Dark Cloud 2 (PS2)

2010-02-08 07:23:21 pm

#Casual

Here it is! My new project!

Dark Cloud 2 is a PS2 game I played a long time ago and LOVED IT. I recently got my hands on it again and STILL love it.

It is a 3D Action RPG that has many different gameplay elements to it, including: real-time battles, weapon leveling (as opposed to character leveling), "synthesizing" different properties to weapons, MANY weapon choices, two characters to choose from, photography, land and town-forming, fishing, "golf", among others. There are a lot of elements to it.

The dungeons to it are randomly generated, but the layout of each area of the game differs in graphics and dungeon layout. It differs enough to not become too tedious too quickly. To get through each dungeon you have to defeat the (random) enemy that contains the "key" to the end of the dungeon and find the exit. It is possible to get past all the dungeons with only defeating one enemy per dungeon, at the loss of experience for your weapons.

Building up weapons is vital to the game as certain enemies are weak to certain elements (fire,chill,beast,scale,exorcism,smash,lightning) and weapons (wrench,pistol,machine,sword,bracelet).

Also, managing Gilda (gold), building materials (for building towns), and synthesizing material (i.e. elemental crystals) is absolutely essential to the game, especially for a speed run. From the very beginning, items and materials must be collected and game goals planned for, so that you don't have to backtrack or grind.

The following are techniques/tricks that are essential to this speed run:

-using the "Move" menu option to efficiently travel to previously-explored locations without having to actually run there
-SKIPPING CUT-SCENES. Most cut-scenes are skippable, thankfully, except for the intro movie, which only lasts for two or three minutes.
-Knowing exactly how to build towns to satisfy requirements of a world

The following are glitches I've heard about and need to evaluate to see if they are worth it.

-"name change" item that allows you to change the name of your weapon to the highest-level weapon in the game. This requires 40 medals PER weapon, and medals take WAY too long obtain (from passing certain challenges in the dungeon levels).

-"lure-duplication glitch" - this allows you infinite money, but only happens after midway through the 4th world AND after raising a fish to put in a race. This one MIGHT be useful later on.

-"Synthesizing lower-level weapons to higher-level to save time in upgrading a high-level weapon". The basis of this is that you can level up a basic weapon, then synthesize it into a higher-level one and this supposedly saves time because it takes less time to get synthesis points for lower-level weapons than it does for higher-level ones. My problem with this is that you have to re-enter lower-level dungeons to even effectively use those low-level weapons, or you have to constantly switch weapons in order to kill an enemy with the high-lvl weapon and switch in order to get the experience for the lower-lvl weapon. I think it might still be useful, but only in the latter levels (when I actually get there).

====

Right now I'm practicing the first two worlds, seeing how quickly I can pass them, thinking only about the requirements for those worlds. I do this because I'm still replaying the game and I don't want to look at a faq until I've completed the world :p.

Once I move to another world, I'll incorporate that world's goals into my planning. I do this so: 1) I don't have to play through the whole game first, 2) To keep fresh playing the lower levels, and 3) to refine strategies and get a clearer picture.

Right now I don't even include strategies for leveling up "Steve" (Max's ride), which is required for the mini-boss of World 5. Right now, I can use bombs, improved bombs, and other throwable items to handle the machines and enemies that normally Steve is useful for.

I looked at http://ultimagarden.net/ and it's time-attack score for Dark Chronicle (the Japanese version of Dark Cloud 2) is 6:38 at the ending of level 7 (level 8 is optional).

That is my first goal.
===

So, anyone else have any tips/strategies?

Thread title:

Here it is!  My new project!

Dark Cloud 2 is a PS2 game I played a long time ago and LOVED IT.  I recently got my hands on it again and STILL love it.

It is a 3D Action RPG that has many different gameplay elements to it, including: real-time battles, weapon leveling (as opposed to character leveling), "synthesizing" different properties to weapons, MANY weapon choices, two characters to choose from,  photography, land and town-forming, fishing, "golf", among others.  There are a lot of elements to it.

