PSO ep1

Edit history:

JoChi: 2007-09-03 04:27:44 am

2007-09-01 11:35:49 am

Quote:

Don't you get double hit or don't you get hit at all? If you don't get hit, how far do you run away? I just let him hit me once since I thought it wouldn't save time to run away far enough. Have to test it.

I rewatch my run, and I didn't get hit at all by rabarta. Most of the time I run almost pass his right arm. Buy it seems like I only need to run pass the ball structure. At that time I played it safe as I didn't want to restart just because I want to save 10 sec... But if you can test this properly, that be great.

Quote:

In mines 2 2-1 (which I got in my run) was a lot faster for me than 1-1 but there might be some class differences.

I was surprise by my testing result as well, since mines2 2-1 has the fewest enemies and rooms among all the maps. It does have the highest number of garantz though(5 instead of 3). So that might be what's slowing me down.

Quote:

There are also some tactics that might make a difference. For instance in 1-1 you don't have to kill the dubchics in the room with the single garanz. On the other hand they are pretty annoying even before the garanz appears.

Hmm... didn't notice that, I guess I almost always take out those robots first as their laser can be really annoying.

Quote:

Doesn't hurt to have the numbers if you have them right there but since I need time and exp counts and there are some differences between classes I will have to test all maps myself anyway.

well, I was going to just give you the exp count so you can concentrate on timing for those map anyway. There's no doubt in my mind that class makes a difference in which map is faster.

Anyway, here's what I got:
ruin1 3-2: 1563 exp
ruin2 1-1: 1371 exp
ruin3 3-1: 1856 exp
There might be some discrepancy, but it shouldn't be too big.

Hope that helps.

[quote]Don't you get double hit or don't you get hit at all? If you don't get hit, how far do you run away? I just let him hit me once since I thought it wouldn't save time to run away far enough. Have to test it.[/quote]
I rewatch my run, and I didn't get hit at all by rabarta.  Most of the time I run almost pass his right arm.  Buy it seems like I only need to run pass the ball structure.  At that time I played it safe as I didn't want to restart just because I want to save 10 sec...  But if you can test this properly, that be great.

[quote]In mines 2 2-1 (which I got in my run) was a lot faster for me than 1-1 but there might be some class differences.[/quote]
I was surprise by my testing result as well, since mines2 2-1 has the fewest enemies and rooms among all the maps.  It does have the highest number of garantz though(5 instead of 3).  So that might be what's slowing me down.

[quote]There are also some tactics that might make a difference. For instance in 1-1 you don't have to kill the dubchics in the room with the single garanz. On the other hand they are pretty annoying even before the garanz appears.[/quote]
Hmm... didn't notice that, I guess I almost always take out those robots first as their laser can be really annoying.

[quote]Doesn't hurt to have the numbers if you have them right there but since I need time and exp counts and there are some differences between classes I will have to test all maps myself anyway.[/quote]
well, I was going to just give you the exp count so you can concentrate on timing for those map anyway.  There's no doubt in my mind that class makes a difference in which map is faster.

Anyway, here's what I got:
ruin1 3-2: 1563 exp
ruin2 1-1: 1371 exp
ruin3 3-1: 1856 exp
There might be some discrepancy, but it shouldn't be too big.

Hope that helps.

dexter

Edit history:

dexter: 2007-09-04 11:27:58 pm

2007-09-04 11:27:34 pm

Quote:

I rewatch my run, and I didn't get hit at all by rabarta. Most of the time I run almost pass his right arm. Buy it seems like I only need to run pass the ball structure. At that time I played it safe as I didn't want to restart just because I want to save 10 sec... But if you can test this properly, that be great.

I used to attack df1 from the side and tried to get in a spot where rabarta doesn't hit me because of the zigzag pattern (you can see it on the minimap). Success rate was... moderate. Now I attack him from the front and run to the right when he casts rabarta (I assume this is what you meant all the time ;)). This works great.

BTW, in one DF1 fight I got frozen but managed to break free and heal before I got hit by rafoie. Might have been luck though. If he plays along I can kill him in less than 100 seconds but once he decided to use his rafoie + rabarta combo four times in a row and in the next round heaven punishments three times in a row. No problem to heal but it slows things down Wink

Quote:

I was surprise by my testing result as well, since mines2 2-1 has the fewest enemies and rooms among all the maps. It does have the highest number of garantz though(5 instead of 3). So that might be what's slowing me down.

When there are no other enemies they can be killed rather quickly (I assume you know how to let them kill themselves). They used to kill me a lot during my first mines tests but later I had much less problems.

I have now tested all ruins maps except 1-3-1, 2-1-2, 2-2-1, and 3-1-1. Did you get any of these? Best maps so far are 1-3-2, 2-1-1, and 3-3-2. Unfortunately this combo doesn't give me enough exp. 1-1-1 is not very fast but gives lots of easy exp (I love those groups of 6 dimenians which can all be killed with three rafoie hits) so I might end up using it.
Map 3-1-2 is absolutely abysmal, it took me more than twice as long as the best map.

