The Legend of Zelda--all categories

PJ

2012-02-21 02:35:04 pm

Is PJ

Congrats DW! You must have gotten this run right after I left your stream. :/ I regret sleeping now.

Darkwing Duck

2012-02-21 02:49:07 pm

Highly Evolved

Quote from PJ:

Congrats DW! You must have gotten this run right after I left your stream. :/ I regret sleeping now.

Yep. Was the last attempt I was going to do, too.

Heidrage

Edit history:

Heidrage: 2012-02-21 05:27:03 pm

2012-02-21 05:26:42 pm

Willing to teach you the impossible

Yoink
<3 DW!!

sinister1

2012-02-21 06:42:44 pm

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

Why did I go to sleep?!?! fcuk

Awesome work DW, I expect nothing less from you when it comes to this game.

puwexil

Edit history:

puwexil: 2012-02-21 08:14:58 pm

2012-02-21 08:13:52 pm

Professional Second Banana

Quote from PJ:

Congrats DW! You must have gotten this run right after I left your stream. :/ I regret sleeping now.

So PJ is to DW as DW is to feasel (bad luck on attempts) - got it! Wink

snorlax

2012-02-21 08:59:38 pm

zzzzzzzzzz

Very nice work. I'm also disappointed that I didn't get to watch this live, but I had to get some sleep after staying up all night to watch the first Ganonless OoT run the night before. I just watched the video from Heidrage's post, and it was great. Good bomb and rupee luck and nice fighting and glitching throughout really added up. I also just watched your 34:36, and the gameplay was probably even better there (besides the Ganon fight), but I think you should redo with the screen and block glitches considering how good you've gotten at them.

Darkwing Duck

2012-02-22 12:24:20 am

Highly Evolved

I plan on replaying this run 2/22 (today/tomorrow) at around 9 PM MST.

Uilnslcoap

2012-02-22 02:06:34 pm

F*ckin' sanity effects...

Even has "down to a half heart" bit of suspense. Great job!

Darkwing Duck

2012-02-23 03:54:51 pm

Highly Evolved

Speculative First Quest Up+A route

Gathering thoughts for up+a first quest. Interestingly, this route does not get the white sword.

All runs start at level 3, but I'll come back there in a bit. Level 3 has some complexity that needs to be addressed.

After 3, yes, a trip to the money making game is required for this route, so that will happen after level 3, so 10 rupees are needed in that dungeon, adding to the complexity.

After that, though, it's a pretty simple route, since very few rupees are needed. Only 40 to drop minus however many you get in level 4.

So, after 3 and the MMG:

Candle
Level 4
Walk to 1, getting HC on the way.
Level 1 (Up+A after bow)
Up+A
Walk to HC on south coast
100 secret
Level 2
HC north of 2
screen scroll to level 5
Level 5 (Up+A at whistle)
Whistle to 3
Arrow/meat
Level 7
MS
Level 6
Whistle to 2
Level 8
Whistle to 1
Level 9

End is really the same as the no up+a route, and I see only five uses of up+a. However, those five should save a significant amount of time.

Some other elements:

Wooden sword in level 5 puts the onus on good bomb use in the required darknut room. Also may be quicker to kill digdogger with a second bomb even with going into the menu. I think it's four hits after a bomb hit with the wooden sword.

Leads to problem number 2, going to 7 after 5. Need seven bombs to clear 7, and six bombs to reach dodongos for a possible bomb drop. Have to use bombs in 5, so having a full set of bombs going into 7 seems unlikely. Will have to force a bomb drop, or get a random one somewhere.

Aside from that, and doing level 2 with the wooden sword, there isn't much change, other than adding screen scroll glitches.

Now, to level 3. First. scroll glitch straight to 3, or get bomb drop from octorock? If straight into three, where do I try to get first bomb? Also, need 10 rupees, so essentially 2 fives. One would come from zols, for sure. Hard to get two? Maybe not. Here's my plan.