The dungeons to it are randomly generated, but the layout of each area of the game differs in graphics and dungeon layout.  It differs enough to not become too tedious too quickly.  To get through each dungeon you have to defeat the (random) enemy that contains the "key" to the end of the dungeon and find the exit.  It is possible to get past all the dungeons with only defeating one enemy per dungeon, at the loss of experience for your weapons.

Building up weapons is vital to the game as certain enemies are weak to certain elements (fire,chill,beast,scale,exorcism,smash,lightning) and weapons (wrench,pistol,machine,sword,bracelet).

Also, managing Gilda (gold), building materials (for building towns), and synthesizing material (i.e. elemental crystals) is absolutely essential to the game, especially for a speed run.  From the very beginning, items and materials must be collected and game goals planned for, so that you don't have to backtrack or grind.

The following are techniques/tricks that are essential to this speed run:

-using the "Move" menu option to efficiently travel to previously-explored locations without having to actually run there
-SKIPPING CUT-SCENES.  Most cut-scenes are skippable, thankfully, except for the intro movie, which only lasts for two or three minutes.
-Knowing exactly how to build towns to satisfy requirements of a world

The following are glitches I've heard about and need to evaluate to see if they are worth it.

-"name change" item that allows you to change the name of your weapon to the highest-level weapon in the game.  This requires 40 medals PER weapon, and medals take WAY too long obtain (from passing certain challenges in the dungeon levels).

-"lure-duplication glitch" - this allows you infinite money, but only happens after midway through the 4th world AND after raising a fish to put in a race.  This one MIGHT be useful later on.

-"Synthesizing lower-level weapons to higher-level to save time in upgrading a high-level weapon".  The basis of this is that you can level up a basic weapon, then synthesize it into a higher-level one and this supposedly saves time because it takes less time to get synthesis points for lower-level weapons than it does for higher-level ones.  My problem with this is that you have to re-enter lower-level dungeons to even effectively use those low-level weapons, or you have to constantly switch weapons in order to kill an enemy with the high-lvl weapon and switch in order to get the experience for the lower-lvl weapon.  I think it might still be useful, but only in the latter levels (when I actually get there).

====

Right now I'm practicing the first two worlds, seeing how quickly I can pass them, thinking only about the requirements for those worlds.  I do this because I'm still replaying the game and I don't want to look at a faq until I've completed the world :p.

Once I move to another world, I'll incorporate that world's goals into my planning.  I do this so: 1) I don't have to play through the whole game first, 2) To keep fresh playing the lower levels, and 3) to refine strategies and get a clearer picture.

Right now I don't even include strategies for leveling up "Steve" (Max's ride), which is required for the mini-boss of World 5.  Right now, I can use bombs, improved bombs, and other throwable items to handle the machines and enemies that normally Steve is useful for.

I looked at http://ultimagarden.net/ and it's time-attack score for Dark Chronicle (the Japanese version of Dark Cloud 2) is 6:38 at the ending of level 7 (level 8 is optional).

That is my first goal.
===

So, anyone else have any tips/strategies?

Rakuen

2010-02-08 08:20:46 pm

Weegee Time

Oh god, this is going to be the planning session from hell. I actually just picked up a used copy at Gamestop over the weekend to mess around with. I'll let you know if I come up with any ideas.

The medal thing definitely won't pan out because it takes absolutely forever to get them. Not to mention that it's basically impossible to get the time trial medal on the first time through a stage.

dballin

2010-02-08 11:35:00 pm

Balls jerky

Quote from Rakuen:

Oh god, this is going to be the planning session from hell.

Thoroughly agree with this statement. I traded this game in a long time ago since I don't have the patience (I think my sole play through took something like 70+ hours). Would be nice to see it get wrecked. I was wondering when someone would be crazy enough to suggest this. Best of luck to ya!

"Synthesizing lower-level weapons to higher-level to save time in upgrading a high-level weapon"

I remember doing this. I can't really say definitively that it would help in a speed run vs casual play, but it made me feel like i was moving along much quicker. I do remember that you lose points by synthesizing weapons onto other ones so you would actually need to gain more levels and use up more synth items to achieve the same effect. Definitely something to look at closer to see where the time advantage lies.

