Psychonauts

Inexistence

2011-07-23 05:25:52 am

Yes, Inexistence is a word.

Hell yeah, I'll stream :D. Let me know the date!

SMK

2011-07-23 09:41:14 am

Quote from Inexistence:

I'd say the camera control is a big big plus.

Quote from bloodisblue:

I've tried both and the camera control is worth the mouse and keyboard setup.

Ugh, after trying it for a bit, I do have to (reluctantly) agree that the better camera control is worth giving up the analog sticks at least for platforming. Its going to be quite the re-learning process.

Quote from bloodisblue:

Also if you guys can stream maybe we could all set up a day to race on speedrunslive Smiley

I haven't played in a long time but I basically remember the game and it could be pretty fun.

I haven't ever streamed anything before, how hard is it to get everything set-up?

bloodisblue

Edit history:

bloodisblue: 2011-07-23 04:57:01 pm

2011-07-23 04:48:46 pm

Well as of right now streaming is very easy. Just go over to XSplit.com and sign up to be a beta tester. It is very self explanatory and only takes about 5 minutes to get up and running. (And probably use justin.tv, it is much easier to use in my opinion)

We probably could get a race going tomorrow. I'm busy in the afternoon though so probably before 2 EST would be best for me. (and I'm not 100% sure if I can race though Sad

, I probably can depending on the time though)

Inexistence

2011-07-23 05:08:58 pm

Yes, Inexistence is a word.

I'm up for pretty much any time tomorrow, sounds like fun to me Cheesy

SMK

2011-08-12 07:24:55 pm

Good news everyone, I've found a way to skip the plunger in Boyd's mind (I'm assuming this is news anyways). If you jump off the side where the sewer is, and then float, you can land on the outside of the pipe below the street, then, just walk towards the center, and you'll enter the loading zone (you'll still be getting 'warned' by the G-men, but you won't get insta-kicked because you're too far away from the center. I don't think its possible to skip the cobweb duster due to the web in gloria's, but at least this is a start.

bloodisblue

2011-08-14 10:53:11 am

Very useful skip you found there SMK Cheesy

though it doesn't skip cobweb duster because you still need it to get into the house with the telephone (or maybe you can wall jump up it, not sure) but it skips the boss fight so it saves at least a minute.

I made a quick video demonstrating how to do it for those who didn't understand what SMK said.

SMK

Edit history:

SMK: 2011-08-15 06:26:13 pm

SMK: 2011-08-15 06:25:36 pm

SMK: 2011-08-15 06:24:32 pm

SMK: 2011-08-15 06:04:32 pm

SMK: 2011-08-15 06:04:21 pm

2011-08-15 06:04:03 pm

Thanks for posting the video; I still need to get some kind of recording set-up for this game...

Quote from bloodisblue:

though it doesn't skip cobweb duster because you still need it to get into the house with the telephone

I soon after posting realized my mistake, however, not to be proven wrong, I then discovered that you can stack the pylons that are around the manhole by using TK to make a mini-tower that you can jump on. So, by throwing ~6 of them across the middle section, you can make a tower and jump into the building from the side window (and you won't get auto-shot by the sniper because that trigger is only when you try jumping in from the front of the building). Invariably slower as long as we still need the duster for gloria's mind, but this might lead to another thing...

Basically, its possible to stand on top of the telephone pole (i.e. along the horizontal platform-y part) without being auto-captured; the auto-capture is only on the cylinder directly around the vertical pole itself. Hence, I _think_ (or rather, am desperately hoping) that it might be possible to build a pylon tower up, so that you can levitate-jump directly up to the top of the telephone pole, without getting the telephone. I don't even know how useful this might be, since I've found that its impossible to even build pylon towers without an analog stick (you really need the precision for it I find), and even then its very tedious, but hey, if it skips every item in boyd's mind, it just might be viable for a segmented strategy. I don't know, food for thought, and I haven't even confirmed if the number of pylons you get is enough to get the height necessary for the jump, let alone whether its possible but hey, finding good breaks isn't always easy (the last one was a fluke!)

