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Professional Second Banana
What about getting 2 Life's off on the same dragon during the level up battle?  I know that's somewhat difficult to pull off, though I don't know how that impacts the rest of the battle if you try for it.

Re: safety saves I'd prefer for runners to save as often as they feel they need to, since I'd hate for someone to lose hours of progress (forfeiting won't really be an option if it's FF4 or 5).
in the levelup fight, 2 life1's will make the fight play out differently I know- the order obviously cannot be the same.  Easily doable though, and I like that it makes us use different methods, I'm in
I want off the ride....
2 life's on the dragons is a part of the setup and can be locked out depending on party level. If people aren't the right level, the actions wont have the right priority and the atbs will be off. You could ask deign but i remember him telling me about that. thats why he did it the way he did it. but getting 1 off is... ok; doing more than 1 is bullshit without the right setup
Edit history:
Deuceler: 2013-12-22 09:20:11 am
SPEEDruns not SAFEruns
It would all boil down to what your stats are. Depending on if Cecil stays alive in previous boss fights, or if you level up right after the MilonZ battle, his level will be anywhere from 18-21 preferred. If he gets to level 22 you are totally dicked. I lost a run because of this, the turn order was so out of wack at D.Machin it was terrible. That has only ever happened to me once in many runs so it's highly unlikely, if I remember correctly he gained all the exp during the Golbez fight and that's what set it off (Rydia and Kain were killed, stupid damage). I personally don't want to do the Calcabrena fight, it's so easy to get smashed by that bitch haha
I want off the ride....
Quote from Deuceler:
It would all boil down to what your stats are. Depending on if Cecil stays alive in previous boss fights, or if you level up right after the MilonZ battle, his level will be anywhere from 18-21 preferred. If he gets to level 22 you are totally dicked. I lost a run because of this, the turn order was so out of wack at D.Machin it was terrible. That has only ever happened to me once in many runs so it's highly unlikely, if I remember correctly he gained all the exp during the Golbez fight and that's what set it off (Rydia and Kain were killed, stupid damage). I personally don't want to do the Calcabrena fight, it's so easy to get smashed by that bitch haha

Yet i've done it in TWO "marathon" runs. The first one at AGDQ'11 (my first attempt at succeeding) and ever since then i've done it every time. Its not as tricky as you think. You just have to play SMART... >.>
SPEEDruns not SAFEruns
Are we talking about the Calcabrena fight? It's a really easy fight, but I've had her wipe me in one turn before because of doing 800+ damage each attack. Since we can safety save it won't be an issue to do incentives IMO.
Edit history:
puwexil: 2013-12-30 03:03:34 pm
puwexil: 2013-12-30 03:02:41 pm
Professional Second Banana
I'd like to get the incentives list finalized within the next few days so everyone knows what to practice - here's what I have so far (feedback welcome):

FF4
Direct airship landing at Troia
Defeat Calbrena (merged doll)
Final hit on Zeromus with direct attack/spell (no reflected spells)

FF5
Direct airship landing at Crescent Island Base (1st visit)
Defeat NeoExdeath (no Kiss of Blessing on 1st form, maybe no Kiss on 2nd form either)

FF6
Direct airship landing at Kefka's Tower
1st try Reverse Joker Doom on Ultros/Chupon
SDA's Got Talent (viewers vote for best opera performance - no tool-assistance allowed MV Wink )


FF5 needs a 3rd incentive, though I'm having trouble thinking of a good one (optional Gilgamesh battles could work but they'd add more time to the run than any of the other incentives, and playing the pianos doesn't really require any skill at the game other than remembering where they are).  What do the rest of you think?

I'm also debating what exactly to do with the incentives.  I was originally envisioning a scoring system for the relay (each team would win points based on what order they finished in, which team finished each individual game first, and which incentives they completed) in order to keep the relay competitive even if there gets to be an hour+ spread between teams; but another option just to keep it simpler could be just subtracting X number of minutes from the runner's final time for each incentive.  Anybody have any opinion one way or the other?
I want off the ride....
Obviously we need to have the "soft lock the game at Exdeath" incentive Tongue j/k!

Why not go with the "obtain mime class" ? I mean its not that far out of the way, and if you know what you are doing its not as bad as the gilgamesh fights. And its quite measurable... Although we could (because we are including neo ex-death) allow for the extensions to the other not-so-required fights. Why not bonus for every weapon Unlocked of the 12?... but that is still too much.

FF5 has too many "big" incentives. Would be interesting to have a "lock out" roller, where some bosses can optionally lock out a class for that fight (Hey no Samurai for the 4 seals!); but again that would have to be pre arranged.

or did we forget about no optional battles on the BIG BRIDGE? or ALL BATTLES on bridge?
Edit history:
Emptyeye: 2013-12-30 03:26:32 pm
Talk to the Hand
Quote from puwexil:
FF5 needs a 3rd incentive, though I'm having trouble thinking of a good one (optional Gilgamesh battles could work [...]


