Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door improvement

2010-12-21 07:23:28 am

My game time shows 1 minute less than his at the file select screen but basically we're about the same speed.

Currently I'm at Segment 10 and seems like also stuck there since there's one trick that requires almost a frame-perfect timing unless I'm doing it wrong. It only saves a couple of seconds so if I cannot make it more often than 1 out of 15 I'll prob finish the segment w/o it.

NamiNami

2010-12-22 03:32:33 pm

Chapter 2 of my speedrun

Fireftw

2010-12-25 11:20:36 am

Star That Split The Darkness

Very Impresive run so far

NamiNami

2010-12-25 12:34:39 pm

Thanks. I got fed up with the first Segment of Chapter 3 and surprisingly started to TAS the game but stopped it really quick >_>

After I get the beginning of Chapter 3 it shouldn't take much of tries to finish the whole chapter. Need to be lucky with the badges available on sale at the badge shop.

Samura1man

2011-01-01 02:13:38 pm

Chapter 2 is done
Here five new segment. NOTE: Segment 8 doesn't have sound, I'm sorru about that. And segment 9 is fail, I'm sorry about that too, you'll see what I mean.

I_eat_tables

2011-01-01 02:30:40 pm

Fire Emblem?

You know, you're going to need to rerecord with sound if you want to submit the run. Cut your losses and redo it now, I'd say.

Unless it was an uploading issue?

Sillygramcracker

2011-01-01 09:19:39 pm

THIS RUN CONTAINS SECRET WORLDS

Oh crap, I didn't even think of that! Unless you have a copy of the file for Segment 8 with sound you will need to do it again. If you do so and want to keep the segments that came after, you need to make sure that absolutely all of your stats are identical at the end to what they are at the beginning of Segment 9 (that includes your item inventory, no. of coins, HP and FP remaining, badges worn and collected, star points, etc.). I know this because NoiseCrash had to do this for the any% run of Paper Mario, according to that run's comments.

I_eat_tables

2011-01-03 05:23:35 pm

Fire Emblem?

Generally, it doesn't strictly have to be identical - you can also end up with more coins, which is accepted, but generally, I'd go back and redo it I'm afraid.

qwerty1605

2011-01-26 11:04:46 am

Are you guys still doing this. If not I could do a test run but I can't seem to find my ttyd copy

NMeade

2011-02-02 03:06:41 pm

I started to practice this game and I reviewed the new route, I probably won't get good enough to beat the new times by Samura1man or anyone else, but if I were to do that anyway, would it be in a different category for ntsc and pal? (I'm ntsc) Or is there is a conversion you would use?

One more thing, one change I could see to the route that might seem pointless is in the beginning, you have it where you use the save box to prevent Goombella from teaching you how to use it after you buy the contact lens, would it be any faster to save on the first box before the first fight or would it be the same?

RingRush

2011-02-02 05:55:31 pm

If I remember correctly, whenever you reload, the game takes a while to fully load the area, which counts against the timer. Since Miles was able to do the first segment ignoring this save, it is faster to skip it.

Sillygramcracker

2011-02-02 06:12:41 pm

THIS RUN CONTAINS SECRET WORLDS

You might want to look at this thread for discussion of the differences between pal and ntsc: http://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/paper_mario_the_thousand_year_door__may_3rd_2009.html
I am unsure whether there was ever a consensus on whether pal and ntsc are different categories for this game, but it is noteworthy that the current any%, having been run on pal, replaced a slower ntsc run. If I recall, ntsc gives you a speed advantage, especially because it is much easier to run from overworld enemies on a 60 hz framerate. The reason the pal run replaced an ntsc is because it was much faster in spite of its disadvantage (much like a good single-segment that obsoletes a slower, far more inefficient segmented run); with that said, my impression is that there is a precedent to use a conversion process. If anyone would like to back me up or correct me on that, please do so.

Almo

Edit history:

Almo: 2011-02-03 10:52:32 am

2011-02-03 10:46:16 am

Interesting that you guys posted on this yesterday. I just started running it again using Miles strategy, with a few modifications. Generally speaking though, it follows it pretty much all the same. I save a lot more often though, which will cut down on time, but i'm trying to see how fast Miles run can be if pushed to its limits. And i don't feel like re-doing a 15 minute segment 10 times. I'd rather cut it in half if the save block isn't out of the way, and re-do 8 minutes 10 times. Just easier while practice running.

