Batman: Arkham Asylum

Master ZED

Edit history:

Master ZED: 2010-01-27 03:27:52 pm

2010-01-27 08:28:07 am

Quote from sshplur:

Quote from Master ZED:

The only serious blunder was Scarecrow 2, where I lost a minute to getting spooked.

You mean you got caught and died or you just stood still and waited for him?

The latter. Given you have ample time to pause and restart from checkpoint after getting caught, Scarecrow's gaze should kill a single segment run on the spot.

EDIT: Okay, Batman's up in the verification topic. I need to break from this game for a little bit to prevent burnout anyway, or at least from the story mode. :\

Rudy06

2010-01-28 01:40:54 pm

Earlier today I saw it was up in the verifier thread, but now it has disappeared. Anything up?

mikwuyma

2010-01-28 03:10:39 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Yeah, I got more than enough verifiers for the run in less than 24 hours.

MAS8705

2010-01-28 05:51:50 pm

SDA Apprentice -- (3-1)

Quote from mikwuyma:

Yeah, I got more than enough verifiers for the run in less than 24 hours.

Goes to show you how many people want to see this run... Smiley

Rudy06

2010-01-28 06:33:39 pm

Awesome! I want to see this run a lot! Do you have to be here awhile before you do verifying work?

honorableJay

2010-01-29 11:55:16 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

I found a few skips yesterday on the PC version and was wondering if you guys know about them yet:

1) Ivy can be skipped (when you have to trace her scent) and you can make a bee-line to Killer Croc. However, sometimes Batman refuses to let you leave the underground waterway. I'm assuming doing a checkpoint restart before attempting to skip Ivy will cause the game to let you leave. I did find that switching detective mode on, then immediately off in new rooms also let me get out.

2) Ivy's vines that block the exit door in the Bio building can be crossed with the line launcher when you leave (climb the fountain and shoot for the door) and when you have to come back for the Titan Ivy fight (stand in the wall on the left, stay to the right, walk to the edge spamming attack and the launcher should kick in right before you drop).

There was another one, but I'll have to go through the game to remember if it was even worth it. A few things I figured out while playing:

The quickest way to take anyone down from behind is a quick batarang/ground pound since the overall animation times are quicker than a silent takedown (works great when freeing Gordon from Harley).

Any chance you get to spray Explosive Gel on the ground before a few bad guys charge you, use it. Most of the fights in Scarecrow's nightmare scenes finish really quick with this trick. There are also a few fights throughout the game where some Gel can speed things up (can't remember all of them).

The very first booby-trapped Gargoyle room (right before nightmare 3) does NOT require you to take out any of the guards. You only have to disable the security terminal. The quickest way I found to do this is to glide kick/pound the first guard from the vent, then immediately jump to any gargoyle in range. Glide from the gargoyle to the center office, then drop down on the stairs opposite of the terminal. With the range booster you can take out the terminal even if a goon is standing there (doesn't notice you for some reason) then exit the room without touching anyone else (most are still distracted from the first goon you took out).

With more than 3 enemies, using a triple batarang to take down 3 guards, then glide kick/ground pounding the 4th can sometimes be quicker than going right after the downed goons (depends on execution) since nobody will be shooting at you. Once the 4th guard is downed, another triple batarang can stun the rising guards long enough to get a shot in (or even to stun them again for more pounding action).

Another fun move is to batarang a guard who's climbing a ladder since it'll knock him out instantly from the fall (doesn't always work, funny when it does).

I found a few skips yesterday on the PC version and was wondering if you guys know about them yet:

1) Ivy can be skipped (when you have to trace her scent) and you can make a bee-line to Killer Croc. However, sometimes Batman refuses to let you leave the underground waterway. I'm assuming doing a checkpoint restart before attempting to skip Ivy will cause the game to let you leave. I did find that switching detective mode on, then immediately off in new rooms also let me get out.

2) Ivy's vines that block the exit door in the Bio building can be crossed with the line launcher when you leave (climb the fountain and shoot for the door) and when you have to come back for the Titan Ivy fight (stand in the wall on the left, stay to the right, walk to the edge spamming attack and the launcher should kick in right before you drop).

There was another one, but I'll have to go through the game to remember if it was even worth it. A few things I figured out while playing:

The quickest way to take anyone down from behind is a quick batarang/ground pound since the overall animation times are quicker than a silent takedown (works great when freeing Gordon from Harley).

Any chance you get to spray Explosive Gel on the ground before a few bad guys charge you, use it. Most of the fights in Scarecrow's nightmare scenes finish really quick with this trick. There are also a few fights throughout the game where some Gel can speed things up (can't remember all of them).

The very first booby-trapped Gargoyle room (right before nightmare 3) does NOT require you to take out any of the guards. You only have to disable the security terminal. The quickest way I found to do this is to glide kick/pound the first guard from the vent, then immediately jump to any gargoyle in range. Glide from the gargoyle to the center office, then drop down on the stairs opposite of the terminal. With the range booster you can take out the terminal even if a goon is standing there (doesn't notice you for some reason) then exit the room without touching anyone else (most are still distracted from the first goon you took out).

