The Legend of Zelda--all categories

2012-02-09 11:16:32 pm

Highly Evolved

Quote from Solairflaire:

You could do PB and then 2 then go get the ladder, nothing is stopping that from being an option. Not sure if it would actually save time or not.

In 5, that room just sucks. Everything else is what I thought too.

I keep thinking beating 2 opens the warp to old 7 for some reason, not sure why. It would probably be faster to scroll glitch across the river south of 5 and then scroll glitch again to bypass the lost woods on the way to 6.

I did analysis on the routes, they all come within 3 or fewer screens of each other (before the warp to old 7 thing). So, there really isn't any time savings by getting the ladder later. It was just a "what if?" thought that I figured produced an interesting result.

Which goes back to what I mentioned earlier and how maddening it really is. So many options that are being thought of. No major change in overworld time. Annoying as hell.

Solairflaire

2012-02-09 11:30:12 pm

All the routes are really efficient, so there probably won't be much saved on the overworld anymore. The most hidden factor is enemy spawns in dungeons. If you change routes, you change how enemies spawn, which can produce better or worse results. It's probably at the point of pick a route you like and just go with it.

Trebor

2012-02-13 07:28:01 pm

Trebdor the Selbonator

I have been busy as holy hell the past several days. Haven't had time to do anything. I have had some time at work to watch a few of your recent streams, DW, and I gotta say, you really make it look easy. I know you've beaten the run up on the site, probably numerous times. How low do you think the lower bound is? Seems to me sub-40 is a good mark to shoot for.

Darkwing Duck

2012-02-13 07:43:25 pm

Highly Evolved

Quote from Trebor:

I have been busy as holy hell the past several days. Haven't had time to do anything. I have had some time at work to watch a few of your recent streams, DW, and I gotta say, you really make it look easy. I know you've beaten the run up on the site, probably numerous times. How low do you think the lower bound is? Seems to me sub-40 is a good mark to shoot for.

I die too much in level 9 to beat the site time numerous times.

Or I die in 7 if I'm trying no MS.

I think sub 40 is pushing it, unless something comes about that changes things. I did get a 43:07 with one death in 5 that was about 40 seconds or so lost. That's the marathon route I'm planning for. Not sure how much the other routes we've been discussing changes the time. So far, amazingly enough, no other route seems to be inherently faster, even with the longer walks from 2 to 1 and then to 3.

I'm definitely not close to coming up with a goal time yet.

Trebor

2012-02-13 09:11:21 pm

Trebdor the Selbonator

Quote from Darkwing Duck:

Quote from Trebor:

I have been busy as holy hell the past several days. Haven't had time to do anything. I have had some time at work to watch a few of your recent streams, DW, and I gotta say, you really make it look easy. I know you've beaten the run up on the site, probably numerous times. How low do you think the lower bound is? Seems to me sub-40 is a good mark to shoot for.

I die too much in level 9 to beat the site time numerous times.

Or I die in 7 if I'm trying no MS.

I think sub 40 is pushing it, unless something comes about that changes things. I did get a 43:07 with one death in 5 that was about 40 seconds or so lost. That's the marathon route I'm planning for. Not sure how much the other routes we've been discussing changes the time. So far, amazingly enough, no other route seems to be inherently faster, even with the longer walks from 2 to 1 and then to 3.

I'm definitely not close to coming up with a goal time yet.

That's kinda funny because the run I saw that you actually finished was that 43:07 with the death. Aside from the death it was solid. So solid I just assumed you had completed it more. I do remember watching a run where you had a decent time (I didn't catch how much it was because it was the second part of the both quests marathon) but got stuck in a wall going to Level 9.

[quote="Darkwing Duck"][quote="Trebor"]I have been busy as holy hell the past several days.  Haven't had time to do anything.  I have had some time at work to watch a few of your recent streams, DW, and I gotta say, you really make it look easy.  I know you've beaten the run up on the site, probably numerous times.  How low do you think the lower bound is?  Seems to me sub-40 is a good mark to shoot for.[/quote]

I die too much in level 9 to beat the site time numerous times.

Or I die in 7 if I'm trying no MS.

I think sub 40 is pushing it, unless something comes about that changes things.  I did get a 43:07 with one death in 5 that was about 40 seconds or so lost.  That's the marathon route I'm planning for.  Not sure how much the other routes we've been discussing changes the time.  So far, amazingly enough, no other route seems to be inherently faster, even with the longer walks from 2 to 1 and then to 3.

