Lufia

2006-03-03 02:01:39 am

Pudding%

Go for it, man! Can't wait to see this...and I'll try to have Lufia 2 done at some point shortly after yours is put up Wink

Mr_Nice_Guy

Edit history:

Mr_Nice_Guy: 2006-03-03 06:56:18 pm

2006-03-03 01:29:21 pm

Battle Is My Forte

well, i started from the beginning again, buying boomerangs and not getting Speed ring.
Ive just beaten the Tarantula.
bought best equips + escape spell in Clamento.
Save before Tarantula 1:04
Save after Tarantual 1:15 (in village of Clamento)

Tarantula can be such a bitch at low levels.
I reseted it a few times, because of a few things:
- Low level Tia gets killed by 1 Poison attack >_>
- Guy (who has Fire Dagger from camu tower) getting paralized.
- He kept using stronger on himself >_<
Did i say i hated Tarantula?

Edit:
1:48 after Gades fight 1 saved in Merix

Now to get trough the cave and do the next Dungeon with the EVIL IDURA!!!!

EDIT2:
2:41 saved in parcelyte after Idura steals you baby

man Gades is tough >_>

DTaeKim

2006-03-03 09:23:46 pm

I added a segment between Treck and Medan, namely in Grenoble. I figured that 33 minutes was too big of a segment to play without having something serious happen.

Anyway...

3rd Run Sheran - 0:26
4th Run Sheran - 0:25

3rd Run Treck - 0:34
4th Run Treck - 0:32

I'm also going to do a route change. I'm going to head to Medan before doing the 2nd Level of the Old Cave. I aim to hit Level 10, so I can do the 2nd and 3rd Level at the same time, saving me some backtracking.

I'm going to go with the best of 3 runs. If there happens to be a tie, I use the character stats to determine which save I shall continue.

Although I have only played 3 segments (a total of 9 times), I've noticed that my first run tends to be my best for whatever reason. Weird.

Mr_Nice_Guy

Edit history:

Mr_Nice_Guy: 2006-03-04 12:32:02 pm

2006-03-04 10:36:16 am

Battle Is My Forte

I wish they kept the "raise level by 2" wish in Lufia 2.
I would have gathered the eggs.
Could have still done it for the 30 of each potion or S-Rings....

3:40 saved at Dankirk.
If i beat this game sub-6, i might think of leveling a bit more. Enemies always attack before me (since im slower) and most (boss) fights a barely survived.
Example: In all Idura fights, Dekar barely survives and makes the final hit. (dekar Lv25, others Lv20)

Mr_Nice_Guy

Edit history:

Mr_Nice_Guy: 2006-03-05 07:18:52 pm

2006-03-05 01:48:45 pm

Battle Is My Forte

4h44m saved at Ferim after helping Hans at the North-East Tower getting the green rock.

I barely survived the 4 soldiers fight >_>
Guy survived and critical hit the final soldier =P

EDIT:
5:25 saved at Barnan after Shrine of Vengeance.

1h45 minutes left for:
Tower of Truth
Dragon Mountain
Dual Blade
Gratze
3 Towers (Gades+Amon)
Doom Island.

should be able to make it =P

Mr_Nice_Guy

2006-03-09 07:57:22 pm

Battle Is My Forte

6:09 at Gratze Prison.
ill have the final update tomorrow.

Mr_Nice_Guy

Edit history:

Mr_Nice_Guy: 2006-03-10 05:58:37 pm

2006-03-10 02:18:37 pm

Battle Is My Forte

Death Count:
Maxim = 16 Selan = 18
Guy = 8 Arty = 10
Tia = 4 Lexis = 4
Dekar = 4

Play time: 6:37
Rest: 14
Fights: 149
Flee's: 49
Chests: 81/164
Resets: 4
DragonEggs: 0
----------------------------------------------------------
I am thinking of getting 1 set of Dragon Eggs next time to get the S-Rings. I will also probably level a bit more (just look at my deaths).
I am also considering doing the:"Worlds most difficult puzzle." Since it has some of the best equipment.

EDIT:
I am also gonna do a Retry trial run, just to see how much time it differs from the normal run.

Enhasa

2006-03-12 04:51:45 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Hey DTK, how's it going?

For Mr. Nice Guy, I would have stuff to say but I just want to ask you: how serious are you in doing this? Do you know that Dragondarch is going to be running Lufia 2? I am positive that he will beat your time by a lot, so I just want to make sure you know this so that you don't get frustrated later and feel like you were wasting your time. I don't mean for this to sound negative.

DTaeKim

2006-03-12 05:23:29 am

I'm taking my time with this. Right now, I'm thinking of adding more segments, since I know this will be far more difficult to pull off on a SNES (no save-state abuse).

Right now, my preliminary run has me at Medan with 1:12 elapsed, ready to enter the Ghost Cave. I'm 8 minutes ahead of my previous run.

As for the Old Cave, it's going to be difficult for me to remember where each and every item is located. I'm seriously contemplating just opening every chest, so I don't forget something in the midst of the real run. It may look sloppy, but it saves me headache.

