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Quote from Marche_Fighter_Paladin:
Can you do a video of 7? I thought it was possible since that's generally how the dev did things, but I couldn't figure it out.

Sure thing. The only tricky part is the third door where there aren't enough cubes to both prop the door and pull the used ones back out (and you need at least 5 from there).



--SMQ
Edit history:
Endless: 2013-02-09 11:28:28 am
Yesterday I did a no-esc run with the yellow gun in 8:14 (from clicking on Leap of Faith to the anticube hitting the... anti-receiver), having made huge mistakes in Learning to Draw and The Escape. I'm certain that by just being faster and making fewer mistakes, the run could be less than 8 minutes.
Quote from error1:
Quote from Marche_Fighter_Paladin:
Can you do a video of 7? I thought it was possible since that's generally how the dev did things, but I couldn't figure it out.

even if you dupe there is no reason to make two trips

actually possible with just 2 cubes but you might as well take 7


That has nothing to do with the puzzle I was talking about? Also that seems horribly unreliable.
Quote from Endless:
Yesterday I did a no-esc run with the yellow gun in 8:14

Based on that, unless you can shave a full 45s out of The Escape, I still think the Red Gun route could be faster.

I timed you from crossing the last door up-top (@4:57) through crossing the final door before the black cube (i.e. everything that's different between the red and yellow guns). You were 2:53 between those doors, where fawwles did it in 1:03  with the red gun on the WR any% run.  Almost two full minutes faster.  Even with a generous allowance for mistakes, that's a pretty striking difference.

--SMQ
I looked back and I didn't actually mention this yet: the alternate route to get the red gun in no ESC is when you get to the bees, drop down and solv the puzzle behind you. I don't remember exactly where this takes you, but it should skip one of the climbs. Might still take longer though, but it could make the Red Gun a couple seconds faster still.
Seems that yellow gun is just not viable, then. Would someone describe to me in-depth the red gun route or make a video?
Edit history:
Endless: 2013-02-09 03:14:36 pm
Endless: 2013-02-09 03:06:40 pm
Endless: 2013-02-09 03:06:30 pm
Well, I think I figured it out - but I can't use the side passage anymore, which makes me sad.

Solving the puzzle and walking is something like 10 seconds faster than riding a block up, here's a video of each.


Time to make a 7 minute run, eh?
Yeah that's what I meant. Sorry for saying the puzzle would be behind you, but that's where I remembered it being. But yeah, I'm glad I didn't forget about that entirely Tongue
With that route I don't think it's possible for skipping the red gun to be faster, even with the last puzzle being perfect with the yellow gun.
Hm....It's still hard for me to believe the Red gun saves so much time, but maybe that's because in my head I'm thinking about it in terms of perfection. It's certainly much harder to do the Yellow gun methods at the same level of execution as the Red gun methods.
Not a Zelda 2 refrence
Quote from M:
Quote from error1:
Quote from Marche_Fighter_Paladin:
Can you do a video of 7? I thought it was possible since that's generally how the dev did things, but I couldn't figure it out.

even if you dupe there is no reason to make two trips
actually possible with just 2 cubes but you might as well take 7


That has nothing to do with the puzzle I was talking about? Also that seems horribly unreliable.

it's not unreliable, try it out
It took you over 2 and a half minutes to dupe four blocks. I call that unreliable.
Edit history:
error1: 2013-02-09 05:50:39 pm
Not a Zelda 2 refrence
Quote from M:
It took you over 2 and a half minutes to dupe four blocks. I call that unreliable.

I was doing it wrong, I had too much ammo in the gun most of the time without realizing and deleted some blocks on accident. Seriously try it out it saves time on the yellow rout.
You can do it without jumping too, I think it's more about how fast your cursor is going, easier jumping tho.
So what would the path be? Pass 7 through the wall, dupe one with the drag glitch, then get 6 more with the fill method?
I just want to share my strat for the puzzle before the red gun in case it isn't known yet. It's not much but it should be faster anyway, I think.


