PSO ep1

Edit history:

bmn: 2007-11-21 03:34:15 am

2007-11-21 03:34:02 am

As far as I remember, it's Barta that splits a slime. So does missing all three hits of a normal combo, but that's not a problem for Force.

JoChi

2007-11-21 03:35:34 am

Quote:

As far as I remember, it's Barta that splits a slime. So does missing all three hits of a normal combo, but that's not a problem for Force.

hm... i guess i remember wrong...

btw, it's hitting on the third hit of a normal combo that cause a slime to split.

bmn

2007-11-21 06:16:14 am

Ah, yos. Shows how long I haven't split a slime in PSO >_>

D A P

2007-11-21 07:04:42 am

Today is celebration day for dexter! Thank you for the super PSO run!

I only wish there could have been some text and or animation action. Dang, I didn't even think to put in a request for it when the run was being ran.

JoChi

Edit history:

JoChi: 2007-11-21 08:11:50 am

2007-11-21 07:22:18 am

my thoughts on dexter's run (continue):

mine:
-definitely lost a lot of time here. probably could have cut off 3 minutes just by improving this segment alone. ...ok, maybe 3 minutes is stretching it, but at least a minute.
-not knowing the "no-lock-on trick" definitely showed here. Props to you for circling garantz w/out the trick though Wink

mine2:
-when you are in the "red" room (around 18:00), using barta to knock them all down would definitely have saved you a bit of trouble.
-i am surprise you didn't use the door trick (getting out of the room) against 3 sinows. Of course, force seems to have an easier time against multiple sinows than hunter. Still, probably could have save you a bit of time hugging the floor.

boss:
-compare to hunter, form1 was slower but form2 is faster, but i think you know that already Wink

dexter

Edit history:

dexter: 2007-11-21 10:30:08 pm

2007-11-21 10:27:57 pm

In some of my attempts a slime split several times in a row (after each hit). Not sure what caused it though.

About weapon requirements: Strange, I was sure it works for ATK too. Must have dreamed that.

Vol Opt 1: I probably need a perfect fight to make it faster than in a HUcast run. It is still *way* faster than I initially thought it would be Smiley

JoChi

Edit history:

JoChi: 2007-11-23 03:01:38 pm

2007-11-22 11:54:39 am

Quote:

thoughts on the run so far:
forest 1
-nice monest strategy Smiley

-wow, i didn't know the wolf in the 2nd monster room only spaw when you pass thru certain location Shocked

. (if you don't know what i am talking about, you will as soon as my run is done). And that wolf gives me so much grief too...

forest2
-... crap, i didn't know you only need to kill those two monsters to open the door at the beginning. That may explains why my map2 was slower than map1... (same for the 2nd room...)

cave1
-shark might be just another boomer for force, but it takes great skill and timing for hunter to kill it effectively Cry

-hmm... zonde on nano dragon? have you tried barta instead? Might be more effective...

cave2
-hmm, i guess they did remove "foie cause slime to split"...
or i just remember wrong.
-nice, level up just as you got no tp left Grin

boss
-actually i mean the upper corner, not the lower corner where you were standing. but i am surprise it hit that many segment Shocked

-seriously, how did barta hit so many segment from that angle Shocked

(is still boggled by the fact...)
-is it possible to hit him immidiately after the laser attack with barta? that might be worth it...
-also, it might be possible to hit him with barta while he's jumping over the raft, not sure though...

O well, i think that's enough comment from me for tonight. i still got stuff to do Tongue

Quote:

my thoughts on dexter's run (continue):

mine:
-definitely lost a lot of time here. probably could have cut off 3 minutes just by improving this segment alone. ...ok, maybe 3 minutes is stretching it, but at least a minute.
-not knowing the "no-lock-on trick" definitely showed here. Props to you for circling garantz w/out the trick though Wink

mine2:
-when you are in the "red" room (around 18:00), using barta to knock them all down would definitely have saved you a bit of trouble.
-i am surprise you didn't use the door trick (getting out of the room) against 3 sinows. Of course, force seems to have an easier time against multiple sinows than hunter. Still, probably could have save you a bit of time hugging the floor.

boss:
-compare to hunter, form1 was slower but form2 is faster, but i think you know that already Wink

my thoughts on dexter's run (final):

Ruins:
-...wow, combat in ruins for hunter feels like a struggle for survival, yet force go through them so effortlessly. Shocked

Seriously, tech is broken. No wonder you only need half the time hunter need. Grin

-i love how all of the belra's punches just miss you Grin

-Again, not knowing the no-lock-on trick shows. Probably could save you all the trouble w/ traps. But this time around it didn't cost you any noticeable time.

