Dark Cloud 2 (PS2)

PEACHES_

Edit history:

PEACHES_: 2010-02-14 08:21:19 pm

2010-02-14 08:13:43 pm

I'm just trying to impress you.

What, no monster transformation in your plans? Grin

If you're doing segmented, couldn't you just restart until a clown gives you the coins you need to recruit Donny?

Also, if you tap block after finishing your combo, it will interrupt your cooldown faster than the enemy can get out of hitstun. This should be useful for before you get steve and any monica-only levels, or if you decide to go with name-changing a weapon for monica so you aren't constantly refueling steve. I definitely recommend at least considering the time benefits to having an unstoppable all-Fruit of Eden monica vs having to constantly refuel steve.

edit: I'm pretty sure Georama has to stay completed, since you are stuck in the future on World 7, but that should be easily verifiable Tongue

Rakuen

2010-02-14 08:24:28 pm

Weegee Time

It'll be a while before I get to the end of the game and determine whether it's beatable or not, but as of right now from looking at the FAQs, there are character upgrade items that appear in each town during Chapter 6, and those obviously won't be there if you've broken down the Georama.

tjp7154

2010-02-14 08:51:19 pm

#Casual

You don't have to get all the character upgrades. You want to get by with as little as possible. Also, those chests may still be there, even if the town's not (speculation, I know).

@PEACHES_:

You don't need to recruit Donny. I don't even think it's worth it. Anyway, I've gotten the Dark Coin from a treasure chest in Level 1 before...

Yeah, I use that attack-cancel a lot, but it doesn't work with Steve and his stupid cannonball arms.

Actually concerning breaking down the georama, I just remembered that you can't transfer georama from one area to another Sad

(so that's out)

Rakuen

2010-02-14 08:58:59 pm

Weegee Time

Quote from tjp7154:

You don't have to get all the character upgrades. You want to get by with as little as possible. Also, those chests may still be there, even if the town's not (speculation, I know).

A lot of them are in buildings, so they'll be right out. I did figure you were going for as few upgrades as possible though, since they all take time to get.[/quote]

Quote:

Actually concerning breaking down the georama, I just remembered that you can't transfer georama from one area to another Sad

(so that's out)

Ah, but you can break them down into component materials. You won't get as much back as you put into it, but it's better than nothing.

tjp7154

2010-02-14 09:20:12 pm

#Casual

Actually you're right. I wasn't thinking properly. Never mind what I said. I'll try that sometime in this coming week.

Rakuen

2010-02-14 09:25:47 pm

Weegee Time

And I just did it just now, you can actually preserve some georama objects. The ones that aren't unique to an area will travel with you. I just put everything from World 3 in storage and now it's available in World 4.

edman3d

2010-02-14 11:30:05 pm

ow

I support this speedrun. DC2 was great.

Rakuen

2010-02-15 12:03:56 am

Weegee Time

Quote from tjp7154:

You don't need to recruit Donny. I don't even think it's worth it. Anyway, I've gotten the Dark Coin from a treasure chest in Level 1 before...

Wait, isn't Donny required? I'm halfway through Chapter 4 now, and Donny is required to restore Lab 2. You need that Lab so you can get the Shell Talkie to finish the Chapter, don't you?

tjp7154

2010-02-15 03:55:46 am

#Casual

Once again, whoops. Yeah, I'm not thinking ahead (just checked the faq's).

Usu

2010-02-15 10:09:07 am

Quote from edman3d:

I support this speedrun. DC2 was great.

Yeah ^^ Me too

tjp7154

2010-02-17 03:48:11 pm

#Casual

Any new updates/insights, Rakuen?

(I won't be able to work on anything for another week, so I have no updates.)

Rakuen

2010-02-17 05:16:49 pm

Weegee Time

Sorry, I've been waiting until I finished Chapter 5 to put things together. Here's what I've got so far.

1. Erik's Georama Condition for Hein Rada is optional, so you can keep him for the entire game.
2. Cedric's Condition is optional too. However, it doesn't matter, since he always stays with the train even if you do use him.
3. Borneo is needed for Hein Rada, but he's given to you once you start the Chapter.
4. Gerald is needed as well. His requirement is to obtain a Bell Trigger or better (he'll give you a Trumpet Gun, simply build up once).
5. A third resident is needed, anyone will do if you don't want to use Cedric.
6. You lose Monica for the last few stages of World 5, even more incentive not to use her at all.
7. You have to revisit Luna Lab after finishing Hein Rada to complete Chapter 5. However, I am certain it's faster to simply pack up the Luna Lab Georama (except for piers and boat), move the buildings to Hein Rada, complete it, pack everything back up, and rebuild Luna Lab.

As far as I can tell, it's not required that any Georama stays up for the entire game. If that changes, I'll let you know.

Sorry, I've been waiting until I finished Chapter 5 to put things together.  Here's what I've got so far.

1. Erik's Georama Condition for Hein Rada is optional, so you can keep him for the entire game.
2. Cedric's Condition is optional too.  However, it doesn't matter, since he always stays with the train even if you do use him.
3. Borneo is needed for Hein Rada, but he's given to you once you start the Chapter.
4. Gerald is needed as well.  His requirement is to obtain a Bell Trigger or better (he'll give you a Trumpet Gun, simply build up once).
5. A third resident is needed, anyone will do if you don't want to use Cedric.
6. You lose Monica for the last few stages of World 5, even more incentive not to use her at all.
7. You have to revisit Luna Lab after finishing Hein Rada to complete Chapter 5.  However, I am certain it's faster to simply pack up the Luna Lab Georama (except for piers and boat), move the buildings to Hein Rada, complete it, pack everything back up, and rebuild Luna Lab.

