PSO ep1

Edit history:

JoChi: 2007-07-07 12:32:53 pm

2007-07-06 11:27:53 pm

I can almost say with certainty that megid does not work on bosses.
I know for a fact that it doesn't work on boss in DC ver.
All boss stat lack resistance against dark(megid) also kind of confirms this.

dexter

2007-07-07 04:44:09 am

I did some fights against Dark Falz at level 16. Ruins are no problem. The room trick works nicely on chaos bringers (they teleport away like sinow beats or delsabers) especially when combined with the blind spot. As suspected Dark Falz is a problem though.

With three Digger/HPs I have 122 HP. This is enough to survive rabarta and rafoie. With a barrier (not a soul barrier which has one point less fire/ice resistance) I can even survive it with 1 HP after a darvant hit. The problem is heaven punishment. The first form can often be killed before he uses it but I don't see how to beat the second form if I get killed in one hit. Does anyone have a *sure* way to dodge heaven punishment? It seems to be rather random and I am not sure whether it is simply luck. I sticked to the edge of the map and tried to keep as much distance as possible while still being able to hit him. When he started to do heaven punishment I ran away (sometimes along the edge, sometimes in half circles). When I survived sometimes the beams were in front of me, sometimes behind me, and sometimes around me. When I was slowed down because of the annoying stomp attack it didn't seem to change much.

If I had a four slot armor he were toast already but I didn't see one during about 20 shop visits while running through the mines and fighting Dark Falz. A Dragon/HP would immediately solve all problems but the chances to get one during a run are almost zero. Some section IDs get one with high probability from a nar lily in the caves but the chances to meet one are very low.

If four slot armors appear at level 16 there would be a small chance to get one during a run through the ruins. However, the segment is long and it would be very annoying if you had to do lots of one hour tries just to get one. There are also AddSlot items but again the chance to get one is very low.

If I level up to 17 (which would be possible without wasting much time; after a few DF fights I leveled up after killing a darvant) I would still need two HP materials to survive heaven punishment. The chance to get this is probably much higher than for HP/Dragon or AddSlot but it would still be painful to redo two segments again and again until you get at least one HP material each. Does anyone know whether HP materials already appear in forest?.

Getting another level would waste a lot of time since I would have to pile up 2100xp.

Any ideas?

I did some fights against Dark Falz at level 16. Ruins are no problem. The room trick works nicely on chaos bringers (they teleport away like sinow beats or delsabers) especially when combined with the blind spot. As suspected Dark Falz is a problem though.

With three Digger/HPs I have 122 HP. This is enough to survive rabarta and rafoie. With a barrier (not a soul barrier which has one point less fire/ice resistance) I can even survive it with 1 HP after a darvant hit. The problem is heaven punishment. The first form can often be killed before he uses it but I don't see how to beat the second form if I get killed in one hit. Does anyone have a *sure* way to dodge heaven punishment? It seems to be rather random and I am not sure whether it is simply luck. I sticked to the edge of the map and tried to keep as much distance as possible while still being able to hit him. When he started to do heaven punishment I ran away (sometimes along the edge, sometimes in half circles). When I survived sometimes the beams were in front of me, sometimes behind me, and sometimes around me. When I was slowed down because of the annoying stomp attack it didn't seem to change much.

If I had a four slot armor he were toast already but I didn't see one during about 20 shop visits while running through the mines and fighting Dark Falz. A Dragon/HP would immediately solve all problems but the chances to get one during a run are almost zero. Some section IDs get one with high probability from a nar lily in the caves but the chances to meet one are very low.

If four slot armors appear at level 16 there would be a small chance to get one during a run through the ruins. However, the segment is long and it would be very annoying if you had to do lots of one hour tries just to get one. There are also AddSlot items but again the chance to get one is very low.

If I level up to 17 (which would be possible without wasting much time; after a few DF fights I leveled up after killing a darvant) I would still need two HP materials to survive heaven punishment. The chance to get this is probably much higher than for HP/Dragon or AddSlot but it would still be painful to redo two segments again and again until you get at least one HP material each. Does anyone know whether HP materials already appear in forest?.

Getting another level would waste a lot of time since I would have to pile up 2100xp.