With more than 3 enemies, using a triple batarang to take down 3 guards, then glide kick/ground pounding the 4th can sometimes be quicker than going right after the downed goons (depends on execution) since nobody will be shooting at you. Once the 4th guard is downed, another triple batarang can stun the rising guards long enough to get a shot in (or even to stun them again for more pounding action).

Another fun move is to batarang a guard who's climbing a ladder since it'll knock him out instantly from the fall (doesn't always work, funny when it does).

Master ZED

2010-01-30 12:46:12 am

Quote from honorableJay:

I found a few skips yesterday on the PC version and was wondering if you guys know about them yet

You could read my notes first. I posted them for a reason. :\

Quote from honorableJay:

1) Ivy can be skipped (when you have to trace her scent) and you can make a bee-line to Killer Croc. However, sometimes Batman refuses to let you leave the underground waterway. I'm assuming doing a checkpoint restart before attempting to skip Ivy will cause the game to let you leave. I did find that switching detective mode on, then immediately off in new rooms also let me get out.

I tried this awhile back and couldn't leave. If testing shows the checkpoint restart is required, then it won't matter to my run, as using a checkpoint means a new segment.

In fact, now that I think about it, a single segment run doesn't have the option of dying either, since dying in itself is a checkpoint restart.

Quote from honorableJay:

2) Ivy's vines that block the exit door in the Bio building can be crossed with the line launcher when you leave (climb the fountain and shoot for the door) and when you have to come back for the Titan Ivy fight (stand in the wall on the left, stay to the right, walk to the edge spamming attack and the launcher should kick in right before you drop).

This is in the run, though the latter is different; I used the corner closest to the door to simply jump the plant instead.

Quote from honorableJay:

The quickest way to take anyone down from behind is a quick batarang/ground pound since the overall animation times are quicker than a silent takedown (works great when freeing Gordon from Harley).

Agreed, but Harley? I'd have to see it first. I can never be sure how well armed thugs can see and hear.

Quote from honorableJay:

The very first booby-trapped Gargoyle room (right before nightmare 3) does NOT require you to take out any of the guards. You only have to disable the security terminal. The quickest way I found to do this is to glide kick/pound the first guard from the vent, then immediately jump to any gargoyle in range. Glide from the gargoyle to the center office, then drop down on the stairs opposite of the terminal. With the range booster you can take out the terminal even if a goon is standing there (doesn't notice you for some reason) then exit the room without touching anyone else (most are still distracted from the first goon you took out).

I just hop the rail after the glide kick, wait for the thugs to pass through the console room, then use the Line Launcher to get there to avoid being seen. Most of the time, you have more than long enough to decrypt the console and escape seamlessly. The latter doesn't always hold true, though. There's also a weird enemy AI quirk that causes me to wait before using the Line Launcher in that if I stay on the vent's side long enough, the enemies pass by where I need to go, but if I line launch too early, they "lose sight" of me and someone ends up guarding the console, which I didn't want in the run. I didn't know there was an angle at which you could get the console from far off though. I guess I always thought I'd get noticed trying to break the console with a goon there. I always hide in the inner corner of the console side anyway so I have maximum time to re-think my strategy if the enemies are in a bad position afterward.

One thing I do for "stealth" situations in the second half of the game is use the quick Batclaw in direct combat. A fight always brings everyone to Batman, and if one is good enough with the claw, you have the health needed, and the environment is well-suited (plenty of ways to yank enemies off of edges), you can usually claw and/or ground pound everyone faster than finishing by other means. Interestingly enough, a missed claw or batarang is louder than one that hits. Kinda weird, but I'll take it. Smiley

[quote="honorableJay"]
I found a few skips yesterday on the PC version and was wondering if you guys know about them yet[/quote]You could read my notes first.  I posted them for a reason. :\

[quote="honorableJay"]1) Ivy can be skipped (when you have to trace her scent) and you can make a bee-line to Killer Croc. However, sometimes Batman refuses to let you leave the underground waterway. I'm assuming doing a checkpoint restart before attempting to skip Ivy will cause the game to let you leave. I did find that switching detective mode on, then immediately off in new rooms also let me get out.[/quote]I tried this awhile back and couldn't leave.  If testing shows the checkpoint restart is required, then it won't matter to my run, as using a checkpoint means a new segment.

In fact, now that I think about it, a single segment run doesn't have the option of dying either, since dying in itself is a checkpoint restart.

[quote="honorableJay"]2) Ivy's vines that block the exit door in the Bio building can be crossed with the line launcher when you leave (climb the fountain and shoot for the door) and when you have to come back for the Titan Ivy fight (stand in the wall on the left, stay to the right, walk to the edge spamming attack and the launcher should kick in right before you drop).[/quote]This is in the run, though the latter is different; I used the corner closest to the door to simply jump the plant instead.

