Dark Cloud 2 (PS2)

2014-08-20 12:07:56 am

Wait... Am I wrong about my exit? I could have sworn the sun took you toward the end... Or perhaps that's only chapter 8... Damn. I'm totally off lately. First the milk can and now this. I'm going to take a break and come back tomorrow when I'm not brain dead. Haha.

HavokMoobii

2014-08-20 12:23:32 am

Nope, both Moon exits in the story lead to the End. It looks like Sun exits lead to areas you should explore first. Im going to get in touch with Acefrog to see how far along he got and if he would be interested in helping out.

Thanks for the input tjp!

tjp7154

2014-08-20 11:13:57 am

#Casual

Hey, no problem! DC2 is one of those games I always wanted to run, but life of course .. happened .. and right now I can only stand on the sidelines and encourage you guys as you tackle this game. If you stream, I'll definitely be a follower...

lxXGoatXxl

2014-08-20 06:07:48 pm

If I remember right, Acefrog is the only one who was in this thread who had a completed run. Not the best run, mind you, but a completed one. In any case, I might have to put off streaming until next Friday or something. I have only one day off this week, so I likely won't have the time. I'm still looking over Acefrog's route to see if there's anything radically different from Havok's, so I'll get back to you guys when I finish.

lxXGoatXxl

2014-08-20 06:28:13 pm

And as Havok already stated, it's basically the same as his route, except Acefrog goes with more Ridepod upgrades. So the choices are pretty much the same. The only noteworthy difference in time is that you need to farm some EXP for Steve, take a couple more pictures, and invent a couple other things. Altogether I would say Havok's route is about 1-3 minutes faster, based on the extra things you have to do in Acefrog's route. But using the Laser Arm 3 might end up being a huge deal faster than the Nova or Barrel Cannons, all around saving time. But then again, the LA3 uses 4WHP per attack, so you might waste the time saved in the item menu. I guess it just comes down to what you would rather do.

As a side note, I can't wait to route out the Photo Album run. XD

rainbzer

Edit history:

rainbzer: 2014-08-20 07:20:52 pm

2014-08-20 07:19:38 pm

Yea, this game has room for quite a few cool categories. Too bad we seem to be some of the only runners... haha. There could be certain weapon%'s photo album%'s, 100%, any%, low%, max%, monica%, etc....

rainbzer

Edit history:

rainbzer: 2014-08-20 10:26:51 pm

2014-08-20 10:24:46 pm

http://www.twitch.tv/amasawa2600/c/4953587 Recorded my run up to the chapter 2 title screen (All i had time for this time) I have places to save time still but it was way faster than my blind attempt just starting out haha.

If you have time to watch or have nothing to do, feel free to leave comments.

lxXGoatXxl

2014-08-20 10:30:09 pm

Will do when I have a chance, Rain. I'll be glad to join you eventually. You also forgot to mention the All Chapter run that includes Ch.8, but isn't 100% or any of the others. XD

HavokMoobii

Edit history:

HavokMoobii: 2014-08-21 12:01:19 pm

HavokMoobii: 2014-08-21 02:36:03 am

HavokMoobii: 2014-08-21 02:14:23 am

HavokMoobii: 2014-08-21 02:03:59 am

HavokMoobii: 2014-08-21 01:57:02 am

HavokMoobii: 2014-08-21 01:56:22 am

2014-08-21 01:24:50 am

Just making notes as I watch.

- When you talk to npcs that want an item (most of the time) you can just press square instead of talking to them. With the clown you give the ticket to you can just walk up and press square and you know the ticket is always in the first slot, so you can just hit x as soon as the window pops up both times.

- Your diagonal running is looking a lot better today. If you get good at running while facing both directions you can just switch to the other way at corners and its really fast.

- You don't have to wait near enemies after killing them. The gate key will come to you no matter how far away you go.

- I do a 2 hit combo on rats, then finish them with the gun. It seems to be slightly faster than a 3 hit combo.

- You can put healing items on your quick slots by selecting equip on the inventory screen. Just be careful not to waste them when trying to interact with the exits.

- Yes, the game is mean. It hates every one of us.

- I'm pretty sure the first Linda fight ends on her first attack after 30 seconds of battle has passed. I just play around for 25 seconds, then stand in front of her blocking.

