Dark Cloud 2 (PS2)

Unreal704

Edit history:

Unreal704: 2015-08-16 08:08:39 pm

Unreal704: 2015-08-15 06:06:02 pm

Unreal704: 2015-08-15 05:39:31 pm

2015-08-15 05:39:12 pm

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

Nice I'll help and do some tests on chest drops and try to see if there is any difference in rock drops while On Steve vs. without once I finish my playthrough.

Edit: I'm curious if there is any kind of back up strat if you fail the spheda in 5-5 or get bad RNG and don't get a Bandit Coin in a chest. Do you guys just repeat 5-5 or go a different weapon path? I'm not sure if that's even an option.

Qazplm

Edit history:

Qazplm: 2015-08-17 09:18:48 am

2015-08-16 08:34:55 pm

I use the Heavy Hammer in my route which takes less time to make. I think it's the faster route than Steal Gun if you don't get a Bandit Coin since it takes no rng to make and the pictures take not much backtracking (Drum Can from G-Parts, Paznos, and Power Arm). Plus it only takes about 3-5 more minutes total on the boss fights. I also invent the Twin Buster right before Griffon (Jurak's Nose, Flower Chandelier, Rifle) to help with the last battle (makes it much much easier and maybe a minute faster than just Heavy Hammer alone to boot).

If you don't get the coin, I would just ignore Spheda and go this route since it will only cost at most 1-2 minutes if you assume a perfect spheda at 5-5. But downside is you will have to practice the bosses quite a bit to get the timing to work out. I can try to make a video to show how to make the Griffon and Dark Element fights bearable with the Heavy Hammer and Twin Buster, but it would probably still take a bit of practice to get used to the timing of everything.

Edit: Looks like Braydon went with a route using the Ama no Murakamo for Monica which you get from Ch. 6 floor 2 of Rainbow Butterfly Woods Spheda and Question Shooter for Sirus 1. The Question Shooter is undoubtedly slow. Took me about a 1:30 shorter to beat Sirus 1 in a clean heavy Hammer fight compared to a clean Question Shooter fight. Although with this route, Heavy Hammer also seems too dangerous since you are guaranteed to get hit a few times. The Ama no Murakamo, however, completely destroyed Griffon 2 in 17 seconds per phase at +3 with sun and moon stone and dark coin thrown on it. The infinite stun locking also makes it close to impossible for Griffon to retaliate. The boss rush was also on par with the Machine Gun Arm IV. Only the Last battle was a bit slow. Dark Element took me 2 phases to kill, which was only around 50 seconds. Plus, it may even be just as fast to fight as Monica as the Ridepod. It also requires the same amount of menuing since you'd have to switch parts with the Ridepod anyways.

Overall, it looks like the Ama no Murakamo with all upgrades thrown on Monica instead of Max may be another viable option, although it also leads to a few backup strats less if you decide to go with Monica at the moment. If you miss Spheda at Ch. 6 too many times, that'll be a run ender. And you also cannot just switch to Max because you'd have to have used all fruits of Eden by this point.

Another possibility I guess is name change with Muramasa since that's the fastest ultimate weapon for Monica. It took me about a 1:09 to do a pretty clean Sirus 1, and of course Sirus 2 would take around 20-30 seconds for the last 2 phases combined, so at the very least the boss fight will not save much time compared to Ama no Murakamo. The dungeons are the biggest variable in the equation. Would it be faster to get 40 medals (I'm assuming around 15 floors to completion) or would it be faster to fight with the Ridepod until we get Monica's sword?

Even more research. This is getting a lot more complicated than I expected. O3O

I use the Heavy Hammer in my route which takes less time to make. I think it's the faster route than Steal Gun if you don't get a Bandit Coin since it takes no rng to make and the pictures take not much backtracking (Drum Can from G-Parts, Paznos, and Power Arm). Plus it only takes about 3-5 more minutes total on the boss fights. I also invent the Twin Buster right before Griffon (Jurak's Nose, Flower Chandelier, Rifle) to help with the last battle (makes it much much easier and maybe a minute faster than just Heavy Hammer alone to boot).

