Left 4 Dead

adzicents

2009-01-24 02:20:35 am

King Laskdjf

Why are they talking about that in this thread :/

Enhasa

2009-01-24 02:36:14 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote from Lazylen:

the player's choice version has always been banned from speedruns since it was discovered how much better NTSC and PAL were. also, it would create a whole new bunch of categories, and it's not like it's hard to get your hands on a NTSC version of prime.

if PC were to be allowed, we would have to include the "weird Korean version", along with the "wtf Kmart version".

Also the player's choice Metroid Prime isn't banned anymore because that is pretty arbitrary and un-SDA-like. But it's not going to make a difference anyway because nobody is going to submit a run on that version anyway. There is no sign in the desert that says "don't eat the stones." Tongue

nate

2009-01-24 11:09:25 am

if someone submitted one though ... it would very likely be rejected because it would be competing with some pretty optimized stuff. especially since zoid is so busy nowadays i don't think anyone exists who is willing to put in the time required to get a good run on player's choice. which is how it should be imo.

Lazylen

2009-01-25 01:45:59 am

fuck you i wont do what you tell me

Quote from adzicents:

Why are they talking about that in this thread :/

Quote from Quanta:

Quote from djcj:

Quote from Quanta:

Quote from TheVoid:

From the FAQ:

"If a game has been patched and there are multiple versions, it is recommended to use whichever version makes for the fastest run."

You're not given that choice with games on Steam.

That OoB SS run of Portal was done on an older version as well, because I think someone mentioned that on Steam they "fixed" Portal so you can't move any longer when being OoB. You can usually get Steam games with offline cracks on some illegal filesharing websites.

I see. That's kind of lame, actually. I've always thought that one of the goals of speed runs was to suggest that, no matter how the developers try to fix things, players will discover new ways to break their games. The Metroid Prime games are probably the best example; they fixed a lot of things between the NA and EU/Player's Choice releases, and people were still able to break the game.

You could argue that the same philosophy applies here, except that you're not actually breaking anything; you're taking what was already broken and using that, rather than breaking the fixed product.

I was making the case that they eventually DID get it right, but did it by putting a wall in front of the snake, not chopping off it's head.

In the current state of the game, I don't see a run being done that can beat a fresh copy of L4D. There's simply no way. All of the skips make the game so much faster.

[quote="adzicents"]
Why are they talking about that in this thread :/
[/quote]

[quote="Quanta"]
[quote="djcj"]
[quote="Quanta"]
[quote="TheVoid"]
From the FAQ:

"If a game has been patched and there are multiple versions, it is recommended to use whichever version makes for the fastest run."
[/quote]

You're not given that choice with games on Steam.
[/quote]
That OoB SS run of Portal was done on an older version as well, because I think someone mentioned that on Steam they "fixed" Portal so you can't move any longer when being OoB. You can usually get Steam games with offline cracks on some illegal filesharing websites.
[/quote]

I see. That's kind of lame, actually. I've always thought that one of the goals of speed runs was to suggest that, no matter how the developers try to fix things, players will discover new ways to break their games. [i]The Metroid Prime games are probably the best example; they fixed a lot of things between the NA and EU/Player's Choice releases, and people were still able to break the game.[/i]

You could argue that the same philosophy applies here, except that you're not actually breaking anything; you're taking what was already broken and using that, rather than breaking the fixed product.
[/quote]

I was making the case that they eventually DID get it right, but did it by putting a wall in front of the snake, not chopping off it's head.

In the current state of the game, I don't see a run being done that can beat a fresh copy of L4D.  There's simply no way.  All of the skips make the game so much faster.

DemonStrate

2009-01-25 08:40:33 am

If we were you, we would quit now.

Quote from Lazylen:

Quote from adzicents:

Why are they talking about that in this thread :/

Quote from Quanta:

Quote from djcj:

Quote from Quanta:

Quote from TheVoid:

From the FAQ:

"If a game has been patched and there are multiple versions, it is recommended to use whichever version makes for the fastest run."

You're not given that choice with games on Steam.

That OoB SS run of Portal was done on an older version as well, because I think someone mentioned that on Steam they "fixed" Portal so you can't move any longer when being OoB. You can usually get Steam games with offline cracks on some illegal filesharing websites.

I see. That's kind of lame, actually. I've always thought that one of the goals of speed runs was to suggest that, no matter how the developers try to fix things, players will discover new ways to break their games. The Metroid Prime games are probably the best example; they fixed a lot of things between the NA and EU/Player's Choice releases, and people were still able to break the game.

You could argue that the same philosophy applies here, except that you're not actually breaking anything; you're taking what was already broken and using that, rather than breaking the fixed product.

