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Battle Is My Forte
well, the 30 potions wish could come in handy.
If i dont level much, and dont have enough money for the best armor at the time, those potions couild come in handy.......

Since i dont level up (only non-skippable enemies in a few dungeons and bosses), i wont get enough gold for equips and spells.
Isn't the Ancient Cave key to a low-level run?  Aren't you getting the incredibly powerful Blue Chest equipment?
Battle Is My Forte
well, my trial run time from the previous page was without AC blue treasures. I barely survived most boss fights. So thats why i think the 30 potions wish would come in handy for less deaths and quicker battles.
Edit history:
DTaeKim: 2006-03-16 02:56:27 am
It sounds as if you're suffering from a lack of preparation than difficulty of the game.  It's just me though; I haven't played the game in forever.

Are you sure it's 30 potions?  I read that it was 10 of each stat potion, of which there are 6.

EDIT: Holy crap does the Guardian kick my ass.  I'm one level above my previous run, and he still wipes the floor with me.  The one successful run I did get against the bastard, the battle took 8 minutes!  It's about as long as one segment.  He is one hell of a roadblock in a fast run.  I'm thinking I should build my levels a bit in order to make him managable.

This did happen to me in my previous run too.  Do you have any ideas?
Edit history:
Mr_Nice_Guy: 2006-03-16 05:52:13 am
Battle Is My Forte
doing the ancient cave would swallow up too much time.
Even though it has some of the best equipment its just too random.

EDIT, you are kinda right:

- Set of 60 stat boosting potions, 10 of each kind
- Set of 160 Capsule monster fruits.Don't pick these!
- An "OLD" Shield
- Set of "SUPER" Rings
Edit history:
DTaeKim: 2006-03-17 02:23:08 am
Thanks to the Guardian, I decided to see if beating the Guardian first, then completing the Alumina quest (and leveling to 28, 27, 25, 25 for the heroes respectively) would be faster than leveling, fighting the Guardian, finishing the Alumina quest, and then completing the leveling.

Time difference?  Essentially a difference of 1 minute in favor of the Guardian first.  The difference is so small though, that I consider it to be a result of the amount of random battles and experience gained per battle.  As a result, I'm altering my route to level before the Guardian, finish the Alumina quest, and finish my leveling after the quest.  For the record, I face the Guardian at about two levels higher than I usually am, and it turns a crapshoot into a more reliable victory for me.

As for my route change of switching the Alumina quest somewhat, it looks like there's very little time difference, but it IS in favor of partially completing the Alumina quest before the Tower of Light (about 2 to 3 minutes).  So my route change is permanent.

Oh, and the Red Core encounter is higher than I thought, but it takes about 6 actions to KO one Red Core, in which time, they perform about 4 actions.  Needless to say, harvesting Red Cores will be incredibly difficult.
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
Quote:
Isn't the Ancient Cave key to a low-level run?  Aren't you getting the incredibly powerful Blue Chest equipment?

The AC is key to a TAS (you want to make exactly one trip and Providence ASAP) since you can heavily manipulate the floors, but it's not worth the time in a speedrun. Segmenting will not help this either.

Quote:
Thanks to the Guardian, I decided to see if beating the Guardian first, then completing the Alumina quest (and leveling to 28, 27, 25, 25 for the heroes respectively) would be faster than leveling, fighting the Guardian, finishing the Alumina quest, and then completing the leveling.

Um, it depends on if the location you're leveling in pre and post Guardian is the same place. I'm assuming it's not (or else you would just do all the leveling pre Guardian), and in that case, I have to urge you to do it the way you were doing before. It's faster in theory, and also 1 minute different when you tried it. You could say, well there's a lot of variance, but for all you really know the difference might be more than 1 minute and the luck skewed it in that direction.

Anyway, when you're actually recording this, just think about it: you only need to record this for real once. It might be annoying, but when you're done, all your optimizations will live on for everyone to see, and you won't need to do it ever again. Like I've been saying, make sure that when you record for real, you couldn't just try the run again and get a better time. And ideally, nobody would be able to beat your time without coming up with a new sequence break or something.

At any rate, remind yourself that I am paying you good money. Wink I didn't put a bounty on it because I wanted someone to just have fun and do what they would do by themselves. If you have to suffer a bit of "headache" and aggravation, there are people who went through a lot more for their runs that weren't compensated. I'm excited to see all the time that you are saving. Smiley But I would love to see you approach the limit on how fast a human could run this game.