Any ideas?

nate

2007-07-07 07:13:07 am

iirc i was able to dodge it every time in the final form by moving back away from him after a certain number of hits. unfortunately i can't remember how many it was. iirc it's true though that he uses it a fixed amount of time after he stops moving so you should be able to count to a number and start running. earlier in this topic there's also a more detailed description of where to go, but iirc i just plain ran away and it worked. as for the second form (on the ground), though ... no idea about it. without being able to survive it you're probably condemned to the random as you said. however it may actually be worth to go in totally underleveled and just wait for a no-h.punishment second form, because all the alternatives sound pretty annoying. your call ... unfortunately i can't think of anything else atm.

D A P

Edit history:

D A P: 2007-07-09 04:45:09 am

2007-07-09 04:44:30 am

In the current PSO run on DC, the runner doesn't activate any of the Tower buttons, does he?
Do you HAVE to press all three even on DC to go in Runis?

Oh, and everyone knows about www.PSO-world.com right?

dexter

2007-07-09 01:03:50 pm

Quote:

In the current PSO run on DC, the runner doesn't activate any of the Tower buttons, does he?
Do you HAVE to press all three even on DC to go in Runis?

On DC you can doorwalk to the ruins after defeating Vol Opt so it isn't necessary to activate any monoliths.

Quote:

Oh, and everyone knows about www.PSO-world.com right?

Yes, nice site with lots of information. Unfortunately their boss strategies are somewhat basic and while there are drop charts for lots of rare items and rare enemies the "normal" stuff seems to be rather incomplete.

I did some more DF2 Heaven Punishment testing with a character that could survive it but dodging it about five times in a row (with one hour of playing before that) does not seem to be viable. I also tested a faster DF1 strategy but I have yet to test it with a low level character. If you can rabarta darvants with one hit you can get a lot of fast zonde hits when you get behind DF. It seems that the darvants take longer to get there and draw your fire. This would save TP (zonde instead of razonde) and time although DF1 was never a real issue.

If anyone has drop charts for HP Material, General/HP, Dragon/HP, AddSlot, or four slot armors for regular monsters in normal mode I would be very interested. Drop charts for simple stuff like monofluids or telepipes would also be useful.

[quote]In the current PSO run on DC, the runner doesn't activate any of the Tower buttons, does he?
Do you HAVE to press all three even on DC to go in Runis?[/quote]

On DC you can doorwalk to the ruins after defeating Vol Opt so it isn't necessary to activate any monoliths.

[quote]Oh, and everyone knows about www.PSO-world.com right?[/quote]

Yes, nice site with lots of information. Unfortunately their boss strategies are somewhat basic and while there are drop charts for lots of rare items and rare enemies the "normal" stuff seems to be rather incomplete.

I did some more DF2 Heaven Punishment testing with a character that could survive it but dodging it about five times in a row (with one hour of playing before that) does not seem to be viable. I also tested a faster DF1 strategy but I have yet to test it with a low level character. If you can rabarta darvants with one hit you can get a lot of fast zonde hits when you get behind DF. It seems that the darvants take longer to get there and draw your fire. This would save TP (zonde instead of razonde) and time although DF1 was never a real issue.

If anyone has drop charts for HP Material, General/HP, Dragon/HP, AddSlot, or four slot armors for regular monsters in normal mode I would be very interested. Drop charts for simple stuff like monofluids or telepipes would also be useful.

JoChi

2007-07-11 05:16:11 pm

One thing I hate about PSO-world is how hard it is to find information that they have. Sad

This should help you with the armor http://pso-world.com/sections.php?op=listarticles&secid=79
Notice that at normal, only redria drops 4 slot armor.

Here's a link for materials drop rate: http://pso-world.com/sections.php?op=listarticles&secid=53

Finally, here's a link for unit drop: http://pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=813
a general/hp is a level4 unit, while a dragon/hp is level 6. At normal, redria is the only ID capable of finding a level4 unit. So dragon/hp is out of the question. This did not take into account of the special drop for the rare enemy.

P.S.: I found those link by clicking on script for ep1,2, &4. One wouldn't think it's located there, but it is.

dexter

Edit history:

dexter: 2007-07-12 02:07:15 am

2007-07-12 02:04:52 am

Whoa, I completely missed that. Thanks!

