Max Payne - RTA [51:35]

quadrazid

2011-06-08 03:26:17 pm

That Dead man walking glitch was amazing, nice job.

ridd3r.

Edit history:

ridd3r.: 2011-06-11 04:53:36 am

ridd3r.: 2011-06-11 04:52:53 am

ridd3r.: 2011-06-10 01:06:19 pm

2011-06-10 01:05:31 pm

we have lift off

Part 1, Chapter 1:

Dead man walking glitch is now active! I now have to do like 5 levels with just 1 segment each as I can't quick save. Chapter 1 was hard though so I'm glad that's out of the way.

Also note new method for DMW glitch, I didn't stay under the barrier. I'm now convinced it's a deathline causing it. If I'm right that means there's no other place to activate it.

EDIT: I've finally created the Speedrunwiki page for Max Payne. It contains a complete list of tricks and some general notes on the different run categories. I haven't gone in-depth on the guns and strats, but I think I'll let my runs do the talking as far as that's concerned.

http://speeddemosarchive.com/kb/Max_Payne

ridd3r.

2011-06-11 04:42:58 pm

we have lift off

Part 1, Chapter 2:

Segment 5 - Lots of killing and some manipulation of enemies. There are potentially 6 super jumps to get. The first 3 save a maximum of 11 frames each, so 0.37s which is a fair bit of time. The final jump saves a couple of seconds so that's critical. The two after the cutscene only save 4 frames each (running or doing one jump up the stairs is exactly the same time), so I lose 8 frames total from super jumping, which I'm very happy with. Times throughout the level were exceptionally fast.

jera

2011-06-12 08:41:49 am

procrastenating

Nice job on the wiki, but is the remark about fire damage not a bit superfluous? Since it is something that you notice even when playing the game for the first time.

As per usual nice bit of quality Max Payne speedrunning!! Love the way they did not kill u in the power control room =), impressive without slomo! Do you think you'll be able to do the run entirely without slomo :-P ?

ridd3r.

2011-06-12 12:17:25 pm

we have lift off

Quote from jera:

Nice job on the wiki, but is the remark about fire damage not a bit superfluous? Since it is something that you notice even when playing the game for the first time.

I'm sure not everyone noticed it and it leads to some applications that are not obvious at all, like p3c2 jumping over the broken gas line. Since there are applications that the game designers clearly did not intend, I think it's worth mentioning.

Quote:

Do you think you'll be able to do the run entirely without slomo :-P ?

That's the plan.

jera

2011-06-12 01:13:07 pm

procrastenating

Quote:

That's the plan.

:-O

Ok then, good luck :-)

Patrick

2011-06-12 01:53:45 pm

"glitch is activated by a deathline passing through you in a cutscene."
"The idea of the glitch is you die in the cutscene"
That is confusing. Anyway, I will give that a try: A simple idea of how to die in a cutscene is using a grenade.
Best regards, freakypaddy.

ridd3r.

2011-06-12 04:26:15 pm

we have lift off

Quote from freakypaddy:

A simple idea of how to die in a cutscene is using a grenade.

A few posts back...

Quote from ridd3r.:

I've tried different things like nading myself, falling large distances etc. none of it even tries to register as damage when in the save glitch state. I've only looked at part 1, but given what I know now, it's looking much less likely it can be done anywhere else.

Quote from freakypaddy:

"glitch is activated by a deathline passing through you in a cutscene."
"The idea of the glitch is you die in the cutscene"
That is confusing.

What is? The deathline effectively kills you in the cutscene (passing through a deathline = die), giving you full damage.

jera

Edit history:

jera: 2011-06-12 05:45:06 pm

jera: 2011-06-12 05:41:39 pm

2011-06-12 05:38:34 pm

procrastenating

Maybe a useless post, but hey, I did a lot of those already :-)

I have been testerunning a bit myself and I got a question: Do you have the same problem that when the DMW-glitch is activated, you can superjump but some times (I think even 2 out of 5 times) I get fall damage and it kills me. For example, the superjump in P1C6 over the metal plates (the beginning) will fail about 2/5 times and it will kill me from 'falling'. I don't know what's causing it, since it seems to me that the jump is exactly the same fall distance each time you do it.

