PSO ep1

2007-11-27 01:59:31 am

A RAmar can also cast shifta... when he reaches around level 13. Ok, not that impressive Wink

The special attacks might make a RAmar worthwhile though. With a thunder sniper a low level ranger owns caves but you won't get that from dragon. Does anyone know what special attack weapon drops are possible in forest or caves 1?

D A P

Edit history:

D A P: 2007-11-27 02:20:13 am

2007-11-27 02:11:32 am

Nobody likes PSO New Game+ I guess :[
http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=161275&forum=1&0

dexter, is it okay that I put a link to your PSO run? I'll delete it right away if you say. EDIT: Oh, and do you happen to have notes handy on the general shortest/quickest map-patterns, for say, someone doing a NG+ run (if someone gets interested at PSOw I could tell them the route, or if I want to bump the topic with a little somthin). *checking quick maps myself*

JoChi

Edit history:

JoChi: 2008-08-08 02:46:22 pm

2007-11-27 02:21:20 am

According to PSO-world, you can get weapon w/ special attack (aka element) starting at cave1. However, I believe the boxes in forest boss's room count as cave1. Otherwise I shouldn't have been able to get a sword in my run. EDIT: That sword even comes with element too, further proof that one can get element in forest boss box.

As for shifta, one can feed the mag to get additional msn. But I think those levels (and time) are better spend on pow/atk or dex/ata.

Of course, even my HuCast mag has some mind level to it, simply because the mag was already hungry, and I got nothing better to feed him with Tongue

JoChi

2007-12-02 01:10:05 pm

Small update on my hucast run:

Still in the middle of ruins testing. I have included an extra segment to get marksman/arm unit, so I can equip autogun at lvl13 rather than lvl16.

The good news is now I am sure I can push for 1hour in ruin.
(rather than 1:10)
The bad news is I forgot to include the ending credit into my estimate...
So the realistic target time will be 2:40, probably 2:38.

Of course, more testings still need to be done to confirm this estimate.

Also, dexter, regarding those map you didn't get, I have gotten 3-1-1, but 3-2-1 is (probably) still faster. This probably means it's possible to get every single map in ruins.

dexter

Edit history:

dexter: 2007-12-02 02:45:45 pm

2007-12-02 02:45:19 pm

Interesting, wouldn't have thought that an autogun makes such a big difference. Against what enemies do you use it?

The five minutes ending credits fortunately don't count in the final time.

Over the time I got all ruins maps (wrote about it some time ago) but 3-1-1 was much slower for me than 3-2-1. The second best map was 3-3-2 but 3-2-1 was clearly faster.

JoChi

Edit history:

JoChi: 2008-08-08 02:48:14 pm

2007-12-02 03:16:22 pm

Quote:

Interesting, wouldn't have thought that an autogun makes such a big difference. Against what enemies do you use it?

Autogun is used for delsaber and bulclaw, and also in boss battle.

While there is a saber-weapon strategy for delsaber, it's easier and waste less trap to deal some damage to him with autogun first before he gets close. EDIT: still faster to use saber when i can only use handgun though.

For bulclaw, it's just a nuisance to have him release his claw around me.

For boss(DF), it's to shoot durvants, and to shoot the head during form 1 when the head is up.

I should probably emphasize that the arm unit is not just so I can equip a better gun. It's also to just plain increase my ATA, so I won't miss as much.

EDIT:
Also, i haven't done any shopping/restocking after I beat vol opt. So I was just using my shopping segment to include an item that would help me. Originally I was just going to shop every time i start my segment for ruins.

Quote:

The five minutes ending credits fortunately don't count in the final time.

really? damn, i was really just looking for an excuse to not be pushed so hard Tongue

Getting ruins done in under 1 hour really seems difficult with hunter.

Quote:

Over the time I got all ruins maps (wrote about it some time ago) but 3-1-1 was much slower for me than 3-2-1. The second best map was 3-3-2 but 3-2-1 was clearly faster.