This makes things a lot clearer. General/HP is out since it can only be found in Mines 2 and Ruins 2 which means no luck manipulation. I am ignoring rare enemies for now since they are..., well..., rare ;-)
Bluefull, Oran, and Yellowboze are likely to get a Dragon/HP from a Nar Lily but I met only a single rare monster during all my test runs. Not impossible, but I don't want to spend weeks in the caves.

Going for a four slot armor with Redria is not impossible either but a chance of only 0.02% (if I read the numbers correctly) is not exciting. This would have to be done in forest 1, otherwise you might end up with a four slot armor you can't use. I did some testing and it seems that if you concentrate on the first two rooms you get about 5 pickups per minute (a little less than 10s per crate; 80% item drop chance). This means that you can expect a four slot armor roughly every 1000 minutes or 16.7 hours -_-
If you can get an AddSlot in forest 1 / Redria (I read somewhere that this is possible; drop percentage must be very low though) it might be a little less but still no fun.

I will probably try it for some time but if it doesn't work out I will leave it for the next run. (If you are lucky enough to get two HP materials without extra segments it wouldn't even save much time.)

HP material looks like the easiest way. From my experience the chance to get at least one without luck manipulation is not bad, and a drop percentage of 0.18 in mines or ruins looks much better than 0.02. However, if I am interpreting things correctly and the drop percentages apply only if an enemy / crate drops an item at all, it might be better to go for a (manipulated) HP material in mines instead of ruins since there are more (quickly) available crates (see http://pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=2277 for "drop anything" rates).

I am still waiting for my usb memory card (and have to sort out one or two recording issues) but I hope to get started soon.

Whoa, I completely missed that. Thanks!

This makes things a lot clearer. General/HP is out since it can only be found in Mines 2 and Ruins 2 which means no luck manipulation. I am ignoring rare enemies for now since they are..., well..., rare ;-)
Bluefull, Oran, and Yellowboze are likely to get a Dragon/HP from a Nar Lily but I met only a single rare monster during all my test runs. Not impossible, but I don't want to spend weeks in the caves.

Going for a four slot armor with Redria is not impossible either but a chance of only 0.02% (if I read the numbers correctly) is not exciting. This would have to be done in forest 1, otherwise you might end up with a four slot armor you can't use. I did some testing and it seems that if you concentrate on the first two rooms you get about 5 pickups per minute (a little less than 10s per crate; 80% item drop chance). This means that you can expect a four slot armor roughly every 1000 minutes or 16.7 hours -_-
If you can get an AddSlot in forest 1 / Redria (I read somewhere that this is possible; drop percentage must be very low though) it might be a little less but still no fun.

I will probably try it for some time but if it doesn't work out I will leave it for the next run. (If you are lucky enough to get two HP materials without extra segments it wouldn't even save much time.)

HP material looks like the easiest way. From my experience the chance to get at least one without luck manipulation is not bad, and a drop percentage of 0.18 in mines or ruins looks much better than 0.02. However, if I am interpreting things correctly and the drop percentages apply only if an enemy / crate drops an item at all, it might be better to go for a (manipulated) HP material in mines instead of ruins since there are more (quickly) available crates (see http://pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=2277 for "drop anything" rates).

I am still waiting for my usb memory card (and have to sort out one or two recording issues) but I hope to get started soon.

dexter

Edit history:

dexter: 2007-07-22 02:24:34 am

2007-07-22 02:06:30 am

I got the memory card a few days ago and started the run. I did the first segment, hunted for a four slot frame for some hours, got a powered splitter (the recording quality was just too bad) and redid the first segment.

Now the really good news: Today, after less than 20 minutes of armor hunting with the new splitter I got my four slot frame. I was so excited that I forgot to save for a second.

Now Dark Falz will die Cheesy

Edit: Here is the video (if you can decode it; see the tech support forum thread :-/)

http://www.wongr.net/dexter/pso/pso1-02-MQ.mp4

JoChi

2007-07-22 10:59:16 pm

LOL, i love how the first box you break open gave you a 4 slot frame. Grin

Well, now we just need to wait for you to finish the run.
Can't wait.

nate

2007-07-24 05:20:50 am

luck manipulation ftw.

this run is going to rock.