StrangenessDSS

2006-03-12 05:54:28 am

Sleeping Terror

That wouldn't just look sloppy; that would be sloppy.

DTaeKim

Edit history:

DTaeKim: 2006-03-12 06:31:31 am

2006-03-12 06:18:04 am

Well then, I suppose I've no choice but to do it then. Way to whip me into shape Strangeness, even if I'm unable to get off my feet for a few weeks.

Time to draw some maps.

Enhasa

2006-03-12 08:04:27 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Since DTK's got to be a little tired of me opening my yap so much and harping on him, I gotta say: thanks Strangeness, I need all the help I can get. Wink

And now for a motivational guest speaker (emphasis mine)!

Quote:

However, I am against two types of segmented runs.

2. Runs that have really long segments because it is considered "more skillful". If you want to show "more skill" and consistency in the first place, then do a single segment run. When doing a segmented run use as many segments as necessary to get the fastest time possible.

I really would have no mercy for not memorizing the correct chests. You can test on emulator; why would you not be able to practice what to do in those rooms? And besides, since you're segmenting, it's not like you really have to fully commit everything to memory at once when it comes down to it.

Oh and you can use screenshots (hit f1 in zsnes) to help you out with mapping. Although I seriously hope you play to use any maps for preparation (studying) and not actually consulting them while you are running! Shocked

Make sure you do a kick-ass job that will make me not regret offering money. Do you realize what a bind you'll put me in if I watch your video and think I could improve on it? (I should have put that as a clause. ;)) I wouldn't want to improve it myself because then that will be a waste of money.

Well, I probably asked this already, but are there any Cores you can fight that are near save points (like on the overworld next to a town)? Because if there are, you definitely need to abuse them for leveling. Do you know about Peter's FF3 run? Like that, very short segments if you need them. This would save loads of time, and I might not have ever asked you this exactly.

Mr. Nice Guy, sorry but I couldn't resist. If you think that any of "get the s-rings from the egg dragon," "level more," or "do the world's most difficult trick" could possibly be good ideas, I want whatever you're on. Tongue

I really regret the last one not being in a run though. Radix would spaz out if he sees it. (Hint: think Bricks.)

Since DTK's got to be a little tired of me opening my yap so much and harping on him, I gotta say: thanks Strangeness, I need all the help I can get. ;)

And now for a motivational guest speaker (emphasis mine)!
[quote]However, I am against two types of segmented runs.

2.  Runs that have really long segments because it is considered "more skillful".  If you want to show "more skill" and consistency in the first place, then do a single segment run.  [i]When doing a segmented run use as many segments as necessary to get the fastest time possible.[/i][/quote]
I really would have no mercy for not memorizing the correct chests. You can test on emulator; why would you not be able to practice what to do in those rooms? And besides, since you're segmenting, it's not like you really have to fully commit everything to memory at once when it comes down to it.

Oh and you can use screenshots (hit f1 in zsnes) to help you out with mapping. Although I seriously hope you play to use any maps for preparation (studying) and not actually consulting them while you are running! :o

Make sure you do a kick-ass job that will make me not regret offering money. Do you realize what a bind you'll put me in if I watch your video and think I could improve on it? (I should have put that as a clause. ;)) I wouldn't want to improve it myself because then that will be a waste of money.

Well, I probably asked this already, but are there any Cores you can fight that are near save points (like on the overworld next to a town)? Because if there are, you [i]definitely[/i] need to abuse them for leveling. Do you know about Peter's FF3 run? Like that, very short segments if you need them. This would save [i]loads[/i] of time, and I might not have ever asked you this exactly.

Mr. Nice Guy, sorry but I couldn't resist. If you think that any of "get the s-rings from the egg dragon," "level more," or "do the world's most difficult trick" could [i]possibly[/i] be good ideas, I want whatever you're on. :P

I really regret the last one not being in a run though. Radix would spaz out if he sees it. (Hint: think Bricks.)

Mr_Nice_Guy

Edit history:

Mr_Nice_Guy: 2006-03-12 12:10:42 pm

2006-03-12 11:31:00 am

Battle Is My Forte

Well,
Worlds most difficult puzzle does have the Lizard blow, which would be good against the Fire Dragon and the dragons in the 3 towers near the end.

As for the S-rings.
I can get them normally from Dragon Mountain and the 3 Towers, but if i get them trough Dragon Eggs, i will have an advantage against some bosses.

I only have to backtrack twice to "cave to Sudletan" when i get the hookshot and Merix village after fixing the bridge, all other eggs will be on route

EDIT:
I could open only a chests (key chests, Dragon Egg chests and few weapon chests) and do all 4 dragon egg sets. Then ill fight the Egg Dragon, use the bug (use Champion or any other heal spell so his HP goes from MAX to 1 and kill him in 1 hit) so i get the Egg Ring (all stats 999)

Chests to open:
- chests containing dungeon keys
- Chest containing Bug Crush, Fire Dagger, Camu Armor and Witch Ring
- Dragon eggs

that way there will be only a few places to find the eggs.
(onle i had 3 eggs in 1 dungeon 0_o )

DTaeKim

Edit history:

DTaeKim: 2006-03-12 07:42:56 pm

2006-03-12 07:27:55 pm

Well, I've been ignoring the chests except for the weapons in the Old Cave. Level 2 and Level 3 aren't hard to commit to memory. Level 4 and Level 5 will be the difficult ones. Thanks for telling me about the screenshot, Enhasa. It sure beats pulling out grid paper and mapping the place out by hand.

