Antichamber

Patashu

2013-02-04 05:44:36 pm

How does 'No Esc' sound as a category? Having to take a "linear" path through the game.

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

2013-02-04 06:02:41 pm

Claimh Happy

Yeah, that's what I mentioned in my last post. It's a fun route. I don't know if SDA would consider it an arbitrary category or not, but I certainly intend to do some runs of it either way.

z1mb0bw4y

2013-02-04 06:04:54 pm

Gets the cake.

Quote from Marche_Fighter_Paladin:

Yeah, that's what I mentioned in my last post. It's a fun route. I don't know if SDA would consider it an arbitrary category or not, but I certainly intend to do some runs of it either way.

It shouldn't be arbitrary, Zelda games use no Save+Quit as a category distinction.

JoshMelnick

2013-02-04 06:06:09 pm

The question is whether Esc is akin to Save+Quit or a core game mechanic, because I think there is a valid argument on both sides. That said, I think No Esc is a fundamentally different enough kind of run to make it non-arbitrary.

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

2013-02-04 06:19:36 pm

Claimh Happy

On one hand, S+Q is used to cut out travel time (and bypass certain puzzles) just like in Zelda. On the other hand, Zelda places you based on where you were, Antichamber places you in a Hub where you can warp freely.

On the third hand, this doesn't have to be the same thing to be a different category and it makes a drastic enough difference in gameplay to be worth doing, imo.

noclip

2013-02-04 07:08:03 pm

A no-escape run could only be low %, since the escape key panel forces you to use it. Portal-filling wouldn't work there since it could only get you back to the stairs (you'd need to portal-fill the entrance to the first stairs as well, but then you would never reach the escape key panel in the first place).

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

2013-02-04 07:46:12 pm

Claimh Happy

It'd be any%, not low%. Well, I guess it could be either, but honestly Low% seems pretty bland in this game. I won't stop anyone from doing it, but I certainly won't be doing it myself.

Endless

Edit history:

Endless: 2013-02-04 08:06:30 pm

Endless: 2013-02-04 08:03:04 pm

Endless: 2013-02-04 07:59:41 pm

2013-02-04 07:59:11 pm

Qbic - if you consider speedrunning a science, then it would be unethical to withhold your findings.

I also agree that no esc should be a separate category; it would require an entirely different route and playstyle, and the departure from the frantic teleporting action of a straight run would be a lot more inviting to folks less familiar with the game.

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

2013-02-04 08:12:57 pm

Claimh Happy

So yeah, I really can't tell if it's worth getting the red gun in any% no ESC. I've done some timing and it seems like it save a bit of time to get it, but I'm also really slow at certain parts without the red gun so I can't really tell.

123zc

2013-02-04 09:07:29 pm

It seems like we're getting to the point where seconds matter. Here's a quick video I whipped up comparing the elevator jump I use compared to the one most others are using. It gives you just enough height to reach the platform.

Upside: Saves a little bit of time
Downside: Hard to do

All you have to do is jump on top of the place where the elevator and floor meet, and immediately slide off onto the platform.

The way I do it is quite simple. I line myself up with the edge, jump, and as soon as I hit the floor, hold the direction towards the elevator.

ChocoPoptart

2013-02-04 09:34:16 pm

If we're going to be talking about small timesavers then I've got one. While going over the bridge with the 'bees' while heading towards the yellow gun you can start running right around the start of the bridge. If you do this though you'll need to make two semi-precise jumps while the platform is disintegrating. It's semi difficult and not extremely consistent, but can be about 80% consistent with some practice. It should save about a second or two of walking time.

123zc

2013-02-04 09:54:53 pm

Even with my imperfect pulsing and badly timed running, it still appears to be a bit faster than the other method I had in mind, and certainly faster than the current one (which I can't really do well :v ).

qbicfeet

2013-02-05 01:17:14 am

Quote from 123zc:

Here's a quick video I whipped up comparing the elevator jump I use compared to the one most others are using. It gives you just enough height to reach the platform.

I discovered that too when repeatedly practicing The Chase yesterday. The easiest way to measure it is by clinging to either wall. It works on the second springboard (the one after the two red puzzles) too.

fawwles

Edit history:

fawwles: 2013-02-05 09:04:09 am

fawwles: 2013-02-05 08:54:04 am

2013-02-05 08:49:32 am

Sub-5:00 complete

Doesn't use the new springboard or bird/bee/ball bridge jumping tactics, lower than 4:50 is going to require a more or less flawless run I think.