Oh... I only saw one of your post saying you got 1-3-1

[quote]Interesting, wouldn't have thought that an autogun makes such a big difference. Against what enemies do you use it?[/quote]
Autogun is used for delsaber and bulclaw, and also in boss battle.

While there is a saber-weapon strategy for delsaber, it's easier and waste less trap to deal some damage to him with [b]autogun[/b] first before he gets close.  EDIT: still faster to use saber when i can only use handgun though.

For bulclaw, it's just a nuisance to have him release his claw around me.

For boss(DF), it's to shoot durvants, and to shoot the head during form 1 when the head is up.

I should probably emphasize that the arm unit is not just so I can equip a better gun.  It's also to just plain increase my ATA, so I won't miss as much.

EDIT:
Also, i haven't done any shopping/restocking after I beat vol opt.  So I was just using my shopping segment to include an item that would help me.  Originally I was just going to shop every time i start my segment for ruins.

[quote]The five minutes ending credits fortunately don't count in the final time.[/quote]
really? damn, i was really just looking for an excuse to not be pushed so hard :P  Getting ruins done in under 1 hour really seems difficult with hunter.

[quote]Over the time I got all ruins maps (wrote about it some time ago) but 3-1-1 was much slower for me than 3-2-1. The second best map was 3-3-2 but 3-2-1 was clearly faster.[/quote]
Oh... I only saw one of your post saying you got 1-3-1

D A P

2007-12-09 08:57:05 pm

rough draft of the game+ run I'm always talking about:

with a strong Force, I could see the time going sub 4:30.

dexter

2007-12-10 07:49:17 am

How do you arrive at 4:55? End of teleport - death animation should be 4:40 for your video. I did a quick test with a level 61 FOnewearl (more than enough to own forest and one-round dragon) and I think about 15-20 seconds could be cut off from your time.

Why do you enter the teleporter in the second last forest 2 room? If it is just to make the monsters appear I think it would be faster to use the time to simply run to the door and shoot them from there (didn't time it though).

D A P

Edit history:

D A P: 2007-12-11 04:00:24 am

2007-12-11 03:23:02 am

Quote:

How do you arrive at 4:55? End of teleport - death animation should be 4:40 for your video. I did a quick test with a level 61 FOnewearl (more than enough to own forest and one-round dragon) and I think about 15-20 seconds could be cut off from your time.

Why do you enter the teleporter in the second last forest 2 room? If it is just to make the monsters appear I think it would be faster to use the time to simply run to the door and shoot them from there (didn't time it though).

Thanks for watching dexter!
I was timing from 'first movement of character' to 'final hit on boss' (0:28 to 5:23, 28-5:23=4:55).
Oh man really, a Lv.61 can one-hit-kill all normal enemies? If you'd be willing to run Forest, or all areas I'd be so happy! I'd help you any way I could too, if you want my Gamecube memory card just say the word and I'll send it right to you, really!! Or what I think would be even more fun would be competing with each other for the best game+ time.

But if not, I am still grateful for the tip on standing next to the door instead of entering the tele (it feels like going through it makes them spawn faster, but it must be the illusion of taking the time to run to it instead of waiting for them).
I'll do some runs tonight.

I thought the .beat time (ie: system clock) might have something to do with the 'area's pattern selection' but after a little testing it seems that it is as random as anything else in the game.

[quote]How do you arrive at 4:55? End of teleport - death animation should be 4:40 for your video. I did a quick test with a level 61 FOnewearl (more than enough to own forest and one-round dragon) and I think about 15-20 seconds could be cut off from your time.

