Binding of Isaac

marshmallow

Edit history:

marshmallow: 2012-06-09 11:07:35 am

marshmallow: 2012-06-09 11:06:37 am

marshmallow: 2012-06-09 11:05:37 am

2012-06-09 11:05:14 am

Jack of all Trades

Do you guys agree that ending the game in Sheol versus Cathedral should be a different category?

Satan has easier to dodge projectiles, but I'd think you can kill Isaac faster since he seems to have lower health and doesn't move or go through any animation changes where he's invulnerable.

If you do the Fetus challenge you always go to Sheol.

The curse of the labyrinth can be good if you find the boss room quickly or have a map or compass since you can do two floors in one. Or if you shovel it then it's even faster, of course.

André

2012-06-09 12:00:59 pm

Main Work!!!

I personally agree that this should be a different category.

holydiver42

2012-06-09 01:09:37 pm

Everybody DANCE!

I concur on Sheol vs. Cathedral being different categories.

On another note, Epic Fetus and Technology 2 do not mix well at all. I had a run where I got both, and it gimped both powers. Tech 2 would only fire for about a half second, then Epic Fetus would fire on a delay. So stick with one or the other (probably Epic Fetus for a speedrun).

marshmallow

Edit history:

marshmallow: 2012-06-09 03:09:13 pm

marshmallow: 2012-06-09 02:33:33 pm

marshmallow: 2012-06-09 02:33:13 pm

marshmallow: 2012-06-09 02:32:46 pm

marshmallow: 2012-06-09 02:30:12 pm

marshmallow: 2012-06-09 02:28:47 pm

marshmallow: 2012-06-09 01:32:04 pm

marshmallow: 2012-06-09 01:31:03 pm

marshmallow: 2012-06-09 01:29:59 pm

2012-06-09 01:27:47 pm

Jack of all Trades

Curse rooms can be useful because if they're next to a secret room there will be a door to it (still spiked). If nothing else it can help you eliminate possibilities. Also the boi wiki says curse rooms can have free devil/god items. Shovels count as devil items right?

Red chests can teleport you to the devil/god room which can be good but when you exit you'll be in the first room of the floor again, which can set you back timewise. And if you unlock the devil/god room again the item won't reset. So unless you desperately need health then I don't think touching red chests is a good idea unless it's close to the starting position.

It seems like the perfect run is even less likely now because it seems the fastest way to progress would be to shovel past XL floors. But if you want to do Cathedral then you can't shovel past the It Lives fight.

It's unlikely, but you can manipulate the monsters that lob explosive green balls or the mulliboom enemies to open a secret for you. Would look pro as hell in a run.

Had a run where I had both x-ray specs and epic fetus that was pretty fun. Secret and super secret rooms are often connected, so you can sometimes skip a bunch of stuff by going through those and the specs show you the correct way immediately (and it even opens otherwise impossible holes, like going into boss rooms).

When going through with epic fetus I try to see if I can blow up all the enemies in a room with only 1-2 shots since you can potentially get a card that gives either map vision or warps you to the boss (which I'd save either for a potential womb XL level or Cathedral/Sheol). Or if the room is an intersection and you may have to come back it may be faster to kill the enemies on the first visit in case you run into a dead end and have to return.

Curse rooms can be useful because if they're next to a secret room there will be a door to it (still spiked). If nothing else it can help you eliminate possibilities. Also the boi wiki says curse rooms can have free devil/god items. Shovels count as devil items right?

Red chests can teleport you to the devil/god room which can be good but when you exit you'll be in the first room of the floor again, which can set you back timewise. And if you unlock the devil/god room again the item won't reset. So unless you desperately need health then I don't think touching red chests is a good idea unless it's close to the starting position.

It seems like the perfect run is even less likely now because it seems the fastest way to progress would be to shovel past XL floors. But if you want to do Cathedral then you can't shovel past the It Lives fight.

It's unlikely, but you can manipulate the monsters that lob explosive green balls or the mulliboom enemies to open a secret for you. Would look pro as hell in a run.

Had a run where I had both x-ray specs and epic fetus that was pretty fun. Secret and super secret rooms are often connected, so you can sometimes skip a bunch of stuff by going through those and the specs show you the correct way immediately (and it even opens otherwise impossible holes, like going into boss rooms).