As far as I can tell, it's not required that any Georama stays up for the entire game.  If that changes, I'll let you know.

tjp7154

2010-02-17 10:29:34 pm

#Casual

Ok. Also, the weapon shop (unfortunately requiring Milane for Sindain) in future Sindain sells the Bell Trigger. I've also gotten a Bell Trigger in a chest, but that requires dumb luck to get. I want to avoid having to manually build up the gun.

The gun might also be sold elsewhere in the game. I don't remember at the moment.

Rakuen

2010-02-18 12:00:25 am

Weegee Time

Gerald himself also sells the gun, but you have to have him recruited first.

If you don't manually build up the gun, that means you have to manually build up a sword twice, or abuse the game into giving it to you out of a box. There is something to say about building up the sword though, since it means you'll have a little bit of extra money. You'll need quite a bit to buy the coins for Donny, especially without backtracking. The alternative is to kill enemies with the Ridepod and then switch to Max to give half the experience to the gun, which you'll have to get to +4.

I'm honestly not sure which is better.

Rakuen

2010-02-20 12:18:27 am

Weegee Time

Just so you know what I've been up to, I've spent the last two hours extensively going over the Georamas. I've tried to do the minimum amount of materials required for each area. I can't be remotely finished with it until I've beaten the game, because I have to know how much of the Chapter 7 Georama is required. So, that'll probably take a few days to get through, between that and my other obligations.

tjp7154

2010-02-20 12:21:42 am

#Casual

I'm pretty sure you have to build and place exactly what is on the template for chapter 7. That chapter is unlike the others in this respect.

Rakuen

2010-02-20 10:45:07 am

Weegee Time

Okay, I'll keep that in mind once I get there. Now I've got good news and bad news.

Good News: Just realized you can invent the Bell Trigger. The photos required are Fountain, Phone, and Tree. Materials are 2 Wind Element + 2 Silver Ball + 10 Scrap of Metal. It costs 220 Gilda more to invent than to buy, but you save all the time you would have spent leveling Monica's weapon to get Milane.

Bad News: Chapter 6's Emperor Griffon is going to be a problem. First, he's got thousands of hitpoints. Second, his attacks hit very hard, and there's not a lot of gap between strikes for attacks. My Monica has 52 defense right now and he was hitting for ~40 base and ~18 guarded. Items are not an option, he has immunity to them. The Ridepod isn't an option either, because he has 90% resistance to it. There is no good way to go about getting a powerful ranged weapon, with the strongest you can buy hitting for about 20. This leaves one option, close combat. There are two items you can pickup:

1) Poison Wrench. Invent with Deer Horn, Mushroom, and Sulfur-Colored Juice. The Georama requirements needed to get the last two photos are incredibly easy and take no time at all. Built with 15 Scrap of Metal, 5 Poison, and 3 Smash Crystals, it starts with base attack of 88, which is perfect for taking down Griffon. I actually made one to test this, it hits for upwards of 60 a swing.

2) Claymore. Buy it from G-Weapons in Heim Rada future, it costs 1100 Gilda. Again, this Georama requirement is very easy and shouldn't take any time. It has base attack 89 and uses Monica's 4 swing combo.

You can also get a Digi-Hammer from G-Weapons. It also costs 1100 Gilda. Unfortuantely, it's a hammer, so it's slow, and you're only getting 2 attack power out of using it over the Wrench. I wouldn't do it.

If the Monster FAQ is accurate, Griffon's defense doesn't get much higher in the Chapter 7 battles, so this should be adequate to finish the game with. I'll be hanging on to both of these weapons at base stats to make sure.

Now for the strategy, as far as I can see it.

1) When he's in the air, jump attack him.
2) When he summons his projectiles, run like hell, they HURT.
3) When he attacks on the ground, make two swings and then backflip out of the way.
4) If he ever blocks on the ground, hit the poor fool 4 times (3 if Monica) and then backflip.
5) Continue until dead. At 50% health there'll be a cutscene you can skip.

It's technically possible to knock him down with the 5th hit in a combo (or Monica's 4th) after he blocks, but it isn't consistent. If he doesn't fall down, you will be hit, and probably be close to death with low stats.

Thoughts?

Okay, I'll keep that in mind once I get there.  Now I've got good news and bad news.

Good News: Just realized you can invent the Bell Trigger.  The photos required are Fountain, Phone, and Tree.  Materials are 2 Wind Element + 2 Silver Ball + 10 Scrap of Metal.  It costs 220 Gilda more to invent than to buy, but you save all the time you would have spent leveling Monica's weapon to get Milane.

Bad News: Chapter 6's Emperor Griffon is going to be a problem.  First, he's got thousands of hitpoints.  Second, his attacks hit very hard, and there's not a lot of gap between strikes for attacks.  My Monica has 52 defense right now and he was hitting for ~40 base and ~18 guarded.  Items are not an option, he has immunity to them.  The Ridepod isn't an option either, because he has 90% resistance to it.  There is no good way to go about getting a powerful ranged weapon, with the strongest you can buy hitting for about 20.  This leaves one option, close combat.  There are two items you can pickup:

1) Poison Wrench.  Invent with Deer Horn, Mushroom, and Sulfur-Colored Juice.  The Georama requirements needed to get the last two photos are incredibly easy and take no time at all.  Built with 15 Scrap of Metal, 5 Poison, and 3 Smash Crystals, it starts with base attack of 88, which is perfect for taking down Griffon.  I actually made one to test this, it hits for upwards of 60 a swing.

2) Claymore.  Buy it from G-Weapons in Heim Rada future, it costs 1100 Gilda.  Again, this Georama requirement is very easy and shouldn't take any time.  It has base attack 89 and uses Monica's 4 swing combo.

You can also get a Digi-Hammer from G-Weapons.  It also costs 1100 Gilda.  Unfortuantely, it's a hammer, so it's slow, and you're only getting 2 attack power out of using it over the Wrench.  I wouldn't do it.