I've attempted some any% myself but no good runs so far. I hope my aiming gets better. :/
Edit history:
Endless: 2013-02-09 08:10:30 pm
Byrz, it does - since you can't easily tweak the mouse sens, you need to build mouse precision for whichever setting is closest to what you're familiar with. Eventually, it'll catch up.
Um, depending on the mouse you can tweak mouse sensitivity if you check your device settings. But yeah, I recommend just getting used to what you have. That tends to work much better.
I've practiced any% yesterday and it resulted in this:

No breakthroughs, just an OK execution of the existing strategy with some tweaks. And some serious luck with the last shot.
I then tried to push for 4:4x, to no avail. But it's definitely in the sights. And the ultimate goal, I think will be 4:3x, no less!
Edit history:
mokesmoe: 2013-02-10 03:27:55 am
mokesmoe: 2013-02-10 03:07:02 am
mokesmoe: 2013-02-10 03:01:27 am
mokesmoe: 2013-02-10 03:01:04 am
For the proper solution for link to the past you don't need to do any block duplication. In the S-bend leading up to it the walls don't reach up to the ceiling. You can just shoot blocks over top of it. The Link in a Chain Reaction route looks really fast though.

I've also found a way to get cubes past any S-bend with the green gun. If you shoot your first cube just past the wall on the ground and then drag your mouse to the right, you can place cubes along the floor past the glass and all over the other side of the wall.


Unfortunately, even with this the only parts of the tower I can access with the green gun are 3, 5 & 7 (Kind of suspiciously spaced out) so I can't skip the yellow gun yet, not that it necessarily would be faster.
So with some of the runs recently I've been a little confused with the timing of the game. Where does it start? Is it when the screen changes, when you land on the ground, or when you click on the box to the first room? I feel like clicking on the box would be the most efficient way of doing it, as you can easily start a timer from there, but it is skipping the turning around part that's there.

Also, mokesmoe, skipping it's impossible to skip any of the guns by picking up a high version of the gun. You CAN skip the red gun by not picking it up, but you can't skip any of the previous three because of the way that the game is programmed. When you pick up a gun, it doesn't check what gun it is, it just gives you the next one in line. So say you have the green gun and pick up one of the red guns. The end result will be the game giving you the yellow gun. So the only gun you can actually skip having is the red gun, as I mentioned earlier.
Darn it, I must have missed that.
Claimh Happy
Most people have been starting timing as soon as they gain control in the hub. Personally I wouldn't mind delaying it until selecting the first square, since that would cut out awkward difference from how much the game lags on startup, but that would obviously only apply to any%. If the dev updates the timed sign like he said he might, then 100% would be from file start because it'd be measured in-game. Either way, it's something we can decide on as a group.
Edit history:
byrz: 2013-02-10 10:36:42 pm
Today I was actually able to pull off 4:54. I even missed the last shot once, which cost me 3 seconds. Going for sub 4:50 definitely.

For the timing in the beginning, I usually wait until I land on the ground and then as soon as I react to that, immediately start the timer and start turning. It's a shame you can't really predict the exact moment when you land.
Edit history:
Endless: 2013-02-10 11:04:19 pm
Marche, out of curiosity, why would that apply only to any%?
Edit history:
z1mb0bw4y: 2013-02-11 01:27:52 am
Gets the cake.
Quote from Endless:
Marche, out of curiosity, why would that apply only to any%?


What he meant was that 100% will be timed using the in-game clock, so it doesn't matter how we "start timing" there because the game is doing it for us. The dev is planning on making the last "wall panel" activate after you get all of the rest (or something like that), and he'll make it so the timer stops at that point. For any%, in-game clock isn't accurate since it's ticking down during the ending and whatnot, so we have to set up some kind of standard of timing.

Personally, I think that starting timing when you click the box to go to the first area makes sense. The only thing I would worry about there is that velocity gets transferred, so you could "theoretically" jump forward while clicking the box or something, but that's so minuscule I wouldn't even be concerned with it. That said, SDA will likely be of the opinion that timing will begin once you gain control.