[quote]I rewatch my run, and I didn't get hit at all by rabarta.  Most of the time I run almost pass his right arm.  Buy it seems like I only need to run pass the ball structure.  At that time I played it safe as I didn't want to restart just because I want to save 10 sec...  But if you can test this properly, that be great.[/quote]

I used to attack df1 from the side and tried to get in a spot where rabarta doesn't hit me because of the zigzag pattern (you can see it on the minimap). Success rate was... moderate. Now I attack him from the front and run to the right when he casts rabarta (I assume this is what you meant all the time ;)). This works great.

BTW, in one DF1 fight I got frozen but managed to break free and heal before I got hit by rafoie. Might have been luck though. If he plays along I can kill him in less than 100 seconds but once he decided to use his rafoie + rabarta combo four times in a row and in the next round heaven punishments three times in a row. No problem to heal but it slows things down ;)

[quote]I was surprise by my testing result as well, since mines2 2-1 has the fewest enemies and rooms among all the maps.  It does have the highest number of garantz though(5 instead of 3).  So that might be what's slowing me down.[/quote]

When there are no other enemies they can be killed rather quickly (I assume you know how to let them kill themselves). They used to kill me a lot during my first mines tests but later I had much less problems.

I have now tested all ruins maps except 1-3-1, 2-1-2, 2-2-1, and 3-1-1. Did you get any of these? Best maps so far are 1-3-2, 2-1-1, and 3-3-2. Unfortunately this combo doesn't give me enough exp. 1-1-1 is not very fast but gives lots of easy exp (I love those groups of 6 dimenians which can all be killed with three rafoie hits) so I might end up using it.
Map 3-1-2 is absolutely abysmal, it took me more than twice as long as the best map.

JoChi

Edit history:

JoChi: 2007-09-05 12:12:58 am

2007-09-05 12:06:21 am

Quote:

BTW, in one DF1 fight I got frozen but managed to break free and heal before I got hit by rafoie. Might have been luck though.

the faster you wiggle your analogue stick, the faster you break free of the ice.

Quote:

When there are no other enemies they can be killed rather quickly (I assume you know how to let them kill themselves).

you are talking about garantz right? Sure, I can get them to kill themselves, but that doesn't mean it will be faster than killing 4-8 gilchich. I even use ice trap to kill them faster.

I am starting to think the main reason is due to my not-so-refined-combat-skill at the beginning of the testing, which is when I got 2-2-1 a lot of time.

Quote:

I have now tested all ruins maps except 1-3-1, 2-1-2, 2-2-1, and 3-1-1. Did you get any of these?

Sorry, can't help you there... :-[

Quote:

Best maps so far are 1-3-2, 2-1-1, and 3-3-2. Unfortunately this combo doesn't give me enough exp. 1-1-1 is not very fast but gives lots of easy exp (I love those groups of 6 dimenians which can all be killed with three rafoie hits) so I might end up using it.
Map 3-1-2 is absolutely abysmal, it took me more than twice as long as the best map.

nice to know.

[quote]BTW, in one DF1 fight I got frozen but managed to break free and heal before I got hit by rafoie. Might have been luck though. [/quote]
the faster you wiggle your analogue stick, the faster you break free of the ice.

[quote]When there are no other enemies they can be killed rather quickly (I assume you know how to let them kill themselves).[/quote]
you are talking about garantz right?  Sure, I can get them to kill themselves, but that doesn't mean it will be faster than killing 4-8 gilchich.  I even use ice trap to kill them faster.

I am starting to think the main reason is due to my not-so-refined-combat-skill at the beginning of the testing, which is when I got 2-2-1 a lot of time.

[quote]I have now tested all ruins maps except 1-3-1, 2-1-2, 2-2-1, and 3-1-1. Did you get any of these? [/quote]
Sorry,  can't help you there... :-[

[quote]Best maps so far are 1-3-2, 2-1-1, and 3-3-2. Unfortunately this combo doesn't give me enough exp. 1-1-1 is not very fast but gives lots of easy exp (I love those groups of 6 dimenians which can all be killed with three rafoie hits) so I might end up using it.
Map 3-1-2 is absolutely abysmal, it took me more than twice as long as the best map.
[/quote]
nice to know.

D A P

2007-09-05 09:18:37 am

Quote:

the faster you wiggle your analogue stick, the faster you break free of the ice.

Left and right ONLY, all other directions have no affect.

dexter

Edit history:

dexter: 2007-09-07 10:45:30 pm

2007-09-06 10:34:03 pm

Quote:

Left and right ONLY, all other directions have no affect.

Thanks for the info. If I can break free reliably before rafoie hits me neither DF1 nor DF2 can kill me unless I screw up.

I timed now 2-2-1. It is ok but 2-1-1 is faster. I assume that the other maps are not available.