123zc

2013-02-05 08:58:21 am

Congrats on the run!

I just tried, the wall method works pretty well. This elevator trick works on every elevator that has flat ground around it as far as I know. For elevators that don't, there's another trick I learned. It doesn't really have a practical use anywhere considering I used it to pass Down the Rabbit Hole, but you can do that much easier with a clip.

I'm personally not going to be running the game for WRs, not really my thing. I'll be doing unrecorded runs on the current or future WR paths to see if I can find any improvements. Of course I'll be posting my findings here.

On a completely unrelated and possibly unhelpful note, I found out that if you esc once you start absorbing the black cube (before the white walls start appearing) you get a black gun until you exit the game. It converts picked up cubes into black cubes and places black cubes. It seems to have the exact same properties as the red gun.

ChocoPoptart

2013-02-05 04:45:59 pm

That was an awesome run fawwles! Something that I noticed is how when the game unfreezes after deleting the file there is little to no lag time for you. Whenever I delete the file there's about 1-2 seconds of time where it's just frozen on the baby picture. I'm going back to my point about lag possibly being an issue, but it probably isn't that big of a deal until we reach the far depths of the metagame.

fawwles

Edit history:

fawwles: 2013-02-05 04:59:59 pm

2013-02-05 04:58:10 pm

I only start recording after the game has restarted. You'll notice that when you re-spawn, you'll be slightly in the air unable to make any movements, and then you'll drop and inputs will be accepted. This is my first game that I've ever speedrun, and as far as I know, SDA timing begins on first input, so my timer begins as soon as I drop down.

In other news - 4:55.12 on stream. I'm starting to think that 4:45 might not be impossible, since I counted at least 7 seconds of mistakes in that run.

rotgertesla

Edit history:

rotgertesla: 2013-02-05 05:43:08 pm

rotgertesla: 2013-02-05 05:39:37 pm

2013-02-05 05:38:56 pm

Hi guys,
It has already been reported that you can can get the hidden red gun by glitching a seam. I realized you only need 4 cubes to glitch through a seam.
Now we just need to find out if there is a quick way to get there with only a blue or green gun...

Edit: How do you embed a video^ I am new here
Edit2: Only one cube is necessary! Uploading new video soon (you need to place it 4 sapce of heigh and 1 space from the side)

ChocoPoptart

2013-02-05 05:44:04 pm

The video is automatically embedded. You have to use the full link for the video though, not the shortened version.

error1

2013-02-05 05:46:03 pm

Not a Zelda 2 refrence

yeah there are two red guns you can get in the climbing the tower puzzle, that was known. Not practical for a speed run beacuse it requires doing 2+ out of the way puzzles instead of one puzzle at the start.

ChocoPoptart

Edit history:

ChocoPoptart: 2013-02-05 05:48:47 pm

ChocoPoptart: 2013-02-05 05:48:40 pm

2013-02-05 05:48:19 pm

It might be useful if No Esc is a category though. I don't know how the route for that would go though, so I'm not too sure about it.

z1mb0bw4y

2013-02-05 06:10:40 pm

Gets the cake.

Yeah, to access the seam between 6 and 7 requires at least the yellow gun, so at that point there's really no reason to have two red guns.

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

2013-02-05 06:27:52 pm

Claimh Happy

No ESC doesn't seem to need the red gun at all, because the game dumps you right out in front of the end (almost seems like the dev wanted you to try it :P). I haven't timed it yet because I'm not ready to start doing runs, but the two ways to get the red gun (climb from there or take a slightly more circuitous route that has less climbing but more puzzles) both seem to take more time than it would save. I could always be proven wrong though...

ChocoPoptart

2013-02-05 06:46:42 pm

Again, I'm not sure how the route actually goes, but if you're close to The End door right after getting the yellow gun then it could be possible to 'elevator' up to the top level while standing on a block using the yellow gun's ability. Though that might not actually save any time...

rotgertesla

Edit history:

rotgertesla: 2013-02-05 07:00:41 pm

rotgertesla: 2013-02-05 07:00:16 pm

2013-02-05 07:00:01 pm

What I had in mind was to take the blue gun and 2 cube they go up by jumping on the 2 cubes then do a seam trick when you reach the top. Thats why I was happy to see that you can glitch any seam with only one cube.
Then I realised that there is no seam when you climb the tower that way..
I found that you can place block outside the floor 2 (through the window) when you are climbing though, but I dont think It have any use.