When going through with epic fetus I try to see if I can blow up all the enemies in a room with only 1-2 shots since you can potentially get a card that gives either map vision or warps you to the boss (which I'd save either for a potential womb XL level or Cathedral/Sheol). Or if the room is an intersection and you may have to come back it may be faster to kill the enemies on the first visit in case you run into a dead end and have to return.

Onin

2012-06-09 05:08:22 pm

So basically, the perfect route would be:

- First room, use your 1 bomb to enter the secret room
- Pick up Epic Fetus from secret room
- Go straight into curse room
- Pick up Shovel from curse room
- Encounter as many XL levels as possible

Good luck :|

NMS

Edit history:

NMS: 2012-06-10 10:58:25 am

2012-06-10 06:04:48 am

On the up side, bombing the closest wall and restarting if it isn't the secret room is probably the fastest way to find it anyway.

Categorization for this game is already a mess. It probably makes sense to have different categories for runs that end at Mom or Mom's Heart vs. a final boss (100% ?), but I don't think it's worth it for Satan vs. Isaac vs. Huh?

vs. Triacnid (when it was a final boss). I do think that Wrath of the Lamb should be a separate game from the base game. I know we normally don't do that for DLC, but it's arguably more like an expansion.

Edit: I just found Epic Fetus 4 or 5 games in a row. It seems pretty common in secret rooms. And shops are back to carrying their normal items in addition to the new ones, so Epic Fetus + Compass is not too difficult to assemble. Even without shovel, that could be very fast if you just blow the doors and rush through.

Anonymous

2012-06-10 12:31:08 pm

Quote from Onin:

So basically, the perfect route would be:

- First room, use your 1 bomb to enter the secret room
- Pick up Epic Fetus from secret room
- Go straight into curse room
- Pick up Shovel from curse room
- Encounter as many XL levels as possible

Good luck :|

Let's add, Habit to first floor item room so you can get hit twice to quickly recharge the shovel. Not that I've ever seen the Shovel in WotL

NMS

2012-06-10 03:36:21 pm

That would be absurdly fast if you had the health to survive it. According to the wiki, the Matchstick trinket does the same thing (could be wrong though).

marshmallow

Edit history:

marshmallow: 2012-06-11 11:43:14 am

2012-06-11 11:42:38 am

Jack of all Trades

No, the matchstick increases bomb drops. The wiki doesn't say otherwise either.

Haven't seen a shovel in the curse room yet, but still worth checking out.

Been switching off on normal Isaac runs and Dr. Fetus challenge. Fetus seems to give me more Epic Fetus and you can find more secret rooms easily as you move down since you kill everything so fast and can just spam bombs at walls but I haven't found a shovel yet, normal runs give you the dice which is hard to pass up but the start is so slow.

Probably shouldn't try a Cathedral run until Ed fixes the last boss in the next patch.

marshmallow

Edit history:

marshmallow: 2012-06-11 04:03:33 pm

marshmallow: 2012-06-11 04:02:50 pm

marshmallow: 2012-06-11 04:02:32 pm

marshmallow: 2012-06-11 04:00:51 pm

marshmallow: 2012-06-11 04:00:15 pm

2012-06-11 03:59:28 pm

Jack of all Trades

I had a 11:45 run on the fetus challenge where I found a late epic fetus (catacombs 2) and pretty much nothing else. Sub 10:00 is probably possible even without a shovel if you can find where to go right away.

Had a shovel dr. fetus run where I matched one of old crazy arrival sheol times but died again (6:40 something).

It's really nice if you can pick up flight from a god room later on. They seem to spawn later, in the second half of the game instead of the near the beginning -- or is it just me?

I don't notice any of the power items noticeably changing the epic fetus damage or rate of fire (for the positive), but I could be wrong.

Guppy's head is nice to have with Dr. Fetus because it can take care of annoying fly/spider enemies, or general cleanup.

marshmallow

Edit history:

marshmallow: 2012-06-11 05:58:02 pm

2012-06-11 05:57:35 pm

Jack of all Trades

Dunno if this is just me, but I've had two minor issues during my runs:

Sometimes when skipping the between level scenes it will freeze up before loading the next level. Sometimes if I wait half a second before tapping space it seems to prevent it.