I also had a promising run (good maps, early scape doll for cash, and zonde 5) but I didn't get a single Digger/HP. Money can be a problem early in ruins since I need a lot of fluids and if I don't have enough cash I miss oportunities to get Digger/HPs.

EDIT: 2-1-1 is also (marginally) faster but I meant 2-3-1

EDIT 2: sorry, it seems that I completely messed up my post where I wrote about best maps. I made two mistakes (out of three, doh)

best maps seem to be:

1-3-2, 2-3-1, 3-2-1

the following maps are "ok" (one of them should be acceptable if the run is good)

2-1-1, 2-2-1, 3-3-2

Now the first edit actually makes sense Wink

dexter

2007-09-08 04:23:03 am

After a few failed attempts I just completed my first "real" ruins run (in my timing runs I borrowed some extra money from another character). To my surprise I got map 1-3-1 which raises the question whether 2-1-2 and 3-1-1 are also available.

The other maps I got were 2-1-1 and 3-3-2. Neither of them is a fastest map but all are ok and this combo suits my exp requirements pretty well. I leveled up in the last room before DF. DF1 was very nice (88 seconds), DF2 was not. He used lots of rafoie and rabarta attacks instead of heaven punishment and it took me 5 minutes to defeat him.

I would have been satisfied with the final time but my performance leaves room for improvement and I have to compare this to other routes.

http://www.wongr.net/dexter/pso/final1-MQ.mp4

JoChi

Edit history:

JoChi: 2007-09-09 12:11:54 am

2007-09-08 08:55:13 am

Nice, 2 hours and 17 13 minutes. An hour faster than Brightstar's run, and you say there's still room for improvement? Can't wait.
edit: oops, i guess i need to have my eyesight checked Tongue

So how long did ruin take? Roughly an hour?

PS. yes, now your edit makes alot more sense. Smiley

dexter

2007-09-08 04:04:28 pm

Actually 2:13. Maybe I should have uploaded the HQ version Wink

Save time after shopping was 1:25 so ruins took me 48 minutes. I lost about 40 seconds in ruins1. Ruins 2 and 3 had some mistakes as well and DF2 could have been faster. I have no idea whether this is a low or high 2:13 but I should be able to get something better.

D A P

2007-09-10 07:32:03 am

I've never heard of a ONE HOUR improvement.. This run is already groundbreaking.

dexter

Edit history:

dexter: 2007-09-13 02:01:46 pm

2007-09-13 02:00:55 pm

There were a few (Chrono Trigger for example) but of course it depends on the game "how much" an improvement of one hour is. The most impressive improvement I remember right now is probably dex' DeusEx run, which is twice as fast as the previous run.

The biggest factor in my run is the class difference. Contrary to my initial expectations a FOnewearl turned out to be very suited for a speed run (probably the fastest class) since the HP problem could be solved without much loss of time.

The other factor is that the old run is not always top notch. The comments suggest that the run was done under time pressure and it seems that there wasn't much planning except some map choices and the initial selection of class and game version.
The big point of the run was to demonstrate how items can be dropped in boss rooms to be able to use more than 10 monomates but on the other hand there is for example not really a reason to get hit by De Rol Le's regular attacks (not falling rocks) in the first place.

So while my run will be more than one hour faster than the old run it will most certainly not be one hour faster than JoChi's run (if you read this, do you need the suicide trick? Do you already have a strategy for DF1?)

Unfortunately I am still pretty busy but I hope to get a few attempts done next weekend.

There were a few (Chrono Trigger for example) but of course it depends on the game "how much" an improvement of one hour is. The most impressive improvement I remember right now is probably dex' DeusEx run, which is twice as fast as the previous run.

The biggest factor in my run is the class difference. Contrary to my initial expectations a FOnewearl turned out to be very suited for a speed run (probably the fastest class) since the HP problem could be solved without much loss of time.

The other factor is that the old run is not always top notch. The comments suggest that the run was done under time pressure and it seems that there wasn't much planning except some map choices and the initial selection of class and game version.
The big point of the run was to demonstrate how items can be dropped in boss rooms to be able to use more than 10 monomates but on the other hand there is for example not really a reason to get hit by De Rol Le's regular attacks (not falling rocks) in the first place.

So while my run will be more than one hour faster than the old run it will most certainly not be one hour faster than JoChi's run (if you read this, do you need the suicide trick? Do you already have a strategy for DF1?)

Unfortunately I am still pretty busy but I hope to get a few attempts done next weekend.

dexter

Edit history:

dexter: 2007-09-13 11:00:03 pm

2007-09-13 10:58:02 pm

I just got another attempt done, final time is 2:10 Smiley

This was my first serious attempt since last saturday and unfortunately I made again quite a few mistakes in ruins 1 and 2. My maps were 1-3-2 (best), 2-3-2 (mediocre), and 3-3-2 (ok). This is a little better than the maps in my last attempt but 2-3-2 could be replaced with something better. I leveled up after killing the last regular enemy so the experience counts matched well. IIRC I killed a few gunners which weren't necessary so if I get these maps again I might get my last exp points from darvants which would be pretty cool (unless DF1 uses heaven punishment ;))

DF1 was substandard (97 seconds) but like Vol Opt 2 this hardly matters. The biggest improvement compared to my last attempt was DF2 who was very cooperative. He didn't move too much and almost exclusively attacked with heaven punishment. At 181 seconds the fight was a whopping two minutes faster than last time. Unfortunately this is pure luck.

