Legend of Legaia

2015-03-02 04:26:05 pm

If I recall correctly, Tough Love rolls something like 13 separate 50% chances to inflict confusion, but if you don't have the AGI to use it turn 1, it doesn't much matter, I'd think.

Deathtome

2015-03-03 10:41:50 am

Really nice work! Grats again on the WR. Smiley

I hope you keep improving the time. Sub 11 should not be difficult. ;-)

Drifting Skies

2015-03-03 01:12:00 pm

steak Steak STEAK!!!

Sub 11 is the goal, preferably single-segment as well. I've got to finish third-year paper over the next two weeks, the weekend of the 21st is Dragons of Tarkir prerelease, so I'll be occupied most of that weekend, and then there's third-year paper conference the following week. However, given that third-year paper presentations will be over after that and I should have some time to relax by then, I can probably do another WR attempt on either March 28 or April 4.

Regarding Tough Love, it is 13 separate 50% chances to confuse, but there's 0 probability that Noa will have enough AGL to do so without Spirit until level 8, and it's not consistent until L11, so that's not really an option, unfortunately.

Drifting Skies

2015-03-06 10:56:23 am

steak Steak STEAK!!!

Anyway, here is a link for the WR videos:

I apologize for the fan flickering on and off for the first two and a half hours - there were microphone issues that I didn't know about until a couple of hours in.

I will be doing another WR attempt on Saturday, March 28. I'll be starting at 9:30 AM my time (MST - this is 9:30 AM PDT, 12:30 PM EDT, 5:30 in Great Britain, and so forth - 30 minutes later for most of the world but 30 minutes earlier for me because there's no Daylight Savings Time in Arizona.)

Drifting Skies

2015-03-28 10:29:40 am

steak Steak STEAK!!!

Just want to post so people are aware that I am about to start another WR attempt right now; hope as many people as possible can tune in. Last run was mediocre in the RNG department - hopefully this one will be better. Especially with those awful slots.

Drifting Skies

2015-03-31 10:31:23 pm

steak Steak STEAK!!!

Alright, for those who didn't catch my post elsewhere: There's a hundred bucks in it for the first person to RTA Legaia in under 11 hours if that time is beaten by year end. If I am the first person to do it, then the $100 goes to whoever manages to break my WR by the end of 2015.

Drifting Skies

2015-04-08 05:30:26 pm

steak Steak STEAK!!!

Anyway, in other Legaia news, I have created a new category for players who want to participate in Legaia speedrunning but who don't want to do 12 hour speedruns. This category has the objective to beat Zeto as quickly as possible, without playing the rest of the game. This creates a speedrun at just under two and a half hours and I think this is a good category for racing.

This is a run I just did today which completes Zeto% in 2:24:31: http://www.twitch.tv/driftingskies/c/6502320

I sincerely hope that any would-be speedrunners who are interested in the game but not in a 11:30:00 run take this challenge and give it a shot. I'd like to get Zeto% to get some publicity and some races going in the not-too-distant future.

Solarplex

2015-04-09 10:42:28 am

Amazing Job so far!

Drifting Skies

2015-04-12 12:32:07 am

steak Steak STEAK!!!

Thank you. I wanted to get community opinion on a matter which may become relevant in the coming months: What exactly would 100% completion of this game be?

I propose the following definition:

* 260/260 items collected
* All characters with 22/22 Magic (this necessitates the hidden Ra-Seru summons / ultimate levels, which in turn necessitates 15/15 arts learned for each character.)
- The above three things (items, magic, and arts) are tracked and visible on the endgame screen. In addition, I add one more thing:
* Lapis defeated

This does not include:
* Earth Egg (100,000 coins)
* Water Egg (20,000 fishing points at Buma)
* War God Icon (50,000 fishing points at Sebucus; the one for beating Master Course is part of the 260/260)
* Level 99 / Evil Seru Key / Evil Talisman (the optimal route will of course get Evil Talisman via glitch)
* All magic at L9
* All Super Arts used
* Max Stats / Items

If anyone has an alternative definition for 100%, please post it. I'd like to make this a community decision, even if that community is really just me and maybe one or two other people.