If the Monster FAQ is accurate, Griffon's defense doesn't get much higher in the Chapter 7 battles, so this should be adequate to finish the game with.  I'll be hanging on to both of these weapons at base stats to make sure.

Now for the strategy, as far as I can see it.

1) When he's in the air, jump attack him.
2) When he summons his projectiles, run like hell, they HURT.
3) When he attacks on the ground, make two swings and then backflip out of the way.
4) If he ever blocks on the ground, hit the poor fool 4 times (3 if Monica) and then backflip.
5) Continue until dead.  At 50% health there'll be a cutscene you can skip.

It's technically possible to knock him down with the 5th hit in a combo (or Monica's 4th) after he blocks, but it isn't consistent.  If he doesn't fall down, you will be hit, and probably be close to death with low stats.

Thoughts?

Rakuen

2010-02-26 11:34:08 pm

Weegee Time

Okay, I'm at the end of the game now. It's time for another round of Good News/Bad News.

Good News: You ARE required to get 100% on the Chapter 7 Georama, as far as I can tell. However, you don't need to make every single Georama piece available. Specifically, you don't need 4 Flower Beds, 1 Silver Bench, 2 Roads, and 14 Petal Streams. This saves you a little over 2000 Gelda in materials, not to mention the time placing them. Also, the positioning is pretty loose so long as everything goes in the correct quadrants. I could make a video or something of my Georama to show you what it ends up looking like.

Bad News 1: You're realistically going to need an upgraded Ridepod. There's simply too many floors and the enemies have too much health to rely on Improved Bombs. This even goes for as far back as Chapter 5.

Bad News 2: The final chain of bosses are going to be really hard. I'll go through them in order.

Griffon Phase 1: He's flying and he never comes down. This means that he can't be hit by melee attacks or items. This leaves your characters' ranged weapons and the Ridepod. Ranged weapons leave you stuck to one place, and even if you had a suitable weapon to use (the best you can buy is still no match) there is no way in hell you're going to be able to outrun his arrows, so that is right out. The Ridepod has the advantage of continuous movement, and you're going to need it. You'll need at least a Rank 3 ranged weapon, because Griffon only takes 10% damage from the Ridepod. You'll also need the Propeller legs. I've been using the Missile Pod, but the Barrel Cannon works as well, just a little slower. Shoot him until he dies, it should take a little under 3 clips of Missiles or 4 clips of Cannons.

Griffon Phase 2/3: He's on the ground now, and very vulnerable to explosives. Each Improved Bomb does over 300 damage. I haven't managed to land every single bomb yet (15/20), but after your full compliment of 20, he will either be dead or almost completely gone. In Phase 2, he kind of lumbers around and takes swings or jumping slashes at you, he should be pretty easy to dodge. In Phase 3, he speeds up quite a bit, and starts using combo swings, jump attacks, and an AoE shockwave, all of which can inflict Stop.

Miniboss Rush: Back into the Ridepod for this, I really hope you've still got fuel left because you'll need it. Even if you bring the bomb maker with you, you won't have nearly enough explosives for this, not to mention that you need the mobility. Spam your ranged weapon of choice, but on this phase, the Barrel Cannon is generally better. Smaller targets tend to be missed by missiles, and two of the bosses are Undead so they're weak to the Cannon.

Dark Element: You've come this far only for the deck to get stacked against you. He is immune to items AND the Ridepod, so now you're tied to melee attacks. At 80 defense, I was able to block the first two swings of his combo for 0, while the finisher hit for about 50. Then you'll get two-three swings before you have to block again. I think you can backflip to avoid the finisher, but I haven't gotten the timing down yet. Occasionally, he'll try and run away while shooting arrows, these hit for 80 I think, and can inflict a random status. They are very hard to dodge on foot. For his third attack, he will teleport away and charge up a massive energy beam. If this hits you, your character dies, and you will probably have to reset.

The biggest problem with this battle is the time limit. You have 5 minutes to kill him. He will also periodically shift vulnerability between Max and Monica, so you must have them both alive at ALL times and hitting him as much as you can. The first time I fought him I was screwing around figuring out what would work, now that I know it's narrowed down to melee, I have an idea. Even if it works though, you're still going to need an insipid amount of luck to beat this guy with minimal gear.

Okay, I'm at the end of the game now.  It's time for another round of Good News/Bad News.

Good News: You ARE required to get 100% on the Chapter 7 Georama, as far as I can tell.  However, you don't need to make every single Georama piece available.  Specifically, you don't need 4 Flower Beds, 1 Silver Bench, 2 Roads, and 14 Petal Streams.  This saves you a little over 2000 Gelda in materials, not to mention the time placing them.  Also, the positioning is pretty loose so long as everything goes in the correct quadrants.  I could make a video or something of my Georama to show you what it ends up looking like.

Bad News 1: You're realistically going to need an upgraded Ridepod.  There's simply too many floors and the enemies have too much health to rely on Improved Bombs.  This even goes for as far back as Chapter 5.

Bad News 2: The final chain of bosses are going to be really hard.  I'll go through them in order.

Griffon Phase 1: He's flying and he never comes down.  This means that he can't be hit by melee attacks or items.  This leaves your characters' ranged weapons and the Ridepod.  Ranged weapons leave you stuck to one place, and even if you had a suitable weapon to use (the best you can buy is still no match) there is no way in hell you're going to be able to outrun his arrows, so that is right out.  The Ridepod has the advantage of continuous movement, and you're going to need it.  You'll need at least a Rank 3 ranged weapon, because Griffon only takes 10% damage from the Ridepod.  You'll also need the Propeller legs.  I've been using the Missile Pod, but the Barrel Cannon works as well, just a little slower.  Shoot him until he dies, it should take a little under 3 clips of Missiles or 4 clips of Cannons.