New goal is 2:0x Smiley

JoChi

Edit history:

JoChi: 2007-09-14 08:57:30 am

2007-09-13 11:12:49 pm

Dexter's post is pretty much right on the money. I estimate my current run to be around 2:30-2:45 (maybe sub 2:30). But I haven't done any testing on ruin yet, so that number might not be accurate.

As for the suicide trick, I won't be using it at all (at least not on any EP1 boss). I do recall running out of recovery once during my testing (against DF) a few years back, but all other time I beat DF no problem.
As long as I beat DF1 quickly, there's little danger of running out of recovery. Plus I am going to remedy any other recovery need with trimate and star atomizer I have saved up so far. Wink

The only boss that might need suicide trick is probably EP2's final boss, Olga Flow. But then again, I probably just need more practice against him.
=============

A little update from my end of the run:
RL is keeping me very busy, but hopefully I'll finish testing Mine this saturday. A more current test run in mine2 reveals 2-1 to be as fast as 1-1, but I like to be sure of that.

PS. the run I did over the summer had a save time of 3:09, so dexter's current time almost beats that by an hour Smiley

Dexter's post is pretty much right on the money.  I estimate my current run to be around 2:30-2:45 (maybe sub 2:30).  But I haven't done any testing on ruin yet, so that number might not be accurate.

As for the suicide trick, I won't be using it at all (at least not on any EP1 boss).  I do recall running out of recovery once during my testing (against DF) a few years back, but all other time I beat DF no problem.  
As long as I beat DF1 quickly, there's little danger of running out of recovery.  Plus I am going to remedy any other recovery need with trimate and star atomizer I have saved up so far. ;)

The only boss that might need suicide trick is probably EP2's final boss, Olga Flow.  But then again, I probably just need more practice against him.
=============

A little update from my end of the run:
RL is keeping me very busy, but hopefully I'll finish testing Mine this saturday.  A more current test run in mine2 reveals 2-1 to be as fast as 1-1, but I like to be sure of that.

PS. the run I did over the summer had a save time of 3:09, so dexter's current time almost beats that by an hour :)

dexter

Edit history:

dexter: 2007-09-16 03:07:02 am

2007-09-16 03:04:53 am

I did another attempt today. I made fewer mistakes than in my previous attempts and the time could have been 2:08 or maybe even 2:07 but I was 138 exp points short of level 16. I am going to look for easy extra exp in ruins 3 maps.

My maps were 1-3-2, 2-1-1, and 3-2-3.

JoChi

2007-09-17 10:47:36 pm

dexter, did you ever find a pattern to Vol Opt's pillar? I spent an hour or two rewatching my Vol Opt. fight, but I didn't notice anything.

Incidentally, I am pretty much done with Mine test run. mine1 3-1 will be used exclusively, and mine2 will be either 1-1 or 2-1. My fastest time for 2-2-1 was 20 sec. faster than 2-1-1. But then again, I recall doing exceptionally well during that 2-2-1 test run.

It looks like I will have some free time this week. Hopefully I will at least get the Mine segment done.

dexter

Edit history:

dexter: 2007-09-19 02:36:49 am

2007-09-18 04:23:48 pm

Quote:

dexter, did you ever find a pattern to Vol Opt's pillar? I spent an hour or two rewatching my Vol Opt. fight, but I didn't notice anything.

Unfortunately not. I have notes of quite a few Vol Opt fights but didn't find a definite pattern. There are possible biases (in almost all fights the first red pillar was on the left side) but this might have been chance.

BTW, did you notice that the five screens that are visible in the short cutscene before the fight starts become red in a seemingly random order? It would be interesting to compare two fights with the same order. Unfortunately I noticed this rather late and didn't note the order for most fights.

I am still kicking my butt that I screwed up one round in my segment. Vol Opt 1 in seven rounds would have been my personal record.

EDIT:
completed another attempt today, end time was 2:11. My maps were 1-1-1, 2-2-1, and 3-3-2. This seems to be roughly as fast as my last route. I wasted some exp points so a faster ruins 2 map would have helped. DF2 was 80 seconds slower than in my 2:10 run and I miscalculated my fluid use and had to do an extra shopping round before DF.

As you might have noticed I got 3-3-2 a lot recently and this time I beat my ruins 3 record (previously held by 3-2-1) by a few seconds. However, I got 3-2-1 only once in an early test run so with more practice it might still be faster.

[quote]dexter, did you ever find a pattern to Vol Opt's pillar?  I spent an hour or two rewatching my Vol Opt. fight, but I didn't notice anything. [/quote]
Unfortunately not. I have notes of quite a few Vol Opt fights but didn't find a definite pattern. There are possible biases (in almost all fights the first red pillar was on the left side) but this might have been chance.