Scroll straight to 3. Kill darknut in first darknut room (same as TAS), get bomb. Kill two keese in next room (gets to three in both counters). Kill all darknuts, get bomb drop (will one be enough, or do I need both?). Eclipse 10 consecutive kills on keese in key room/treasure room, preferably get to 12, but not higher. Up+A. Kill minimum two zols with a bomb. Get forced five rupee (10th consecutive with sword) and random five rupee (4 on kill counter). Kill manhandla.

Hopefully the two remaining darknuts in the bomb drop room do not need to be killed for that bomb. Hopefully, you'd have enough for manhandla.

[b][size="16"]Speculative First Quest Up+A route[/size][/b]

Gathering thoughts for up+a first quest.  Interestingly, this route does not get the white sword.

All runs start at level 3, but I'll come back there in a bit.  Level 3 has some complexity that needs to be addressed.

After 3, yes, a trip to the money making game is required for this route, so that will happen after level 3, so 10 rupees are needed in that dungeon, adding to the complexity.

After that, though, it's a pretty simple route, since very few rupees are needed.  Only 40 to drop minus however many you get in level 4.

So, after 3 and the MMG:

Candle
Level 4
Walk to 1, getting HC on the way.
Level 1 (Up+A after bow)
Up+A
Walk to HC on south coast
100 secret
Level 2
HC north of 2
screen scroll to level 5
Level 5 (Up+A at whistle)
Whistle to 3
Arrow/meat
Level 7
MS
Level 6
Whistle to 2
Level 8
Whistle to 1
Level 9

End is really the same as the no up+a route, and I see only five uses of up+a.  However, those five should save a significant amount of time.

Some other elements:

Wooden sword in level 5 puts the onus on good bomb use in the required darknut room.  Also may be quicker to kill digdogger with a second bomb even with going into the menu.  I think it's four hits after a bomb hit with the wooden sword.

Leads to problem number 2, going to 7 after 5.  Need seven bombs to clear 7, and six bombs to reach dodongos for a possible bomb drop.  Have to use bombs in 5, so having a full set of bombs going into 7 seems unlikely.  Will have to force a bomb drop, or get a random one somewhere.

Aside from that, and doing level 2 with the wooden sword, there isn't much change, other than adding screen scroll glitches.

Now, to level 3.  First.  scroll glitch straight to 3, or get bomb drop from octorock?  If straight into three, where do I try to get first bomb?  Also, need 10 rupees, so essentially 2 fives.  One would come from zols, for sure.  Hard to get two?  Maybe not.  Here's my plan.

Scroll straight to 3.  Kill darknut in first darknut room (same as TAS), get bomb.  Kill two keese in next room (gets to three in both counters).  Kill all darknuts, get bomb drop (will one be enough, or do I need both?).  Eclipse 10 consecutive kills on keese in key room/treasure room, preferably get to 12, but not higher.  Up+A.  Kill minimum two zols with a bomb.  Get forced five rupee (10th consecutive with sword) and random five rupee (4 on kill counter).  Kill manhandla.

Hopefully the two remaining darknuts in the bomb drop room do not need to be killed for that bomb.  Hopefully, you'd have enough for manhandla.

Darkwing Duck

Edit history:

Darkwing Duck: 2012-02-23 05:08:08 pm

2012-02-23 05:07:17 pm

Highly Evolved

Just tested the route. It's doable.

Might need both bombs from the darknut room, however. That just adds to the insanity that culminates with the MMG. Made it twice to the MMG while route testing and got +50 up the middle both times.

So to sum up the insanity. Three random bomb drops, a five rupee drop, cooperative darknuts, cooperative manhandla, and money making game. All in the first 2 and a half minutes, hopefully.

Edit: Oh, and I can farm dodongos in level 5 for bombs, if necessary. No big deal at all.

Trebor

2012-02-23 06:05:18 pm

Trebdor the Selbonator

Wow. You're not kidding, that is an insane first two and a half minutes.