[quote="honorableJay"]The quickest way to take anyone down from behind is a quick batarang/ground pound since the overall animation times are quicker than a silent takedown (works great when freeing Gordon from Harley). [/quote]Agreed, but Harley?  I'd have to see it first.  I can never be sure how well armed thugs can see and hear.

[quote="honorableJay"]The very first booby-trapped Gargoyle room (right before nightmare 3) does NOT require you to take out any of the guards. You only have to disable the security terminal. The quickest way I found to do this is to glide kick/pound the first guard from the vent, then immediately jump to any gargoyle in range. Glide from the gargoyle to the center office, then drop down on the stairs opposite of the terminal. With the range booster you can take out the terminal even if a goon is standing there (doesn't notice you for some reason) then exit the room without touching anyone else (most are still distracted from the first goon you took out). [/quote]I just hop the rail after the glide kick, wait for the thugs to pass through the console room, then use the Line Launcher to get there to avoid being seen.  Most of the time, you have more than long enough to decrypt the console and escape seamlessly.  The latter doesn't always hold true, though.  There's also a weird enemy AI quirk that causes me to wait before using the Line Launcher in that if I stay on the vent's side long enough, the enemies pass by where I need to go, but if I line launch too early, they "lose sight" of me and someone ends up guarding the console, which I didn't want in the run.  I didn't know there was an angle at which you could get the console from far off though.  I guess I always thought I'd get noticed trying to break the console with a goon there.  I always hide in the inner corner of the console side anyway so I have maximum time to re-think my strategy if the enemies are in a bad position afterward.

One thing I do for "stealth" situations in the second half of the game is use the quick Batclaw in direct combat.  A fight always brings everyone to Batman, and if one is good enough with the claw, you have the health needed, and the environment is well-suited (plenty of ways to yank enemies off of edges), you can usually claw and/or ground pound everyone faster than finishing by other means.  Interestingly enough, a missed claw or batarang is louder than one that hits.  Kinda weird, but I'll take it. :)

honorableJay

2010-01-30 11:04:52 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

Quote from Master ZED:

You could read my notes first. I posted them for a reason. :\

I blame that on juggling two different threads for the same game Smiley

I actually did grab your notes, but didn't get to read all the way through it. As for saving Gordon, the first two thugs can easily be taken out with the quick batarangs then ground pounds. On easy you don't alert anybody else, but I can't guarantee it'll work on Hard (I'll know soon enough heh). I actually use that tactic everywhere I have to take out an armed thug if I don't have the high ground and isn't alarmed.

Now if only we could get the other guys in the PC thread for this game to start posting here I won't get so confused Wink

honorableJay

Edit history:

honorableJay: 2010-02-02 12:22:47 am

2010-02-01 02:30:38 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

I'm gettin some test segments together for a possible segmented run. They're gonna be a bit rough, but at least it'll give me a better idea of how to break everything up. Once I get youtube to accept them (would be nice if they'd add support for h.264 codecs) I'll post em here.

For right now they're gonna be done on easy for the routes. I might change to Hard, but I'm debating if that's worth it since time will be wasted on the bosses.

Segmented Playlist

Seg 1: covers the entire Intensive treatment section up until finding Boles.
Seg 2: goes from batmobile to the start of nightmare 1
Seg 3: nightmare 1 to the auto-save right after getting the batclaw
Seg 4: continues up to the start of nightmare 2
Seg 5: starts nightmare 2 and finishes after rescuing the warden
Seg 6: starts after the warden and ends after taking down Harley

more info once I get the rest planned out

Paraxade

2010-02-01 02:43:28 pm

so er.. how do you plan on segmenting it when you can't turn off autosave and there's no manual save?

honorableJay

2010-02-01 04:06:55 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

Well, I'll have to segment around the autosaves. I already have a system to backup/restore for segmenting (running pc version so it's a bit easier than consoles) although it is tedious. I have to wait for the game to save, then copy that save to a separate folder (making sure to name the folder so I know what it's for). Once I have to retry a segment, I have to back out to the main menu (where it says click to start) then alt+tab, copy the old save over, go back into the game and try again. Since the game caches saves, copying the save over while playing or in the "Select Save" menu won't actually revert me to an earlier point.

sshplur

2010-02-02 12:09:31 am

Yeah, you just back up the save somewhere else and then copy it back in to redo the segment.

bloodisblue

2010-02-02 06:17:55 pm

You're run looks good so far honorableJay (I'm done watching segment 2). Plus could you post how you are overiding the autosave system? I tried to find it in my appdata folder but it wasn't there Sad

Also I hope you don't mind but I'm posting my ideas/critiques/comments on every segment I've watched to make the run faster.

honorableJay

Edit history:

honorableJay: 2010-02-02 10:26:56 pm

2010-02-02 09:50:58 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

Post as many comments as possible, the more the merrier. As for the autosave feature, I'm using and abusing it heh. If you goto your My Documents folder you should have an Eidos folder where all of your saves are kept. Inside that you'll find a numbered folder that is supposed to be some sort of ID your Windows Live account is given. Inside that folder are your actual save files (named Save0.sgd through Save3.sgd). Once the game auto-saves I can begin/end a segment by copying/pasting the save files. It can get very tedious since I always have to back out to the start screen.

