SDA "Mark II" Speedrunning Tourney (ALL CLEAR)

2009-03-22 11:27:09 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Yeah thanks for bringing that up, it's tip #1 for this game. Evolve to heal.

Planning this game is a massive undertaking. I'd be willing to share strats, but I don't have much right now. Also I don't know if the point of competition this week is supposed to be figuring it out on our own. I don't even know if I'm going bird or mammal yet (obviously reptile and human can be ruled out). IIRC mammal is faster but bird is a lot easier, which matters a lot for a comp like this.

Public service announcement re Strider: I didn't know about this game until I saw it at Magfest (thanks pcb dudes), but there is a spiritual sequel to Strider by the same director, called Osman. It is 1000% awesome (just like Strider) and has a middle east theme instead of a soviet theme. Strider 2 is a good game, but it's nowhere near as awesome.

Man, I don't know what to do. Strider and Liquid Kids are probably my 2 favorite comp games in this tourney.

Breakdown

2009-03-23 06:56:25 am

Haters gonna hate

For EVO:

1:16:38 - Breakdown - ALL

This is an OK time, but nothing great. I died six or seven times (and that's not counting two ring outs from Cro-Marine), a couple of which cost me a bunch of EP (the last death set me back like 3k) which necessitated some extra grinding, and I had a pretty slow Bolbox fight (I have yet to devise a speedy and reliable way to get through the stupid lizard boss refight and the cockroach). I think a solid time for this game would be right around the hour mark, it could probably go a little under if everything went just right.

I'm not going to divulge all my strats at present, but I will say I'm going the mammal route. I did record a (working) replay that I can post at the end of the week if anybody's interested. Not sure if I'll improve this or not, for now I want to play me some Strider. Smiley

Normand Nubcake

2009-03-24 03:03:06 pm

57:41 - Normand - ALL

I haven't experimented much with the mammal, but the bird route I'm taking seems to be a little faster in theory, and definitely easier. Damn, I wish I hadn't sold this game

Zealie

2009-03-24 04:21:39 pm

Quote from Normand Nubcake:

57:41 - Normand - ALL

I haven't experimented much with the mammal, but the bird route I'm taking seems to be a little faster in theory, and definitely easier. Damn, I wish I hadn't sold this game

0o

57:41 ? :O
That's a frickin' amazing time if you ask me. I'm pretty sure that would be good enough for sda approval =x
I've also just played with the bird and it was a pretty good run, except for 1 really stupid mistake that ended up getting me killed.
My endtime is:

1:01:41 - ZaibirQuild - ALL

without that mistake (which was my only big one tbh) it might have been around 59 I think...
Hmm I'll guess I'll have to practice some more (I really can't think of anything anymore that I could do faster). Sad

;p

Do you use the dragon a lot?
Would be very interested to see if you got same tactics (also with killing the endbosses) as me.
Also interested offcourse in the mammal route and how you try getting evo points in beginning.

Also I am also using bird. It sure is slower in the beginning, but I'm not sure if you can win back all the time back when you need to get evo points if you were to go for mammal. I do know it sure as hell is easier as mammal (except for 1 boss).

[edit] i'm still not sure if you may use the save option in this game? if so then luck manip in getting better rares would surely save some time...

[quote="Normand Nubcake"]
57:41 - Normand - ALL

I haven't experimented much with the mammal, but the bird route I'm taking seems to be a little faster in theory, and definitely easier. Damn, I wish I hadn't sold this game
[/quote]

0o

57:41 ? :O
That's a frickin' amazing time if you ask me. I'm pretty sure that would be good enough for sda approval =x
I've also just played with the bird and it was a pretty good run, except for 1 really stupid mistake that ended up getting me killed.
My endtime is:

1:01:41 - ZaibirQuild - ALL

without that mistake (which was my only big one tbh) it  might have been around 59 I think...
Hmm I'll guess I'll have to practice some more (I really can't think of anything anymore that I could do faster). :( ;p

Do you use the dragon a lot? 
Would be very interested to see if you got same tactics (also with killing the endbosses) as me.
Also interested offcourse in the mammal route and how you try getting evo points in beginning.

Also I am also using bird. It sure is slower in the beginning, but I'm not sure if you can win back all the time back when you need to get evo points if you were to go for mammal. I do know it sure as hell is easier as mammal (except for 1 boss).

[edit] i'm still not sure if you may use the save option in this game? if so then luck manip in getting better rares would surely save some time...

Breakdown

2009-03-24 10:31:39 pm

Haters gonna hate

Well since I seem to be the only one going the mammal route, here's what I do:

-Record my final amphibian (fierce jaws, jeprol, spring tail, jumping dorsal) and reptile (phonocos jaws, invincible tail, ptendon helmet, whatever the best dorsal is called, and double 2 legs [very speedy and good jump]) forms for green crystal use.

-Once in mammal only kill what gets in my way until the tricera room in the third cave in chapter four, green crystal into amphibian, kill tricera's on the way (2 bites) and the hog things (one bite) in the next room, nab green crystal there. When crystal wears off evolve a Mane. Kill stuff in the way on the way out (no extra grinding).

-Next level is the brachiosaurs (or whatever bastardization of the name the used). Jump the first two, crystal into amphibian again and kill the three on the way out (3 bites). In the tyrasaur level kill the guy at the entrance (little risky, they can one shot the amphibian, takes 5 bites), scroll off screen, double back and kill him again. Hopefully get a green meat and evolve fierce jaws.

-Next level kill enough of the. . .things to get fierce jaws (with no deaths shouldn't take any extra grinding, 4 bites with just mane), if you already have fierce jaws, just run through killing them all.

-Need fierce jaws for the penguins or they simply wreck you, chow on them and jump over the seals. If you got lucky with flashy meat drops evolve a horselike body asap. Definitely have enough after the mammoths.

-Get a little extra EP from the bird soldiers for the evolution trick if necessary (lengthen/shorten neck is only 200 EP) and start saving up EP. Grab the green crystal on the way.

-Use the reptile saved in the record to fly through a bunch of chapter 5 (can get by two of the water screens without having to go through the evolution animations).

-Assuming you don't die anywhere you should have 8000 or close to it without going out of your way by final ocean to evolve into the mermaid, very speedy and strong. Wrecks the rogon king. If you do die somewhere there's the blue crystal at condor mountain which doesn't take long to get if you still have use of the reptile.

-Go beat the game.

It's definitely not easy, the 2nd and 3rd yetis are tough fights for the mammal and there's definitely a few other parts that aren't gimmes by any stretch. Seems like it should be faster than the bird though, skips three levels completely, four if you're going to the cloud level (which is pretty long) and there really isn't much in the way of out of the way grinding.

Seeing these times I might have to keep playing, Strider can wait I suppose.

Well since I seem to be the only one going the mammal route, here's what I do:

-Record my final amphibian (fierce jaws, jeprol, spring tail, jumping dorsal) and reptile (phonocos jaws, invincible tail, ptendon helmet, whatever the best dorsal is called, and double 2 legs [[i]very[/i] speedy and good jump]) forms for green crystal use.

-Once in mammal only kill what gets in my way until the tricera room in the third cave in chapter four, green crystal into amphibian, kill tricera's on the way (2 bites) and the hog things (one bite) in the next room, nab green crystal there.  When crystal wears off evolve a Mane.  Kill stuff in the way on the way out (no extra grinding).

