PSO ep1

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2007-08-13 05:06:30 am

2007-08-13 05:06:14 am

Zelda Scientist®

yea, try to see if the purple shots can hit you and knock you down to make it so that the mines dont hit... that could be a nice little trick if it works.

dexter

2007-08-14 08:27:08 am

Another two attempts were crushed by rocks. If anyone has a better idea than waiting in a corner I would be grateful to hear them now since this is getting frustrating.

In my last attempt I got bad maps but it would still have been a good time since I found so many fluids that I got to the boss teleporter without shopping.

D A P

Edit history:

D A P: 2007-08-15 03:53:09 am

2007-08-15 03:04:14 am

Would "stacking" -having more than 9 itmes in a pile, 99 is max I think- items be allowed for this run, I'm pretty sure its just a trick/glitch ?
I don't know how to do it myself, but it shouldn't be to hard to find on the net, I will look.
Oh.. I think you need a Photon Drop to do the trick. (and is it true the rares won't drop if you do this glitch, even in OFFline?)

Is each area to a dungeon random, in other words if you get a pattern1 for F1 is the pattern for F2 just as random if F1 was a pattern2?
I'm pretty sure every single areas level is random, but I just want to be sure, thanks.

JoChi

2007-08-15 09:59:12 am

Quote:

Another two attempts were crushed by rocks. If anyone has a better idea than waiting in a corner I would be grateful to hear them now since this is getting frustrating.

I like to say there's a way. Buts sadly, it's random. The only way to surely dodge it is to use your PB.
I do have this strange believe that hiding in the same location every time is bad. So I change locations between odd and even rock falls. It's probably no more than superstition though :P.

DAP:
Yes, as far as I know, what map you got before has no influence on what map you will get next.

dexter

2007-08-15 12:17:14 pm

I don't know this item stacking glitch but I don't see why it shouldn't be allowed. Getting a photon drop and enough money to do something useful would be painful in a new game though (although I vaguely remember having found a photon drop in normal forest in one of my test runs). Would probably be more useful in a new game+ ultimate run Wink

I did only one cave attempt yesterday (guess what fell on my head). Time would have been okay with gizonde as bonus. I don't know whether I just have bad luck here but during my tests I defeated De Rol Le three times in a row, and at that time he did four rock attacks per fight instead of just three. I checked the videos and looked where the rocks fall into the water but I didn't see a pattern.
BTW, it might actually be possible to beat him before he gets on the raft for the seventh time but probably not before his third rock attack, so no need to take unnecessary risks.

I am not sure what influences which maps you get but from my experience they might not be evenly distributed. In forest 2 I got maps 1 and 2 more often than map 3. In caves I got the same set of maps in caves 2 and 3 afer map 1-2 in several test runs in a row but now I get different maps all the time, so it might after all be superstition.

I don't know this item stacking glitch but I don't see why it shouldn't be allowed. Getting a photon drop and enough money to do something useful would be painful in a new game though (although I vaguely remember having found a photon drop in normal forest in one of my test runs). Would probably be more useful in a new game+ ultimate run ;)

I did only one cave attempt yesterday (guess what fell on my head). Time would have been okay with gizonde as bonus. I don't know whether I just have bad luck here but during my tests I defeated De Rol Le three times in a row, and at that time he did four rock attacks per fight instead of just three. I checked the videos and looked where the rocks fall into the water but I didn't see a pattern.
BTW, it might actually be possible to beat him before he gets on the raft for the seventh time but probably not before his third rock attack, so no need to take unnecessary risks.

I am not sure what influences which maps you get but from my experience they might not be evenly distributed. In forest 2 I got maps 1 and 2 more often than map 3. In caves I got the same set of maps in caves 2 and 3 afer map 1-2 in several test runs in a row but now I get different maps all the time, so it might after all be superstition.

nate

Edit history:

nate: 2007-08-15 05:19:41 pm

2007-08-15 05:18:55 pm

have you tried counting frames from when you load to when you enter the teleporter and to when you materialize in a map? could be a "divisible by x" thing or could be just every 3 seconds or something. that could explain getting some more often than others and on top of that would mean you could control which map you get. sonic team has been known to do the odd second/even second thing before (chemical plant zone tubes in sonic 2) and so that's why i single out that one method.

edit: also it occurs to me it could be using the dreamcast's clock instead of your total play time.

dexter

Edit history:

dexter: 2007-08-16 01:53:09 pm

2007-08-16 03:55:07 am

I examined a few videos without results (although I must admit that I didn't spend too much time on it today). I usually arrive at the pioneer 2 teleporter in a timeframe of a few frames so it is most likely not "every x seconds". Play time seconds or something similar is probably out either since I restarted from the same save file very often. Seconds of the system clock or play time might of course be a factor but it would be difficult to control this reliably if a resolution of more than a second would be required.