I'm still wondering what terrible version of FFV everyone is playing that has "optional" Gilgamesh battles. Wink
Professional Second Banana
Hmm, avoiding all possible Big Bridge battles without stopping sounds promising.
Just a reminder that this is coming up in less than a month~

Hoping to see some practice streams in the coming weeks!
We also need to figure out what to do with the incentives.  I personally have NO clue how to handle those LOL. 

On that note, after my BOILeR monthly races this weekend I will be running FF4 daily.  Im going into this at my best, let the RNG do what it may
I must simply laugh.
so who is obda going to replace?
Assuming everyone who signed up still wants to participate and shows up, nobody.
according to puwexil, there is a spot open for FFIV
Professional Second Banana
Quote from crumps2:
We also need to figure out what to do with the incentives.  I personally have NO clue how to handle those LOL. 

I'm still having trouble deciding between keeping it simple (incentives subtract X minutes from the run time based on difficulty) vs having a scoring system for the relay (X points for each incentive, plus for finishing an individual game 1st/2nd/3rd and for finishing the entire relay 1st/2nd/3rd).  If no one else has any opinions on this, I'll probably just go with the simpler option.

Also, Brossentia's been pretty busy with real-life/school stuff lately and isn't going to have enough practice time for the 2nd half of FF4 before 2/8, so obdajr is going to take his place.
is that going to affect teams at all?
Professional Second Banana
I don't think so - putting obdajr on Team 1 should still leave the teams decently balanced by total skill.
SPEEDruns not SAFEruns
I feel like that effects the teams pretty heavily to be honest, not that Brossentia isn't good at the game, but to take someone that is "learning" the game and replacing them with someone who has is 7 minutes faster then the second best time is a bit much. I'm not in anyway concerned about it, just feel like that may cause some unbalance.
SPEEDruns not SAFEruns
Also, on the topic of incentives - how much are you talking about docking people if they don't do them? I feel like it's a good idea, but shouldn't have any direct effect on the race itself, maybe you could have something for the team that collects the most incentives - but changing a teams time sounds like it may get hairy
Professional Second Banana
The point of the incentives is to reward players for doing challenging/risky things that don't really affect the run time much (unless they fail - ie the Zeromus direct attack challenge), so I'm not following why that would make things 'hairy'.
They're more like bonuses than anything. Make the incentive good enough to make people want to do them but not so much that it makes the race lopsided. You're already losing time for failing most of them.
I must simply laugh.
well Deuceler has a good point especially with the FF4 incentives. If you fail killing Calcabrena or killing Zeromus with an attack, not only do you not get the incentive BUT you are likely to die(moreso in the second incentive, it can happen in the first too) so that is kind of a double punishment there, especially the walk up to Zeromus is rather long. Personally if it stays as it is, im not gonna dare to try that on Zeromus since not only will it punish me, but my whole team. For Calcabrena its not that bad since you can probably save it and avoid death, but still there might be a worst case scenario.
the more i think about it, the more i think teams are clearly unbalanced(at least for team 1), i would suggest a swap between puwexil and Rane(would make teams somewhat more balanced than what they are right now imo)
SPEEDruns not SAFEruns
The only thing I'm concerned about with incentives is losing a bunch of time - either by death or from failing to do the incentive and being dinged in the end for it. I was practicing Calcabrena quite a bit last night and I forgot if you don't kill the doll in time it reverts back to the fight with the 3 cals and 3 brenas. Not to mention if you try and mute the party during the calcabrena fight and it does revert back to it you waste a turn with Rosa attempting to cast slow after healing her - I'm sure I sound extremely negative in this regard, I really enjoy the idea of having these extra incentives, but I feel the part that could get "hairy" is people getting upset when their negatively impacted for choosing not to do some of the incentives.

On the topic of the team balance, I have to agree with Deln, having Obdajr followed directly by Puwexill is clearly an advantage for team 1. It wouldn't be a problem if the the race was just set up at random, but having the ability to pick and choose teams makes this seem a bit lopsided. However, if you want to be the best - you have to beat the best. Any decision Puwexil makes on this is fine by me, and the fact that eLmaGus and I haven't technically done an RTA run makes our times a bit skewed. At any rate I'm excited for the race, it should be a good event and hopefully it garners some worthy attention from the community.

I did have one more question for Puwexil (sorry for the novel), how would you prefer us to stream that day? I'm assuming it would be easiest for you if we just had a game screen on stream, and didn't use  a microphone - hopefully making the re-stream a bit cleaner for the viewers. Just curious because my stream is hinged solely on viewer interaction, mainly because my speed running is average at best haha