Rayman Legends (PC) Planning

2013-09-10 04:59:23 pm

It's been mentioned before, but I'd really like to see a central google doc or the like with a leaderboard. Even better, include spreadsheets of teensie times and routes (if people want to submit them) to help people figure out what route they want to use. All this stuff is changing pretty quickly and it would be nice to have everything in one place.

spikevegeta

2013-09-10 08:50:28 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

So sadly after comparing my vod with goose's vod, it looks like PS3 loses roughly 1 second per entering level loading screen and 3-4 on leaving level load screens. I haven't compared the whole run, so I don't know if maybe the invasion levels lose less time, but it looks like at least PS3 loses in the ballpark of 2-2:30 to load times. Doesn't matter for me, as I'm planning on getting a better PC to run this anyways, but it's important to note for future runners.

Edit history:

UberGoose: 2013-09-11 07:54:43 pm

UberGoose: 2013-09-11 05:32:25 pm

2013-09-11 05:14:05 pm

So close to sub 1:45, we are likely to see sub 1:40 by next week.

Now this run was pretty much red the whole time until time trials, so I can still work a lot on W1 and 2. Overall I feel pretty good though, hopefully someone beats this soon Wink

Also, disregard the (T) it was my preliminary ticket route, but you can get like 12 easily, so wherever works for you.

EDIT: Also in case anyone doesn't already do the fast strat for 5-6, here is a nice little guide I made to help visualize it.

2013-09-11 11:07:20 pm

Ganondorf = Donkey Kong LOOK IT UP!!

5-1 Shields Up... and Down Invaded in 30.24

I think we can all agree, fuck this invasion.
Will be right with you guys with the full-game stuff ^^ Good work with the strat finds.

2013-09-12 02:04:08 am

Ganondorf = Donkey Kong LOOK IT UP!!

I take back everything about 5-1. It's most consistent and friendly level evar.
2-5 When Toads Fly Invaded in 22.96.

This level is L I T E R A L L Y random. Every platform moves off its own accord and goes on different cycles EVERY ATTEMPT. EVEN THE GOD DAMN VINES MOVE AT RANDOM. The fact this level sits at the end of any% I imagine is going to cause absolute disaster for a number of runs. Be freaking careful with this one guys.

Twyn

2013-09-12 03:19:58 am

Cryptic : this level is absolute nightmare, I think a lot of runs are going to end right here.

Edit history:

CrypticJacknife: 2013-09-12 04:20:45 am

CrypticJacknife: 2013-09-12 04:19:41 am

CrypticJacknife: 2013-09-12 04:17:39 am

CrypticJacknife: 2013-09-12 04:17:19 am

2013-09-12 04:16:44 am

Ganondorf = Donkey Kong LOOK IT UP!!

Twyn: Most definitely o.o

Everyone: Considering you guys seem to be going on a level-per-split basis, can we make like a universal timing set? Let's say:-

-Timing starts when you select "Yes" in the confirm new game menu. I know Twyn should know (UberGoose is probably aware of this too), if you are going back from a 100% back-up on PC this menu won't appear because it's a fresh slot. So idk maybe timing could alternatively start when the opening cutscene begins?
-Level splits happen when the loading screen begins on exiting a level (? I went by this in my runs to avoid needing to split once I drop out of the painting)
- Boss splits happen at a similiar time? (I know you guys have been splitting on the wind-up punch, I've been doing the same as level splits above, so I guess if you are used to that it can be universal, windows between the wind-up punch and my loading screen split is quite a bit.
- Final timing ends on the wind-up punch on the 5th Magician.
- What about TT times? I notice Twyn marks seperately and Goose marks all invasions as one split. When were you guys hitting those?

Not saying my word needs to be concrete duh, if you guys think there are more convenient points to split by all means post them, so we can work something nice out Smiley

Twyn: Most definitely o.o

Everyone: Considering you guys seem to be going on a level-per-split basis, can we make like a universal timing set? Let's say:-

-Timing starts when you select "Yes" in the confirm new game menu. I know Twyn should know (UberGoose is probably aware of this too), if you are going back from a 100% back-up on PC this menu won't appear because it's a fresh slot. So idk maybe timing could alternatively start when the opening cutscene begins?
-Level splits happen when the loading screen begins on exiting a level (? I went by this in my runs to avoid needing to split once I drop out of the painting)
- Boss splits happen at a similiar time? (I know you guys have been splitting on the wind-up punch, I've been doing the same as level splits above, so I guess if you are used to that it can be universal, windows between the wind-up punch and my loading screen split is quite a bit.
- Final timing ends on the wind-up punch on the 5th Magician.
- What about TT times? I notice Twyn marks seperately and Goose marks all invasions as one split. When were you guys hitting those?