I'll comment on your comments here to keep things more organized Wink

A lot of those fights were fugly, but that will be cleaned up once I really hammer down. The wall trick at nightmare 1 I can never get to work. I'm not sure why, but as soon as that gel explodes Batman always winces no matter how far away I am. The only thing I can think of would be to do a roll right as it goes off and hope I can immediately jump the gap. The second goon squad at Boles would've gone better if the map geometry didn't block one of my batarangs (I tried to get the first two guards in one hit but got blocked by the railing). In the medical building normally that fight goes a lot better (the first one right after getting in) but for some reason they were packin shotguns this time around. If they have machine guns it's much quicker (the shotguns stun and stop anything I'm doing). Right after nightmare 1, from what I understand, you can skip the 3rd goon since he's so far back, but if you try to skip them all you get the dreaded "secure area" when you try to exit. I'll check again, but I doubt it'll work Sad

Post as many comments as possible, the more the merrier. As for the autosave feature, I'm using and abusing it heh. If you goto your My Documents folder you should have an Eidos folder where all of your saves are kept. Inside that you'll find a numbered folder that is supposed to be some sort of ID your Windows Live account is given. Inside that folder are your actual save files (named Save0.sgd through Save3.sgd). Once the game auto-saves I can begin/end a segment by copying/pasting the save files. It can get very tedious since I always have to back out to the start screen.

I'll comment on your comments here to keep things more organized ;)

A lot of those fights were fugly, but that will be cleaned up once I really hammer down. The wall trick at nightmare 1 I can never get to work. I'm not sure why, but as soon as that gel explodes Batman always winces no matter how far away I am. The only thing I can think of would be to do a roll right as it goes off and hope I can immediately jump the gap. The second goon squad at Boles would've gone better if the map geometry didn't block one of my batarangs (I tried to get the first two guards in one hit but got blocked by the railing). In the medical building normally that fight goes a lot better (the first one right after getting in) but for some reason they were packin shotguns this time around. If they have machine guns it's much quicker (the shotguns stun and stop anything I'm doing). Right after nightmare 1, from what I understand, you can skip the 3rd goon since he's so far back, but if you try to skip them all you get the dreaded "secure area" when you try to exit. I'll check again, but I doubt it'll work :(

honorableJay

Edit history:

honorableJay: 2010-02-03 12:23:21 am

2010-02-02 11:51:32 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

Just confirmed a few things

1) For me to get the wall jump trick in nightmare 1 to work, I have to roll as soon as I set off the gel. Doing so skips the wince animation an lets me jump through Scarecrow's sight.

2) Immediately after nightmare 1 you can skip all 3 baddies, but there's a time penalty since you have to wait for them all to re-awaken and lose track of Batman before the door can be opened (while they're stunned you get "secure area"). I'm assuming it's quicker by a hair to just knock the two out and continue.

3) To skip talking to Ivy (before Killer Croc), you must get to the underground waterway area (last one the game let's you get to) then do a checkpoint restart as soon as you walk through the door. So for single segment this trick is out, but for a segmented run it saves almost 20 seconds.

Now I'm simply trying to figure out what other skills I could possibly get to save more time. Combo Batarang actually does help in a few of the later fights since it'll knock down a few enemies and let me ground pound them while keeping the combo going. This should save time since I'll keep getting critical hits. I'd like to get the upgrade for earlier criticals, but that means I have to waste more upgrades just to unlock it. I know it's been said that the Combo Batarang is useless for an easy run, but since a few of the later fights have so many enemies that can't be skipped (Titan/goon fight after shutting down the water pumps), I'm gonna lean towards it helping more than hurting (since by the time I even get it I'll have free upgrades to burn).

I'm also debating whether or not it's worth it to wait for the twin titans to destroy the tanks for me or just take em out as fast as possible by tanking them in one of the corners then manually destroying the tanks. If I can get them to destroy the tanks while beating each other up then I'll do it, but waiting for them to do so can take a long time.

Just confirmed a few things

1) For me to get the wall jump trick in nightmare 1 to work, I have to roll as soon as I set off the gel. Doing so skips the wince animation an lets me jump through Scarecrow's sight.

2) Immediately after nightmare 1 you can skip all 3 baddies, but there's a time penalty since you have to wait for them all to re-awaken and lose track of Batman before the door can be opened (while they're stunned you get "secure area"). I'm assuming it's quicker by a hair to just knock the two out and continue.

3) To skip talking to Ivy (before Killer Croc), you must get to the underground waterway area (last one the game let's you get to) then do a checkpoint restart as soon as you walk through the door. So for single segment this trick is out, but for a segmented run it saves almost 20 seconds.