If you don't get the coin, I would just ignore Spheda and go this route since it will only cost at most 1-2 minutes if you assume a perfect spheda at 5-5. But downside is you will have to practice the bosses quite a bit to get the timing to work out. I can try to make a video to show how to make the Griffon and Dark Element fights bearable with the Heavy Hammer and Twin Buster, but it would probably still take a bit of practice to get used to the timing of everything.

Edit: Looks like Braydon went with a route using the Ama no Murakamo for Monica which you get from Ch. 6 floor 2 of Rainbow Butterfly Woods Spheda and Question Shooter for Sirus 1. The Question Shooter is undoubtedly slow. Took me about a 1:30 shorter to beat Sirus 1 in a clean heavy Hammer fight compared to a clean Question Shooter fight. Although with this route, Heavy Hammer also seems too dangerous since you are guaranteed to get hit a few times. The Ama no Murakamo, however, completely destroyed Griffon 2 in 17 seconds per phase at +3 with sun and moon stone and dark coin thrown on it. The infinite stun locking also makes it close to impossible for Griffon to retaliate. The boss rush was also on par with the Machine Gun Arm IV. Only the Last battle was a bit slow. Dark Element took me 2 phases to kill, which was only around 50 seconds. Plus, it may even be just as fast to fight as Monica as the Ridepod. It also requires the same amount of menuing since you'd have to switch parts with the Ridepod anyways.

Overall, it looks like the Ama no Murakamo with all upgrades thrown on Monica instead of Max may be another viable option, although it also leads to a few backup strats less if you decide to go with Monica at the moment. If you miss Spheda at Ch. 6 too many times, that'll be a run ender. And you also cannot just switch to Max because you'd have to have used all fruits of Eden by this point.

Another possibility I guess is name change with Muramasa since that's the fastest ultimate weapon for Monica. It took me about a 1:09 to do a pretty clean Sirus 1, and of course Sirus 2 would take around 20-30 seconds for the last 2 phases combined, so at the very least the boss fight will not save much time compared to Ama no Murakamo. The dungeons are the biggest variable in the equation. Would it be faster to get 40 medals (I'm assuming around 15 floors to completion) or would it be faster to fight with the Ridepod until we get Monica's sword?

Even more research. This is getting a lot more complicated than I expected. O3O

Unreal704

Edit history:

Unreal704: 2015-08-17 10:15:27 am

Unreal704: 2015-08-17 10:14:55 am

2015-08-17 09:49:39 am

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

Wow so many route options! A 50 second Dark element fight is pretty fast. Compared to the Supernova + Stamina Drink + Dark coin it's only 12 seconds slower. How much faster was Griffon compared to other strats? Also, a side note about menuing when you must spell out words. You can press circle then left to quickly get back to the "OK" button if you didn't know.

Acefrog

2015-08-17 10:29:47 am

If it required to do Spherda to get Monicas weapon.. it sounds like just going the bandit coin route is better.
The stun lock on Sirus 2 is nice, but if it takes the same time to do Boss rush and a slower Dark Element, Steal gun + MGA IV would be superior. (I didnt watch the end of Braydons run, so I cant give proper comment)

Either way, I think we do too much speculating rather than getting hard times between each route.

My WR Route tmes(Including cutscenes, stam drinks etc):

Sirus 1-3 : 1:22.92 (Steal Gun, Dark Coin and Final Bomb)
Boss Rush: 5:24 (Nove Cannon II)
Dark Element: 2:27 (Gametime)

Sirus was not a perfect fight, and can easily save about 10 or so seconds.
Boss rush is just bad, I will not be using NC2 again (Not that I intended too use it in the first place)
Dark Element was bad, would have been a one cycle if I played properly and would have been only a 40second fight?

And to note, NC2 is a 2:40 Boss rush. LA3 is 1:30 similar to BCIV. Just to clear which is faster after last nights stream Tongue

If it required to do Spherda to get Monicas weapon.. it sounds like just going the bandit coin route is better. 
The stun lock on Sirus 2 is nice, but if it takes the same time to do Boss rush and a slower Dark Element, Steal gun + MGA IV would be superior. (I didnt watch the end of Braydons run, so I cant give proper comment)

Either way, I think we do too much speculating rather than getting hard times between each route.

