Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door improvement

2010-05-10 12:06:38 am

Very impressive, to say the least. A few weeks ago I was planning on speedrunning this game myself, but I quit after getting to Hooktail's Castle since I decided it just wasn't a game I was going to have fun speedrunning.

But the game itself, Paper Mario TTYD, is without question on my top 5 favorite games of all time list, and having some experience in trying to speedrun this game myself, I have to say your first segment was amazing.

I like how you implemented the jumps before the speech bubble popped up right before the crump fight and right before getting to Goombella. While a small trick, it's nice and I'm glad you implemented it flawlessly.

Reflecting attacks was also something noticeably missing from Mark Wong's run, and it's nice to see you do it here.

Everything else is great, and although your first segment is pretty short, i would say it's close if not perfect. I'm expecting great things from this, so keep up the good work!

Almo

2010-05-10 08:55:56 am

Quote from Yamasaur:

Very impressive, to say the least. A few weeks ago I was planning on speedrunning this game myself, but I quit after getting to Hooktail's Castle since I decided it just wasn't a game I was going to have fun speedrunning.

But the game itself, Paper Mario TTYD, is without question on my top 5 favorite games of all time list, and having some experience in trying to speedrun this game myself, I have to say your first segment was amazing.

I like how you implemented the jumps before the speech bubble popped up right before the crump fight and right before getting to Goombella. While a small trick, it's nice and I'm glad you implemented it flawlessly.

Reflecting attacks was also something noticeably missing from Mark Wong's run, and it's nice to see you do it here.

Everything else is great, and although your first segment is pretty short, i would say it's close if not perfect. I'm expecting great things from this, so keep up the good work!

what does jumping before the text even do? iirc after the crump battle you just end up in the same spot every time so i don't see any benefit from it other than crump has slightly less time to get to you when he runs. that saves not even a second. Unless i'm totally missing something?

Also i wanted to see how your run held up and decided to use your strategy and practice a speed run myself (trying to figure out what can be improved upon), and after the first chapter + peach and bowser segments, my timer is at 48 minutes. I did make several mistakes, only minor though, since i'm not recording or anything, but i'd say it's definitely possible to get down to 46 or maybe even 45 minutes at this point with your strategy in full use. It's a really great route and i'm having trouble finding things that can be improved upon lol

If anything gets changed for future runs (assuming yours beats Mark's), it's going to have to be a big change in strategy and not something minor that adds up to a lot like you are currently doing (jumping in the background, purposefully failing attacks, other stuff Mark didn't do), which is probably why i'm having trouble finding things that can be improved.

I can't wait to see the second segment recorded, because i had a really annoying time with that one since the fuzzies kept changing locations in the corridors whenever i picked up 3 or 4 FP, so I had to react where they were. This segment was more difficult than i thought it would be. Tongue

[quote="Yamasaur"]
Very impressive, to say the least. A few weeks ago I was planning on speedrunning this game myself, but I quit after getting to Hooktail's Castle since I decided it just wasn't a game I was going to have fun speedrunning.

But the game itself, Paper Mario TTYD, is without question on my top 5 favorite games of all time list, and having some experience in trying to speedrun this game myself, I have to say your first segment was amazing.

I like how you implemented the jumps before the speech bubble popped up right before the crump fight and right before getting to Goombella. While a small trick, it's nice and I'm glad you implemented it flawlessly.

Reflecting attacks was also something noticeably missing from Mark Wong's run, and it's nice to see you do it here.

Everything else is great, and although your first segment is pretty short, i would say it's close if not perfect. I'm expecting great things from this, so keep up the good work!
[/quote]

what does jumping before the text even do? iirc after the crump battle you just end up in the same spot every time so i don't see any benefit from it other than crump has slightly less time to get to you when he runs. that saves not even a second. Unless i'm totally missing something?

