Dark Cloud 2 (PS2)

2014-08-23 07:26:49 pm

Well I just did a practice to Ch.4 and got a pretty bad 3:12. I need to work on my shopping mostly. I got okay luck, but nothing too great.

lxXGoatXxl

2014-08-23 09:19:36 pm

Sadly, I have some unfortunate news. I've done some extensive research today on finding a way to omit Steve from the game almost entirely by working on a single gun from the start. Much to my dismay, there is no way to viably replace Steve. There are no weapons early on that will allow you to level up, synthesize, then spectrumize in any combination to easily build up your weapon to its next level, which means that early on you would have to stop and collect ABS with a weapon not suited for combat, level it up many times, and somehow manage to scrape together either the money or resources to give it the stats it would need. Aside from that, the enemies that would give enough ABS to level up the weapon quickly are far superior to the weapon you would be building up into.

As of right now, I am classifying this case as 90% closed. Unless something comes up, or I find new information, it is unlikely to be an option.

HavokMoobii

2014-08-23 10:22:13 pm

Max%! I'll look into it.

So I did a run last night. It was terrible, but it was a full run. I got 8:02. The second half was pretty much casual relearning the game, so tons of time can come off. My stream seems to be pretty awful too. It broke the run up into 12 parts and a decent chunk of the run is missing. I know Linda got cut. Haven't gone through to see what else.

I'm pretty certain at this point that diagonal running is faster than the propeller leg. The steering for it is so wonky and I have no idea how to make it and the Jet Hover move at max speed. The Nova Cannon is horrible in Chapter 7. We really need to look at all the ridepod upgrades again and make sure we are using the best ones.

At the end of Chapter 7 I was like a whole floors worth of abs short on my weapons, so I need to work on that.

Tons of stuff to test and research. I'm going to split practicing the game into 3 parts. Chapters 1-3, 4-6, and 7. I'll also try to do full runs on Friday nights. I am also going to be working on a 100% file for testing. I might stream some of that.

Max%! I'll look into it.

So I did a run last night. It was terrible, but it was a full run. I got 8:02. The second half was pretty much casual relearning the game, so tons of time can come off. My stream seems to be pretty awful too. It broke the run up into 12 parts and a decent chunk of the run is missing. I know Linda got cut. Haven't gone through to see what else.

I'm pretty certain at this point that diagonal running is faster than the propeller leg. The steering for it is so wonky and I have no idea how to make it and the Jet Hover move at max speed. The Nova Cannon is horrible in Chapter 7. We really need to look at all the ridepod upgrades again and make sure we are using the best ones.

At the end of Chapter 7 I was like a whole floors worth of abs short on my weapons, so I need to work on that.

Tons of stuff to test and research. I'm going to split practicing the game into 3 parts. Chapters 1-3, 4-6, and 7. I'll also try to do full runs on Friday nights. I am also going to be working on a 100% file for testing. I might stream some of that.

lxXGoatXxl

2014-08-23 10:30:57 pm

As long as you don't do the 100% during Ch.8 it should be okay. You lose a lot when you go to Ch.8.

I don't know. All things considered I thought it went rather well. I agree about the separate practice points though. Do you remember what your time was for the very start of Ch.4? I need a good idea of where I need to be at in terms of time. And separate chapter practices will work out just fine. You should be about roughly the same in every run. At least it's consistent like that.

I was wondering about what would be better between the BC3 and NC, but we omitted the BC3 because F@CK the Finny Frenzy. I can't think of a better weapon for that point.

HavokMoobii

2014-08-23 10:51:44 pm

2:43:42.

NC is fast. you get one extra geostone and build 8 lights and thats it. I don't think it kills that much slower anyway. I'll test all the weapons eventually.

I dug up some old notes from when I was routing this game.

Supernova stuff.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvLN6DPKBog-dFE1RmNGZVNnWnNHR2RiMC1nQWp2VEE&usp=sharing
Steal Gun +2 1720 ABS

Heavy Hammer +5
27 Scraps
5 Cloth

Synth to Steal Gun

Soul Breaker x2 10560 ABS
19 Cloth Each

Synth to Steal Gun

Synth Moon Stone to Steal Gun

Supernova

You get the ABS for the hammer while leveling the guns

12,280 ABS Total

Georama
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ioti2IlcrHnOuHYbw2dl84vE5UAV9To3N5wLm9uUOrU/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Su24yc41xQ9H0-iBtvdbiZ1l1dZxtpdoGbnxZf4I87s/edit?usp=sharing

These are all pretty old, but meh.

