Left 4 Dead

InsipidMuckyWater

Edit history:

InsipidMuckyWater: 2009-07-09 02:12:34 am

2009-07-09 12:39:10 am

Visit my profile to see my runs!

Quote from Kahless_GOA:

but if you wanna do a 4 Player Speedrun on console, you have to record every screen of every player.

Correct me if I'm wrong, staff, but I don't think this is the case.

Valican

2009-07-09 07:19:18 am

I r run gudder!

Quote from InsipidMuckyWater:

Quote from Kahless_GOA:

but if you wanna do a 4 Player Speedrun on console, you have to record every screen of every player.

Correct me if I'm wrong, staff, but I don't think this is the case.

You would have to record every player's POV for a multi-player run to ensure that nobody uses a glitch/hack that would invalidate the run for everyone else. Example, someone could be using an auto-aim hack that would be really hard to spot if you didnt record his POV. It would just look like people had amazing aim for the entire run, but it would be considered cheating and the run would be disqualified.

InsipidMuckyWater

2009-07-09 08:43:33 pm

Visit my profile to see my runs!

While I know that is possible, I never thought SDA demanded video authentication from each runner. Perhaps I'm wrong though.

Lag.Com

2009-09-13 07:17:01 am

sda loyalist

I am totally up for this.

PC runners can just record a demo file from the console them capture it later, right? Console runners will have to capture as normal.

your_name_here

2009-09-13 12:25:35 pm

Quote from Spider-Waffle:

Do you guys think someone(s) could write some type of steam hack that would let you play online amongst other people with the hack without needing updates? I know people wrote their own battlenet which can do similar.

You could probably start steam in offline mode and play via LAN.

Inexistence

2009-09-13 02:40:03 pm

Yes, Inexistence is a word.

Yeah, and if you wanted that, you could use Hamachi to run a server that the game will think is a LAN? I remember I did that for Synergy once, not really sure how it worked Tongue

Lag.Com

2009-09-17 12:55:04 am

sda loyalist

Okay, so Shadow~Wraith, BoltR and Normand and I are going to do a run, on the latest version. Stay tuned.

Edit: is that better?

ShadowWraith

Edit history:

ShadowWraith: 2009-09-17 11:15:37 am

2009-09-17 01:56:59 am

.

Please don't put a hyphen in my name. People might get me confused with a certain other SW initialled poster. Sad

Yeah sure, Lag|Com.

DemonStrate

2009-09-17 06:48:17 am

If we were you, we would quit now.

I've decided that the most logical way to run the game is to do it 2 player, either 1 person controlling 2 people or each person controlling a player. I realized 2 should be the minimum because you can save each other if someone gets pulled (because you can deny pounces, but being pulled by a smoker is retarded). Also, there are glitches like multi-lifting that require 2 people to perform.

I am going to put up routes for a 2 player run of the game on my YouTube sometime soon. This would be for the Release version of the game. I haven't checked to see if multi-lifting works in the Release version, but it should... I would also be using shortcuts that were not removed in more recent versions. The turret glitch will be used. The 2 unused bot players will be left in, and I'll deal with them in whatever the most logical way for the level (kill them, let them die on their own, etc).

Additionally, I was going to test to see if you save before the next level loads, that it would load with different items and enemies (meaning tank or witch is spawned). Also, if you save at the start of that level, if it would have the same items and enemies when you loaded (meaning it doesn't change if you load). Then, you would make it so that Tier 2 weapons are always gained at the first possible place for each 2nd map of each campaign, so they are kept throughout the rest of the campaign.

The 2 player aspect is handled by the game, as I would be playing it splitscreen. I've only found a way to change input between each player (using in_forceuser 0,1) but I haven't checked if there is a way to control 2 players with the same controls. Most of the time, you would only need 1 player to complete the level, but its better to have 2 for certain glitches or shortcuts.

