Max Payne - RTA [51:35]

2009-07-22 01:06:56 am

The Dork Knight himself.

It's something to do with the game itself. I can successfully capture other games at 100fps with no problems (like team fortress 2) with the graphics cranked, so I know it's not my system. In fact, while the game drops to 20fps, the video still plays back fine and tells me it's playing back at the originally intended recording rate.

ridd3r.

2009-07-22 05:00:34 am

we have lift off

Quote from honorableJay:

Okay, for some odd reason every time I try to use fraps with max payne the game drops down to 20fps no matter what I set the capture rate to. But the good news is I've found a reliable method for doing the jump. If you have a metronome, set it to 180bpm. That is the timing you should use for hitting jump after you've clicked to change weapons.

It is definitely easier to nail with a lower frame rate, but the timing is the same regardless.

***EDIT*** Here's a little video showing what I mean with the metronome timing.

I've also noticed that it's harder to do while standing still and easier while running.

Yeah I always do it while running, thanks for the metronome idea! Really genius! I will definitely have to try that out and then I can really use this reliably without having to rely on a bit of luck. I will search for a computer program to do the metronome actually, so I don't drive everyone else mad Grin

Theres loads if you google, OK I will update later to see if I can nail chapter 7 with the jump now.

[quote="honorableJay"]
Okay, for some odd reason every time I try to use fraps with max payne the game drops down to 20fps no matter what I set the capture rate to. But the good news is I've found a reliable method for doing the jump. If you have a metronome, set it to 180bpm. That is the timing you should use for hitting jump after you've clicked to change weapons.

It is definitely easier to nail with a lower frame rate, but the timing is the same regardless.

***EDIT*** [url=http://www.filefront.com/14095449/mpjumptest.avi/]Here's a little video[/url] showing what I mean with the metronome timing.

I've also noticed that it's harder to do while standing still and easier while running.
[/quote]

Yeah I always do it while running, thanks for the metronome idea! Really genius! I will definitely have to try that out and then I can really use this reliably without having to rely on a bit of luck. I will search for a computer program to do the metronome actually, so I don't drive everyone else mad ;D Theres loads if you google, OK I will update later to see if I can nail chapter 7 with the jump now.

ridd3r.

2009-07-22 02:23:06 pm

we have lift off

Well it is much more reliable with the metronome but its not 100%. I'm sure sometimes even if you time it right it doesn't work. Whether this is something to do with the game or the fps or what I don't know. I tried various bpm but finally agree with you that 180 is correct. It probably works more than 50% of the time which is pretty good. Do you agree it works about this much of the time or can you really nail it like 90% of the time? Bear in mind also that if you get into a rhythm and take a few steps between jumps after landing that may make a difference, if you try and pull it off every time you land surely it doesn't work every time for you?

One last thing, I got a free metronome program but obviously fraps will record the sound from this. Does anyone know a way around this? I could theoretically record the sound and put it on my mp3 player but that would not be ideal as it would not go on forever so any solution to this would be much appreciated.

honorableJay

2009-07-22 02:37:46 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

Find a music store and spend $25 on a real metronome or just run it on a laptop/secondary computer. There really is no other way to get fraps to not record it unfortunately.

I'm getting the jump down about 50% of the time when I'm running at about 20fps (which isn't good enough for recording unfortunately) and slightly less when I'm running at my normal 100fps. I do get into a rhythm though where I can nail it a few times in a row but usually switching weapons itself will break my rhythm. I've also found at times if I jump a frame or two early the gun will never show the proper ammo but I can still fire (for the desert eagle it'll show the max ammo avail but not what's in the clip).

honorableJay

Edit history:

honorableJay: 2009-07-22 05:11:52 pm

2009-07-22 04:40:59 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

Here's an interesting one.

Be careful about walking away from the wall. I'm not sure where, but there's a spot that will trigger the game in a slo-mo with the camera pointed towards one of the other buildings and you can't get out of it until you die.

Going by the time from the SS run it saves about a minute's worth of gunplay and mindless running around.

ridd3r.