-Next level is the brachiosaurs (or whatever bastardization of the name the used).  Jump the first two, crystal into amphibian again and kill the three on the way out (3 bites).  In the tyrasaur level kill the guy at the entrance (little risky, they can one shot the amphibian, takes 5 bites), scroll off screen, double back and kill him again.  Hopefully get a green meat and evolve fierce jaws.

-Next level kill enough of the. . .things to get fierce jaws (with no deaths shouldn't take any extra grinding, 4 bites with just mane), if you already have fierce jaws, just run through killing them all.

-Need fierce jaws for the penguins or they simply wreck you, chow on them and jump over the seals.  If you got lucky with flashy meat drops evolve a horselike body asap.  Definitely have enough after the mammoths.

-Get a little extra EP from the bird soldiers for the evolution trick if necessary (lengthen/shorten neck is only 200 EP) and start saving up EP.  Grab the green crystal on the way.

-Use the reptile saved in the record to fly through a bunch of chapter 5 (can get by two of the water screens without having to go through the evolution animations).

-Assuming you don't die anywhere you should have 8000 or close to it without going out of your way by final ocean to evolve into the mermaid, very speedy and strong.  Wrecks the rogon king.  If you do die somewhere there's the blue crystal at condor mountain which doesn't take long to get if you still have use of the reptile.

-Go beat the game.

It's definitely not easy, the 2nd and 3rd yetis are tough fights for the mammal and there's definitely a few other parts that aren't gimmes by any stretch.  Seems like it should be faster than the bird though, skips three levels completely, four if you're going to the cloud level (which is pretty long) and there really isn't much in the way of out of the way grinding.

Seeing these times I might have to keep playing, Strider can wait I suppose.

Enhasa

Edit history:

Enhasa: 2009-03-25 10:19:43 pm

2009-03-25 07:37:28 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

First a question for Aqua. Is the bonus week after this one, or concurrent with week 7? It's brutal putting up these great games against each other. I barely even feel like I have any time for EVO as is!

Ok, this game is way way too awesome. It has its quirks but this is a top 50 game for me, maybe top 25, my favorite in this whole tourney. I haven't had this much fun planning anything in a long time. The hours have just been flying past when I play this. It's even better than I remembered, and it makes a much better speedrunning game and a better competition game than I would have figured too. Dash jumping to blaze through stages in 2 secs while bouncing on various animals is like the greatest thing ever. This game is really hilarious too with the faces and reactions of all the animals and it's got a twisted sense of humor.

Anyway, I'm going bird for now, although I think a run for SDA probably shouldn't (although I just realized, they could all get counted as separate categories anyway). I finished a run but didn't time it. Well I do think it would be great if we shared strategies and refined routes some since we're already playing, so later tonight I'll post what I do. Going based off memory, sorry.

If someone could tell me how to handle yetis as a reptile, I'd actually be going reptile. Other than the yetis, it works out so perfectly for reptiles, and you don't have to bother with reupgrading, 5000 evo crystal, etc. But yetis are apparently some insane dino killing machines.

Edit: Factoid I just learned. EVO's soundtrack was composed by Koichi Sugiyama, famous for being the Dragon Quest composer. It does seem a little weird at first, since the music sounds really close to Illusion of Gaia style in many places, more than DQ. Maybe it's placebo, but once you realize this, you do start to hear similarities though. At any rate, I think this is Sugiyama's best, and it demonstrates some musical range and flexibility.

First a question for Aqua. Is the bonus week after this one, or concurrent with week 7? It's brutal putting up these great games against each other. I barely even feel like I have any time for EVO as is!

Ok, this game is way way too awesome. It has its quirks but this is a top 50 game for me, maybe top 25, my favorite in this whole tourney. I haven't had this much fun planning anything in a long time. The hours have just been flying past when I play this. It's even better than I remembered, and it makes a much better speedrunning game and a better competition game than I would have figured too. Dash jumping to blaze through stages in 2 secs while bouncing on various animals is like the greatest thing ever. This game is really hilarious too with the faces and reactions of all the animals and it's got a twisted sense of humor.

Anyway, I'm going bird for now, although I think a run for SDA probably shouldn't (although I just realized, they could all get counted as separate categories anyway). I finished a run but didn't time it. Well I do think it would be great if we shared strategies and refined routes some since we're already playing, so later tonight I'll post what I do. Going based off memory, sorry.

If someone could tell me how to handle yetis as a reptile, I'd actually be going reptile. Other than the yetis, it works out so perfectly for reptiles, and you don't have to bother with reupgrading, 5000 evo crystal, etc. But yetis are apparently some insane dino killing machines.

Edit: Factoid I just learned. EVO's soundtrack was composed by Koichi Sugiyama, famous for being the Dragon Quest composer. It does seem a little weird at first, since the music sounds really close to Illusion of Gaia style in many places, more than DQ. Maybe it's placebo, but once you realize this, you do start to hear similarities though. At any rate, I think this is Sugiyama's best, and it demonstrates some musical range and flexibility.

AquaTiger

2009-03-26 02:25:06 am

Never give up!

They started concurrent, Enhasa. It may have kind of been my error to handle it that way, partly because of the choice to do two bonus games and partly because the 'main' game was two weeks long.

Because of these, if I find people are struggling to get all the games played that they feel they can, I may extend the bonus games another week.

Enhasa

2009-03-27 01:27:05 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Yeah Aqua, could we get another week please? I know if nothing else, Breakdown would appreciate a tourney week to focus on Strider, and I want to see if I can discuss Liquid Kids with anyone.

55:53 - Enhasa - ALL

I went mammal, and this time could come down more, but this game is absolutely brutal to run. I still don't know what a perfect time would look like. I just checked tasvideos, and there is a WIP with the bird in "less than 42 minutes of input." He thinks reptile is fastest, but wants bird to win for the entertainment. I haven't watched it yet. Actually I haven't checked out anything about this game yet this week, including FAQs or the current thread with soteos strats (I think he said bird is fastest).

PS the funniest thing about this game is how completely uneducational it is. I can't think of any game that would actually do more to harm a kid's knowledge of any subject than this game and evolution. But hey, I don't play games to LARN things, I play awesome games where you bounce on horses.

Here are some assorted tips.

- Evolving and using green crystal recover full HP. You can cheat death at 0 HP if you're fast too.
- You can hit R to return to the overworld. This is a key trick that needs to be used whenever applicable, but it isn't extremely obvious.
- Gulping (X) can be useful for eating food at the right height and also resetting a jump, allowing you to land on the highest platform. It also lets you bounce twice, but I don't think that actually matters for running.
- Just some terminology. I use bite (Y), ram (dash with horn), bounce (B jump and land on top like Mario), kick (A with mammal), and charge (dash A). Bite does bite damage, ram does horn damage (breaks in 3 uses, gets recharged by evolving just like HP), bounce does strength / 2 damage rounded down but at least 1, kick does kick damage, charge does strength damage. There's also a strike which does strike damage, but that involves human path which doesn't matter for running.
- You can only hold one green crystal at a time. I relearned this the hard way.
- Dash jumping is generally fastest, and bouncing is very desirable when you can do it. It's more important than always holding on to forward.
- When in water, traveling along the top is useful because you can jump out the top out of the water.