Anyway, I'm not very far at the moment, i'm only at the end of the 3rd segment (if you look at his Excel file) right before the window jump trick, and my clock is at 34 minutes. Dunno if that's as fast as it can be, but my guess is 32-34 is the lowest time at this point. I made a few mistakes here and there, but nothing totally crazy. I think like 1 hammer after dialogue, 1 jumping at a door, and i didn't realize you can't cancel the black chest's dialouge by releasing R. he makes you hold it again. It's only a practice run at the moment though, so i'm not going crazy over it. Definitely not something i'd settle for in recording. Miles might hate me more, because if you read the past pages, last time i did this it didn't take me long to get 3 FP from the fuzzies, and this time i got 4 on my first try :/

I'll post periodically how the practice run is doing and if i notice anything that could use modification, but i probably won't be able to record until summer.

Oh and NMeade, even if you save before Crump, if you don't hit the block after Goombella joins your party she tells you anyway. I think I've tried that before.

Interesting that you guys posted on this yesterday. I just started running it again using Miles strategy, with a few modifications. Generally speaking though, it follows it pretty much all the same. I save a lot more often though, which will cut down on time, but i'm trying to see how fast Miles run can be if pushed to its limits. And i don't feel like re-doing a 15 minute segment 10 times. I'd rather cut it in half if the save block isn't out of the way, and re-do 8 minutes 10 times. Just easier while practice running.

Anyway, I'm not very far at the moment, i'm only at the end of the 3rd segment (if you look at his Excel file) right before the window jump trick, and my clock is at 34 minutes. Dunno if that's as fast as it can be, but my guess is 32-34 is the lowest time at this point. I made a few mistakes here and there, but nothing totally crazy. I think like 1 hammer after dialogue, 1 jumping at a door, and i didn't realize you can't cancel the black chest's dialouge by releasing R. he makes you hold it again. It's only a practice run at the moment though, so i'm not going crazy over it. Definitely not something i'd settle for in recording. Miles might hate me more, because if you read the past pages, last time i did this it didn't take me long to get 3 FP from the fuzzies, and this time i got 4 on my first try :/

I'll post periodically how the practice run is doing and if i notice anything that could use modification, but i probably won't be able to record until summer.

Oh and NMeade, even if you save before Crump, if you don't hit the block after Goombella joins your party she tells you anyway. I think I've tried that before.

HalfMillennium

2011-02-03 01:45:24 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote from NMeade:

would it be in a different category for ntsc and pal? (I'm ntsc) Or is there is a conversion you would use?

Apparently not. Playing it in 50hz mode does change some of the the movement speeds a bit, but there's a 60hz option on PAL copies.

Itsaee

2011-02-03 03:45:03 pm

Sometimes when I finish a battle and get star points, it'll say "You got 15 star points!" or whatever. Usually it pops up then scrolls away, but sometimes I'm playing and it sits there for several seconds and I can't seem to get rid of it. Anybody else have this problem?

Almo

2011-02-04 10:38:47 am

Quote from Sillygramcracker:

You might want to look at this thread for discussion of the differences between pal and ntsc: http://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/paper_mario_the_thousand_year_door__may_3rd_2009.html
I am unsure whether there was ever a consensus on whether pal and ntsc are different categories for this game, but it is noteworthy that the current any%, having been run on pal, replaced a slower ntsc run. If I recall, ntsc gives you a speed advantage, especially because it is much easier to run from overworld enemies on a 60 hz framerate. The reason the pal run replaced an ntsc is because it was much faster in spite of its disadvantage (much like a good single-segment that obsoletes a slower, far more inefficient segmented run); with that said, my impression is that there is a precedent to use a conversion process. If anyone would like to back me up or correct me on that, please do so.

If this is the case, does anyone know the conversion time? It says it would need to be beat by over an hour. Is mikwuyma referring to Wong's or Bunkley's run? I'm not too familiar with how the conversion is done between 50 hz and 60 hz, but it would be helpful to have a "time to beat" if there is a conversion.

[quote="Sillygramcracker"]You might want to look at this thread for discussion of the differences between pal and ntsc: http://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/paper_mario_the_thousand_year_door__may_3rd_2009.html
I am unsure whether there was ever a consensus on whether pal and ntsc are different categories for this game, but it is noteworthy that the current any%, having been run on pal, replaced a slower ntsc run. If I recall, ntsc gives you a speed advantage, especially because it is much easier to run from overworld enemies on a 60 hz framerate. The reason the pal run replaced an ntsc is because it was much faster in spite of its disadvantage (much like a good single-segment that obsoletes a slower, far more inefficient segmented run); with that said, my impression is that there is a precedent to use a conversion process. If anyone would like to back me up or correct me on that, please do so.[/quote]

If this is the case, does anyone know the conversion time? It says it would need to be beat by over an hour. Is mikwuyma referring to Wong's or Bunkley's run? I'm not too familiar with how the conversion is done between 50 hz and 60 hz, but it would be helpful to have a "time to beat" if there is a conversion.