EDIT:
BOO YEAH

Okay, yep, you can skip all the items in boyd's mind, as long as you have an analog stick. Basically, you need to build a pylon tower on the edge of the island that is facing where the phone line extends out to the girl scout's house. There are 9 pylons available, you need to stack the tower 8 high (or maybe 7 will work). Then, get on the ball, and get a running start, and jump such that you'll land exactly on your tower, then jump again, out, towards the phone lines above the abyss (you need the momentum to get the distance necessary). The key is that they bend downwards a little initially as they leave the island, before curving upwards. With a little luck, you can land on the left side one, and then proceed to slide to the house on the other side. So, yeah!

Thanks for posting the video; I still need to get some kind of recording set-up for this game...

[quote="bloodisblue"] though it doesn't skip cobweb duster because you still need it to get into the house with the telephone[/quote]
I soon after posting realized my mistake, however, not to be proven wrong, I then discovered that you can stack the pylons that are around the manhole by using TK to make a mini-tower that you can jump on.  So, by throwing ~6 of them across the middle section, you can make a tower and jump into the building from the side window (and you won't get auto-shot by the sniper because that trigger is only when you try jumping in from the front of the building).  Invariably slower as long as we still need the duster for gloria's mind, but this might lead to another thing...

Basically, its possible to stand on top of the telephone pole (i.e. along the horizontal platform-y part) without being auto-captured; the auto-capture is only on the cylinder directly around the vertical pole itself.  Hence, I _think_ (or rather, am desperately hoping) that it might be possible to build a pylon tower up, so that you can levitate-jump directly up to the top of the telephone pole, without getting the telephone.  I don't even know how useful this might be, since I've found that its impossible to even build pylon towers without an analog stick (you really need the precision for it I find), and even then its very tedious, but hey, if it skips every item in boyd's mind, it just might be viable for a segmented strategy.  I don't know, food for thought, and I haven't even confirmed if the number of pylons you get is enough to get the height necessary for the jump, let alone whether its possible but hey, finding good breaks isn't always easy (the last one was a fluke!)

EDIT:
BOO YEAH

Okay, yep, you can skip all the items in boyd's mind, as long as you have an analog stick.  Basically, you need to build a pylon tower on the edge of the island that is facing where the phone line extends out to the girl scout's house.  There are 9 pylons available, you need to stack the tower 8 high (or maybe 7 will work).  Then, get on the ball, and get a running start, and jump such that you'll land exactly on your tower, then jump again, out, towards the phone lines above the abyss (you need the momentum to get the distance necessary).  The key is that they bend downwards a little initially as they leave the island, before curving upwards.  With a little luck, you can land on the left side one, and then proceed to slide to the house on the other side.  So, yeah!

bloodisblue

2011-08-15 08:27:45 pm

Wow. That is an incredible find SMK! I can't believe you found a skip for the entire boyd's mind Tongue

that is incredible and will definitely make getting to 30 for Gloria be that much harder without Boyd and Edgar really having to be done at all.

Also unfortunately you probably still could get the cobweb duster because level 20 is required for telekenisis however in a segmented run it is most likely very possible to use that to your full advantage. Your run or a least planning / glitch finding is superb and I'm looking forward to the rest of your run.

SMK

2011-08-15 08:37:47 pm

Quote from bloodisblue:

... and will definitely make getting to 30 for Gloria be that much harder ...

My thoughts exactly. I'm going to be trying to do stuff on gloria's for the next little bit, but I don't have quite as much hope for that stage, which sucks because that's still the biggest bottleneck. Thankfully with the bottom of the lake arrowheads make getting the cobweb duster isn't so bad.

Quote from bloodisblue:

Your run or a least planning / glitch finding is superb and I'm looking forward to the rest of your run.

Thanks, hopefully it'll all come together in the end.

Inexistence

Edit history:

Inexistence: 2011-08-16 07:04:46 am

2011-08-16 07:03:09 am

Yes, Inexistence is a word.

Wow, incredible stuff!

Surely if we could find some way to skip Gloria's mind, would the level requirement just be enough for telekinesis, then?

SMK (work)

2011-08-16 07:39:17 am

Quote from Inexistence:

Wow, incredible stuff!

Surely if we could find some way to skip Gloria's mind, would the level requirement just be enough for telekinesis, then?

I'm not sure, is it possible to get through meat circus w/out invisibility? I haven't tried anything with that section yet, but I remember needing it.

BaronHaynes

2011-08-16 03:54:04 pm

Strange days, incredible days

Invisibility was used in the last chain of boss fights in butt3rs's run, I believe it's used to manipulate their attacks.