When using epic fetus, especially in enemy dense rooms, your movement keys will sometimes become stuck and Isaac will go on auto-pilot. Kinda have to very consciously switch directions constantly instead of say holding down right unless the path is clear.

NMS

2012-06-11 11:04:16 pm

Quote from marshmallow:

No, the matchstick increases bomb drops. The wiki doesn't say otherwise either.

Probably it was changed by someone who found it with the Habit, then fixed.

Epic Fetus isn't affected by most things that affect tears, damage, or bombs. I read that Ipecac increases it's damage though. I guess Technology 2 affects it because it replaces half your shots.

I haven't noticed the problems you describe. I did have trouble with Epic Fetus's aim point stopping while I was clicking, but it may have been due to playing with a trackpad.

holydiver42

2012-06-12 01:15:54 pm

Everybody DANCE!

I've had the game freeze on me for several seconds when skipping the dream sequences between levels. It seems to happen more often when I'm entering the new levels (Cellar, Catacombs, and especially Necropolis). Also, yesterday I had a really weird glitch that was similar to your situation of keys seemingly getting stuck, only it was with the keys for shooting. It wasn't with Epic Fetus, though, just regular shots. It didn't change until I left the room, so Isaac was basically just firing to the left until I exited. I really wish some of the copious glitches would get fixed. I love the game, but having all sorts of weird and annoying glitches happen all the time is getting frustrating.

marshmallow

Edit history:

marshmallow: 2012-06-12 04:09:18 pm

2012-06-12 04:07:42 pm

Jack of all Trades

I just had a mediocre 8:04 on the Dr. Fetus challenge. Found shovel on caves 2. Got lucky to get XL maps for both Depths and Womb. Arrived in Sheol about 5:41. Took the wrong way in Sheol, could've had 7:34 if I went the right way first. Some sloppy rooms because I hadn't cleared rooms with Dr. Fetus in awhile, usually just skipping past without a shovel.

I think with epic + shovel + XL + emperor card or a close boss spawn sub 7:00 could be possible.

marshmallow

2012-06-12 05:49:27 pm

Jack of all Trades

Direct download (right click save as):

http://marsh.speedrunwiki.com/Binding%20of%20Isaac/%23Wrath/boi_marsh_drfetus_804.mp4

Youtube:

Waffle

2012-06-20 09:48:49 pm

If you're really lucky, maybe you can get a battery from Judgement or a shop so you have less rooms to finish to recharge "We Need to Go Deeper"

holydiver42

2012-06-27 12:11:17 pm

Everybody DANCE!

I'm sure some of you know by now, since the 1.3 patch has been out for a week or so, but yet another final level has been added, with yet another final boss. It throws yet another wrinkle into a potential speedrun. Spoiler tags just in case anyone doesn't want the details ruined.

So apparently, to access the final final level (The Chest), you have to have the Polaroid trinket, go to the Cathedral, and defeat Isaac. When the giant treasure chest drops down, you enter it, and now you're in the final level. It's filled with bosses and minibosses, and you can't bomb your way out of any rooms (that last bit of info is from the Isaac wiki, but I haven't tested it myself). Huh?

is the last boss, and it's the same fight as it was before the 1.3 patch (basically the same as the Isaac fight, only with some homing tears). Once you beat Huh?

, you get the (hopefully) final ending.

I'm wondering if this would constitute yet another seperate category from the previously mentioned ones, or if it should replace the Cathedral category. Thoughts?

I'm sure some of you know by now, since the 1.3 patch has been out for a week or so, but yet another final level has been added, with yet another final boss.  It throws yet another wrinkle into a potential speedrun.  Spoiler tags just in case anyone doesn't want the details ruined.
[hidden]So apparently, to access the final final level (The Chest), you have to have the Polaroid trinket, go to the Cathedral, and defeat Isaac.  When the giant treasure chest drops down, you enter it, and now you're in the final level.  It's filled with bosses and minibosses, and you can't bomb your way out of any rooms (that last bit of info is from the Isaac wiki, but I haven't tested it myself).  ??? is the last boss, and it's the same fight as it was before the 1.3 patch (basically the same as the Isaac fight, only with some homing tears).  Once you beat ??? , you get the (hopefully) final ending.[/hidden]
I'm wondering if this would constitute yet another seperate category from the previously mentioned ones, or if it should replace the Cathedral category.  Thoughts?