Here is my mammal route. It takes exactly 0 time fighting anyone who isn't necessary.

ch1

- Once I did the whole chapter without triggering the jellyfish dialogue. That is way too luck-based for this comp, but I could see it for SDA.
- Eat the yellow crystal and immediately R exit. BTW this is the only yellow crystal you need to eat in the whole game.
- Eat the red crystal and hope for the eel instead of the ray. I reset if I get ray, it's up to you though. R exit.
- Kill dudes in the undersea volcano and if you get 2 green meat, you'll have 500 before you run out of ray. If you don't, it's up to you if you want to restart, but it's not a catastrophe. Evolve kura fin. Try to stay near either edge, preferably at the top. You can exit out either side ASAP when the volcano erupts, doesn't have to be to the right.
- Go to the right in the cave and get the 500 blue crystal. Evolve tackle fin. Go back and clear the cave. Try to limit the number of dashes you have to make. There's really an art to it that comes from experience. Good luck and watch out at the volcano part. It's like Gradius nostalgia.
- If you have both upgrades, you can dash past the nautiloids (look like Titanic Lancer from Darius Gaiden only not titanic, hah). Otherwise you either need to lure them like upsidedown thwomps from Mario, or kill them if you need the exp to reach 500. If you still don't have enough, kill a shark or two.
- The way I kill the shark boss is to charge. You can lure him to charge at you and whiff, and then punish. Or you can actually get him in a loop on the lower section at the right. There's food if you really need it, and it's easy if you're not being reckless, but unfortunately speedrunning is reckless business.
- Evolve kura tail and save in slot 1 (saving your form of course, not the game itself) with no name.

ch2

- Go and get the green crystal.
- When the boss starts, jump to the right and fall down to the slightly raised platform, then move left a little so you don't get landed on. Now since you are above the boss, he will never spit, just jump. Transform to fish and lock him in a charge cycle as he jumps over you to the left and right. When he's dead, which will be very soon, there's a specific spot to stand on to trigger the thankful dude and little kid. Don't jump over that.
- Use fish until it runs out. When it does, spend all 400 exp on Kerii and power tail.
- Go to the bee cave and eat the dying dude for great justice. Evolve jumping fin. Kill all the larvae (by charging). Try to stay to the right so you can jump on the king bee when it comes out. Basically, I know it can be faster in many places to just chain bite, but it's so much riskier and more expensive (since many upgrades help both agility and strength, while bite is separate). This hurts me for bees mainly, but I don't farm any so I think it's a plus. Anyway I walk to avoid stingers and bee charge, punish with charge. Then jump and try to score in some free bounce hits. You have to look to see if the bee is low enough. Repeat and win.
- Evolve thorny spring tail. Bounce on the dragonfly for lulz and speed on the way out. Thanks little guy.
- Pick up the green crystal in the desert. It should be right where you land anyway.
- You won't be jumping on queen bee, just charging. She is high enough that you can just walk back and forth under her to avoid the 3 stingers. Evolve big horn (yeah, even horns have a use in this run) and save amphibian to slot 1, overwriting fish.

ch3

- Take the south path. When you come to the green crystal, jump up and right before you eat it, transform to amphibian. Time is precious, so blaze through the stages.
- When you get to the frog boss (very reminiscent of Umihara Kawase actually), ram it with your horns as much as possible. I've gotten all 3 hits, but even 0 is ok. When it runs out, immediately transform again. Ram 3x again. Then lock the boss in a boss jumps, you charge cycle. You are extremely fast so you should actually wait a bit for the boss to pass you in the air before you dash. The timing is extremely lenient because the charge hitbox is so good. The frog can essentially land on you and still get hit, just make sure the charge is activated.
- Afterwards, it's evolution party time. You get a ton of exp, 2000 in fact. Evolve pitsaurus jaws, pronesaurus fin, snake tail, and ptenodon crest.
- This is where the route starts to branch off depending on what final evolution you want. I'll continue with mammal and list less in detail for other animals later.
- When entering the t-rex domain, grab the green crystal. Then start charging t-rexes. I know you can chain bite but this is extremely risky since one t-rex bite kills you from full, and once again, the route is setup for charging. Charging is fast anyway. If you get to the end of the map, I think it's faster to jump over and charge towards the middle again. It's your call but that's my opinion. If you get lucky, or maybe there's some skill, you can attack 2 t-rexes simultaneously if they overlap.
- Anyway, once you get 1000, evolve 2 legs once. Reptile gets both 2 legs evolutions and it is hella sexy with agility and jump, but the purpose here is something different that will come up later. Once you get the next 1000, evolve tora jaws. Then save your reptile on slot 2.

ch4

- Go into the cave and turn into a mammal. Exit and then R exit.
- Next cave, enter and exit, then R exit.
- I take the path through the mountain, not over it. Both have green crystals. That might just be a holdover from when I was going reptile, but I still get the impression it's faster with mammal. With bird, it might be over the mountain, I'm not sure, but I would still go inside with bird actually. Saves overworld time and is much easier. Anyway, jump up to the green crystal (perfect height again) and transform to amphibian right before you eat it.
- Go as far as you can with amphibian until it runs out. This happens to me near the seal in the north pole.
- The mammoths are deadly and "easy" if you get the setup right, tough as nails otherwise. This is really tight, get ready. As mammal, get up in his face, taking bubble damage. Evolve into reptile and just start biting the crap out of him like your life depends on it (which it does). With 2 legs, your bite keeps you in place, allowing for chain biting.
- As soon as one mammoth is dead, jump to the left until trigger, then land back to the right next to the next mammoth, taking bubble damage. Then bite away again. During the third and last mammoth, reptile will run out.
- Moment of truth time for mammal. Depending on how fast you set everything up earlier, you might want to steal a few bite hits with mammal before you upgrade. Hopefully it's not necessary. Evolve rabbit jaws. Now kick the mammoth. It should almost be dead, but you can keep it kick locked if it's pinned at the edge of the screen.
- Worst celebration party ever. Nothing to evolve! Don't fight the girl mammoth obviously (ps I love how females in this game are always pink).
- Jump up and touch the ice as high as possible for a split-second time savings, oh boy. The way to deal with the stegosaurus riders is to charge them, then dash jump over them.
- The first flying swordsbird can be run past. If they are the same height you should jump, and if they are charging with sword, jump back and do it early. Path you take is actually the fastest one you can do with your current form, no shortcuts, but funny enough, this takes you right by a green crystal that you eat. The path is forward, down and left, down and left, same teleporter.
- Try to get the bird king against the wall on the left. You can lure him there while as a mammal. When you're ready, change to reptile and chain bite. It doesn't work so well here as mammoths. Give yourself a bit of distance but you still might be knocked down. I think it went flawlessly once and he died, but probably your reptile will run out. Mammal moment of truth again. Kick the bird king until he's dead, shouldn't be too long. Watership Down is victorious!
- With 2000 exp gained, evolve horse jaws and horse body. Now you are a little awesome kicking machine who runs like the wind.
- Fight the yetis. Mr. Yeti is an absolute joke with current form. He'll just keep jumping at you like some scrubby sf4 player. Anti-air him over and over again with kick lock until he is dead.
- Mrs. Yeti has jugs. She's actually an infinitely tougher boss due to insane clap attack as well as ice breath. What you need to do here is lure her to the edge and kick lock. You can also kick her over there by jumping and then using a bit of the resulting invincibility to kick. That's useful in general I guess. Evolve bull horn after the fight. If you can't do it now, just do it whenever you can. It's not terribly important but it does help out a lot (+5 str, +5 hp, +7 def).