I'm definitely not close to coming up with a goal time yet.[/quote]

That's kinda funny because the run I saw that you actually finished was that 43:07 with the death.  Aside from the death it was solid.  So solid I just assumed you had completed it more.  I do remember watching a run where you had a decent time (I didn't catch how much it was because it was the second part of the both quests marathon) but got stuck in a wall going to Level 9.

Darkwing Duck

Edit history:

Darkwing Duck: 2012-02-13 09:15:54 pm

2012-02-13 09:15:02 pm

Highly Evolved

Quote from Trebor:

Quote from Darkwing Duck:

Quote from Trebor:

I have been busy as holy hell the past several days. Haven't had time to do anything. I have had some time at work to watch a few of your recent streams, DW, and I gotta say, you really make it look easy. I know you've beaten the run up on the site, probably numerous times. How low do you think the lower bound is? Seems to me sub-40 is a good mark to shoot for.

I die too much in level 9 to beat the site time numerous times.

And my favorite part of the second quest is when I get the quick kills in the wizrobe room in level 5.

Or I die in 7 if I'm trying no MS.

I think sub 40 is pushing it, unless something comes about that changes things. I did get a 43:07 with one death in 5 that was about 40 seconds or so lost. That's the marathon route I'm planning for. Not sure how much the other routes we've been discussing changes the time. So far, amazingly enough, no other route seems to be inherently faster, even with the longer walks from 2 to 1 and then to 3.

I'm definitely not close to coming up with a goal time yet.

That's kinda funny because the run I saw that you actually finished was that 43:07 with the death. Aside from the death it was solid. So solid I just assumed you had completed it more. I do remember watching a run where you had a decent time (I didn't catch how much it was because it was the second part of the both quests marathon) but got stuck in a wall going to Level 9.

Oh yeah, that run. It was a learning experience clipping into the wall.

My split times up to those points, though, were fairly consistent, so while I don't finish runs often, the play level is for the most part the same.

[quote="Trebor"][quote="Darkwing Duck"][quote="Trebor"]I have been busy as holy hell the past several days.  Haven't had time to do anything.  I have had some time at work to watch a few of your recent streams, DW, and I gotta say, you really make it look easy.  I know you've beaten the run up on the site, probably numerous times.  How low do you think the lower bound is?  Seems to me sub-40 is a good mark to shoot for.[/quote]

I die too much in level 9 to beat the site time numerous times.

And my favorite part of the second quest is when I get the quick kills in the wizrobe room in level 5.

Or I die in 7 if I'm trying no MS.

I think sub 40 is pushing it, unless something comes about that changes things.  I did get a 43:07 with one death in 5 that was about 40 seconds or so lost.  That's the marathon route I'm planning for.  Not sure how much the other routes we've been discussing changes the time.  So far, amazingly enough, no other route seems to be inherently faster, even with the longer walks from 2 to 1 and then to 3.

I'm definitely not close to coming up with a goal time yet.[/quote]

That's kinda funny because the run I saw that you actually finished was that 43:07 with the death.  Aside from the death it was solid.  So solid I just assumed you had completed it more.  I do remember watching a run where you had a decent time (I didn't catch how much it was because it was the second part of the both quests marathon) but got stuck in a wall going to Level 9.[/quote]

Oh yeah, that run.  It was a learning experience clipping into the wall.

My split times up to those points, though, were fairly consistent, so while I don't finish runs often, the play level is for the most part the same.

Darkwing Duck

Edit history:

Darkwing Duck: 2012-02-15 03:25:46 am

2012-02-15 03:19:40 am

Highly Evolved

I'm liking the PB between 1 and 2 and getting the magical sword at the moment.

Enough rupees are obtainable without too much worry, which is perfect. Usually use the vast majority of my rupees to buy the candle, so I don't have an excess.

Much more pleased with this route. Best time for this route (first completion, haven't matched it yet) is 42:3x I believe. Got another run that was 42:40, and was over a minute behind at one point. I would think sub 41 is an initial goal time. Not sure how lower to get after that. Still playing around with bomb usage.

Trebor

Edit history:

Trebor: 2012-02-15 07:03:19 am

Trebor: 2012-02-15 07:02:54 am

2012-02-15 07:00:04 am

Trebdor the Selbonator

Sub-41 sounds reasonable. I think the difference between a good run and a great run is going to boil down to bomb usage and getting timely refills. This would be even more necessary in a no MS run. However, like you, I also like getting the Magical Sword. I think my current plan is to get as good a time as I can while collecting the Magical Sword, then start working on a no MS run.