Almo

Edit history:

Almo: 2011-02-04 05:35:39 pm

Almo: 2011-02-04 03:56:59 pm

Almo: 2011-02-04 03:23:13 pm

2011-02-04 02:32:36 pm

After many hours of frustration, i have finally dealt with Chapter 3. I'm just practice running it at the moment because i can't record until i go home for summer unfortunately, so i'm allowing for some error. Not much though. Just minor things.

My time after the Bowser Segment after Chapter 3 is 2:51. Can definitely be reduced down between 2:40 and 2:45.

I'm using Miles' strategy btw.

Almo

Edit history:

Almo: 2011-02-05 12:46:30 pm

2011-02-05 12:44:17 pm

I'm wondering if Miles miscalculated or if i'm doing something wrong.

I'm on the Cortez Battle, and Spin Jump only does 19 (9, then 10). Am i possibly doing something wrong?

I'm at 1 HP, have Mega Rush, Power Rush and Power Plus equipped, and at level 7.

Any suggestions as to why this is? I mean i can remedy it with vivian or something, but this takes a bit longer.

HalfMillennium

Edit history:

HalfMillennium: 2011-02-05 01:25:22 pm

HalfMillennium: 2011-02-05 01:25:12 pm

HalfMillennium: 2011-02-05 01:24:52 pm

2011-02-05 01:24:25 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote from Shura:

does anyone know the conversion time? It says it would need to be beat by over an hour. Is mikwuyma referring to Wong's or Bunkley's run? I'm not too familiar with how the conversion is done between 50 hz and 60 hz, but it would be helpful to have a "time to beat" if there is a conversion.

If it's a simple conversion, you can work out vaguely what the time is by taking the 50hz time (in seconds), dividing that by six and multiplying the result by five. Using that calculation, the time for an NTSC or PAL 60 run to beat would be just under 5:56, but as different things run at different speeds it's not an exact conversion.

Almo

2011-02-05 01:31:57 pm

Would it be safe to assume that sub 6:40 would beat Wong's then? About a half hour under his time?

HalfMillennium

2011-02-05 01:35:42 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

By conversion, probably not. However, if they're the same category, it might be able to.

Almo

2011-02-05 05:22:40 pm

blahhh, this practice run is getting really sloppy. I'm at 5:06 and i just finished the Bowser segment after chapter 6. Sad

Hopefully i do better when i record lol. I'm allowing for way too many mistakes lol.

NamiNami

2011-02-25 02:51:07 pm

Apparently I started to play this again. My latest recorded stuff are from 2 months ago but I'm still having a touch on this. Finishing Chapter 3 now...

Sillygramcracker

2011-02-26 09:57:24 am

THIS RUN CONTAINS SECRET WORLDS

@Itsaee
An answer to your question is long overdue, but I think I might know why this happens. From my observation, the "You got X Star Points" message only goes away fast if you press A precisely as the last enemy's death animation finishes, or the exact moment when the game first displays the quantity of star points accumulated during battle (the part where the stars in the lower-left corner are moved to the middle of the screen and magnified, and before the number of stars here starts counting down as the star points counter in the HUD above goes up). If you wait too long after, the star points accumulated during battle are converted to HUD star points much more slowly and the message takes longer to go away.

Is this observation consistent with your findings?

NamiNami

2011-02-26 02:37:43 pm

Quote from Shura:

Anyway, I'm not very far at the moment, i'm only at the end of the 3rd segment (if you look at his Excel file) right before the window jump trick, and my clock is at 34 minutes. Dunno if that's as fast as it can be, but my guess is 32-34 is the lowest time at this point. I made a few mistakes here and there, but nothing totally crazy.

Seems like I had 32 minutes at this point.

Quote from Shura:

After many hours of frustration, i have finally dealt with Chapter 3.

I do know what you mean with that frustration, I've needed to restart the Chapter 3 Segments so many times due to bad Grubba conditions -.- Also seems like Gale Force is so much luck based. No matter you get the meter full, all the enemies still have like 50% chance of staying there...