[SNES] The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past

2014-01-15 12:19:14 pm

Hello guys !

ALTTP is my greatest childhood game, and I really want to run it. Consequently, I watch as many runs as possible, and most recently, the beatiful race during the AGDQ of this year. I didn't watched it completely yet, because the two speed-runners have used a technique I didn't know before, they call it the Super Speed. Then I put the stream on pause immediately, and I began to search about this "Super Speed" thing, but I couldn't find anything about it, even here, in these forums.

So I came here, to ask you directly on this forum : How do we perform Super Speed in A Link to the Past ? From what I saw, we have to go on a ladder, make some actions, go out from it and Link walks quicker than usually. Maybe (and surely) they explain it in the video, but I'm French and I did not manage to understand what they say, I just heard "Super Speed" and other things, but not the whole explication (also, I apologize if my English is not perfect :-P).

Thank you guys for answering my questions ! :-)

Hello guys !

ALTTP is my greatest childhood game, and I really want to run it. Consequently, I watch as many runs as possible, and most recently, the beatiful race during the AGDQ of this year. I didn't watched it completely yet, because the two speed-runners have used a technique I didn't know before, they call it the Super Speed. Then I put the stream on pause immediately, and I began to search about this "Super Speed" thing, but I couldn't find anything about it, even here, in these forums.

So I came here, to ask you directly on this forum : How do we perform Super Speed in A Link to the Past ? From what I saw, we have to go on a ladder, make some actions, go out from it and Link walks quicker than usually. Maybe (and surely) they explain it in the video, but I'm French and I did not manage to understand what they say, I just heard "Super Speed" and other things, but not the whole explication (also, I apologize if my English is not perfect :-P).

Thank you guys for answering my questions ! :-)

PrinnyTonic

2014-01-15 01:46:38 pm

German to the Past

Hey.

I also started to run ALTTP a few weeks ago. That trick os quize easy. First thing: This only works in japanese 1.0 version.
The base for this trick is the item dash. This trick requires ypu to press dash and item on the same time in order to run with the item in hand.

When you are walking up a ladder equip the hookshot and itemdash. When you exit the ladder you'll move with super speed.

Linkorange

Edit history:

Linkorange: 2014-01-15 03:25:05 pm

2014-01-15 03:24:23 pm

Thanks a lot :-). Indeed, this trick doesn't seem very difficult. However, if you watch the video here (at 11:27:30 approximately), you'll see they do the Super Speed just after the Eastern Temple, far before obtaining the Hookshot. By chance, I finally managed to understand what they said at that moment ! The Super Speed can be performed without the Hookshot indeed - apparently, that was discovered recently - and to perform this, you must :

1- Hold B in order to do a spin attack
2- Press the dash button (A) one frame after releasing the button B (during the spin attack)
At this step, Link is in a weird state
3- Hit a ladder

When Link goes out from the ladder in this special state, he will walk in Super Speed.

I tried this on my emulator and it worked perfectly (though it needs some practising in order to do it quickly ^^). However, I think using the Hookshot is faster if it is already equipped on the Y button : the charge of the spin attack is longer than just pressing the Y button.

Thanks a lot :-). Indeed, this trick doesn't seem very difficult. However, if you watch the video [url=http://www.twitch.tv/speeddemosarchivesda/b/493407760]here[/url] (at 11:27:30 approximately), you'll see they do the Super Speed just after the Eastern Temple, far before obtaining the Hookshot. By chance, I finally managed to understand what they said at that moment ! The Super Speed can be performed without the Hookshot indeed - apparently, that was discovered recently - and to perform this, you must :

1- Hold B in order to do a spin attack
2- Press the dash button (A) one frame after releasing the button B (during the spin attack)
At this step, Link is in a weird state
3- Hit a ladder

When Link goes out from the ladder in this special state, he will walk in Super Speed.

I tried this on my emulator and it worked perfectly (though it needs some practising in order to do it quickly ^^). However, I think using the Hookshot is faster if it is already equipped on the Y button : the charge of the spin attack is longer than just pressing the Y button.

sinister1

2014-01-15 09:28:51 pm

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

Welcome to the forums guys, and good luck with alttp.