RaneofSOTN

2010-02-08 11:37:01 pm

I want off the ride....

Well the only thing I can say is.. there are quite a few high level weapons that can be made early by grabbing the right photos and inventing them...

I know one of them is a Sword and another a decent wrench. As for armlet/gun; thats just annoying. As for everything else... planning planning planning.. I wish you like TJP.

Rakuen

Edit history:

Rakuen: 2010-02-09 09:10:55 am

2010-02-09 12:13:57 am

Weegee Time

On inventing higher level weapons... it's kind of a double edged sword. While the weapon will be more powerful than what you have available, for one, it will level up slower because the enemies are weak. The other point is that a weapon that you have raised yourself will be far more powerful than the base invention. For example, if I take a Battle Wrench, level it up to +5, and then convert it to a Drill Wrench, the resulting weapon can have up to 45 more attribute points, and this is a basic conversion. So there'll need to be a little research put into the tradeoffs on this front too.

I think the Weapon FAQ on GameFAQs will be invaluable in this area.

Also, one thing about Max's ranged weapons, if you choose to use them, is that they're further divided into three types: normal, grenade, and beam. Resistances differ for each of these as well.

tjp7154

2010-02-09 02:12:57 am

#Casual

More notes:

-The same enemies hold the gate key to each dungeon. Those are located in the faqs.

Robo Clown Boss: Very easy. He slams his hands down first. Wait for that, then stand close in front of him. When he shoots out the bomb, pick it up and throw it back to damage/stun him. Immediately switch to Steve and begin swinging before the message pops up to inform you to hit the robot. Keep on hitting and you will kill it in one cycle.

Rainbow Butterfly: Very easy as well. Switch to Monica and immediately swipe at all the tentacles at the center. Keep at least 2 breads at the ready in the quick access slot. When the colored butterflies fly to the petals, go from red to purple following this strategy. Go close so that the butterfly shoots at you and flies away. Immediately block the shot then target the butterfly and shoot it with your bracelet. It will hit you, but that's okay. Your shot will home in on the butterfly and it will die. Just continue on to the next butterfly, using the bread to refill your health if it gets a bit low.

For building up Sindain, I found it's good to just follow the faq at gamefaqs. It's pretty simple, and as long as you put the cart, fruit tree, and pots next to more than one house, you'll get the necessary culture points (50) to get 100%

More notes:

-The same enemies hold the gate key to each dungeon.  Those are located in the faqs.

Robo Clown Boss: Very easy.  He slams his hands down first.  Wait for that, then stand close in front of him.  When he shoots out the bomb, pick it up and throw it back to damage/stun him.  Immediately switch to Steve and begin swinging before the message pops up to inform you to hit the robot.  Keep on hitting and you will kill it in one cycle.

Rainbow Butterfly: Very easy as well.  Switch to Monica and immediately swipe at all the tentacles at the center.  Keep at least 2 breads at the ready in the quick access slot.  When the colored butterflies fly to the petals, go from red to purple following this strategy.  Go close so that the butterfly shoots at you and flies away.  Immediately block the shot then target the butterfly and shoot it with your bracelet.  It will hit you, but that's okay.  Your shot will home in on the butterfly and it will die.  Just continue on to the next butterfly, using the bread to refill your health if it gets a bit low.

For building up Sindain, I found it's good to just follow the faq at gamefaqs.  It's pretty simple, and as long as you put the cart, fruit tree, and pots next to more than one house, you'll get the necessary culture points (50) to get 100%

Rakuen

2010-02-12 01:12:14 pm

Weegee Time

On Medals and Steve

I was playing today, and I had one of those levels where the medal requirement is to beat the stage with the Ridepod. So I did that, but I didn't just get that medal, I also got the time trial cleared as well. Armed with that knowledge, I'm going to go back on my previous statement and say that getting 40 medals for a ticket is feasible.

However, on top of that, I also wonder if it's possible to beat the game just using Steve and Monica. Monica will be required for Red Seal areas, and Steve exists for everything else. In addition, Steve's higher level legs move faster than your characters can on foot, so there's another bonus. You simply get the ticket as soon as possible, get Monica a God weapon, and then blaze through the rest of the game at top speed.