I was making the case that they eventually DID get it right, but did it by putting a wall in front of the snake, not chopping off it's head.

In the current state of the game, I don't see a run being done that can beat a fresh copy of L4D. There's simply no way. All of the skips make the game so much faster.

Just to remind people what the center of this quoteball says,

Quote:

From the FAQ:

"If a game has been patched and there are multiple versions, it is recommended to use whichever version makes for the fastest run."

making it blatently obvious you'd use the initial version of the game.

[quote="Lazylen"]
[quote="adzicents"]
Why are they talking about that in this thread :/
[/quote]

[quote="Quanta"]
[quote="djcj"]
[quote="Quanta"]
[quote="TheVoid"]
From the FAQ:

"If a game has been patched and there are multiple versions, it is recommended to use whichever version makes for the fastest run."
[/quote]

You're not given that choice with games on Steam.
[/quote]
That OoB SS run of Portal was done on an older version as well, because I think someone mentioned that on Steam they "fixed" Portal so you can't move any longer when being OoB. You can usually get Steam games with offline cracks on some illegal filesharing websites.
[/quote]

I see. That's kind of lame, actually. I've always thought that one of the goals of speed runs was to suggest that, no matter how the developers try to fix things, players will discover new ways to break their games. [i]The Metroid Prime games are probably the best example; they fixed a lot of things between the NA and EU/Player's Choice releases, and people were still able to break the game.[/i]

You could argue that the same philosophy applies here, except that you're not actually breaking anything; you're taking what was already broken and using that, rather than breaking the fixed product.
[/quote]

I was making the case that they eventually DID get it right, but did it by putting a wall in front of the snake, not chopping off it's head.

In the current state of the game, I don't see a run being done that can beat a fresh copy of L4D.  There's simply no way.  All of the skips make the game so much faster.
[/quote]

Just to remind people what the center of this quoteball says,

[quote]From the FAQ:

"If a game has been patched and there are multiple versions, it is recommended to use whichever version makes for the fastest run."[/quote]

making it blatently obvious you'd use the initial version of the game.

adzicents

2009-01-25 08:56:01 am

King Laskdjf

You guys can, but I'm leaving the one I've got as it is. It's too hard to get 4 people playing the initial version and Hamachi causes too much lag for it to be worth it.

Lazylen

2009-02-04 10:52:24 pm

fuck you i wont do what you tell me

hey, has anyone tried cancelling fall damage through helping someone up? if this were possible we could still skip large chunks of the game

Sid

2009-02-05 04:57:46 am

Now it's Sui^^

Quote from Lazylen:

hey, has anyone tried cancelling fall damage through helping someone up? if this were possible we could still skip large chunks of the game

you mean this?

Lazylen

2009-02-05 10:09:28 am

fuck you i wont do what you tell me

Quote from Sid:

Quote from Lazylen:

hey, has anyone tried cancelling fall damage through helping someone up? if this were possible we could still skip large chunks of the game

you mean this?

precisely that. Also, you take far less damage if you walk off of ledges quickly instead of jumping.

jp

2009-02-05 01:39:32 pm

What happens if say... you try to help someone up as you fall but there isn't anything for you to stand on? As if the person on the truck were near the edge and the person jumping would fall past the truck if they didn't help the other guy up. Do you hover in midair while helping?

Lazylen

2009-02-05 03:39:21 pm

fuck you i wont do what you tell me

Quote from jp:

What happens if say... you try to help someone up as you fall but there isn't anything for you to stand on? As if the person on the truck were near the edge and the person jumping would fall past the truck if they didn't help the other guy up. Do you hover in midair while helping?

I don't know, but the other day I healed someone as they were being choked by a smoker (I had started healing, then they were dragged). Once I had fully healed them, i meleed the smoker off and they had the regular health you have from a heal.

You can heal from a good 20 feet away if the person you're healing keeps moving.

Siyko

2009-02-06 08:49:21 am

I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.

Quote from Lazylen:

Quote from Sid:

Quote from Lazylen:

hey, has anyone tried cancelling fall damage through helping someone up? if this were possible we could still skip large chunks of the game

you mean this?

precisely that. Also, you take far less damage if you walk off of ledges quickly instead of jumping.

I don't understand this. He still takes heavy fall damage, helping him up saves nothing

Sid

2009-02-06 09:11:58 am

Now it's Sui^^

Quote from Siyko:

Quote from Lazylen:

Quote from Sid:

Quote from Lazylen:

hey, has anyone tried cancelling fall damage through helping someone up? if this were possible we could still skip large chunks of the game

you mean this?

precisely that. Also, you take far less damage if you walk off of ledges quickly instead of jumping.