Please keep from making additional threads on the same game if you can. One thread should suffice unless we are talking about major differences. Thanks!

Capped

2014-01-15 11:37:15 pm

Hey guys, im really interested in picking up alttp as my first speedrunning game, holds alot of nostalgic value to me Tongue

Unfortunately, i dont have my PAL SNES + cartridge anymore (fuck you sisters cat and that damn cup of tea.)

Its going to be casual for a long time so i dont need official versions for submitting times or anything just a version that allows everything to be acomplished (glitches etc).

The only version i currently own is the NTSC Wii VC (not sure what patch). Is that compatible with speedrunning or should i look into emulating? I see all the top times are either emulated or SNES (JP).

Im also really confused with all the different categories, alttp is quite confusing in that regard. ZSR has the "No out of bounds" category which i think (?) is the main one people run correct? You guys use alot of terms like Any % and Low % which i cant find much info on (Any % No S+Q No OoB or something right?)

Any advice on which version to find and which category to pick up would be great Smiley

Hey guys, im really interested in picking up alttp as my first speedrunning game, holds alot of nostalgic value to me :P Unfortunately, i dont have my PAL SNES + cartridge anymore (fuck you sisters cat and that damn cup of tea.)

Its going to be casual for a long time so i dont need official versions for submitting times or anything just a version that allows everything to be acomplished (glitches etc).

The only version i currently own is the NTSC Wii VC (not sure what patch). Is that compatible with speedrunning or should i look into emulating? I see all the top times are either emulated or SNES (JP).

Im also really confused with all the different categories, alttp is quite confusing in that regard. ZSR has the "No out of bounds" category which i think (?) is the main one people run correct? You guys use alot of terms like Any % and Low % which i cant find much info on (Any % No S+Q No OoB or something right?)

Any advice on which version to find and which category to pick up would be great :)

Linkorange

2014-01-16 01:21:46 am

I'm sorry, I've made a research before posting, but I didn't find any general thread on ALTTP, so I decided to create this one. I'll continue to read through the pages of the search results for "a link to the past" to find the main thread ;-).

sinister1

2014-01-16 07:30:20 am

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

Quote from Linkorange:

I'm sorry, I've made a research before posting, but I didn't find any general thread on ALTTP, so I decided to create this one. I'll continue to read through the pages of the search results for "a link to the past" to find the main thread ;-).

Forgot to include a link. Here is the thread I would recommend for alttp:

https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/snes_the_legend_of_zelda_a_link_to_the_past_.html

PrinnyTonic

Edit history:

PrinnyTonic: 2014-01-16 08:28:05 am

PrinnyTonic: 2014-01-16 08:24:23 am

PrinnyTonic: 2014-01-16 08:20:42 am

2014-01-16 08:18:18 am

German to the Past

Ah this is where this thread is hidden Cheesy

Searched the "older console" sub-section.

I've picked ALTTP up in december. Played on PAL (since this was the only version I had so far - I live in Germany).
Recently started practicing JAP1.0 (Any%, no OoB/S&Q) and had to adjust big time, since it runs 1/6 faster than PAL. Messed with a lot of my timing in things like the Armos-fight.

I only had one straight run so far in oder to get a PB I can refer to (2:12:27 - died 2x at Helmasaur, dropped down once at Ganon and used sub-optimal safe-strats, so sub 2:00 should be possible for me right now).

Currently I am working on a lot of save-states for Snes9x in order to train specific parts of the run at any time. If there is interst in that, I could share them as soon as I finished colleting them (only the save states - not the rom, of course).

One thing I still need to try out is the super speed glitch without the hookshot.