I also like getting the PB between 1 and 2. It's just a really convenient time to pick it up. The only thing I noticed bad about it are the Leevers on the Level 2 overworld screen. If you get all the screen scrolls correct first try, picking up the PB early puts them in horrible position for getting into Level 2 unscathed. It's not enough of a problem to make me save the PB for later, just a minor annoyance.

My goal is to watch your most recent stream today at work if I get some down time. I want to see the 42:xx. Even if it's not in there, I still like watching you play. ...That didn't sound nearly as creepy in my head, I swear.

Sub-41 sounds reasonable.  I think the difference between a good run and a great run is going to boil down to bomb usage and getting timely refills.  This would be even more necessary in a no MS run.  However, like you, I also like getting the Magical Sword.  I think my current plan is to get as good a time as I can while collecting the Magical Sword, then start working on a no MS run.

I also like getting the PB between 1 and 2.  It's just a really convenient time to pick it up.  The only thing I noticed bad about it are the Leevers on the Level 2 overworld screen.  If you get all the screen scrolls correct first try, picking up the PB early puts them in horrible position for getting into Level 2 unscathed.  It's not enough of a problem to make me save the PB for later, just a minor annoyance.

My goal is to watch your most recent stream today at work if I get some down time.  I want to see the 42:xx.  Even if it's not in there, I still like watching you play.  ...That didn't sound nearly as creepy in my head, I swear.

Darkwing Duck

2012-02-16 03:23:37 am

Highly Evolved

Well. Got a run I felt was decent but still had room for improvement. Got a time of 41:36. Not the best level 4, but everything else was fairly solid.

Afterward, I did my marathon run (both quests back to back) and got a time of 1:18:19. 35:27 on the first quest +:45 between quests which leaves about a 42:06 second quest.

Trebor

2012-02-16 06:30:27 am

Trebdor the Selbonator

Congrats man. Did you submit it?

Also, that is a very solid double quest marathon run.

As for myself, I've had some solid runs, but they've all been cut short by deaths. I think I'm just taking too many unnecessary chances. Of course, with a 41:36, maybe now I have to.

Darkwing Duck

2012-02-16 02:32:39 pm

Highly Evolved

Not to the recording phase, yet.

Second quest has more nuances that affect time. One of the bigger ones is Gohma. Ideally, for all three of them you have to kill, you do it in one round. Unfortunately, I don't think it's possible if the Gohma moves right. Left and down are the two that are possible, easier if it moves down. Also more difficult when there are fireball statues. The knockback is enough to keep a one round kill from happening. Bubbles are another factor. Nothing but wasted time. They're less of a factor in the first quest. Three manhandlas to kill. Need good luck on all three sets of dodongos. Hopefully each time you get a double kill (can't even hope for a triple kill, really). Of course, have to be good on the screen scroll glitch. Level 7 is level 7. Can't be too far down in health early on. Lose time avoiding damage when you're low on health.

There's more stuff to slow you down, so I'll have to accept more time losses I think. I think 1:50 is max time on level 1. Hopefully, somewhere south of 6:00 is the acceptable time for level 2. I really don't want to have to rely on a double bomb drop off the Goriyas in 1.

Not to the recording phase, yet.

Second quest has more nuances that affect time.  One of the bigger ones is Gohma.  Ideally, for all three of them you have to kill, you do it in one round.  Unfortunately, I don't think it's possible if the Gohma moves right.  Left and down are the two that are possible, easier if it moves down.  Also more difficult when there are fireball statues.  The knockback is enough to keep a one round kill from happening.  Bubbles are another factor.  Nothing but wasted time.  They're less of a factor in the first quest.  Three manhandlas to kill.  Need good luck on all three sets of dodongos.  Hopefully each time you get a double kill (can't even hope for a triple kill, really).  Of course, have to be good on the screen scroll glitch.  Level 7 is level 7.  Can't be too far down in health early on.  Lose time avoiding damage when you're low on health.

There's more stuff to slow you down, so I'll have to accept more time losses I think.  I think 1:50 is max time on level 1.  Hopefully, somewhere south of 6:00 is the acceptable time for level 2.  I really don't want to have to rely on a double bomb drop off the Goriyas in 1.

Trebor

2012-02-16 03:04:01 pm

Trebdor the Selbonator

I watched the 41:36 today at work and also listened to the commentary afterwards. You have a pretty good handle on where the most time is saved / lost at this point, so I doubt I could give you advice you aren't already aware of. For me, the bubbles may even be higher on the list than Gohma. They always seem to have the habit of going straight for me and moving to block my escape route. Then, when they finally hit you, they all bail and you have to chase them around the damn room. It's such a pain in the ass, most people have no idea. Darknuts get a lot of attention, but I would rank them pretty low; at least they are fairly predictable, even if they are brutal and relentless.