Now I'm simply trying to figure out what other skills I could possibly get to save more time. Combo Batarang actually does help in a few of the later fights since it'll knock down a few enemies and let me ground pound them while keeping the combo going. This should save time since I'll keep getting critical hits. I'd like to get the upgrade for earlier criticals, but that means I have to waste more upgrades just to unlock it. I know it's been said that the Combo Batarang is useless for an easy run, but since a few of the later fights have so many enemies that can't be skipped (Titan/goon fight after shutting down the water pumps), I'm gonna lean towards it helping more than hurting (since by the time I even get it I'll have free upgrades to burn).

I'm also debating whether or not it's worth it to wait for the twin titans to destroy the tanks for me or just take em out as fast as possible by tanking them in one of the corners then manually destroying the tanks. If I can get them to destroy the tanks while beating each other up then I'll do it, but waiting for them to do so can take a long time.

Master ZED

2010-02-03 02:57:04 am

Quote from honorableJay:

2) Immediately after nightmare 1 you can skip all 3 baddies, but there's a time penalty since you have to wait for them all to re-awaken and lose track of Batman before the door can be opened (while they're stunned you get "secure area"). I'm assuming it's quicker by a hair to just knock the two out and continue.

In a single segment, definitely, as IIRC, I've had running past all three after using the gel fail at least once. Segmented would just require luck manipulation.

Quote from honorableJay:

Now I'm simply trying to figure out what other skills I could possibly get to save more time. Combo Batarang actually does help in a few of the later fights since it'll knock down a few enemies and let me ground pound them while keeping the combo going.

As has been indicated, the enemies are so weak on Easy that even ground pounds are rarely worth it. I just use them when I'm waiting for other thugs to get up so I can Crit the rest.

Quote from honorableJay:

This should save time since I'll keep getting critical hits. I'd like to get the upgrade for earlier criticals, but that means I have to waste more upgrades just to unlock it.

You mean Throws and Instant Takedowns, to clarify. Besides, that powerup is crap anyway, as it only works for the first Throw/Takedown. It's definitely a powerup you only want if nothing else would be of any serious help.

Quote from honorableJay:

I know it's been said that the Combo Batarang is useless for an easy run, but since a few of the later fights have so many enemies that can't be skipped (Titan/goon fight after shutting down the water pumps), I'm gonna lean towards it helping more than hurting (since by the time I even get it I'll have free upgrades to burn).

Ehhhh, I'm not sure about that fight, but if you're gonna take out the goons guarding the first door to the Visitor Center (the ones with the Monster Sale sign), it *might* help. Those thugs are always aware of Batman's presence AFAIK, so you need a Combo Batarang or RCB to knock them down. At the same time, I think Combo Batarang still works without the powerup, y'know, aside from the combo continuation. You may want to play around under both conditions first before you commit an upgrade to this idea.

Quote from honorableJay:

I'm also debating whether or not it's worth it to wait for the twin titans to destroy the tanks for me or just take em out as fast as possible by tanking them in one of the corners then manually destroying the tanks. If I can get them to destroy the tanks while beating each other up then I'll do it, but waiting for them to do so can take a long time.

AFAIK, they always start off with rams, one right after the other. In the run I submitted, as I recall, I run between the tanks and the second Titan and batarang him during his guaranteed charge so he destroys the tanks and I can attack him ASAP afterward. Maybe it's not the absolute fastest route, but I find there's less room for error in the tactic since if I attack the first Titan immediately, chances are the crossfire won't include the tanks without sometimes costly manipulation.

Also, did not know about that Scarecrow 1 trick. Then again, a LOT more data I'm missing is probably going to come out of the verification process (rather, I'm banking on it).

[quote="honorableJay"]2) Immediately after nightmare 1 you can skip all 3 baddies, but there's a time penalty since you have to wait for them all to re-awaken and lose track of Batman before the door can be opened (while they're stunned you get "secure area"). I'm assuming it's quicker by a hair to just knock the two out and continue.[/quote]In a single segment, definitely, as IIRC, I've had running past all three after using the gel fail at least once.  Segmented would just require luck manipulation.

[quote="honorableJay"]Now I'm simply trying to figure out what other skills I could possibly get to save more time. Combo Batarang actually does help in a few of the later fights since it'll knock down a few enemies and let me ground pound them while keeping the combo going.[/quote]As has been indicated, the enemies are so weak on Easy that even ground pounds are rarely worth it.  I just use them when I'm waiting for other thugs to get up so I can Crit the rest.

[quote="honorableJay"]This should save time since I'll keep getting critical hits. I'd like to get the upgrade for earlier criticals, but that means I have to waste more upgrades just to unlock it.[/quote]You mean Throws and Instant Takedowns, to clarify.  Besides, that powerup is crap anyway, as it only works for the first Throw/Takedown.  It's definitely a powerup you only want if nothing else would be of any serious help.

