The Legend of Zelda--all categories

2012-01-20 08:46:22 pm

Highly Evolved

Not too worried about level 9 with the White Sword, since you only have one wizrobe room and two patras.

Level 7 is the issue. Three Darknut rooms. One of them has the diagonal block pattern, which splits up the darknuts. Bombs aren't terribly useful, there. Plus, with the diminished health, let's see, nine hearts, the gleeok will be slower.

Definitely risky, and obviously not going to be done for a marathon type run, but it may be explorable for an SDA run.

Trebor

2012-01-25 03:03:29 pm

Trebdor the Selbonator

You guys have no idea how glad I am to see discussion about another second quest run. It's a funny story, because for the past month or so, I had been seriously considering re-doing my run. Pretty good timing here.

I'm with you guys on the MMG; that thing is a disaster. Avoid it for a marathon run. I have played around with routes that eliminate it, but I never really liked any of them, as they either involved walking extra screens or killing enemies for rupees.

Anyway, I gotta head from work to more work, but I'll be around more often now. Keep it up.

Darkwing Duck

2012-01-27 05:06:16 am

Highly Evolved

The good is that in marathon type runs, I'm averaging a bit below 37 minutes for first quest, best being somewhere around 35:45.

The bad is the second quest has been more problematic, having me die more frequently.

The ugly is that I figured out how to do the screen scroll glitch and feel addicted to trying it out more often.

More on the second quest. The marathon run I completed had a second quest time of about 48:00. Had there not been 5 deaths and 5 minutes lost in level 5, it would have been a 43:00.

The marathon route is likely slower than the current route, so I think sub 42:00 is attainable. Lots of options to explore at the moment, but I need to be more consistent with avoiding hits, since the second quest is more about dodging than it is killing and replenishing health.

Trebor

2012-01-27 11:00:44 am

Trebdor the Selbonator

Quote from Darkwing Duck:

Lots of options to explore at the moment, but I need to be more consistent with avoiding hits, since the second quest is more about dodging than it is killing and replenishing health.

This. Not only red bubbles, but there are all kinds of ways to die from inconveniently laid out rooms with inconveniently placed enemies.

I just compared Solairflaire's route on the previous page with the route used in my run, and the difference in the number of screens you walk through isn't not as much as I first thought. Not counting the shop screens to get the arrow, candle, and 100 secret (as they are common to all routes regardless), his route was around 106 screens of overworld time versus the run route of 101 screens. I stopped counting the screens after Level 7, because the route to 9 is the same regardless. I also cut out the first screen with the wooden sword. For his route, I included paying a HC in Level 4, picking up the HC in the desert, and grabbing a 30 rupee stash NE of Level 3.

Because I'm also at work right now and can't devote my full attention to the nuances of the two routes, I could've easily missed something. You may end up with a different number than I do due to the way I counted some screens twice (like the white sword screen) versus once (the 100 secret screen), but I was consistent in my comparison. Anyway, very long story short, cutting out the MMG only costs like an extra 5 screens, give or take.

[quote="Darkwing Duck"]Lots of options to explore at the moment, but I need to be more consistent with avoiding hits, since the second quest is more about dodging than it is killing and replenishing health.[/quote]

This.  Not only red bubbles, but there are all kinds of ways to die from inconveniently laid out rooms with inconveniently placed enemies.

I just compared Solairflaire's route on the previous page with the route used in my run, and the difference in the number of screens you walk through isn't not as much as I first thought.  Not counting the shop screens to get the arrow, candle, and 100 secret (as they are common to all routes regardless), his route was around 106 screens of overworld time versus the run route of 101 screens.  I stopped counting the screens after Level 7, because the route to 9 is the same regardless.  I also cut out the first screen with the wooden sword.  For his route, I included paying a HC in Level 4, picking up the HC in the desert, and grabbing a 30 rupee stash NE of Level 3.