Quote from Capped:

Any advice on which version to find and which category to pick up would be great Smiley

Any% means you can finish any % of the game before finishing.
Low% refers to "low damage" and means beating the game with Master Sword (not sure on that one)
100% means ... well 100%. All the heartpieces, dungeons and items.
No OoB stands for No Out of Bounds. There are some tricks that let you "leave the games boundary" and take shortcuts.
No EG means "No Exploration Glitch". The Exploration Glitch is a follow up to an specific OoB which lets you finish the game in under 3 Minutes.
No S&Q means "No Save & Quit". Using the select-button and the save&quit-option in order to re-enter the game let's you spawn at specific points of the map and cut some corners.

I recommend playing Any%, no OoB/S&Q since this is the most popular category. 100% has two frustrating RNG-based mini-games.
Also I would recommend playing the japanese Version 1.0 because it contains some tricks that are only do-able in that version. I got my catridge from yggdrizzle. He sells a lot of stuff in this forum.
If you can not get a hold on a physical SNES, you could emulate JAP v1.0. The recommended Emulator to use is Snes9x v1.53 since it emulates pretty well. Some others programms like Zsnes do not emulate Lag properly and run faster in comparison.

The JAP1.0-only tricks inlcude:
* Item Dashing: Running with an active item in hand. This is essential for some other tricks and shortcuts
* Fake Flippers: Important in no S&Q. Gives you the possibility to swim without flippers.
* Block erase: Let's you delete a block that is pushed within a lightworld non-dungeon by using the mirror

Ah this is where this thread is hidden :D Searched the "older console" sub-section.

I've picked ALTTP up in december. Played on PAL (since this was the only version I had so far - I live in Germany).
Recently started practicing JAP1.0 (Any%, no OoB/S&Q) and had to adjust big time, since it runs 1/6 faster than PAL. Messed with a lot of my timing in things like the Armos-fight.

I only had one straight run so far in oder to get a PB I can refer to (2:12:27 - died 2x at Helmasaur, dropped down once at Ganon and used sub-optimal safe-strats, so sub 2:00 should be possible for me right now).

Currently I am working on a lot of save-states for Snes9x in order to train specific parts of the run at any time. If there is interst in that, I could share them as soon as I finished colleting them (only the save states - not the rom, of course).

One thing I still need to try out is the super speed glitch without the hookshot.

[quote="Capped"]
Any advice on which version to find and which category to pick up would be great :)
[/quote]
Any% means you can finish any % of the game before finishing.
Low% refers to "low damage" and means beating the game with Master Sword (not sure on that one)
100% means ... well 100%. All the heartpieces, dungeons and items.
No OoB stands for No Out of Bounds. There are some tricks that let you "leave the games boundary" and take shortcuts.
No EG means "No Exploration Glitch". The Exploration Glitch is a follow up to an specific OoB which lets you finish the game in under 3 Minutes.
No S&Q means "No Save & Quit". Using the select-button and the save&quit-option in order to re-enter the game let's you spawn at specific points of the map and cut some corners.

I recommend playing Any%, no OoB/S&Q since this is the most popular category. 100% has two frustrating RNG-based mini-games.
Also I would recommend playing the japanese Version 1.0 because it contains some tricks that are only do-able in that version. I got my catridge from yggdrizzle. He sells a lot of stuff in this forum.
If you can not get a hold on a physical SNES, you could emulate JAP v1.0. The recommended Emulator to use is Snes9x v1.53 since it emulates pretty well. Some others programms like Zsnes do not emulate Lag properly and run faster in comparison.

The JAP1.0-only tricks inlcude:
* [b]Item Dashing[/b]: Running with an active item in hand. This is essential for some other tricks and shortcuts
* [b]Fake Flippers[/b]: Important in no S&Q. Gives you the possibility to swim without flippers.
* [b]Block erase[/b]: Let's you delete a block that is pushed within a lightworld non-dungeon by using the mirror

Linkorange

2014-01-16 12:48:02 pm

Yes it would seem this thread was hidden here :-). I have one question about the Item Dashing : I'm practising in the Tower of Hera and I'm blocked in the room where the slabs attack us. What order of buttons do we have to press ?