I experimented during my test runs with setting the system clock to different times but in the end it didn't seem to have much of an effect. Still, it would be a great help if there was a way to control which maps to get so I am going to spend more time on this.

Now the good news:
After some more hours of cave running I beat De Rol Le for the second time today. If you want to know why I did him twice I kindly refer you to the "Most frustrating thing while speedrunning" thread.

Caves 1 were very smooth and beat my old record by 11 seconds. Caves 2 didn't have many mistakes and looks good as well but I was surprised to see that it was 19 seconds slower than my record. I am not sure where I lost all that time but I had to collect relatively much stuff and sometimes Pofuilly Slimes took a good deal of time to get out (you can easily waste 10 seconds here in a single round if you have bad luck) so I guess things add up. Caves 3 were again pretty good. Although I had to collect much stuff and didn't get foie 2 in the shop (which allows me to foie - barta evil sharks and saves a little time against pan arms) I beat my old record by 2 seconds. I only skimmed over the video but if my memory serves me right I reached the boss teleporter without getting knocked down a single time.

This is unfortunately where the bad part of the segment begins. I messed up in the shop (almost left with only 8 monofluids instead of 9) and lost about 10 seconds. The De Rol Le fight was substandard, especially at the end when I got nervous and didn't want to get hit by a tentacle. Again, I lost here about 20 seconds.

However, even with all these mistakes the segment time is (barely) below 36 minutes and caves 1-3 should be nice to watch so I will probably keep the segment. I don't feel like doing caves over and over again just to improve a very random 35:xx segment by 20 seconds. Furthermore, even with another minute for shopping and talking this run is already 17 minutes ahead of the old run so it can't be that bad after all Wink

EDIT: IIRC I profited from a digrinder in caves 1 in my record caves 2 run and collected only items that didn't cost me any time so I would need a lot of luck to match that time.

I examined a few videos without results (although I must admit that I didn't spend too much time on it today). I usually arrive at the pioneer 2 teleporter in a timeframe of a few frames so it is most likely not "every x seconds". Play time seconds or something similar is probably out either since I restarted from the same save file very often. Seconds of the system clock or play time might of course be a factor but it would be difficult to control this reliably if a resolution of more than a second would be required.

I experimented during my test runs with setting the system clock to different times but in the end it didn't seem to have much of an effect. Still, it would be a great help if there was a way to control which maps to get so I am going to spend more time on this.

Now the good news:
After some more hours of cave running I beat De Rol Le for the second time today. If you want to know why I did him twice I kindly refer you to the "Most frustrating thing while speedrunning" thread.

Caves 1 were very smooth and beat my old record by 11 seconds. Caves 2 didn't have many mistakes and looks good as well but I was surprised to see that it was 19 seconds slower than my record. I am not sure where I lost all that time but I had to collect relatively much stuff and sometimes Pofuilly Slimes took a good deal of time to get out (you can easily waste 10 seconds here in a single round if you have bad luck) so I guess things add up. Caves 3 were again pretty good. Although I had to collect much stuff and didn't get foie 2 in the shop (which allows me to foie - barta evil sharks and saves a little time against pan arms) I beat my old record by 2 seconds. I only skimmed over the video but if my memory serves me right I reached the boss teleporter without getting knocked down a single time.

This is unfortunately where the bad part of the segment begins. I messed up in the shop (almost left with only 8 monofluids instead of 9) and lost about 10 seconds. The De Rol Le fight was substandard, especially at the end when I got nervous and didn't want to get hit by a tentacle. Again, I lost here about 20 seconds.

However, even with all these mistakes the segment time is (barely) below 36 minutes and caves 1-3 should be nice to watch so I will probably keep the segment. I don't feel like doing caves over and over again just to improve a very random 35:xx segment by 20 seconds. Furthermore, even with another minute for shopping and talking this run is already 17 minutes ahead of the old run so it can't be that bad after all ;)

EDIT: IIRC I profited from a digrinder in caves 1 in my record caves 2 run and collected only items that didn't cost me any time so I would need a lot of luck to match that time.

JoChi

Edit history:

JoChi: 2007-08-17 10:40:12 am

2007-08-17 05:29:51 am

Great Job. That's a great time. I just finish recording my cave run too. Despite IMO a great run and beating the boss at ~~6th~~ landing (before 4th darkroom), my save time is 58 minutes. My segment time is 45 minutes.

Edit: apparently I can't count, coz if I beat the boss right before the 4th darkroom, that would be 8th landing, not 6th. Now the time made alot more sense...