Luck just keeps popping up its ugly head in this game, I swear.

Solairflaire

2012-02-16 06:36:21 pm

As a random thought for the marathon route, you could get a potion at the desert HC spot and delay getting the MS till after 6 then go to 7. This might also help with red bubbles in a normal run, but it's slower.

Darkwing Duck

2012-02-16 09:07:14 pm

Highly Evolved

Quote from Solairflaire:

As a random thought for the marathon route, you could get a potion at the desert HC spot and delay getting the MS till after 6 then go to 7. This might also help with red bubbles in a normal run, but it's slower.

I plan on potionless incentives being reached and doing both quests without a potion. But that probably is the best method of getting the potion.

Darkwing Duck

2012-02-18 01:13:00 am

Highly Evolved

Well...the bad news.

I guess I'm going to have to hook up the DVD recorder and suffer through endless resets.

The good news. Sub 40:00 is attainable.

I was -1:37 at two of my splits of my 41:36.

Died at Gannon at 40:17.

Trebor

2012-02-18 01:19:26 am

Trebdor the Selbonator

Awesome, sub-40 is possible. I totally called it.

Also, I was watching your stream when it tragically ended in Level 5 way ahead of your 41:36. That was pretty solid stuff. I would've watched it all and worked on my own runs, but my sister-in-law decided to have her baby tonight. No way in the world I was missing that.

And now I'm going to bed. Being up since 6 am and having to eat hospital food is just no fun at all.

Keep up the good work!

scaryice

2012-02-18 05:18:22 am

Quote from Darkwing Duck:

Have to kill darknuts and Pol's voices without arrows in 4, so WS is needed there, as well.

So I'm guessing it would save time to use the original Famicom Disk System version and kill the Pols Voice with the microphone?

Darkwing Duck

2012-02-18 12:55:22 pm

Highly Evolved

Quote from scaryice:

Quote from Darkwing Duck:

Have to kill darknuts and Pol's voices without arrows in 4, so WS is needed there, as well.

So I'm guessing it would save time to use the original Famicom Disk System version and kill the Pols Voice with the microphone?

Heh.

Only two pol's voice I have to kill.

scaryice

2012-02-19 07:02:46 pm

You only have to kill two with the sword in the run? How many more with arrows? How much time do you think the microphone would save in an entire run?

Darkwing Duck

2012-02-19 07:16:11 pm

Highly Evolved

Quote from scaryice:

You only have to kill two with the sword in the run? How many more with arrows? How much time do you think the microphone would save in an entire run?

In the second quest, I have to kill two pol's voice period.

Trebor

2012-02-19 07:53:59 pm

Trebdor the Selbonator

Quote from Darkwing Duck:

Quote from scaryice:

You only have to kill two with the sword in the run? How many more with arrows? How much time do you think the microphone would save in an entire run?

In the second quest, I have to kill two pol's voice period.

Yeah, just the two guarding the raft at the end of the Level. The amount of time you would save there is completely negligible if you ask me.

Darkwing Duck

2012-02-20 06:50:25 pm

Highly Evolved

Got a 40:26 just now.

I felt it was a very "meh" run through the first 6 splits. Had a decent enough final three.

Question now isn't sub-40. It's how much under sub-40.

Trebor

2012-02-20 06:54:52 pm

Trebdor the Selbonator

Yeah, I saw that. Those first 6 splits were rather off. I was surprised you didn't reset. Sub-39 may even be possible under ideal circumstances.

Darkwing Duck

2012-02-21 03:49:54 am

Highly Evolved

Well. I have a completion time after two days of recording of 39:19.

Level 4 wasn't good, and the Gohma in level 6 was bad, but everything else was pretty good. Probably will end up submitting this.

Trebor

2012-02-21 08:55:39 am

Trebdor the Selbonator

Quote from Darkwing Duck:

Well. I have a completion time after two days of recording of 39:19.

Level 4 wasn't good, and the Gohma in level 6 was bad, but everything else was pretty good. Probably will end up submitting this.

Very nice time. Seems like sub-39 is possible. I haven't watched this one, but I'm sure you make it look super easy. Are you going to keep playing or move on to another game?

As of right now, I plan to keep trying. Once I see your run I may change my mind though; you're scary good at this game. So again, congrats on a great time, DW.