As for segmenting, I was going to add some more segments. Anyway, this is my planned segmenting.

1. Introduction to Alekia
2. Alekia to Sheran (after Gades)
3. Sheran to Treck (before Demon Lords)
4. Treck to Grenoble
5. Grenoble to Medan (before Northwest Tower)
6. Medan to Medan (before Ghost Cave)
7. Medan to Belgen (before Dais Key cave)
8. Belgen to Dais
9. Dais to Belgen (before Lost Forest)
10. Belgen to Jenoba
11. Jenoba to Ruan (before Old Cave Level 4)
12. Ruan to Ruan (before Water Ghost)
13. Ruan to Jenoba (before Elfrea)
14. Jenoba to Odel (before Arus Cave)
15. Odel to Odel (before passing through Arus Cave)
16. Odel to Carbis (before Might Helmet)
17. Carbis to Herat (before Purple Newt and after getting all locations)
18. Herat to Marse (before descending into Alumina caves)
19. Marse to Grenoble (after clearing Ulupp and Elba Islands, before finding Cooper)
20. Grenoble to Carbis (before Gayas Island)
21. Linze to Marse (before Loire Island)
22. Marse to Carbis (before Pirates)
23. Carbis to Arus (before Dual Blade)
24. Arus to Epro (before Power Oil)
25. Epro to Arubus (before Glasdar Key)
26. Arubus to Arubus (before Glasdar Tower)
27. Arubus to Shrine (before Final Battle)

And there you go.
Regarding the possible abuse of cores, I'm afraid to say that it probably would be very difficult. None of the cores spawn on the world map aside from the Green Cores, and well, they're on Doom Island. Too late there.

Mimics are in the Cave to the Dais west of Belgen. Journey takes about a minute to get there, and a minute to get back. Experience gained really isn't worth it IMO.

Mimickers are in the Cave to Arus. Again, journey takes a minute to get there, and a minute to get back. Mimickers have a higher encounter rate than all other high experience monsters, but I'm aiming to get my ass out of that cave ASAP.

Red Cores are in the Alumina islands. The closest save point is Marse, and a journey takes about 30 seconds. Red Cores are probably the most likely to exploit, but thanks to the random battle system there are nine possible monsters to fight, and Red Cores only show up with certain monsters. If I could hack into the ROM, I could find out the odds of each monster formation. While in theory, I could use segments to seek Cores out, I have only encountered two Cores total in 24 battles.

My personal favorite enemy to abuse for experience is the Mad Knight. They start showing up around the Oil Cave, and are about 5000 EXP for one encounter of 3 Mad Knights. Lufia downs one by herself with Bolt. It takes Hero and Aguro combined to take down another. Jerin's sort of useless here. If I can abuse the fact that they Call for Help, I can have Lufia down the fresh Mad Knight every time, and eventually pick up about 20000 EXP in about a minute. By that point though, I'm pretty much set for levels.

Well, I've been ignoring the chests except for the weapons in the Old Cave.  Level 2 and Level 3 aren't hard to commit to memory.  Level 4 and Level 5 will be the difficult ones.  Thanks for telling me about the screenshot, Enhasa.  It sure beats pulling out grid paper and mapping the place out by hand.

As for segmenting, I was going to add some more segments.  Anyway, this is my planned segmenting.

1. Introduction to Alekia
2. Alekia to Sheran (after Gades)
3. Sheran to Treck (before Demon Lords)
4. Treck to Grenoble
5. Grenoble to Medan (before Northwest Tower)
6. Medan to Medan (before Ghost Cave)
7. Medan to Belgen (before Dais Key cave)
8. Belgen to Dais
9. Dais to Belgen (before Lost Forest)
10. Belgen to Jenoba
11. Jenoba to Ruan (before Old Cave Level 4)
12. Ruan to Ruan (before Water Ghost)
13. Ruan to Jenoba (before Elfrea)
14. Jenoba to Odel (before Arus Cave)
15. Odel to Odel (before passing through Arus Cave)
16. Odel to Carbis (before Might Helmet)
17. Carbis to Herat (before Purple Newt and after getting all locations)
18. Herat to Marse (before descending into Alumina caves)
19. Marse to Grenoble (after clearing Ulupp and Elba Islands, before finding Cooper)
20. Grenoble to Carbis (before Gayas Island)
21. Linze to Marse (before Loire Island)
22. Marse to Carbis (before Pirates)
23. Carbis to Arus (before Dual Blade)
24. Arus to Epro (before Power Oil)
25. Epro to Arubus (before Glasdar Key)
26. Arubus to Arubus (before Glasdar Tower)
27. Arubus to Shrine (before Final Battle)

And there you go.
Regarding the possible abuse of cores, I'm afraid to say that it probably would be very difficult.  None of the cores spawn on the world map aside from the Green Cores, and well, they're on Doom Island.  Too late there.