-i am surprise you didn't use the heal ring 2 rooms before boss. Then again, you did use trifluid already, and you didn't seems to run out of TP at all. So I suppose that's the wise choice here.

boss:
-you are actually dodging the wrong direction i was explaining for rabarta. But since you still easily dodged them, i suppose it doesn't matter Grin

As the saying goes, All's well that ends well.

-lol, i hope you noticed you were 3 hp short of 131hp when you delivered the final blow. Cheesy

A great run all in all. Definitely still have room for improvement, but a great run never the less. Good job. I enjoyed watching this run.

[quote]thoughts on the run so far:
forest 1
-nice monest strategy :)
-wow, i didn't know the wolf in the 2nd monster room only spaw when you pass thru certain location :o . (if you don't know what i am talking about, you will as soon as my run is done).  And that wolf gives me so much grief too...

forest2
-... crap, i didn't know you only need to kill those two monsters to open the door at the beginning.  That may explains why my map2 was slower than map1... (same for the 2nd room...)

cave1
-shark might be just another boomer for force, but it takes great skill and timing for hunter to kill it effectively :'(
-hmm... zonde on nano dragon?  have you tried barta instead?  Might be more effective...

cave2
-hmm, i guess they did remove "foie cause slime to split"...
or i just remember wrong.
-nice, level up just as you got no tp left  ;D

boss
-actually i mean the upper corner, not the lower corner where you were standing.  but i am surprise it hit that many segment :o
-seriously, how did barta hit so many segment from that angle :o (is still boggled by the fact...)
-is it possible to hit him immidiately after the laser attack with barta?  that might be worth it...
-also, it might be possible to hit him with barta while he's jumping over the raft, not sure though...

O well, i think that's enough comment from me for tonight.  i still got stuff to do :P[/quote]
[quote]my thoughts on dexter's run (continue):

mine:
-definitely lost a lot of time here.  probably could have cut off 3 minutes just by improving this segment alone.  ...ok, maybe 3 minutes is stretching it, but at least a minute.
-not knowing the "no-lock-on trick" definitely showed here.  Props to you for circling garantz w/out the trick though ;)

mine2:
-when you are in the "red" room (around 18:00), using barta to knock them all down would definitely have saved you a bit of trouble.
-i am surprise you didn't use the door trick (getting out of the room) against 3 sinows.  Of course, force seems to have an easier time against multiple sinows than hunter.  Still, probably could have save you a bit of time hugging the floor.

boss:
-compare to hunter, form1 was slower but form2 is faster, but i think you know that already ;)[/quote]

my thoughts on dexter's run (final):

Ruins:
-...wow, combat in ruins for hunter feels like a struggle for survival, yet force go through them so effortlessly. :o 
Seriously, tech is broken.  No wonder you only need half the time hunter need. ;D

-i love how all of the belra's punches just miss you ;D

-Again, not knowing the no-lock-on trick shows.  Probably could save you all the trouble w/ traps.  But this time around it didn't cost you any noticeable time.
 
-i am surprise you didn't use the heal ring 2 rooms before boss.  Then again, you did use trifluid already, and you didn't seems to run out of TP at all.  So I suppose that's the wise choice here.

boss:
-you are actually dodging the wrong direction i was explaining for rabarta.  But since you still easily dodged them, i suppose it doesn't matter ;D  As the saying goes, All's well that ends well.

-lol, i hope you noticed you were 3 hp short of 131hp when you delivered the final blow. :D

A great run all in all.  Definitely still have room for improvement, but a great run never the less.  Good job.  I enjoyed watching this run.

DTaeKim

Edit history:

DTaeKim: 2007-11-22 05:01:18 pm

2007-11-22 05:01:07 pm

This makes me wonder if a HUnewearl may do better than a HUcast because of her tech abilities.

nate

Edit history:

nate: 2007-11-22 05:14:12 pm

2007-11-22 05:13:19 pm

very interesting point. i can think of a few places where the mst might be sufficient to do some major damage (de rol le, volt ops a la dexter's).