HiipFire

Edit history:

HiipFire: 2012-06-27 01:41:18 pm

2012-06-27 01:40:39 pm

Another category, make it the 'final' ending.

Guiren

2012-07-20 02:18:20 pm

Hi everybody !

I would like to know what's the best time on BoI, because I don't find it on internet :/
I just made 9:37,59 to finish the game, I stopped at It Lives, and if this time is great, I'll probably hang myself because I didn't record it...

NMS

2012-07-20 04:30:23 pm

I can confirm the details in holydiver42's post. Also, Mom now drops the Polaroid every time. Still, it would be extremely tough to speedrun the new final ending without an Emperor card. In normal gameplay I've only beaten it so far with Habit + Book of Revelations or Luck Foot + gambling hundreds of coins.

I guess at this point we should consider each possible depth (or boss?) the game can end at a separate category. So here are the records I know of:
- The best Binding of Isaac Sheol run is my 11:22
- The best Wrath of the Lamb Womb/Utero run is Guiren's 9:37 (please don't kill yourself though!)
- The best Wrath of the Lamb Dr. Fetus' Revenge run is marshmallow's 8:04

I've only been playing casually lately, but I'd consider backing up and clearing my save, then going for a Mom run with Epic Fetus.

guiren

2012-07-21 10:11:56 pm

I'm actually trying to do a similar/faster run and record it this time ! I was wondering if there's a list of all the best times for each category of runs, maybe someone could give a link ?

guiren

Edit history:

guiren: 2012-07-24 07:54:06 am

guiren: 2012-07-24 07:32:49 am

guiren: 2012-07-24 07:32:41 am

guiren: 2012-07-24 07:31:48 am

2012-07-24 07:30:58 am

Ok so I will double post here because I made it really faster !

What I did : Mom's heart upgraded ("It Lives") with Isaac, in 8:28,99.

There's the results of the timer for the run (WSplit, I did a screenshot of the "edit" window because it shows decimals after seconds) :

And on my twitch.tv account I streamed the speedrun in live !
So there's the link : http://fr.twitch.tv/cosmicabuse/b/326070701 , at 47:39 in the video.

Misc/More details :
I asked mikwuyma how to start and stop the timer for Binding, because I couldn't find etablished rules on this game. Like I suspected, he said that the beginning is at the first possible input (character control begins) and the end is when we lose the control of the character.
I chose to stop touching my keyboard or mouse for a bit after I stopped the timer, in the boss room, after the Heart died.

If someone has questions about my choices (a few of them where crappy because I stressed a lot), ask here !

Guiren

EDIT : sorry if my english is bad ^^'

Ok so I will double post here because I made it really faster !

What I did : Mom's heart upgraded ("It Lives") with Isaac, in 8:28,99.

There's the results of the timer for the run (WSplit, I did a screenshot of the "edit" window because it shows decimals after seconds) :

[URL=http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=702069WSplitBindingSR.jpg][IMG]http://img15.hostingpics.net/thumbs/mini_702069WSplitBindingSR.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

And on my twitch.tv account I streamed the speedrun in live !
So there's the link : [url]http://fr.twitch.tv/cosmicabuse/b/326070701[/url] , at 47:39 in the video.

Misc/More details :
I asked mikwuyma how to start and stop the timer for Binding, because I couldn't find etablished rules on this game. Like I suspected, he said that the beginning is at the first possible input (character control begins) and the end is when we lose the control of the character.
I chose to stop touching my keyboard or mouse for a bit after I stopped the timer, in the boss room, after the Heart died.

If someone has questions about my choices (a few of them where crappy because I stressed a lot), ask here !

Guiren

EDIT : sorry if my english is bad ^^'

Fragmaster01

2012-07-24 01:58:24 pm

Wiggle wiggle

Not bad. You do need to focus less on enemies in an Epic Fetus run, though. Too much time spent shooting enemies when you could just blow open the door. Only go for enemies if you can get them in one shot.

guiren

2012-07-25 07:28:08 am

Yep I do know that, this is the first game I try to speedrun, so... ^^

holydiver42

2012-07-25 03:26:24 pm

Everybody DANCE!

I'm wondering at this point if having a category for ending at The Cathedral is even necessary now that Mom drops the Polaroid and getting to The Chest is no longer a matter of luck. Thoughts?