I don't understand this. He still takes heavy fall damage, helping him up saves nothing

Because this doesn't exactly works Tongue

I mean, I think it can slow your fall and reduce some damage but it doesn't always works Undecided

Siyko

2009-02-06 10:03:02 am

I used to be athiest until I realized I was God.

Well, on the second attempt, zoey lands ON her friends, and you can see the physics squirming around looking for 'solid ground' to rest. I'm pretty sure this is why she survives, and it has nothing to do with helping them up.

Lazylen

2009-02-14 09:54:07 pm

fuck you i wont do what you tell me

There are voice commands that trigger events (Death Toll 3's "Churchguy"). When you use these voice commands, you can trigger the event from anywhere inside the level.

http://www.randomguild.com/node/352

I figure this should work with the radios as well, but I haven't been able to get them to work.

PossiblyLethal

Edit history:

PossiblyLethal: 2009-02-17 09:58:50 pm

2009-02-16 09:56:13 pm

Hi everyone I'm new here but I love speed runs and have been watching them for awhile now. Left 4 Dead is a game I like to play and will hopefully enter CAL matches when that comes around. I'm making a guide how to speed run Left 4 Dead and have started on No Mercy. So far I only have the first 3 parts of it. Please give feedback on these paths.

http://l4speed.pastebin.com/m78dc4647
(So the entire page is not filled with text)
The "Sub (time)" part is the time I think I can get under if done correctly. I hope to test these thoroughly soon.

Also what are the rules for Left 4 Dead speed running? Left 4 Dead saves how well you did one level then makes the next level harder, or if you fail a level it makes it easier. If your doing a segmented run how would you adjust for this? Remake the game after every map? Also when should the demo start? As soon as the level loads or the second you leave the door?

Lazylen

2009-02-18 12:44:20 am

fuck you i wont do what you tell me

Rules state that we must run the fastest version of the game.

This means that if someone is going to speedrun the game, they have to do it on an unpatched PC version in either singleplayer or splitscreen co-op, as going online requires you to patch the game (unless someone can make the game playable online without all the patches). There are major glitches that have been ironed out.

Really, a singleplayer speedrun to do this game justice would:
-Be on expert
-Level by level runs (randomly generating the best result of the game)
-Avoid tanks altogether, use teammates as bait (the end result of this would mean grabbing the auto rifle to slow the tank enough to escape).
-use voice command triggers (if allowed, which I don't see why they wouldn't be)
-use the minigun glitch (taken out in the first major patch)
-use the broken door & level skips (taken out in the first major patch)
-be generally solo, killing all hunters/smokers/horde by yourself.
-the abuse of "Jesus Rooms" for finales, areas at which the regular infected either cannot spawn, or cannot hurt you (on top of the plane, by the vent, on the rock, and... I don't know the Blood Harvest one. Someone here does though).

The problem with this game is that the 3 AI are forced upon you. This is both a curse and a blessing. On one hand, it provides you a ton of cover. On the other, they're moronic and slow. A good thing is that with proper manipulation, you can teleport them to you with ease. A bad thing being that they stall and ignore you. They absorb the infected well, but they can't act tactically.

So I'm guessing our debate here is whether or not the AI is to be killed at the beginning, having you run on your own, or if we would be forced to wait for the AI, escorting them through every level.

People have soloed Expert by themselves. It's not a difficult task, providing you know what you're doing. However, if you're caught, you're starting over, even if you're just sitting around and waiting for rescue (finales).

An ideal situation would be if we could get 4 people playing this game online with each other. However, I don't see a way of this being possible, outside of the (currently) virgin Xbox 360 version, where the game is unpatched, and glitches are very exploitable (at this point in time... the spring update will be within weeks now that the scout update is next week). This way, 3 people would draw fire and kill themselves upon round end, while the last person ran to the safe room (you can't even commit suicide by conventional means anymore).

Rules state that we must run the fastest version of the game.

This means that if someone is going to speedrun the game, they have to do it on an unpatched PC version in either singleplayer or splitscreen co-op, as going online requires you to patch the game (unless someone can make the game playable online without all the patches).  There are major glitches that have been ironed out.

Really, a singleplayer speedrun to do this game justice would:
-Be on expert
-Level by level runs (randomly generating the best result of the game)
-Avoid tanks altogether, use teammates as bait (the end result of this would mean grabbing the auto rifle to slow the tank enough to escape).
-use voice command triggers (if allowed, which I don't see why they wouldn't be)
-use the minigun glitch (taken out in the first major patch)
-use the broken door & level skips (taken out in the first major patch)
-be generally solo, killing all hunters/smokers/horde by yourself.
-the abuse of "Jesus Rooms" for finales, areas at which the regular infected either cannot spawn, or cannot hurt you (on top of the plane, by the vent, on the rock, and... I don't know the Blood Harvest one.  Someone here does though).