Thank you.  I wanted to get community opinion on a matter which may become relevant in the coming months: What exactly would 100% completion of this game be?

I propose the following definition:

* 260/260 items collected
* All characters with 22/22 Magic (this necessitates the hidden Ra-Seru summons / ultimate levels, which in turn necessitates 15/15 arts learned for each character.)
 - The above three things (items, magic, and arts) are tracked and visible on the endgame screen.  In addition, I add one more thing:
* Lapis defeated

This does not include:
* Earth Egg (100,000 coins)
* Water Egg (20,000 fishing points at Buma)
* War God Icon (50,000 fishing points at Sebucus; the one for beating Master Course is part of the 260/260)
* Level 99 / Evil Seru Key / Evil Talisman (the optimal route will of course get Evil Talisman via glitch)
* All magic at L9
* All Super Arts used
* Max Stats / Items

If anyone has an alternative definition for 100%, please post it.  I'd like to make this a community decision, even if that community is really just me and maybe one or two other people.

Ryuken

Edit history:

Ryuken: 2015-04-12 10:25:57 am

Ryuken: 2015-04-12 10:25:20 am

2015-04-12 10:25:10 am

I'm the man.......nothing else needs to be said

I think your 100% definition is spot on, mainly everything you see at the final screen and Lapis defeated. Other than that nothing else is kept track of, I guess MAYBE have to have the Muscle Dome completed..........MAYBE since that is an optional sidequest but if that was included I cant really see keeping out the Earth Egg and Water Egg and there is NO WAY I would want those in ANYONES 100% for their sanity and my own

EDIT: Possibly also Tetsu and the Bees since they are also "optional bosses" but im not sure on that one

Rakuen

2015-04-12 12:24:27 pm

Weegee Time

The stuff tracked at the end of the game makes sense. As for truly optional bosses, those who aren't gatekeeping something you need for 100% (are there any?), I'd say kill all of them or kill none of them. It seems a bit arbitrary to take a middle ground.

Drifting Skies

2015-04-12 07:04:10 pm

steak Steak STEAK!!!

Tetsu and Bees are both included in 100% by virtue of the Honey and the Mettle Gem being part of the 260/260. Muscle Dome Master Course is also required by virtue of the same (The War God Icon from beating Master Course is one of the 260/260 items.)

I definitely want to keep Earth Egg / Water Egg / second War God Icon out since I don't think anyone wants to do 70,000 fishing points.

I do, however, think that Lapis should be included even though Evil Medallion isn't part of 260/260, just to make sure that all three optional bosses are beaten.

Ryuken

2015-04-12 07:11:20 pm

I'm the man.......nothing else needs to be said

For some reason I was thinking the 260/260 was only in regards to treasure chests, not sure where I got that idea from honestly. But yeah then I would agree with everything but Lapis then because if it isnt included in the 260/260 then dont get it or get it and the eggs. And its not like Lapis would be anything other than a slight detour once you can Master course and use the Lippian Flute to have MP for the fight

Drifting Skies

2015-04-12 07:27:11 pm

steak Steak STEAK!!!

Spikefish Flute lets you escape, Lippian Flute is 1/128 chance of instant kill, else nothing. (And you can escape the fight with the Chicken King equipped in any case.)

Unfortunately, however, the Earth Egg (but not the Water Egg) is part of the 260/260 (I thought that it wasn't, but apparently it is and I was mistaken). This really stinks because there's so much RNG in getting the slots to line up. If that weren't part of it, I probably would do 100%, at some point, but I really don't want to do 100,000 coins.

This is the full list: http://legaia.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Legend_of_Legaia_Treasure

Drifting Skies

2015-04-13 10:15:43 pm

steak Steak STEAK!!!

So, in other news, there were major breakthroughs to the speedrun route of this game, and now the WR has been taken from 11:25:03 down all the way to 9:52:16. That's right, sub-10 SS is a thing now!

(The other videos in the sequence are still being processed)

Solarplex

2015-04-13 11:51:51 pm

congrats on sub-10 ! taking a whole 90+ minutes off!