Griffon Phase 2/3: He's on the ground now, and very vulnerable to explosives.  Each Improved Bomb does over 300 damage.  I haven't managed to land every single bomb yet (15/20), but after your full compliment of 20, he will either be dead or almost completely gone.  In Phase 2, he kind of lumbers around and takes swings or jumping slashes at you, he should be pretty easy to dodge.  In Phase 3, he speeds up quite a bit, and starts using combo swings, jump attacks, and an AoE shockwave, all of which can inflict Stop.

Miniboss Rush: Back into the Ridepod for this, I really hope you've still got fuel left because you'll need it.  Even if you bring the bomb maker with you, you won't have nearly enough explosives for this, not to mention that you need the mobility.  Spam your ranged weapon of choice, but on this phase, the Barrel Cannon is generally better.  Smaller targets tend to be missed by missiles, and two of the bosses are Undead so they're weak to the Cannon.

Dark Element: You've come this far only for the deck to get stacked against you.  He is immune to items AND the Ridepod, so now you're tied to melee attacks.  At 80 defense, I was able to block the first two swings of his combo for 0, while the finisher hit for about 50.  Then you'll get two-three swings before you have to block again.  I think you can backflip to avoid the finisher, but I haven't gotten the timing down yet.  Occasionally, he'll try and run away while shooting arrows, these hit for 80 I think, and can inflict a random status.  They are very hard to dodge on foot.  For his third attack, he will teleport away and charge up a massive energy beam.  If this hits you, your character dies, and you will probably have to reset.

The biggest problem with this battle is the time limit.  You have 5 minutes to kill him.  He will also periodically shift vulnerability between Max and Monica, so you must have them both alive at ALL times and hitting him as much as you can.  The first time I fought him I was screwing around figuring out what would work, now that I know it's narrowed down to melee, I have an idea.  Even if it works though, you're still going to need an insipid amount of luck to beat this guy with minimal gear.

tjp7154

2010-02-27 08:10:42 am

#Casual

Ok, very nice work.

The bad news 1 and 2 aren't really that bad. You get a lot of experience just using the ride pod for game play. I am up to chapter 4 right now and I was easily able to get improved core and 4 defense packs (not calculated, just for fun) for the ride pod.

It seems that roller foot still isn't fast enough to be useful for travel by itself to seek out enemies (talking fuel consumption versus ground covered). I think what might work is having the roller foot on standby and the buggy for quick travel between enemies.

The biggest problem I'm having with the ride pod is targeting a specific enemy and not accidentally changing targeting to another while trying to get the gate keeper enemy. This will probably boil down to skill and practice.

A choice that we need to make: Barrel Cannon, or Nova Cannon.

I remember that in my first play-through that got to the end boss I used the ride pod with nova laser and buggy for all the bosses all the way from the Chapter 5 bosses to up to and including Griffon. I don't remember how long the battles took, but I do know that I was able to avoid a lot of damage (I was intimidated back them).

For the georama, I still want to try to reuse stuff from previous areas. Maybe to the point of actually breaking down all the elements, when feasible.

For Dark Element, how often does he switch character vulnerabilities? Can that, or the time in between switches be manipulated?

--
Right now I'm in Chapter 4 (for fun right now). The dungeons are stupidly easy, the bosses even more so, not requiring leveled up weapons. I was able to use Max's classic gun to inflict enough damage on Shingala to make him open his mouth. I remember that the boss is hit by the Shigura, not your weapon, so that's easy enough. It was also easy to run past enemies, even the corsairs and captains; the fish (forgot the name) being the ones you have to watch out for.

Georama was stupid easy to build to fulfill the requirements of the game. It also helped that I had keys from a previous run, which netted two coins and another box of keys...

So that's where I am right now. Mid-March I'll have to take another forced break because of work.

Ok, very nice work.

The bad news 1 and 2 aren't really that bad.  You get a lot of experience just using the ride pod for game play.  I am up to chapter 4 right now and I was easily able to get improved core and 4 defense packs (not calculated, just for fun) for the ride pod.

It seems that roller foot still isn't fast enough to be useful for travel by itself to seek out enemies (talking fuel consumption versus ground covered).  I think what might work is having the roller foot on standby and the buggy for quick travel between enemies.

The biggest problem I'm having with the ride pod is targeting a specific enemy and not accidentally changing targeting to another while trying to get the gate keeper enemy.  This will probably boil down to skill and practice.

A choice that we need to make: Barrel Cannon, or Nova Cannon.

I remember that in my first play-through that got to the end boss I used the ride pod with nova laser and buggy for all the bosses all the way from the Chapter 5 bosses to up to and including Griffon.  I don't remember how long the battles took, but I do know that I was able to avoid a lot of damage (I was intimidated back them).

For the georama, I still want to try to reuse stuff from previous areas.  Maybe to the point of actually breaking down all the elements, when feasible.

For Dark Element, how often does he switch character vulnerabilities?  Can that, or the time in between switches be manipulated?

--
Right now I'm in Chapter 4 (for fun right now).  The dungeons are stupidly easy, the bosses even more so, not requiring leveled up weapons.  I was able to use Max's classic gun to inflict enough damage on Shingala to make him open his mouth.  I remember that the boss is hit by the Shigura, not your weapon, so that's easy enough.  It was also easy to run past enemies, even the corsairs and captains; the fish (forgot the name) being the ones you have to watch out for.

Georama was stupid easy to build to fulfill the requirements of the game.  It also helped that I had keys from a previous run, which netted two coins and another box of keys...

So that's where I am right now.  Mid-March I'll have to take another forced break because of work.