lxXGoatXxl

2014-08-23 11:11:53 pm

I'm doing a quick level research to find out what levels will give you the most ABS and will take the least amount of time to clear. So far, floor 1 I feel should be completely cleared, and floor 5 too, and 9. After clearing those three floors you should have enough total ABS to meet your 12,280 quota and get yourself a little extra. Also, floors 1 and 5 have a Level Up powder for spheda. Which could omit the need for level 9 (Hell Elephant) to be completely cleared. That's the best I've come up with so far. The enemies in floors 1 and 5 are weak. The only problem is that there are 24 and 20 of them. Some with projectiles.

lxXGoatXxl

2014-08-23 11:24:59 pm

Okay yeah. Floors 1, 5, and 9 are the floors you'll want to clear for ABS. The three of those floors alone will net you 9948 ABS. In addition, you can obtain those 2 level up powders from spheda, or you can simply progress forward and kill some other enemies throughout the dungeon. Inevitably you will kill 3000 ABS worth of enemies throughout Ch.7.

Acefrog

2014-08-24 07:53:10 am

Not sure why you guys are struggling with abs fot the final upgrades. I manahed in my runs to get it with just gatekeepers o.0 maybe only jusyt a few extra.

As for NC and BC3 I found it to slow to just skip thr bc3 and I domt believe that theres any alternative. Same happens later on and thats why I worked in the LA3

lxXGoatXxl

2014-08-24 12:13:31 pm

Well to be honest I've never made it that far in a run. I'm still practicing my early game stuff, since I was about 20 minutes slower than Havok by the start of Ch.4. I did make a few mistakes here and there that cost a little bit of time, but not all that much. Anyway... Since I haven't actually done a run up to that point, I'm just trying to figure out a good gun route. In Havok's run he ended up falling way short by the end of MFP and had to replay a couple floors. With that in mind, we need to focus more on the ABS gain throughout the dungeon. I'll look further into it to figure out exact enemy counts to kill. Hopefully thinking 2-3 enemies per floor will suffice.

HavokMoobii

2014-08-25 01:56:35 am

So Borneo increases monster drops. Going to take him as 3rd party member in chapter 4.

Acefrog

2014-08-25 07:38:35 am

I would say thats very risky. Not sure hpw much drop increase is, nor do you have time to hang around looting the enemies. The main thing being chapter 4 monsters being some of the worst. You will get hit and maybe lose your ridepod. Dont wana waste that fuel!

Tetsero

2014-08-25 08:43:47 am

I hope this game keeps on going. But one thing you'll have to do is plan backup strategies. If you're in agdq you'll not be given the luxury of a reset an hour in just because you didn't get a chestnut.

If you are planning for WR then these are great. If you are planning for agdq then make sure everything that comes down to luck has an alternative route.

That's just my opinion though. I am currently running this game for fun. Only completed chapter 1 and some of chapter 2. :3 good luck everyone.

Acefrog

2014-08-25 09:15:52 am

Even in a marathon run there there isnt much which can kill the run other than game overs. Chestnuts can be farmed or you can even recruit polly.. both just take a bit more time.

lxXGoatXxl

2014-08-26 12:01:11 pm

Borneo only ensures that a monster will drop its georama element. That's all. Could be good for some things, but not very many.

HavokMoobii

Edit history:

HavokMoobii: 2014-08-26 02:53:46 pm

HavokMoobii: 2014-08-26 02:48:23 pm

2014-08-26 02:45:18 pm

"Boots Item Acquisition when you defeat a monster"
From my tests so far it seems to make a difference. I'm going to start taking him for the second half of chapter 2 and for chapter 4.

I streamed Dark Chronicle for a bit yesterday. Up to Maradin. The clown fight is the same.. I have no idea how I was consistently getting perfect fights. I can't even get a decent fight now. Block Canceling as Monica is super quick and makes the Soldiers a lot faster.

Tetsero: ~~Unfortunately there is no backup strat to the chestnut~~. You absolutely need Ferdinand to beat the game, and you need a chestnut to recruit him. ~~They only come from chests in Rainbow Butterfly Wood~~. There is a backup strat for recruiting Pau, but its probably faster to just grind with Borneo. You can catch a 60cm+ fish (does it have to be a Nonky?) to recruit Fabio and buy a carrot from him.

Edit: Apparently Mushroom Burgers sells Roasted Chestnuts... I swear I checked ages ago and they didn't. Well theres backup strats. If you don't have one when it's Georama time you can do the Polly sidequest. Would add like 2 minutes and ~~~1000 gilda to the run (totally off the top of my head).

Edit2: Wooden House 480 Gilda, Cart 120 Gilda, Chestnut 300 Gilda. I'm just going to continue to reset, but marathon strat.

