Shadow Gate. 

But before i get on to Xain (oh god), I think tomorrow night, around 10:30 or 11, I'm going to try an attempt at doing an RTA straight through through the end of Act I.  I still don't think it's possible, but I"m curious due to the C4L signups to see how badly RTAing this game would go.  I finished Act 1 in under 2 hours segmented, so figure 2:30 would be a good time RTA, although 3 hours is more likely for my first time.  Will need to do more grinding to not die to Viguros or Songi1.