- Pressing R or L while buying or selling with change the quantity by 10. Makes shopping a lot quicker. In Georama it changes it by 5, so when making the rivers for Sindain you can hit R 3 times then down to make 15. (6, 11, 16, 15)

- Practice your photo ops. I like to get the Wooden Box in Cedrics house, then the Belt. You can snap the belt from really far away.. almost Cedric's stairs. I get the Pipe and the Milk Can next, then going along that wall I get a Window and the Barrel, and when you go into Morton's shop the books are on the counter.

- I haven't changed the route yet, but I don't even bother getting money from Cedric anymore. It's only 400 Gilda and you have to skip two cutscenes for it and go back into the menu.

- For Linda run behind her and just combo her. After the first combo if you keep attacking every hit will stagger her and she will be completely harmless.

- Good Halloween. I would stand a little closer while waiting for the nose, so you know you got the hit and you can get right in there for the 1 cycle.

- Flotsam is a jerk. If he is shooting the train, then you probably don't have enough time to bomb him. He becomes invincible from the last 2ish seconds of shooting until like a second after he lands. I have actually lost this fight on several attempts.

Lookin good. It's nice to be able to watch someone else run this game.

Edit: Going to post some Georama pictures. These are the builds I do.

Chapter 2:

Chapter 3:

Chapter 4:

This is not quite optimal. The pots should be on the highlighted Pier, so you can remove everything you need for chapter 5 in two clicks.

Chapter 5:

Now I'm going to work on a perfect Flotsam fight.

Edit 2: Got a dazzle. Expect some videos and the occasional stream from me soon.

Just making notes as I watch.

- When you talk to npcs that want an item (most of the time) you can just press square instead of talking to them. With the clown you give the ticket to you can just walk up and press square and you know the ticket is always in the first slot, so you can just hit x as soon as the window pops up both times.

- Your diagonal running is looking a lot better today. If you get good at running while facing both directions you can just switch to the other way at corners and its really fast.

- You don't have to wait near enemies after killing them. The gate key will come to you no matter how far away you go.

- I do a 2 hit combo on rats, then finish them with the gun. It seems to be slightly faster than a 3 hit combo.

- You can put healing items on your quick slots by selecting equip on the inventory screen. Just be careful not to waste them when trying to interact with the exits.

- Yes, the game is mean. It hates every one of us.

- I'm pretty sure the first Linda fight ends on her first attack after 30 seconds of battle has passed. I just play around for 25 seconds, then stand in front of her blocking.

- Pressing R or L while buying or selling with change the quantity by 10. Makes shopping a lot quicker. In Georama it changes it by 5, so when making the rivers for Sindain you can hit R 3 times then down to make 15. (6, 11, 16, 15)

- Practice your photo ops. I like to get the Wooden Box in Cedrics house, then the Belt. You can snap the belt from really far away.. almost Cedric's stairs. I get the Pipe and the Milk Can next, then going along that wall I get a Window and the Barrel, and when you go into Morton's shop the books are on the counter.

- I haven't changed the route yet, but I don't even bother getting money from Cedric anymore. It's only 400 Gilda and you have to skip two cutscenes for it and go back into the menu.

- For Linda run behind her and just combo her. After the first combo if you keep attacking every hit will stagger her and she will be completely harmless.

- Good Halloween. I would stand a little closer while waiting for the nose, so you know you got the hit and you can get right in there for the 1 cycle.

- Flotsam is a jerk. If he is shooting the train, then you probably don't have enough time to bomb him. He becomes invincible from the last 2ish seconds of shooting until like a second after he lands. I have actually lost this fight on several attempts.

Lookin good. It's nice to be able to watch someone else run this game.

Edit: Going to post some Georama pictures. These are the builds I do.

Chapter 2:
[hidden][IMG]http://i57.tinypic.com/vi2qki.jpg[/IMG][/hidden]

Chapter 3:
[hidden][IMG]http://i60.tinypic.com/sl44tv.jpg[/IMG][/hidden]

Chapter 4:
[hidden][IMG]http://i61.tinypic.com/2lxgm0x.jpg[/IMG][/hidden]
This is not quite optimal. The pots should be on the highlighted Pier, so you can remove everything you need for chapter 5 in two clicks.

Chapter 5:
[hidden][IMG]http://i62.tinypic.com/1el9jr.jpg[/IMG][/hidden]

Now I'm going to work on a perfect Flotsam fight.