Because I'm also at work right now and can't devote my full attention to the nuances of the two routes, I could've easily missed something.  You may end up with a different number than I do due to the way I counted some screens twice (like the white sword screen) versus once (the 100 secret screen), but I was consistent in my comparison.  Anyway, very long story short, cutting out the MMG only costs like an extra 5 screens, give or take.

Darkwing Duck

2012-01-27 04:02:04 pm

Highly Evolved

Quote from Trebor:

Quote from Darkwing Duck:

Lots of options to explore at the moment, but I need to be more consistent with avoiding hits, since the second quest is more about dodging than it is killing and replenishing health.

This. Not only red bubbles, but there are all kinds of ways to die from inconveniently laid out rooms with inconveniently placed enemies.

I just compared Solairflaire's route on the previous page with the route used in my run, and the difference in the number of screens you walk through isn't not as much as I first thought. Not counting the shop screens to get the arrow, candle, and 100 secret (as they are common to all routes regardless), his route was around 106 screens of overworld time versus the run route of 101 screens. I stopped counting the screens after Level 7, because the route to 9 is the same regardless. I also cut out the first screen with the wooden sword. For his route, I included paying a HC in Level 4, picking up the HC in the desert, and grabbing a 30 rupee stash NE of Level 3.

Because I'm also at work right now and can't devote my full attention to the nuances of the two routes, I could've easily missed something. You may end up with a different number than I do due to the way I counted some screens twice (like the white sword screen) versus once (the 100 secret screen), but I was consistent in my comparison. Anyway, very long story short, cutting out the MMG only costs like an extra 5 screens, give or take.

I start blending screens when I start counting them in my head, especially once you get past ten, so it's usually an exercise in futility when I do it. But yes, it doesn't feel like it's much difference.

The funny thing about the second quest is that the outlier dungeon is actually level 1. Finding when to do level 1 is compelling. I know the TAS does 1 first because you up+A warp afterward and you're one screen from a money making game, then one screen from a blue candle shop. In a non Up+A run, you have to walk all the way to that money making game. Seven screens of walking, if I counted correctly.

The walk to 6, ladder, PB, and then 8 and 4 are fixed. Can fit 1 into there, which is five screens out of the way, so ten total. Going to 5 after 4 is fixed. Can do 1 after 4, then walk to 3, 7, and do 6 last if you're not doing magical sword. Doing 1 first in a marathon route isn't ideal because you HAVE to rely on bomb luck, so the route I have for a marathon setting will stay.

2
1
HC
30 secret
3
HC
Ladder
PB
8
WS
4
5
HC
MS
7
6
9

[quote="Trebor"][quote="Darkwing Duck"]Lots of options to explore at the moment, but I need to be more consistent with avoiding hits, since the second quest is more about dodging than it is killing and replenishing health.[/quote]

This.  Not only red bubbles, but there are all kinds of ways to die from inconveniently laid out rooms with inconveniently placed enemies.

I just compared Solairflaire's route on the previous page with the route used in my run, and the difference in the number of screens you walk through isn't not as much as I first thought.  Not counting the shop screens to get the arrow, candle, and 100 secret (as they are common to all routes regardless), his route was around 106 screens of overworld time versus the run route of 101 screens.  I stopped counting the screens after Level 7, because the route to 9 is the same regardless.  I also cut out the first screen with the wooden sword.  For his route, I included paying a HC in Level 4, picking up the HC in the desert, and grabbing a 30 rupee stash NE of Level 3.

Because I'm also at work right now and can't devote my full attention to the nuances of the two routes, I could've easily missed something.  You may end up with a different number than I do due to the way I counted some screens twice (like the white sword screen) versus once (the 100 secret screen), but I was consistent in my comparison.  Anyway, very long story short, cutting out the MMG only costs like an extra 5 screens, give or take.[/quote]

I start blending screens when I start counting them in my head, especially once you get past ten, so it's usually an exercise in futility when I do it.  But yes, it doesn't feel like it's much difference.

The funny thing about the second quest is that the outlier dungeon is actually level 1.  Finding when to do level 1 is compelling.  I know the TAS does 1 first because you up+A warp afterward and you're one screen from a money making game, then one screen from a blue candle shop.  In a non Up+A run, you have to walk all the way to that money making game.  Seven screens of walking, if I counted correctly.