Here is a little outline of my plan (these routes work as far as I know):

NM1: Muli-lift 1 player on top of the upper part of the building. He jumps across the rooftops to the end, while the other player kills the bots and kills himself.
NM2: Make Tier 2 weapons spawn in the lower lobby area (using luck). Skip door event using either multilifting or turret glitch jump. Run to end.
NM3: Skip scissor ladder event by breaking the door by meleeing. Run to end.
NM4: I don't know of any shortcuts here, but I could test to see if there is a multi-lift shortcut between the floors of the building. Otherwise, just run to end.
NM5: Run on the left side of inside of the elevators instead of crouching in duct hole on right. Activate finale and go to the 'jesus spot' down beside the air ducts. End of campaign.

BH1: Run to end, nothing special.
BH2: Cause Tier 2 weapons to spawn in rooms before warehouse (using luck). Intentionally active event and run to the end of the level.
BH3: Jump up the side of the cliff when you first exit outside. I don't know of a way to skip the event, but just run to end of level.
BH4: Surf down cliffside. Jump over the corner of the traincar on the left side. Run to end.
BH5: Try to find a better 'jesus spot' than the one in the hay mounds overhang. Otherwise, just complete finale like normal. End of campaign.

DA1: Jump across rafters or on tables to avoid zombies. Jump on air conditioner near ladder from the window instead of using the ladder. Run to end.
DA2: Cause Tier 2 weapons to spawn in bedroom (using luck). Skip event using that one jump where you jump on a piece of a pipe. Skip the offices by jumping into tree on street ground and then onto semi. Run to end.
DA3: Use 'jesus spot' I recently discovered to avoid zombies during event. Jump on plane wing piece around the outside of the garages. Run to end.
DA4: Not any shortcuts I know of. Trigger event and run to end.
DA5: Trigger event and use turret glitch to jump up to high passenger walkway as a 'jesus spot'. End of campaign.

DT1: Jump across broken bridge. Run to end.
DT2: Cause Tier 2 weapons to spawn in the tall open sewer room (using luck). Use zombie's head or move box using pipebomb to skip event. Run to end.
DT3: Jump up onto of traincar via piece of traincar with the yellow handwheel on it. Run to end and trigger event. Sit on picture frame in the back right of the room.
DT4: Jump up the wall at the start and jump over to the next street. Skip even by jumping up the left side of the barricade. Run to end.
DT5: Run to finale. Use 'jesus rock' as a 'jesus spot'. End of Campaign.

I haven't decided what difficulty I would do this on yet, but I need to do route testing before deciding that. I think these routes look pretty solid, but please inform me of any other shortcuts you can think of. Thanks.

I've decided that the most logical way to run the game is to do it 2 player, either 1 person controlling 2 people or each person controlling a player. I realized 2 should be the minimum because you can save each other if someone gets pulled (because you can deny pounces, but being pulled by a smoker is retarded). Also, there are glitches like multi-lifting that require 2 people to perform.

I am going to put up routes for a 2 player run of the game on my YouTube sometime soon. This would be for the Release version of the game. I haven't checked to see if multi-lifting works in the Release version, but it should... I would also be using shortcuts that were not removed in more recent versions. The turret glitch will be used. The 2 unused bot players will be left in, and I'll deal with them in whatever the most logical way for the level (kill them, let them die on their own, etc).

Additionally, I was going to test to see if you save before the next level loads, that it would load with different items and enemies (meaning tank or witch is spawned). Also, if you save at the start of that level, if it would have the same items and enemies when you loaded (meaning it doesn't change if you load). Then, you would make it so that Tier 2 weapons are always gained at the first possible place for each 2nd map of each campaign, so they are kept throughout the rest of the campaign.

The 2 player aspect is handled by the game, as I would be playing it splitscreen. I've only found a way to change input between each player (using in_forceuser 0,1) but I haven't checked if there is a way to control 2 players with the same controls. Most of the time, you would only need 1 player to complete the level, but its better to have 2 for certain glitches or shortcuts.