In a single segment run this might be dangerous, because if you lost Steve in a Sealed area, Max would die in short order since he has no good equipment. However, in a segmented run, you can just restart from your last save point. There is another complication in having to refuel/repair Steve with Cedric, and you lose Cedric to a town in Chapter 5. I'm also not sure if Steve is disabled at any point, since I've only actually played up to Chapter 3, but I'm sure you'd know if that happens.

[b]On Medals and Steve[/b]

I was playing today, and I had one of those levels where the medal requirement is to beat the stage with the Ridepod.  So I did that, but I didn't just get that medal, I also got the time trial cleared as well.  Armed with that knowledge, I'm going to go back on my previous statement and say that getting 40 medals for a ticket is feasible.

However, on top of that, I also wonder if it's possible to beat the game just using Steve and Monica.  Monica will be required for Red Seal areas, and Steve exists for everything else.  In addition, Steve's higher level legs move faster than your characters can on foot, so there's another bonus.  You simply get the ticket as soon as possible, get Monica a God weapon, and then blaze through the rest of the game at top speed.

In a single segment run this might be dangerous, because if you lost Steve in a Sealed area, Max would die in short order since he has no good equipment.  However, in a segmented run, you can just restart from your last save point.  There is another complication in having to refuel/repair Steve with Cedric, and you lose Cedric to a town in Chapter 5.  I'm also not sure if Steve is disabled at any point, since I've only actually played up to Chapter 3, but I'm sure you'd know if that happens.

tjp7154

2010-02-12 01:27:48 pm

#Casual

Issues to deal with when using Steve:

1. Before Steve gets his higher feet (roller feet, hover, buggy), he's way too slow to keep on him. Max is faster until the roller feet, but you also have to level up Steve somewhere in order to to get the 700 xp to buy it.

2. You don't get the roller feet until Chapter 3 (you need the rotating sign picture). Keep in mind that you need enough money to buy the materials for it, all the while having enough for the georama for Sindain AND Balance Valley.

3. Also, his Fuel decreases as long as you have him on. I think the quickest way to handle fuel consumption is to: A) not get hit, B) visit Cedric to heal
Steve, and C) Carry some fuel onhand

4. Steve is only mandatory in (I believe) one place: the miniboss of Mount Gundor (Chapter 4), right after the Fire Squall.

Rakuen

2010-02-12 02:07:09 pm

Weegee Time

Quote:

2. You don't get the roller feet until Chapter 3 (you need the rotating sign picture). Keep in mind that you need enough money to buy the materials for it, all the while having enough for the georama for Sindain AND Balance Valley.

You could counter this by keeping Need with you as your assistant at all times and selling crystals since you won't be leveling weapons much with a Steve/Monica run anyway.

And if you're using Steve to get medals for a ticket, you're not going to have any problems at all gathering experience points for a few upgrades in the early chapters.

tjp7154

2010-02-12 10:42:54 pm

#Casual

Hey, Rakuen.

When you you get the 40 medals and change one of the names, let me know what stats the weapon has when you change the name.

I can't find anywhere on the internet that actually says what the stats are when you change the name...

Rakuen

2010-02-12 10:52:31 pm

Weegee Time

I think it changes it to whatever the base stats for the weapon is. I'll work on getting up to 40 in the near future and let you know.

tjp7154

2010-02-13 01:18:09 am

#Casual

I plan on doing a test run, sometime tomorrow evening (maybe 5pm or 6pm), planning up to Chapter 4. This will give people an idea as to how the speedrun might look like.

Obviously, it's not finished (as there are 7 chapters), but it's a start...

My Ustream account is "TJP-VG-SR" (_LINK_)

Rakuen

2010-02-13 11:07:31 am

Weegee Time

Quote from tjp7154:

For building up Sindain, I found it's good to just follow the faq at gamefaqs. It's pretty simple, and as long as you put the cart, fruit tree, and pots next to more than one house, you'll get the necessary culture points (50) to get 100%

I'm curious, are you required to get 100% on all georamas to beat the game? If not, you can save a lot of time/money/materials by only doing the required segments. It also means you can skip recruiting several of the characters that you'd otherwise need.