I spent over an hour yesterday converting my notes into a sort of guide.... and accidentally deleted it all. It will come eventually.

"Boots Item Acquisition when you defeat a monster"
From my tests so far it seems to make a difference. I'm going to start taking him for the second half of chapter 2 and for chapter 4.

I streamed Dark Chronicle for a bit yesterday. Up to Maradin. The clown fight is the same.. I have no idea how I was consistently getting perfect fights. I can't even get a decent fight now. Block Canceling as Monica is super quick and makes the Soldiers a lot faster.

Tetsero: [s]Unfortunately there is no backup strat to the chestnut[/s]. You absolutely need Ferdinand to beat the game, and you need a chestnut to recruit him. [s]They only come from chests in Rainbow Butterfly Wood[/s]. There is a backup strat for recruiting Pau, but its probably faster to just grind with Borneo. You can catch a 60cm+ fish (does it have to be a Nonky?) to recruit Fabio and buy a carrot from him.

Edit: Apparently Mushroom Burgers sells Roasted Chestnuts... I swear I checked ages ago and they didn't. Well theres backup strats. If you don't have one when it's Georama time you can do the Polly sidequest. Would add like 2 minutes and ~~~1000 gilda to the run (totally off the top of my head).

Edit2: Wooden House 480 Gilda, Cart 120 Gilda, Chestnut 300 Gilda. I'm just going to continue to reset, but marathon strat.

I spent over an hour yesterday converting my notes into a sort of guide.... and accidentally deleted it all. It will come eventually.

lxXGoatXxl

2014-08-26 03:18:42 pm

In regards to marathon stats, there would be saves in order to not lose too much progress. There's also a backup start for every recruitment item you need so there's that. The game can be incredibly evil, so in a marathon you would want to play it a little safe.

That's weird about Borneo. I could have sworn he only ensured georama drops from enemies. That's what I remember. But if he increases all item drops then hell yeah you need to add him to the route! That would also help in getting a holy water from a skeleton instead of running to buy one. And maybe it could help getting some silver balls. Less money spent.

Acefrog

2014-08-27 11:45:33 pm

Just beat a derust run.. very mega bad run to be honest, but still got a new PB at 8:55 lol.

Too tired to go over it right now, but lots of ideas to improve the run. The whole run should be available on my twitch in segments, stream dropped out a few times.

rainbzer

2014-08-28 12:29:59 am

Nice! ill be checking it out tomorrow!

HavokMoobii

Edit history:

HavokMoobii: 2014-08-28 06:31:18 pm

2014-08-28 06:29:58 pm

Hey we both improved our times by about an hour. Lets just keep doing that until this game is reasonably short eh?

I watched a little bit, will go over it a bit more thoroughly later. I really like some of the route choices you made and am changing around mine.

I saw that you have Rosa in the route, but didn't use the Anti-Stop Amulets. Doing so would make Griffon a ton easier. I also really like the Laser arm and using the Final Bomb on Griffon.

Edit: I also figured out that for the Spheda tutorial you can just talk to Monica to give up.

I'm going to do a run in a bit. Shooting for sub 7. I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out how to get both my mic and game sound at the same time. Would be nice if I get a crowd.

Acefrog

2014-08-28 06:54:47 pm

The notes I have now are new ones adapted after that run.. Changed a few bits around and rosa is a new recruit but makes sense to get.

rainbzer

2014-08-28 06:58:38 pm

Havok: Hit me up on skype and I'll help tweak your steam so you can use mic.

HavokMoobii

Edit history:

HavokMoobii: 2014-08-28 07:34:01 pm

HavokMoobii: 2014-08-28 07:18:02 pm

HavokMoobii: 2014-08-28 07:12:52 pm

HavokMoobii: 2014-08-28 07:03:25 pm

2014-08-28 07:02:37 pm

Ace: Makes sense. Good stuff.

Rainbzer: Will do. Give me a bit.

Edit: Man you need a ton of exp for all those upgrades. That has me a little concerned.
Edit2: Maybe we should consider inventing stamina drinks for later bosses? To invent is Bottle, Chinese Lantern, and King Mardan. To make is 2 Tasty Water, 30 Super Hot Peppers, and 5 Mighty Healing.
Edit3: Your route gets the Geostone for 3-5. This Geostone unlocks the Wooden Fence, so it is unnecessary.

lxXGoatXxl

2014-08-28 09:00:42 pm

Sorry I've been out of the loop the past few days. Let me ask, since I haven't seen the new route updates yet. What is the purpose of Rosa? Just to buy amulets? If that's the case, I don't really think she's necessary, since you can just buy Heart Throbs from someone. And what about Final Bombs on Griffon? When I tried to use them on him they did a ridiculously low amount of damage compared to the Supernova. Or perhaps they're good on a certain phase?