Also i wanted to see how your run held up and decided to use your strategy and practice a speed run myself (trying to figure out what can be improved upon), and after the first chapter + peach and bowser segments, my timer is at 48 minutes. I did make several mistakes, only minor though, since i'm not recording or anything, but i'd say it's definitely possible to get down to 46 or maybe even 45 minutes at this point with your strategy in full use. It's a really great route and i'm having trouble finding things that can be improved upon lol

If anything gets changed for future runs (assuming yours beats Mark's), it's going to have to be a big change in strategy and not something minor that adds up to a lot like you are currently doing (jumping in the background, purposefully failing attacks, other stuff Mark didn't do), which is probably why i'm having trouble finding things that can be improved.

I can't wait to see the second segment recorded, because i had a really annoying time with that one since the fuzzies kept changing locations in the corridors whenever i picked up 3 or 4 FP, so I had to react where they were. This segment was more difficult than i thought it would be. :P

Hariyama465

2010-05-10 12:07:21 pm

Bah. The fuzzies in that tunnel. I've had the most ridiculous luck with those, I had multiple attempts where I would just go to one side of the screen (top or bottom) and just hold left/right and they didn't bother me at all.

But those were few and far between. I don't think there's any consistent trick to dodging them except just getting lucky with their placement, since it's completely random and all.

Almo

2010-05-10 12:55:19 pm

Well that's what i did. I could take the bottom "sidewalk" on the right side, and the top one on the left side, but I would go all the way on the bottom one, then when travelling back, the second fuzzy would be on my side so i had to cross over. It was annoying lol, and I actually messed up a few times when i did get lucky and got 4FP from one of the battles. The gold fuzzy battle i only did once and had no mistakes, thank god.

I'm officially done with this semester of school and am now on summer break, so i'll probably get around to chapter 2 tonight. lol i'm just using miles strategy, i just want to get an estimate of what his final time will be when he finishes.

Also are boo sheets and having missed attacks animations faster or slower than swapping out partners+superguard animations? i checked his coin count and there's more than enough to buy a few, don't know if it would be worth the time though.

Hariyama465

2010-05-10 01:01:31 pm

Wait, just to clarify things, is Miles still working on a run to submit to SDA? And your run, is it just casual or do you want to submit one as well?

Also I'm sure that it's probably not worth the time to get boo sheets.

Miles

2010-05-10 01:26:15 pm

Thanks for all of the compliments on the first segment. Smiley

Hopefully I can finish the next one soon.

Quote from I_eat_tables:

So has there been any progress on segment 2? I'm looking forward to this run, even if it's probably going to take a year or so to perfect.

Sorry for the late reply. >_> I'm working on it a lot, but a lot of things in the segment require luck and they all hate me.

Also I'm now ending the segment in Shhwonk Fortress instead of in Petalburg; saving in Shhwonk is about 1.6 seconds faster, and cuts about a minute off at the end of the (heavily luck-based) segment. I just hope I don't suffer from the exta minute in the next segment. :\

Quote from Yamasaur:

Everything else is great, and although your first segment is pretty short, i would say it's close if not perfect.

That was likely the second-longest segment in the run. <_<

Quote from Shura:

what does jumping before the text even do? iirc after the crump battle you just end up in the same spot every time so i don't see any benefit from it other than crump has slightly less time to get to you when he runs. that saves not even a second.

Every second counts!

Quote from Shura:

Also i wanted to see how your run held up and decided to use your strategy and practice a speed run myself (trying to figure out what can be improved upon), and after the first chapter + peach and bowser segments, my timer is at 48 minutes. I did make several mistakes, only minor though, since i'm not recording or anything, but i'd say it's definitely possible to get down to 46 or maybe even 45 minutes at this point with your strategy in full use.

I've gotten 46:22 in a practice run for Chapter 1. I'm not sure how much that'll be lowered in the final run.

Quote from Shura:

If anything gets changed for future runs (assuming yours beats Mark's), it's going to have to be a big change in strategy and not something minor that adds up to a lot like you are currently doing (jumping in the background, purposefully failing attacks, other stuff Mark didn't do), which is probably why i'm having trouble finding things that can be improved.