Darkwing Duck

2012-06-01 06:04:52 pm

Highly Evolved

Well. Now that the marathon is over, and my 34:36 made it up on site, might as well try to improve the no up A route with the screen scroll.

http://www.twitch.tv/darkwing_duck_sda/b/320062538

Need to shave off a half minute and it'll be good to go. 3 hours of serious attempts and I was one level 8 away from possibly getting a submittable run.

Milligramcracker

2012-06-01 07:57:42 pm

Micromanager extraordinaire

I just remembered how much you got trolled by first quest Ganon at the marathon. You have every incentive to get him back even faster now! I'm rooting for you Darkwing.

Darkwing Duck

2012-06-04 10:52:10 pm

Highly Evolved

Well, I'm going out of town for awhile, so I figured I might as well get a submittable run for Zelda before I go. Roll Eyes

http://www.twitch.tv/darkwing_duck_sda/b/320409463

holydiver42

2012-06-05 02:21:31 pm

Everybody DANCE!

I caught the beginning of this attempt. I can't remember why I left. Wish I hadn't. Great job!

jamenlang

2012-06-06 12:06:33 pm

Quote from Darkwing Duck:

Well, I'm going out of town for awhile, so I figured I might as well get a submittable run for Zelda before I go. Roll Eyes

http://www.twitch.tv/darkwing_duck_sda/b/320409463

how did you do the screen scroll trick, and can you do it anywhere overworld dungeons etc?

Darkwing Duck

2012-06-16 01:04:15 am

Highly Evolved

Quote from jamenlang:

Quote from Darkwing Duck:

Well, I'm going out of town for awhile, so I figured I might as well get a submittable run for Zelda before I go. Roll Eyes

http://www.twitch.tv/darkwing_duck_sda/b/320409463

how did you do the screen scroll trick, and can you do it anywhere overworld dungeons etc?

You can go through a half step of virtually any wall (screen transition trigger counts as a wall). To do it, you need to be at 7 (or 5, memory is foggy) pixels away from the wall you're going through. Face wall, push one frame of movement in a side direction. Link will turn around but not move. You can then go through the wall.

On a different note. I have a better time. Yay!!

http://www.twitch.tv/darkwing_duck_sda/b/321609050

DK28

Edit history:

DK28: 2012-06-17 12:29:20 pm

2012-06-16 10:10:25 am

General Kong - Bullets and Bananas

Quote from Darkwing Duck:

On a different note. I have a better time. Yay!!

http://www.twitch.tv/darkwing_duck_sda/b/321609050

<3

Work day just got 10,000% better...

Edit: Another great improvement, it keeps getting better. Confound it Darkwing, why are you so sexy?

Darkwing Duck

2012-07-23 01:14:10 pm

Highly Evolved

All right, haven't posted in here in awhile, but I have much better times on both quests.

Part 1 First Quest 32:04
http://www.twitch.tv/darkwing_duck_sda/b/324526842

Part 2
http://www.twitch.tv/darkwing_duck_sda/b/324526980

And the 2nd quest 37:11
http://www.twitch.tv/darkwing_duck_sda/b/325974190

Good chance I submit both of these.

presjpolk

Edit history:

presjpolk: 2012-12-19 11:48:37 pm

2012-12-19 07:39:06 pm

HELLO!

I'm disappointed this was never bumped for low%. Smiley

Anyway, serious question: how are we defining 100% Obviously you have to get all the permanent items that aren't superseded by other items:

All 13 Heart Containers
Bow
Magic Boomerang (supersedes wooden Boomerang)
Raft
Ladder
Recorder
Rod
Red Candle (supersedes Blue Candle)
Magical Key
Book
Red Ring (supersedes Blue Ring)
Silver Arrows (supersedes Arrows)
Letter
Magic Sword (supersedes Wooden Sword and White Sword)
Bracelet (because I'm an idiot and forgot to list it Smiley

)

I'm inclined to think you don't have to get the consumables:

Blue Potion
Red Potion
Keys
Bait
Magic Shield

I think a good case can be made that you need to buy both bomb upgrades, but that seems to be up in the air. For now I've routed them in, in part because it's just not a big deal to get them when there are 100 rupee secrets near the dungeons where you buy them.