Mimics are in the Cave to the Dais west of Belgen.  Journey takes about a minute to get there, and a minute to get back.  Experience gained really isn't worth it IMO.

Mimickers are in the Cave to Arus.  Again, journey takes a minute to get there, and a minute to get back.  Mimickers have a higher encounter rate than all other high experience monsters, but I'm aiming to get my ass out of that cave ASAP.

Red Cores are in the Alumina islands.  The closest save point is Marse, and a journey takes about 30 seconds.  Red Cores are probably the most likely to exploit, but thanks to the random battle system there are nine possible monsters to fight, and Red Cores only show up with certain monsters.  If I could hack into the ROM, I could find out the odds of each monster formation.  While in theory, I could use segments to seek Cores out, I have only encountered two Cores total in 24 battles.

My personal favorite enemy to abuse for experience is the Mad Knight.  They start showing up around the Oil Cave, and are about 5000 EXP for one encounter of 3 Mad Knights.  Lufia downs one by herself with Bolt.  It takes Hero and Aguro combined to take down another.  Jerin's sort of useless here.  If I can abuse the fact that they Call for Help, I can have Lufia down the fresh Mad Knight every time, and eventually pick up about 20000 EXP in about a minute.  By that point though, I'm pretty much set for levels.

Enhasa

2006-03-13 06:58:26 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Mr. Nice Guy, the problem with getting those things is that they are too late in the game to help you very much, and the battles are quick and easy enough anyway. The time spent getting them will not be worth it.

Ok, so they're not very efficient, but hand drawn maps have a charm all their own. Wink

I just realized that anyone casually reading this might not know that in Lufia 1, you need to go to the church in a town to save and you can't do it on the overworld. So the very act of saving does take some time. Still worth using a lot of segments, but not as many as would otherwise be used.

About cores, the frequency that they show up shouldn't be an issue since you can reload. The only question is, is it worth walking the 30 seconds/minute to fight maybe potentially only 1-2 core fights, walk back, and save it, vs traditional leveling. The best could very well be harvesting, like you say at the end. You want to try and see what other kinds of enemies can be harvested? Maybe this is the kind of thing that would be worth asking reli or someone else about. I checked dinobot's faq and a couple others real quick and they didn't seem to have anything.

Mr. Nice Guy, the problem with getting those things is that they are too late in the game to help you very much, and the battles are quick and easy enough anyway. The time spent getting them will not be worth it.

Ok, so they're not very efficient, but [url=http://vally8.free.fr/jeux/starocean3/soluce.php]hand drawn maps[/url] have a charm all their own. ;)

I just realized that anyone casually reading this might not know that in Lufia 1, you need to go to the church in a town to save and you can't do it on the overworld. So the very act of saving does take some time. Still worth using a lot of segments, but not as many as would otherwise be used.

About cores, the frequency that they show up shouldn't be an issue since you can reload. The only question is, is it worth walking the 30 seconds/minute to fight maybe potentially only 1-2 core fights, walk back, and save it, vs traditional leveling. The best could very well be harvesting, like you say at the end. You want to try and see what other kinds of enemies can be harvested? Maybe this is the kind of thing that would be worth asking reli or someone else about. I checked dinobot's faq and a couple others real quick and they didn't seem to have anything.

Mr_Nice_Guy

2006-03-13 06:19:31 pm

Battle Is My Forte

in my first run, i took Foomy(jelze) as my only capsule monster. Im thinking of getting Blaze instead, since Blaze damaged Tarantula boss, undead and plant monsters.

DTaeKim

Edit history:

DTaeKim: 2006-03-14 04:21:27 am

2006-03-13 08:08:54 pm

I'm leaning towards harvesting, because while time can be saved, the odds aren't too good. Not only must I find a Core, which is a feat in itself, but I have to kill the damn thing. It runs nearly every chance it gets, and it also does two actions for my one.

I'm also wondering if I should go for enemy drops, which have insanely low odds, almost to the point of the Pink Tail in FF2/4. I've finished runs without them, but they do help.

Swordspook - Scimitar
Ghost Mail - Light Armor
Fire Mail - Might Armor
Barient - Might Helmet
Hydra - Might Sword

Those are the notable drops. However, sice the odds are so low, I'm thinking of skipping them entirely. If they drop, well, it's one hell of a bonus. Harvesting these items are probably best left to a TAS.

I also got some significant progress.

Belgen
3rd Run Save - 1:45
Hero: 13, Aguro: 12, Lufia: 12
4th Run Save – 1:31
Hero: 13, Aguro: 12, Lufia: 12
Time saved: 14 minutes

Dais Key Cave
I did some serious testing and found that the Fly Ring DOESN'T improve damage against the Follower. These were Aguro's damage with and without the Fly Ring.