There are a lot of minor changes, though, and some not-so-minor (putting off Mega Rush, using Gale Force, paying for Danger Mario with the slots, etc.).

Quote from Shura:

I can't wait to see the second segment recorded, because i had a really annoying time with that one since the fuzzies kept changing locations in the corridors whenever i picked up 3 or 4 FP, so I had to react where they were. This segment was more difficult than i thought it would be. Tongue

Those usually aren't a problem, personally; it's actually getting the 4 FP in the first place.

Quote:

Also are boo sheets and having missed attacks animations faster or slower than swapping out partners+superguard animations? i checked his coin count and there's more than enough to buy a few, don't know if it would be worth the time though.

I'm sure having to obtain a Boo Sheet and using it in battle would negate any gain from the enemy missing.

Thanks for all of the compliments on the first segment. :) Hopefully I can finish the next one soon.

[quote="I_eat_tables"]
So has there been any progress on segment 2? I'm looking forward to this run, even if it's probably going to take a year or so to perfect.
[/quote]

Sorry for the late reply. >_> I'm working on it a lot, but a lot of things in the segment require luck and they all hate me.

Also I'm now ending the segment in Shhwonk Fortress instead of in Petalburg; saving in Shhwonk is about 1.6 seconds faster, and cuts about a minute off at the end of the (heavily luck-based) segment. I just hope I don't suffer from the exta minute in the next segment. :\

[quote="Yamasaur"]
Everything else is great, and although your first segment is pretty short, i would say it's close if not perfect.
[/quote]

That was likely the second-longest segment in the run. <_<

[quote="Shura"]
what does jumping before the text even do? iirc after the crump battle you just end up in the same spot every time so i don't see any benefit from it other than crump has slightly less time to get to you when he runs. that saves not even a second.
[/quote]

Every second counts!

[quote="Shura"]
Also i wanted to see how your run held up and decided to use your strategy and practice a speed run myself (trying to figure out what can be improved upon), and after the first chapter + peach and bowser segments, my timer is at 48 minutes. I did make several mistakes, only minor though, since i'm not recording or anything, but i'd say it's definitely possible to get down to 46 or maybe even 45 minutes at this point with your strategy in full use. 
[/quote]

I've gotten 46:22 in a practice run for Chapter 1. I'm not sure how much that'll be lowered in the final run.

[quote="Shura"]
If anything gets changed for future runs (assuming yours beats Mark's), it's going to have to be a big change in strategy and not something minor that adds up to a lot like you are currently doing (jumping in the background, purposefully failing attacks, other stuff Mark didn't do), which is probably why i'm having trouble finding things that can be improved.
[/quote]

There are a [b]lot[/b] of minor changes, though, and some not-so-minor (putting off Mega Rush, using Gale Force, paying for Danger Mario with the slots, etc.).

[quote="Shura"]
I can't wait to see the second segment recorded, because i had a really annoying time with that one since the fuzzies kept changing locations in the corridors whenever i picked up 3 or 4 FP, so I had to react where they were. This segment was more difficult than i thought it would be. :P
[/quote]

Those usually aren't a problem, personally; it's actually getting the 4 FP in the first place.

[quote]
Also are boo sheets and having missed attacks animations faster or slower than swapping out partners+superguard animations? i checked his coin count and there's more than enough to buy a few, don't know if it would be worth the time though.
[/quote]

I'm sure having to obtain a Boo Sheet and using it in battle would negate any gain from the enemy missing.

Almo

2010-05-10 08:38:16 pm

Quote from Miles.:

Quote from Shura:

what does jumping before the text even do? iirc after the crump battle you just end up in the same spot every time so i don't see any benefit from it other than crump has slightly less time to get to you when he runs. that saves not even a second.

Every second counts!