Here is a little outline of my plan (these routes work as far as I know):

NM1: Muli-lift 1 player on top of the upper part of the building. He jumps across the rooftops to the end, while the other player kills the bots and kills himself.
NM2: Make Tier 2 weapons spawn in the lower lobby area (using luck). Skip door event using either multilifting or turret glitch jump. Run to end.
NM3: Skip scissor ladder event by breaking the door by meleeing. Run to end.
NM4: I don't know of any shortcuts here, but I could test to see if there is a multi-lift shortcut between the floors of the building. Otherwise, just run to end.
NM5: Run on the left side of inside of the elevators instead of crouching in duct hole on right. Activate finale and go to the 'jesus spot' down beside the air ducts. End of campaign.

BH1: Run to end, nothing special. 
BH2: Cause Tier 2 weapons to spawn in rooms before warehouse (using luck). Intentionally active event and run to the end of the level.
BH3: Jump up the side of the cliff when you first exit outside.  I don't know of a way to skip the event, but just run to end of level.
BH4: Surf down cliffside. Jump over the corner of the traincar on the left side. Run to end.
BH5: Try to find a better 'jesus spot' than the one in the hay mounds overhang. Otherwise, just complete finale like normal. End of campaign.

DA1: Jump across rafters or on tables to avoid zombies. Jump on air conditioner near ladder from the window instead of using the ladder. Run to end.
DA2: Cause Tier 2 weapons to spawn in bedroom (using luck). Skip event using that one jump where you jump on a piece of a pipe. Skip the offices by jumping into tree on street ground and then onto semi. Run to end.
DA3: Use 'jesus spot' I recently discovered to avoid zombies during event. Jump on plane wing piece around the outside of the garages. Run to end.
DA4: Not any shortcuts I know of. Trigger event and run to end.
DA5: Trigger event and use turret glitch to jump up to high passenger walkway as a 'jesus spot'. End of campaign.

DT1: Jump across broken bridge. Run to end.
DT2: Cause Tier 2 weapons to spawn in the tall open sewer room (using luck). Use zombie's head or move box using pipebomb to skip event. Run to end.
DT3: Jump up onto of traincar via piece of traincar with the yellow handwheel on it. Run to end and trigger event. Sit on picture frame in the back right of the room.
DT4: Jump up the wall at the start and jump over to the next street. Skip even by jumping up the left side of the barricade. Run to end.
DT5: Run to finale. Use 'jesus rock' as a 'jesus spot'. End of Campaign.

I haven't decided what difficulty I would do this on yet, but I need to do route testing before deciding that. I think these routes look pretty solid, but please inform me of any other shortcuts you can think of. Thanks.

Normand Nubcake

2009-09-17 08:27:58 am

Lag : Are you sure you wanna do this on the latest version of the game? I personally don't have a problem with it but if that's the case, I don't think the resulting runs would be accepted on SDA. Our times wouldn't even come close to those of the 1P runs that were submitted here recently and without the initial sequence breaks and speed tricks, a speedrun of the game is just a lot less entertaining to watch (and perform). It would probably be treated like the US Player's Choice edition of Metroid Prime

Demonstrate :
NM1: Have you actually done some testing to see if the rooftops route is faster than just jumping on the pipes and doing the rest normally?
NM2: You can boost yourself with the switch instead of the turret or multi-lifting.
NM3: If a tank spawns in the first open area (with the gas station), you can make him break the door. You should also manipulate luck so that the sewer cover is already removed when you get in the room that's right over the sewer.

DA2: No need to jump on the semi, you can fall directly to the ground.
DA3: Don't know why you'd need a "jesus spot" here. You can just skip the panic event and the common infected shouldn't get in your way so much.