About the Red Cores, you've pretty much convinced me that Cores are not feasible, but have you come up with any good harvesting spots? If you need helping finding out who calls for help, could you ask on one of those sites maybe?
Beaten Tarantula on my 2nd trial run (using mainly the low lv faq) and thus far i have a 5 minute improvement.
Old Time: 1:18
New Time: 1:13

Blaze sure helped. And i bough 2 Fire amulet thingies at the Alunze casino.

My tarantula strategy:
Maxim: fire amulet, after using all slash!!!
Tia: Heal, cure paralize/poison, fire attack
Guy: Slash, Fire Dagger IP

Blaze did 2 Tail attacks (aprox 350HP damage) before it was killed by the tarantula.
The leveling is done in the exact same place, actually.  It's the Alumina island caves north of Marse.  That probably accounts for the minimal time difference.

I'll go and see if anyone on the other boards knows about some good enemies to harvest.
Killer Chobocos don't get any chocolate.
Quick Question about Lufia 2 (since this kinda is going both ways anyway)

What is this Status screen everyone talks about after the game is finished?  I completed Lufia 2 several times and I don't remember any status screen... Is it for normal games only or something?
Battle Is My Forte
after you see the Lufia 1 Dialogue at the end of Lufia 2, wait a while and you see 3 screens.
1st screen:
Lv's, Deaths, runs etc

2nd screen:
???/??? chests opened
??/?? dragon eggs collected etc

3th screen - Ancient Cave page:
Floor record
Iris truesure
etc
Killer Chobocos don't get any chocolate.
Lufia 1 dialogue? I never seen that either... after it says "The End" it instantly warps to the NATSUME screen for me...

Yay for having a glitched game...
Battle Is My Forte
well, after "The End" i have to wait a couple of minutes (without pressing buttons) and you will see the Lufia 1 dialogue of Hero and Lufia as kids.
After that the Status screens
Waiting two to three minutes should get you the statistics screen and in Lufia 2, the dialogue in Lufia 1.
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
Quote:
The leveling is done in the exact same place, actually.  It's the Alumina island caves north of Marse.  That probably accounts for the minimal time difference.

Um, the reason why I tell you to fight bosses at minimal levels is only so that you can do any further leveling in the new areas that you are opening up. If you beat a boss and then gain some more levels in an area you could already access, then there is no reason why you shouldn't just do [the leveling you need to do minus the XP the boss gives you] before you fight the boss, to make the fight quicker. This is true every time this situation comes up. BUT, if after beating a boss, the most efficient leveling spot is ahead, you should go ahead and not backward. Do you understand what I mean? This is important. If you've played FF1 and know what the PNEOP is, you can read what I wrote there, which is relevant.

FWIW, I think that every time you beat a boss that unlocks a new area, you want to go forward and don't look back. The only bosses the situation above would apply to, is something like, they are guarding something in say a tower, that is part of an extended fetch quest.

Quote:
I'll go and see if anyone on the other boards knows about some good enemies to harvest.

Don't you already have some idea about what kind of enemies call for help, from your test runs? How about cousins of Mad Knights, for example.

Quote:
Quick Question about Lufia 2 (since this kinda is going both ways anyway)

What is this Status screen everyone talks about after the game is finished?  I completed Lufia 2 several times and I don't remember any status screen... Is it for normal games only or something?

Actually, when Dragondarch finishes redoing Superstar Saga, he'll start a Lufia 2 thread.

The important thing is to just sit your controller there and not hit any buttons. If you've played Lufia 1, seeing the end scene in Lufia 2 is VERY important. If you haven't, it probably won't make any sense to you, but the stats screen is still nice.

Out of curiosity, what does "normal games only" mean anyway? That you were playing on emu or on Retry mode?
Battle Is My Forte
@Enhasa: Is the $100 bounty only for Lufia 1? Or also for the other Lufia games?
Edit history:
DTaeKim: 2006-03-18 11:01:49 pm
Well, my level building spots are in the Alumina caves north of Marse.  It's accessible as soon as I have the boat, so I suppose it is prudent to level build earlier.

The cousins of Mad Knights don't call for help, actually.  The enemy in the Alumina caves that calls for help is the Straw Doll (or some cousin), and it can cast Curse, an instant death spell.  The experience it gives is average for the area, but nothing exceptional.
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
DTK, how is progress going? I don't know what it is, but all of a sudden people stopped working on the 3-4 runs that I was the most interested in, simultaneously. =/

Quote:
@Enhasa: Is the $100 bounty only for Lufia 1? Or also for the other Lufia games?