I had the feeling force is faster than hunter thru what you said, but seeing the actual time difference still shocks me. Keep up the good work. Now I must see your run to learn your secret Wink

dexter

2007-08-18 03:51:03 am

I started practicing mines again. Did only one run though. The two garanz before the boss teleporter could be a pain. They killed me several times during my earlier test runs. It is not hard to let them destroy themselfes but I tend to get a hit by the other one. Either they have a high critical hit rate or I tend to get hit by two missilies. It could probably lure one garanz to a door, barta him, and leave the room before the missiles hit me but that would be pretty slow.

I got a great Vol Opt fight and defeated the first form in only 9 rounds. Although I managed to completely miss the red pillar (and get attacked three times) in two rounds in such a short fight it took only 274 seconds (from end of cutscene to last hit). This is still about 45 seconds slower than in Brightstar's run but I can do Vol Opt 2 in roughly 45 seconds (compared to 325 seconds for Brightstar). It barely survives the first round.

However, I doubt that I get such a fight in a real run again unless I can find a pattern in the the red pillar positions.

I started practicing mines again. Did only one run though. The two garanz before the boss teleporter could be a pain. They killed me several times during my earlier test runs. It is not hard to let them destroy themselfes but I tend to get a hit by the other one. Either they have a high critical hit rate or I tend to get hit by two missilies. It could probably lure one garanz to a door, barta him, and leave the room before the missiles hit me but that would be pretty slow.

I got a great Vol Opt fight and defeated the first form in only 9 rounds. Although I managed to completely miss the red pillar (and get attacked three times) in two rounds in such a short fight it took only 274 seconds (from end of cutscene to last hit). This is still about 45 seconds slower than in Brightstar's run but I can do Vol Opt 2 in roughly 45 seconds (compared to 325 seconds for Brightstar). It barely survives the first round.

However, I doubt that I get such a fight in a real run again unless I can find a pattern in the the red pillar positions.

dexter

2007-08-19 11:14:42 pm

Some random updates:
I am still checking out Mines maps and have refined my Vol Opt strategy. I tried my old idea of waiting between two holes again. If the red pillar appears in one of the holes I hit it now almost everytime in time (not sure what my problem was before). This is great since it makes the fight depend much less on luck. Another improvement is to not foie the red pillar before its first attack in a round (if it can't be destroyed). That way I have another try in the same round. Vol Opt 2 can be destroyed before it launches its rockets for the second time Smiley

After defeating Vol Opt it is actually necessary to enter ruins. It is not enough to enter the passage with the portal or to take the teleporter to pioneer 2.

Nothing definite regarding maps yet, except that mines 2-3-2 is out (four packs of dubchics and three garanz, which still keep killing me).

Digger/HPs start to appear in the shop at level 11. With at least one from mines and one from the shopping segment before ruins I can probably get by without extra Digger/HP-segments (which reduces the number of segments to 9).

Fortunately I got already a wand (MST+5) from De Rol Le. I need one to be able to cast rafoie at level 13. It would be a little annoying if I had to luck manipulate the shop into getting a wand, rafoie, and a digger/hp (rafoie is pretty rare).

Some random updates:
I am still checking out Mines maps and have refined my Vol Opt strategy. I tried my old idea of waiting between two holes again. If the red pillar appears in one of the holes I hit it now almost everytime in time (not sure what my problem was before). This is great since it makes the fight depend much less on luck. Another improvement is to not foie the red pillar before its first attack in a round (if it can't be destroyed). That way I have another try in the same round. Vol Opt 2 can be destroyed before it launches its rockets for the second time :)

After defeating Vol Opt it is actually necessary to enter ruins. It is not enough to enter the passage with the portal or to take the teleporter to pioneer 2.

Nothing definite regarding maps yet, except that mines 2-3-2 is out (four packs of dubchics and three garanz, which still keep killing me).

Digger/HPs start to appear in the shop at level 11. With at least one from mines and one from the shopping segment before ruins I can probably get by without extra Digger/HP-segments (which reduces the number of segments to 9).

Fortunately I got already a wand (MST+5) from De Rol Le. I need one to be able to cast rafoie at level 13. It would be a little annoying if I had to luck manipulate the shop into getting a wand, rafoie, and a digger/hp (rafoie is pretty rare).

nate

Edit history:

nate: 2007-08-20 01:29:48 am

2007-08-20 01:29:34 am

ok cool. sounds like you are making good progress. again i will say that this is one of my most anticipated runs this year so far.

i wonder how many people will appreciate how insane it is.

D A P

Edit history:

D A P: 2007-08-20 03:48:59 am

2007-08-20 03:45:36 am

Oh yeah! This is one of my favorite games, so I am also really excited about this run!!
There are very few games on the "Game List" here at SDA that I have actually completed myself.