Lag.Com

2007-11-22 07:39:48 pm

sda loyalist

Definitely a HUnewearl would trash De Rol Le and Vol Opt, but I think there would be a bit of slowdown in the Ruins unless you got a good Partisan.

dexter

2007-11-22 08:43:02 pm

Quote:

-...wow, combat in ruins for hunter feels like a struggle for survival, yet force go through them so effortlessly. Shocked

Seriously, tech is broken. No wonder you only need half the time hunter do. Grin

With rafoie, barta 5, and zonde 5 ruins are really fun. The downside is that even with four Digger/HPs chaos sorcerers and dark belras kill me with a critical.

Quote:

-lol, i hope you noticed you were 3 hp short of 131hp when you delivered the final blow. Cheesy

Yes, I learned from past mistakes Wink

I would have used a monomate before heaven punishment. I wasn't sure how much longer the fight would take so I didn't want to "waste" my two last monomates.

Quote:

This makes me wonder if a HUnewearl may do better than a HUcast because of her tech abilities.

I am not so sure about that. Without FOnewearl damage boost and fast casting and with lower MST a HUnewearl would deal much less damage. Rafoie is out of reach and gizonde for vol opt 2 would only be available with four Prist/Minds. In ruins barta 5 or zonde 5 wouldn't be available either.

[quote]-...wow, combat in ruins for hunter feels like a struggle for survival, yet force go through them so effortlessly. :o 
Seriously, tech is broken.  No wonder you only need half the time hunter do. ;D[/quote]

With rafoie, barta 5, and zonde 5 ruins are really fun. The downside is that even with four Digger/HPs chaos sorcerers and dark belras kill me with a critical.

[quote]-lol, i hope you noticed you were 3 hp short of 131hp when you delivered the final blow. :D[/quote]

Yes, I learned from past mistakes ;)
I would have used a monomate before heaven punishment. I wasn't sure how much longer the fight would take so I didn't want to "waste" my two last monomates.

[quote]This makes me wonder if a HUnewearl may do better than a HUcast because of her tech abilities.[/quote]

I am not so sure about that. Without FOnewearl damage boost and fast casting and with lower MST a HUnewearl would deal much less damage. Rafoie is out of reach and gizonde for vol opt 2 would only be available with four Prist/Minds. In ruins barta 5 or zonde 5 wouldn't be available either.

JoChi

Edit history:

JoChi: 2007-11-23 02:55:08 pm

2007-11-22 09:22:04 pm

HuNl sounds interesting, but i foresee several obstacles:

Against De Rol Le, the benchmark to go by is defeat him before 4th dark room (achievable with HuCt). If HuNl's barta don't do enough damage, that's not going to be possible. Don't forget that lower MST also means lower TP. It's doubtful that HuNl will have enough TP to finish off De Rol Le w/ just tech when a force barely have enough. Not to mention FoNl can't reach the requirement to eqiup sword unless you raise your mag or grind some level.

In Ruins, since rafoie is out of reach for HuNl, that's one major time saver gone. Partisan's requirement is also way too high for HuNl, meaning HuNl will need to survive ruins with a sword. Sword's animation and ata is just horrible, and HuNl's ata is the lowest one amount all hunter. I have enough trouble with HuCast's 2nd lowest ata among hunter.

Still, having barta and zonde for delsaber and So Dimenian respectively would still be nice. Although in the case of So Dimenian, HuNl might not have any other choice. Her low ata will just make it impossible to deal w/ So Dimenian with melee attack.

In short, it be quite a different challenge from HuCast. Not sure if it would be faster though.

HuNl sounds interesting, but i foresee several obstacles:

Against De Rol Le, the benchmark to go by is defeat him before 4th dark room (achievable with HuCt).  If HuNl's barta don't do enough damage, that's not going to be possible.  Don't forget that lower MST also means lower TP.  It's doubtful that HuNl will have enough TP to finish off De Rol Le w/ just tech when a force barely have enough.  Not to mention FoNl can't reach the requirement to eqiup sword unless you raise your mag or grind some level.

In Ruins, since rafoie is out of reach for HuNl, that's one major time saver gone.  Partisan's requirement is also way too high for HuNl, meaning HuNl will need to survive ruins with a sword.  Sword's animation and ata is just horrible, and HuNl's ata is the lowest one amount all hunter.  I have enough trouble with HuCast's 2nd lowest ata among hunter.

Still, having barta and zonde for delsaber and So Dimenian respectively would still be nice.  Although in the case of So Dimenian, HuNl might not have any other choice.  Her low ata will just make it impossible to deal w/ So Dimenian with melee attack.