Also, how many painkillers will "end" the glitch? I used them until the Max silhouette turned the lighter type of red fully and it was still activated.

honorableJay

2011-06-12 10:18:47 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

Quote from jera:

Maybe a useless post, but hey, I did a lot of those already :-)

I have been testerunning a bit myself and I got a question: Do you have the same problem that when the DMW-glitch is activated, you can superjump but some times (I think even 2 out of 5 times) I get fall damage and it kills me. For example, the superjump in P1C6 over the metal plates (the beginning) will fail about 2/5 times and it will kill me from 'falling'. I don't know what's causing it, since it seems to me that the jump is exactly the same fall distance each time you do it.

We found out while testing the super jump that if you hold forward for the entire jump you'll take fall damage (which will kill you since any damage taken while using DMW is lethal). However if you stop moving forward at the peak of the jump (or shortly before/after) you'll take no fall damage. It's been a while since I played with it, so your results may vary.

ridd3r.

2011-06-13 10:27:53 am

we have lift off

Quote from honorableJay:

We found out while testing the super jump that if you hold forward for the entire jump you'll take fall damage (which will kill you since any damage taken while using DMW is lethal). However if you stop moving forward at the peak of the jump (or shortly before/after) you'll take no fall damage. It's been a while since I played with it, so your results may vary.

Pretty much this, but sometimes you take no damage even when holding forwards the whole time.

Also to deactivate the DMW glitch you only need 1 painkiller, but you need to use it on the level prior to the one where you want things to be back to normal, since it takes a level load to take effect.

ridd3r.

2011-06-13 01:47:56 pm

we have lift off

Part 1, Chapter 3:

This actually turned out to be really hard. The start was extra hard because the guy on the right can be in several different places, so it's really hard to learn the amount you need to turn to kill him. Overall I did about 2000 attempts, the crux was killing the 2 guys and blowing the boiler quickly, which was hard to do fast.

jera

2011-06-13 04:12:55 pm

procrastenating

I take back my entertainment rant; this was very fast and entertaining ;-)

ridd3r.

Edit history:

ridd3r.: 2011-06-18 08:12:21 am

ridd3r.: 2011-06-18 05:18:14 am

ridd3r.: 2011-06-18 05:17:22 am

ridd3r.: 2011-06-18 05:17:21 am

ridd3r.: 2011-06-18 05:16:53 am

2011-06-18 03:27:23 am

we have lift off

Finally!!!

Part 1, Chapter 4:

This probably took the most time so far and all because of the final super jump - over 60 times I got to the final jump and only 3 times did I clear it. Half the time I died clipping the edge the other half I just clipped the edge, wasting frames... The rest of the level isn't too bad, but there's a fair bit of super jumping.

I had a crushing incident whereby I nailed everything and then after the loading screen for p1c5, I tried to skip the comic strip by spamming f1 and the button got locked (an in-game thing) and I couldn't skip it!!! Well, not quickly. I learnt a hard lesson there, I certainly have a different approach now, but skipping comic strips is part of the run really. As they say, it's not over till it's over.

I need to move ahead to p1c6 and see if it's quicker with or without the DMW glitch, if it's the same I'll deactivate it and segment p1c6 a bit. I know that p1c7 will be a lot quicker with the ability to save glitch, so I need to deactivate it in p1c6 at the latest. If it's not quicker, there will be serious luck manipulation and about 4 super jumps, making it probably the hardest segment in the game.

Edit 2: Looks like DMW glitch is very important for p1c6, you get shot to pieces at a couple of points otherwise...

Edit: Wiki updated quite a bit. I think it's now complete except for in-depth level by level stuff.
http://speeddemosarchive.com/kb/Max_Payne

Finally!!!

Part 1, Chapter 4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDcw88MrqVg

This probably took the most time so far and all because of the final super jump - over 60 times I got to the final jump and only 3 times did I clear it. Half the time I died clipping the edge the other half I just clipped the edge, wasting frames... The rest of the level isn't too bad, but there's a fair bit of super jumping.