Edit 2: Got a dazzle. Expect some videos and the occasional stream from me soon.

Acefrog

2014-08-21 03:33:39 pm

Although not currently actively playing this game.. I am watching this thread and have considered re-picking up this game (Among others)

As for my current route on my page.. I have no clue where i got up too, but I am sure it is a UNTESTED and maybe a broke route. I have no idea why I updated it with that one.

My plans before stopping were these.. 1) Fully testing fishing frenzy to win a Bandit coin at the end (Different option to winning that pesky spherda). 2) Something I forgot... lol 3) Testing the Laser Arm 3, how fast it can clear and the upgrade notes for materials to buy it and upgrade the ridepod for it. If anyone wants to take up my notes.. these are the things to look out for (Fishing Frenzy not so much, other than the BC weapon which I was considering skipping).

Also another thing to add.. someone came forward saying they were interested and PM'd me some interesting things which aren't mentioned anywhere else.. and to quote:

Quote:

well for starters, ill just explain so exploits within the game, you can cancel every attack with block for infinite attacking, You upgrade you guns right? well, in a good run, you can get the dryer gun in the 1st chapter, so just for the first chapter go through every enemy in each floor, up'ing max's wrench, its a smooth ride through butterfly woods. There's a duplication glitch that is specified on a frame, at the end of the floor when you get the "all monsters cleared" font, be sure to be near a crate, pick it up and as max or monica picks it up, and id you do it at the right frame, it clears their hands from all equipped weapons. when you open your inventory, the weapons are still there, but there will be a set in your item bag. Now to the theory, would you know how the game's RNG works with maps? I believe if you replicated the way you killed the monsters on the first floor, the way you killed the clowns in order, or the way you moved in the intro talking to the people, may effect the RNG of the game, then its just a set path through out the rest of the game.

The most interesting thing being the RNG map manipulation, Infinite attacking? And maybe the duping, but not so major on this.

Although not currently actively playing this game.. I am watching this thread and have considered re-picking up this game (Among others)

As for my current route on my page.. I have no clue where i got up too, but I am sure it is a UNTESTED and maybe a broke route. I have no idea why I updated it with that one.

My plans before stopping were these.. 1) Fully testing fishing frenzy to win a Bandit coin at the end (Different option to winning that pesky spherda). 2) Something I forgot... lol 3) Testing the Laser Arm 3, how fast it can clear and the upgrade notes for materials to buy it and upgrade the ridepod for it. If anyone wants to take up my notes.. these are the things to look out for (Fishing Frenzy not so much, other than the BC weapon which I was considering skipping).

Also another thing to add.. someone came forward saying they were interested and PM'd me some interesting things which aren't mentioned anywhere else.. and to quote:

[quote]well for starters, ill just explain so exploits within the game, you can cancel every attack with block for infinite attacking, You upgrade you guns right? well, in a good run, you can get the dryer gun in the 1st chapter, so just for the first chapter go through every enemy in each floor, up'ing max's wrench, its a smooth ride through butterfly woods. There's a duplication glitch that is specified on a frame, at the end of the floor when you get the "all monsters cleared" font, be sure to be near a crate, pick it up and as max or monica picks it up, and id you do it at the right frame, it clears their hands from all equipped weapons. when you open your inventory, the weapons are still there, but there will be a set in your item bag. Now to the theory, would you know how the game's RNG works with maps? I believe if you replicated the way you killed the monsters on the first floor, the way you killed the clowns in order, or the way you moved in the intro talking to the people, may effect the RNG of the game, then its just a set path through out the rest of the game.[/quote]

The most interesting thing being the RNG map manipulation, Infinite attacking? And maybe the duping, but not so major on this.

HavokMoobii

Edit history:

HavokMoobii: 2014-08-21 05:25:00 pm

HavokMoobii: 2014-08-21 04:49:35 pm

HavokMoobii: 2014-08-21 04:49:21 pm

HavokMoobii: 2014-08-21 04:32:58 pm

2014-08-21 04:23:17 pm

I played around with this "Infinite attacking" and it doesn't seem to work. I mean.. you can cancel Max's melee attacks, but the next one is still going to be super slow. It sounds like the RNG thing is just more or less explaining how TAS's work anyway.