BTW, did you notice that the five screens that are visible in the short cutscene before the fight starts become red in a seemingly random order? It would be interesting to compare two fights with the same order. Unfortunately I noticed this rather late and didn't note the order for most fights.

I am still kicking my butt that I screwed up one round in my segment. Vol Opt 1 in seven rounds would have been my personal record.

EDIT:
completed another attempt today, end time was 2:11. My maps were 1-1-1, 2-2-1, and 3-3-2. This seems to be roughly as fast as my last route. I wasted some exp points so a faster ruins 2 map would have helped. DF2 was 80 seconds slower than in my 2:10 run and I miscalculated my fluid use and had to do an extra shopping round before DF.

As you might have noticed I got 3-3-2 a lot recently and this time I beat my ruins 3 record (previously held by 3-2-1) by a few seconds. However, I got 3-2-1 only once in an early test run so with more practice it might still be faster.

JoChi

Edit history:

JoChi: 2007-09-21 10:18:17 am

2007-09-21 10:14:10 am

Alright, finally finished my Mine segment. Now the save time is 1:31, so Mine took me 33min. Cheesy

Although I did quit as soon as I reach ruin, instead of my usual "return to the city to sell stuff" routine. That would have caused me another 1.5 min.
Still, I was expecting 35-40min, so it's a small victory for me. 8)

Map for Mine1 was 3-1, and I got my usual affair of sub-9min. I didn't get a brand when I completed mine1, but I didn't care at that point.

Mine2 I got 1-1. Clocking in at 13.5 min, it was more than a minute slower than my fastest time. I think it was because I got delayed in the final 2 rooms, I stopped thinking and were killing enemy inefficiently.

Anyway, I never really timed my boss fight, so I am not sure how well it went compare to my test runs. But I got sub 7min when I leveled up.

Now onwards to ruin.

PS: I didn't notice the screens turn blue at different pattern at the beginning of Vol Opt fight. Shocked

Nice find. But I did notice Vol Opt would skip different amount of screen. Still, there just so much possible variable. I suppose it's a lost cause.

Alright, finally finished my Mine segment.  Now the save time is 1:31, so Mine took me 33min. :D  Although I did quit as soon as I reach ruin, instead of my usual "return to the city to sell stuff" routine.  That would have caused me another 1.5 min.  
Still, I was expecting 35-40min, so it's a small victory for me. 8)

Map for Mine1 was 3-1, and I got my usual affair of sub-9min.  I didn't get a brand when I completed mine1, but I didn't care at that point.

Mine2 I got 1-1.  Clocking in at 13.5 min, it was more than a minute slower than my fastest time.  I think it was because I got delayed in the final 2 rooms, I stopped thinking and were killing enemy inefficiently.

Anyway, I never really timed my boss fight, so I am not sure how well it went compare to my test runs.  But I got sub 7min when I leveled up.

Now onwards to ruin.

PS: I didn't notice the screens turn blue at different pattern at the beginning of Vol Opt fight. :o Nice find.  But I did notice Vol Opt would skip different amount of screen.  Still, there just so much possible variable.  I suppose it's a lost cause.

dexter

2007-09-24 03:08:35 am

Congrats, I am looking forward to seeing this. I was away over the weekend so nothing new from my run.

JoChi

Edit history:

JoChi: 2007-11-05 02:10:09 am

2007-10-01 12:07:22 am

...The lack of updates for so long saddens me. Unfortunately, my RL work has picked up again, and I probably won't have time to play for the next two weeks. Sad

To pass the time, let me post a bit of the past segment that I have completed but never really talk about.

Complete forest with save time of 13 min.
Nothing special in forest1. Got the best map, finish with my average 1:5x (I have never gotten below 100 sec like dexter has).
forest2 also went uneventfully. Finish it in 5:0x, 10 sec. faster than my fastest time. But I didn't do extensive testing on forest2, so that didn't mean much.

I was slightly delay on the last phase of boss fight, being a little too careful about not getting in front of the dragon. But it was otherwise a clean fight, finish in 3:3x (including a minute of picking up boxes). I probably should have memorize how many hit it takes to fell the dragon from 30% so I can get that part faster. I could probably streamline the box picking a little more too.

The rest are 1:3x from character creation to teleport at the beginning, and 1:1x for talking to mayor at the end and shopping.

Overall I think I might be able to slash 3x sec. off, which migh translate into a minute on the timer. But I can's say for sure.

Interestingly enough, from the moment I hit create till the game saved, it took me exactly 13:40 (give or take a few seconds). So somewhere along the line the game must have not counted the time, perhaps during map loading (5 sec. per area)?
edit: oops, DAP already mentioned the timer does not round up. Tongue

I guess the question is whether the game remember seconds or not.