[quote="honorableJay"]I know it's been said that the Combo Batarang is useless for an easy run, but since a few of the later fights have so many enemies that can't be skipped (Titan/goon fight after shutting down the water pumps), I'm gonna lean towards it helping more than hurting (since by the time I even get it I'll have free upgrades to burn).[/quote]Ehhhh, I'm not sure about that fight, but if you're gonna take out the goons guarding the first door to the Visitor Center (the ones with the Monster Sale sign), it *might* help.  Those thugs are always aware of Batman's presence AFAIK, so you need a Combo Batarang or RCB to knock them down.  At the same time, I think Combo Batarang still works without the powerup, y'know, [i]aside[/i] from the combo continuation.  You may want to play around under both conditions first before you commit an upgrade to this idea.

[quote="honorableJay"]I'm also debating whether or not it's worth it to wait for the twin titans to destroy the tanks for me or just take em out as fast as possible by tanking them in one of the corners then manually destroying the tanks. If I can get them to destroy the tanks while beating each other up then I'll do it, but waiting for them to do so can take a long time.
[/quote]AFAIK, they always start off with rams, one right after the other.  In the run I submitted, as I recall, I run between the tanks and the second Titan and batarang him during his guaranteed charge so he destroys the tanks and I can attack him ASAP afterward.  Maybe it's not the absolute fastest route, but I find there's less room for error in the tactic since if I attack the first Titan immediately, chances are the crossfire won't include the tanks without sometimes costly manipulation.

Also, did not know about that Scarecrow 1 trick.  Then again, a LOT more data I'm missing is probably going to come out of the verification process (rather, I'm banking on it).

honorableJay

2010-02-03 10:33:11 am

The Dork Knight himself.

Well, getting the Combo Batarang can't really hurt. I already will have triple bats, batarant stun, both crypto upgrades, and combo criticals. I think the bonus comes from the fact that the combo batarang will stun whoever you hit while fighting.

I forgot to mention before that the gel wince can be ignored if you do a roll right as you set it off, so for any wall that you can walk past after it's destroyed (i.e. the wall isn't next to a ledge) doing the roll is overall faster. It seems the roll can cancel a lot of actions/animations. The ones that save the most time are the gel wince, turning around, and ground pounds. If there are others I can't remember them off the top of my head.

I found one trick for the Harley fight that might be useful if I can really manipulate it. The first 4 guys you fight can be stunned with the gel. With the right placement you can knock someone over the railing (in my test run the 4th goon gets blown over the rails). It's possible to blow 2 out of the first 4 right over the railing, but I'm not sure about the rest of the goons.

Well, getting the Combo Batarang can't really hurt. I already will have triple bats, batarant stun, both crypto upgrades, and combo criticals. I think the bonus comes from the fact that the combo batarang will stun whoever you hit while fighting.

I forgot to mention before that the gel wince can be ignored if you do a roll right as you set it off, so for any wall that you can walk past after it's destroyed (i.e. the wall isn't next to a ledge) doing the roll is overall faster. It seems the roll can cancel a lot of actions/animations. The ones that save the most time are the gel wince, turning around, and ground pounds. If there are others I can't remember them off the top of my head.

I found one trick for the Harley fight that might be useful if I can really manipulate it. The first 4 guys you fight can be stunned with the gel. With the right placement you can knock someone over the railing (in my test run the 4th goon gets blown over the rails). It's possible to blow 2 out of the first 4 right over the railing, but I'm not sure about the rest of the goons.

Master ZED

2010-02-03 03:18:44 pm

Quote from honorableJay:

I forgot to mention before that the gel wince can be ignored if you do a roll right as you set it off, so for any wall that you can walk past after it's destroyed (i.e. the wall isn't next to a ledge) doing the roll is overall faster. It seems the roll can cancel a lot of actions/animations. The ones that save the most time are the gel wince, turning around, and ground pounds. If there are others I can't remember them off the top of my head.

I can see the use for Scarecrow 1, but not really anywhere else. Batman loses forward momentum at the end of the roll about equivalent to the time lost to a Gel flinch, maybe more (unless I'm an idiot and you can run out of that part). I can't think of any other opportunity to make use of that particular stun evasion technique off the top of my head. For turning around, maybe when you first get the Sequencer that would be useful (that turn-around is so awkward for me), and I'm not sure if the ground pound roll would really help either, anywhere, unless you needed time to think in a fight.

Quote from honorableJay:

I found one trick for the Harley fight that might be useful if I can really manipulate it. The first 4 guys you fight can be stunned with the gel. With the right placement you can knock someone over the railing (in my test run the 4th goon gets blown over the rails). It's possible to blow 2 out of the first 4 right over the railing, but I'm not sure about the rest of the goons.

Every time I think I know how to use the Gel in that fight after the first use, I forget before I can write it down. Anyway, you have to be careful with that first use anyway, since the first thugs can come out of the center door if you're too close to the right-hand railing too soon, and then you lose the gel opportunity. If you could use the Combo Batarang, and I imagine you could on Hard due to larger availability of EXP, it might be faster than the gel to summon the first wave through the center door and use CB for the stun, depending on how long it takes to get CB to launch the triple variant.