Edit history:

ridd3r.: 2009-07-22 05:51:42 pm

2009-07-22 05:21:40 pm

we have lift off

Damn! Another level I have to redo, nice find though. I also found that if you jump over the fence at the start of the level you skip having to go through the building and watch the laundromat cutscene. I'll just be so glad once I get part 1 done, I hate having to redo levels.

EDIT: wow, just improved p1c6 by 12 seconds using our discoveries and I didn't get the jumps first time at all (played without a metronome but I have ordered one), should be able to maybe make it 30 seconds faster if its optimal!

honorableJay

2009-07-22 05:54:35 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

Yeah that trick was fun to find. The gates one at the beginning I was gonna tell you about, but I figured you'd already found it Smiley

Originally I tried to get on top of the building from the fire escape at the start, but the building extends all the way to the ceiling, rendering that route not possible.

Don't think I'm lettin you off the hook just yet. This one is debatable but it does cut that corner and it skips the cutscenes on the stairs plus the fight is skipped (just toss a gren behind you if they start to shoot).

I'm finding that these rooftop levels are littered with these kind of skips. You're better off going through each level just looking for shortcuts before you try to really commit them to a finalized segment.

ridd3r.

Edit history:

ridd3r.: 2009-07-22 06:56:45 pm

2009-07-22 06:17:03 pm

we have lift off

Damn I got BOTH jumps FIRST time and then entered that glitch you were talking about! Its pretty sensitive, thought I knew how to avoid it :@. Also I have a very fast method for going down those stairs anyway, don't worry, everything that doesn't involve that super jump I have utilized. Also I don't mind (I would really like) any short cuts found from p1c6 onwards (apart from pro2 and p2c1 which I have done but it can't be used there). I don't see how doing that method on p1c7 works though, Vinni isn't triggered so what happens if you continue in the level? Is everyone stationary and invincible or just vinni and the 3 guys he sends after you? Remember I am on NYM mode I haven't got time to get to the end of the level without any kills.

EDIT: OK! On p1c6 When you get up there and you get the camera looking at the wall it doesn't matter! Its just the game getting confused in a cutscene, just go directly right when you jump up and keep going right! This will then trigger Vinni to get knocked off the roof and the timer stops as soon as you enter that cutscene so I don't have to worry about that anymore.

EDIT2: I'm going to bed now but I did a pretty decent run here. I hope you enjoy a result of our hard work! I will do it again until I get both jumps first time but that right there is a 30 second improvement so maybe 35 seconds is optimal, something like that. The level is so short now it won't take me long to do :D.

Also I would like to say that I was originally planning a SS NYM run after I had finished this but I'm not so sure about this anymore. This run will overshadow it big time in that this will be very optimal and I can keep redoing levels until I get this jump done quickly. I would smash the remedy par time but I don't think it is worth doing. Instead I will give up all the rolling around and do a re-run of my SS DoA record. It has to be done what will all these time savers. Also I can clear the death away once and for all and then I will just bask in Max Payne mastery glory ; D

Damn I got BOTH jumps FIRST time and then entered that glitch you were talking about! Its pretty sensitive, thought I knew how to avoid it :@. Also I have a very fast method for going down those stairs anyway, don't worry, everything that doesn't involve that super jump I have utilized. Also I don't mind (I would really like) any short cuts found from p1c6 onwards (apart from pro2 and p2c1 which I have done but it can't be used there). I don't see how doing that method on p1c7 works though, Vinni isn't triggered so what happens if you continue in the level? Is everyone stationary and invincible or just vinni and the 3 guys he sends after you? Remember I am on NYM mode I haven't got time to get to the end of the level without any kills.

EDIT: OK! On p1c6 When you get up there and you get the camera looking at the wall it doesn't matter! Its just the game getting confused in a cutscene, just go directly right when you jump up and keep going right! This will then trigger Vinni to get knocked off the roof and the timer stops as soon as you enter that cutscene so I don't have to worry about that anymore.

EDIT2: I'm going to bed now but I did a pretty decent run [url=http://www.filefront.com/14102081/MP-p1c6.mp4]here[/url]. I hope you enjoy a result of our hard work! I will do it again until I get both jumps first time but that right there is a 30 second improvement so maybe 35 seconds is optimal, something like that. The level is so short now it won't take me long to do :D.