The walk to 6, ladder, PB, and then 8 and 4 are fixed.  Can fit 1 into there, which is five screens out of the way, so ten total.  Going to 5 after 4 is fixed.  Can do 1 after 4, then walk to 3, 7, and do 6 last if you're not doing magical sword.   Doing 1 first in a marathon route isn't ideal because you HAVE to rely on bomb luck, so the route I have for a marathon setting will stay.

2
1
HC
30 secret
3
HC
Ladder
PB
8
WS
4
5
HC
MS
7
6
9

Trebor

2012-01-27 09:26:35 pm

Trebdor the Selbonator

Yeah, that's definitely a solid marathon route. I wouldn't change it either. My comparison was more towards an SDA submitted run where you can take a few more risks.

I'd love for there to be a faster route than the current run that completely eliminates the MMG. The question is would SDA accept a run that was technically a slower route (even if by only a bit), but easier due to the lack of the MMG.

Solairflaire

2012-01-30 01:13:18 am

So, I did the analysis I had done for the 1st quest routes on the current routes that are presented. I'll just put the truncated version in the post and attach the detailed one. I also made the Lost Woods count as 4 screens instead of just 1 because taking the stair warp from 7 to 6 is part of a couple of the routes, so those extra screens in the Lost Woods need to be counted. I also included the Marathon route to see how it stacked up. It provided the most surprising result.

Solairflaire's w/ MS: 132
Solairflaire's w/o MS: 111 (note, this skips all HC on overworld and assumes you'll get 60 rupees off of enemies after only 3 levels)

Current on SDA: 131 (this could be higher because of needing to do the MMG more than once
Current on SDA w/o MS: 116 (skips overworld HCs)

"Marathon" route: 129
"Marathon" route w/o MS: 114 (skips overworld HCs)

I also discovered that getting the Magic Sword after 5 or 6 won't really matter for Overworld routing. Getting after 5 allows you to skip the HCs in 7 and 6 and will make the Gleeok in 6 a tad faster. So, I think it'll be faster to get it after 5.

Getting the 30 rupee in old 6 might be necessary for my No MS route. If so, add 3 screens. Getting the HC north of 6 or in the Desert will add 3 screens as well for each.

It's possible I made an error or two somewhere. If so, let me know.

Quote from Trebor:

The question is would SDA accept a run that was technically a slower route (even if by only a bit), but easier due to the lack of the MMG.

This would mostly come down to who verifies it. In general, if it's only a slightly slower route, but has superior gameplay, it'll probably be accepted. Though some people could argue otherwise, that's how it generally is, unless the game is already highly optimized. At least from what I've seen of what's on SDA.

So, I did the analysis I had done for the 1st quest routes on the current routes that are presented. I'll just put the truncated version in the post and attach the detailed one. I also made the Lost Woods count as 4 screens instead of just 1 because taking the stair warp from 7 to 6 is part of a couple of the routes, so those extra screens in the Lost Woods need to be counted. I also included the Marathon route to see how it stacked up. It provided the most surprising result.

Solairflaire's w/ MS: 132
Solairflaire's w/o MS: 111 (note, this skips all HC on overworld and assumes you'll get 60 rupees off of enemies after only 3 levels)

Current on SDA: 131 (this could be higher because of needing to do the MMG more than once
Current on SDA w/o MS: 116 (skips overworld HCs)

"Marathon" route: 129
"Marathon" route w/o MS: 114 (skips overworld HCs)

I also discovered that getting the Magic Sword after 5 or 6 won't really matter for Overworld routing. Getting after 5 allows you to skip the HCs in 7 and 6 and will make the Gleeok in 6 a tad faster. So, I think it'll be faster to get it after 5.

Getting the 30 rupee in old 6 might be necessary for my No MS route. If so, add 3 screens. Getting the HC north of 6 or in the Desert will add 3 screens as well for each.