ch5

- Blaze through all these stages. As a mammal, I think you have to go in the water for each water stage. Horse bouncing is particularly hilarious.
- Grizzlies are something to watch out for since they jump high. Just be careful and realize they're not as easy as most of the other animals while dash jumping. Forget chain bouncing. You need to pass them near the apex of your jumps.
- Skip the 5000 exp blue crystal in condor land. You don't need it.
- I was kinda afraid monkey and dino caves would be hard without bird but actually they're not. Make your way to the yeti. He's kinda tough but again the trick is to kick lock him next to the screen edge. To get him there, you can charge when he whiffs his set of punches or lure him. If you need to, of course now you have the exp to switch necks for hp.
- Go into the ocean. Sadly, no exp for mermaid available, but it's not needed plus you don't need to sit through all the transformations.
- Rogon boss is cake. Who cares if you get hit by the blinding light, it only does 1 damage and vision is unnecessary here. Kick him and he will go flying towards the bottom left of the map. Go there and it's an easy kick lock.
- No need to fight the queen bee of course.
- Against cro-magnon, jump bite to get up in his face and then kick lock him at the entrance of the cave. If he escapes, it's an easy deal, just tap left and continue kick locking.
- Final boss time, guy looks like a huge cell or paramecium or whatever. Now it's time to become a tank just like in a Metal Warriors run. Evolve fierce jaws, mane, and rhinocerous body for some added hp and defense. If you are super pro and never getting hit and have balls of steel, you can stay with horse body since it's faster, but yeah I really don't recommend that. Use your remaining exp to switch between long and short neck for hp recovery. There are actually differences and at times you want long neck and at times you want short, but it's not a huge deal and I don't switch just for that, I hope to get lucky.
- Final boss sits there with its phallic nose. Position yourself perfectly, remember this is an SNES game so the hitbox is what you see. Then jump up and bite. All the substages will have to be cycled through and the order is random. At times, the boss will take male enhancement pills and super extend its nose. This is dangerous since you will be preoccupied, but the best way to handle this is to kick since kick comes out quickly plus protects your backside while you are busy.
- Ignore the food if you can, which unless you are doing terribly you should be able to. Some enemies are cake like the dino and birdman, which you chain bite. For the first amphibian boss, kick locking is best even though you're not a horse anymore. You can try biting but he loves to spit gunk at you. Jump bite the jellyfish. For the fish, first get it to the ground by jump biting or whatever. Then it will swim towards you on the ground and you can do a rudimentary kick lock a la Mr Yeti style.
- Giant cockroach is the hardest one I'd say. Bite it whenever you can. I don't know of a really fast way to do this since it takes to the air after every hit.
- Final boss is dead. Wait forever for it to die. Then go to the right and collect your prize (Gaia). This part was really hilarious with bird and 90% of the forms, but the final form is actually kinda normal looking.

Ok, I typed so much I don't feel like explaining the rest in detail. Human takes forever. Reptile has huge problems with later bosses such as the yetis especially. Here are some bird tips though.

- I don't do any of the bird-exclusive stuff like cloud maze, asteroids, etc. It takes too long and isn't necessary IMHO.
- Although birds fly, fastest means of travel is still dash jump bouncing. Flying is very useful for certain things though, like shortcut in bird fort, flying over dangerous stuff, and rocky terrain.
- Most bosses are way way way easier with bird. You can hover in the air and enemies will treat you differently. Bite locking and repeated charging work really well. No boss is really hard with bird that I can remember.
- I didn't write down when these happen but I wrote down a evolution sequence of stuff (nothing specific for a body part means get whatever is most expensive): dorsal fin, pitsaurus jaws, ptenodon crest, tail, body, tyrasaur jaws, neck, armored body.

Happy evolving!

Yeah Aqua, could we get another week please? I know if nothing else, Breakdown would appreciate a tourney week to focus on Strider, and I want to see if I can discuss Liquid Kids with anyone.

55:53 - Enhasa - ALL

I went mammal, and this time could come down more, but this game is absolutely brutal to run. I still don't know what a perfect time would look like. I just checked tasvideos, and there is a WIP with the bird in "less than 42 minutes of input." He thinks reptile is fastest, but wants bird to win for the entertainment. I haven't watched it yet. Actually I haven't checked out anything about this game yet this week, including FAQs or the current thread with soteos strats (I think he said bird is fastest).

PS the funniest thing about this game is how completely uneducational it is. I can't think of any game that would actually do more to harm a kid's knowledge of any subject than this game and evolution. But hey, I don't play games to LARN things, I play awesome games where you bounce on horses.

Here are some assorted tips.

- Evolving and using green crystal recover full HP. You can cheat death at 0 HP if you're fast too.
- You can hit R to return to the overworld. This is a key trick that needs to be used whenever applicable, but it isn't extremely obvious.
- Gulping (X) can be useful for eating food at the right height and also resetting a jump, allowing you to land on the highest platform. It also lets you bounce twice, but I don't think that actually matters for running.
- Just some terminology. I use bite (Y), ram (dash with horn), bounce (B jump and land on top like Mario), kick (A with mammal), and charge (dash A). Bite does bite damage, ram does horn damage (breaks in 3 uses, gets recharged by evolving just like HP), bounce does strength / 2 damage rounded down but at least 1, kick does kick damage, charge does strength damage. There's also a strike which does strike damage, but that involves human path which doesn't matter for running.
- You can only hold one green crystal at a time. I relearned this the hard way.
- Dash jumping is generally fastest, and bouncing is very desirable when you can do it. It's more important than always holding on to forward.
- When in water, traveling along the top is useful because you can jump out the top out of the water.

Here is my mammal route. It takes exactly 0 time fighting anyone who isn't necessary.

ch1

- Once I did the whole chapter without triggering the jellyfish dialogue. That is way too luck-based for this comp, but I could see it for SDA.
- Eat the yellow crystal and immediately R exit. BTW this is the only yellow crystal you need to eat in the whole game.
- Eat the red crystal and hope for the eel instead of the ray. I reset if I get ray, it's up to you though. R exit.
- Kill dudes in the undersea volcano and if you get 2 green meat, you'll have 500 before you run out of ray. If you don't, it's up to you if you want to restart, but it's not a catastrophe. Evolve kura fin. Try to stay near either edge, preferably at the top. You can exit out either side ASAP when the volcano erupts, doesn't have to be to the right.
- Go to the right in the cave and get the 500 blue crystal. Evolve tackle fin. Go back and clear the cave. Try to limit the number of dashes you have to make. There's really an art to it that comes from experience. Good luck and watch out at the volcano part. It's like Gradius nostalgia.
- If you have both upgrades, you can dash past the [url=http://images.google.com/images?q=nautiloid]nautiloids[/url] (look like Titanic Lancer from Darius Gaiden only not titanic, hah). Otherwise you either need to lure them like upsidedown thwomps from Mario, or kill them if you need the exp to reach 500. If you still don't have enough, kill a shark or two.
- The way I kill the shark boss is to charge. You can lure him to charge at you and whiff, and then punish. Or you can actually get him in a loop on the lower section at the right. There's food if you really need it, and it's easy if you're not being reckless, but unfortunately speedrunning is reckless business.
- Evolve kura tail and save in slot 1 (saving your form of course, not the game itself) with no name.