...The lack of updates for so long saddens me.  Unfortunately, my RL work has picked up again, and I probably won't have time to play for the next two weeks. :(

To pass the time, let me post a bit of the past segment that I have completed but never really talk about.

Complete forest with save time of 13 min.
Nothing special in forest1.  Got the best map, finish with my average 1:5x (I have never gotten below 100 sec like dexter has).
forest2 also went uneventfully.  Finish it in 5:0x, 10 sec. faster than my fastest time.  But I didn't do extensive testing on forest2, so that didn't mean much.

I was slightly delay on the last phase of boss fight, being a little too careful about not getting in front of the dragon.  But it was otherwise a clean fight, finish in 3:3x (including a minute of picking up boxes).  I probably should have memorize how many hit it takes to fell the dragon from 30% so I can get that part faster.  I could probably streamline the box picking a little more too.

The rest are 1:3x from character creation to teleport at the beginning, and 1:1x for talking to mayor at the end and shopping.

Overall I think I might be able to slash 3x sec. off, which migh translate into a minute on the timer.  But I can's say for sure.

Interestingly enough, from the moment I hit create till the game saved, it took me exactly 13:40 (give or take a few seconds).  So somewhere along the line the game must have not counted the time, perhaps during map loading (5 sec. per area)?  
[b]edit:[/b] oops, DAP already mentioned the timer does not round up. :P  I guess the question is whether the game remember seconds or not.

dexter

2007-10-01 02:29:56 am

Quote:

...The lack of updates for so long saddens me. Unfortunately, my RL work has picked up again, and I probably won't have time to play for the next two weeks. Sad

Sorry to hear that.

I am working on my run but ruins are giving me a hard time lately. During the last week I got a whopping three runs with acceptable maps and exactly one Digger/HP in all three of them together. I would have done an extra Digger/HP segment by now but I don't have the money so this is out of question.

I just finished the same set of maps as in my 2:10 run (1-3-2, 2-3-2, 3-3-2). 2-3-2 sucks but I need a lot of exp after 1-3-2. 1-1-1 is only 100 seconds slower but gives 513 more exp points. So anything starting with 1-3-2 is likely not optimal (for my run) but I did well and was 79 seconds faster. If I had gotten the Digger/HPs I need and DF would have been cooperative this would have been at least a 2:09.

Maybe I should change my tactic and reset if I don't get my first Digger/HP after one or two shopping rounds. Anyway, I am to the point where I am going to submit anything below 2:10.

Quote:

To pass the time, let me post a bit of the past segment that I have completed but never really talk about.

Complete forest with save time of 13 min.

Nothing special in forest1. Got the best map, finish with my average 1:5x (I have never gotten below 100 sec like dexter has).
forest2 also went uneventfully. Finish it in 5:0x, 10 sec. faster than my faster time. But I didn't do extensive testing on forest2, so that didn't mean much.

I was slightly delay on the last phase of boss fight, being a little too careful about not getting in front of the dragon. But it was otherwise a clean fight, finish in 3:3x (including a minute of picking up boxes). I probably should have memorize how many hit it takes to fell the dragon from 30% so I can get that part faster. I could probably streamline the box picking a little more too.

Forest is probably the most interesting part of the game except boss fights and one or two ruins and mines rooms since it is short but has many small time savers. I long for the days when getting enough monofluids was my only concern Wink

I did forest 1 in exactly 100 seconds (a rappy took an unusual route an slowed me down) and forest 2 in 308 seconds. I could have saved 10 seconds if I hadn't destroyed some crates when the last monofluid I needed was already on the ground but I was still pretty lucky with fluids. Another forest 2 map is in theory about 10 seconds faster but I would have needed one more monofluid (= more crates) so it is pretty much the same.

Dragon was disposed of in 164 seconds (from end of animation to last hit). I missed a few times with barta but I didn't waste too much.

Quote:

edit: oops, DAP already mentioned the timer does not round up. Tongue

I guess the question is whether the game remember seconds or not.

Seconds are saved.

[quote]...The lack of updates for so long saddens me.  Unfortunately, my RL work has picked up again, and I probably won't have time to play for the next two weeks. :([/quote]

Sorry to hear that.

I am working on my run but ruins are giving me a hard time lately. During the last week I got a whopping three runs with acceptable maps and exactly one Digger/HP in all three of them together. I would have done an extra Digger/HP segment by now but I don't have the money so this is out of question.

I just finished the same set of maps as in my 2:10 run (1-3-2, 2-3-2, 3-3-2). 2-3-2 sucks but I need a lot of exp after 1-3-2. 1-1-1 is only 100 seconds slower but gives 513 more exp points. So anything starting with 1-3-2 is likely not optimal (for my run) but I did well and was 79 seconds faster. If I had gotten the Digger/HPs I need and DF would have been cooperative this would have been at least a 2:09.

Maybe I should change my tactic and reset if I don't get my first Digger/HP after one or two shopping rounds. Anyway, I am to the point where I am going to submit anything below 2:10.

[quote]To pass the time, let me post a bit of the past segment that I have completed but never really talk about.