Also I would like to say that I was originally planning a SS NYM run after I had finished this but I'm not so sure about this anymore. This run will overshadow it big time in that this will be very optimal and I can keep redoing levels until I get this jump done quickly. I would smash the remedy par time but I don't think it is worth doing. Instead I will give up all the rolling around and do a re-run of my SS DoA record. It has to be done what will all these time savers. Also I can clear the death away once and for all and then I will just bask in Max Payne mastery glory ; D

honorableJay

2009-07-22 07:10:15 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

Well, I found a time saver that might not be Sad

I'm on the same level (p1c7) and found that you can skip right to the end fight with Gognitti right after the spiral stairs cutscene. Let that scene play out, then run forward into the bball court. Take the 3 guys out there, then trigger the scaffold elevator cutscene. Once you gain control, backtrack through the bball court and you'll see a fense along the wall with a desert eagle behind it. Super jump over the fence (land on the light above the door so you don't get hurt) and you'll be in a storeroom full of grenades and molotov cocktails. After you stock up, leave the room and you'll be in the last room on ground level.

This saves about a minute and a half........BUT Gognitti is invincible. In order to actually hurt him we have to figure out how to trigger the very final cutscene with him banging on the door. The door you'd normally bust out of apparently can only be opened from the other side, and the cutscene is triggered when you open it.

If we can trigger that cutscene then the final fight will be a joke with all of the molotovs available. The goons you have to fight are even stationary when you enter the room, allowing you to throw one grenade behind the right wall, then another one at the left wall and they're all toast.

Well, I found a time saver that might not be :(

I'm on the same level (p1c7) and found that you can skip right to the end fight with Gognitti right after the spiral stairs cutscene. Let that scene play out, then run forward into the bball court. Take the 3 guys out there, then trigger the scaffold elevator cutscene. Once you gain control, backtrack through the bball court and you'll see a fense along the wall with a desert eagle behind it. Super jump over the fence (land on the light above the door so you don't get hurt) and you'll be in a storeroom full of grenades and molotov cocktails. After you stock up, leave the room and you'll be in the last room on ground level.

This saves about a minute and a half........BUT Gognitti is invincible. In order to actually hurt him we have to figure out how to trigger the very final cutscene with him banging on the door. The door you'd normally bust out of apparently can only be opened from the other side, and the cutscene is triggered when you open it.

If we can trigger that cutscene then the final fight will be a joke with all of the molotovs available. The goons you have to fight are even stationary when you enter the room, allowing you to throw one grenade behind the right wall, then another one at the left wall and they're all toast.

honorableJay

2009-07-23 01:12:53 am

The Dork Knight himself.

Moving right along are a few more time savers:

Part 1, Chapter 4: After taking out Rico Muerte, navigate until you have to shoot the glass to get back into the building. Super jump over the gate and exit the level. Skips a fight with 4 guys and skips having to backtrack to hit the exit switch.

Part 1, Chapter 8: The first time you have to go outdoors, super jump over the wall in front of you. Make sure you hug the wall on the way down the other side to avoid serious fall damage (gotta love slants). Saves a few seconds. Later on, when you come to the first stage setup (with the drumset) jump to the scaffolding on the left side, then roll jump to the right to get over to the control panel. Right afterwards, dead eagle the last enemy in the next room all the way to the left. Super jump up to the wall and hug it (you might have to walk on the railing to get it) then super jump again to get to the stairs, then it's on to the next chapter.

Any other shortcuts I've found lead to dead ends or make the final boss invincible (like Gognitti). Funny that you can skip right to the Gognitti fight by super jumping onto and over the basketball hoop. I also found that in the level prior to that (where Gognitti tries to get away by jumping onto the train) you can get to the end of the level cutscene from the same building you grab the goon to open the dry cleaners door (John who? John Woo). The only problem is Gognitti isn't there so the scene never plays out right and you're stuck, not even able to move. I even tried climbing the building all the way to the top by going from window to window, but eventually you reach the ceiling and can't get around to the platform. Also, in the same room you grab the goon in, you can see the train tracks, but super jumping is short by about an inch otherwise I'd be able to land on the tracks and possibly end the level real early. If the lower windows weren't barred shut I'd be able to get to the train tracks from the ground, but no such luck for me Sad

Once I get onto the Lupino fight and next few levels I'll post a few more shortcuts.