Why do you enter the teleporter in the second last forest 2 room? If it is just to make the monsters appear I think it would be faster to use the time to simply run to the door and shoot them from there (didn't time it though).[/quote]
Thanks for watching dexter!
I was timing from 'first movement of character' to 'final hit on boss' (0:28 to 5:23, 28-5:23=4:55).
Oh man really, a Lv.61 can one-hit-kill all normal enemies?  If you'd be willing to run Forest, or all areas I'd be so happy!  I'd help you any way I could too, if you want my Gamecube memory card just say the word and I'll send it right to you, really!!  Or what I think would be even more fun would be competing with each other for the best game+ time.

But if not, I am still grateful for the tip on standing next to the door instead of entering the tele (it feels like going through it makes them spawn faster, but it must be the illusion of taking the time to run to it instead of waiting for them).        
 I'll do some runs tonight.

I thought the .beat time (ie: system clock) might have something to do with the 'area's pattern selection' but after a little testing it seems that it is as random as anything else in the game.

JoChi

Edit history:

JoChi: 2007-12-11 04:53:08 am

2007-12-11 04:04:45 am

Quote:

But if not, I am still grateful for the tip on standing next to the door instead of entering the tele (it feels like going through it makes them spawn faster, but it must be the illusion of taking the time to run to it instead of waiting for them).
I'll do some runs tonight.

Going thru that teleport spawn new enemies that you don't need to kill. But in reality it doesn't matter. It takes a long time for the nest to die completely, and, as seen in your video, one can dispatch the optional enemy wave before the required enemy wave appears.

But yeah, when you are waiting for the enemy to spawn, you should move towards the exit asap. This applies for every room.

And I don't think dexter wrote anything about been able to ohko every enemy. Although I suspect everything except boss should die fairly quickly.

Also, is it really faster to use gifoie on monest? I would think using spread needle or rafoie would be just as fast, if not faster.

Since you don't need a very high ATA to be able to hit normal enemies, you might want to use a pure power mag instead. If you already are, my bad. I can't tell with all the new mag design in GC.

[quote]But if not, I am still grateful for the tip on standing next to the door instead of entering the tele (it feels like going through it makes them spawn faster, but it must be the illusion of taking the time to run to it instead of waiting for them).        
 I'll do some runs tonight.[/quote]

Going thru that teleport spawn new enemies that you don't need to kill.  But in reality it doesn't matter.  It takes a long time for the nest to die completely, and, as seen in your video, one can dispatch the optional enemy wave before the required enemy wave appears.

But yeah, when you are waiting for the enemy to spawn, you should move towards the exit asap.  This applies for every room.

And I don't think dexter wrote anything about been able to ohko every enemy.  Although I suspect everything except boss should die fairly quickly.

Also, is it really faster to use gifoie on monest?  I would think using spread needle or rafoie would be just as fast, if not faster.

Since you don't need a very high ATA to be able to hit normal enemies, you might want to use a pure power mag instead.  If you already are, my bad.  I can't tell with all the new mag design in GC.

JoChi

2007-12-11 04:31:32 am

I hope you guys don't mind the double post.

While looking at your video, I came across a couple of other video that would fall under the new game+ catagory. It doesn't conform to SDA format, nor would i consider it an actual attempt at finishing the game AFAP. But you might want to take a look anyway.

I'll just post one link for now, since I haven't watch much of the video myself. But basically it's a lvl1 character (RaMarl) w/ weapon transfered from another character. It's also possible he hacked to get those weapon, but since he didn't go for full stat, I assume that's not the case.

[PSO]normal EP1 RAmarl speedrun 4x speed 1/2:

Btw, he has video for Normal ep1, normal ep2, hard ep1, hard ep2. Just go to his profile and you should be able to find them all.

dexter

Edit history:

dexter: 2007-12-11 06:28:14 am

2007-12-11 06:16:43 am

Quote:

I was timing from 'first movement of character' to 'final hit on boss' (0:28 to 5:23, 28-5:23=4:55).
Oh man really, a Lv.61 can one-hit-kill all normal enemies?