My WR Route tmes(Including cutscenes, stam drinks etc):

Sirus 1-3 : 1:22.92 (Steal Gun, Dark Coin and Final Bomb)
Boss Rush: 5:24 (Nove Cannon II)
Dark Element: 2:27 (Gametime)

Sirus was not a perfect fight, and can easily save about 10 or so seconds.
Boss rush is just bad, I will not be using NC2 again (Not that I intended too use it in the first place)
Dark Element was bad, would have been a one cycle if I played properly and would have been only a 40second fight?

And to note, NC2 is a 2:40 Boss rush. LA3 is 1:30 similar to BCIV. Just to clear which is faster after last nights stream :P

Unreal704

Edit history:

Unreal704: 2015-08-17 06:09:57 pm

Unreal704: 2015-08-17 03:10:14 pm

Unreal704: 2015-08-17 01:34:38 pm

Unreal704: 2015-08-17 12:32:47 pm

Unreal704: 2015-08-17 12:05:55 pm

Unreal704: 2015-08-17 10:54:00 am

2015-08-17 10:53:33 am

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

Couldn't you use Laser Arm III on Dark Element? It would be faster then standing around waiting for him to change back to blue. I just used Stamina Drink,Steal Gun, and Dark coin on Griffon and used the Laser Arm III for boss rush and Dark Element. I wanted to test using Laser Arm III to get a time but foolishly saved over my file for the CH. 8 start (facepalm).

Edit: I just tested opening all chests in 2-3 twelve times and got chestnuts 50% of the time. Three of those times I got two chestnuts. There also was a pattern. I would say farming chests in 2-3 would be a good idea but it is a monica level so maybe we should farm another area like 2-1, 2-5, or 2-6. I'll have to test this stuff later.

1. 2
2. 0
3. 1
4. 0
5. 1
6. 2
7. 0
8. 2
9. 0
10. 0
11. 1
12. 0

Edit2: Is it possible to stack dark coins?

Edit3: I made a second twitch account for rpg's and strategy games. I'll stream some stuff and might do some chapter runs. School is starting soon so rip my free time in 3 weeks lol.

http://www.twitch.tv/laernusda

Edit4: So I tested acefrog's way to get the sun picture at palm brinks. I started the game at normal time speed and was able to get "the sun" after exiting Morton's. Right after you can change the speed to fast.

Couldn't you use Laser Arm III on Dark Element? It would be faster then standing around waiting for him to change back to blue. I just used Stamina Drink,Steal Gun, and Dark coin on Griffon and used the Laser Arm III for boss rush and Dark Element.  I wanted to test using Laser Arm III to get a time but foolishly saved over my file for the CH. 8 start (facepalm).

Edit: I just tested opening all chests in 2-3 twelve times and got chestnuts 50% of the time. Three of those times I got two chestnuts. There also was a pattern. I would say farming chests in 2-3 would be a good idea but it is a monica level so maybe we should farm another area like 2-1, 2-5, or 2-6. I'll have to test this stuff later.

1. 2 
2. 0
3. 1
4. 0
5. 1
6. 2
7. 0
8. 2
9. 0
10. 0
11. 1
12. 0

Edit2: Is it possible to stack dark coins?

Edit3: I made a second twitch account for rpg's and strategy games. I'll stream some stuff and might do some chapter runs. School is starting soon so rip my free time in 3 weeks lol.

http://www.twitch.tv/laernusda

Edit4: So I tested acefrog's way to get the sun picture at palm brinks. I started the game at normal time speed and was able to get "the sun" after exiting Morton's. Right after you can change the speed to fast.

Qazplm

2015-08-17 07:17:38 pm

You can 100% definitely find the sun after Morton's even on fast speed. It'll most likely be near the flags, so just look up from exiting Morton's.

I finally decided to test out the Linda fight because of what Acefrog said about attacking multiple times instead of just once and got some interesting results...
The first time, I used my method which is to just attack twice in case I miss or something and run around her in circles. The first time I did so, I got 35 seconds.
I tested running around and shooting every few seconds and got 32 seconds.
I then tested out shooting nonstop until I ran out of bullets and got 30 seconds.
Then I tested out my original method again and got 30 seconds again.
Every trial after that no matter what method was a consistent 30 seconds for whatever reason. Possibly due to using an emulator and save states not working out as it should.