Moving right along are a few more time savers:

Part 1, Chapter 4: After taking out Rico Muerte, navigate until you have to shoot the glass to get back into the building. Super jump over the gate and exit the level. Skips a fight with 4 guys and skips having to backtrack to hit the exit switch.

Part 1, Chapter 8: The first time you have to go outdoors, super jump over the wall in front of you. Make sure you hug the wall on the way down the other side to avoid serious fall damage (gotta love slants). Saves a few seconds. Later on, when you come to the first stage setup (with the drumset) jump to the scaffolding on the left side, then roll jump to the right to get over to the control panel. Right afterwards, dead eagle the last enemy in the next room all the way to the left. Super jump up to the wall and hug it (you might have to walk on the railing to get it) then super jump again to get to the stairs, then it's on to the next chapter.

Any other shortcuts I've found lead to dead ends or make the final boss invincible (like Gognitti). Funny that you can skip right to the Gognitti fight by super jumping onto and over the basketball hoop. I also found that in the level prior to that (where Gognitti tries to get away by jumping onto the train) you can get to the end of the level cutscene from the same building you grab the goon to open the dry cleaners door (John who? John Woo). The only problem is Gognitti isn't there so the scene never plays out right and you're stuck, not even able to move. I even tried climbing the building all the way to the top by going from window to window, but eventually you reach the ceiling and can't get around to the platform. Also, in the same room you grab the goon in, you can see the train tracks, but super jumping is short by about an inch otherwise I'd be able to land on the tracks and possibly end the level real early. If the lower windows weren't barred shut I'd be able to get to the train tracks from the ground, but no such luck for me :(

Once I get onto the Lupino fight and next few levels I'll post a few more shortcuts.

Anemptybox

2009-07-23 05:27:07 am

Very nice find and run there. Haha, funny how he landed in front of the train.

ridd3r.

Edit history:

ridd3r.: 2009-07-23 08:40:03 am

2009-07-23 05:29:07 am

we have lift off

Quote from honorableJay:

Moving right along are a few more time savers:

Part 1, Chapter 4: After taking out Rico Muerte, navigate until you have to shoot the glass to get back into the building. Super jump over the gate and exit the level. Skips a fight with 4 guys and skips having to backtrack to hit the exit switch.

Part 1, Chapter 8: The first time you have to go outdoors, super jump over the wall in front of you. Make sure you hug the wall on the way down the other side to avoid serious fall damage (gotta love slants). Saves a few seconds. Later on, when you come to the first stage setup (with the drumset) jump to the scaffolding on the left side, then roll jump to the right to get over to the control panel. Right afterwards, dead eagle the last enemy in the next room all the way to the left. Super jump up to the wall and hug it (you might have to walk on the railing to get it) then super jump again to get to the stairs, then it's on to the next chapter.

Ah, nice idea for chapter 4. Chapter 8 I had already implemented the roll jumps onto the scaffolding then onto the control planel. For the jump after that are you talking about a jump onto the backdrop like I tried quickly in my youtube video but didn't manage? Also for p1c5 I want to check with you that theres nothing on this level? Basically where you end up there is only one way in so I don't see how you could pull off any short cuts. You don't get high enough with a super jump to make it up to the floor with the broken floor and theres no way you can get up in stages.

I also tried the skip for chapter 7 but came to the same problem. Also I doubt getting onto the train tracks would trigger the end of the level, you specifically have to jump on a train. I discovered that jumping up to the 2nd floor on p1c9 will enable you to kill all the goons very quickly. pro2 it has not uses, same for p2c1. p2c2 there are loads. Jump over 2 containers and a jump over the bridge which goes up at the end are what I know of. p2c3 Jump up to the walkway straight away. Also maybe you can jump into that caged area in the 2nd warehouse, finally a jump onto the ship might be slightly quicker. p2c5 you might be able to jump up a floor early but I don't know if you can get to the end without killing the trio. Thats about as far as I have thought out in my head.