Rakuen

2010-02-27 10:53:23 am

Weegee Time

Quote from tjp7154:

The biggest problem I'm having with the ride pod is targeting a specific enemy and not accidentally changing targeting to another while trying to get the gate keeper enemy. This will probably boil down to skill and practice.

Yeah, as far as I know the only thing that will break your targeting is moving too far away, or hitting back+O, so it's just a matter of finding the best range for your target.

Quote:

A choice that we need to make: Barrel Cannon, or Nova Cannon.

I grabbed the free Nova Cannon from Chapter 4, and started using it immediately. I didn't really mess with it for Griffon though. I'll try and do some time trial tests for the first phase to see which works best out of Nova Cannon 1 and Barrel Cannon 3. NC2 is about 4500 Gelda if that fits into your plans at all.

Quote:

For the georama, I still want to try to reuse stuff from previous areas. Maybe to the point of actually breaking down all the elements, when feasible.

Yeah, I did a preliminary run of that. I'll try and get around to doing it all again to confirm my numbers and make sure everything works.

Quote:

For Dark Element, how often does he switch character vulnerabilities? Can that, or the time in between switches be manipulated?

It seems pretty random to me, but there may be a pattern somewhere. He very definitely won't change characters and then immediately switch back again. He also will ALWAYS change characters after his teleport-beam attack.

On that note, some improved boss strategies:

Griffon 1: I managed to do it only getting hit once. If you're standing near him when the arrows are flying, you'll get pummeled. So, stay close to him when he's just idling, and as soon as he begins to open fire, make a big strafing circle around the arena, staying on the inside of the pillars. Even for the long version of his attack, he should finish it before you complete the circle. As soon as you see the arrows stop, rush back next to him. Repeat until dead.

Griffon 2/3: 20 bombs will kill him if they all hit. That's a fairly big if though, and it might be good to bring a few stones as insurance.

Dark Element: I beat him on my third try with a level 0 Poison Wrench and Claymore. When you complete the Chapter 7 Georama, you get a Sun Stone and Moon Stone. Synth both stones to Monica's Claymore. Her attack is faster and therefore more useful in this fight. For Max's weapon, synth any two items that increases attack power (I had a Diamond).

All three times I fought him he started with Monica. The goal is to hit him twice and then backflip before he begins his combo swings. If he decides to do another combo after finishing, he always comes to you, so that makes things easier. Monica can do this consistently without taking damage, Max can't though because he's slower. I haven't quite figured out what to do with Max yet. When he uses his arrows, blocking it will either do 0 or 22 damage (usually 0). While he's shooting them, you should always be trying to move toward him and block before the arrow hits. When he teleports for the beam attack, move to the other side of the arena and hope he doesn't tag you. I beat him with 5 seconds remaining.

You're going to need some health recovery items for this because it's very difficult to do everything perfectly. You can get 20 Crunchy Bread for recruiting Aunt Polly, and these restore 100% of your health. It's about 4 minutes to recruit her, so it's up to you whether you want to do it. You can also try and get lucky in the Chapter 7 dungeon, as the boxes sometimes have 3-5 Premium Chicken that also restore 100%. I used 15 healing items from start to finish, but I'm sure it can probably be done with less.

[quote="tjp7154"]The biggest problem I'm having with the ride pod is targeting a specific enemy and not accidentally changing targeting to another while trying to get the gate keeper enemy.  This will probably boil down to skill and practice.[/quote]
Yeah, as far as I know the only thing that will break your targeting is moving too far away, or hitting back+O, so it's just a matter of finding the best range for your target.

[quote]A choice that we need to make: Barrel Cannon, or Nova Cannon.[/quote]
I grabbed the free Nova Cannon from Chapter 4, and started using it immediately.  I didn't really mess with it for Griffon though.  I'll try and do some time trial tests for the first phase to see which works best out of Nova Cannon 1 and Barrel Cannon 3.  NC2 is about 4500 Gelda if that fits into your plans at all.

[quote]For the georama, I still want to try to reuse stuff from previous areas.  Maybe to the point of actually breaking down all the elements, when feasible.[/quote]
Yeah, I did a preliminary run of that.  I'll try and get around to doing it all again to confirm my numbers and make sure everything works.

[quote]For Dark Element, how often does he switch character vulnerabilities?  Can that, or the time in between switches be manipulated?[/quote]
It seems pretty random to me, but there may be a pattern somewhere.  He very definitely won't change characters and then immediately switch back again.  He also will ALWAYS change characters after his teleport-beam attack.

On that note, some improved boss strategies:

Griffon 1: I managed to do it only getting hit once.  If you're standing near him when the arrows are flying, you'll get pummeled.  So, stay close to him when he's just idling, and as soon as he begins to open fire, make a big strafing circle around the arena, staying on the inside of the pillars.  Even for the long version of his attack, he should finish it before you complete the circle.  As soon as you see the arrows stop, rush back next to him.  Repeat until dead.

Griffon 2/3: 20 bombs will kill him if they all hit.  That's a fairly big if though, and it might be good to bring a few stones as insurance.

Dark Element: I beat him on my third try with a level 0 Poison Wrench and Claymore.  When you complete the Chapter 7 Georama, you get a Sun Stone and Moon Stone.  Synth both stones to Monica's Claymore.  Her attack is faster and therefore more useful in this fight.  For Max's weapon, synth any two items that increases attack power (I had a Diamond).

All three times I fought him he started with Monica.  The goal is to hit him twice and then backflip before he begins his combo swings.  If he decides to do another combo after finishing, he always comes to [b]you[/b], so that makes things easier.  Monica can do this consistently without taking damage, Max can't though because he's slower.  I haven't quite figured out what to do with Max yet.  When he uses his arrows, blocking it will either do 0 or 22 damage (usually 0).  While he's shooting them, you should always be trying to move toward him and block before the arrow hits.  When he teleports for the beam attack, move to the other side of the arena and hope he doesn't tag you.  I beat him with 5 seconds remaining.