As I said originally, definitely only Lufia 1. And actually, I kinda regret it (see this), and honestly I wouldn't have offered any money if I still had my Lufia 1 cart. I stupidly thought I could offer money for the run instead, and I can play on emulator, but I still wish I had the cart, so that didn't help any. Tongue

Lufia 2 would be really fun to do. No way I'm paying anybody. I sure hope this isn't the reason why you're doing it though. Tongue
Spring Break kicked in, and since I was sort of burned out from college, I decided to take a break.  I'll be plugging away as soon as my keyboard is fixed, which is the other reason I haven't made much progress.

Enhasa, I don't care if you pay or not.  You've resurrected my love for the series, which I nearly forgot.  Thanks.
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
Ya, I know what you mean. It was nice to just drop everything and get away for a week. Hopefully this is everyone else's excuse as well. Tongue

Well, I'm a man of my word, and you're very gracious, so I have what I think is a good solution. How about I give you the money, and you buy me a copy to show your appreciation. As in, I take the $100, buy myself a cart, and Paypal you the rest of the money?
Edit history:
DTaeKim: 2006-03-29 01:15:14 am
Well, I don't have Paypal, but it's still a deal.  Get yourself the game and relive the greatness that is the Lufia series.  And get me Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals.  :p
Edit history:
Enhasa: 2006-03-29 01:20:49 am
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
You gotta know someone with a Paypal account? I AM getting you this money btw. You're not gonna talk me into backing out of it. Tongue

Edit: Apparently you ninja edited! Ok, here is the deal. I can probably get cheaper from ebay, but I used Amazon as a guide. Lufia 1 is starting from $54.95, and Lufia 2 is starting from $41.95. How lucky, this adds up to ~$100. I can get both the carts, and get the Lufia 2 mailed to you? How about that?
Sounds fine.  In other news, I got some more progress.

Tower of Light
Items to be Found: Undead Ring, Stone Cure, Large Shield, Great Axe, Plate Cap, Silver Robe, Might Helmet
Get Might Helmet

Marse
Rest
4th Run Save – 2:54
Hero: 20, Lufia: 19, Aguro: 18, Jerin: 21

Epro
Enter and leave
Warp to Marse

Herat
Items to be Found: Great Potion, Mind Potion, Power Potion
Talk to the king

Cave East of Heart
Items to be Found: Revive, Engage Ring, Purple Newt

Lyden
Items to be Found: Miracle

Herat
Items to be Found: Miracle x2, Alumina, Royal Statue, Plum Cider, Ex Potion, Gloom Voice, Carbo Sword, Silver Robe, Tower Shield, Carbo Helm, Mach Heels, Pot, Fry Pan
Talk to the cook
Talk to the king
4th Run Save – 3:04
Hero: 21, Lufia: 20, Aguro: 19, Jerin: 21

Frederia
Purchase Grand Blade, Carbo Plate x2, Clear Silk x2, Carbo Helm
Warp to Grenoble

Grenoble
Talk to clerk in Old Cave lobby

Old Cave Level 5
Items to be Found: Smoke Ball, Luck Blade, Ex Potion, 500 Gold Pieces, Power Potion, Frost Ring, Battle Axe, Golden Pawn, Miracle
Find Cooper

Grenoble
Rest
Return Golden Pawn for 3000 Gold Pieces
Purchase Smoke Ball x40
4th Run Save – 3:08
Hero: 21, Lufia: 20, Aguro: 19, Jerin: 21
Warp to Marse

Marse
Sail to Elba Island

Elba Island
Warp to Ulupp Island

Ulupp Island
Items to be Found: Dragon Egg, Ex Potion, Speed Potion, HiPower Ring
Flip switch
Warp to Elba Island

Elba Island
Items to be Found: Mind Potion x2, Smoke Ball, HiDaze Ring, Ex Magic, Miracle, Alumina, Silver Rod, Spell Potion
Warp to Elba Island

Elba Island
Items to be Found: Silver Wrist, Alumina, Silver Plate, Miracle
Warp to Ulupp Island

Elba Island
Items to be Found: Silver Armor, Ex Potion
Flip switch

Warp to Ulupp Island
Items to be Found: Alumina
Warp to Carbis

Carbis
Talk to Shaia
Rest
2nd Run Carbis - 3:58 (Before Tower of Light)
3rd Run Bakku - 3:42 (Before Tower of Light, after Herat)
Hero: 21, Lufia: 20, Aguro: 19, Jerin: 21
4th Run Carbis – 3:19 (Before Tower of Light)
Hero: 22, Lufia: 21, Aguro: 20, Jerin: 22
Warp to Frederia