Unreal704

Edit history:

Unreal704: 2015-08-18 01:45:27 am

Unreal704: 2015-08-18 01:44:52 am

2015-08-17 08:06:40 pm

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

I realized that the time starts to change once you get to palm brinks after Linda 1. So it shouldn't matter if the time is fast or slow. The whole time you are in the channel for the first 3 stages the time stays at 10 pm lol.

Edit: I've been deciding on a route for health and I'm going with buying cheese in future Balance Valley for 1200 gilda when I would buy the hourglass. It's a bit cheaper then buying chicken and this is assuming we get a carrot and chestnut.

I also think I'm going a no spheda route and using Qazplm's idea of Twin Buster and Heavy Hammer. I'll stack a dark coin and moonstone onto the twin buster. I'm hesitant on whether to go for NCII or MGAIV. I've heard that MGAIV has the ability to miss some enemies while NCII can be slow at times. Oh, and if I get lucky like AceFrog and get a bandit coin in some chests I'll just use steal gun.

I've also come up with a very easy and quick Shingala strat. I forgot to archive my past broadcasts so I'll explain... Simply get on Steve and slash Shingala three times and go to pick up the fish and wait for him to open his mouth. Consistent and easy lol. Smiley

I realized that the time starts to change once you get to palm brinks after Linda 1. So it shouldn't matter if the time is fast or slow. The whole time you are in the channel for the first 3 stages the time stays at 10 pm lol.

Edit: I've been deciding on a route for health and I'm going with buying cheese in future Balance Valley for 1200 gilda when I would buy the hourglass. It's a bit cheaper then buying chicken and this is assuming we get a carrot and chestnut.

I also think I'm going a no spheda route and using Qazplm's idea of Twin Buster and Heavy Hammer. I'll stack a dark coin and moonstone onto the twin buster. I'm hesitant on whether to go for NCII or MGAIV. I've heard that MGAIV has the ability to miss some enemies while NCII can be slow at times. Oh, and if I get lucky like AceFrog and get a bandit coin in some chests I'll just use steal gun.

I've also come up with a very easy and quick Shingala strat. I forgot to archive my past broadcasts so I'll explain... Simply get on Steve and slash Shingala three times and go to pick up the fish and wait for him to open his mouth. Consistent and easy lol. :)

Qazplm

Edit history:

Qazplm: 2015-08-18 04:33:31 pm

2015-08-18 01:51:43 am

It's not really an ability to miss, but you can't aim up or down so you'll miss many flying enemies and really short enemies.

And for Shingala, you can hit him once with the Ridepod + Samurai Arms, or you can shoot him about 5 times with the Bell Trigger. Guaranteed to get him to open his mouth.

Edit: So...Dark Element is an idiot. We need to see if we can find a way to replicate this. http://www.twitch.tv/qazplm9000/v/11592906 (Warning, this is extremely loud)

I tried starting the fight with Monica right away before, so I don't think it's as simple as "Start firing away as Monica" or "Stay in place", although I could be wrong.

Unreal704

2015-08-18 09:00:02 pm

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

Where did you end up getting the destruction brassard? Hopefully we can figure that out and make it consistent Smiley

pretty funny though.

Qazplm

2015-08-19 01:29:03 am

Destruction Brassard is a random drop in a chest. I tried fighting Dark Element again and it didn't work, so it definitely seems like a once in a lifetime thing. Tongue

Also, no chestnut officially seems to be a run ender if you want to aim for WR. Acefrog and I got really close times and sub 7 is definitely coming really soon if one of us can do the game almost flawlessly. Those 2 minutes for Polly and the extra 2 for Ferdinand if you miss a chestnut is too huge of a time loss.

I might try to make my route more readable and put it in a pastebin in case anyone wants to see the route I use. It's probably the same as Acefrog's route now though since he finally converted to Buggy and MGA4.