In Sindain alone, you can skip recruiting Polly and Milane, and avoid building 2 houses, 5 trees, and 15 fence segments. That saves a lot of time and at least 1500 Gilda.

PMIT

2010-02-13 01:28:25 pm

I'm glad to see that someone's going to speedrun this great game.

I had thought of what a general plan might have been and I thought that Spheda prizes might be a good idea for a segmented run. I remember frequently being low on money in Chapter 2/3 from all the materials I had to buy, and that was from always killing every enemy. Buying some things, like the coins you need to recruit Donny, cost a ton, but I know there's one level in Balance Valley's dungeon (Starlight Canyon?) that has one of them as a Spheda prize. Others have the gems which give a lot of synthesis points (and I presume a lot of Gilda from being sold). Occasionally in Spheda the ball will be randomly generated literally right next to the hole wasting next to no time. Since you need to defeat all enemies to make it appear, they will be good places to generate exp for the Ridepod.

As for strategy, I thought that the best thing to do was use Steve as much as possible, inventing the highest level Barrel Cannon as soon as possible at the start. I don't know the best weapon to use once more become available though. Seal-breaking scrolls should be used for the later Monica only levels.

Also, can you save on the dungeon level select screen or is it only in the specified save spots. If it's the latter, the Spheda strategy might not be as useful, or at least a lot more frustrating.

I'm glad to see that someone's going to speedrun this great game.

I had thought of what a general plan might have been and I thought that Spheda prizes might be a good idea for a segmented run. I remember frequently being low on money in Chapter 2/3 from all the materials I had to buy, and that was from always killing every enemy. Buying some things, like the coins you need to recruit Donny, cost a ton, but I know there's one level in Balance Valley's dungeon (Starlight Canyon?) that has one of them as a Spheda prize. Others have the gems which give a lot of synthesis points (and I presume a lot of Gilda from being sold). Occasionally in Spheda the ball will be randomly generated literally right next to the hole wasting next to no time. Since you need to defeat all enemies to make it appear, they will be good places to generate exp for the Ridepod.

As for strategy, I thought that the best thing to do was use Steve as much as possible, inventing the highest level Barrel Cannon as soon as possible at the start. I don't know the best weapon to use once more become available though. Seal-breaking scrolls should be used for the later Monica only levels.

Also, can you save on the dungeon level select screen or is it only in the specified save spots. If it's the latter, the Spheda strategy might not be as useful, or at least a lot more frustrating.

Rakuen

2010-02-13 03:05:26 pm

Weegee Time

Quote from PMIT:

Also, can you save on the dungeon level select screen or is it only in the specified save spots. If it's the latter, the Spheda strategy might not be as useful, or at least a lot more frustrating.

You can save in the dungeons, however, if you use the Move command to enter the dungeon, you can't access the save command until you enter and exit a map.

Rakuen

Edit history:

Rakuen: 2010-02-13 06:54:46 pm

2010-02-13 06:41:33 pm

Weegee Time

Okay, I got a name tag, so I started going through all the weapons. Monica's development chart is insane, and she has 6 top tier weapons. When you use a tag to get a weapon, it doesn't have the base stats. Some of the stats are slightly higher, and others are removed. Previous weapon levels have no effect on the stats of the renamed weapon. Also, all weapons start with 2 Ability Points. Without any further ado, the list:

Name	Durability	Attack	Durable	Flame	Chill	Lightining	Cyclone	Smash	Exorcism	Beast	Scale	Abilities
Island King	100	150	89	0	0	0	0	200	200	200	200	None
Chronicle 2	92	150	85	0	0	0	0	150	150	150	150	Critical, Stop
Griffon Fork	92	148	85	0	150	0	150	150	150	0	0	None
Atlamillia Sword	92	149	85	150	0	0	0	0	100	150	150	None
Dark Cloud	92	150	85	99	99	0	150	150	0	0	0	None
Muramasa	92	149	85	0	150	150	0	0	0	0	150	None

As you can see, the Island King is the superior sword statistically, however, the Chronicle 2 is a contender with it's free abilities. If you decide to use the Nametag in your route, it'll likely be down to those two weapons.