Hurbaz

2015-04-14 12:28:06 am

The time save is real. Nice work friend.

Rakuen

2015-04-14 05:44:37 pm

Weegee Time

Double-yew tea eff, mate! Knocking off a whole hour and a half is amazing. Keep it up!

Drifting Skies

Edit history:

Drifting Skies: 2015-04-16 02:41:15 pm

Drifting Skies: 2015-04-16 12:33:40 am

2015-04-15 07:20:29 pm

steak Steak STEAK!!!

Thanks. The big mistakes were buying a few too few Power Elixirs early, Koru, and Zora. In addition, I got some bad patterns on the last four bosses (Jette's clone wasted a lot of time, Cort 1 was a bit slow due to ESM use, Songi 2 killed Gala, and Cort 2 went a little Final Crisis-happy.)

I think the run can stand to be routed a bit more efficiently as well; I should have fought my leveling battles on Letona instead of the Ice Path (or on the way through Ratayu) and used Magic Leaves to restore Gala's MP, as needed. Drake Kingdom went exceptionally well (other than no God luck Viguro, but eh...), but I think my lack of practice with the second half of the run showed itself in a few places. I want to try to get a time closer to 9:35, which I think will be doable with a few more refinements to the run (notably, an extra couple of Power Elixirs on Jette, Cort 1, and Songi 3) and better practice with menuing and other optimization. I do think that an exceptional run with exceptional slots, good RNG, and good boss patterns can get just under 9:30 right now, so I want to keep pushing this game as far as it can go (just think; if Nivora skip is discovered, that pushes a nearly-perfect WR run close to the 9 hour mark now....)

There's also a interesting early-game optimization I want to test out which should save ~2 minutes, but I didn't want to test it in a WR run because it was still an experimental route change:
Instead of getting Meta right after running away from the first Gimard fight, I instead get the three healing leaves from the shopkeeper, then sell them back to her later and keep the Magic Leaf. I would get the Healing Leaf in Vahn's house (right after taking Mei there), so I could use that and the Magic Leaf to get Vahn back to full HP/MP before Caruban, which would allow me to save two battles in Drake Castle.

I think this would save on average about a minute and a half, and more in runs where I get bad escape RNG on Rikuroa (which seems to be pretty accurate). Will try this new route when I do Zeto% on Monday, since I'm going to try to make Zeto% Mondays a thing (so please watch/follow if you aren't doing so). There are some other little route optimizations I would like to try as well - get the Cure Amulet in West Voz so as not to sell the Power Elixir (and use that on Noa for Zeto)? Is a Power Elixir strategy helpful for Berserker? Is a Point Card strategy ideal for Berserker? (If so, I don't need Earth Jewels until Underground Octam.) Stuff like that still needs to be figured out.

EDIT: Meth962 posted some information about JuggerCort's AI script, which I will just copy-paste below:

Ok, got your answer. JuggyCort does the following in his AI to get to Doomsday:

1. if random 25% chance, do Ultra Charge.
2. if charged up from "Ultra Charge", do Final Crisis.
3. if last turn was Doomsday, skip (It does this an interesting way by making sure it can only be cast on odd number of turns so it can't do twice in a row.)
4. 50% chance to check for doomsday!
5. if mp > 255 (cast cost of Doomsday)
5. If hp < half of max (aka 32,767) cast Doomsday.

I guess that gives you a compounded chance of 18.75% to cast Doomsday per turn that he has half hp. But on odd turns, it's 37.5%. That's the short explanation then Smiley

In short, he has a 25% chance to Ultra Charge on any given turn, he always uses Final Crisis after charging, and he doesn't use Doomsday until he has fallen below 50% health. As such, it is not necessary for the current WR strategy to defend against Doomsday, because there is a 0% chance he will ever do so assuming we drop him in one round as the current strategy does.

This implies that there is no need to go to L27 with Noa, which would cut out ~4:15 in random battles; the party doesn't need to worry about surviving Doomsday since there is a 0% chance it will be used under the current strategies. This means that, counting the mistakes I made, there is at least 18-20 minutes of time saves still to exploit, and with better RNG, I think that 9:28:xx is doable.