DT2: Moving the box is faster (definitely harder though)
DT3: This is one of the panic events you can trigger right at the beginning of the level using a specific voice command

Finales : If you're doing those on Easy and have 3 or 4 players (don't know about two) it's actually faster to cover the common's spawns and kill them normally instead of waiting for them to disappear. Same for the Tanks

General : You can just kick the bots instead of killing them. You don't absolutely need to get tier 2 weapons in any of the levels, especially if it makes you lose some time

Good luck

Lag : Are you sure you wanna do this on the latest version of the game? I personally don't have a problem with it but if that's the case, I don't think the resulting runs would be accepted on SDA. Our times wouldn't even come close to those of the 1P runs that were submitted here recently and without the initial sequence breaks and speed tricks, a speedrun of the game is just a lot less entertaining to watch (and perform). It would probably be treated like the US Player's Choice edition of Metroid Prime

Demonstrate : 
NM1: Have you actually done some testing to see if the rooftops route is faster than just jumping on the pipes and doing the rest normally?
NM2: You can boost yourself with the switch instead of the turret or multi-lifting.
NM3: If a tank spawns in the first open area (with the gas station), you can make him break the door. You should also manipulate luck so that the sewer cover is already removed when you get in the room that's right over the sewer.

DA2: No need to jump on the semi, you can fall directly to the ground.
DA3: Don't know why you'd need a "jesus spot" here. You can just skip the panic event and the common infected shouldn't get in your way so much.

DT2: Moving the box is faster (definitely harder though)
DT3: This is one of the panic events you can trigger right at the beginning of the level using a specific [url=http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=575325]voice command[/url]

Finales : If you're doing those on Easy and have 3 or 4 players (don't know about two) it's actually faster to cover the common's spawns and kill them normally instead of waiting for them to disappear. Same for the Tanks

General : You can just kick the bots instead of killing them. You don't absolutely need to get tier 2 weapons in any of the levels, especially if it makes you lose some time

Good luck

DemonStrate

2009-09-17 09:00:41 am

If we were you, we would quit now.

Quote from Spider-Waffle:

Do you guys think someone(s) could write some type of steam hack that would let you play online amongst other people with the hack without needing updates? I know people wrote their own battlenet which can do similar.

Use hamachi? Just make a steamless game using the Release version and hamachi it with other people.

DemonStrate

2009-09-17 09:08:45 am

If we were you, we would quit now.

Quote from Normand Nubcake:

NM2: You can boost yourself with the switch instead of the turret or multi-lifting.

DA3: Don't know why you'd need a "jesus spot" here. You can just skip the panic event and the common infected shouldn't get in your way so much.

DT3: This is one of the panic events you can trigger right at the beginning of the level using a specific voice command

NM2: The switch can boost you? I've never seen that one before... Video or demo?

DA3: How do you skip the panic event there? Is there a way to jump over the barricade?

DT3: Which command? I never heard of that either. Lol.

Thanks.

Normand Nubcake

2009-09-17 09:37:49 am

Quote from DemonStrate:

NM2: The switch can boost you? I've never seen that one before... Video or demo?

DA3: How do you skip the panic event there? Is there a way to jump over the barricade?

DT3: Which command? I never heard of that either. Lol.

Thanks.

NM2: Just get on top of it and hit it ~20 times. If you hit it at the right angle, you can do it with 18 hits, maybe less (don't forget to use the melee spam glitch)

DA3: It's pretty easy to do quickly, no need to align yourself like he does

DT3: Well, if you're Francis for instance, "vocalize ConceptBlock009" works. You should probably choose the shortest line that triggers this event. See the link I posted. I'm pretty sure you could find a way to trigger any panic event that is activated by a certain dialogue early. You'd have to test every single concept block voice command for every character though

DemonStrate

2009-09-17 09:58:45 am

If we were you, we would quit now.

Quote from Normand Nubcake:

Quote from DemonStrate:

NM2: The switch can boost you? I've never seen that one before... Video or demo?

DA3: How do you skip the panic event there? Is there a way to jump over the barricade?

DT3: Which command? I never heard of that either. Lol.

Thanks.

NM2: Just get on top of it and hit it ~20 times. If you hit it at the right angle, you can do it with 18 hits, maybe less (don't forget to use the melee spam glitch)

DA3: It's pretty easy to do quickly, no need to align yourself like he does

DT3: Well, if you're Francis for instance, "vocalize ConceptBlock009" works. You should probably choose the shortest line that triggers this event. See the link I posted. I'm pretty sure you could find a way to trigger any panic event that is activated by a certain dialogue early. You'd have to test every single concept block voice command for every character though

NM2: Ah, I didn't know the switch was an object similar to the turret (thats melee-spam-able).