I see. More SDA like.
I can easily OHKO all normal forest enemies (except dragon of couse). The main reason is that I have (compared to my level) very strong spells from disk drops from very hard and ultimate forest/caves. I am doing all quests on ultimate right now and just from "Soul of a blacksmith" I got to level 64 Smiley

The rafoie 17 drop from sil dragon was also welcome.

Quote:

If you'd be willing to run Forest, or all areas I'd be so happy!

Actually I just did a ng+ forest run. I probably won't do the other areas anytime soon though since this would be a lot more work.

It seems that your initial estimate was better than mine. I found a few small time savers and here is forest in 4:21 (34 seconds faster). Higher levels of zonde and probably rafoie would shave off another few seconds.

http://www.wongr.net/dexter/pso/pso1-ng+-forest-MQ.mp4

1:05
I have to use foie here since zonde hits anything but the boomer. It is possible to save a few frames against the mothvist if you get the rappy to stand up at the right time so you can begin to cast rafoie before it gets vulnerable.

2:20
I cant't reach the goboomer with rafoie from here so I have to use zonde.

2:45
The savage wolf doesn't cooperate and stays out of range of the rafoie blast. For the last group I have to stay far enough from the door so I can reach the last savage wolf with zonde (higher level would of course help).

2:55
An al rappy. Rare monsters always appear when you don't need them...
By running to the force field the Mothvist in the next room gets triggered and I don't have to wait for it to land.

3:30
Again I can't wait directly at the door since I have to keep the rappy in range.

4:00
The time to stun dragon is pretty much all that decides how long the fight takes. Unfortunately I can't yet stun him with one zonde hit. I didn't test it with a storm wand before so that's why I equipped it earlier. I still don't lose much time though since barta misses if I cast it immediately after the cutscene.

Sorry for the ~4 garbled frames. Something else was running while I was recording.

Quote:

While looking at your video, I came across a couple of other video that would fall under the new game+ catagory. It doesn't conform to SDA format, nor would i consider it an actual attempt at finishing the game AFAP. But you might want to take a look anyway.

It is fun to see some of the more exotic weapons I don't know. A level 1 FOnewearl with a maxed out mag, damage boosting weapons, and good spells would be faster though Wink

[quote]
I was timing from 'first movement of character' to 'final hit on boss' (0:28 to 5:23, 28-5:23=4:55).
Oh man really, a Lv.61 can one-hit-kill all normal enemies?[/quote]

I see. More SDA like.
I can easily OHKO all normal forest enemies (except dragon of couse). The main reason is that I have (compared to my level) very strong spells from disk drops from very hard and ultimate forest/caves. I am doing all quests on ultimate right now and just from "Soul of a blacksmith" I got to level 64 :)
The rafoie 17 drop from sil dragon was also welcome.

[quote]
If you'd be willing to run Forest, or all areas I'd be so happy![/quote]

Actually I just did a ng+ forest run. I probably won't do the other areas anytime soon though since this would be a lot more work.

It seems that your initial estimate was better than mine. I found a few small time savers and here is forest in 4:21 (34 seconds faster). Higher levels of zonde and probably rafoie would shave off another few seconds.

http://www.wongr.net/dexter/pso/pso1-ng+-forest-MQ.mp4

1:05
I have to use foie here since zonde hits anything but the boomer. It is possible to save a few frames against the mothvist if you get the rappy to stand up at the right time so you can begin to cast rafoie before it gets vulnerable.

2:20
I cant't reach the goboomer with rafoie from here so I have to use zonde.

2:45
The savage wolf doesn't cooperate and stays out of range of the rafoie blast. For the last group I have to stay far enough from the door so I can reach the last savage wolf with zonde (higher level would of course help).

2:55
An al rappy. Rare monsters always appear when you don't need them...
By running to the force field the Mothvist in the next room gets triggered and I don't have to wait for it to land.

3:30
Again I can't wait directly at the door since I have to keep the rappy in range.