Quote from Shura:

Also i wanted to see how your run held up and decided to use your strategy and practice a speed run myself (trying to figure out what can be improved upon), and after the first chapter + peach and bowser segments, my timer is at 48 minutes. I did make several mistakes, only minor though, since i'm not recording or anything, but i'd say it's definitely possible to get down to 46 or maybe even 45 minutes at this point with your strategy in full use.

I've gotten 46:22 in a practice run for Chapter 1. I'm not sure how much that'll be lowered in the final run.

Quote from Shura:

If anything gets changed for future runs (assuming yours beats Mark's), it's going to have to be a big change in strategy and not something minor that adds up to a lot like you are currently doing (jumping in the background, purposefully failing attacks, other stuff Mark didn't do), which is probably why i'm having trouble finding things that can be improved.

There are a lot of minor changes, though, and some not-so-minor (putting off Mega Rush, using Gale Force, paying for Danger Mario with the slots, etc.).

Quote from Shura:

I can't wait to see the second segment recorded, because i had a really annoying time with that one since the fuzzies kept changing locations in the corridors whenever i picked up 3 or 4 FP, so I had to react where they were. This segment was more difficult than i thought it would be. Tongue

Those usually aren't a problem, personally; it's actually getting the 4 FP in the first place.

Quote:

Also are boo sheets and having missed attacks animations faster or slower than swapping out partners+superguard animations? i checked his coin count and there's more than enough to buy a few, don't know if it would be worth the time though.

I'm sure having to obtain a Boo Sheet and using it in battle would negate any gain from the enemy missing.

-every second does indeed count lol

-46:22? that's a really solid time. If you beat 7:07 as a final time, would they put yours up and take Mark's down, or is there some conversion that everyone seems to be confused about?

-ahh, yeah it took me about 4 tries to get 4FP, and then the fuzzies changed locations in the hallway, so i had to re-do it and got 4FP 2 retires later. the gold fuzzy battle only took me 1 try, thank god, i'm terrible at superguarding. So i only had to reset it 6 times :/ it was a troublesome one though.

-i just brought it up because i really didn't know which way was faster. oh speaking of faster, in the prolouge there's a fire flower in the area after the 2nd battle (vs. the goombas), would getting that instead of buying it in the shop be faster and save money? or does it not matter?

really looking forward to your, dare i say, flawless run. really inspiring lol

[quote="Miles."]

[quote="Shura"]
what does jumping before the text even do? iirc after the crump battle you just end up in the same spot every time so i don't see any benefit from it other than crump has slightly less time to get to you when he runs. that saves not even a second.
[/quote]

Every second counts!

[quote="Shura"]
Also i wanted to see how your run held up and decided to use your strategy and practice a speed run myself (trying to figure out what can be improved upon), and after the first chapter + peach and bowser segments, my timer is at 48 minutes. I did make several mistakes, only minor though, since i'm not recording or anything, but i'd say it's definitely possible to get down to 46 or maybe even 45 minutes at this point with your strategy in full use. 
[/quote]

I've gotten 46:22 in a practice run for Chapter 1. I'm not sure how much that'll be lowered in the final run.

[quote="Shura"]
If anything gets changed for future runs (assuming yours beats Mark's), it's going to have to be a big change in strategy and not something minor that adds up to a lot like you are currently doing (jumping in the background, purposefully failing attacks, other stuff Mark didn't do), which is probably why i'm having trouble finding things that can be improved.
[/quote]

There are a [b]lot[/b] of minor changes, though, and some not-so-minor (putting off Mega Rush, using Gale Force, paying for Danger Mario with the slots, etc.).

[quote="Shura"]
I can't wait to see the second segment recorded, because i had a really annoying time with that one since the fuzzies kept changing locations in the corridors whenever i picked up 3 or 4 FP, so I had to react where they were. This segment was more difficult than i thought it would be. :P
[/quote]

Those usually aren't a problem, personally; it's actually getting the 4 FP in the first place.