Unreal704

Edit history:

Unreal704: 2015-08-19 06:37:36 am

Unreal704: 2015-08-19 06:37:31 am

2015-08-19 06:18:45 am

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

Congrats to both of you! I love how you both got a low 7 hour run in the same day, less then a minute off lol. I want to try a run sometime but I just don't know when I'll have the time for it. :/ I might do each chapter as a segment since it's a shorter amount of time and easier for my schedule. Also, I'd like to see your route sometime Smiley

Qazplm

2015-08-19 07:41:02 am

Slapped my notes in a pastebin. Also, you can see what I call some of the enemies instead of their actual names. http://pastebin.com/Q5W4JSY5
These are just the super condensed notes I use when I'm running. Not sure if they're all that helpful.

Tetsero

2015-08-19 08:22:59 am

Ace would have gotten wr if he switched to Ridepod!

Acefrog

2015-08-19 09:11:53 am

I couldnt switch to ridepod, I only had MGAIV, I sold my NC to buy another final bomb. I might have got it if I didnt lose claire straight away.

Qazplm

2015-08-19 10:54:01 am

I think you mean Monica, not Claire.

And you probably would've gotten it if you didn't try to open that door with your Final Bomb. Tongue

Unreal704

Edit history:

Unreal704: 2015-08-19 12:55:52 pm

2015-08-19 12:27:31 pm

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

You got 2 final bombs? I wanted to try and figure a route that uses 3 final bombs on griffon. They are effective in his second and third phase right? Maybe skip 2 scrolls and sell the NC.

Acefrog

2015-08-19 04:04:04 pm

One of the last floors I accidently threw my final bomb instead of opening the menu to use the key. So I lost WR by having to go to a shop to buy another..

It might be possible to use more final bombs in the griffon fight, but it all depends on how much money you have. My last run I could have possibly got more, instead of the fuel. But thats riskyish.

Unreal704

Edit history:

Unreal704: 2015-08-19 06:10:54 pm

2015-08-19 06:10:24 pm

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

I had an idea to invent and make items then sell them to gain profit. I'm trying to find a faq that has how much items sell for including weapons and clothes. If it's not too much of a hassle or cost too much time we could possibly use this to get 3 final bombs or cut chest grinding. Most of the weapons cost too much to make and sell for less. I'm guessing this is the same for clothes and other items.

Tetsero

2015-08-19 06:13:30 pm

Turkeys are the main one to do that with.

Unreal704

Edit history:

Unreal704: 2015-08-19 06:27:06 pm

Unreal704: 2015-08-19 06:23:49 pm

Unreal704: 2015-08-19 06:23:31 pm

2015-08-19 06:20:52 pm

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

It only uses 3 rolling logs and 3 scraps of metal which costs 90 gilda to make so you would make a 140 gilda profit since it sells for 230. It would take a while making all those turkeys but maybe it's a possibility to skip out on some chests? Chest grinding would be needed for other things like the bandit coin. 140 isn't much as well.

To reach 10,800 gilda to buy 3 final bombs, you would need 77 Turkeys LOL. Is this the only item that would gain more profit then 140 gilda?

Acefrog

2015-08-19 06:33:54 pm

I have already tested Turkey grinding, its not worth it in the RTA route really.. You are looking at a 20+ minute turkey grind to get all the gilda you need for everything

Unreal704

Edit history:

Unreal704: 2015-08-20 01:44:27 pm

Unreal704: 2015-08-20 01:13:17 pm

Unreal704: 2015-08-20 01:07:05 pm

Unreal704: 2015-08-20 01:05:25 pm

Unreal704: 2015-08-20 12:54:56 pm

Unreal704: 2015-08-20 11:19:59 am

Unreal704: 2015-08-20 11:19:07 am

Unreal704: 2015-08-20 11:01:16 am

Unreal704: 2015-08-20 11:00:36 am

Unreal704: 2015-08-20 10:47:41 am

Unreal704: 2015-08-20 09:43:38 am

2015-08-20 09:40:48 am

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

I've been looking at chest drops in Mt. Gundor and it looks like in certain stages you are guaranteed a rare drop. In 5-5 I got a might healing once, a Falcon club, and a bulls-eye coin (would this coin be useful in a run?). I'm going to look at the first 4 stages and see if they guarantee a rare drop as well.

Edit: I shouldn't say guaranteed since I havent gotten any rare items in some tests but there is a higher percentage.