I'm interested in the duping, but if it can happen it is probably frame perfect. Might be worth testing on an emulator if anyone has that capability.

Edit: My stream is live. It seems to skip around a lot too. Maybe someone can help me with the Xsplit settings?

http://www.twitch.tv/havokmoobii

Edit 2: Flotsam can be killed after just one jump.

Edit 3: http://www.twitch.tv/havokmoobii/c/4959173 Perfect Flotsam

lxXGoatXxl

2014-08-21 05:41:20 pm

That dupe glitch would be pretty helpful early on, or perhaps when you're aiming to build up to your Supernova. But the amount of time you spend to clear an entire floor would make it almost not worth it. But at the same time, what if you were to get a good enough gun early on and didn't have to use Steve at all? What if you could get the Steal Gun before you needed to invent it, and then by that point only used Steve to run around? Hypothetical ideas. Going to have to look a lot into that. The change from Max-Steve-Max takes about 5-6 seconds in total. If you could take those changes away, I would estimate about 3 minutes would be saved throughout the game.

Also, glad to see you there, Acefrog! And I'm really glad to see all the interest people are taking in this game. It's long overdue for a serious run. And good job, Havok! I wondered if that was possible.

rainbzer

2014-08-21 06:53:16 pm

Another discovery i had is that you can change your options from the title screen before you start the new game. This will save 5-6 seconds depending on how fast you are at changing those in your run. SGDQ 2015 / AGDQ 2016 possibility hype???

haha. Thanks for all the tips I'll be putting them to use. I want a sub-30 time on chapter 1 before i really work on chapter 2. Then onto the rest of the game! So exciting!

HavokMoobii

Edit history:

HavokMoobii: 2014-08-21 07:04:36 pm

2014-08-21 06:59:40 pm

Yup I do that and HYPE!!

Heres a sub 30. Its bad.. It's the first live run I have ever done, so I think nerves got to me. Maybe will help though.

http://www.twitch.tv/havokmoobii/c/4959566

I keep getting little lag spikes on the stream.. not sure what to do about that.

Edit: Heres the up to date route. I'll clean it up and make it easier to follow... one day.

http://pastebin.com/f3UTMf6J

rainbzer

Edit history:

rainbzer: 2014-08-21 07:08:15 pm

rainbzer: 2014-08-21 07:07:30 pm

2014-08-21 07:05:34 pm

You can decrease the stream quality depending on what you are using but check your upload at speedtest.net and see if you have a decent upload rate. That can be the problem sometimes and sometimes it can be how you are using the dazzle. If you are using a dazzle, (I think you are) you should be using Amarec to pull the signal from the card as any other software with the dazzle sucks. haha. I'm going to play a couple games of league of legends and then do another chapter 1 practice stream. I also ordered a japanese copy of the game off amazon for like 7 bucks so now im just looking for a way to play it when it comes.

HavokMoobii

Edit history:

HavokMoobii: 2014-08-21 07:33:56 pm

HavokMoobii: 2014-08-21 07:33:20 pm

HavokMoobii: 2014-08-21 07:32:19 pm

2014-08-21 07:31:59 pm

The swap discs will be about 30$. Tons cheaper than getting a Japanese PS2.

lxXGoatXxl

Edit history:

lxXGoatXxl: 2014-08-21 08:11:12 pm

2014-08-21 07:58:13 pm

Oh. I plan to take this to AGDQ 2015. One of us will make it there! I'm going to go ahead and set up my stream tomorrow. I'll most definitely need to do a Ch.2 practice run during that stream. Saturday I think I'll try to do a complete run, despite not knowing anything about Ch.5 onward. We'll see how it goes.

I look over at that "Who's Viewing" thing on the side, and I'm so glad to see all the names that have appeared in the few weeks we've been talking. This is a great day for Dark Cloud 2, and may finally be the boost the game needed to get an actual run up for SDA. I was actually incredibly surprised that this game hasn't been run before until now. I guess no one wanted to put in the time to make an RTA route and actually go through with it.

I think the best part about this game is that there are very few reset points, and almost any run can be salvaged based on luck alone. If you have bad luck in Ch.4 you can make it up with good luck in Ch.5. It's just awesome! So far I can see only 3 reset points in the entire run; failure to get a chestnut, failure to get enough Gilda in Ch.2, and failure to win spheda in Ch.5. To me, that speaks volumes about how solid this game is, despite being 30% luck based.