Not saying my word needs to be concrete duh, if you guys think there are more convenient points to split by all means post them, so we can work something nice out :)

2013-09-12 10:02:56 am

I've been doing the same thing as you, Cryptic, splitting on the beginning of the loading screen right after the lum count for both main levels and bosses. I do the invasions on just one split, though I'm only doing the world 1 invasions.

2013-09-12 02:59:09 pm

I agree that timing should begin on a new file being created (hitting continue in the case of a previously existing one), and should end on final input (releasing the punch on the final guy), but where we split doesn't actually matter :X I mean I split at the same times, but we don't need anyone to conform to it, since all that matters is that the start and end are the same.

Also, I really hate world 2 invasions, that is all.

2013-09-12 10:25:07 pm

So as a product of lack of sleep, I've decided to do some movement calculations on how Rayman moves, they are a bit rough but give a good idea on some stuff, I'll be doing more for some other methods of movement, but this is for straightaways:

Rayman is 1 meter tall

Spin:
3 meters
0.5 seconds
6 m/s

Running:
3 meters
0.6 seconds
5 m/s

Spin with pause:
3 meters spin
3 meters run
5.5 m/s

Spin with roll:
3 meters spin 54.54%
2.5 meters roll 45.45% (Roll: 0.45 seconds, 5.555~ m/s)
3.2727~
+2.5252~
=5.7979~ m/s

Walking:
2.5 meters
0.8 seconds
3.125 m/s

So you can see that the fastest way to move over long distances of flatland is marginally in favor of running and rolling instead of just running (which was my first guess ;)) but if you are only moving 1 spin's distance, it's clearly faster to spin. Also worth noting is that spinning has infinite acceleration, no matter what you will be moving full speed on a spin (unless you get a standing spin, which I'm currently looking into), so don't be afraid to spin a lot.

Next thing I'm going to work on is how sliding and slopes work, my physics boner is already tingling.

So as a product of lack of sleep, I've decided to do some movement calculations on how Rayman moves, they are a bit rough but give a good idea on some stuff, I'll be doing more for some other methods of movement, but this is for straightaways:
[hidden]Rayman is 1 meter tall

Spin:
3 meters
0.5 seconds
6 m/s

Running:
3 meters
0.6 seconds
5 m/s

Spin with pause:
3 meters spin
3 meters run
5.5 m/s

Spin with roll:
3 meters spin 54.54%
2.5 meters roll 45.45% (Roll: 0.45 seconds, 5.555~ m/s)
   3.2727~
+2.5252~
=5.7979~ m/s

Walking:
2.5 meters
0.8 seconds
3.125 m/s[/hidden]

So you can see that the fastest way to move over long distances of flatland is marginally in favor of running and rolling instead of just running (which was my first guess ;)) but if you are only moving 1 spin's distance, it's clearly faster to spin. Also worth noting is that spinning has infinite acceleration, no matter what you will be moving full speed on a spin (unless you get a standing spin, which I'm currently looking into), so don't be afraid to spin a lot.

Next thing I'm going to work on is how sliding and slopes work, my physics boner is already tingling.

2013-09-13 12:29:04 am

Ganondorf = Donkey Kong LOOK IT UP!!

Quote:

Also worth noting is that spinning has infinite acceleration, no matter what you will be moving full speed on a spin (unless you get a standing spin, which I'm currently looking into), so don't be afraid to spin a lot.

Standing spin may be a misleading term. You can get hooked onto the unideal slope or surface and get a similiar result even off what looks like will result in full acceleration.

Also, to all those who have said Cryptic rolling isn't that important through Origins, still think that way? Lmao.

I think conform is a way over-the-top term to use here dude come on haha. I don't mean it so to avoid some people timing longer or whatnot, but it allows for easy comparison let's saaaay if I were to take your splits and use them as a WR reference. A universal timing would be FOR accuracy of level comparison. If there isn't anything universal shit, I could split at any time between hitting the final gate to falling out of the painting. Just seems best imo Smiley

I can already look at your 1:45 splits and I'm genuinely not sure whether your W1 is good or decent. So it could go from me thinking I'm ahead of you to suddenly not being even with a perfect boss fight. Couldn't tell unless I knew where you split the level. You know? Clarity is an important thing when comparing runs imo.

That shite aside though, good work pulling the data on the movement man Cheesy

Lack of sleep can do wondrous things (see most of my ILs)

[quote]Also worth noting is that spinning has infinite acceleration, no matter what you will be moving full speed on a spin (unless you get a standing spin, which I'm currently looking into), so don't be afraid to spin a lot.[/quote]

Standing spin may be a misleading term. You can get hooked onto the unideal slope or surface and get a similiar result even off what looks like will result in full acceleration.

Also, to all those who have said Cryptic rolling isn't that important through Origins, still think that way? Lmao.