Oh, and while we're on the subject of Penitentiary, what would you suggest for avoiding scanner repetition on doors?

[quote="honorableJay"]I forgot to mention before that the gel wince can be ignored if you do a roll right as you set it off, so for any wall that you can walk past after it's destroyed (i.e. the wall isn't next to a ledge) doing the roll is overall faster. It seems the roll can cancel a lot of actions/animations. The ones that save the most time are the gel wince, turning around, and ground pounds. If there are others I can't remember them off the top of my head. [/quote]I can see the use for Scarecrow 1, but not really anywhere else.  Batman loses forward momentum at the end of the roll about equivalent to the time lost to a Gel flinch, maybe more (unless I'm an idiot and you can run out of that part).  I can't think of any other opportunity to make use of that particular stun evasion technique off the top of my head.  For turning around, maybe when you first get the Sequencer that would be useful (that turn-around is so awkward for me), and I'm not sure if the ground pound roll would really help either, anywhere, unless you needed time to think in a fight.

[quote="honorableJay"]I found one trick for the Harley fight that might be useful if I can really manipulate it. The first 4 guys you fight can be stunned with the gel. With the right placement you can knock someone over the railing (in my test run the 4th goon gets blown over the rails). It's possible to blow 2 out of the first 4 right over the railing, but I'm not sure about the rest of the goons.
[/quote]Every time I think I know how to use the Gel in that fight after the first use, I forget before I can write it down.  Anyway, you have to be careful with that first use anyway, since the first thugs can come out of the center door if you're too close to the right-hand railing too soon, and then you lose the gel opportunity.  If you could use the Combo Batarang, and I imagine you could on Hard due to larger availability of EXP, it might be faster than the gel to summon the first wave through the center door and use CB for the stun, depending on how long it takes to get CB to launch the triple variant.

Oh, and while we're on the subject of Penitentiary, what would you suggest for avoiding scanner repetition on doors?

honorableJay

2010-02-03 10:06:29 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

For the doors? Only thing I can think of would be to make sure you stand in front of it and don't move. If you have to, allow one of the inmates to get right up to the door before pounding on them. For the one that I know of that jumps out right at the door, you can launch yourself forward with a jumpkick. This way, he gets hit immediately, and the time taken for the ground pound is negated since you have to wait for the door anyway (which should trigger as soon as you kick the guy).

The biggest use I've found for using the roll to cancel ground pounds is for the crazies that you can't avoid. The other would be to get yourself moving if you have to use a ground pound to finish a fight. Granted it'll be harder for you since you're doing it on the console, but the quicker you get moving the better. My biggest gripe with the roll is that constant roll spamming doesn't actually move you forward. For some odd reason if you try to chain a few in a row (by far the fastest ground moving method) Batman starts to move to the left just enough to completely mess you up after about the 3rd roll.

The very last Harley fight so far I've ONLY had the initial spawn from the right side. Never have I seen it come from the center or left (could be just a diff between console and pc?). In fact, the only spawns I get are from the left or right (and always starting from the right). As for other uses of the gel, here's what I'm thinking: place the first gel on the ground, move over to the left side railing, det the gel to stun/kill the first 4 and immediately lay another one down, knock out the remaining goons, then det the second gel after the next wave tries to come into the center ring. This does assume a few things, namely that you'll have enough time and that the center floor won't get turned on before the second wave hits. I'll have to test it and see what I come up with.

For the doors? Only thing I can think of would be to make sure you stand in front of it and don't move. If you have to, allow one of the inmates to get right up to the door before pounding on them. For the one that I know of that jumps out right at the door, you can launch yourself forward with a jumpkick. This way, he gets hit immediately, and the time taken for the ground pound is negated since you have to wait for the door anyway (which should trigger as soon as you kick the guy).

The biggest use I've found for using the roll to cancel ground pounds is for the crazies that you can't avoid. The other would be to get yourself moving if you have to use a ground pound to finish a fight. Granted it'll be harder for you since you're doing it on the console, but the quicker you get moving the better. My biggest gripe with the roll is that constant roll spamming doesn't actually move you forward. For some odd reason if you try to chain a few in a row (by far the fastest ground moving method) Batman starts to move to the left just enough to completely mess you up after about the 3rd roll.

The very last Harley fight so far I've ONLY had the initial spawn from the right side. Never have I seen it come from the center or left (could be just a diff between console and pc?). In fact, the only spawns I get are from the left or right (and always starting from the right). As for other uses of the gel, here's what I'm thinking: place the first gel on the ground, move over to the left side railing, det the gel to stun/kill the first 4 and immediately lay another one down, knock out the remaining goons, then det the second gel after the next wave tries to come into the center ring. This does assume a few things, namely that you'll have enough time and that the center floor won't get turned on before the second wave hits. I'll have to test it and see what I come up with.

sshplur

2010-02-04 01:42:09 am

Quote from honorableJay:

2) Immediately after nightmare 1 you can skip all 3 baddies, but there's a time penalty since you have to wait for them all to re-awaken and lose track of Batman before the door can be opened (while they're stunned you get "secure area"). I'm assuming it's quicker by a hair to just knock the two out and continue.