Now here's the advantages and disadvantages I can think of of using Monica/Max at short range.

Advantages

1) Their combo attacks hit faster, and have more hits in them.
2) More weapon affinities, and the capability to improve them or add more abilities (likely the latter, you won't be leveling much).
3) Durability drains at a much slower rate, for the most part.

Disadvantages

1) Their attacks still don't stun enemies better than normal, even with the incredible increase in power.
2) They have to stop moving to attack, Steve does not.
3) If they get hit it can cause knockdown stuns, therefore the game is less forgiving.
4) More powerful weapons can be developed for Steve in Chapters 5-7.

Okay, I got a name tag, so I started going through all the weapons.  Monica's development chart is insane, and she has 6 top tier weapons.  When you use a tag to get a weapon, it [b]doesn't[/b] have the base stats.  Some of the stats are slightly higher, and others are removed.  Previous weapon levels have no effect on the stats of the renamed weapon.  Also, all weapons start with 2 Ability Points.  Without any further ado, the list:

[table][tr][td]Name[/td][td]Durability[/td][td]Attack[/td][td]Durable[/td][td]Flame[/td][td]Chill[/td][td]Lightining[/td][td]Cyclone[/td][td]Smash[/td][td]Exorcism[/td][td]Beast[/td][td]Scale[/td][td]Abilities[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Island King[/td][td]100[/td][td]150[/td][td]89[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]200[/td][td]200[/td][td]200[/td][td]200[/td][td]None[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Chronicle 2[/td][td]92[/td][td]150[/td][td]85[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]150[/td][td]150[/td][td]150[/td][td]150[/td][td]Critical, Stop[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Griffon Fork[/td][td]92[/td][td]148[/td][td]85[/td][td]0[/td][td]150[/td][td]0[/td][td]150[/td][td]150[/td][td]150[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]None[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Atlamillia Sword[/td][td]92[/td][td]149[/td][td]85[/td][td]150[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]100[/td][td]150[/td][td]150[/td][td]None[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Dark Cloud[/td][td]92[/td][td]150[/td][td]85[/td][td]99[/td][td]99[/td][td]0[/td][td]150[/td][td]150[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]None[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Muramasa[/td][td]92[/td][td]149[/td][td]85[/td][td]0[/td][td]150[/td][td]150[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]150[/td][td]None[/td][/tr][/table]

As you can see, the Island King is the superior sword statistically, however, the Chronicle 2 is a contender with it's free abilities.  If you decide to use the Nametag in your route, it'll likely be down to those two weapons.

Now here's the advantages and disadvantages I can think of of using Monica/Max at short range.

Advantages

1) Their combo attacks hit faster, and have more hits in them.
2) More weapon affinities, and the capability to improve them or add more abilities (likely the latter, you won't be leveling much).
3) Durability drains at a much slower rate, for the most part.

Disadvantages

1) Their attacks still don't stun enemies better than normal, even with the incredible increase in power.
2) They have to stop moving to attack, Steve does not.
3) If they get hit it can cause knockdown stuns, therefore the game is less forgiving.
4) More powerful weapons can be developed for Steve in Chapters 5-7.

tjp7154

2010-02-13 11:21:13 pm

#Casual

Thank you, Rakuen. I just did a test stream tonight up to chapter 4. I was able to pass Sindain without recruiting Milane, which means without having to level up the Gladius. I don't remember if you MUST recruit her for the end of the game, though...

The only time I had to use Monica's sword for Starlight Canyon was when I ran out of improved bombs for he Elfas and for Gaspard. (I didn't buy any seal-breaking scrolls -- perhaps those can be included in the route). For Gaspard, I used improved bombs to hit him. They're pretty effective, but still some sword-swinging is required.

The big question now is: how LONG did it take for you to get the required medals, and how much of that is out of your way?

Also, we need to find out exactly when Monica is absolutely necessary for the game (just like Gaspard). I know that Max battles Gaspard and the ship for chapter 5. Unless there's a battle in Chapter 7, I don't remember seeing anywhere where Monica is absolutely necessary.