SMK

Edit history:

SMK: 2011-08-16 05:45:55 pm

SMK: 2011-08-16 04:59:30 pm

SMK: 2011-08-16 04:51:23 pm

SMK: 2011-08-16 04:48:53 pm

SMK: 2011-08-16 04:48:13 pm

2011-08-16 04:48:01 pm

My God, did they playtest this at all?

The short version: RAZ CAN FLY

The long version: I was playing around in gloria's mind, basically trying to float-cancel up one of the walls to see if I can get up to the ladder up top, when I notice something very odd; If you jump ~~with levetation ball active~~, and then hit float, and then, while holding float, rapidly alternate tapping the jump button and the button to activate the levitate psy power, Raz will rapidly switch between his 'float' and 'jump' animation, and, very oddly enough, start to rise upwards! Hence, if you can alternate fast enough, you can basically fly. I haven't looked for anywhere that this might break stuff (except for the phone skip, which is now VERY TRIVIAL), but, seriously, WTF double fine?

In any case, yay!

EDIT: Unfortunately, there are invisible walls all around the ladder at the top of Gloria's stage, so I can't seem to get in, even with this trick. I can't really see how else I can get around it, but I'll keep looking.

My God, did they playtest this at all?

The short version: RAZ CAN FLY

The long version: I was playing around in gloria's mind, basically trying to float-cancel up one of the walls to see if I can get up to the ladder up top, when I notice something very odd; If you jump [s]with levetation ball active[/s], and then hit float, and then, while holding float, rapidly alternate tapping the jump button and the button to activate the levitate psy power, Raz will rapidly switch between his 'float' and 'jump' animation, and, very oddly enough, start to rise upwards!  Hence, if you can alternate fast enough, you can basically fly.  I haven't looked for anywhere that this might break stuff (except for the phone skip, which is now VERY TRIVIAL), but, seriously, WTF double fine?

In any case, yay!

EDIT: Unfortunately, there are invisible walls all around the ladder at the top of Gloria's stage, so I can't seem to get in, even with this trick.  I can't really see how else I can get around it, but I'll keep looking.

Inexistence

2011-08-16 05:48:32 pm

Yes, Inexistence is a word.

Wow, INCREDIBLE find SMK! Absolutely amazing. This will make the Edgar skip much easier too! I'm gonna have a look at Gloria now. I really, really hope there's something there. And that there's some way to avoid invisibility in this boss fight D:

SMK

Edit history:

SMK: 2011-08-17 07:43:52 am

2011-08-16 05:49:50 pm

Don't get your hopes up too much, there's also a cobweb in Waterloo World that I can't seem to get around Sad

EDIT: Okay, I just ran through the rest of the game last night. Cobweb duster is definitely still going to be required (unless a way to glitch right through them is discovered), it just comes up too much. Invisibility is only _required_ for Gloria's door, so in the very off chance that can be circumvented in some fashion, that could be skipped. Also, its possible to bypass the entire first section of the meat circus, because the tunnel of love is within the same loading area as the entrance area, so one can just fly up to the rails and go to the next loading area.

SMK

Edit history:

SMK: 2011-08-21 10:05:38 am

SMK: 2011-08-21 09:31:10 am

2011-08-21 09:30:42 am

I'm thinking of making a psychonauts page on the SDA KB wiki with all the various tricks and skips that have been discovered, and a route outline with details as to which figments, cards, arrowheads, etc... to collect (which anyone is then free to update if they have a better route). Does anyone mind if I link to their youtube videos when discussing examples of certain tricks? I'll be sure to credit people where applicable. I'll be taking silence as consent.

Inexistence

2011-08-21 10:36:35 am

Yes, Inexistence is a word.

Haha, go for it. I don't think anyone's really sure what figments and cards and stuff are worth it anymore, there's a hell of a lot of options.

SMK

2011-08-21 02:35:58 pm

Here's my first draft: http://speeddemosarchive.com/kb/Psychonauts . An actual outline of the route I have planned is forthcoming, but I'm at my friend's cottage for the next 3 days, so I ran out of time to get that part done. Feel free to change/edit/update anything you see as incorrect or whatever (assuming you have an account).

lookw

2011-08-25 05:10:03 pm

Very nice job on some of these skips.