I've been told it is possible to go through locked doors with a Saber (doing a normal 3-hit on the door) on the Gamecube version. Anyone want to test for me, or I can.

JoChi

2007-08-20 09:14:08 am

dexter:

Just out of curiosity, you do destroy the lightning rod at the ceiling when you fight Vol Opt form 1 right? Coz without the lightning rod, the pillar will cause static paralysis on itself when it attacks, giving you more time to attack it.

Of course, if the pillar doesn't have a chance to attack, than the lightning rod is just a decoration anyway...

dexter

2007-08-20 10:23:51 pm

I destroy it but only to avoid that I get attacked twice in the first "half round". If I can make my first hit in time the red pillar is finished since I hit it again and again and disrupt its attack. If i am not fast enough I can make only one or two hits (which don't really matter).

Quote:

I've been told it is possible to go through locked doors with a Saber (doing a normal 3-hit on the door) on the Gamecube version. Anyone want to test for me, or I can.

I tested it briefly but it doesn't seem to work. Would be strange to let this slip through after they fixed the dreamcast door walking glitch anyway.

Paulygon

2007-08-25 08:20:30 am

I like to watch

Chalk up another one for those who can't wait to see this completed. Smiley

Good work is being done here and I wanted to add my encouragement. Good luck with this!

dexter

2007-08-26 01:56:17 am

Thanks.

The last days were pretty busy and I could do only a few map timing runs, but now I just got a pretty good mines run. Save time is 1:24, one minute faster than anticipated and 35 minutes faster than the old run Smiley

Funny thing is that this was not supposed to be a serious run and has a few mistakes (the most ridiculous being that I waited at the beginning of mines 1 for 12 seconds to lazily check my notes whether it would be worth it to time this particular map again.) This quickly changed when I found zonde 3 in one of the first crated I destroyed. This allows me to kill gillchics in two hits and thus makes a big difference. I ran in a few traps I could have avoided if I had memorized their position and got in a little trouble with a group of dubchics and sinow beats each. On the other hand, I got a lot of quick money (trigrinder and scape doll), and although I was a monofluid short at the end and had to use a telepipe a few exp points before I reached level 11 my luck held and I got gizonde and a Digger/HP at my last shop visit before Vol Opt. Despite the mistakes this was about 1.5 minutes faster than my previous best time.

Vol Opt 1 was very nice, I beat him in 8 rounds. Could even have been 7 but I messed up in one round although I stood at the right spot. Still this fight was very good which is important since with my new tactic this is definitely a show piece of the run :).
Vol Opt 2 was bad but I lost only 11 seconds compared to my best time (40 seconds). To get such a time I would have to hit him four times between two stomp attacks though which seems to be too risky for just a few seconds in a segments that depends so much on luck. I wouldn't even have needed the difluids I bought. Usually I need 1-2 difluids but this time 8 monofluids would have been enough.

I am going to do at least one more serious run to compare the times but I am pretty sure that my luck with zonde, money, and vol opt outweigh my mistakes. The money alone probably allows me to do one less shopping tour in ruins which saves another minute.

I need about 950 exp points to level up (and be able to use rafoie) which is significantly more than expected. However, since I have so much money I could afford a Priest/HP and be able to use rafoie immediately (which probably saves much more time than 4 difluids). Manipulating the shop into giving me rafoie, Digger/HP, and Priest/Mind is not going to be fun but could be well worth it. An alternative would be to get gifoie and three more difluids instead of Priest/Mind but I doubt that it is faster.
I could have gotten all this even cheaper. If I hadn't forgotten that I found a mind material somewhere in the mines I could have fed 5 monofluids to my mag (before the last shop visit and after defeating vol opt). Now it is too late but you can't have everything Wink

Thanks.

The last days were pretty busy and I could do only a few map timing runs, but now I just got a pretty good mines run. Save time is 1:24, one minute faster than anticipated and 35 minutes faster than the old run :)
Funny thing is that this was not supposed to be a serious run and has a few mistakes (the most ridiculous being that I waited at the beginning of mines 1 for 12 seconds to lazily check my notes whether it would be worth it to time this particular map again.) This quickly changed when I found zonde 3 in one of the first crated I destroyed. This allows me to kill gillchics in two hits and thus makes a big difference. I ran in a few traps I could have avoided if I had memorized their position and got in a little trouble with a group of dubchics and sinow beats each. On the other hand, I got a lot of quick money (trigrinder and scape doll), and although I was a monofluid short at the end and had to use a telepipe a few exp points before I reached level 11 my luck held and I got gizonde and a Digger/HP at my last shop visit before Vol Opt. Despite the mistakes this was about 1.5 minutes faster than my previous best time.