Rakuen

Edit history:

Rakuen: 2010-02-14 12:18:23 am

2010-02-13 11:57:42 pm

Weegee Time

Reading the FAQ, the final boss shifts vulnerability between Max and Monica, so it makes that go faster. I can't even find any other mentions of Monica, so I think that's actually it. That means the tickets probably aren't that useful. Huh?

As for getting the medals, you can actually get all of them in sequence, except for backtracking to do 4 time trials in World 1 before the Chapter 3 boss, since you'll end up short that many. This includes seal breaking the W3 Monica stage with a scroll so you can time trial it as well. Most of the stages you'll end up finishing with at least minute to spare, on one outlier I finished 4 minutes under. All of this is just using Steve with the L1 Barrel Cannon, and then adding the Roller Feet for Chapter 3 only.

I couldn't give you a good number without playing through it all in a real sequence myself. But about how long is it taking you to get through the boss of Chapter 3?

I'm guessing this train of thought is probably going nowhere, but I guess its best to examine all the options thoroughly, eh?

Reading the FAQ, the final boss shifts vulnerability between Max and Monica, so it makes that go faster.  I can't even find any other mentions of Monica, so I think that's actually it.  That means the tickets probably aren't that useful. ???

As for getting the medals, you can actually get all of them in sequence, except for backtracking to do 4 time trials in World 1 before the Chapter 3 boss, since you'll end up short that many.  This includes seal breaking the W3 Monica stage with a scroll so you can time trial it as well.  Most of the stages you'll end up finishing with at least minute to spare, on one outlier I finished 4 minutes under.  All of this is just using Steve with the L1 Barrel Cannon, and then adding the Roller Feet for Chapter 3 only.

I couldn't give you a good number without playing through it all in a real sequence myself.  But about how long is it taking you to get through the boss of Chapter 3?

I'm guessing this train of thought is probably going nowhere, but I guess its best to examine all the options thoroughly, eh?

tjp7154

2010-02-14 06:41:30 am

#Casual

Because of Milane's requirement to build up the Gladius, I was using Monica for all of Sindain (going to Palm Brinks and buying a Gladius before starting Sindain's dungeons). That meant I actually had -some- stats on Monica's sword, but only Beast and Cyclone, since that's the requirement to level up the sword twice (30 ATK, 36 BST, 29 Cyc). BUT, for my test run last night I actually failed to get Milane since I practically breezed through the dungeons. The game still lets you continue to the next chapter without getting Milane. At Gaspard I had like 6 improved bombs (IB's) in my inventory so I used them (actually wasting 3 because he kept moving, lol). I really think he can be defeated with just item.

That's the same thing with Sheriff Blinkhorn and Stewart. The game lets you continue without them. This is why I need to know whether or not I need 100% on each area. If that's the case, we can still ignore those requirements until the end so we can ignore Monica.

The name change just might not work. Steve's weapons require higher-level cores so that won't work. Also, medals require defeating all the monsters in a level. In a ideal run, you run past most enemies and just defeat the gate-keeper.

Poor Monica. She might not get too much action in this run...

Because of Milane's requirement to build up the Gladius, I was using Monica for all of Sindain (going to Palm Brinks and buying a Gladius before starting Sindain's dungeons).  That meant I actually had -some- stats on Monica's sword, but only Beast and Cyclone, since that's the requirement to level up the sword twice (30 ATK, 36 BST, 29 Cyc).  BUT, for my test run last night I actually failed to get Milane since I practically breezed through the dungeons.  The game still lets you continue to the next chapter without getting Milane.  At Gaspard I had like 6 improved bombs (IB's) in my inventory so I used them (actually wasting 3 because he kept moving, lol).  I really think he can be defeated with just item.

That's the same thing with Sheriff Blinkhorn and Stewart.  The game lets you continue without them.  This is why I need to know whether or not I need 100% on each area.  If that's the case, we can still ignore those requirements until the end so we can ignore Monica.

The name change just might not work.  Steve's weapons require higher-level cores so that won't work.  Also, medals require defeating all the monsters in a level.  In a ideal run, you run past most enemies and just defeat the gate-keeper.