With Fly Ring: 29, 38, 34, 30, 32
Without Fly Ring: 32, 34, 30, 32

Aside from that one anomaly, I am going to drop it from my run. I also dropped the Hi Magic and Hi Potion I usually get. Saves me about a minute and a half total.

Dais
3rd Run Save - 1:56
4th Run Save – 1:41
Hero: 13, Aguro: 12, Lufia: 13
Time saved: 15 minutes

North Tower
Items to be Found: Miracle x2, Flash Ring
2nd Run Follower - Hero: 14, Lufia: 13, Aguro: 13
3rd Run Follower - Hero: 14, Lufia: 13, Aguro: 13
4th Run Follower – Hero: 14, Lufia: 13, Aguro: 13

Belgen
Items to be Found: Miracle
4th Run Save – 1:48

Jenoba
Rest
Purchase Long Sword, Light Armor, Buckler, Glass Beret x2, Big Arrow x14, Hi Potion x14, Sweet Water x20
Talk to old woman in Cider house
3rd Run Save - 2:11
4th Run Save – 1:55
Time saved: 16 minutes

I'll end this post by finding this out; you DON'T need to trigger the broken Red Sapphire cutscene in order to get the Hope Ruby. This saves me a trip to the Green Tower early on, though I will raid the Green Ring from the place when I finish the three gems quest.

I'm leaning towards harvesting, because while time can be saved, the odds aren't too good.  Not only must I find a Core, which is a feat in itself, but I have to kill the damn thing.  It runs nearly every chance it gets, and it also does two actions for my one.

I'm also wondering if I should go for enemy drops, which have insanely low odds, almost to the point of the Pink Tail in FF2/4.  I've finished runs without them, but they do help.

Swordspook - Scimitar
Ghost Mail - Light Armor
Fire Mail - Might Armor
Barient - Might Helmet
Hydra - Might Sword

Those are the notable drops.  However, sice the odds are so low, I'm thinking of skipping them entirely.  If they drop, well, it's one hell of a bonus.  Harvesting these items are probably best left to a TAS.

I also got some significant progress.

Belgen
3rd Run Save - 1:45
Hero: 13, Aguro: 12, Lufia: 12
4th Run Save – 1:31
Hero: 13, Aguro: 12, Lufia: 12
[b]Time saved: 14 minutes[/b]

Dais Key Cave
I did some serious testing and found that the Fly Ring DOESN'T improve damage against the Follower.  These were Aguro's damage with and without the Fly Ring.

With Fly Ring: 29, 38, 34, 30, 32
Without Fly Ring: 32, 34, 30, 32

Aside from that one anomaly, I am going to drop it from my run.  I also dropped the Hi Magic and Hi Potion I usually get.  Saves me about a minute and a half total.

Dais
3rd Run Save - 1:56
4th Run Save – 1:41
Hero: 13, Aguro: 12, Lufia: 13
[b]Time saved: 15 minutes[/b]

North Tower
Items to be Found: Miracle x2, Flash Ring
2nd Run Follower - Hero: 14, Lufia: 13, Aguro: 13
3rd Run Follower - Hero: 14, Lufia: 13, Aguro: 13
4th Run Follower – Hero: 14, Lufia: 13, Aguro: 13

Belgen
Items to be Found: Miracle
4th Run Save – 1:48

Jenoba
Rest
Purchase Long Sword, Light Armor, Buckler, Glass Beret x2, Big Arrow x14, Hi Potion x14, Sweet Water x20
Talk to old woman in Cider house
3rd Run Save - 2:11
4th Run Save – 1:55
[b]Time saved: 16 minutes[/b]

I'll end this post by finding this out; you DON'T need to trigger the broken Red Sapphire cutscene in order to get the Hope Ruby.  This saves me a trip to the Green Tower early on, though I will raid the Green Ring from the place when I finish the three gems quest.

DTaeKim

2006-03-14 07:32:17 pm

If I add this to the previous post, it's going to be too long. Anyway, here are my notes from Jenoba to Jenoba after the Water Ghost.

Blue Tower
Items to be Found: Blue Ring, Revive, Green Jade

Ruan
Items to be Found: Revive, Sweet Water, Emerald
Rest
4th Run Save – 1:58
Hero: 15, Lufia: 14, Aguro: 13, Jerin: 16

Grenoble
Talk to clerk in Old Cave Lobby

Old Cave Level 4
Items to be Found: Smoke Ball, Hi Potion, Miracle, 520 Gold Pieces, Hi Magic, Escape, Crown, Broad Rod, Spell Potion, Long Sword, Brone Helm, Light Robe, Flame Ring, Wind Heels, Buckler, Light Armor
Find the Crown

Medan Caves
Items to be Found: Foul Water, Diamond Ring, Opal, Emerald, 500 Gold Pieces
Get the Hope Ruby

Ruan
2nd Run Ruan 3rd Save - 2:33
Water Ghost - Hero: 15, Lufia: 15, Aguro: 14, Jerin: 17
3rd Run Ruan Before Water Ghost Save - 2:26
Water Ghost - Hero: 15, Lufia: 15, Aguro: 14, Jerin: 17
4th Run Ruan Before Water Ghost – 2:03
Water Ghost – Hero: 15, Lufia: 14, Aguro: 14, Jerin: 16
Time saved: 23 minutes

Red Tower
Items to be Found: Hi Potion, Red Ring, Miracle, Dragon Egg, Blue Jade

Jenoba
Rest
4th Run Save – 2:08

If I add this to the previous post, it's going to be too long.  Anyway, here are my notes from Jenoba to Jenoba after the Water Ghost.