DA3: Oh yeah. Lol. I forgot since I haven't done it in such a long time. I used to do that jump, too.

DT3: Interesting. I'll make sure to test it out the different vocalizes when I get the chance.

Also, where can I find the 1P run submissions? I would really be interested in seeing what that person did in terms of routes.

[quote="Normand Nubcake"]
[quote="DemonStrate"]
NM2: The switch can boost you? I've never seen that one before... Video or demo?

DA3: How do you skip the panic event there? Is there a way to jump over the barricade?

DT3: Which command? I never heard of that either. Lol.

Thanks.

[/quote]
NM2: Just get on top of it and hit it ~20 times. If you hit it at the right angle, you can do it with 18 hits, maybe less (don't forget to use the melee spam glitch)

DA3: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f9v_adLfMg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f9v_adLfMg[/url] It's pretty easy to do quickly, no need to align yourself like he does

DT3: Well, if you're Francis for instance, "vocalize ConceptBlock009" works. You should probably choose the shortest line that triggers this event. See the link I posted. I'm pretty sure you could find a way to trigger any panic event that is activated by a certain dialogue early. You'd have to test every single concept block voice command for every character though
[/quote]

NM2: Ah, I didn't know the switch was an object similar to the turret (thats melee-spam-able).

DA3: Oh yeah. Lol. I forgot since I haven't done it in such a long time. I used to do that jump, too.

DT3: Interesting. I'll make sure to test it out the different vocalizes when I get the chance.

Also, where can I find the 1P run submissions? I would really be interested in seeing what that person did in terms of routes.

cortez

2009-09-17 11:01:05 am

Stalker!

Quote from DemonStrate:

Also, where can I find the 1P run submissions? I would really be interested in seeing what that person did in terms of routes.

me too

Normand Nubcake

2009-09-17 11:17:48 am

They've been verified about 2 weeks ago. Just keep checking the front page regularly

Lag.Com

2009-09-17 01:17:23 pm

sda loyalist

Quote from Normand Nubcake:

Are you sure you wanna do this on the latest version of the game?

Yeah I am. I know about that clause in the rules, but I'm not going to buy the game again/download another version of it (something that is usually illegal) just for a speedrun. It's not like there aren't any shortcuts in the latest version, there's just less stupid bugs like that smacking a gun thing.

Normand Nubcake

2009-09-17 02:33:35 pm

There are still a few shortcuts like jumping out of a window and... some minor speed tricks. But pretty much all the sequence breaks that made the game interesting to speedrun (as opposed to running to the end of the level and hoping you get lucky with the infected spawns) are gone. If we do a run of the most recent version and record it, it would be something for the forums and/or youtube, not SDA

Also, I don't see the issue with downloading the game if you already own it, but that's just me

DemonStrate

Edit history:

DemonStrate: 2009-09-17 03:24:02 pm

2009-09-17 03:02:07 pm

If we were you, we would quit now.

Quote from Normand Nubcake:

There are still a few shortcuts like jumping out of a window and... some minor speed tricks. But pretty much all the sequence breaks that made the game interesting to speedrun (as opposed to running to the end of the level and hoping you get lucky with the infected spawns) are gone. If we do a run of the most recent version and record it, it would be something for the forums and/or youtube, not SDA

Also, I don't see the issue with downloading the game if you already own it, but that's just me

There are sequence breaks by jumping off of commons' heads that could be done in the latest version. You need to get good at it though. I'm trying to find them for online play :-D. Related to jumping off of commons' heads, you can use them to get minor speed boosts.

Also, if you jump the second you touch the ground, you keep that speed. Spamming jump doesn't seem to keep the speed, because it needs to be as soon as you hit the ground. It is the same concept for Hunter bunny hopping (which you may or may not have seen). It is when you pounce as a hunter (which is faster than running) and hit jump just as you touch the ground. Here is a video:

So, all you need to do is find a way to increase your speed as a Survivor, and jump just as you touch the ground.