[quote]
Also are boo sheets and having missed attacks animations faster or slower than swapping out partners+superguard animations? i checked his coin count and there's more than enough to buy a few, don't know if it would be worth the time though.
[/quote]

I'm sure having to obtain a Boo Sheet and using it in battle would negate any gain from the enemy missing.
[/quote]

-every second does indeed count lol

-46:22? that's a really solid time. If you beat 7:07 as a final time, would they put yours up and take Mark's down, or is there some conversion that everyone seems to be confused about?

-ahh, yeah it took me about 4 tries to get 4FP, and then the fuzzies changed locations in the hallway, so i had to re-do it and got 4FP 2 retires later. the gold fuzzy battle only took me 1 try, thank god, i'm terrible at superguarding. So i only had to reset it 6 times :/ it was a troublesome one though.

-i just brought it up because i really didn't know which way was faster. oh speaking of faster, in the prolouge there's a fire flower in the area after the 2nd battle (vs. the goombas), would getting that instead of buying it in the shop be faster and save money? or does it not matter?

really looking forward to your, dare i say, flawless run. really inspiring lol

Miles

2010-05-10 09:35:32 pm

Quote from Shura:

-46:22? that's a really solid time. If you beat 7:07 as a final time, would they put yours up and take Mark's down, or is there some conversion that everyone seems to be confused about?

That practice run would've been around 6:20 had I actually completed it (I got to Chapter 8 but never finished...), so I don't think there's anything to worry about. Tongue

You can't convert it since 50Hz's speed is pretty inconsistent.

Quote from Shura:

-ahh, yeah it took me about 4 tries to get 4FP, and then the fuzzies changed locations in the hallway, so i had to re-do it and got 4FP 2 retires later. the gold fuzzy battle only took me 1 try, thank god, i'm terrible at superguarding. So i only had to reset it 6 times :/ it was a troublesome one though.

Lucky.

Quote from Shura:

-i just brought it up because i really didn't know which way was faster. oh speaking of faster, in the prolouge there's a fire flower in the area after the 2nd battle (vs. the goombas), would getting that instead of buying it in the shop be faster and save money? or does it not matter?

Getting the Fire Flower there would save very little time, if any, and would mean you'd have to worry more about the Spiky Goomba's position; I really didn't feel like dealing with that.

[quote="Shura"]
-46:22? that's a really solid time. If you beat 7:07 as a final time, would they put yours up and take Mark's down, or is there some conversion that everyone seems to be confused about?
[/quote]

That practice run would've been around 6:20 had I actually completed it (I got to Chapter 8 but never finished...), so I don't think there's anything to worry about. :P You can't convert it since 50Hz's speed is pretty inconsistent.

[quote="Shura"]
-ahh, yeah it took me about 4 tries to get 4FP, and then the fuzzies changed locations in the hallway, so i had to re-do it and got 4FP 2 retires later. the gold fuzzy battle only took me 1 try, thank god, i'm terrible at superguarding. So i only had to reset it 6 times :/ it was a troublesome one though.
[/quote]

Lucky. :(

[quote="Shura"]
-i just brought it up because i really didn't know which way was faster. oh speaking of faster, in the prolouge there's a fire flower in the area after the 2nd battle (vs. the goombas), would getting that instead of buying it in the shop be faster and save money? or does it not matter?
[/quote]

Getting the Fire Flower there would save very little time, if any, and would mean you'd have to worry more about the Spiky Goomba's position; I really didn't feel like dealing with that.

Almo

2010-05-11 10:42:59 am

6:20? that's incredible actually. i didn't think this game could be done under 6 1/2 hours.

i suppose i was lucky on the fuzzy area haha. i didn't take an actual count of resets though, it was probably something closer to 10 than 6, but nothing crazy. the prolouge actually had me reset the most times because i'm terrible at superguarding and did the crump battle about 20 times lol

Raiker Z

Edit history:

Raiker Z: 2010-05-31 07:03:45 pm

2010-05-31 12:31:38 pm

I want to help but no clue where your at in terms of planning Tongue

the first segment looks awesome though

Miles

2010-06-05 08:32:25 am

TheQuietMan

2010-06-05 10:56:54 am

Complete. Global. Saturation.