So I just watched a little of both of your practices. The only thing I think I might be faster than you two at is cutscene skipping. I got it down to where most of the time they don't even make a sound, or the screen is just barely transitioning from the black. There's quite a bit of time to be saved just by optimizing that as best you can. I'll probably choke when it comes time to stream though. XD Good practices, guys.

Oh. I plan to take this to AGDQ 2015. One of us will make it there! I'm going to go ahead and set up my stream tomorrow. I'll most definitely need to do a Ch.2 practice run during that stream. Saturday I think I'll try to do a complete run, despite not knowing anything about Ch.5 onward. We'll see how it goes.

I look over at that "Who's Viewing" thing on the side, and I'm so glad to see all the names that have appeared in the few weeks we've been talking. This is a great day for Dark Cloud 2, and may finally be the boost the game needed to get an actual run up for SDA. I was actually incredibly surprised that this game hasn't been run before until now. I guess no one wanted to put in the time to make an RTA route and actually go through with it.

I think the best part about this game is that there are very few reset points, and almost any run can be salvaged based on luck alone. If you have bad luck in Ch.4 you can make it up with good luck in Ch.5. It's just awesome! So far I can see only 3 reset points in the entire run; failure to get a chestnut, failure to get enough Gilda in Ch.2, and failure to win spheda in Ch.5. To me, that speaks volumes about how solid this game is, despite being 30% luck based.

So I just watched a little of both of your practices. The only thing I think I might be faster than you two at is cutscene skipping. I got it down to where most of the time they don't even make a sound, or the screen is just barely transitioning from the black. There's quite a bit of time to be saved just by optimizing that as best you can. I'll probably choke when it comes time to stream though. XD Good practices, guys.

HavokMoobii

Edit history:

HavokMoobii: 2014-08-21 08:34:42 pm

HavokMoobii: 2014-08-21 08:34:26 pm

2014-08-21 08:25:47 pm

You forgot getting savagely murdered by Griffon III. Brutally.

I actually made the route we are using like 2 years ago. Not having any means of producing videos at the time and being too busy to practice kinda killed it for me. On that note, I did a (horrible) full run with this route a year ago and ended with 9:11.

I would be better at skipping cutscenes, but I'm just so paranoid of getting the "bad pauses".

Its really exciting to see this taking off. I can't wait to race you guys!

Edit: I'm going to do a run in a few minutes. Want to try for a full run, but we'll see what happens. I'm adding all the spits now.

rainbzer

2014-08-21 08:46:35 pm

I'm fireing up stream now too. Gonna do chapter 1 again for sure. Might go further. If we get this to a GDQ and i'm not the runner, i have dibs on a couch spot!!!
:3

lxXGoatXxl

2014-08-21 08:52:36 pm

Well obviously a game over is a reset. XD

Even if it is 2 years old, it's still a very good route, and I can't find very many other ways that you can optimize it further without finding some ridiculous sequence break or alternate weapon strategy.

I'll be checking your streams out. And no matter what, it's GDQ or bust for me. And, like you Rain, if I'm not the runner, couch spot all the way. If I am the runner, I want all the people who've contributed to hop on that couch and share the moment of all our hard work finally making it to the big time! Sadly, I have only contributed very little to the route, so I kinda speak for everyone else. And TJP is like our ultimate cheer leader!

HavokMoobii

2014-08-21 10:51:15 pm

No Chestnut.

Unreal704

2014-08-22 01:24:39 pm

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

It's nice to see people working on this game. This was one of my favorite games growing up. Looking forward to a run of this game on the site or at a GDQ. Wink

Nice work so far guys.

tjp7154

2014-08-22 01:51:08 pm

#Casual

Ok, now following Havok's and rainbzer's channels so I can now be aware when you stream...

lxXGoatXxl

2014-08-22 06:24:45 pm

I'll be setting up my stream a little later tonight. I might do a full run if I don't screw everything up. Wish me luck!

lxXGoatXxl

2014-08-23 03:06:06 am

I'll reiterate. In just a few short weeks there has been a lot of work done and a lot of traffic coming through. We now have at least two streams up and running, and Havok is just about to finish a run. This is glorious, and I'm so glad to see all the new people coming and checking out the thread. Really, guys, it helps out a lot to know we have all of your support! Thank you!