My goal : send the Boomerang down and dash to the right. However, I can't do it. I press simultaneously Y and A, but I'm not sure about the directions, and about the order I have to press them. I make Link stand facing to the right, then I press A+Y, and just before my dash begins I press down to make my Boomerang go down, and finally right to dash into this direction. But Link doesn't run, or my Boomerang doesn't go in the direction I want. So this is my question : in what order do I have to press the buttons in order to perform this particular Item Dash ?

(sorry if my English is not terrible, I'm French and I do my best ^^)

StingerPA

2014-01-16 01:01:40 pm

For that item dash, you need to press A, Y, and Down all on the same frame in order to send the boomerang down while dashing across the room.

adde

2014-01-16 01:57:34 pm

Superspeed is 1.0 only too

Capped

2014-01-16 10:25:49 pm

Thanks very much for the info, i'll look into emulating 1.0 then and buy a console later if i get really into it. (I bought my Wii after discovering cosmo/siglemic in 2011 for SM64 / OoT before even thinking about it..i never ran them at all, really..) and order an adapter for my controller as i dont think the PS3 one would work out too well.

Will take notes on the route and tricks from Krystals links / runs and get to practicing :-)

PrinnyTonic

Edit history:

PrinnyTonic: 2014-01-17 12:21:40 pm

PrinnyTonic: 2014-01-17 03:55:03 am

2014-01-17 12:45:36 am

German to the Past

Used the safe strats I discussed with Stinger on a run yesterday. Had some major hickubs like Moldorm and second Aghanim. But I got a new PB of 2:04:12.

My goal is sub 2:00 by the end of next week. Allthough I raged a lot on stream (not cursing the game but me for my mistakes) I am very happy with the results, since I really started practicing jap1.0 just 2 weeks ago.

Thanks for the great support and tricks you guys are providing.

/EDIT:
Quick Question:
I had problems adjusting myself pixel perfect (for example when I was doing Hammer yumps). But then I heard that Link allways moves in waves of 1 to 2 pixels. So could this be the reason why it seemed to me like I was sometimes getting y-movement of 1 pixel and sometimes not? Does this rule to his walk cycle also apply when I move on the y-axis while having my sword hold out to the left/right?
This would be awesome because if I would need to go down 1px and overshoot it because Link moves 2ps, I only need to go up 1px.

/EDIT2
yay! Sub 2:00!

\o\ |o| /o/

Used the safe strats I discussed with Stinger on a run yesterday. Had some major hickubs like Moldorm and second Aghanim. But I got a new PB of 2:04:12.

My goal is sub 2:00 by the end of next week. Allthough I raged a lot on stream (not cursing the game but me for my mistakes) I am very happy with the results, since I really started practicing jap1.0 just 2 weeks ago.

Thanks for the great support and tricks you guys are providing.

[b]/EDIT:[/b]
Quick Question:
I had problems adjusting myself pixel perfect (for example when I was doing Hammer yumps). But then I heard that Link allways moves in waves of 1 to 2 pixels. So could this be the reason why it seemed to me like I was sometimes getting y-movement of 1 pixel and sometimes not? Does this rule to his walk cycle also apply when I move on the y-axis while having my sword hold out to the left/right?
This would be awesome because if I would need to go down 1px and overshoot it because Link moves 2ps, I only need to go up 1px.

[b]/EDIT2[/b]
yay! Sub 2:00!
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BeNE_FICYAA9Rc6.png[/img]
\o\ |o| /o/

Linkorange

2014-01-21 02:51:30 am

Hey guys,

I'm rather curious and I would like to know, how does the "No Exploration Glitch" category work ? I mean, what are the rules of this category ? I don't want to train it particularly, but it's still a bit obscur to me. If I understand well, in this category, it's forbidden to use the Exploration Glitch, which is the major glitch used in the Any% ?

I watched the WR by Jadin and he often uses a glitch with apparently pause buffering (using the Select button) which is not the EG, but at one moment it seems he uses the EG to go in the Palace of Darkness... Maybe this is not the EG, but it looks like.

Anyway, this is an impressive run, especially on the end : beating Ganon's Tower and Ganon himself with only 5 hearts is amazing !