4:00
The time to stun dragon is pretty much all that decides how long the fight takes. Unfortunately I can't yet stun him with one zonde hit. I didn't test it with a storm wand before so that's why I equipped it earlier. I still don't lose much time though since barta misses if I cast it immediately after the cutscene.

Sorry for the ~4 garbled frames. Something else was running while I was recording.

[quote]While looking at your video, I came across a couple of other video that would fall under the new game+ catagory.  It doesn't conform to SDA format, nor would i consider it an actual attempt at finishing the game AFAP.  But you might want to take a look anyway.[/quote]

It is fun to see some of the more exotic weapons I don't know. A level 1 FOnewearl with a maxed out mag, damage boosting weapons, and good spells would be faster though ;)

D A P

Edit history:

D A P: 2007-12-11 09:35:19 pm

2007-12-11 06:49:53 pm

oh wow.. you destroyed my time. Thanks so much for the video!! That's what I've been wanting to see since I started posting here, but to be honest (and now agree with what everyones been saying about a NG+ run), it wasn't as exciting to watch the game+ on Normal compared to your regular run. I don't care much (and never really did) now to see the other areas ran.

Your force (Sarah, heh, your GF?) is much stronger then I expected, very strong for that level, nice job. Looks like you won't be needing any help from me. And I'm not sure I could improve on your time with my RAmar, so thanks again for the video.
As for improvements: GiFoie is best to cast when waiting for enemies to spawn and on a Monest so you can hit with RAfoie at the same time Gifoie lands- [time mark in your video where I think Gifoie would work well @ 1:15, 1:40, 2:46 maybe, 3:12, 3:33]

Any PSO run requests?
I'm considering doing 'quest runs' probably on Ultimate. routing a quest run would be easier and more time efficient since they are NOT random maps.

oh wow..  you destroyed my time.  Thanks so much for the video!!   That's what I've been wanting to see since I started posting here, but to be honest (and now agree with what everyones been saying about a NG+ run), it wasn't as exciting to watch the game+ on Normal compared to your regular run.  I don't care much (and never really did) now to see the other areas ran.

Your force (Sarah, heh, your GF?) is much stronger then I expected, very strong for that level, nice job.  Looks like you won't be needing any help from me.  And I'm not sure I could improve on your time with my RAmar, so thanks again for the video.
As for improvements: GiFoie is best to cast when waiting for enemies to spawn and on a Monest so you can hit with RAfoie at the same time Gifoie lands- [time mark in your video where I think Gifoie would work well @ 1:15, 1:40, 2:46 maybe, 3:12, 3:33]

Any PSO run requests?  
I'm considering doing 'quest runs' probably on Ultimate.  routing a quest run would be easier and more time efficient since they are NOT random maps.

JoChi

Edit history:

JoChi: 2007-12-15 05:27:15 pm

2007-12-15 10:28:03 am

Ok, a little update before I head home for the holiday.

The good news is with the time I am getting right now, it seems fairly possible to finish Ruins in 55 minutes. This means I can get below 2:30 in total time (for aesthetic purpose Tongue

)

The bad news is I won't have access to a dvd recorder for 3 weeks. Since I am soo used to playing with the lag from the dvd recorder, I don't want to do test run w/out the lag. So there won't be a whole lot of progress this holiday. Sad

dexter

2007-12-27 09:21:36 pm

Quote:

As for improvements: GiFoie is best to cast when waiting for enemies to spawn and on a Monest so you can hit with RAfoie at the same time Gifoie lands- [time mark in your video where I think Gifoie would work well @ 1:15, 1:40, 2:46 maybe, 3:12, 3:33]

With good timing this could shave off quite a few seconds. Might also help around 3:45. Maybe it is even possible to kill the goboomas and the savage wolf with a single gifoie.