I had a crushing incident whereby I nailed everything and then after the loading screen for p1c5, I tried to skip the comic strip by spamming f1 and the button got locked (an in-game thing) and I couldn't skip it!!! Well, not quickly. I learnt a hard lesson there, I certainly have a different approach now, but skipping comic strips is part of the run really. As they say, it's not over till it's over.

I need to move ahead to p1c6 and see if it's quicker with or without the DMW glitch, if it's the same I'll deactivate it and segment p1c6 a bit. I know that p1c7 will be a lot quicker with the ability to save glitch, so I need to deactivate it in p1c6 at the latest. If it's not quicker, there will be serious luck manipulation and about 4 super jumps, making it probably the hardest segment in the game.

Edit 2: Looks like DMW glitch is very important for p1c6, you get shot to pieces at a couple of points otherwise...

Edit: Wiki updated quite a bit. I think it's now complete except for in-depth level by level stuff.
http://speeddemosarchive.com/kb/Max_Payne

ridd3r.

Edit history:

ridd3r.: 2011-06-18 03:18:19 pm

2011-06-18 03:17:41 pm

we have lift off

Part I, Chapter 5:

Yeah that was pretty quick, but I have spent many hours on it. The hardest part is probably blowing the cannister, which was really hard to get some kind of consistency on.

The next segment I'm confident is technically the hardest in the run, so it will take ages.

joe

Edit history:

joe: 2011-06-24 05:44:15 am

2011-06-24 05:43:24 am

Quote from ridd3r.:

I haven't found any evidence of anyone Speedrunning this game at all since Shido's run over 5 years ago. I was referring to natural talent though and there are undoubtedly people out there more talented - that doesn't mean they are better than me at the moment. The chances of them actually putting the effort in though is a separate matter and of course persistence should never be underestimated.

me and a couple of other dudes have raced the game a decent number of times in SRL, mostly just part 1 and we're really awful at it compared to you. it's really fun though!!

ridd3r.

Edit history:

ridd3r.: 2011-06-24 11:45:59 am

2011-06-24 10:07:55 am

we have lift off

Quote from joe:

me and a couple of other dudes have raced the game a decent number of times in SRL, mostly just part 1 and we're really awful at it compared to you. it's really fun though!!

I saw a few runs had been done on SRL, but yeah I meant submitable runs or full game runs at least. I'd join in too, but last time I tried to setup the streaming programs it....failed. Maybe I'll try again, would be fun to have some company with this game!

Edit: Just did a test stream and it worked fine! I would appreciate someone giving me some good video/audio settings though. I mean it was watchable, but I'm sure default can't be best. Time to get this linked to ustream/justin.tv

ridd3r.

Edit history:

ridd3r.: 2011-07-01 12:47:34 pm

ridd3r.: 2011-06-28 04:05:54 pm

ridd3r.: 2011-06-25 02:57:56 pm

2011-06-25 02:42:14 pm

we have lift off

~~Part I, Chapter 6:~~ - Shit, just found a quicker finish, gona have to redo...

Got a fairly decent run, but it can definitely be quicker with better luck manipulation. Out of over 25 runs that made it to the 1st cutscene (after 3 super jumps) over the past 2 days, only 1 had the mobster quick enough for it to be a decent run and I didn't manage to finish the level that time... I've got to the cutscene countless times and finished the run many times, but the mobster is just so uncooperative...

I got my stream setup as well, so I'll be streaming attempts from time to time.

ridd3r.

2011-07-01 12:48:26 pm

we have lift off

Part I, Chapter 6:

DMW glitch is over! Save glitch galore on chapter 7...

ridd3r.

Edit history:

ridd3r.: 2011-07-05 12:57:46 pm

ridd3r.: 2011-07-04 06:43:48 am

ridd3r.: 2011-07-04 06:43:33 am

2011-07-04 06:42:59 am

we have lift off

Part I, Chapter 7 - a.k.a save glitch mania:

Looking at the times for my 56:43 segmented DoA run (which was practice for SS), I project a final time of 49:30 minutes at the moment (including save penalties, assuming same number of segments as NYM run). I saved a particularly large amount of time in chapter 7 with all the save glitching, but I should save a lot of time in part 3 where I can go for risky strategies. So, I'm still aiming for sub 50!