I think conform is a way over-the-top term to use here dude come on haha. I don't mean it so to avoid some people timing longer or whatnot, but it allows for easy comparison let's saaaay if I were to take your splits and use them as a WR reference. A universal timing would be FOR accuracy of level comparison. If there isn't anything universal shit, I could split at any time between hitting the final gate to falling out of the painting. Just seems best imo :) I can already look at your 1:45 splits and I'm genuinely not sure whether your W1 is good or decent. So it could go from me thinking I'm ahead of you to suddenly not being even with a perfect boss fight. Couldn't tell unless I knew where you split the level. You know? Clarity is an important thing when comparing runs imo.

That shite aside though, good work pulling the data on the movement man :D Lack of sleep can do wondrous things (see most of my ILs)

2013-09-13 09:44:19 am

Ganondorf = Donkey Kong LOOK IT UP!!

So was anyone else aware that you can outrun the Luchadore in 3-5 to the point where the ending locks up and he never shows up? O_O

Twyn

2013-09-13 03:43:08 pm

Cryptic : "Also, to all those who have said Cryptic rolling isn't that important through Origins, still think that way? Lmao."

There are 2 problems with that statement :
+ you consider that you can do the same dash + roll the same way in origins and legends
+ there are way less flat lands on origins than legends where you actually can use it

Edit history:

CrypticJacknife: 2013-09-14 08:51:28 am

2013-09-14 08:49:21 am

Ganondorf = Donkey Kong LOOK IT UP!!

Soooo after learning the second half of the game and tidying up the routes progression (still going by spike's timing though) I did a run...

Pretty good considering the flaws ^^ Lowlights are W1 being garbage and dying to Mecha Murray like a Trihex (the urge to swag out is too strongk ; - ; )

Still, bottom line is many deaths. Can surely be pushed further on more attempts Cheesy

spikevegeta

2013-09-14 10:11:18 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

So to be clear, there is a new route(same 260 Teensies), but with less gallery travel:

1-1
1-2
1-3
1-4
1-5
1-6
1-B

2-1
2-2
2-P
2-3
2-4
2-5
1-6 Invasion

3-2
3-3
3-4
3-5
3-B

5-1
5-2
5-3
5-5

4-1
4-2
4-4
4-5
4-6
4-B

Geyser Blast
Best Original Score
(Warp to World 2 Invasions)
2-Boss
World 2 Invasions
World 1 Invasions

5-6
5-B

Also, great to hear Cryptic! Are you streaming your attempts, or just recording them?

Edit history:

CrypticJacknife: 2013-09-14 12:41:10 pm

2013-09-14 12:37:00 pm

Ganondorf = Donkey Kong LOOK IT UP!!

Oh huzzah, there goes a little of that menu/gallery time. I got half of this right at least Tongue

Not streaming because net can't handle it. As of THIS run I'm going to start recording and post if I get sub 1:40 or something idk.

DAT MURRAY. Yeah I really fucked up first run there lol. Of note is I by mistake went to 1-3 by going through the 1-2 painting, stupid hitboxes. Then proceeded to forget the princess door, so I did that after 2-3. So swap them idk.
W1 decent
W2 only decent because I didn't die in Toad this time for no reason, otherwise eh
W3 eh
W4 eh (screw 4-5)
W5 decent
Origins+Invasions damn good
Finale perfect 5-6 then died in the lava part at the end of course. Scariest damn darkness fight where I lost a little time to a close call.

Hopefully now you've posted this sweet little optimisation I can shave off a little more along with some improvements Smiley

EDIT: You said you were swapping over to PC? How's that going?

moooh

2013-09-15 02:10:06 am

Exoray

Quote from Acefrog:

So as usual with most PC games you can skip most of the .bik movie files to load the game quicker.. publisher logos etc by just renaming it.

With this method you can skip the intro cutscene on new game as well. I am guessing this would not be allowed? lol

You are guessing correct. This is considered modification of the game files and is not allowed.

Edit history:

UberGoose: 2013-09-17 03:41:28 am

2013-09-17 03:40:47 am

Welp, there it is after 3 days of cryptic having it by 2 seconds.

Ignore the 2-P split, I accidentally did them out of order again ;_; but this run is very improvable, sub 1:40 by this weekend feels feasible. Also, as usual ignore my T's

2013-09-20 07:22:29 pm

Alright, so finally got a good run (by my standards). Still 8 deaths but pretty damn good.

The worst part is, 2 of the deaths were in world 1 and it missed a sub 20 split by 0.2 seconds, so 19:50 split is possible. Sub 1:35 should be possible, but really hard, so I'm really looking forward to whoever is the first to do it.

Emperor_Nero

2013-09-21 10:21:27 am

I just started playing this game and it is incredibly fun. I am going to finish it and then start watching some runs and maybe run it casually.