Vol Opt 1 was very nice, I beat him in 8 rounds. Could even have been 7 but I messed up in one round although I stood at the right spot. Still this fight was very good which is important since with my new tactic this is definitely a show piece of the run :).
Vol Opt 2 was bad but I lost only 11 seconds compared to my best time (40 seconds). To get such a time I would have to hit him four times between two stomp attacks though which seems to be too risky for just a few seconds in a segments that depends so much on luck. I wouldn't even have needed the difluids I bought. Usually I need 1-2 difluids but this time 8 monofluids would have been enough.

I am going to do at least one more serious run to compare the times but I am pretty sure that my luck with zonde, money, and vol opt outweigh my mistakes. The money alone probably allows me to do one less shopping tour in ruins which saves another minute.

I need about 950 exp points to level up (and be able to use rafoie) which is significantly more than expected. However, since I have so much money I could afford a Priest/HP and be able to use rafoie immediately (which probably saves much more time than 4 difluids). Manipulating the shop into giving me rafoie, Digger/HP, and Priest/Mind is not going to be fun but could be well worth it. An alternative would be to get gifoie and three more difluids instead of Priest/Mind but I doubt that it is faster.
I could have gotten all this even cheaper. If I hadn't forgotten that I found a mind material somewhere in the mines I could have fed 5 monofluids to my mag (before the last shop visit and after defeating vol opt). Now it is too late but you can't have everything ;)

nate

2007-08-26 07:30:52 am

holy crap. it's thrilling. thanks for the update.

dexter

Edit history:

dexter: 2007-08-28 03:55:57 am

2007-08-28 03:51:20 am

Should I ever have to run mines again I will settle for mag feeding no matter whether I get mind material or not. You have to do at most one round of feeding while waiting at the shop. And you save a lot of money. And you don't have to do that stupid shopping segment 185 times Wink

I didn't have enough money left to buy a barrier but that shouldn't be a problem anymore after one or two shopping breaks in ruins. I could have sold a Resist/Flame but it is not guaranteed that they sell a barrier and without one I need the EFR bonus to survive the fire attack of a chaos sorcerer. Usually they don't get me before I destroy their crystals with two rafoie blasts but I wanted to be on the safe side.

Rabarta is strong enough to kill darvants in one hit so I could use the tactic to get behind Dark Falz and zonde him. I have to do more testing though since he killed me there two of three times today. He froze me and immediately used heaven punishment.

I got to DF2 once before running out of money but it is funny how the same mistake gets back at me again and again:

http://www.wongr.net/dexter/pso/dark-falz-HQ.mp4 (still broken in QT, sorry)

I had to look at the video to realize what hit me. Of course I have to remove the Priest/HP to make room for the fourth Digger/HP. Probably wouldn't have happened if I had still the MST bonus. In ruins 3 I have enough money to feed my mag though so this shouldn't be a problem.

Should I ever have to run mines again I will settle for mag feeding no matter whether I get mind material or not. You have to do at most one round of feeding while waiting at the shop. And you save a lot of money. And you don't have to do that stupid shopping segment 185 times ;)

I didn't have enough money left to buy a barrier but that shouldn't be a problem anymore after one or two shopping breaks in ruins. I could have sold a Resist/Flame but it is not guaranteed that they sell a barrier and without one I need the EFR bonus to survive the fire attack of a chaos sorcerer. Usually they don't get me before I destroy their crystals with two rafoie blasts but I wanted to be on the safe side.

Rabarta is strong enough to kill darvants in one hit so I could use the tactic to get behind Dark Falz and zonde him. I have to do more testing though since he killed me there two of three times today. He froze me and immediately used heaven punishment.

I got to DF2 once before running out of money but it is funny how the same mistake gets back at me again and again:

http://www.wongr.net/dexter/pso/dark-falz-HQ.mp4 (still broken in QT, sorry)

I had to look at the video to realize what hit me. Of course I have to remove the Priest/HP to make room for the fourth Digger/HP. Probably wouldn't have happened if I had still the MST bonus. In ruins 3 I have enough money to feed my mag though so this shouldn't be a problem.

JoChi

Edit history:

JoChi: 2007-08-28 09:29:54 am

2007-08-28 09:18:49 am

lol, after you healed, I wanted to scream, "you don't have enough HP!!"

So, I notice you still have a "mag". I take it you never feed your mag up to this point?

On a completely different subject, anyone know the formula to calculate physical damage?

I know there's a damage calculator at PSO-world (which means someone must have figure out the formula). I also found something that resembles a formula in Gfaqs. But I would still like to see a real formula, eg. (atp-def/2)*(1+photon%/100%)

dexter

Edit history:

dexter: 2007-08-28 04:44:25 pm

2007-08-28 11:06:26 am

Quote:

lol, after you healed, I wanted to scream, "you don't have enough HP!!"