ch2

- Go and get the green crystal.
- When the boss starts, jump to the right and fall down to the slightly raised platform, then move left a little so you don't get landed on. Now since you are above the boss, he will never spit, just jump. Transform to fish and lock him in a charge cycle as he jumps over you to the left and right. When he's dead, which will be very soon, there's a specific spot to stand on to trigger the thankful dude and little kid. Don't jump over that.
- Use fish until it runs out. When it does, spend all 400 exp on Kerii and power tail.
- Go to the bee cave and eat the dying dude for great justice. Evolve jumping fin. Kill all the larvae (by charging). Try to stay to the right so you can jump on the king bee when it comes out. Basically, I know it can be faster in many places to just chain bite, but it's so much riskier and more expensive (since many upgrades help both agility and strength, while bite is separate). This hurts me for bees mainly, but I don't farm any so I think it's a plus. Anyway I walk to avoid stingers and bee charge, punish with charge. Then jump and try to score in some free bounce hits. You have to look to see if the bee is low enough. Repeat and win.
- Evolve thorny spring tail. Bounce on the dragonfly for lulz and speed on the way out. Thanks little guy.
- Pick up the green crystal in the desert. It should be right where you land anyway.
- You won't be jumping on queen bee, just charging. She is high enough that you can just walk back and forth under her to avoid the 3 stingers. Evolve big horn (yeah, even horns have a use in this run) and save amphibian to slot 1, overwriting fish.

ch3

- Take the south path. When you come to the green crystal, jump up and right before you eat it, transform to amphibian. Time is precious, so blaze through the stages.
- When you get to the frog boss (very reminiscent of Umihara Kawase actually), ram it with your horns as much as possible. I've gotten all 3 hits, but even 0 is ok. When it runs out, immediately transform again. Ram 3x again. Then lock the boss in a boss jumps, you charge cycle. You are extremely fast so you should actually wait a bit for the boss to pass you in the air before you dash. The timing is extremely lenient because the charge hitbox is so good. The frog can essentially land on you and still get hit, just make sure the charge is activated.
- Afterwards, it's evolution party time. You get a ton of exp, 2000 in fact. Evolve pitsaurus jaws, pronesaurus fin, snake tail, and ptenodon crest.
- This is where the route starts to branch off depending on what final evolution you want. I'll continue with mammal and list less in detail for other animals later.
- When entering the t-rex domain, grab the green crystal. Then start charging t-rexes. I know you can chain bite but this is extremely risky since one t-rex bite kills you from full, and once again, the route is setup for charging. Charging is fast anyway. If you get to the end of the map, I think it's faster to jump over and charge towards the middle again. It's your call but that's my opinion. If you get lucky, or maybe there's some skill, you can attack 2 t-rexes simultaneously if they overlap.
- Anyway, once you get 1000, evolve 2 legs once. Reptile gets both 2 legs evolutions and it is hella sexy with agility and jump, but the purpose here is something different that will come up later. Once you get the next 1000, evolve tora jaws. Then save your reptile on slot 2.

ch4

- Go into the cave and turn into a mammal. Exit and then R exit.
- Next cave, enter and exit, then R exit.
- I take the path through the mountain, not over it. Both have green crystals. That might just be a holdover from when I was going reptile, but I still get the impression it's faster with mammal. With bird, it might be over the mountain, I'm not sure, but I would still go inside with bird actually. Saves overworld time and is much easier. Anyway, jump up to the green crystal (perfect height again) and transform to amphibian right before you eat it.
- Go as far as you can with amphibian until it runs out. This happens to me near the seal in the north pole.
- The mammoths are deadly and "easy" if you get the setup right, tough as nails otherwise. This is really tight, get ready. As mammal, get up in his face, taking bubble damage. Evolve into reptile and just start biting the crap out of him like your life depends on it (which it does). With 2 legs, your bite keeps you in place, allowing for chain biting.
- As soon as one mammoth is dead, jump to the left until trigger, then land back to the right next to the next mammoth, taking bubble damage. Then bite away again. During the third and last mammoth, reptile will run out.
- Moment of truth time for mammal. Depending on how fast you set everything up earlier, you might want to steal a few bite hits with mammal before you upgrade. Hopefully it's not necessary. Evolve rabbit jaws. Now kick the mammoth. It should almost be dead, but you can keep it kick locked if it's pinned at the edge of the screen.
- Worst celebration party ever. Nothing to evolve! Don't fight the girl mammoth obviously (ps I love how females in this game are always pink).
- Jump up and touch the ice as high as possible for a split-second time savings, oh boy. The way to deal with the stegosaurus riders is to charge them, then dash jump over them.
- The first flying swordsbird can be run past. If they are the same height you should jump, and if they are charging with sword, jump back and do it early. Path you take is actually the fastest one you can do with your current form, no shortcuts, but funny enough, this takes you right by a green crystal that you eat. The path is forward, down and left, down and left, same teleporter.
- Try to get the bird king against the wall on the left. You can lure him there while as a mammal. When you're ready, change to reptile and chain bite. It doesn't work so well here as mammoths. Give yourself a bit of distance but you still might be knocked down. I think it went flawlessly once and he died, but probably your reptile will run out. Mammal moment of truth again. Kick the bird king until he's dead, shouldn't be too long. Watership Down is victorious!
- With 2000 exp gained, evolve horse jaws and horse body. Now you are a little awesome kicking machine who runs like the wind.
- Fight the yetis. Mr. Yeti is an absolute joke with current form. He'll just keep jumping at you like some scrubby sf4 player. Anti-air him over and over again with kick lock until he is dead.
- Mrs. Yeti has jugs. She's actually an infinitely tougher boss due to insane clap attack as well as ice breath. What you need to do here is lure her to the edge and kick lock. You can also kick her over there by jumping and then using a bit of the resulting invincibility to kick. That's useful in general I guess. Evolve bull horn after the fight. If you can't do it now, just do it whenever you can. It's not terribly important but it does help out a lot (+5 str, +5 hp, +7 def).