Edit2: It looks like 5-4 and 5-5 are good places to grind chests. I got multiple rare items in 5-5 a few times. 2 coins in one visit. 5-4 has a lower percentage in my trials. I've never seen so many coins on a stage like 5-5. I'm also getting better at spheda. I read a faq that said that on rocky terrain, a smaller amount of backspin is better then a lot to kill the balls speed.

5-1: Rare Item
1.Stamina Drink
2.Resurrection Powder
3. None
4. Mighty Healing
5. Bell Trigger
6. None
7. Stamina Drink

5-2: Rare Item
1. None
2. Magic Gun (Key), Stamina Drink (Key)
3. Mighty Healing
4. Antique Sword (Key)
5. None
6. None

5-3: Rare Item
1. Broad Sword
2. Falcon (clown yellow box)
3. None
4. None
5. Gold Brassard
6. None (Exploding Trap)
7. None

5-4: Rare Item
1. Shamshir
2. Treasure Key
3. Mighty Healing
4. None
5. None
6. Bull’s Eye Coin
7. None
8. None
9. Bone Rapier (Key)
10.None

5-5: Rare Item
1. Mighty Healing
2. Falcon
3. Bull’s Eye Coin
4. None
5. None
6. Poison Coin (yellow box)
7. Dark Coin, Mighty Healing, Absorption Coin
8. Bandit Coin (Red box), Stamina Drink
9. None
10. None
11. Bull’s Eye Coin (Force)
12. Experience Coin (Force)
13. None
14. None
15. Some Sword in yellow clown box, Bandit Coin (Forced)
16. Healing Coin (Key)
17. None

I've been looking at chest drops in Mt. Gundor and it looks like in certain stages you are guaranteed a rare drop. In 5-5 I got a might healing once, a Falcon club, and a bulls-eye coin (would this coin be useful in a run?). I'm going to look at the first 4 stages and see if they guarantee a rare drop as well.

Edit: I shouldn't say guaranteed since I havent gotten any rare items in some tests but there is a higher percentage.

Edit2: It looks like 5-4 and 5-5 are good places to grind chests. I got multiple rare items in 5-5 a few times. 2 coins in one visit. 5-4 has a lower percentage in my trials. I've never seen so many coins on a stage like 5-5. I'm also getting better at spheda. I read a faq that said that on rocky terrain, a smaller amount of backspin is better then a lot to kill the balls speed.

5-1: Rare Item
1.Stamina Drink
2.Resurrection Powder
3. None
4. Mighty Healing
5. Bell Trigger
6. None
7. Stamina Drink

5-2: Rare Item
1. None
2. Magic Gun (Key), Stamina Drink (Key)
3. Mighty Healing
4. Antique Sword (Key)
5. None
6. None

5-3: Rare Item
1. Broad Sword
2. Falcon (clown yellow box)
3. None 
4. None
5. Gold Brassard
6. None (Exploding Trap)
7. None

5-4: Rare Item
1. Shamshir
2. Treasure Key
3. Mighty Healing
4. None
5. None
6. Bull’s Eye Coin
7. None
8. None
9. Bone Rapier (Key)
10.None

5-5: Rare Item
1. Mighty Healing
2. Falcon
3. Bull’s Eye Coin
4. None
5. None
6. Poison Coin (yellow box)
7. Dark Coin, Mighty Healing, Absorption Coin
8. Bandit Coin (Red box), Stamina Drink
9. None
10. None
11. Bull’s Eye Coin (Force)
12. Experience Coin (Force)
13. None
14. None
15. Some Sword in yellow clown box, Bandit Coin (Forced) 
16. Healing Coin (Key)
17. None

Acefrog

2015-08-20 03:34:01 pm

Yea I found out a while ago that 4-5 and 5-5 are good item drops. Thats why I go insane chest hunting at this point if I havent had a bandit cooin drop yet.

Unreal704

2015-08-20 05:27:39 pm

Also known as Bottles/Sydynski

What other levels have you gotten a bandit coin on? In the 17 runs at 5-5 I think I failed the spheda 4 or 5 times. I generally got a pretty good layout.

Tetsero

2015-08-20 11:25:25 pm

Just saw 5-11 get a bandit coin when Unreal704/LaernuSDA was doing a practice run. So there's another floor that has a bandit coin chance in chapter 5.