I find it interesting that you got pissed off with luck-based stuff when you completely tore apart Pikman 2. It had to be those Fuzzy guys, right?
Will the next few segments be less luck-based?

Miles

2010-06-05 11:16:35 am

Pikmin 2's luck was mainly about the sublevel layout, which you find out pretty much immediately. This is... not.

This is the only time in the run that I need an enemy to drop something, which is a huge pain because it both 1. rarely happens, and 2. is impossible to continue on if you don't get it. So I really hope I won't have this much trouble in the future.

Raiker Z

2010-06-05 12:01:59 pm

Don't worry man, it looks great regardless, I really don't even think it was a six second loss there anyway, more like 2, and if its required to get those 2 FP after the battle to speed up another part, then it should be redeemed later on in the run anyway, its all good

MattV

2010-07-21 08:27:40 pm

To Miles:

Every damn time I pick a game to speedrun someone's already doing it. >.<

I made my own route, then saw that yours is much much faster, and I've looked over your route, and so far havn't found a single thing to improve (thought I was close when I moved the Chet Rippo thing around, but then you'd have to wait for Frankly to tell you about the cannon, so it won't work Sad

).

I'm probably going to just do the speedrun anyways, although it won't be on SDA due to quality issues. Grin

Have YOU found anything to improve with that route? Everything seems planned pretty perfectly. :/

ComboKing

Edit history:

ComboKing: 2010-07-23 09:25:29 am

2010-07-22 06:11:05 pm

Best Ike In My City!

I'll help in anyway possible. Also I have been thinking about making a route for 100% segmented. Would any help in any way? I don't know if it is gonna happen though.

Miles I can't wait to see your time on this run.

MattV

2010-07-27 09:49:14 am

I'm stuck on the first segment boys.

Going through the sewers, you defeat the three goombas, then go across the floating platform and down the pipe. You then have to run right, and there is a goomba there waiting to intercept you. Miles made it past it easily, but it nabs me every effing time. Any possible tips or do I need to keep repeating the first ten minutes over again. Grin

FionordeQuester

2010-07-27 12:59:32 pm

Hey Miles, what's your route?

HalfMillennium

2010-07-27 01:12:25 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote from MattV:

I'm stuck on the first segment boys.

Going through the sewers, you defeat the three goombas, then go across the floating platform and down the pipe. You then have to run right, and there is a goomba there waiting to intercept you. Miles made it past it easily, but it nabs me every effing time. Any possible tips or do I need to keep repeating the first ten minutes over again. Grin

Are you using 50hz mode?

MattV

2010-07-27 10:05:33 pm

No 60 Hz but it still gets me every time, it's always right in the middle. :/

ComboKing

2010-07-27 11:15:07 pm

Best Ike In My City!

Do you try to fake it out or do you run straight by it?

MattV

2010-07-28 12:03:37 pm

I try to run right by it, same as what Miiles does. I don't want to waste time faking it out.

I just didn't know if there was any way to manipulate where it is to get by it.

ComboKing

2010-07-28 03:47:41 pm

Best Ike In My City!

There is no way to manipulate where it is standing.

miningboy

2010-10-12 01:02:17 pm

I noticed in the one before this, the one that is up now, is that the guy in glitz pitz sleeps/rests in the bed, even though he has full of every thing, is it nessasary to do this, it could shave 5-10 seconds off each time you don't rest in the bed there

Kryal

2010-10-12 01:23:12 pm

from red to blue

Multiple segments are for wusses. That's why I'm doing SS. I have up to chapter one down, the only way I'll reset on it is me being a dumbass or getting clustered by parakoopa troopas. Chapter 2 is going to be horrible.