EDIT: Redone p1c4! Took a while but I got the jump first try and there were no errors! 0:47 I think, thats a 10 second improvement to my run without the jump at the end!

[quote="honorableJay"]
Moving right along are a few more time savers:

Part 1, Chapter 4: After taking out Rico Muerte, navigate until you have to shoot the glass to get back into the building. Super jump over the gate and exit the level. Skips a fight with 4 guys and skips having to backtrack to hit the exit switch.

Part 1, Chapter 8: The first time you have to go outdoors, super jump over the wall in front of you. Make sure you hug the wall on the way down the other side to avoid serious fall damage (gotta love slants). Saves a few seconds. Later on, when you come to the first stage setup (with the drumset) jump to the scaffolding on the left side, then roll jump to the right to get over to the control panel. Right afterwards, dead eagle the last enemy in the next room all the way to the left. Super jump up to the wall and hug it (you might have to walk on the railing to get it) then super jump again to get to the stairs, then it's on to the next chapter.
[/quote]

Ah, nice idea for chapter 4. Chapter 8 I had already implemented the roll jumps onto the scaffolding then onto the control planel. For the jump after that are you talking about a jump onto the backdrop like I tried quickly in my youtube video but didn't manage? Also for p1c5 I want to check with you that theres nothing on this level? Basically where you end up there is only one way in so I don't see how you could pull off any short cuts. You don't get high enough with a super jump to make it up to the floor with the broken floor and theres no way you can get up in stages.

I also tried the skip for chapter 7 but came to the same problem. Also I doubt getting onto the train tracks would trigger the end of the level, you specifically have to jump on a train. I discovered that jumping up to the 2nd floor on p1c9 will enable you to kill all the goons very quickly. pro2 it has not uses, same for p2c1. p2c2 there are loads. Jump over 2 containers and a jump over the bridge which goes up at the end are what I know of. p2c3 Jump up to the walkway straight away. Also maybe you can jump into that caged area in the 2nd warehouse, finally a jump onto the ship might be slightly quicker. p2c5 you might be able to jump up a floor early but I don't know if you can get to the end without killing the trio. Thats about as far as I have thought out in my head.

EDIT: Redone p1c4! Took a while but I got the jump first try and there were no errors! 0:47 I think, thats a 10 second improvement to my run without the jump at the end!

honorableJay

2009-07-23 09:10:22 am

The Dork Knight himself.

Yeah P1C5 has no skips whatsoever. Even the room before the final stair fight (just underneath the exit window) you can't skip. I tried climbing the walls, even found out the exploding floor isn't really there. But there's no way to warp through it to the exit.

As for P1C8, yeah the backdrop skip you tried quickly in your youtube video is the one I'm talking about.

Just a question since I can't remember your older run off the top of my head: What do you use grenades/molotovs for anyway? I know there are a few spots where molotovs can definitely help in skipping a lot of fighting in Part 1, but I don't recall you using any (then again there aren't many that are directly in your path except for the beginning of P1C5).

And does anybody have any clue just how the hell you're supposed to normally get to the DopeFish Lives room in P1C7? The door can only be opened from the inside, and the only way to normally get to it is when you're taking down Vinni.

ridd3r.

2009-07-23 09:19:27 am

we have lift off

Quote from honorableJay:

And does anybody have any clue just how the hell you're supposed to normally get to the DopeFish Lives room in P1C7? The door can only be opened from the inside, and the only way to normally get to it is when you're taking down Vinni.

I would guess that you are meant to enter the fight and then go there to stock up? Also obviously it would be nice to have molotovs but I don't think it really saves much time. In the fight on p1c7 I kill all the guys on the right with a nade and the guys on the left quickly with uzi's. I just don't see it saving any time. The slightest detour in NYM mode costs you seconds.

honorableJay

Edit history:

honorableJay: 2009-07-23 11:23:43 am

2009-07-23 10:31:20 am

The Dork Knight himself.

Nah, I already tried that. Started up the fight, but the door was still locked. Apparently you're supposed to get to the room before you actually fight. Right after you kick the door open and watch Vinni bashing on the door, turn left and jump the gap to the walkway above the desert eagle. There are a bunch of interesting secret rooms in this game apparently.