Frederia
Purchase Carbo Shield x2, Carbo Cap, Sonic Heels x2, Sword Shoes x2

Marse
Use Foul Water and level build

Bakku
Rest
Save – 3:28
Hero: 24, Lufia: 23, Aguro: 22, Jerin: 23

Tower of Light
Items to be Found: Gloom Voice
Guardian
Hero: 24, Lufia: 24, Aguro: 23, Jerin: 23

Marse
4th Run Save – 3:47
Hero: 25, Lufia: 24, Aguro: 23, Jerin: 24

Guardian
Hero: 21, Lufia: 21, Aguro: 19, Jerin: 21
Guardian
Hero: 22, Lufia: 22, Aguro: 20, Jerin: 22

2nd Run Linze - 4:10
3rd Run Linze - 3:54
Hero: 22, Lufia: 21, Aguro: 20, Jerin: 22
4th Run Linze – 3:39
Hero: 25, Lufia: 24, Aguro: 22, Jerin: 24

Island
Items to be Found: Alumina, Dragon Egg, Wave Ring
Talk to Clack

Marse
4th Run Save – 3:43
Hero: 25, Lufia: 24, Aguro: 23, Jerin: 24

Loire Island
Items to be Found: Miracle, Alumina, Foul Water, Power Potion, Spell Potion
Talk to Brant

Carbis
Trigger cutscene

Marse
Rest
4th Run Save – 3:50
Hero: 26, Lufia: 25, Aguro: 23, Jerin: 24

Elba Island
Use Foul Water and level build

Marse
4th Run Save – 4:00 (Before Pirates)
Hero: 28, Lufia: 27, Aguro: 25, Jerin: 25

2nd Run Marse - 4:17 (Before Alumina Quest)
3rd Run Marse - 4:00 (Before Alumina Quest)
Hero: 22, Lufia: 22, Aguro: 20, Jerin: 22

2nd Run Frederia - 4:51 (Before final Alumina)
3rd Run Frederia - 4:40 (Before Pirates)
Hero: 28, Lufia: 27, Aguro: 25, Jerin: 25

2nd Run Marse - 5:02 (Before Pirates)
2nd Run Pirates - Hero: 29, Lufia: 28, Aguro: 26, Jerin: 26
3rd Run Pirates - Hero: 28, Lufia: 27, Aguro: 25, Jerin: 26
4th Run Pirates – Hero: 28, Lufia: 27, Aguro: 25, Jerin: 25

Time saved: 40 minutes
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
Hmm, so you're on pace for 5:34 minus any improvements in the last 20% or so, which would extrapolate to 5:24. Sounds good! Go all out in the real run (and tighten up your leveling... more below), and the 5 hours I estimated originally might not be too far off.

Did you ever find good harvesting? And make sure you're always leveling at the right times, and at the right places, i.e. what I said several posts ago.


To refresh, at each moment in the entire main game, there is an optimal leveling place. String these individual moments together (think calculus?), and you end up with blocks of these optimal places. There will be a lot of them, because usually when you clear a dungeon, that'll open up a new area and a new optimal place. For each of these blocks then, you want to start leveling ASAP when you reach that block, and level your way up to: the minimal levels you need to barely be able to make it to the next block.

This should work for every game that involves leveling. I'll use FF2 as an easy example. There's an optimal leveling place throughout the game; an example is after Paladin Cecil, where the best place to level up is Mt Ordeal due to enemies giving decent XP and being weak to Holy and dying fast. However, the current levels are sufficient to reach the next block, so no leveling, and repeat. Finally the Giant is reached, and the D Machin's become the optimal place for the rest of the game. So the final block goes from the Giant to the end. So as soon as you reach the block, the best thing to do is level up until the block can be completed, i.e. the rest of the game.

People talk about coasting; it has nothing to do with coasting. If you ever are having an easy time beating bosses, it is either because your game is too easy or because you are in a large block and have done all the necessary leveling already, as in the PNEOP from FF1. Coasting as most people mean it, is a bad idea.
I finally understood what you meant with the optimization of levels.  I specifically noted locations where I must level build in order to survive the next boss (or series of bosses).  Else, the battles that are inevitable from Sweet Waters are enough to level me up for the next boss.  The levels I denoted in my notes are the ones that I believe are feasible to beat the boss.  It can probably be done at lower levels, but not without constant healing and the compromise of funds for better equipment.  In the end, I lose time if I try to run through an area underleveled.  The area near Odel is a good indication of this.