JoChi

2007-07-24 07:02:20 am

So I was rewatching the DC PSO run,
(to help me decide which map is the best or worst and whatnot)
and I noticed Brightstar finished the 1st form of Vol Opt with an attack to the screen.
I thought attacking the screen doesn't help? Or did I misunderstood you? Or maybe that's only true for tech?

I suppose one can use a much more powerful character and attack the screen only during the boss fight to prove the point. Either way, I thought I should bring this up.

nate

2007-07-24 07:35:04 am

i think you have to kill both the screens (certain amount of hp) and the shockers (certain amount of hp). i also think this was changed for ep 1&2 but don't quote me on that.

dexter

Edit history:

dexter: 2007-07-24 01:46:15 pm

2007-07-24 11:09:03 am

From my experience you have to either destroy all pillars or deal a certain amount of damage to vol opt by damaging the screens or the red pillar. when you actually deal damage you hear a different 'hit' sound and see damage hitpoints above the thing that circles behind the screens. This is how I always killed him before my last test run (razonde works wonders and can even damage him if the screen he is hiding at is not red)

However, in my test run I dealt no damage at all to him (not sure whether it is because of my level or because of my spells) so I have to destroy all pillars.

BTW, I got an ok forest segment but did a few stupid mistakes which cost several seconds each and dragon decided to fly after the first round (costs a little more than 15 seconds). On the other hand I found some good loot (monogrinder, star atomizer, 3 trimates, telepipe) which give some nice cash and make up for a few mistakes since I have to get fewer boxes in the caves.

I will give forest a few more tries though before I decide which segment to keep. The only pain is to get an acceptable map 2 and the three monofluids I need (I destroy only caches of five boxes and the stuff in the last room if I need to). In my current forest segment I was down to 2 TP both when I killed a rappy to level up in the second last room and after killing dragon Smiley

The best forest 2 map (rare) is at least 20 seconds faster than the one I got in the segment but with all the random stuff that is good enough.

From my experience you have to either destroy all pillars or deal a certain amount of damage to vol opt by damaging the screens or the red pillar. when you actually deal damage you hear a different 'hit' sound and see damage hitpoints above the thing that circles behind the screens. This is how I always killed him before my last test run (razonde works wonders and can even damage him if the screen he is hiding at is not red)

However, in my test run I dealt no damage at all to him (not sure whether it is because of my level or because of my spells) so I have to destroy all pillars.

BTW, I got an ok forest segment but did a few stupid mistakes which cost several seconds each and dragon decided to fly after the first round (costs a little more than 15 seconds). On the other hand I found some good loot (monogrinder, star atomizer, 3 trimates, telepipe) which give some nice cash and make up for a few mistakes since I have to get fewer boxes in the caves.

I will give forest a few more tries though before I decide which segment to keep. The only pain is to get an acceptable map 2 and the three monofluids I need (I destroy only caches of five boxes and the stuff in the last room if I need to). In my current forest segment I was down to 2 TP both when I killed a rappy to level up  in the second last room and after killing dragon :)

The best forest 2 map (rare) is at least 20 seconds faster than the one I got in the segment but with all the random stuff that is good enough.

nate

Edit history:

nate: 2007-07-24 05:03:04 pm

2007-07-24 05:02:29 pm

yeah, give it a few more tries. might get the best f2 and no fly dragon and good loot all on your next try, who knows. but if not, no big deal.

btw how is that usb memory card reader working out for you?

dexter

2007-07-25 04:22:46 am

Works good so far, had only minor problems. When I opened the package I was surprised to see that it comes with drivers on a floppy. Haven't seen one of those for quite a while Wink

The card does not use the usb mass storage protocol which would have made things easy. I salvaged an old floppy drive from the unused hardware pile in my kitchen but there are only windows drivers (ok, was to be expected).

I didn't find Linux drivers on the net so I used a (very old) windoze installation for the last few days. This sucks however, since I have to reboot between recordings and saves. Fortunately, some reverse engineering with a USB sniffer revealed that the protocol is very simple. I can already read contents from the card under Linux, writing should be no problem either, and I found a specification of the gamecube memory card "filesystem". If there are no surprises I have a working driver before weekend Smiley

nate

2007-07-25 10:28:49 pm

ok cool, be sure to release that code somewhere so more people can use it/hack on it. i'll be glad to host it permanently, archive is a good option too.