I guess now gibarta is the single most useless spell in the game Wink

D A P

Edit history:

D A P: 2007-12-31 07:44:53 am

2007-12-28 01:59:33 am

Quote:

With good timing this could shave off quite a few seconds.

Someone told me about this, I haven't seen or tested it, but it makes sense:
If you can do an attack for 1300hp or more on the Dragon it would save about 20-25seconds (depending on the range of the attack; how far you have to run to hit him).

Because you can only kill him while he's standing (or flying I think) right? And if your first attack is less than his total amount of health (which will be most characters below Lv.170+/-) then he will fall, then you can do as much damage as you want when he lies there but he won't die.
I'm guessing you could kill him with a 1hp attack (probably not 0hp) after you've dealt enough -he has 1300hp on Offline Normal- damage while he is laying down and stands back up.

I'll see if I can do that much damage on Normal, I don't think I can but I'm not sure how much some of the swords I have will raise my ATP.
EDIT: Not close, 640 damage is the best Heavy Attack average I could get.
EDIT2: This run could go sub 4mins if the Dragon theory is true, using a Lv.200 force preferably :]

[quote]

With good timing this could shave off quite a few seconds.[/quote]
Someone told me about this, I haven't seen or tested it, but it makes sense:
If you can do an attack for 1300hp or more on the Dragon it would save about 20-25seconds (depending on the range of the attack; how far you have to run to hit him).

Because you can only kill him while he's standing (or flying I think) right?  And if your first attack is less than his total amount of health (which will be most characters below Lv.170+/-) then he will fall, then you can do as much damage as you want when he lies there but he won't die.  
I'm guessing you could kill him with a 1hp attack (probably not 0hp) after you've dealt enough -he has 1300hp on Offline Normal- damage while he is laying down and stands back up.

I'll see if I can do that much damage on Normal, I don't think I can but I'm not sure how much some of the swords I have will raise my ATP.
EDIT: Not close, 640 damage is the best Heavy Attack average I could get.
EDIT2: This run could go sub 4mins if the Dragon theory is true, using a Lv.200 force preferably :]

D A P

2008-01-01 05:19:06 am

The 'dupe glitch' could be very useful :
http://www.freewebs.com/zetaatpso/psoepiiicheats.htm

The Plus version on GC (what I play) has this glitch fixed.

dexter

Edit history:

dexter: 2008-01-04 05:39:32 am

2008-01-04 04:38:23 am

I still haven't tried to reproduce this glitch (sorry, might do it today) but I don't have the plus version so it should work. With lots of money you could save quite a few shop visits in a force run (especially if you don't need Digger/HPs). I am not sure whether difluids are available at level 4 but trifluids are available by the time I reach mines.

With lots of money and no need for Digger/HPs there would be
- faster forest (no fluid hunting, fastest forest 2 map)
- maybe one less shop visit in caves (if difluids are avialable)
- three less shop visits in mines (still need one for gizonde)
- ~four less shop visits in ruins

At about 45 seconds per visit and no need to pick up loot this really rocks even if the trick takes some time to pull off (not sure from the youtube video how long it takes if you are fast).

If items can be duplicated (not only money; someone wrote that items don't work for him) this would be an alternative to a Dragon/HP run.

Now I am even more tempted to improve my run but don't expect anything soon.

EDIT: neither the guide nor the audio commentary were accurate but I can now duplicate items Smiley

I still haven't tried to reproduce this glitch (sorry, might do it today) but I don't have the plus version so it should work. With lots of money you could save quite a few shop visits in a force run (especially if you don't need Digger/HPs). I am not sure whether difluids are available at level 4 but trifluids are available by the time I reach mines.

With lots of money and no need for Digger/HPs there would be
- faster forest (no fluid hunting, fastest forest 2 map)
- maybe one less shop visit in caves (if difluids are avialable)
- three less shop visits in mines (still need one for gizonde)
- ~four less shop visits in ruins

At about 45 seconds per visit and no need to pick up loot this really rocks even if the trick takes some time to pull off (not sure from the youtube video how long it takes if you are fast).