It's possible I made an error or two somewhere. If so, let me know.

[quote="Trebor"] The question is would SDA accept a run that was technically a slower route (even if by only a bit), but easier due to the lack of the MMG.[/quote]

This would mostly come down to who verifies it. In general, if it's only a slightly slower route, but has superior gameplay, it'll probably be accepted. Though some people could argue otherwise, that's how it generally is, unless the game is already highly optimized. At least from what I've seen of what's on SDA.

Attachment:

Zelda 1 Quest 2.xlsx

Darkwing Duck

2012-01-30 01:58:01 am

Highly Evolved

Quote from Solairflaire:

So, I did the analysis I had done for the 1st quest routes on the current routes that are presented. I'll just put the truncated version in the post and attach the detailed one. I also made the Lost Woods count as 4 screens instead of just 1 because taking the stair warp from 7 to 6 is part of a couple of the routes, so those extra screens in the Lost Woods need to be counted. I also included the Marathon route to see how it stacked up. It provided the most surprising result.

Solairflaire's w/ MS: 132
Solairflaire's w/o MS: 111 (note, this skips all HC on overworld and assumes you'll get 60 rupees off of enemies after only 3 levels)

Current on SDA: 131 (this could be higher because of needing to do the MMG more than once
Current on SDA w/o MS: 116 (skips overworld HCs)

"Marathon" route: 129
"Marathon" route w/o MS: 114 (skips overworld HCs)

I also discovered that getting the Magic Sword after 5 or 6 won't really matter for Overworld routing. Getting after 5 allows you to skip the HCs in 7 and 6 and will make the Gleeok in 6 a tad faster. So, I think it'll be faster to get it after 5.

Getting the 30 rupee in old 6 might be necessary for my No MS route. If so, add 3 screens. Getting the HC north of 6 or in the Desert will add 3 screens as well for each.

It's possible I made an error or two somewhere. If so, let me know.

Quote from Trebor:

The question is would SDA accept a run that was technically a slower route (even if by only a bit), but easier due to the lack of the MMG.

This would mostly come down to who verifies it. In general, if it's only a slightly slower route, but has superior gameplay, it'll probably be accepted. Though some people could argue otherwise, that's how it generally is, unless the game is already highly optimized. At least from what I've seen of what's on SDA.

Heh, marathon route has fewer screens. That isn't to say it's faster, since the screens could be longer (more horizontal movement than vertical), but it's interesting nonetheless.

Re: Old 6 30 secret.

Won't necessarily be three screens. May be more. This is due to the spawn patterns the screen below old 6. In practice for marathon routes, I came into that screen with a blue lynel walking up the stairs. Have to reload the room. Got a red one going up the stairs. Another reload. Got a walkable pattern after that. Not a huge loss, but a loss.

In any case, the question becomes, do nearly 30 screens of walking take longer than levels 6, 7, and 9 without the magical sword?

Let's see, level 7 has three forced darknut rooms and the four headed gleeok. 6 has the two headed gleeok. 9 has a forced wizrobe room, a blue lanmola room (rarely use sword, but sometimes is necessary), two patras, and Gannon. Can optionally kill vires for heart/bomb drops if necessary, required bombs or silver arrow without magical sword. Success rate is going to be lower with the white sword, but that's not necessarily a discerning factor.

[quote="Solairflaire"]So, I did the analysis I had done for the 1st quest routes on the current routes that are presented. I'll just put the truncated version in the post and attach the detailed one. I also made the Lost Woods count as 4 screens instead of just 1 because taking the stair warp from 7 to 6 is part of a couple of the routes, so those extra screens in the Lost Woods need to be counted. I also included the Marathon route to see how it stacked up. It provided the most surprising result.

Solairflaire's w/ MS: 132
Solairflaire's w/o MS: 111 (note, this skips all HC on overworld and assumes you'll get 60 rupees off of enemies after only 3 levels)

Current on SDA: 131 (this could be higher because of needing to do the MMG more than once
Current on SDA w/o MS: 116 (skips overworld HCs)

"Marathon" route: 129
"Marathon" route w/o MS: 114 (skips overworld HCs)

I also discovered that getting the Magic Sword after 5 or 6 won't really matter for Overworld routing. Getting after 5 allows you to skip the HCs in 7 and 6 and will make the Gleeok in 6 a tad faster. So, I think it'll be faster to get it after 5.