D A P

2007-07-26 05:34:13 am

What should I expect the time to be for this new run, sub-3 hours?
I want to know what my goal should be if I attempt a run with, maybe a Ranger.

JoChi

Edit history:

JoChi: 2007-07-26 10:38:11 pm

2007-07-26 10:32:21 pm

Well, I personally think it's possible to get sub 3 hour with HUct, but that has yet to be proven.

As long as you are using a version that will allow you to access ruin immediately after completing mine (read: not ver.2), you should aim for around 3:15. Current run on DC ver.1 is at 3:17 with walk-thru-door glitch.

dexter

2007-07-27 10:02:47 am

Not sure about HUcast or ranger but I try get under three hours with my FOnewearl run. In my test run I didn't time best maps (and didn't time ruins at all) but I think it is possible.

The time with a ranger probably depends very much on how early you can get guns that damage multiple enemies. Otherwise I wouldn't see an advantage compared to hunters.

dexter

Edit history:

dexter: 2007-07-29 05:14:36 pm

2007-07-29 07:08:21 am

I had a busy week and some problems with checksums that are not calculated as documented but it is finally done. No need to boot windows anymore to store or load saves from my usb memory card Smiley

Quote:

ok cool, be sure to release that code somewhere so more people can use it/hack on it. i'll be glad to host it permanently, archive is a good option too.

Thanks for the offer. I can host it myself but it would be cool if you could put a backup somewhere in case my venerable PII-300 server bites the dust Wink

The program is available here:

http://www.wongr.net/dexter/emslink-0.2.1.tar.gz

The code released under the GNU GPL.
I am going to prepare a small webpage in the next days so people can find it but now it is time to go back into the forest.

nate

2007-07-29 04:54:15 pm

now mirrored at http://nate.metroid2002.com/

good luck!

dexter

2007-07-30 05:55:16 am

Quote:

now mirrored at http://nate.metroid2002.com/

Thanks!

I did 103 more forest attempts (two thirds of them immediate resets because of the map) but didn't get anything decent. I got to dragon with enough fluids five times but he killed me every time with his dive attacks. During testing I survived them about two of three times. Oh well...
In one attempt I even got a scape doll but lost it due to a critical hit and dragon did the rest. Would have been too good to be true Wink

At least I found a way to keep him from flying. When he uses his fire attack in the first round he will fly in the second. The key is to almost move past him at the beginning so he won't do this. I also noticed that when you stand in front of him and he wants to use his fire attack he moves too far to actually hit you with the fire but not far enough to stomp you. I played with the idea of using this in the second round to stun him faster but it turned out not to be such a good idea Wink

http://www.wongr.net/dexter/pso/dragon-HQ.mp4

This could speed up third round but I have to test and count how many barta attacks I need to finish him off (and when I can let him start the fire attack).

Since it is pretty annoying to do 20 attempts just to get yourself killed by the 3rd dive (haven't found a sure way to dodge it) I consider now luck manipulating some monofluids. I have a save where I got two monofluids in the first room. This costs me 24 seconds. However, when I have to destroy all crates on my route to get enough monofluids (4 with the fastest forest 2 map; 3 with the other) it costs me about 45 seconds. Add one or two minor mistakes I wouldn't accept anymore and this doesn't sound bad.

[quote]now mirrored at http://nate.metroid2002.com/[/quote]

Thanks!

I did 103 more forest attempts (two thirds of them immediate resets because of the map) but didn't get anything decent. I got to dragon with enough fluids five times but he killed me every time with his dive attacks. During testing I survived them about two of three times. Oh well...
In one attempt I even got a scape doll but lost it due to a critical hit and dragon did the rest. Would have been too good to be true ;)
At least I found a way to keep him from flying. When he uses his fire attack in the first round he will fly in the second. The key is to almost move past him at the beginning so he won't do this. I also noticed that when you stand in front of him and he wants to use his fire attack he moves too far to actually hit you with the fire but not far enough to stomp you. I played with the idea of using this in the second round to stun him faster but it turned out not to be such a good idea ;)

http://www.wongr.net/dexter/pso/dragon-HQ.mp4

This could speed up third round but I have to test and count how many barta attacks I need to finish him off (and when I can let him start the fire attack).