If items can be duplicated (not only money; someone wrote that items don't work for him) this would be an alternative to a Dragon/HP run.

Now I am even more tempted to improve my run but don't expect anything soon.

EDIT: neither the guide nor the audio commentary were accurate but I can now duplicate items :)

Acryte

2008-01-07 10:56:35 pm

Zelda Scientist®

you can also use this glitch to have it use materials on you even past the max amount... aka you can get your fonewearl to become a beast without doing ANYTHING. But it does require save and quit a bunch of times.

dexter

2008-01-09 07:04:22 am

All this opens a lot of new possibilities. MST raising just for the damage boost probably wouldn't be worth it though (I would have to two round de rol le for a significant gain and afaik mind materials are not available in caves anyway) unless it allows me to kill frequent monsters in one less hit. However, with higher MST I could make good use of razonde or gizonde 2 in mines and maybe a higher level rafoie in ruins.

Unfortunately the disk drop charts on pso-world don't match so I am not always sure what to expect.
http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=2279
http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=790

Furthermore, the disk level ranges (eg. foie/barta/zonde 4-6 in ruins 1) don't match my experience (I always got level 5). I am not completely sure about that though. This still begs the question whether there are other factors like section id. If that is the case it might be worth it to not use redria (for a four slot frame) and replace the fourth Digger/HP with HP materials.

All this is further complicated by the way the dupe glitch works. Basically there are two stages: First, the setup of the basic glitch which allows you to walk freely with the bank menu (slow). After this you can duplicate items (drop + deposit) fairly quickly. You can retrieve duplicated items from the bank to duplicate them again but you cannot use or pickup items without having to do the slow setup again.

This has two effects:
- mass duplicating items you have only once takes a little longer since you have to retrieve the item from the bank between each duplication
- duplicating money takes longer than it seems since you can't actually double your money in each step (without doing the setup). The fastest way to lots of money would be to do the second step several times before picking up the dropped money and doing the setup again. If you are low on money it would help to dupe an expensive item a few times first. This probably means that it is not worth it to pull off the glitch before doing forest to get enough monofluids.

All this opens a lot of new possibilities. MST raising just for the damage boost probably wouldn't be worth it though (I would have to two round de rol le for a significant gain and afaik mind materials are not available in caves anyway) unless it allows me to kill frequent monsters in one less hit. However, with higher MST I could make good use of razonde or gizonde 2 in mines and maybe a higher level rafoie in ruins.

Unfortunately the disk drop charts on pso-world don't match so I am not always sure what to expect.
http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=2279 
http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=790

Furthermore, the disk level ranges (eg. foie/barta/zonde 4-6 in ruins 1) don't match my experience (I always got level 5). I am not completely sure about that though. This still begs the question whether there are other factors like section id. If that is the case it might be worth it to not use redria (for a four slot frame) and replace the fourth Digger/HP with HP materials.

All this is further complicated by the way the dupe glitch works. Basically there are two stages: First, the setup of the basic glitch which allows you to walk freely with the bank menu (slow). After this you can duplicate items (drop + deposit) fairly quickly. You can retrieve duplicated items from the bank to duplicate them again but you cannot use or pickup items without having to do the slow setup again.

This has two effects:
- mass duplicating items you have only once takes a little longer since you have to retrieve the item from the bank between each duplication
- duplicating money takes longer than it seems since you can't actually double your money in each step (without doing the setup). The fastest way to lots of money would be to do the second step several times before picking up the dropped money and doing the setup again. If you are low on money it would help to dupe an expensive item a few times first. This probably means that it is not worth it to pull off the glitch before doing forest to get enough monofluids.