You're going to need some health recovery items for this because it's very difficult to do everything perfectly.  You can get 20 Crunchy Bread for recruiting Aunt Polly, and these restore 100% of your health.  It's about 4 minutes to recruit her, so it's up to you whether you want to do it.  You can also try and get lucky in the Chapter 7 dungeon, as the boxes sometimes have 3-5 Premium Chicken that also restore 100%.  I used 15 healing items from start to finish, but I'm sure it can probably be done with less.

Rakuen

2010-03-06 10:28:08 am

Weegee Time

Barrel Cannon III vs Nova Cannon I

Alright, I finally did a bit of testing for this. For the general dungeon trash, I went to the final floor of Moon Flower Palace. I took down each enemy several times, and the Barrel Cannon either met or beat the Nova Cannon time on each one. The difference in time depends upon the enemies total defense. The closer the two weapons are pushed together in damage, the greater the difference. Makes sense since the Barrel fires at 2-3x the rate of the Nova Cannon.

The same thing holds especially true for the final boss. If you're firing right at the torso, the Barrels win hands down. But, I discovered something else. The final boss has the three Atamalias circling around him, and hitting them DOES cause damage to Griffon's health. About 10x more to be specific. The Barrel rounds can track these and hit them with good success, turning a 3 minute fight into about a 20 second slaughter. The Nova can't come close to competing, it's just too slow.

Georama

Two things I can think of that I need before I can do anything with this:

1) Do you intend to get Milane to buy a Bell Trigger, or just invent one?
2) Are you going to be able to buy/obtain the coins for Donny by the end of Chapter 2?

Barrel Cannon III vs Nova Cannon I

Alright, I finally did a bit of testing for this.  For the general dungeon trash, I went to the final floor of Moon Flower Palace.  I took down each enemy several times, and the Barrel Cannon either met or beat the Nova Cannon time on each one.  The difference in time depends upon the enemies total defense.  The closer the two weapons are pushed together in damage, the greater the difference.  Makes sense since the Barrel fires at 2-3x the rate of the Nova Cannon.

The same thing holds especially true for the final boss.  If you're firing right at the torso, the Barrels win hands down.  But, I discovered something else.  The final boss has the three Atamalias circling around him, and hitting them DOES cause damage to Griffon's health.  About 10x more to be specific.  The Barrel rounds can track these and hit them with good success, turning a 3 minute fight into about a 20 second slaughter.  The Nova can't come close to competing, it's just too slow.

Georama

Two things I can think of that I need before I can do anything with this:

1) Do you intend to get Milane to buy a Bell Trigger, or just invent one?
2) Are you going to be able to buy/obtain the coins for Donny by the end of Chapter 2?

tjp7154

2010-03-06 10:40:54 am

#Casual

I will probably buy the coins, unless I happen to get at least one of them in a chest.

As for the bell trigger, I was just thinking of buying one, but won't know until I test that...

which might be in a month, since I'll be really busy with work for this month.

We'll see...

tjp7154

Edit history:

tjp7154: 2011-02-07 02:31:21 pm

2011-02-07 02:28:04 pm

#Casual

Well, after a loong hiatus, and more specifically the SDA Marathon 2011 -- this is now my main project!

I've come up with an incomplete rough draft script all the way up to 5, but running through it yesterday and rereading the previous posts in this thread (should have done a while ago...), I need much more work.

Couple of notes:

-I will NOT be playing Chapter 8, since that is optional.
-The final boss switches vulnerability between Max and Monica, and (according the GameFAQs) between ranged and close-in weapons.
-Not all georama requirements need to be met to beat the game.
-I plan on upgrading the ridepod enough to be able to use the Nova cannon you get from completing 100% Veniccio (Ch. 4) requirements for the mini-boss in Ch. 5 (Death Ark)
- Do I need to? Will any ranged weapon do?
-Most non-georama items I get out of chests will be sold to get enough money to buy required georama elements to build the minimum requirement for each area
-I think I should get every treasure chest along the way because this is my main source of income.
-My first thought is to collect all the collectable gems I can get within the any% requirements, because they are 500gilda each. I may use a couple for building Monica's weapon up, mind you.

A big decision is whether or not to try to level up Monica's sword enough to use that against the final boss and hope I make it within the 5 min. limit without using Max, but I'm not so sure that is possible with the 5 minute time limit.

What I REALLLLY need to know is the exact vulnerabilities of Gaspard (Ch. 3) and Dark Element (Final Boss) in terms of Fire, Chill, Beast, etc. as this will determine exactly how I level Monica/Max up.

Also, two big decisions:

-Whether or not to get 40 medals to get the ultimate-leveled weapon for Max/Monica. I say "Max/Monica" because it might work to level up Monica's sword up to some point, then just give max his best weapon from the name-change ticket. It's either I use the name-change ticket, or I hope the final boss will favorably be vulnerable to Monica's weapon enough to die within 5 minutes...