I have a problem when it comes to editing the video. The problem hasn't really arisen so far, editing out lag frames for the quick save in p1c1 wasn't an issue and the quick saves didn't involve me moving at the transition between saving and the cutscene. However, in p1c7 it looks like there're frames missing. There actually aren't, but since the matching frames on the "other side" of the quick save (if that makes sense) take place in the fade into the cutscene, it looks like it doesn't quite match up. There's also the issue that people who haven't followed the discovery of the save glitch will have no idea what the hell is going on every time I save glitch. The NYM run wasn't an issue since the in-game timer was used and so I showed the saves and the reloads so people knew what was going on. If I do that for this run, timing will be a bit of nightmare, but I'm not sure the clean edit I've used here really works. What do people think? NYM editing or this?

Part I, Chapter 7 - a.k.a save glitch mania:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYAt1k8eRQQ&feature=channel_video_title

Looking at the times for my 56:43 segmented DoA run (which was practice for SS), I project a final time of 49:30 minutes at the moment (including save penalties, assuming same number of segments as NYM run). I saved a particularly large amount of time in chapter 7 with all the save glitching, but I should save a lot of time in part 3 where I can go for risky strategies. So, I'm still aiming for sub 50!

I have a problem when it comes to editing the video. The problem hasn't really arisen so far, editing out lag frames for the quick save in p1c1 wasn't an issue and the quick saves didn't involve me moving at the transition between saving and the cutscene. However, in p1c7 it looks like there're frames missing. There actually aren't, but since the matching frames on the "other side" of the quick save (if that makes sense) take place in the fade into the cutscene, it looks like it doesn't quite match up. There's also the issue that people who haven't followed the discovery of the save glitch will have no idea what the hell is going on every time I save glitch. The NYM run wasn't an issue since the in-game timer was used and so I showed the saves and the reloads so people knew what was going on. If I do that for this run, timing will be a bit of nightmare, but I'm not sure the clean edit I've used here really works. What do people think? NYM editing or this?

honorableJay

2011-07-04 10:39:26 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

I like this editing since I already know what's going on, but for the final edit you might want to talk to the admins about what to do. I'd say for the verification copy keep it like NYM but the final would look better this way.

jera

2011-07-05 09:44:00 am

procrastenating

I agree with hJ, I had no problem understanding it and when you finally submit your run, you can easily explain in the comments/audio commentary how things work so it should be fine. Just to be safe, a verification copy is always a good idea. Really enjoyed the run so far, way more difficult than I had anticipated it to be, nice one on the running-blind-while-safe-glithing :-O

ridd3r.

2011-07-05 12:57:07 pm

we have lift off

Maybe NYM editing on youtube, clean for SDA. Having said that editing it isn't a 5 minute job, with 60+ segments it takes ages putting all the frames into Anri, I'll just make my mind up and do one version most likely. I'll probably go with the clean editing; it's always obvious where a save takes place and people who haven't been following the progress will be confused no matter how I edit it.

Part I, Chapter 8 - a.k.a super jump mania:

Yeah I got this really fast, the first segment took loads of attempts, but the remaining three I got fast for a change.

Quote from jera:

Really enjoyed the run so far, way more difficult than I had anticipated it to be, nice one on the running-blind-while-safe-glithing :-O

It's not called Dead on Arrival for nothing you know...

Liderharen

2011-07-05 01:05:04 pm

Awesome run so far. This segmented dead on arrival is in my opinion your most entertaining run yet. Keep up the excellent work!

jera

Edit history:

jera: 2011-07-06 05:47:49 am

2011-07-06 05:47:10 am

procrastenating

Quote:

It's not called Dead on Arrival for nothing you know...

I meant the parts with the DMW glitch activated. I simply wanted to point out that my initial concern about P1 being not that interesting with the glitch activated was unjustified, since you have to do the whole level in one segmented plus you encounter a lot of different challenges and problems. My position on the DMW glitch was that I find entertainment value also an important aspect to keep in mind when speedrunning, but your run is very cool to watch and you show some amazing skills; so "I really enjoyed the run so far". DoA without slomo is sick, and I meant no disrespect for your skill at this game...