The whole flying trick could also be used on the asylum when out of bounds (is there is a ceiling in that section?) so it may be possible to levitate glitch to the top of the tower.

now with some of these tricks in mind is anyone going to change their run?
i can see the improved double jump being useful in lungfishopolois. Smiley

Also nice job with the wiki (thanks for using my video)

SMK

2011-08-26 08:33:43 am

Quote from lookw:

The whole flying trick could also be used on the asylum when out of bounds (is there is a ceiling in that section?) so it may be possible to levitate glitch to the top of the tower.

From what I've tried, this doesn't help much, since there's a lot of instant death areas outside of the tower, that are normally supposed to prevent you from falling too far when you're up higher. Its hard to explain, and I'm not convinced that there's absolutely no way to fly up safely, but it looks doubtful. Once I have the first half of the route down, I might look at that kind of optimization later.

Quote from lookw:

now with some of these tricks in mind is anyone going to change their run?
i can see the improved double jump being useful in lungfishopolois. Smiley

I might try and submit an SS if I can be bothered to purchase FRAPS. I don't quite follow what you mean by the improved double jump in Lungfishopolis? Do you mean the flying, because float is disabled in that section.

Quote from lookw:

Also nice job with the wiki (thanks for using my video)

Thanks, although to be fair, I still cannot pull off that glitch myself. Is there any way to do it consistently, or is it just chance if one can pull it off? I'm just wondering if its worth including in my marathon/SS route, or if I should just fly to the top in that section (its about a 10 seconds loss).

I'm almost done writing the route, though I'll probably be editing it as I practice as well.

[quote="lookw"]The whole flying trick could also be used on the asylum when out of bounds (is there is a ceiling in that section?) so it may be possible to levitate glitch to the top of the tower.
[/quote]
From what I've tried, this doesn't help much, since there's a lot of instant death areas outside of the tower, that are normally supposed to prevent you from falling too far when you're up higher.  Its hard to explain, and I'm not convinced that there's absolutely no way to fly up safely, but it looks doubtful.  Once I have the first half of the route down, I might look at that kind of optimization later.

[quote="lookw"]
now with some of these tricks in mind is anyone going to change their run?
 i can see the improved double jump being useful in lungfishopolois. :)
[/quote]
I might try and submit an SS if I can be bothered to purchase FRAPS.  I don't quite follow what you mean by the improved double jump in Lungfishopolis?  Do you mean the flying, because float is disabled in that section.

[quote="lookw"]Also nice job with the wiki (thanks for using my video)[/quote]
Thanks, although to be fair, I still cannot pull off that glitch myself.  Is there any way to do it consistently, or is it just chance if one can pull it off?  I'm just wondering if its worth including in my marathon/SS route, or if I should just fly to the top in that section (its about a 10 seconds loss).

I'm almost done writing the route, though I'll probably be editing it as I practice as well.

lookw

2011-08-26 07:05:00 pm

Well the glitch itself requires a bit of timing. When i pulled it off i palm bombed just as raz's dad jumps so i guess it requires some proper timing but as soon as u get it it shouldn't take long to replicate it.

SMK

Edit history:

SMK: 2011-08-27 10:36:51 am

SMK: 2011-08-27 10:36:16 am

2011-08-27 10:35:30 am

Quote from lookw:

Well the glitch itself requires a bit of timing. When i pulled it off i palm bombed just as raz's dad jumps so i guess it requires some proper timing but as soon as u get it it shouldn't take long to replicate it.

Wow, yeah, it seems like it can only be done just as Raz's Dad is jumping off, because knowing that, I was able to do it first try during my attempt today. Nice, I'll have to experiment some more with that and possibly update the wiki.

In any case, my new SS real-time best: 1:17:39.89 (no idea what that translated to game-time), and even that was with 3 minutes lost due to a really funky glitch in Lungfishopolis.

bloodisblue

Edit history:

bloodisblue: 2011-08-31 10:51:45 am

2011-08-31 08:27:23 am

Very nice find there SMK. I tried double binding Jump to space and R so I could play like I normally do and whenever I want to fly it would be very easy to rotate between E and R. However apparently double binding isn't allowed. I'm not sure about this though, I tried to have two Jump = "Space" or "R" in the config file and it only took the later one. However from what I found was that binding jump to R actually made it much easier to do the flying glitch then space because you can just alternate finger presses.