-Whether it's feasible to use the lure duplication glitch to get infinite money. The only way I can see it feasible is if I ignore the chests from when Finny Frenzy starts (late Chapter 4, when it becomes available to recruit Olivie) till the end of the game. Somehow I think this is pretty feasible, but ONLY in a segmented run, which thankfully I'm doing. Of course it might also be feasible in a single-segment, assuming it's easy enough to win the Beginner Contest

Reading up on previous posts:
-I want to avoid recruiting Milane and instead invent the bell trigger to recruit Gerald for Chapter 5's requirement
-I was recently building 100% for each area (forgetting what my original goal was, dur) and need to go over my script to account for that. It's quite a bit of an overhaul, especially for everything I need to take into account (georama, levelling, who to visit/recruit and when)

Area-specific notes

Palm Brinks

-I'll only take the pictures that are required to advance the game and build weapons/items in the future
-I am considering whether or not it's beneficial to just take 100 pictures to get the diamond from Donny. I think it might help Monica's weapon-upgrading...
-I need to manipulate a holy water in the dungeon to save a little less than a minute getting it from him before recruiting Gordon (required)

Sindain

-Since I no longer plan on recruiting Milane, I no longer need to just level up cyclone and beast to upgrade the Gladius twice. Sooo, I must upgrade wisely, and this really depends on Gaspard and the final boss, since my plan (right now) is to use the Ridepod everywhere else for the bosses starting from mid-Chapter 5 (Death Ark boss)
-My character recruitment now does NOT include Milaine or Polly. Polly is now an issue. I need a roasted chestnut to recruit Ferdinand who is necessary to complete Chapter 3. Chestnuts are ONLY sold in the Mushroom Burgers Shop which isn't there unless Polly is recruited. I can only get around this if I get a RANDOM chestnut from a chest in Sindain, which is very feasible, but RANDOM. This means I need to do luck-manipulation in the segmented run for this. For a single-segment, I can't rely on that luck -- good thing I'm doing a segmented run -- first.
-I now fish for another fish while I'm getting the Priscleen for the big fish -- very easy to do, and it's used for the aquarium needed in Ch. 4 (Veniccio). Hmm, this might be where I can get my fish for the Finny Frenzy as well (to get Olivie and initiate the lure duplication glitch, but only if it's found to be worth it)

RECRUITMENT DRIVE

-Gordon (must be first)
-Ferdinand, Adel, Gerald (Max's house)
-I will NOT recruit Stewart (don't think so at least)
-No Blinkhorn hopefully (stupid race!)
-Parn, after Sindain is finished, on the way to Dr. Dell at Chapter 3
-Dr. Dell, at start of Chapter 3
-Claire
-Mayor Need, only if it's worth getting name-change tag
-Olivie, only if it's worth using the lure duplication glitch to get loads o' gilda

Balance Valley
-will hopefully not need Sheriff Blinkhorn
-I only need Parn (for the Tool shop with the starglass), Ferdinand (Lao Chao's Bistro), and Priest Bruno (Starlight Temple)

Veniccio
-Sheesh, 50 culture points needed to complte this -- I might as well go for 100% and get the nova cannon while I'm at it (it's the reward for 100%).
-I don't think it will be a problem to get enough money for the two coins Donny needs, since I'll be building less georama.
-It's actually very easy to get Shingala to open his mouth -- just a couple of blasts from the barrel cannon.

Heim Rada
-Um, wow -- I don't know why I thought Rufio was needed for this, but I'm thankfully wrong! One less person to worry about!
-Well, since I haven't played through it yet, more notes to come Wink

Yeah, still this is going along very nicely.

Well, after a loong hiatus, and more specifically the SDA Marathon 2011 -- this is now my main project!

I've come up with an incomplete rough draft script all the way up to 5, but running through it yesterday and rereading the previous posts in this thread (should have done a while ago...), I need much more work.

Couple of notes:

-I will NOT be playing Chapter 8, since that is optional.
-The final boss switches vulnerability between Max and Monica, and (according the GameFAQs) between ranged and close-in weapons.
-Not all georama requirements need to be met to beat the game.
-I plan on upgrading the ridepod enough to be able to use the Nova cannon you get from completing 100% Veniccio (Ch. 4) requirements for the mini-boss in Ch. 5 (Death Ark)
                      - Do I need to? Will any ranged weapon do?
-Most non-georama items I get out of chests will be sold to get enough money to buy required georama elements to build the minimum requirement for each area
-I think I should get every treasure chest along the way because this is my main source of income.
-My first thought is to collect all the collectable gems I can get within the any% requirements, because they are 500gilda each.  I may use a couple for building Monica's weapon up, mind you.

A big decision is whether or not to try to level up Monica's sword enough to use that against the final boss and hope I make it within the 5 min. limit without using Max, but I'm not so sure that is possible with the 5 minute time limit.

What I REALLLLY need to know is the exact vulnerabilities of Gaspard (Ch. 3) and Dark Element (Final Boss) in terms of Fire, Chill, Beast, etc. as this will determine exactly how I level Monica/Max up.

Also, two big decisions:

-Whether or not to get 40 medals to get the ultimate-leveled weapon for Max/Monica.  I say "Max/Monica" because it might work to level up Monica's sword up to some point, then just give max his best weapon from the name-change ticket.  It's either I use the name-change ticket, or I hope the final boss will favorably be vulnerable to Monica's weapon enough to die within 5 minutes...

-Whether it's feasible to use the lure duplication glitch to get infinite money.  The only way I can see it feasible is if I ignore the chests from when Finny Frenzy starts (late Chapter 4, when it becomes available to recruit Olivie) till the end of the game.  Somehow I think this is pretty feasible, but ONLY in a segmented run, which thankfully I'm doing.  Of course it might also be feasible in a single-segment, assuming it's easy enough to win the Beginner Contest

Reading up on previous posts:
-I want to avoid recruiting Milane and instead invent the bell trigger to recruit Gerald for Chapter 5's requirement
-I was recently building 100% for each area (forgetting what my original goal was, dur) and need to go over my script to account for that.  It's quite a bit of an overhaul, especially for everything I need to take into account (georama, levelling, who to visit/recruit and when)

Area-specific notes

Palm Brinks

-I'll only take the pictures that are required to advance the game and build weapons/items in the future
-I am considering whether or not it's beneficial to just take 100 pictures to get the diamond from Donny.  I think it might help Monica's weapon-upgrading...
-I need to manipulate a holy water in the dungeon to save a little less than a minute getting it from him before recruiting Gordon (required)