ch5

- Blaze through all these stages. As a mammal, I think you have to go in the water for each water stage. Horse bouncing is particularly hilarious.
- Grizzlies are something to watch out for since they jump high. Just be careful and realize they're not as easy as most of the other animals while dash jumping. Forget chain bouncing. You need to pass them near the apex of your jumps.
- Skip the 5000 exp blue crystal in condor land. You don't need it.
- I was kinda afraid monkey and dino caves would be hard without bird but actually they're not. Make your way to the yeti. He's kinda tough but again the trick is to kick lock him next to the screen edge. To get him there, you can charge when he whiffs his set of punches or lure him. If you need to, of course now you have the exp to switch necks for hp.
- Go into the ocean. Sadly, no exp for mermaid available, but it's not needed plus you don't need to sit through all the transformations.
- Rogon boss is cake. Who cares if you get hit by the blinding light, it only does 1 damage and vision is unnecessary here. Kick him and he will go flying towards the bottom left of the map. Go there and it's an easy kick lock.
- No need to fight the queen bee of course.
- Against cro-magnon, jump bite to get up in his face and then kick lock him at the entrance of the cave. If he escapes, it's an easy deal, just tap left and continue kick locking.
- Final boss time, guy looks like a huge cell or paramecium or whatever. Now it's time to become a tank just like in a Metal Warriors run. Evolve fierce jaws, mane, and rhinocerous body for some added hp and defense. If you are super pro and never getting hit and have balls of steel, you can stay with horse body since it's faster, but yeah I really don't recommend that. Use your remaining exp to switch between long and short neck for hp recovery. There are actually differences and at times you want long neck and at times you want short, but it's not a huge deal and I don't switch just for that, I hope to get lucky.
- Final boss sits there with its phallic nose. Position yourself perfectly, remember this is an SNES game so the hitbox is what you see. Then jump up and bite. All the substages will have to be cycled through and the order is random. At times, the boss will take male enhancement pills and super extend its nose. This is dangerous since you will be preoccupied, but the best way to handle this is to kick since kick comes out quickly plus protects your backside while you are busy.
- Ignore the food if you can, which unless you are doing terribly you should be able to. Some enemies are cake like the dino and birdman, which you chain bite. For the first amphibian boss, kick locking is best even though you're not a horse anymore. You can try biting but he loves to spit gunk at you. Jump bite the jellyfish. For the fish, first get it to the ground by jump biting or whatever. Then it will swim towards you on the ground and you can do a rudimentary kick lock a la Mr Yeti style.
- Giant cockroach is the hardest one I'd say. Bite it whenever you can. I don't know of a really fast way to do this since it takes to the air after every hit.
- Final boss is dead. Wait forever for it to die. Then go to the right and collect your prize (Gaia). This part was really hilarious with bird and 90% of the forms, but the final form is actually kinda normal looking.

Ok, I typed so much I don't feel like explaining the rest in detail. Human takes forever. Reptile has huge problems with later bosses such as the yetis especially. Here are some bird tips though.

- I don't do any of the bird-exclusive stuff like cloud maze, asteroids, etc. It takes too long and isn't necessary IMHO.
- Although birds fly, fastest means of travel is still dash jump bouncing. Flying is very useful for certain things though, like shortcut in bird fort, flying over dangerous stuff, and rocky terrain.
- Most bosses are way way way easier with bird. You can hover in the air and enemies will treat you differently. Bite locking and repeated charging work really well. No boss is really hard with bird that I can remember.
- I didn't write down when these happen but I wrote down a evolution sequence of stuff (nothing specific for a body part means get whatever is most expensive): dorsal fin, pitsaurus jaws, ptenodon crest, tail, body, tyrasaur jaws, neck, armored body.

Happy evolving!

mikwuyma

2009-03-27 09:50:34 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Quote from Enhasa:

Yeah Aqua, could we get another week please? I know if nothing else, Breakdown would appreciate a tourney week to focus on Strider, and I want to see if I can discuss Liquid Kids with anyone.

You know I'd so play Liquid Kids. I just have to get motivated enough to finish Cadillacs and Dinosaurs. :-/ I know beat 'em up week is over Aqua, I just want to 1cc the game with a fast time.

In other words, yes, I would like an extra week for the bonus games.

Enhasa

2009-03-27 01:26:47 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

I just realized that EVO is in fact educational. It shows you how to handle the situation of someone extending their massive elongated phallus towards your backside with malicious intent. You must stay calm and deliver a focused backwards kick to send the message that no means no.

AquaTiger

2009-03-27 02:02:27 pm

Never give up!

Alright. Let's make it official now.

Bonus games have been granted another week. You have until April 6th for both Strider and Liquid Kids.

That is all I have to say on this matter.

Zealie

2009-03-28 10:45:48 am

I actually have gone bird route, but there are some things I wanted to point out about stuff you said. (that I know of ;p)

Quote from Enhasa:

Here is my mammal route. It takes exactly 0 time fighting anyone who isn't necessary.

ch1

- Once I did the whole chapter without triggering the jellyfish dialogue. That is way too luck-based for this comp, but I could see it for SDA.

I've managed to avoid it once in the first level, but then the next jellyfish you meet will get that dialogue.
How in the world do you avoid those jellyfish in the 2nd level without losing more time then the dialogue takes? Shocked

Also there is one level with 4 jellyfish in front of the entrance, I don't know if the dialogue would still work then but there is no way you could avoid them.

Quote:

- Eat the red crystal and hope for the eel instead of the ray. I reset if I get ray, it's up to you though. R exit.

I actually also attack the 2 green slimes (not sure if it's faster) once and then eat the red crystal and then kill the 4 little dudes that spawnd out of the big green slime, so you'll get 80 evo points pretty fast. (or more if you're lucky in getting a rare meat)

Quote:

- Kill dudes in the undersea volcano and if you get 2 green meat, you'll have 500 before you run out of ray. If you don't, it's up to you if you want to restart, but it's not a catastrophe. Evolve kura fin. Try to stay near either edge, preferably at the top. You can exit out either side ASAP when the volcano erupts, doesn't have to be to the right.

Maybe also noteworthy, I found that the dialogue will only pop up if there is no fish and/or meat on screen.

Quote:

- The way I kill the shark boss is to charge. You can lure him to charge at you and whiff, and then punish. Or you can actually get him in a loop on the lower section at the right. There's food if you really need it, and it's easy if you're not being reckless, but unfortunately speedrunning is reckless business.

Well I always managed to get the strongest jaws (am not saying it's faster), but if you got them you can start an attack before the dialogue pops up and if you are in bite mode once the dialouge pops up he will swim into your mouth. If you just button mash the bite button he should just keep running into your mouth and will be very easy and fast to kill.

Quote:

ch2

- Go and get the green crystal.
- When the boss starts, jump to the right and fall down to the slightly raised platform, then move left a little so you don't get landed on. Now since you are above the boss, he will never spit, just jump. Transform to fish and lock him in a charge cycle as he jumps over you to the left and right. When he's dead, which will be very soon, there's a specific spot to stand on to trigger the thankful dude and little kid. Don't jump over that.
- Use fish until it runs out. When it does, spend all 400 exp on Kerii and power tail.
- Go to the bee cave and eat the dying dude for great justice. Evolve jumping fin. Kill all the larvae (by charging). Try to stay to the right so you can jump on the king bee when it comes out. Basically, I know it can be faster in many places to just chain bite, but it's so much riskier and more expensive (since many upgrades help both agility and strength, while bite is separate). This hurts me for bees mainly, but I don't farm any so I think it's a plus. Anyway I walk to avoid stingers and bee charge, punish with charge. Then jump and try to score in some free bounce hits. You have to look to see if the bee is low enough. Repeat and win.
- Evolve thorny spring tail. Bounce on the dragonfly for lulz and speed on the way out. Thanks little guy.
- Pick up the green crystal in the desert. It should be right where you land anyway.
- You won't be jumping on queen bee, just charging. She is high enough that you can just walk back and forth under her to avoid the 3 stingers. Evolve big horn (yeah, even horns have a use in this run) and save amphibian to slot 1, overwriting fish.