In short, it be quite a different challenge from HuCast.  Not sure if it would be faster though.

bmn

Edit history:

bmn: 2007-11-23 09:59:46 am

2007-11-23 09:59:02 am

I get the feeling that if you're going to use HUneweal over HUcast for the tech advantages, such a run would just end up being a muted, slow version of a Force run.

Also, there's nothing saying that a HUcast couldn't knock 30 minutes or so off the existing Hunter run by luck manipulating the same way as dexter did in the FOneweal run. Four segments to clear is a tough job for a fresh character.

JoChi

2007-11-23 02:52:33 pm

um... actually i have been working on the GC hucast run for sometime now (before the force run started even, but i am lazy Tongue

), and the estimated finish time seems to be 2:40 (which will be 30 minutes faster than the current ver.1 run). I might be able to get it under 2:30, but don't count on it

D A P

2007-11-24 02:48:14 am

Looks like a Ranger run will be the only thing missing soon.
I'll do some testing.

nate

2007-11-24 06:56:13 am

wow, that would be really interesting.

bmn

2007-11-24 11:04:50 am

Yeah, spread weapons have the potential to clear house nearly as much as Rafoie. If you can get the HP for Heaven's Punishment (wait... I just realised the acronym's HP o_O) I'd imagine it could surely be quicker than a Hunter run.

Which is weird because we originally figured HUcast was the only choice for a PSO Fresh/Normal speedrun...

JoChi

2007-11-24 11:53:47 am

Quote:

Yeah, spread weapons have the potential to clear house nearly as much as Rafoie. If you can get the HP for Heaven's Punishment (wait... I just realised the acronym's HP o_O) I'd imagine it could surely be quicker than a Hunter run.

Which is weird because we originally figured HUcast was the only choice for a PSO Fresh/Normal speedrun...

IMO spread weapon(shotgun) has horrible stat, range, and animation. It's just as bad as a sword, if not worse. Not to mention it doesn't appear until ruins.

bmn

2007-11-24 12:08:50 pm

I can imagine a spread being useful with some stat boosters (don't need the HP boosters until Falz, after all), maybe some quick switching between a single-target weapon and a spread to suit the current situation.

But yeah, never considered that it doesn't show up until Ruins.

dexter

2007-11-24 01:35:14 pm

It might be a problem to get a decent weapon in forest (probably from dragon). Forest is no problem but with normal weapons a ranger does very little damage in caves at level 4 (something around 3-4 for a RAmar IIRC).

Sorcerer88

2007-11-24 10:10:09 pm

I have no solution, but i admire the problem.

as far as i rememberer these burst-shot guns (mechgun) were quite powerful, and i think you can already get them as early as in caves. so, with a luck manipulation segment starting at caves-1.. why not.

JoChi

Edit history:

JoChi: 2007-11-24 11:31:45 pm

2007-11-24 11:26:46 pm

Mechgun don't appear until Mine. And the consensus among challenge mode player is that ranger's ATP is too low to make mechgun useful. Might be different in single player mode though. This is definitely one of the things that needs to be tested.

Weapon-wise, what I would do(not that i will) is use saber all the way until cave3, when autogun starts appearing. Then use autogun until ranger can equip brand or lockgun. Also, it might be worth hunting for gun with fire, thunder, or dim special attack. Fire and thunder deals semi-fix damage, which is useful with ranger's low ATP. Dim will be useful for some tougher enemy, although it depends on how often it succeed.

D A P

2007-11-25 08:32:23 pm

What about a Game+ run, anyone interested in that? I'd love to see a Force blow through each area on Normal! Sub-1hour maybe!
It makes me wish I would have leveled a Force to Lv.140 instead of a RAmar..
And I don't remember you guys saying you had any high level characters, so I'm thinking about asking at PSOworld for someone to do a PSO game+ normal Force run.

About the regular Ranger run though: RAcast is the most obvious choice. Resta or other techs wouldn't be need right? Since you can keep your distance and attack with a gun.

Lag.Com

2007-11-25 11:56:43 pm

sda loyalist

I don't think so. Quite a few things have ranged attacks. (though single Nano Dragons will pose no problems) Big groups of Canadine could be annoying though.

JoChi

2007-11-26 03:38:54 am

Quote:

About the regular Ranger run though: RAcast is the most obvious choice. Resta or other techs wouldn't be need right? Since you can keep your distance and attack with a gun.

RaCast does seems to be the obvious choice, but RaMar might not be that bad either. Not for his tech, but for his highest ATA in the game. RaMar will be able to abuse special attack better than anyone else, and that just might make a difference.