Edit history:

FearfulFerret: 2013-09-23 09:34:46 pm

FearfulFerret: 2013-09-23 08:27:06 pm

2013-09-22 11:18:02 am

Finished my first full run since all the races we did in the week following release, got a 1:41:16. It had tons of problems later on which I've been practicing a lot since the run. The part I'm most proud of is getting a 19:43 world 1 split (splitting where UberGoose does). Sub-19:40 is possible, maybe 19:30?

EDIT: got 1:37:29. I died on each of the world 2 invasions, costing me over a minute, but final boss was close to perfect. Got 19:41 on world 1, which was absolutely amazing considering I lost ~10 seconds by hitting check it after 1-5. Eleven deaths.

ALSO EDIT: I got 31'99 on Quicksand during my previous PB, but overwrote the save file, so the time is no longer on the leaderboard. Here's the recording: http://www.twitch.tv/fearfulferret/c/2982050

2013-09-26 09:04:34 am

Seeing as I will inevitably choke every run from now on, I decided to time my loads for my 1:37:53. Results are as follows:

1-1 5.5 seconds
1-2 4.73 - 4.85
1-3 4.3 - 5.35
1-4 5.05 - 5.4
1-5 4.3 - 5.4
1-6 4.35 - 5.8
1-B 4.35 - 3.9
63.3

2-1 4.35 - 5.1
2-2 4.35 - 5.95
2-P 2.8 - 6.1
2-3 4.3 - 6.05
2-4 4.3 - 6.05
2-5 4.55 - 5.8
1-6i 3.4 - 5.5
68.6

3-2 4.9 - 5.5
3-3 4.75 - 4.9
3-4 5.2 - 5.85
3-5 4.3 - 5.7
3-B 5.7 - 5.45
52.25

5-1 4.7 - 6.0
5-2 4.3 - 6.1
5-3 4.7 - 6.3
5-5 4.3 - 6.5
42.9

4-1 4.75 - 5.3
4-2 5.75 - 5.9
4-4 4.3 - 5.75
4-5 6.5 - 5.5
4-6 4.3 - 6.45
4-B 4.85 - 4.7
64.05

Geyser 4.6 - 6.05
10.65

TT1 3.65 - 3.7
2 3.25 - 5.6
3 3.15 - 5.7
25.05

2-B 4.25 - 6.3
10.55

Best Original 4.3 - 3.35
7.65

TT4 3.35 - 5.45
5 2.7 - 5.9
6 3.2 - 5.35
7 3.85 - 5.7
35.5

Hell 4.3 - 5.9
END 4.3
14.5

395 TOTAL SECONDS IN LOADING (6:35 minutes)

6:35 in loading times, I'm very curious of how this compares to other people so we can determine if removing loads is necessary.

Also, I had a run that was green by 1:30 and choked it all away on W2 invasions, because I'm amazing at consistency.

Seeing as I will inevitably choke every run from now on, I decided to time my loads for my 1:37:53. Results are as follows:
[hidden]1-1 5.5 seconds
1-2 4.73 - 4.85
1-3 4.3 - 5.35
1-4 5.05 - 5.4
1-5 4.3 - 5.4
1-6 4.35 - 5.8
1-B 4.35 - 3.9
63.3

2-1 4.35 - 5.1
2-2 4.35 - 5.95
2-P 2.8 - 6.1
2-3 4.3 - 6.05
2-4 4.3 - 6.05
2-5 4.55 - 5.8
1-6i 3.4 - 5.5
68.6

3-2 4.9 - 5.5
3-3 4.75 - 4.9
3-4 5.2 - 5.85
3-5 4.3 - 5.7
3-B 5.7 - 5.45
52.25

5-1 4.7 - 6.0
5-2 4.3 - 6.1
5-3 4.7 - 6.3
5-5 4.3 - 6.5
42.9

4-1 4.75 - 5.3
4-2 5.75 - 5.9
4-4 4.3 - 5.75
4-5 6.5 - 5.5
4-6 4.3 - 6.45
4-B 4.85 - 4.7
64.05

Geyser 4.6 - 6.05
10.65

TT1 3.65 - 3.7
2 3.25 - 5.6
3 3.15 - 5.7
25.05

2-B 4.25 - 6.3
10.55

Best Original 4.3 - 3.35
7.65

TT4 3.35 - 5.45
5 2.7 - 5.9
6 3.2 - 5.35
7 3.85 - 5.7
35.5

Hell 4.3 - 5.9
END 4.3
14.5

395 TOTAL SECONDS IN LOADING (6:35 minutes)
[/hidden]

6:35 in loading times, I'm very curious of how this compares to other people so we can determine if removing loads is necessary.

Also, I had a run that was green by 1:30 and choked it all away on W2 invasions, because I'm amazing at consistency.