Since it is pretty annoying to do 20 attempts just to get yourself killed by the 3rd dive (haven't found a sure way to dodge it) I consider now luck manipulating some monofluids. I have a save where I got two monofluids in the first room. This costs me 24 seconds. However, when I have to destroy all crates on my route to get enough monofluids (4 with the fastest forest 2 map; 3 with the other) it costs me about 45 seconds. Add one or two minor mistakes I wouldn't accept anymore and this doesn't sound bad.

D A P

2007-07-30 07:43:49 am

Its sounding as though this run will be about 51% dependent on luck.
Well, I guess thats PSO for you.

I had something new happen to me in PSO today, two things actually.
One, at F2's warp to the high platform, I took the warp back down where a Wolf was with Sft&Ddn on, and I could NOT lock-on to him at all! Even when I shot at him, it went right through him. I was able to lock-on to him by taking the warp up then down again. First time I've seen that.
Also, at the Dragon it was the first time I've been hit by him when he flys out of the ground after moving under it.

I'm currently leveling up a Force char (the strongest one, FOmar?), I couldn't beat Dark Flaz at Lv.18 even with a Hero Ability on, his beam attack killed me every time (when I didn't dodge it).

hmm, there must be a way to heal at the percise moment to cancel an attack, or some orther glitch.

JoChi

Edit history:

JoChi: 2007-07-30 09:52:35 am

2007-07-30 09:35:00 am

dexter:

For the dragon flying, my understanding is if you don't get in front of it, it won't fly. Obviously, there are specific location that triggers the flying, but the above statement is true in general.

Of course, no matter what you do, the dragon will dive at least once. I like to use the map in the menu for this part. Slightly zoom out so I can see the whole dome, and run towards where the dragon is via the edge. I dodge him every time using this method

Also, I saw the video. I think you should take advantage of the fact that barta hit multiple target, and hit him from the side. Hopefully that will register hit on both his leg, his wings, and his body. (probably won't happen though:-[ )

Quote:

hmm, there must be a way to heal at the percise moment to cancel an attack, or some orther glitch.

Unfortunately, no. You simply have to have enough HP to survive heaven punishment, otherwise you have to physically dodge every single one of them.
That's why dexter's run is so luck dependent, he needed to find a 4-slot frame and hp units.

You can also use your PB to dodge the attack (you are invincible while you are summoning it). But that can only be used so often...

Also, the force with the highest hp is FOmarl

dexter:

For the dragon flying, my understanding is if you don't get in front of it, it won't fly.  Obviously, there are specific location that triggers the flying, but the above statement is true in general.

Of course, no matter what you do, the dragon will dive at least once.  I like to use the map in the menu for this part.  Slightly zoom out so I can see the whole dome, and run towards where the dragon is via the edge.  I dodge him every time using this method

Also, I saw the video.  I think you should take advantage of the fact that barta hit multiple target, and hit him from the side.  Hopefully that will register hit on both his leg, his wings, and his body.  (probably won't happen though:-[ )

[quote]hmm, there must be a way to heal at the percise moment to cancel an attack, or some orther glitch.[/quote]
Unfortunately, no.  You simply have to have enough HP to survive heaven punishment, otherwise you have to physically dodge every single one of them.
That's why dexter's run is so luck dependent, he needed to find a 4-slot frame and hp units.

You can also use your PB to dodge the attack (you are invincible while you are summoning it).  But that can only be used so often...

Also, the force with the highest hp is FOmarl

dexter

2007-07-30 11:31:34 am

Quote:

dexter:

For the dragon flying, my understanding is if you don't get in front of it, it won't fly. Obviously, there are specific location that triggers the flying, but the above statement is true in general.

Of course, no matter what you do, the dragon will dive at least once. I like to use the map in the menu for this part. Slightly zoom out so I can see the whole dome, and run towards where the dragon is via the edge. I dodge him every time using this method

You can zoom the minimap?! That makes it much easier. (I have a used copy of PSO1 which came without manual)

Quote:

Also, I saw the video. I think you should take advantage of the fact that barta hit multiple target, and hit him from the side. Hopefully that will register hit on both his leg, his wings, and his body. (probably won't happen though:-[ )

I tried this some time ago but it didn't seem to work. I will do a little more testing though.