The problem with this game is that the 3 AI are forced upon you.  This is both a curse and a blessing.  On one hand, it provides you a ton of cover.  On the other, they're moronic and slow.  A good thing is that with proper manipulation, you can teleport them to you with ease.  A bad thing being that they stall and ignore you.  They absorb the infected well, but they can't act tactically.

So I'm guessing our debate here is whether or not the AI is to be killed at the beginning, having you run on your own, or if we would be forced to wait for the AI, escorting them through every level.

People have soloed Expert by themselves.  It's not a difficult task, providing you know what you're doing.  However, if you're caught, you're starting over, even if you're just sitting around and waiting for rescue (finales).

An ideal situation would be if we could get 4 people playing this game online with each other.  However, I don't see a way of this being possible, outside of the (currently) virgin Xbox 360 version, where the game is unpatched, and glitches are very exploitable (at this point in time... the spring update will be within weeks now that the scout update is next week).  This way, 3 people would draw fire and kill themselves upon round end, while the last person ran to the safe room (you can't even commit suicide by conventional means anymore).

DemonStrate

2009-02-18 06:58:05 am

If we were you, we would quit now.

I was highly considering making a speedrun of L4D after I am done my Portal OoB speedrun. I would use the original version of the game. I would use any glitches available (turret glitch, melee swapping, etc) extensively and bunny hopping. I also have concepts about shortcuts involving crowd surfing (jumping off the heads of the zombies). This probably won't happen for a few months though.

X

2009-02-18 07:07:14 am

destroy them with lazers

Someone showed me the other day on The Cranes - Dead Air that after you have done the crane shortcut by jumping over the fences you can then jump down into the street by landing in one of the trees. Its hard to do, but does cut out a larger portion of the level as you dont have to go all the way down the building.

DemonStrate

2009-02-18 07:11:10 am

If we were you, we would quit now.

Quote from X:

Someone showed me the other day on The Cranes - Dead Air that after you have done the crane shortcut by jumping over the fences you can then jump down into the street by landing in one of the trees. Its hard to do, but does cut out a larger portion of the level as you dont have to go all the way down the building.

Yeah, that was in one of my videos off of FileFront a few pages ago.

Lazylen

2009-02-18 09:41:17 am

fuck you i wont do what you tell me

Quote from X:

Someone showed me the other day on The Cranes - Dead Air that after you have done the crane shortcut by jumping over the fences you can then jump down into the street by landing in one of the trees. Its hard to do, but does cut out a larger portion of the level as you dont have to go all the way down the building.

i didn't think that that was still possible. They edited out a bunch of tricks, i thought that one had gone too. It's not a difficult trick if you know where to go.

you can't really jump on the heads of zombies very easily, and it won't really get you anywhere, because:
-regular zombies die when you stand on their heads
-you slip off of special infected, except the boomer

you CAN jump off of regular infected, but it requires more than one to be beneath you, I believe. Also, regular infected don't break a fall.

X

2009-02-18 12:22:11 pm

destroy them with lazers

I was talking about the 360 version. But its still in the PC version if your going to play it unpatched right?

DemonStrate

2009-02-18 01:46:41 pm

If we were you, we would quit now.

Quote from Lazylen:

Quote from X:

Someone showed me the other day on The Cranes - Dead Air that after you have done the crane shortcut by jumping over the fences you can then jump down into the street by landing in one of the trees. Its hard to do, but does cut out a larger portion of the level as you dont have to go all the way down the building.

i didn't think that that was still possible. They edited out a bunch of tricks, i thought that one had gone too. It's not a difficult trick if you know where to go.

you can't really jump on the heads of zombies very easily, and it won't really get you anywhere, because:
-regular zombies die when you stand on their heads
-you slip off of special infected, except the boomer

you CAN jump off of regular infected, but it requires more than one to be beneath you, I believe. Also, regular infected don't break a fall.

Already found a few shortcuts (that are plausible) by jumping off of regular infected's heads.

Lazylen

2009-02-18 03:06:32 pm

fuck you i wont do what you tell me

cool. how do you do it? just jamming space? I wasn't able to do any infected acrobatics near release, but maybe that's changed (one spot I could get to was above the subway entrance in NM1)

PossiblyLethal

Edit history:

PossiblyLethal: 2009-02-19 10:19:12 pm

2009-02-19 09:57:56 pm

Quote from Lazylen:

cool. how do you do it? just jamming space?

I used to think it was just jump+crouch but I tried that recently and it didn't work well. You just have to be on slightly higher ground I guess.