Edit: OMG, I just thought of the best thing. If you could find more places to use the turret glitch (like on other objects), and use the speed it gives you to bunny hop very quickly through the level. Hell yes.

Edit2: Here is a video of L4D Bunny hopping:

I know it works going down slopes, but I'm not sure about flat surfaces (despite what the video says). I'd need to check the velocity (cl_showpos 1) to see if it helps on a flat surface.

[quote="Normand Nubcake"]
There are still a few shortcuts like jumping out of a window and... some minor speed tricks. But pretty much all the sequence breaks that made the game interesting to speedrun (as opposed to running to the end of the level and hoping you get lucky with the infected spawns) are gone. If we do a run of the most recent version and record it, it would be something for the forums and/or youtube, not SDA

Also, I don't see the issue with downloading the game if you already own it, but that's just me
[/quote]

There are sequence breaks by jumping off of commons' heads that could be done in the latest version. You need to get good at it though. I'm trying to find them for online play :-D. Related to jumping off of commons' heads, you can use them to get minor speed boosts.

Also, if you jump the second you touch the ground, you keep that speed. Spamming jump doesn't seem to keep the speed, because it needs to be as soon as you hit the ground. It is the same concept for Hunter bunny hopping (which you may or may not have seen). It is when you pounce as a hunter (which is faster than running) and hit jump just as you touch the ground. Here is a video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xnx67nXywk
So, all you need to do is find a way to increase your speed as a Survivor, and jump just as you touch the ground.

Edit: OMG, I just thought of the best thing. If you could find more places to use the turret glitch (like on other objects), and use the speed it gives you to bunny hop very quickly through the level. Hell yes.

Edit2: Here is a video of L4D Bunny hopping:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWc9Gpm2Uuo
I know it works going down slopes, but I'm not sure about flat surfaces (despite what the video says). I'd need to check the velocity (cl_showpos 1) to see if it helps on a flat surface.

Lag.Com

2009-09-18 02:48:14 am

sda loyalist

Quote from Normand Nubcake:

it would be something for the forums and/or youtube, not SDA

I know about the 'fatest version' clause in the rules, but sometimes that isn't even possible! Say if you wanted to record a multiplayer Left 4 Dead speedrun on original console version. You'd have to connect to Xbox Live to do it, which would then update your game.

Besides, this is a speedrun. Hopefully eventually a very optimised one. Therefore it belongs on SDA.

Normand Nubcake

2009-09-18 08:07:15 am

Quote from lag:

I know about the 'fatest version' clause in the rules, but sometimes that isn't even possible! Say if you wanted to record a multiplayer Left 4 Dead speedrun on original console version. You'd have to connect to Xbox Live to do it, which would then update your game.

The thing here is that not only is it possible, it's very easy to set up and would yield a much better result. But if you really want to stick to this idea, you should talk to Mike about an eventual "No Major Skips" category or something similar. It certainly won't get on SDA if it's not labeled differently from the current records (beside the number of players doing the run)

DemonStrate

2009-09-18 08:43:11 pm

If we were you, we would quit now.

I completely forgot about power shotting which would exist in the Release version of the game. It should be really easy to play through the game on any difficulty with power shotting.

Lazylen

2009-09-19 12:01:31 am

fuck you i wont do what you tell me

Edit: nvm, disregard that. I just read through the last couple of pages.

Pootrain

2009-09-30 04:01:36 pm

train kept rollin

Dont know if this is happening on the pc version but on the 360 at the moment in the new crash course campaign you can run through a load of things like shipping containers and vans. Also the big barrier which completly bypasses the 1st cresendo event. Some one should run it before its to late.

cortez

2009-10-01 02:11:10 pm

Stalker!

tomorrow i will give it some tries (too much free time Tongue

)

can someone explain me the skips because i didnt found any ? Sad