Inventing Stamina Drinks seems like a small waste of time. I get what you mean by them being really helpful against bosses, but realistically how much money are you expecting to have by the end of the game to spend on the ingredients for it? And as for the Laser Arm, I agree that a powerful weapon is indeed a much better option than trying to work with the weak crap from three chapters earlier. XD

I'll have to watch one of you guys to really see what's going on, but those are the questions I have right now. If I can figure anything else out (going to be doing a thorough examination of everything either tonight or tomorrow) I'll be sure to let you guys know. Since I can't stream (damn laptop) all I can do is research for everyone and find out what I can. Best of luck. I'm still calling dibs for a couch seat at whatever GDQ this makes it to, since I'm unlikely to actually be a runner. XD You guys are just too good for me to beat without much more practice than I have time for. Considering my best time up to Ch.4 is like 3:30 or so, yeah... Good luck guys! Will post again when I find something of use!

Sorry I've been out of the loop the past few days. Let me ask, since I haven't seen the new route updates yet. What is the purpose of Rosa? Just to buy amulets? If that's the case, I don't really think she's necessary, since you can just buy Heart Throbs from someone. And what about Final Bombs on Griffon? When I tried to use them on him they did a ridiculously low amount of damage compared to the Supernova. Or perhaps they're good on a certain phase?

Inventing Stamina Drinks seems like a small waste of time. I get what you mean by them being really helpful against bosses, but realistically how much money are you expecting to have by the end of the game to spend on the ingredients for it? And as for the Laser Arm, I agree that a powerful weapon is indeed a much better option than trying to work with the weak crap from three chapters earlier. XD

I'll have to watch one of you guys to really see what's going on, but those are the questions I have right now. If I can figure anything else out (going to be doing a thorough examination of everything either tonight or tomorrow) I'll be sure to let you guys know. Since I can't stream (damn laptop) all I can do is research for everyone and find out what I can. Best of luck. I'm still calling dibs for a couch seat at whatever GDQ this makes it to, since I'm unlikely to actually be a runner. XD You guys are just too good for me to beat without much more practice than I have time for. Considering my best time up to Ch.4 is like 3:30 or so, yeah... Good luck guys! Will post again when I find something of use!

Acefrog

2014-08-28 09:54:14 pm

There is a lot of XP needed for upgrades, but by the time you need it for the 3.5/5k Upgrades your getting mass amounts from the mobs on the star levels.
Stamina drinks are pointless to craft, they do help a tiny bit at the end but not enough to go around spending money for them. Plus you should have some from drops through the game (If your lucky)
Geostone removed for 3-5.. no idea why I had that.

Rosa: To buy Stop amulets. I considered the other items, which you already had from recruiting but its a waste time having to go to the menu to use them or using them on hotbar which is risky. With Amulets you can just have them equipped and not worry about the stop on griffon. Will make the fight faster as well cause you dont need to dodge the attack, just block

Laser Arms III: I am still on the table about this weapon, yes it does good damage and helps on the last levels. But its slow, and can get messy with multiple enemies, not mentioning the misses. There still is a weapon gap for C5-6 which we need to find.. Nova is too slow, BC3 would be best but no one has figured out Finny frenzy timing yet.

There is a lot of XP needed for upgrades, but by the time you need it for the 3.5/5k Upgrades your getting mass amounts from the mobs on the star levels.
Stamina drinks are pointless to craft, they do help a tiny bit at the end but not enough to go around spending money for them. Plus you should have some from drops through the game (If your lucky)
Geostone removed for 3-5.. no idea why I had that.

Rosa: To buy Stop amulets. I considered the other items, which you already had from recruiting but its a waste time having to go to the menu to use them or using them on hotbar which is risky. With Amulets you can just have them equipped and not worry about the stop on griffon. Will make the fight faster as well cause you dont need to dodge the attack, just block

Laser Arms III: I am still on the table about this weapon, yes it does good damage and helps on the last levels. But its slow, and can get messy with multiple enemies, not mentioning the misses. There still is a weapon gap for C5-6 which we need to find.. Nova is too slow, BC3 would be best but no one has figured out Finny frenzy timing yet.

Tetsero

2014-08-30 07:34:12 pm

I feel the best thing to do about Finny Frenzy is to see if it's more than just time. Go for a 100% game without worrying about speed. Then when it does unlock take note of everything you've done so far. It might be more than time.