Getting the 30 rupee in old 6 might be necessary for my No MS route. If so, add 3 screens. Getting the HC north of 6 or in the Desert will add 3 screens as well for each.

It's possible I made an error or two somewhere. If so, let me know.

[quote="Trebor"] The question is would SDA accept a run that was technically a slower route (even if by only a bit), but easier due to the lack of the MMG.[/quote]

This would mostly come down to who verifies it. In general, if it's only a slightly slower route, but has superior gameplay, it'll probably be accepted. Though some people could argue otherwise, that's how it generally is, unless the game is already highly optimized. At least from what I've seen of what's on SDA.
[/quote]

Heh, marathon route has fewer screens.  That isn't to say it's faster, since the screens could be longer (more horizontal movement than vertical), but it's interesting nonetheless.

Re: Old 6 30 secret.

Won't necessarily be three screens.  May be more.  This is due to the spawn patterns the screen below old 6.  In practice for marathon routes, I came into that screen with a blue lynel walking up the stairs.  Have to reload the room.  Got a red one going up the stairs.  Another reload.  Got a walkable pattern after that.  Not a huge loss, but a loss.

In any case, the question becomes, do nearly 30 screens of walking take longer than levels 6, 7, and 9 without the magical sword?

Let's see, level 7 has three forced darknut rooms and the four headed gleeok.  6 has the two headed gleeok.  9 has a forced wizrobe room, a blue lanmola room (rarely use sword, but sometimes is necessary), two patras, and Gannon.  Can optionally kill vires for heart/bomb drops if necessary, required bombs or silver arrow without magical sword.  Success rate is going to be lower with the white sword, but that's not necessarily a discerning factor.

Trebor

2012-01-30 10:35:35 am

Trebdor the Selbonator

I'm really surprised how close all these routes ended up being. Some of the numbers in the spreadsheet didn't work out for me, but as they were consistent across all the routes, it didn't change the end result. The one thing I did notice was my run had 16 screens listed when going to Level 9. No matter how I count it, I can't come up with 16. I get 14 at worst (that's counting the old level 6 screen twice, even though I enter the cave instantly), and 13 normally.

Also, how do you guys feel about getting the boomerang in Level 1? It only takes two extra screens of walking/killing to get and has the potential to save you tons of headache in the rest of the run (i.e. that lynel coming up the stairs after trying to walk to Level 9 from old Level 6). I got it in my run, but depending on your confidence in enemy spawn/movement patterns, your mileage may vary.

Darkwing Duck

2012-01-30 01:43:53 pm

Highly Evolved

Need a new post discussing solarflair's route options

Without MS:

2
ladder/PB (HC)
8
WS
4
Candle
5
1
(HC)
3
7
6
9

2, 8, and 4 do look bad for rupees. Might have to consider getting candle elsewhere than old 3. Can get 5 in 6, but that's 55 I'd have to get randomly. Ain't gonna happen. Need to find other candle shops.

K, same places as quest one. Candle one screen away. NE of old 8. Can get it there, maybe.

Wait, nope. Need arrows earlier than that, so need 100 secret earlier than that. Though with no MS, need only 140 to complete. Would both thirties near 3 be enough? Where to buy arrows? South of 2? No dice. Not near 3 by the time I'm past that area.

I really want to avoid that old 6 30 secret.

Solairflaire

2012-01-30 07:50:45 pm

Trebor: You're right, I accidentally added 2 to that spot. That would make yours 129 and 114.

I didn't make a distinction between half screen and full screen travel because I was trying to get what is essentially an average time spent on the overworld. That's probably where the differences are.