Blue Tower
Items to be Found: Blue Ring, Revive, Green Jade

Ruan
Items to be Found: Revive, Sweet Water, Emerald
Rest
4th Run Save – 1:58
Hero: 15, Lufia: 14, Aguro: 13, Jerin: 16

Grenoble
Talk to clerk in Old Cave Lobby

Old Cave Level 4
Items to be Found: Smoke Ball, Hi Potion, Miracle, 520 Gold Pieces, Hi Magic, Escape, Crown, Broad Rod, Spell Potion, Long Sword, Brone Helm, Light Robe, Flame Ring, Wind Heels, Buckler, Light Armor
Find the Crown

Medan Caves
Items to be Found: Foul Water, Diamond Ring, Opal, Emerald, 500 Gold Pieces
Get the Hope Ruby

Ruan
2nd Run Ruan 3rd Save - 2:33
Water Ghost - Hero: 15, Lufia: 15, Aguro: 14, Jerin: 17
3rd Run Ruan Before Water Ghost Save - 2:26
Water Ghost - Hero: 15, Lufia: 15, Aguro: 14, Jerin: 17
4th Run Ruan Before Water Ghost – 2:03
Water Ghost – Hero: 15, Lufia: 14, Aguro: 14, Jerin: 16
[b]Time saved: 23 minutes[/b]

Red Tower
Items to be Found: Hi Potion, Red Ring, Miracle, Dragon Egg, Blue Jade

Jenoba
Rest
4th Run Save – 2:08

Enhasa

2006-03-14 09:15:38 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote:

in my first run, i took Foomy(jelze) as my only capsule monster. Im thinking of getting Blaze instead, since Blaze damaged Tarantula boss, undead and plant monsters.

If you get any capsule monster, it should probably be Blaze, you're right. Although I still think if/since you can get past the early bosses with no capsule monster, "none" would be the correct choice. Besides having to feed them of course, after a certain point they'd just be wasting your time in battle too. So you should deselect them after awhile even if you got Blaze.

DTK, about the Fly Ring, it feels nice to have said earlier "The only way I could see this being [useful] is if it means the difference between killing a regular enemy in one less hit or not, and if you're doing a lot of that before you get the next ring." Wink

About the enemy drops, it depends: can you get these fights near a save point? I'd imagine that the weapons especially would be way worth it. Honestly, I think you'd have a hard time convincing me that you shouldn't do this. Tongue

I'm glad you're skipping some items, because with increased luck manipulation, that means you need less items of course.

Nice catch on the sequence break, and the amount of time you're saving this early in the run can only mean good things to come. Take your time, and make sure before you start recording for real, that you can't save any more time (i.e. you make a test run and it has basically no improvement on the previous one). My intuition tends to be pretty good, and I thought sub5 to begin with? Wink

[quote]in my first run, i took Foomy(jelze) as my only capsule monster. Im thinking of getting Blaze instead, since Blaze damaged Tarantula boss, undead and plant monsters.[/quote]
If you get any capsule monster, it should probably be Blaze, you're right. Although I still think if/since you can get past the early bosses with no capsule monster, "none" would be the correct choice. Besides having to feed them of course, after a certain point they'd just be wasting your time in battle too. So you should deselect them after awhile even if you got Blaze.

DTK, about the Fly Ring, it feels nice to have said earlier "[i]The only way I could see this being [useful] is if it means the difference between killing a regular enemy in one less hit or not, and if you're doing a lot of that before you get the next ring.[/i]" ;)

About the enemy drops, it depends: can you get these fights near a save point? I'd imagine that the weapons especially would be way worth it. Honestly, I think you'd have a hard time convincing me that you shouldn't do this. :P

I'm glad you're skipping some items, because with increased luck manipulation, that means you need less items of course.

Nice catch on the sequence break, and the amount of time you're saving this early in the run can only mean good things to come. Take your time, and make sure before you start recording for real, that you can't save any more time (i.e. you make a test run and it has basically no improvement on the previous one). My intuition tends to be pretty good, and I thought sub5 to begin with? ;)

DTaeKim

Edit history:

DTaeKim: 2006-03-14 09:55:31 pm

2006-03-14 09:52:45 pm

Thanks to the way this cursed save system works, no, not really. The Scimitar is an incredible boon, but the closest save is Medan, and I need a Swing Wing to do that. As for the time saved, it saves about a minute or two.