JoChi

2008-01-09 02:34:27 pm

i guess i forgot to mention,
back in ver.2, only pinkal can get level 30 techs in ultimate.
in general, pinkal get higher level techs than the rest of the id. i was surprise to see nothing in pso-world mentioning this.

i don't know if this still applies for gc ver. though.

dexter

Edit history:

dexter: 2008-01-10 01:35:29 pm

2008-01-10 01:34:09 pm

I am going to do some normal ruins running with my "real" force (pinkal) to see what disk drops I get. Unfortunately there is no way to downgrade spells so I can't easily check how many hits I can save with foie/barta/zonde 6 and rafoie 2/3.

EDIT: well, would have to downgrade MST too...

dexter

2008-01-31 12:43:30 pm

Just wanted to let you know that I (finally) started yesterday testing / research for a pinkal / purplenum FoNewearl run with duplication glitch. (Puplenum for amplifier of barta / blue barrier if pinkal doesn't get the disks I like)

I spent most time on figuring out the best way to duplicate money. The duplication glitch requires a somewhat slow setup after which money and items can be duplicated many times. The catch is that duplicates get dropped to the ground and can not be picked up without "cancelling" the glitch.

The fastest / easiest cycle I came up with is
A A down A down A A down A A down A B <repeat for fun and profit> (typing from memory)
I am going to prepare a video.

I will need to do the setup at least three times (two times for money and once for Digger/HP and HP material duplication before ruins). The question is when to do the setup. This depends on many factors:

- how much time is saved in forest by not having to look for fluids (and taking full benefit of the fastest forest 2 map)?
- how much time is saved by having ~700 mesetas instead of 300 for the first money duplication round? (counting on a star atomizer from dragon; manipulation for a digrinder would probably be too painful)
- are difluids available before caves?
- are trifluids available before mines?
- are two money duplication rounds before ruins enough?
- is manipulating for gizonde or razonde in mines worth it? Since I would have to do the setup anyway (to duplicate mind materials) I should duplicate money as well

Other interesting questions include:

- does pinkal get barta >1 in caves 1?
- is it worth it to manipulate a zonde disk drop in mines 1?
- what disks do I get in ruins?
- can I duplicate full item stacks (something like 10 trifluids; not tested yet)

I didn't have much time to check for disk drops yesterday but I already got zonde 6 (good) barta 4 (bad) and gibarta 2 (useless) in ruins 1 with my pinkal force. I hope that barta >4 does also get dropped or it might be the end of a pinkal run. In my Redria run I always got foie/barta/zonde 5 in ruins 1.

If I get the disks I like I am going to do a test run to test the other stuff. Time won't matter but I will make sure to get best maps because of exp.

I won't have too much time to work on this so don't expect regular updates.

BTW: JoChi, any news regarding your run?

Just wanted to let you know that I (finally) started yesterday testing / research for a pinkal / purplenum FoNewearl run with duplication glitch. (Puplenum for amplifier of barta / blue barrier if pinkal doesn't get the disks I like)

I spent most time on figuring out the best way to duplicate money. The duplication glitch requires a somewhat slow setup after which money and items can be duplicated many times. The catch is that duplicates get dropped to the ground and can not be picked up without "cancelling" the glitch.

The fastest / easiest cycle I came up with is 
A A down A down A A down A A down A B <repeat for fun and profit>  (typing from memory) 
I am going to prepare a video.

I will need to do the setup at least three times (two times for money and once for Digger/HP and HP material duplication before ruins). The question is when to do the setup. This depends on many factors:

- how much time is saved in forest by not having to look for fluids (and taking full benefit of the fastest forest 2 map)?
- how much time is saved by having ~700 mesetas instead of 300 for the first money duplication round? (counting on a star atomizer from dragon; manipulation for a digrinder would probably be too painful)
- are difluids available before caves?
- are trifluids available before mines?
- are two money duplication rounds before ruins enough?
- is manipulating for gizonde or razonde in mines worth it? Since I would have to do the setup anyway (to duplicate mind materials) I should duplicate money as well