Sindain

-Since I no longer plan on recruiting Milane, I no longer need to just level up cyclone and beast to upgrade the Gladius twice.  Sooo, I must upgrade wisely, and this really depends on Gaspard and the final boss, since my plan (right now) is to use the Ridepod everywhere else for the bosses starting from mid-Chapter 5 (Death Ark boss)
-My character recruitment now does NOT include Milaine or Polly.  Polly is now an issue.  I need a roasted chestnut to recruit Ferdinand who is necessary to complete Chapter 3.  Chestnuts are ONLY sold in the Mushroom Burgers Shop which isn't there unless Polly is recruited.  I can only get around this if I get a RANDOM chestnut from a chest in Sindain, which is very feasible, but RANDOM.  This means I need to do luck-manipulation in the segmented run for this.  For a single-segment, I can't rely on that luck -- good thing I'm doing a segmented run -- first.
-I now fish for another fish while I'm getting the Priscleen for the big fish -- very easy to do, and it's used for the aquarium needed in Ch. 4 (Veniccio).  Hmm, this might be where I can get my fish for the Finny Frenzy as well (to get Olivie and initiate the lure duplication glitch, but only if it's found to be worth it)

RECRUITMENT DRIVE

-Gordon (must be first)
-Ferdinand, Adel, Gerald (Max's house)
-I will NOT recruit Stewart (don't think so at least)
-No Blinkhorn hopefully (stupid race!)
-Parn, after Sindain is finished, on the way to Dr. Dell at Chapter 3
-Dr. Dell, at start of Chapter 3
-Claire
-Mayor Need, only if it's worth getting name-change tag
-Olivie, only if it's worth using the lure duplication glitch to get loads o' gilda

Balance Valley
-will hopefully not need Sheriff Blinkhorn
-I only need Parn (for the Tool shop with the starglass), Ferdinand (Lao Chao's Bistro), and Priest Bruno (Starlight Temple)

Veniccio
-Sheesh, 50 culture points needed to complte this -- I might as well go for 100% and get the nova cannon while I'm at it (it's the reward for 100%).
-I don't think it will be a problem to get enough money for the two coins Donny needs, since I'll be building less georama.
-It's actually very easy to get Shingala to open his mouth -- just a couple of blasts from the barrel cannon.

Heim Rada
-Um, wow -- I don't know why I thought Rufio was needed for this, but I'm thankfully wrong!  One less person to worry about!
-Well, since I haven't played through it yet, more notes to come ;)

Yeah, still this is going along very nicely.

Rakuen

2011-02-07 04:33:43 pm

Weegee Time

Quote:

-The final boss switches vulnerability between Max and Monica, and (according the GameFAQs) between ranged and close-in weapons.

As far as I can remember, this is not true. I never fired my ranged weapons during the fight that I beat him.

Quote:

-I plan on upgrading the ridepod enough to be able to use the Nova cannon you get from completing 100% Veniccio (Ch. 4) requirements for the mini-boss in Ch. 5 (Death Ark)
- Do I need to? Will any ranged weapon do?

Barrel Cannon III is better for the final boss rush because it can track the little crystals in the first encounter. Hitting them does FAR more damage. Also, a few of the mini-bosses in the rush are weak against it because it deals Exorcism damage. You can make it in Chapter 4. I'm not sure how this would change Death Ark, if at all.

Quote:

-Whether or not to get 40 medals to get the ultimate-leveled weapon for Max/Monica.

As far as the tags are concerned, I definitely beat the boss with the level 0 Poison Wrench and Claymore. It'll be a close fight, but it's possible. It'll take you a looooooong time to build up 40 medals. Every medal in the game except for No-Damage Clear requires you to kill all enemies on the floor, and that's a tremendous amount of time.

Quote:

-My character recruitment now does NOT include Milaine or Polly. Polly is now an issue.

I would say get Polly. Not only does it save you the headaches of luck manipulation, but it also gives you 20 Crunchy Breads which are full heals. I'm sure you'll find some use for those.

That's all I can think of for the moment.

[quote]-The final boss switches vulnerability between Max and Monica, and (according the GameFAQs) between ranged and close-in weapons.[/quote]
As far as I can remember, this is not true.  I never fired my ranged weapons during the fight that I beat him.

[quote]-I plan on upgrading the ridepod enough to be able to use the Nova cannon you get from completing 100% Veniccio (Ch. 4) requirements for the mini-boss in Ch. 5 (Death Ark)
- Do I need to? Will any ranged weapon do?[/quote]
Barrel Cannon III is better for the final boss rush because it can track the little crystals in the first encounter.  Hitting them does FAR more damage.  Also, a few of the mini-bosses in the rush are weak against it because it deals Exorcism damage.  You can make it in Chapter 4.  I'm not sure how this would change Death Ark, if at all.

[quote]-Whether or not to get 40 medals to get the ultimate-leveled weapon for Max/Monica.[/quote]
As far as the tags are concerned, I definitely beat the boss with the level 0 Poison Wrench and Claymore.  It'll be a close fight, but it's possible.  It'll take you a looooooong time to build up 40 medals.  Every medal in the game except for No-Damage Clear requires you to kill all enemies on the floor, and that's a tremendous amount of time.

[quote]-My character recruitment now does NOT include Milaine or Polly.  Polly is now an issue.[/quote]
I would say get Polly.  Not only does it save you the headaches of luck manipulation, but it also gives you 20 Crunchy Breads which are full heals.  I'm sure you'll find some use for those.

That's all I can think of for the moment.

dballin

2011-02-07 04:36:24 pm

Balls jerky

Yeah I'm pretty sure I only used ranged weapons and beat Griffon so I don't know where that's coming from.