So, I notice you still have a "mag". I take it you never feed your mag up to this point?

Yes. In forest and caves I simply don't have the money and there is no need to raise MST anyway. In mines I should have raised MST up to three times depending on mind material. Right before and after Vol Opt I wouldn't even have lost time.

The only MST boosts I need are for rafoie at level 12 and 132hp resta at level 16 so there is no point in feeding beyond that.

Quote:

On a completely different subject, anyone know the formula to calculate physical damage?

I know there's a damage calculator at PSO-world (which means someone must have figure out the formula). I also found something that resembles a formula in Gfaqs. But I would still like to see a real formula, eg. (atp-def/2)*(1+photon%/100%)

I have no idea but are you sure that photon energy increases melee damage? In that case it might be better not to use a PB until the next shop visit but in the end it comes down to how many hits you need to kill an enemy.

[quote]lol, after you healed, I wanted to scream, "you don't have enough HP!!"

So, I notice you still have a "mag".  I take it you never feed your mag up to this point?[/quote]

Yes. In forest and caves I simply don't have the money and there is no need to raise MST anyway. In mines I should have raised MST up to three times depending on mind material. Right before and after Vol Opt I wouldn't even have lost time.

The only MST boosts I need are for rafoie at level 12 and 132hp resta at level 16 so there is no point in feeding beyond that.

[quote]On a completely different subject, anyone know the formula to calculate physical damage?

I know there's a damage calculator at PSO-world (which means someone must have figure out the formula).  I also found something that resembles a formula in Gfaqs.  But I would still like to see a real formula, eg. (atp-def/2)*(1+photon%/100%)[/quote]

I have no idea but are you sure that photon energy increases melee damage? In that case it might be better not to use a PB until the next shop visit but in the end it comes down to how many hits you need to kill an enemy.

JoChi

Edit history:

JoChi: 2007-08-29 06:33:19 pm

2007-08-28 11:47:08 pm

Quote:

I have no idea but are you sure that photon energy increases melee damage? In that case it might be better not to use a PB until the next shop visit but in the end it comes down to how many hits you need to kill an enemy.

I meant the photon% that come with the weapon, like native, a. beast, machine, and dark, and that eq. is just an example.

I don't know the exact formula. Although the eq. I found suggest it is: (original damage)*(1+photon%/100%)

btw, you are using resta because you don't have money to buy mates?

edit: upon careful examination of the damage calculator, % only effect equipment atp, ie. base atp + eq. atp * (1+%/100%)= total atp.

dexter

2007-08-29 02:02:54 pm

Quote:

I meant the photon% that come with the weapon, like native, a. beast, machine, and dark, and that eq. is just an example.

I don't know the exact formula. Although the eq. I found suggest it is: (original damage)*(1+photon%/100%)

Yes, makes sense. Stuff like a random factor or critical hits are missing though.

Quote:

btw, you are using resta because you don't have money to buy mates?

At the end of ruins 3 I probably have enough money to buy dimates but I have not yet looked into details like this.

dexter

Edit history:

dexter: 2007-08-30 03:06:42 am

2007-08-30 03:03:53 am

Some ruins updates:

With a certain set of maps I reached DF at level 15 which is not enough unless I find two HP materials or a General/HP. Both are unlikely so it seems that I have to note both times and experience for each map :-/

Getting behind DF1 does not work reliably. I can hit him a lot in the beginning but he tends to kill me there with a rabarta + something else combo and when he moves it is difficult to stay behind him. Furthermore, with this tactic rabarta is necessary to quickly dispose of darvants (which make excellent lightning rods). Darvants are annoying since I have to heal after every hit (behind DF I can't see when he attacks).
My new tactic is to always move in front of the center mouth so that I can conveniently barta all darvants right when they leave the mouth. This takes very little time and when all darvants are killed I can zonde DF as efficiently as when I am behind him. I defeated DF1 in less than two minutes this way.

DF2 is a little annoying when he decides to move around all the time but it seems that I can avoid a rabarta double hit when I run to the edge left or right of him when he attacks. Could have been luck though, I have to do more testing.

With one mind material I need to raise MST twice via mag feeding for 132hp resta. This is exactly what I would have needed for rafoie at level 12.