Thanks.  The big mistakes were buying a few too few Power Elixirs early, Koru, and Zora.  In addition, I got some bad patterns on the last four bosses (Jette's clone wasted a lot of time, Cort 1 was a bit slow due to ESM use, Songi 2 killed Gala, and Cort 2 went a little Final Crisis-happy.)

I think the run can stand to be routed a bit more efficiently as well; I should have fought my leveling battles on Letona instead of the Ice Path (or on the way through Ratayu) and used Magic Leaves to restore Gala's MP, as needed.  Drake Kingdom went exceptionally well (other than no God luck Viguro, but eh...), but I think my lack of practice with the second half of the run showed itself in a few places.  I want to try to get a time closer to 9:35, which I think will be doable with a few more refinements to the run (notably, an extra couple of Power Elixirs on Jette, Cort 1, and Songi 3) and better practice with menuing and other optimization.  I do think that an exceptional run with exceptional slots, good RNG, and good boss patterns can get just under 9:30 right now, so I want to keep pushing this game as far as it can go (just think; if Nivora skip is discovered, that pushes a nearly-perfect WR run close to the 9 hour mark now....)

There's also a interesting early-game optimization I want to test out which should save ~2 minutes, but I didn't want to test it in a WR run because it was still an experimental route change:
 Instead of getting Meta right after running away from the first Gimard fight, I instead get the three healing leaves from the shopkeeper, then sell them back to her later and keep the Magic Leaf.  I would get the Healing Leaf in Vahn's house (right after taking Mei there), so I could use that and the Magic Leaf to get Vahn back to full HP/MP before Caruban, which would allow me to save two battles in Drake Castle.

I think this would save on average about a minute and a half, and more in runs where I get bad escape RNG on Rikuroa (which seems to be pretty accurate).  Will try this new route when I do Zeto% on Monday, since I'm going to try to make Zeto% Mondays a thing (so please watch/follow if you aren't doing so).  There are some other little route optimizations I would like to try as well - get the Cure Amulet in West Voz so as not to sell the Power Elixir (and use that on Noa for Zeto)?  Is a Power Elixir strategy helpful for Berserker?  Is a Point Card strategy ideal for Berserker?  (If so, I don't need Earth Jewels until Underground Octam.) Stuff like that still needs to be figured out.

EDIT: Meth962 posted some information about JuggerCort's AI script, which I will just copy-paste below:

Ok, got your answer. JuggyCort does the following in his AI to get to Doomsday:

1. if random 25% chance, do Ultra Charge.
2. if charged up from "Ultra Charge", do Final Crisis.
3. if last turn was Doomsday, skip (It does this an interesting way by making sure it can only be cast on odd number of turns so it can't do twice in a row.)
4. 50% chance to check for doomsday!
5. if mp > 255 (cast cost of Doomsday)
5. If hp < half of max (aka 32,767) cast Doomsday.

I guess that gives you a compounded chance of 18.75% to cast Doomsday per turn that he has half hp. But on odd turns, it's 37.5%. That's the short explanation then :)

In short, he has a 25% chance to Ultra Charge on any given turn, he always uses Final Crisis after charging, and he doesn't use Doomsday until he has fallen below 50% health.  As such, it is not necessary for the current WR strategy to defend against Doomsday, because there is a 0% chance he will ever do so assuming we drop him in one round as the current strategy does.

This implies that there is no need to go to L27 with Noa, which would cut out ~4:15 in random battles; the party doesn't need to worry about surviving Doomsday since there is a 0% chance it will be used under the current strategies.  This means that, counting the mistakes I made, there is at least 18-20 minutes of time saves still to exploit, and with better RNG, I think that 9:28:xx is doable.

Drifting Skies

2015-05-17 10:15:45 pm

steak Steak STEAK!!!

So, yeah, it's been a month since anyone has posted here, but...

So, when I said 9:28:xx... Yeah, turns out I had some more goodies in the bag o' tricks, and did this...

Have some more tricks planned, and I think that I will be able to get under 9 hours by the end of the year, if the RNG cooperates.

garik16

2015-05-18 04:43:26 am

Quote from Drifting Skies:

So, yeah, it's been a month since anyone has posted here, but...