Also the SDA wiki looks really nice Cheesy

great job with that. If you want me to I could probably make videos for some of glitches you have up there. I have a bunch of saves from my segmented route still available so I could just jump around the entire game to make videos. Also I just thought of something, would steam allow us to share saves such as if somebody went through the game and made a save state at the start of every stage making any testing much easier to do.

Quick Addition : We should all set up another race on speedrunslive. That last one between me and inexistence was a ton of fun. Even though we only raced to the first tank.

Very nice find there SMK. I tried double binding Jump to space and R so I could play like I normally do and whenever I want to fly it would be very easy to rotate between E and R. However apparently double binding isn't allowed. I'm not sure about this though, I tried to have two Jump = "Space" or "R" in the config file and it only took the later one. However from what I found was that binding jump to R actually made it much easier to do the flying glitch then space because you can just alternate finger presses.

Also the SDA wiki looks really nice :D great job with that. If you want me to I could probably make videos for some of glitches you have up there. I have a bunch of saves from my segmented route still available so I could just jump around the entire game to make videos. Also I just thought of something, would steam allow us to share saves such as if somebody went through the game and made a save state at the start of every stage making any testing much easier to do.

Quick Addition : We should all set up another race on speedrunslive. That last one between me and inexistence was a ton of fun. Even though we only raced to the first tank.

SMK

Edit history:

SMK: 2011-08-31 11:02:02 am

SMK: 2011-08-31 11:00:10 am

2011-08-31 10:59:53 am

Thanks. I pretty much gave up on using the keyboard for any sections that require flying, but that actually doesn't seem like too bad of a set-up, I might have to try it out.

@videos: Sure, go for it, every bit helps. I've been meaning to get some recordings up now that I have xsplit working, but whenever I get around to playing, I'm mostly just doing route planning/practice, so I forget about making videos. Tongue

@saves: I don't know if there's anything about sharing saves in steam, but just making a zip file of the profiles directory in the psychonauts folder and uploading it somewhere would be pretty helpful (if you would like to upload it and need a place to put it, let me know). Admittedly right now I've basically just been running through the game from scratch if I want to test a given section, but that's kind of wasteful given that I'm much better at the first half of the game and am lousy at the second half.

@race: now that I can actually beat the game, sure, just name a time and date. I'm in university in the fall, so I'm pretty flexible with times. Basically, any weekday afternoon works for me.

Thanks.  I pretty much gave up on using the keyboard for any sections that require flying, but that actually doesn't seem like too bad of a set-up, I might have to try it out.

@videos: Sure, go for it, every bit helps.  I've been meaning to get some recordings up now that I have xsplit working, but whenever I get around to playing, I'm mostly just doing route planning/practice, so I forget about making videos. :P

@saves: I don't know if there's anything about sharing saves in steam, but just making a zip file of the profiles directory in the psychonauts folder and uploading it somewhere would be pretty helpful (if you would like to upload it and need a place to put it, let me know).  Admittedly right now I've basically just been running through the game from scratch if I want to test a given section, but that's kind of wasteful given that I'm much better at the first half of the game and am lousy at the second half.

@race: now that I can actually beat the game, sure, just name a time and date.  I'm in university in the fall, so I'm pretty flexible with times.  Basically, any weekday afternoon works for me.

butt3rs

Edit history:

butt3rs: 2011-08-31 05:28:36 pm

butt3rs: 2011-08-31 02:09:45 pm

butt3rs: 2011-08-31 02:09:22 pm

butt3rs: 2011-08-31 02:09:19 pm

butt3rs: 2011-08-31 02:09:17 pm

2011-08-31 01:47:47 pm

Yeah, that's me!

Wow, some really nice developments since I last checked.

The flying really is an awesome find, although it seems like many areas where it might come in handy are "protected" (e.g. Glorias Stage, Front Gate of the Asylum). But after the game is already broken that much it wouldn't be a surprise if we found methods to bypass invisible walls as well ;).

I'm not really working on the game at the moment, but I surely check out some of the possibilities of flying and get back to you as soon as I find good uses for it.

EDIT: Just tried flying in Milla's Mind, lots of possibilities there. ^^

EDIT 2: Flying kicks ass... ^^ Was just messing around in Gloria's Stage. The Catwalks can now be completed in like 10-15 sec, the phantom fight can also be performed a lot faster.

Greetz, Butt3rs