How about Maps and Compasses? Seems silly to bother with those to me, but does anyone think we need them?

I'm disappointed this was never bumped for low%. :)

Anyway, serious question: how are we defining 100% Obviously you have to get all the permanent items that aren't superseded by other items:

All 13 Heart Containers
Bow
Magic Boomerang (supersedes wooden Boomerang)
Raft
Ladder
Recorder
Rod
Red Candle (supersedes Blue Candle)
Magical Key
Book
Red Ring (supersedes Blue Ring)
Silver Arrows (supersedes Arrows)
Letter
Magic Sword (supersedes Wooden Sword and White Sword)
Bracelet (because I'm an idiot and forgot to list it :) )

I'm inclined to think you don't have to get the consumables:

Blue Potion
Red Potion
Keys
Bait
Magic Shield

I think a good case can be made that you need to buy both bomb upgrades, but that seems to be up in the air.  For now I've routed them in, in part because it's just not a big deal to get them when there are 100 rupee secrets near the dungeons where you buy them.

How about Maps and Compasses?  Seems silly to bother with those to me, but does anyone think we need them?

Darkwing Duck

2012-12-19 11:44:11 pm

Highly Evolved

Edit in the Bracelet.

Bomb upgrades are a power up, so I don't see why they wouldn't be included.

No point in putting consumables in the category, especially ones you can buy like bombs, keys, and potions.

Magic shield is consumable since you can lose it. I don't care either way whether it should be included.

Blue candle will probably make the run faster, since you can only get one 100 secret without a candle, and that'll go toward level 5 bomb upgrade.

Bait is consumable, but it's required to pass in both quests 100% I believe. First for sure since it's needed in first quest any%. Don't think you'd have to have it at the end of the game.

presjpolk

2012-12-19 11:52:41 pm

HELLO!

Edited my list. Smiley

Anyway yeah, some of the things that shouldn't be technically required are practically required right now. Arrows are needed unless some sort of Gohma skip is found. Bait is needed unless a Hungry Moblin skip is found. The blue candle likely saves time.

When I think about how other games work, I can't see the bomb upgrades not being required. It's no different from missiles in Metroid.

No opinion on compass and map? I only thought about them when I was making the above post. Smiley

presjpolk

2012-12-20 04:11:04 am

HELLO!

Thought before I head to the office: Does anyone know whether Super Metroid people get every map console when they do 100%?

Solairflaire

2012-12-20 04:45:36 am

Quote from presjpolk:

Thought before I head to the office: Does anyone know whether Super Metroid people get every map console when they do 100%?

Super Metroid uses the in game definition. It only tracks item collection. A better comparison would be other Zelda games, like A Link to the Past. The map and compass are not collected in that game for 100%, nor any other zelda game if I remember correctly. I think the only exception is Majora's Mask because it's defined as all permanent things that don't disappear after a time warp.

I agree with DW on all his points.

The only question I have is about the 2nd quest. There are the rooms that make you pay money or a Heart Container. Could you pay a Heart Container and still qualify for 100% as long as you get all of them? Or, is the requirement going to be 16 Hearts at the end of the game?

presjpolk

Edit history:

presjpolk: 2012-12-20 01:59:58 pm

presjpolk: 2012-12-20 01:59:33 pm

2012-12-20 01:58:32 pm

HELLO!

I think you have to pay the money.

Reason: I also think you have to take the heart instead of the potion from 'take any one you want.' If I could take a red potion instead of a heart that'd be a decent savings for me, presently.

I'd also use DWD's low% as precedent, and do the opposite. Smiley

He avoided hearts even at great difficulty, in the case of that one Aquamentus.