I did most things differently. (I didn't use fish and saved up for a kepler horn or something to increase biting before battling the first boss). So I don't take that first green crystal and skip the whole stage. I also walk slowly in that cockroach stage so I got enough for the strongest jaws when fighting the bee king. I personally find it very easy to 'lock' the final (queen) bee with biting. The bee king is a bit more difficult but it's manageable (sometimes ;p). Biting does 15 dmg iirc.
I also don't use horn and save it with springy thorn tail, those wings, that kepler thing and the strongest jaws.

Quote:

- I take the path through the mountain, not over it. Both have green crystals. That might just be a holdover from when I was going reptile, but I still get the impression it's faster with mammal. With bird, it might be over the mountain, I'm not sure, but I would still go inside with bird actually. Saves overworld time and is much easier. Anyway, jump up to the green crystal (perfect height again) and transform to amphibian right before you eat it.

Inside the mountain is always faster, also with bird. At least that was the case when I tried to time it Smiley

Most other stuff I can't really comment on since I have not even tried running like that, so I won't bother commenting.

Quote:

- Ignore the food if you can, which unless you are doing terribly you should be able to.

I do have to say I'm 100% certain that if the meat is on screen (or somewhere in the middle) the hits you do on the blob do not count. They start counting once the meat is gone/you ate it. I'm not sure if this is also the case when the meat is all the way to the left, but my guess is it is. I did find that your hit does register if he extends his neck or w/e and you bite/hit him while fighting the other boss. But I might have dreamt that last part.

One last thing I'm doubting about is that I'm not entirely sure if running/springing is faster then just flying when being a bird. But I haven't really tested this out so I can't say much about it.

Don't have any more time atm to write more about stuff.
Also, I have tried several ways (when going as bird) of running the level, but to me the fastest way still same going in maze cloud and getting dragon and the 9999 exp blue crystal. Maybe I missed something, I don't know. If so I'd be happy to hear it :D.

I actually have gone bird route, but there are some things I wanted to point out about stuff you said. (that I know of ;p)

[quote="Enhasa"]

Here is my mammal route. It takes exactly 0 time fighting anyone who isn't necessary.

ch1

- Once I did the whole chapter without triggering the jellyfish dialogue. That is way too luck-based for this comp, but I could see it for SDA.
[/quote]
I've managed to avoid it once in the first level, but then the next jellyfish you meet will get that dialogue. 
How in the world do you avoid those jellyfish in the 2nd level without losing more time then the dialogue takes? :o
Also there is one level with 4 jellyfish in front of the entrance, I don't know if the dialogue would still work then but there is no way you could avoid them.

[quote]
- Eat the red crystal and hope for the eel instead of the ray. I reset if I get ray, it's up to you though. R exit.[/quote]
I actually also attack the 2 green slimes (not sure if it's faster) once and then eat the red crystal and then kill the 4 little dudes that spawnd out of the big green slime, so you'll get 80 evo points pretty fast. (or more if you're lucky in getting a rare meat)
[quote]
- Kill dudes in the undersea volcano and if you get 2 green meat, you'll have 500 before you run out of ray. If you don't, it's up to you if you want to restart, but it's not a catastrophe. Evolve kura fin. Try to stay near either edge, preferably at the top. You can exit out either side ASAP when the volcano erupts, doesn't have to be to the right.[/quote]
Maybe also noteworthy, I found that the dialogue will only pop up if there is no fish and/or meat on screen.
[quote]
- The way I kill the shark boss is to charge. You can lure him to charge at you and whiff, and then punish. Or you can actually get him in a loop on the lower section at the right. There's food if you really need it, and it's easy if you're not being reckless, but unfortunately speedrunning is reckless business.[/quote]
Well I always managed to get the strongest jaws (am not saying it's faster), but if you got them you can start an attack before the dialogue pops up and if you are in bite mode once the dialouge pops up he will swim into your mouth. If you just button mash the bite button he should just keep running into your mouth and will be very easy and fast to kill.

[quote]ch2

- Go and get the green crystal.
- When the boss starts, jump to the right and fall down to the slightly raised platform, then move left a little so you don't get landed on. Now since you are above the boss, he will never spit, just jump. Transform to fish and lock him in a charge cycle as he jumps over you to the left and right. When he's dead, which will be very soon, there's a specific spot to stand on to trigger the thankful dude and little kid. Don't jump over that.
- Use fish until it runs out. When it does, spend all 400 exp on Kerii and power tail.
- Go to the bee cave and eat the dying dude for great justice. Evolve jumping fin. Kill all the larvae (by charging). Try to stay to the right so you can jump on the king bee when it comes out. Basically, I know it can be faster in many places to just chain bite, but it's so much riskier and more expensive (since many upgrades help both agility and strength, while bite is separate). This hurts me for bees mainly, but I don't farm any so I think it's a plus. Anyway I walk to avoid stingers and bee charge, punish with charge. Then jump and try to score in some free bounce hits. You have to look to see if the bee is low enough. Repeat and win.
- Evolve thorny spring tail. Bounce on the dragonfly for lulz and speed on the way out. Thanks little guy.
- Pick up the green crystal in the desert. It should be right where you land anyway.
- You won't be jumping on queen bee, just charging. She is high enough that you can just walk back and forth under her to avoid the 3 stingers. Evolve big horn (yeah, even horns have a use in this run) and save amphibian to slot 1, overwriting fish.
[/quote]
I did most things differently. (I didn't use fish and saved up for a kepler horn or something to increase biting before battling the first boss). So I don't take that first green crystal and skip the whole stage. I also walk slowly in that cockroach stage so I got enough for the strongest jaws when fighting the bee king. I personally find it very easy to 'lock' the final (queen) bee with biting. The bee king is a bit more difficult but it's manageable (sometimes ;p). Biting does 15 dmg iirc.
I also don't use horn and save it with springy thorn tail, those wings, that kepler thing and the strongest jaws.

[quote]- I take the path through the mountain, not over it. Both have green crystals. That might just be a holdover from when I was going reptile, but I still get the impression it's faster with mammal. With bird, it might be over the mountain, I'm not sure, but I would still go inside with bird actually. Saves overworld time and is much easier. Anyway, jump up to the green crystal (perfect height again) and transform to amphibian right before you eat it.[/quote]
Inside the mountain is always faster, also with bird. At least that was the case when I tried to time it :)

Most other stuff I can't really comment on since I have not even tried running like that, so I won't bother commenting.

[quote]- Ignore the food if you can, which unless you are doing terribly you should be able to.[/quote] 
I do have to say I'm 100% certain that if the meat is on screen (or somewhere in the middle) the hits you do on the blob do not count. They start counting once the meat is gone/you ate it. I'm not sure if this is also the case when the meat is all the way to the left, but my guess is it is. I did find that your hit does register if he extends his neck or w/e and you bite/hit him while fighting the other boss. But I might have dreamt that last part.

One last thing I'm doubting about is that I'm not entirely sure if running/springing is faster then just flying when being a bird. But I haven't really tested this out so I can't say much about it.

Don't have any more time atm to write more about stuff. 
Also, I have tried several ways (when going as bird) of running the level, but to me the fastest way still same going in maze cloud and getting dragon and the 9999 exp blue crystal. Maybe I missed something, I don't know. If so I'd be happy to hear it :D.