The Might Sword I never have found in a speed run. It would be a tremendous help, but I run from Hydras, since they don't give enough EXP to be worth the battle. Bah.

As for the Fly Ring, I don't see enough of a difference to be worth getting. It's about a minute out of my path to retrieve, and it probably only saves one action, maybe two at the most if I'm lucky. The minute lost doesn't justify the marginally quicker Follower battle.

This practice run is essentially my final practice run, actually. I run through each segment three times, taking the lowest time of each segment. The deviation between segments is actually quite significant, around 1 to 3 minutes. In the case where two runs have a tie in time elapsed, I use my party's stats to be the deciding factor.

Anyway, I made some more progress.

Jenoba
Rest
4th Run Save – 2:08
Hero: 15, Lufia: 15, Aguro: 14, Jerin: 17

Blue Tower
Place Blue Jade on pedestal

Green Tower
Items to be Found: Green Ring
Place Green Jade on pedestal

Red Tower
Place Red Sapphire on pedestal

Elfrea
Items to be Found: Mind Potion, Speed Potion, Artea’s Bow
Rest

Odel
Items to be Found: Ex Potion, Ex Magic, Miracle, Speed Potion, Mind Potion, Great Potion, Yellow Ring, Stone Cure, Spell Potion, Hi Magic x2
2nd Run Odel - 3:02
3rd Run Odel - 2:44
4th Run Odel – 2:18
Hero: 16, Lufia: 16, Aguro: 15, Jerin: 18
Purchase Half Mail, Quilted Silk, Kite Shield x2, Iron Helm, Morning Star x2
Talk to group of men in western building before castle
Talk to Piron
Time saved: 26 minutes

Lyden
Talk to man in western building

Odel
Talk to Piron

Arus Cave 1
Items to be Found: Ex Potion, Dragon Egg
Examine bridge

Odel
Rest
4th Run Save – 2:25
Hero: 17, Lufia: 16, Aguro: 16, Jerin: 18
Talk to Piron

Arus Cave 2
Talk to Piron

Arus Cave 3
Items to be Found: Wind Shoes, Iron Helm, Half Mail, Quilted Silk, Miracle, Glass Robe, Stone Cure
Watch Piron

Odel
Rest
4th Run Save – 2:33
Hero: 18, Lufia: 17, Aguro: 17, Jerin: 19

Thanks to the way this cursed save system works, no, not really.  The Scimitar is an incredible boon, but the closest save is Medan, and I need a Swing Wing to do that.  As for the time saved, it saves about a minute or two.

The Might Sword I never have found in a speed run.  It would be a tremendous help, but I run from Hydras, since they don't give enough EXP to be worth the battle.  Bah.

As for the Fly Ring, I don't see enough of a difference to be worth getting.  It's about a minute out of my path to retrieve, and it probably only saves one action, maybe two at the most if I'm lucky.  The minute lost doesn't justify the marginally quicker Follower battle.

This practice run is essentially my final practice run, actually.  I run through each segment three times, taking the lowest time of each segment.  The deviation between segments is actually quite significant, around 1 to 3 minutes.  In the case where two runs have a tie in time elapsed, I use my party's stats to be the deciding factor.

Anyway, I made some more progress.

Jenoba
Rest
4th Run Save – 2:08
Hero: 15, Lufia: 15, Aguro: 14, Jerin: 17

Blue Tower
Place Blue Jade on pedestal

Green Tower
Items to be Found: Green Ring
Place Green Jade on pedestal

Red Tower
Place Red Sapphire on pedestal

Elfrea
Items to be Found: Mind Potion, Speed Potion, Artea’s Bow
Rest

Odel
Items to be Found: Ex Potion, Ex Magic, Miracle, Speed Potion, Mind Potion, Great Potion, Yellow Ring, Stone Cure, Spell Potion, Hi Magic x2
2nd Run Odel - 3:02
3rd Run Odel - 2:44
4th Run Odel – 2:18
Hero: 16, Lufia: 16, Aguro: 15, Jerin: 18
Purchase Half Mail, Quilted Silk, Kite Shield x2, Iron Helm, Morning Star x2
Talk to group of men in western building before castle
Talk to Piron
[b]Time saved: 26 minutes[/b]

Lyden
Talk to man in western building

Odel
Talk to Piron

Arus Cave 1
Items to be Found: Ex Potion, Dragon Egg
Examine bridge

Odel
Rest
4th Run Save – 2:25
Hero: 17, Lufia: 16, Aguro: 16, Jerin: 18
Talk to Piron

Arus Cave 2
Talk to Piron

Arus Cave 3
Items to be Found: Wind Shoes, Iron Helm, Half Mail, Quilted Silk, Miracle, Glass Robe, Stone Cure
Watch Piron

Odel
Rest
4th Run Save – 2:33
Hero: 18, Lufia: 17, Aguro: 17, Jerin: 19

Enhasa

2006-03-14 10:50:01 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote:

The deviation between segments is actually quite significant, around 1 to 3 minutes.