So, when I said 9:28:xx... Yeah, turns out I had some more goodies in the bag o' tricks, and did this...

Have some more tricks planned, and I think that I will be able to get under 9 hours by the end of the year, if the RNG cooperates.

Holy Cow, that's amazing! Great job Drifting!

garik16

2015-06-05 07:13:48 pm

Still finishing the 9:18 run (yeah I know, I'm slow). Two questions:

1. I assume you're just using tempest break for noa because the 30 AP cost is low so there's rarely ever any chance of you not having enough AP. But there does seem to be some times when you can be sure you'll have enough AP (particularly when bosses are charging up attacks) - would it not be worth it to use super arts instead? (Dragon Fangs always seemed incredibly powerful to me). You'd lose some time in that the first time you used it you'd need to learn the normal arts, but the extra damage should add up, especially with elixers, no?

2. In a similar fashion - you use some of your remaining coins on a vitality ring in sol to sell when you're maxed out on soru bread - but you never really need to sell the ring for points till usha. Would you perhaps not gain more damage equipping it on Noa instead of the power ring, allowing you at least one other attack per turn - the turn you fury boost you'll probably have 6 attacks to do tempest break instead of rushing gale, and then you may have 9 command slots upon the fury boost , no? This would help basically on gaza 1 and 2, and maybe save a turn?

Could be wrong, I've done no testing on this. Thoughts?

Still finishing the 9:18 run (yeah I know, I'm slow).  Two questions:

1.  I assume you're just using tempest break for noa because the 30 AP cost is low so there's rarely ever any chance of you not having enough AP.  But there does seem to be some times when you can be sure you'll have enough AP (particularly when bosses are charging up attacks) - would it not be worth it to use super arts instead? (Dragon Fangs always seemed incredibly powerful to me).  You'd lose some time in that the first time you used it you'd need to learn the normal arts, but the extra damage should add up, especially with elixers, no?

2.  In a similar fashion - you use some of your remaining coins on a vitality ring in sol to sell when you're maxed out on soru bread - but you never really need to sell the ring for points till usha.  Would you perhaps not gain more damage equipping it on Noa instead of the power ring, allowing you at least one other attack per turn - the turn you fury boost you'll probably have 6 attacks to do tempest break instead of rushing gale, and then you may have 9 command slots upon the fury boost , no?  This would help basically on gaza 1 and 2, and maybe save a turn?

Could be wrong, I've done no testing on this.  Thoughts?

Drifting Skies

2015-06-06 09:47:30 am

steak Steak STEAK!!!

1) Tempest Break is 36 AP (:P). It's really saving animation frames/seconds by using super arts, as well as saving time with having to constantly change input commands. In addition, if I use Super Arts and burn 60 AP for Dragon Fangs or Super Tempest, that means I have less AP, which can be relevant since I can get off 3 Tempest Breaks from full AP in a row, but only Dragon Fangs + Tempest Break (and a few AP left over).

2) It wouldn't be any faster. On the Gaza fights, 8 Elixirs means I'd be doing ~4200 to them with the Power Elixir. 7 Elixirs is only around 3k, and it would be the same to do 8 elixirs without the Power Ring. A longer arts sequence would maybe do 4.5k, but longer animation frames, more risk of running out of AP, and it doesn't change the Gaza 1 or 2 fights from 3 or 4 attacks, respectively.

Drifting Skies

2015-06-14 07:47:18 pm

steak Steak STEAK!!!

I think I finally have a time I'm happy with. I think I'm done with this run for a few months, unfortunately. May stream it for special occasions (follower specials, etc.) and I'll definitely come back to the run if/when a new route / glitches are discovered, but...

Legaia in 8:44:19:

RPGsPlease123

2015-06-15 10:11:40 pm

hey man, just wanted to say congrats! hopefully I can get looking for glitches soon for you! I'll be sure to watch this whole run soon. Please post when doing future runs, you are such a tactician about gaming and I really enjoy watching this game.

-RPGSpeedRunFan1234