You don't need to touch them, just run straight past them as soon as they bust open the door and you can continue. If you linger around for too long, the 'Secure Area' message will show up

And how consistently can you do the Scarecrow 1 trick? I only get it about 20% of the time, even with roll canceling the Gel explosion.

Master ZED

2010-02-04 05:31:28 pm

Quote from honorableJay:

3) To skip talking to Ivy (before Killer Croc), you must get to the underground waterway area (last one the game let's you get to) then do a checkpoint restart as soon as you walk through the door. So for single segment this trick is out, but for a segmented run it saves almost 20 seconds.

It's also out for any 100% runs; the three Joker Teeth on the roof of IT in Arkham North will never show up if you use this sequence break, leaving you hanging at game's end by exactly one unsolvable riddle.

honorableJay

Edit history:

honorableJay: 2010-02-05 11:48:23 am

2010-02-04 06:19:26 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

Oh yeah, completely forgot about 100% runs.

Btw, I feel like an idiot for not even trying to skip those 3 goons after nightmare 1. Even getting swiped 3 times by the knife goon while trying to run past (prick blocked me against the wall) I was still able to just continue on.

As for the wall trick, this might give some insight on how it works. Mind you I just uploaded this so it might still be processing (*edit* it's live now), but here's how the trick works. When you roll, the pillar surrounding the wall blocks Scarecrow from seeing you, and the jump has to be done before he tries to look on the right side of the non-existent wall. I've found you have the most success when he's staring at the far right building when you det the gel.

**Edit**
So far I've got my test run up through nightmare 3, so after work tomorrow (work until 10pm tonight then back in at 6am tomorrow, lovely) I'll encode and upload them. Most are pretty ugly, but that'll be cleaned up later.

Oh yeah, completely forgot about 100% runs.

Btw, I feel like an idiot for not even trying to skip those 3 goons after nightmare 1. Even getting swiped 3 times by the knife goon while trying to run past (prick blocked me against the wall) I was still able to just continue on.

As for the wall trick, [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmi_r9SaEjY]this might give some insight on how it works[/url]. Mind you I just uploaded this so it might still be processing (*edit* it's live now), but here's how the trick works. When you roll, the pillar surrounding the wall blocks Scarecrow from seeing you, and the jump has to be done before he tries to look on the right side of the non-existent wall. I've found you have the most success when he's staring at the far right building when you det the gel.

**Edit**
So far I've got my test run up through nightmare 3, so after work tomorrow (work until 10pm tonight then back in at 6am tomorrow, lovely) I'll encode and upload them. Most are pretty ugly, but that'll be cleaned up later.

bloodisblue

2010-02-05 03:29:59 pm

Nice I'm looking forward to them. That trick you found with scarecrow seems much easier to pull off then what I found.

Also I found out a *slight* speed up early in the game at the cost of 10 potential exp.

On the pair of two guards you do a running kick on one, then do the ground takedown on him immediatly. Then combo that into a one punch KO on the other guard. This gets a combo of 5 compared to six but saves about 3ish seconds per pair of guards and is easier to perform.

Also on the timed "boss" fight early on I found that it is possible to get a combo of around 20 or more by hitting twice then dodging over the "boss" the only problem is that if he charges the slowdown seems to affect how long he lasts.

honorableJay

2010-02-06 07:20:42 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

Okay, I'm uploading the next 3 segments to youtube now (just check the playlist in my sig). It'll be a bit before they're ready, but here's what they cover:

Seg 7: From Harley through the Twin Titans
Seg 8: From Twins until Nightmare 3
Seg 9: Nightmare 3 until Killer Croc

The aviary room is oh so much fun. I want to try another route, but everytime I try to just zip from below I'm seen (which is an immediate restart). If anybody knows of a way to get to the control room directly from the low right of the room then I'm all ears. The twins didn't go so bad, although it's crap that one of them failed to destroy the tanks for me. I almost forgot to do the checkpoint restart to skip Ivy, so yeah that looks oh so pretty. Getting lost in the vent is another good one (was talking to my gf about possible time savers). What else went wrong: crazies didn't wanna play nice, I still haven't gotten the hang of using the line launcher, I hate guns, I hate nightmare 3, and I hate loading icons Smiley

Master ZED

2010-02-06 11:17:54 pm

Quote from honorableJay:

The aviary room is oh so much fun. I want to try another route, but everytime I try to just zip from below I'm seen (which is an immediate restart). If anybody knows of a way to get to the control room directly from the low right of the room then I'm all ears.

It's not from the low right, but see what you can do with this.

Attachment:

Aviary.wmv