PrinnyTonic

2014-01-21 06:47:38 am

German to the Past

The Exploration Glitch is a glitch that uses Out of Bounds. Jadin's run was Any% NO Out of Bounds. The EG let's you "exit" the overworld map and wander freely through a kind of "under-underworld". It's hard to explain it in words. You can watch me showing it off in this video (language is German, but I'll explain it here)

(Watch from 2:10 onwards)

This is how it works:
When you jump down a ledge there is a "switch" in the memory of the game that sets to "Jumping = TRUE". If link is jumping he is not able to take damge and whenever the switch gets flicked to "Jumping = FALSE" (so when Link has finished jumping) he will be put down own level in terms of "layers" within the overworld.
By save and quitting out of the game while jumping down a ledge you preserve that switch on "TRUE" within the memory.
When you are getting hit the game sets "Got hit = TRUE". After reseting this to "FALSE" (when Link's invulnaribility-time ends) the game also sets "Jumping = FALSE" (I don't know why. Maybe because Link would not be able to get hurt if he would actually be jumping). So naturally the game puts Link down own layer. In the video example the game takes link and puts him trough the floor. Making it possible to explore the whole map.

I hope this is correct. If not - please correct me guys.

The Exploration Glitch is a glitch that uses Out of Bounds. Jadin's run was Any% NO Out of Bounds. The EG let's you "exit" the overworld map and wander freely through a kind of "under-underworld". It's hard to explain it in words. You can watch me showing it off in this video (language is German, but I'll explain it here)

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNL51bMJmuc[/url] (Watch from 2:10 onwards)

This is how it works:
When you jump down a ledge there is a "switch" in the memory of the game that sets to "Jumping = TRUE". If link is jumping he is not able to take damge and whenever the switch gets flicked to "Jumping = FALSE" (so when Link has finished jumping) he will be put down own level in terms of "layers" within the overworld.
By save and quitting out of the game while jumping down a ledge you preserve that switch on "TRUE" within the memory.
When you are getting hit the game sets "Got hit = TRUE". After reseting this to "FALSE" (when Link's invulnaribility-time ends) the game also sets "Jumping = FALSE" (I don't know why. Maybe because Link would not be able to get hurt if he would actually be jumping). So naturally the game puts Link down own layer. In the video example the game takes link and puts him trough the floor. Making it possible to explore the whole map.

I hope this is correct. If not - please correct me guys.

Linkorange

2014-01-21 07:14:24 am

Thanks, these explications about the EG are very clear. But in the Any% run, fierymario (who has the WR) doesn't get hit by anything, and he can still walk across the walls ; is this the EG there ? Or another glitch ?

Also, my question was rather about the "No EG" run ^^. Because on ZeldaSpeedRuns, this is how it's called, you can see this here. Maybe another name is "Any% No Out of Bounds" ? But this would be strange, because for me, the "Any% No OOB" is almost the same thing than "No OOB / No S+Q", but with the Save&Quit authorized.

Jadin, on his run, uses Out of Bounds, doesn't he ? Even if this is not the EG, this is still OOB, isn't it ?

PrinnyTonic

2014-01-21 07:17:46 am

German to the Past

There are ways to get out of bounds without the EG. But I can not explain those. Sorry. (I am also new to running ALTTP) Smiley

adde

Edit history:

adde: 2014-01-21 08:12:43 am

2014-01-21 08:11:50 am

Quote from Linkorange:

Thanks, these explications about the EG are very clear. But in the Any% run, fierymario (who has the WR) doesn't get hit by anything, and he can still walk across the walls ; is this the EG there ? Or another glitch ?

Also, my question was rather about the "No EG" run ^^. Because on ZeldaSpeedRuns, this is how it's called, you can see this here. Maybe another name is "Any% No Out of Bounds" ? But this would be strange, because for me, the "Any% No OOB" is almost the same thing than "No OOB / No S+Q", but with the Save&Quit authorized.

Jadin, on his run, uses Out of Bounds, doesn't he ? Even if this is not the EG, this is still OOB, isn't it ?