If you're willing to put up with the MMG, there is the one south of 6 that requires the flute. Though you'll probably only get one shot at it with the route and you'll probably need to get a 50 win there. Plus it's actually on the route. Otherwise, the only other way I could find to avoid that 30 secret would be to modify my MS route. That would end up at 117 screens, though.

Trebor

2012-01-30 08:38:36 pm

Trebdor the Selbonator

Yeah, I thought about that MMG. It's kind of a pain because it's right in the middle of four Lynels and you'll have only 4 hearts. I really like the idea of eliminating it altogether, provided it's not much slower than just using it.

Darkwing Duck

2012-01-30 09:33:03 pm

Highly Evolved

Quote from Trebor:

Yeah, I thought about that MMG. It's kind of a pain because it's right in the middle of four Lynels and you'll have only 4 hearts. I really like the idea of eliminating it altogether, provided it's not much slower than just using it.

I think MMG or nasty 30 secret is the only way to go, there, unfortunately, for 2, 8, 4 start. Leaning toward 30 secret, though, since I'll be looking to incorporate screen scroll glitching in optimal areas. This'll include skipping lost woods, bypassing MMG. Might also be able to get to 30 secret from graveyard, missing the lynel room the first time. Should change the spawns, hopefully in our favor.

Trebor

2012-01-30 09:36:10 pm

Trebdor the Selbonator

Speaking of which, how easy is it to pull off the screen scroll glitch on a console? I've tried it a few times with no luck, but I'm not sure a gamecube controller is the best to test with.

Darkwing Duck

2012-01-30 09:40:38 pm

Highly Evolved

Quote from Trebor:

Speaking of which, how easy is it to pull off the screen scroll glitch on a console? I've tried it a few times with no luck, but I'm not sure a gamecube controller is the best to test with.

Have to be on the perfect pixel and move a single frame. That's the trick. Fairly impossible doing it on the fly, but not undoable if you set it up.

Trebor

2012-01-30 09:43:15 pm

Trebdor the Selbonator

Quote from Darkwing Duck:

Quote from Trebor:

Speaking of which, how easy is it to pull off the screen scroll glitch on a console? I've tried it a few times with no luck, but I'm not sure a gamecube controller is the best to test with.

Have to be on the perfect pixel and move a single frame. That's the trick. Fairly impossible doing it on the fly, but not undoable if you set it up.

What's the proper way to set that up?

Darkwing Duck

2012-01-30 09:45:31 pm

Highly Evolved

Basically five pixels from screen transition, one frame of movement in either side direction (Link will turn around) and then freely move past the screen transition. Look on my Twitch account for my last stream and watch the last 20 minutes or so of it. I had some shenanigans with the glitch.

Darkwing Duck

Edit history:

Darkwing Duck: 2012-01-30 10:02:52 pm

2012-01-30 09:59:33 pm

Highly Evolved

What I'm finding is that if there's an opening on the right side of the screen, I can go left guaranteed. Doesn't work in any of the other other directions. I need an open space.

Trebor

2012-01-30 10:06:26 pm

Trebdor the Selbonator

I just watched the stream vid, and that's a good demonstration of how to do it. Even if it's tons harder than it looks, it's worth using for skipping the lost woods alone.

Darkwing Duck

2012-02-01 07:47:40 pm

Highly Evolved

Trying to think if scroll glitching across the river above 1 is a better option than lost woods.

Here's the thought:

Level 1
scroll glitch across river.
scroll glitch again to get to level 2.
level 2
whistle to 1.
scroll glitch across river again.
scroll glitch to arrow shop screen.
PB/Ladder/HC
Flute warp to 1
8
WS
4
Whistle to old 3
Candle
100 Secret
Arrow
Level 5

Probably have to whistle to old 1 at that point and do 3 and 7 and 6.

Alternatively:

Same as previous up to Flute to old 1, or as the previous run did, stair warp to top right.
Level 3
WS
4
8

Flute to old three for candle/arrow, 5, 7, 6.

Thoughts? Not sure on the overworld screens.