Poor Monica.  She might not get too much action in this run...

Rakuen

2010-02-14 10:34:01 am

Weegee Time

How are you proposing to build up characters? I'd think items are too expensive to make or buy to use them on absolutely everything...

tjp7154

2010-02-14 06:26:25 pm

#Casual

I was able to get through Chapter 2 using only the minimum georama requirements (not recruiting Milane or Polly), didn't use Monica except to get through Rolling Shells (used IB's on the Tores), and just squeezed enough money to do it all, even get the Barrel Cannon after "I'm a Pixie". I did it from selling basically everything I had in the inventory at the time.

I did all that WITHOUT getting any chests in dungeons in Chapter 1 or 2. I did, however, get 7 small chests in the future.

I don't know if all this can be done for Chapter 3 on, but it will at least give me an idea on where to start. The finished run will probably have some chests being opened, though.

Also, I read that the final boss switches his vulnerability from Max to Monica and back throughout the fight. I don't remember how often, but hopefully that won't put a damper on us not using Monica.

With at least 3 dungeon levels that Monica is required for (without the seal-breaking scroll), I hope items can be used in those instances...

I was able to get through Chapter 2 using only the minimum georama requirements (not recruiting Milane or Polly), didn't use Monica except to get through Rolling Shells (used IB's on the Tores), and just squeezed enough money to do it all, even get the Barrel Cannon after "I'm a Pixie".  I did it from selling basically everything I had in the inventory at the time.

I did all that WITHOUT getting any chests in dungeons in Chapter 1 or 2.  I did, however, get 7 small chests in the future.

I don't know if all this can be done for Chapter 3 on, but it will at least give me an idea on where to start.  The finished run will probably have some chests being opened, though.

Also, I read that the final boss switches his vulnerability from Max to Monica and back throughout the fight.  I don't remember how often, but hopefully that won't put a damper on us not using Monica.

With at least 3 dungeon levels that Monica is required for (without the seal-breaking scroll), I hope items can be used in those instances...

Rakuen

Edit history:

Rakuen: 2010-02-14 06:45:01 pm

2010-02-14 06:39:41 pm

Weegee Time

Well, there is a possibility to harvest some bombs. Ghost in the Channel in World 1 and Smiling Fairy Village in World 3 both give 4 Improved Bombs as their Spheda prize. You should be able full clear either of them in under 3 minutes using Steve. The latter stage gives 392 experience per full run, so you could also use it to upgrade Steve's core in the process and allow him to wield a better weapon. It's only 900 points for the first core upgrade...

Also, once you get to chapter 6, Scary Tree in World 2 gives 3 Final Bombs for Spheda. 1506 experience for full clear. I don't know how fast you could do it, but the time trial is 4 minutes, so I imagine you can probably do it in 3:30 or less.

It should be noted that Improved Bombs cost 1k a piece, minimum. Final Bombs... cost a godawful amount of cash.

tjp7154

2010-02-14 06:53:54 pm

#Casual

Naw. I don't plan on buying bombs, or using Spheda. You can recruit Erik, get his IB's, recruit someone else, then after some time, come back to Erik to get more. This way, you use time to your advantage and don't have to waste money or time. I tell you, it takes too long to look for every enemy in a dungeon, then do the spheda.

Rakuen

Edit history:

Rakuen: 2010-02-14 07:09:38 pm

2010-02-14 06:58:41 pm

Weegee Time

Well, the option is still there. You do lose Erik to Chapter 5's Georama, so if you run out of bombs, at least you know where to harvest more. A little time getting 4 minutes of good stage luck is a small price to pay to continue the run.

Actually, if you run out of bombs before that, wouldn't it still be faster to clear a stage and Spheda round than wait for Erik's bombs to respawn?

Edit: Actually, wait... can you take people out of a Georama after you've completed that part of the story, with no ill effects on completing the game?

tjp7154

2010-02-14 07:24:01 pm

#Casual

THAT is what I want to try. In fact, I'd like to totaly BREAK DOWN everything in Sindain and use it in Balance Valley!