Complete forest with save time of 13 min.

Nothing special in forest1.  Got the best map, finish with my average 1:5x (I have never gotten below 100 sec like dexter has).
forest2 also went uneventfully.  Finish it in 5:0x, 10 sec. faster than my faster time.  But I didn't do extensive testing on forest2, so that didn't mean much.

I was slightly delay on the last phase of boss fight, being a little too careful about not getting in front of the dragon.  But it was otherwise a clean fight, finish in 3:3x (including a minute of picking up boxes).  I probably should have memorize how many hit it takes to fell the dragon from 30% so I can get that part faster.  I could probably streamline the box picking a little more too.[/quote]

Forest is probably the most interesting part of the game except boss fights and one or two ruins and mines rooms since it is short but has many small time savers. I long for the days when getting enough monofluids was my only concern ;)

I did forest 1 in exactly 100 seconds (a rappy took an unusual route an slowed me down) and forest 2 in 308 seconds. I could have saved 10 seconds if I hadn't destroyed some crates when the last monofluid I needed was already on the ground but I was still pretty lucky with fluids. Another forest 2 map is in theory about 10 seconds faster but I would have needed one more monofluid (= more crates) so it is pretty much the same.

Dragon was disposed of in 164 seconds (from end of animation to last hit). I missed a few times with barta but I didn't waste too much.

[quote][b]edit:[/b] oops, DAP already mentioned the timer does not round up. :P  I guess the question is whether the game remember seconds or not.[/quote]

Seconds are saved.

dexter

2007-10-07 02:36:07 am

I did a ruins run today which could have been almost too good to be true. I got fastest maps, did few mistakes, got early Digger/HPs, got early zonde 5 (speeds up So Dimenians, Dark Belras and DF1), had enough money all the time (I could buy enough difluids to finish the game in the middle of ruins 3 so I needed only five shopping tours), and found a HP material (that is why I kept playing).

Unfortunately I didn't get the second HP material so I was one HP short of surviving heaven punishment. If I had gotten it and DF2 would have been cooperative this could have been a freaking 2:02.

80-90 seconds of that is probably due to zonde 5 but the maps still make a big difference so I consider changing my strategy and doing two HP material hunting segments. I already got one with about 100 seconds of game time (about the worst I would accept). I am also considering to hunt for a decent barta upgrade since I am still using barta 2 and this would speed up La Dimenians, Delsabers, and most importantly DF2.

These extra segments would of course chop off a few minutes from the time gain but it should also make the run less frustrating. If anyone is ever crazy enough to go for a Dragon/HP in caves he should aim for a sub-2:00 but I am certainly not going to do that (at least De Rol Le wouldn't be such a PITA anymore).

I did a ruins run today which could have been almost too good to be true. I got fastest maps, did few mistakes, got early Digger/HPs, got early zonde 5 (speeds up So Dimenians, Dark Belras and DF1), had enough money all the time (I could buy enough difluids to finish the game in the middle of ruins 3 so I needed only five shopping tours), and found a HP material (that is why I kept playing).

Unfortunately I didn't get the second HP material so I was one HP short of surviving heaven punishment. If I had gotten it and DF2 would have been cooperative this could have been a freaking 2:02.

80-90 seconds of that is probably due to zonde 5 but the maps still make a big difference so I consider changing my strategy and doing two HP material hunting segments. I already got one with about 100 seconds of game time (about the worst I would accept). I am also considering to hunt for a decent barta upgrade since I am still using barta 2 and this would speed up La Dimenians, Delsabers, and most importantly DF2.

These extra segments would of course chop off a few minutes from the time gain but it should also make the run less frustrating. If anyone is ever crazy enough to go for a Dragon/HP in caves he should aim for a sub-2:00 but I am certainly not going to do that (at least De Rol Le wouldn't be such a PITA anymore).

Lag.Com

2007-10-07 11:48:04 am

sda loyalist

I admire your tenacity in this; 2:02 is a fantastic time to shoot for. I can find no fault in your strategies. You might want to give it a rest before you try again for a Dragon/HP, haha...

dexter

Edit history:

dexter: 2007-10-08 03:14:04 am

2007-10-07 09:16:22 pm

Quote:

I admire your tenacity in this; 2:02 is a fantastic time to shoot for.

Well, except that I am not shooting for it. Wink

Even without a barta or zonde upgrade, HP materials, or me doing some stupid mistake the chance that everything else goes right is already rather low and I don't remember getting two HP materials in any of my ruins runs so far. If I would count on that I could probably go back and hunt for a Dragon/HP in the first place.

I hope to get my second HP material in 80 seconds and I have yet to test how much a barta upgrade saves (probably more than the 80-100 seconds to get it). So in the end the improvement won't be all that impressive but it should still save time and make the final segment easier. At least I won't have to care about getting enough exp anymore and can concentrate solely on the fastest maps.