Enhasa

2009-03-28 11:50:13 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Awesome, someone else talking EVO (although I was also talking to Normand and Breakdown online, thanks guys).

Quote from ZaibirQuild:

I've managed to avoid it once in the first level, but then the next jellyfish you meet will get that dialogue.

I'm saying that once somehow all the jellyfish in the entire ch1 were out of my way so I never saw the dialogue. No manipulation.

Quote from ZaibirQuild:

I do have to say I'm 100% certain that if the meat is on screen (or somewhere in the middle) the hits you do on the blob do not count.

Sorry, I was extremely unclear. In that section I was listing all the different substages of the boss and when I said ignore the food, I mean ignore the green meat that comes from the one boss orb.

Quote from ZaibirQuild:

Also, I have tried several ways (when going as bird) of running the level, but to me the fastest way still same going in maze cloud and getting dragon and the 9999 exp blue crystal. Maybe I missed something, I don't know. If so I'd be happy to hear it :D.

Nothing other than, it takes a long time to get and doesn't really help you enough to make up for it. The dragon especially. The only thing I could see is getting 9999 for immediate tyrasaur jaws, but I still doubt that since you get more than enough exp and you are just wasting it in the end.

Awesome, someone else talking EVO (although I was also talking to Normand and Breakdown online, thanks guys).

[quote="ZaibirQuild"]
I've managed to avoid it once in the first level, but then the next jellyfish you meet will get that dialogue.[/quote]
I'm saying that once somehow all the jellyfish in the entire ch1 were out of my way so I never saw the dialogue. No manipulation.

[quote="ZaibirQuild"]I do have to say I'm 100% certain that if the meat is on screen (or somewhere in the middle) the hits you do on the blob do not count.[/quote]
Sorry, I was extremely unclear. In that section I was listing all the different substages of the boss and when I said ignore the food, I mean ignore the green meat that comes from the one boss orb.

[quote="ZaibirQuild"]Also, I have tried several ways (when going as bird) of running the level, but to me the fastest way still same going in maze cloud and getting dragon and the 9999 exp blue crystal. Maybe I missed something, I don't know. If so I'd be happy to hear it :D.[/quote]
Nothing other than, it takes a long time to get and doesn't really help you enough to make up for it. The dragon especially. The only thing I could see is getting 9999 for immediate tyrasaur jaws, but I still doubt that since you get more than enough exp and you are just wasting it in the end.

Zealie

2009-03-29 04:12:26 am

Well, maybe it's me, but I have the hardest time ever with last boss green fish when not in dragon mode (if I'm bird)
and it certainly saves a lot of secs when you are dragon (including the transforming). Although I just realise you can transform in amphibian then which should make the boss very easy...
But thinking about it maybe you are right that skipping dragon is faster...
(My strategy was mostly transform to dragon against bosses that needed to be killed so you can keep normal mouth for a while (tyrannosaurus mouth is -3 agility). So you'll have 20 agility (which is the highest possible) and can skip a lot stages pretty fast.
I started using the mouth when arriving at the mammoths.
But I'll try and see if not going for dragon at all can be a good shortcut... It might save some time indeed.

About the green food, iirc your hits will also not count on the boss until that food is gone. (side note: With bird I need to bite 4 times 20 dmg and in dragon form it's 3 times 30 dmg, So I'm guessing you have to do about 90 dmg to him before he releases another orb)
However with the white orb (where that dino comes out that runs away) it did always count from the beginning on I believe.
Even it it didn't the dino running away is probably shorter then killing it and eating his meat.

1 more thing I just found out (don't save too much time, but a second is a second ;p) when in chapter 4 and just killed the mammoths and you are backtracking to the bird stage. When you are on the tyrannosaurus stage and press left you go to the bird stage, so you
don't have to go via the brontosaurus stage. This worked in bird mode, don't know if it's also possible in mammal, but my guess is it is.

*insta-update* not going for dragon will save up to 30 secs up until the mammoths. So I'm not counting any bosses that would have died sooner with dragon afterwards, but if you're really skilled and good with bird that wouldn't be many considering the pretty long time it takes to evolve.
Maybe I suck too much with less xp that's why I need that tyrannosaurus mouth from the beginning XD. ah well...
Didn't have any time to look at other strats...

Well, maybe it's me, but I have the hardest time ever with last boss green fish when not in dragon mode (if I'm bird)
and it certainly saves a lot of secs when you are dragon (including the transforming). Although I just realise you can transform in amphibian then which should make the boss very easy...
But thinking about it maybe you are right that skipping dragon is faster...
(My strategy was mostly transform to dragon against bosses that needed to be killed so you can keep normal mouth for a while (tyrannosaurus mouth is -3 agility). So you'll have 20 agility (which is the highest possible) and can skip a lot stages pretty fast.
I started using the mouth when arriving at the mammoths. 
But I'll try and see if not going for dragon at all can be a good shortcut... It might save some time indeed.

About the green food, iirc your hits will also not count on the boss until that food is gone. (side note: With bird I need to bite 4 times 20 dmg and in dragon form it's 3 times 30 dmg, So I'm guessing you have to do about 90 dmg to him before he releases another orb)
However with the white orb (where that dino comes out that runs away) it did always count from the beginning on I believe.
Even it it didn't the dino running away is probably shorter then killing it and eating his meat.

1 more thing I just found out (don't save too much time, but a second is a second ;p) when in chapter 4 and just killed the mammoths and you are  backtracking to the bird stage. When you are on the tyrannosaurus stage and press left you go to the bird stage, so you 
don't have to go via the brontosaurus stage. This worked in bird mode, don't know if it's also possible in mammal, but my guess is it is.

*insta-update* not going for dragon will save up to 30 secs up until the mammoths. So I'm not counting any bosses that would have died sooner with dragon afterwards, but if you're really skilled and good with bird that wouldn't be many considering the pretty long time it takes to evolve. 
Maybe I suck too much with less xp that's why I need that tyrannosaurus mouth from the beginning XD. ah well... 
Didn't have any time to look at other strats...

Enhasa

2009-03-29 11:49:22 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Yes, but with the green food on the final boss, you have to leave your position, go pick up the food, and come back. With tank mammal who is pretty slow, I think it's better to just stay there. With bird like you are going, it might be a different story.

AquaTiger

2009-03-30 01:54:46 pm

Never give up!

E.V.O.'s competition time has run out. And without me really having the time to make an attempt.

Now it's up to the bonus games.

Breakdown

Edit history:

Breakdown: 2009-04-01 05:59:48 am

2009-03-31 03:26:33 am

Haters gonna hate

For Strider:

~~11:05 - Breakdown - ALL~~

2 deaths late in stage 5 (probably would've reset if the first one came any earlier). Probably set me back about a minute, and I wasn't exactly flawless to that point.

Breakdown

2009-04-01 05:59:24 am

Haters gonna hate

I know, I know, double posting is bad, but I think this is bump worthy.

Strider:

9:50 - Breakdown - ALL

Not perfect, but pretty good all around and death free. I'm pretty satisfied with this; think I'm done for the week, though might give Liquid Kids a go.

Enhasa

2009-04-07 12:21:06 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Is this a wrap? Vaguely curious to see the final results.

AquaTiger

2009-04-07 03:13:40 am

Never give up!

Technically, it is, but I just haven't had my mind on it.

Will do the wrap-up later today.