The Any% run by fierymario is using EG to walk on the lowest layer to reach the triforce chamber.
Jadin's No EG run uses out of bounds, but no EG(exploration glitch), a more interesting run.
Any% No Out of Bounds = Any% No S+Q
Any% = Any% EG
No Exploration Glitch = Any% OoB, No EG

[quote="Linkorange"]Thanks, these explications about the EG are very clear. But in the Any% run, fierymario (who has the WR) doesn't get hit by anything, and he can still walk across the walls ; is this the EG there ? Or another glitch ?

Also, my question was rather about the "[i]No[/i] EG" run ^^. Because on ZeldaSpeedRuns, this is how it's called, you can see this [url=http://www.zeldaspeedruns.com/leaderboards/alttp/no-eg]here[/url]. Maybe another name is "Any% No Out of Bounds" ? But this would be strange, because for me, the "Any% No OOB" is almost the same thing than "No OOB / No S+Q", but with the Save&Quit authorized.

Jadin, on [url=http://www.zeldaspeedruns.com/speedruns/6278]his run[/url], uses Out of Bounds, doesn't he ? Even if this is not the EG, this is still OOB, isn't it ?[/quote]

The Any% run by fierymario is using EG to walk on the lowest layer to reach the triforce chamber.
Jadin's No EG run uses out of bounds, but no EG(exploration glitch), a more interesting run.
Any% No Out of Bounds = Any% No S+Q
Any% = Any% EG
No Exploration Glitch = Any% OoB, No EG

PrinnyTonic

2014-01-21 04:20:25 pm

German to the Past

Under 1:55 done today ^^
Getting there step by step Cheesy

Was still using lots of safety:
* 2 Bottles
* Net
* Red Mail
* Silber Arrows
* Butter Sword
* Powder
* 1/2 Magic

adde

2014-01-21 05:18:20 pm

Quote from PrinnyTonic:

Under 1:55 done today ^^
Getting there step by step Cheesy

Was still using lots of safety:
* 2 Bottles
* Net
* Red Mail
* Silber Arrows
* Butter Sword
* Powder
* 1/2 Magic

Congratulations!
Also wanted to point out that my run got published on SDA today, the run can be seen here: http://speeddemosarchive.com/ZeldaLinkToThePast.html

PrinnyTonic

2014-01-23 01:44:35 am

German to the Past

May I ask what would be a good time for a beginner? I know that Sub1:30 is where a ALTTP runner wants to be. But what would be a good time for me to aim for in order to think: "That's allready quite good"?

Linkorange

Edit history:

Linkorange: 2014-01-25 10:38:28 am

2014-01-25 10:37:29 am

I think the best thing to do to evaluate yourself is to watch the leaderboards. Sub 1:50:00 begins at rank 62 and sub 1:40:00 begins at rank 45. To me, if you are sub 1:40:00 you reached a quite good level. Sub 1:30 is a more difficult step, because it matches with rank 16 !

By the way, have you a Twitch channel ? I don't have one (my computer is not powerful enough) but I think it's motivating if someone watches you running ! And I'm curious to see you play this game, too :-).

This is another subject but I have a question about the Lanmolas : is their behavior completely RNG or is there a fast strat to beat them quickly ? Because at the begnning of the fight, it's always the same thing, but after this, this is a complete mess ! Also, I saw some people use their bombs - is it advised or have I to prefer the arrows ?

PrinnyTonic

2014-01-25 03:13:45 pm

German to the Past

There behavior is random.But they tend to move towards the other half of the room cibtrary to their spawn. You can train to time your arrow-shots in a way that they'd hit the Lanmolas as soon as they come out of the ground.

My twitch-channel is Twitch.tv/OmfgPrinnyDood

PrinnyTonic

2014-01-27 02:07:58 pm

German to the Past

When you take a look at my splits (as seen above) where do you think is the biggest potencial to shave of time?

PrinnyTonic

2014-02-02 04:25:19 pm

German to the Past

Got a new PB today. 1:47:10
I used the following safety strats: Net+Bottle+Powder (after Flute), Buttersword+Arrows (after swamp palace) and Red Mail.