Some ruins updates:

With a certain set of maps I reached DF at level 15 which is not enough unless I find two HP materials or a General/HP. Both are unlikely so it seems that I have to note both times and experience for each map :-/

Getting behind DF1 does not work reliably. I can hit him a lot in the beginning but he tends to kill me there with a rabarta + something else combo and when he moves it is difficult to stay behind him. Furthermore, with this tactic rabarta is necessary to quickly dispose of darvants (which make excellent lightning rods). Darvants are annoying since I have to heal after every hit (behind DF I can't see when he attacks).
My new tactic is to always move in front of the center mouth so that I can conveniently barta all darvants right when they leave the mouth. This takes very little time and when all darvants are killed I can zonde DF as efficiently as when I am behind him. I defeated DF1 in less than two minutes this way.

DF2 is a little annoying when he decides to move around all the time but it seems that I can avoid a rabarta double hit when I run to the edge left or right of him when he attacks. Could have been luck though, I have to do more testing.

With one mind material I need to raise MST twice via mag feeding for 132hp resta. This is exactly what I would have needed for rafoie at level 12.

JoChi

Edit history:

JoChi: 2007-08-30 07:05:57 am

2007-08-30 04:26:57 am

Quote:

it seems that I can avoid a rabarta double hit when I run to the edge left or right of him when he attacks. Could have been luck though, I have to do more testing.

That's pretty much what I think too. But because he cast rabarta with his left arm, I only run ccw (to my left). I haven't got hit by a rabarta in my testing using this method. This works best if I start running as soon as DF sinks to cast magic. It means you will probably get hit by rafoie, but hopefully you don't die from that.

Incidentally, you know you can break free of the ice quicker by wiggling the analogue stick right? (yeah, i know you can make a bad joke from that sentence...) Last time I fought DF, the only thing I need to worry about is double rabarta, nothing else.

Also, which map was faster for you in Mine? I found mine1-3-1 to be ridiculously fast for me, much like that map in forest1. mine2 is pretty close between 1-1, 2-1, and 3-1.

P.S. While I haven't started testing for ruin, I do have the enemy counts (for shortest route) for ruin 1-3-2, 2-1-1, and 3-3-1. If you need them let me know. Also, for some of the ruin map (e.g. 3-2-1), there's more than one way to reach the destination. You might want to look into that as well.

[quote]it seems that I can avoid a rabarta double hit when I run to the edge left or right of him when he attacks. Could have been luck though, I have to do more testing.[/quote]

That's pretty much what I think too.  But because he cast rabarta with his left arm, I only run ccw (to my left).  I haven't got hit by a rabarta in my testing using this method.  This works best if I start running as soon as DF sinks to cast magic.  It means you will probably get hit by rafoie, but hopefully you don't die from that.

Incidentally, you know you can break free of the ice quicker by wiggling the analogue stick right?  (yeah, i know you can make a bad joke from that sentence...)  Last time I fought DF, the only thing I need to worry about is double rabarta, nothing else.

Also, which map was faster for you in Mine?  I found mine1-3-1 to be ridiculously fast for me, much like that map in forest1.  mine2 is pretty close between 1-1, 2-1, and 3-1.

P.S.  While I haven't started testing for ruin, I do have the enemy counts (for shortest route) for ruin 1-3-2, 2-1-1, and 3-3-1.  If you need them let me know.  Also, for some of the ruin map (e.g. 3-2-1), there's more than one way to reach the destination.  You might want to look into that as well.

dexter

2007-09-01 03:40:10 am

Does anyone know what's up here? I replied earlier today but it seems that my post got deleted. Fortunately I usually write (and keep) my messages in a real editor...

Quote:

That's pretty much what I think too. But because he cast rabarta with his left arm, I only run ccw (to my left). I haven't got hit by a rabarta in my testing using this method. This works best if I start running as soon as DF sinks to cast magic. It means you will probably get hit by rafoie, but hopefully you don't die from that.

Don't you get double hit or don't you get hit at all? If you don't get hit, how far do you run away? I just let him hit me once since I thought it wouldn't save time to run away far enough. Have to test it.

Quote:

Incidentally, you know you can break free of the ice quicker by wiggling the analogue stick right? (yeah, i know you can make a bad joke from that sentence...) Last time I fought DF, the only thing I need to worry about is double rabarta, nothing else.

Yes. With my latest DF1 tactic he seems to like a quick rafoie - rabarta combo and sometimes follows up with another rafoie. This is good since I get knocked down by rafoie and don't get hit by rabarta. I don't know whether he does this every time (when I was behind DF the first rafoie might have missed) but if this is the case and double rabarta can be avoided reliably (looks that way) there would not be much to fear from DF.

Quote:

Also, which map was faster for you in Mine? I found mine1-3-1 to be ridiculously fast for me, much like that map in forest1. mine2 is pretty close between 1-1, 2-1, and 3-1.