Solairflaire

2012-02-02 03:25:57 am

Looks solid at initial glance. Where do you expect to get money though? Can you do the glitch from left to right? If so, I'd think the second option would be slightly faster by glitching from the desert directly to 3.

What happens if you do the scroll glitch and go off the overworld map?

Trebor

2012-02-02 07:10:50 am

Trebdor the Selbonator

I've played around with the glitch quite a bit in the past couple of days, and from my experience, going around the left side to the right seems to run into problems. The few places I tried won't pass through the solid wall. It could just be where I was trying though.

As for scrolling when on the very left edge of the map: it wraps you back to the right side, but one row up, which makes a lot of sense if you think about it. The only screen where this could be of any use off the top of my head is wrapping from Level 6 around to the HC you need the raft to get. If you have the raft, you could raft out of the screen (picking up the HC if you desire) and head to level 3. I'm at work now, so I can't really play around with it.

Quote from Darkwing Duck:

Trying to think if scroll glitching across the river above 1 is a better option than lost woods.

Here's the thought:

Level 1
scroll glitch across river.
scroll glitch again to get to level 2.
level 2
whistle to 1.
scroll glitch across river again.
scroll glitch to arrow shop screen.
PB/Ladder/HC
Flute warp to 1
8
WS
4
Whistle to old 3
Candle
100 Secret
Arrow
Level 5

Probably have to whistle to old 1 at that point and do 3 and 7 and 6.

Alternatively:

Same as previous up to Flute to old 1, or as the previous run did, stair warp to top right.
Level 3
WS
4
8

Flute to old three for candle/arrow, 5, 7, 6.

Thoughts? Not sure on the overworld screens.

I really like the beginning there. It seems to eliminate a lot of walking and removes the outlier status from Level 1.

I've played around with the glitch quite a bit in the past couple of days, and from my experience, going around the left side to the right seems to run into problems.  The few places I tried won't pass through the solid wall.  It could just be where I was trying though.

As for scrolling when on the very left edge of the map:  it wraps you back to the right side, but one row up, which makes a lot of sense if you think about it.  The only screen where this could be of any use off the top of my head is wrapping from Level 6 around to the HC you need the raft to get.  If you have the raft, you could raft out of the screen (picking up the HC if you desire) and head to level 3.  I'm at work now, so I can't really play around with it.

[quote="Darkwing Duck"]Trying to think if scroll glitching across the river above 1 is a better option than lost woods.

Here's the thought:

Level 1
scroll glitch across river.
scroll glitch again to get to level 2.
level 2
whistle to 1.
scroll glitch across river again.
scroll glitch to arrow shop screen.
PB/Ladder/HC
Flute warp to 1
8
WS
4
Whistle to old 3
Candle
100 Secret
Arrow
Level 5

Probably have to whistle to old 1 at that point and do 3 and 7 and 6.

Alternatively:

Same as previous up to Flute to old 1, or as the previous run did, stair warp to top right.
Level 3
WS
4
8

Flute to old three for candle/arrow, 5, 7, 6.

Thoughts?  Not sure on the overworld screens.[/quote]

I really like the beginning there.  It seems to eliminate a lot of walking and removes the outlier status from Level 1.

Darkwing Duck

2012-02-02 02:22:43 pm

Highly Evolved

Quote from Trebor:

I've played around with the glitch quite a bit in the past couple of days, and from my experience, going around the left side to the right seems to run into problems. The few places I tried won't pass through the solid wall. It could just be where I was trying though.

As for scrolling when on the very left edge of the map: it wraps you back to the right side, but one row up, which makes a lot of sense if you think about it. The only screen where this could be of any use off the top of my head is wrapping from Level 6 around to the HC you need the raft to get. If you have the raft, you could raft out of the screen (picking up the HC if you desire) and head to level 3. I'm at work now, so I can't really play around with it.

Quote from Darkwing Duck:

Trying to think if scroll glitching across the river above 1 is a better option than lost woods.