Of course it doesn't feel good that the run could be several minutes faster with "just a little more luck" but that would be too frustrating and I need to finish this run before metroid prime 3 is released in europe in three weeks Wink

Furthermore, with tas like luck manipulation more than 15 minutes could easily be saved (no hunting segments, no shopping tours, no need to pickup loot for money, always best available spells) so maybe I shouldn't think about it too much.

Quote:

You might want to give it a rest before you try again for a Dragon/HP, haha...

Just the thought of defeating a Nar Lily but not getting a Dragon/HP (the chance is 7/8 IIRC) or getting slow maps afterwards makes me cringe Wink

EDIT: got barta 5 in just ~63 seconds game time after less than 4 hours of hunting. I can now kill Delsabers in 4 hits instead of 7 and La Dimenians in 3 instead of 5. This plus a faster DF2 fight will make it definitely worthwhile.

[quote]I admire your tenacity in this; 2:02 is a fantastic time to shoot for.[/quote]

Well, except that I am not shooting for it. ;)
Even without a barta or zonde upgrade, HP materials, or me doing some stupid mistake the chance that everything else goes right is already rather low and I don't remember getting two HP materials in any of my ruins runs so far. If I would count on that I could probably go back and hunt for a Dragon/HP in the first place.

I hope to get my second HP material in 80 seconds and I have yet to test how much a barta upgrade saves (probably more than the 80-100 seconds to get it). So in the end the improvement won't be all that impressive but it should still save time and make the final segment easier. At least I won't have to care about getting enough exp anymore and can concentrate solely on the fastest maps.

Of course it doesn't feel good that the run could be several minutes faster with "just a little more luck" but that would be too frustrating and I need to finish this run before metroid prime 3 is released in europe in three weeks ;)
Furthermore, with tas like luck manipulation more than 15 minutes could easily be saved (no hunting segments, no shopping tours, no need to pickup loot for money, always best available spells) so maybe I shouldn't think about it too much.

[quote]You might want to give it a rest before you try again for a Dragon/HP, haha...[/quote]

Just the thought of defeating a Nar Lily but not getting a Dragon/HP (the chance is 7/8 IIRC) or getting slow maps afterwards makes me cringe ;)

EDIT: got barta 5 in just ~63 seconds game time after less than 4 hours of hunting. I can now kill Delsabers in 4 hits instead of 7 and La Dimenians in 3 instead of 5. This plus a faster DF2 fight will make it definitely worthwhile.

dexter

Edit history:

dexter: 2007-10-11 03:42:54 am

2007-10-10 11:38:51 pm

In case anyone except JoChi or the casual moderator is still reading this thread: I am DONE.

In the end I couldn't shoot for a 2:02 but here is Phantasy Star Online episode 1, beaten with a FOnewearl in 12 segments with no deaths and no leveling in 2:03.

I don't get why I didn't change my strategy earlier but it in the end it really paid off. I got best maps and some stupid mistakes were more than offset by the fact that I was lucky enough to get zonde 5. There are also a few real highlights like defeating a pack of two Chaos Bringers and a Dark Belra without getting hit.

Before I start encoding, writing comments, sending all the stuff to mikwuyama, etc. I want to thank everyone here for lots of help with strategies, PSO resources, general hints, and encouragement; especially JoChi (kept me from doing stupid things several times), nate (his malaria.avi got me interested in doing this run in the first place), and DAP. Without your help this run would have been much closer to my original goal of 3 hours Wink

In case anyone except JoChi or the casual moderator is still reading this thread: I am [b]DONE[/b].

In the end I couldn't shoot for a 2:02 but here is Phantasy Star Online episode 1, beaten with a FOnewearl in 12 segments with no deaths and no leveling in 2:03.

I don't get why I didn't change my strategy earlier but it in the end it really paid off. I got best maps and some stupid mistakes were more than offset by the fact that I was lucky enough to get zonde 5. There are also a few real highlights like defeating a pack of two Chaos Bringers and a Dark Belra without getting hit.

Before I start encoding, writing comments, sending all the stuff to mikwuyama, etc. I want to thank everyone here for lots of help with strategies, PSO resources, general hints, and encouragement; especially JoChi (kept me from doing stupid things several times), nate (his malaria.avi got me interested in doing this run in the first place), and DAP. Without your help this run would have been much closer to my original goal of 3 hours ;)

nate

2007-10-10 11:58:07 pm

hahah, congrats, and i'm happy to hear that about the malaria gag. i really wanted to see this done but i just didn't have the time and so you came through for me (and for everyone else who wants to see this of course).

about the encoding, be sure to shoot a segment in all qualities my way so i can do a quick compatibility check.

JoChi

Edit history:

JoChi: 2007-10-11 01:02:17 am

2007-10-11 12:55:38 am

Nice, congratulation. Glad to be of service. Smiley

This run has exceed all of my expectation. Can't wait to see it.

Like to say I made progress too, but the sad truth is real life still have a firm grasp on me >.<. Plus I am lazy Tongue

....

Can you post your individual segment times, so I can post it in the first page...