1-3-1 seems to be fastest. In my notes it looked good (not outstanding) but I just did it again and it seems that I lost about a minute in my run (I had 1-2-1). This means that I might be able to challange my time without zonde 3 if I try hard enough but I would still need a lot of luck to get the same amount of money (even with the ~1000 wasted credits because of Priest/Mind), gizonde, Digger/HP, and most importantly a good Vol Opt fight so I am not very inclined to do mines again at the moment.

In mines 2 2-1 (which I got in my run) was a lot faster for me than 1-1 but there might be some class differences. There are also some tactics that might make a difference. For instance in 1-1 you don't have to kill the dubchics in the room with the single garanz. On the other hand they are pretty annoying even before the garanz appears.

Quote:

P.S. While I haven't started testing for ruin, I do have the enemy counts (for shortest route) for ruin 1-3-2, 2-1-1, and 3-3-1. If you need them let me know. Also, for some of the ruin map (e.g. 3-2-1), there's more than one way to reach the destination. You might want to look into that as well.

Doesn't hurt to have the numbers if you have them right there but since I need time and exp counts and there are some differences between classes I will have to test all maps myself anyway. Delsabers were very annoying when I played as hunter but with barta and quick FOnewearl casting they are complete pushovers even in groups. On the other hand I get probably more slowed down by big packs of La/So Dimenians.

Gunners tend to be annoying (probably more as hunter than as force) but can be skipped in some rooms. Sometimes however, they are outright useful Wink

http://www.wongr.net/dexter/pso/delsaber-HQ.mp4

I hope this will look as good in the run.

I had a busy week again and couldn't do any timings since my last post but ruins 1-3-2 and 2-3-1 look promising so far. There are still lots of maps I haven't tested though.

Does anyone know what's up here? I replied earlier today but it seems that my post got deleted. Fortunately I usually write (and keep) my messages in a real editor...

[quote]

That's pretty much what I think too.  But because he cast rabarta with his left arm, I only run ccw (to my left).  I haven't got hit by a rabarta in my testing using this method.  This works best if I start running as soon as DF sinks to cast magic.  It means you will probably get hit by rafoie, but hopefully you don't die from that.[/quote]

Don't you get double hit or don't you get hit at all? If you don't get hit, how far do you run away? I just let him hit me once since I thought it wouldn't save time to run away far enough. Have to test it.

[quote]Incidentally, you know you can break free of the ice quicker by wiggling the analogue stick right?  (yeah, i know you can make a bad joke from that sentence...)  Last time I fought DF, the only thing I need to worry about is double rabarta, nothing else.[/quote]

Yes. With my latest DF1 tactic he seems to like a quick rafoie - rabarta combo and sometimes follows up with another rafoie. This is good since I get knocked down by rafoie and don't get hit by rabarta. I don't know whether he does this every time (when I was behind DF the first rafoie might have missed) but if this is the case and double rabarta can be avoided reliably (looks that way) there would not be much to fear from DF.

[quote]Also, which map was faster for you in Mine?  I found mine1-3-1 to be ridiculously fast for me, much like that map in forest1.  mine2 is pretty close between 1-1, 2-1, and 3-1.[/quote]

1-3-1 seems to be fastest. In my notes it looked good (not outstanding) but I just did it again and it seems that I lost about a minute in my run (I had 1-2-1). This means that I might be able to challange my time without zonde 3 if I try hard enough but I would still need a lot of luck to get the same amount of money (even with the ~1000 wasted credits because of Priest/Mind), gizonde, Digger/HP, and most importantly a good Vol Opt fight so I am not very inclined to do mines again at the moment.

In mines 2 2-1 (which I got in my run) was a lot faster for me than 1-1 but there might be some class differences. There are also some tactics that might make a difference. For instance in 1-1 you don't have to kill the dubchics in the room with the single garanz. On the other hand they are pretty annoying even before the garanz appears.

[quote]P.S.  While I haven't started testing for ruin, I do have the enemy counts (for shortest route) for ruin 1-3-2, 2-1-1, and 3-3-1.  If you need them let me know.  Also, for some of the ruin map (e.g. 3-2-1), there's more than one way to reach the destination.  You might want to look into that as well.[/quote]

Doesn't hurt to have the numbers if you have them right there but since I need time and exp counts and there are some differences between classes I will have to test all maps myself anyway. Delsabers were very annoying when I played as hunter but with barta and quick FOnewearl casting they are complete pushovers even in groups. On the other hand I get probably more slowed down by big packs of La/So Dimenians.

Gunners tend to be annoying (probably more as hunter than as force) but can be skipped in some rooms. Sometimes however, they are outright useful ;)

http://www.wongr.net/dexter/pso/delsaber-HQ.mp4

I hope this will look as good in the run.

I had a busy week again and couldn't do any timings since my last post but ruins 1-3-2 and 2-3-1 look promising so far. There are still lots of maps I haven't tested though.