Here's the thought:

Level 1
scroll glitch across river.
scroll glitch again to get to level 2.
level 2
whistle to 1.
scroll glitch across river again.
scroll glitch to arrow shop screen.
PB/Ladder/HC
Flute warp to 1
8
WS
4
Whistle to old 3
Candle
100 Secret
Arrow
Level 5

Probably have to whistle to old 1 at that point and do 3 and 7 and 6.

Alternatively:

Same as previous up to Flute to old 1, or as the previous run did, stair warp to top right.
Level 3
WS
4
8

Flute to old three for candle/arrow, 5, 7, 6.

Thoughts? Not sure on the overworld screens.

I really like the beginning there. It seems to eliminate a lot of walking and removes the outlier status from Level 1.

You should try it from the top left of the screen. You get a very interesting result.

And yes, Can only scroll glitch through solid wall moving left. You get stuck going right. Still works if there's empty space on the right side of the screen, of course. And glitching from the left side of the map to the right side never works since you can only have one column of solid wall to slide through, otherwise you get stuck and all you can do is screen transition. Every screen on the right hand side of the map has at least two columns of impassable sections on the right hand side of the screen.

[quote="Trebor"]I've played around with the glitch quite a bit in the past couple of days, and from my experience, going around the left side to the right seems to run into problems.  The few places I tried won't pass through the solid wall.  It could just be where I was trying though.

As for scrolling when on the very left edge of the map:  it wraps you back to the right side, but one row up, which makes a lot of sense if you think about it.  The only screen where this could be of any use off the top of my head is wrapping from Level 6 around to the HC you need the raft to get.  If you have the raft, you could raft out of the screen (picking up the HC if you desire) and head to level 3.  I'm at work now, so I can't really play around with it.

[quote="Darkwing Duck"]Trying to think if scroll glitching across the river above 1 is a better option than lost woods.

Here's the thought:

Level 1
scroll glitch across river.
scroll glitch again to get to level 2.
level 2
whistle to 1.
scroll glitch across river again.
scroll glitch to arrow shop screen.
PB/Ladder/HC
Flute warp to 1
8
WS
4
Whistle to old 3
Candle
100 Secret
Arrow
Level 5

Probably have to whistle to old 1 at that point and do 3 and 7 and 6.

Alternatively:

Same as previous up to Flute to old 1, or as the previous run did, stair warp to top right.
Level 3
WS
4
8

Flute to old three for candle/arrow, 5, 7, 6.

Thoughts?  Not sure on the overworld screens.[/quote]

I really like the beginning there.  It seems to eliminate a lot of walking and removes the outlier status from Level 1.[/quote]

You should try it from the top left of the screen.  You get a very interesting result.

And yes, Can only scroll glitch through solid wall moving left.  You get stuck going right.  Still works if there's empty space on the right side of the screen, of course.  And glitching from the left side of the map to the right side never works since you can only have one column of solid wall to slide through, otherwise you get stuck and all you can do is screen transition.  Every screen on the right hand side of the map has at least two columns of impassable sections on the right hand side of the screen.

Darkwing Duck

2012-02-03 03:55:45 am

Highly Evolved

Gawd, level 7 and 9 are so hard with this route. Sad

Trebor

Edit history:

Trebor: 2012-02-03 10:13:02 am

Trebor: 2012-02-03 10:12:31 am

2012-02-03 08:38:57 am

Trebdor the Selbonator

Quote from Darkwing Duck:

You should try it from the top left of the screen. You get a very interesting result.

That is very cool. Useless, but cool nonetheless.

Also, are you getting the MS in these latest attempts?

Quote from Darkwing Duck:

Level 1
scroll glitch across river.
scroll glitch again to get to level 2.
level 2
whistle to 1.
scroll glitch across river again.
scroll glitch to arrow shop screen.
PB/Ladder/HC
Flute warp to 1
8
WS
4
Whistle to old 3
Candle
100 Secret
Arrow
Level 5

Probably have to whistle to old 1 at that point and do 3 and 7 and 6.

Upon closer inspection of the bold part, I think walking to 6 while skipping the Lost Woods would be faster and safer. There is one less screen, and you only have to scroll glitch once as opposed to twice.