That certainly is evidence in favor of more segments, lol.

Anyway, the single biggest improvement left seems to be potential harvesting. If it's in there with the Mad Knights, it's gotta be in there with other enemies. Please find out about this.

DTaeKim

2006-03-15 01:46:35 am

Should I limit it to enemies who "Call for Help" or enemies who spawn in massive quantities? For instance, Blue Skulls spawn in groups of 6 and give about 2000 EXP, IIRC. I'll look into it, but tonight's pretty bad, since I have two tests tomorrow. Huh?

After those tests, I'm free!

Mr Nice Guy

2006-03-15 10:57:37 am

I am thinking that i will get the dragon eggs (at least the 1st set).
I wont use them for the S-ring set, but for 30 of every potion. 30 Power potions, Speed Potions etc would be good for a speedrun with low levels.
Esspecially for bossting Selans HP and Def and Guy's speed.

Enhasa

2006-03-15 07:48:05 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote:

Should I limit it to enemies who "Call for Help" or enemies who spawn in massive quantities? For instance, Blue Skulls spawn in groups of 6 and give about 2000 EXP, IIRC. I'll look into it, but tonight's pretty bad, since I have two tests tomorrow.

Well, harvesting refers to "call for help." While something like 6 Blue Skulls is nice, the problem is you have to spend time ending the battle, finding another fight (unless you use Foul Water), and the next fight has to be 6 Blue Skulls. But then again, non-harvesting with faster XP enemies would be better than harvesting slower XP enemies. It's all about, how do you gain the most XP in the lowest amount of time. Harvesting helps, which is why people try to do it when they can.

Quote:

I am thinking that i will get the dragon eggs (at least the 1st set).
I wont use them for the S-ring set, but for 30 of every potion. 30 Power potions, Speed Potions etc would be good for a speedrun with low levels.
Esspecially for bossting Selans HP and Def and Guy's speed.

The problem with getting stuff like that in Lufia 2 is that the 2nd half of the game is much easier. So the time that you save from having better stats is less than the amount of time it takes to get those better stats. If the Sinistrals were 10x harder, then I would agree with what you're doing.

The reason why it is a good idea for DTK to get the Dragon Eggs in Lufia 1 is because the Sinistrals are the hardest part at low levels. The wish saves time he would otherwise spend leveling. You don't need to level in Lufia 2, in comparison.

[quote]Should I limit it to enemies who "Call for Help" or enemies who spawn in massive quantities?  For instance, Blue Skulls spawn in groups of 6 and give about 2000 EXP, IIRC.  I'll look into it, but tonight's pretty bad, since I have two tests tomorrow.[/quote]
Well, harvesting refers to "call for help." While something like 6 Blue Skulls is nice, the problem is you have to spend time ending the battle, finding another fight (unless you use Foul Water), and the next fight has to be 6 Blue Skulls. But then again, non-harvesting with faster XP enemies would be better than harvesting slower XP enemies. It's all about, how do you gain the most XP in the lowest amount of time. Harvesting helps, which is why people try to do it when they can.

[quote]I am thinking that i will get the dragon eggs (at least the 1st set).
I wont use them for the S-ring set, but for 30 of every potion. 30 Power potions, Speed Potions etc would be good for a speedrun with low levels.
Esspecially for bossting Selans HP and Def and Guy's speed.[/quote]
The problem with getting stuff like that in Lufia 2 is that the 2nd half of the game is much easier. So the time that you save from having better stats is less than the amount of time it takes to get those better stats. If the Sinistrals were 10x harder, then I would agree with what you're doing.

The reason why it is a good idea for DTK to get the Dragon Eggs in Lufia 1 is because the Sinistrals are the hardest part at low levels. The wish saves time he would otherwise spend leveling. You don't need to level in Lufia 2, in comparison.

DTaeKim

Edit history:

DTaeKim: 2006-03-15 09:02:24 pm

2006-03-15 08:01:59 pm

Tests are done. I think I did fairly well, by my standards (at least a B).

Anyway, I made some more progress.

Arus Cave 4
Items to be Found: Miracle, Revive x2

Arus
Items to be Found: Mind Potion
Trigger cutscene
Talk to old man in northern house
2nd Run Arus - 3:22
4th Run Arus – 2:39

Tower of Grief
Items to be Found: Purple Ring, Stone Cure, Revive, Dragon Egg, Miracle
Talk to Flake

Platina
Talk to Shaia

Carbis
Items to be Found: Mind Potion
Rest

Bakku
Items to be Found: Ex Potion, Ex Magic, Revive
Purchase Sweet Water x40, Smoke Ball x40
Talk to cleric
2nd Run Bakku - 3:46 (Before Might Helmet)
3rd Run Bakku - 3:21 (Before Might Helmet)
Hero: 20, Lufia: 19, Aguro: 18, Jerin: 21
4th Run Bakku – 2:47 (Before Might Helmet)
Hero: 19, Lufia: 18, Aguro: 17, Jerin: 20

Time saved: 34 minutes