One of em is easy enough to find on P2C2, at 39 mins into your DOA run. Instead of activating the crane to lift the cargo hold out of the way, super jump up the crates and you'll find one of em is open with some ammo in it (a few grenades too). I know you probably won't use some of these, but it's always good to keep in mind just in case you think "Man if only I had grenades about now...." later on down the line.

***EDIT***

Here's another possible route for p2c2.
Keep in mind I was using god mode for route testing (got tired of fall damage) so I'm not sure how much real damage you'd sustain from the initial jump. If you land on top of the fence before falling to the other side you should be fine. Another thing I've found is if you're doing a super jump and stop moving forward at the crest you'll sustain no fall damage as long as you land on level ground (if it drops you're guaranteed some damage). If you continue to move forward for the entire jump though you'll drain away almost half of your health. Matching up the DOA run, it took you roughly 2 mins and 20 seconds to go from this spot to the exit door. Using this route takes about 45-50 seconds, so the time savings is quite impressive. The only real catch is you don't get the sniper rifle in this level, so unless the next level can be finished without it or you pick it up in the beginning of the next level is the deal breaker here. Another option is to play the level like normal, but instead of shooting the blocks from the wheels of the truck, just super jump over the gate and make a mad dash to the exit.

Nah, I already tried that. Started up the fight, but the door was still locked. Apparently you're supposed to get to the room before you actually fight. Right after you kick the door open and watch Vinni bashing on the door, turn left and jump the gap to the walkway above the desert eagle. There are a bunch of interesting secret rooms in this game apparently.

One of em is easy enough to find on P2C2, at 39 mins into your DOA run. Instead of activating the crane to lift the cargo hold out of the way, super jump up the crates and you'll find one of em is open with some ammo in it (a few grenades too). I know you probably won't use some of these, but it's always good to keep in mind just in case you think "Man if only I had grenades about now...." later on down the line.

***EDIT***

[url=http://www.filefront.com/14106399/p2c2-skip.avi/]Here's another possible route for p2c2.[/url]
Keep in mind I was using god mode for route testing (got tired of fall damage) so I'm not sure how much real damage you'd sustain from the initial jump. If you land on top of the fence before falling to the other side you should be fine. Another thing I've found is if you're doing a super jump and stop moving forward at the crest you'll sustain no fall damage as long as you land on level ground (if it drops you're guaranteed some damage). If you continue to move forward for the entire jump though you'll drain away almost half of your health. Matching up the DOA run, it took you roughly 2 mins and 20 seconds to go from this spot to the exit door. Using this route takes about 45-50 seconds, so the time savings is quite impressive. The only real catch is you don't get the sniper rifle in this level, so unless the next level can be finished without it or you pick it up in the beginning of the next level is the deal breaker here. Another option is to play the level like normal, but instead of shooting the blocks from the wheels of the truck, just super jump over the gate and make a mad dash to the exit.

ridd3r.

Edit history:

ridd3r.: 2009-07-23 01:57:28 pm

2009-07-23 12:03:48 pm

we have lift off

Given I can super jump at the start of p2c3 up to the walkway I then pick up a sniper on the moving platform so I don't have to get it on p2c2. Also for this NYM run I can get by without it as the enemies are weaker. Damage doesn't really matter on NYM, it will be a big factor for DoA though. Don't need to worry about it just yet but its good to know you can control the damage you sustain.

EDIT: Very nice route for p2c2, I'm just a bit worried about how many super jumps I have to pull off first time! Theres 4 in your section + 1 over the gate at the start! I think its quicker on NYM to just go through the warehouse than having to go over the wall with 2 more super jumps like I do on youtube.

EDIT2: I have redone p1c5. I wanted to keep consistency incase this was not accepted as an IL run. Got the same time and got the molotovs as well as they may come in useful and it doesn't waste any time. Should have part 1 done by the end of this week roughly.

cortez

2009-07-23 02:39:24 pm

Stalker!

how is run timed?
if its timed like MP2 wouldnt it be faster shoot the junkies in chapter 1 level 6

ridd3r.

2009-07-23 03:06:48 pm

we have lift off

No its not like Max Payne 2. You get +8 seconds for each kill but that doesn't affect the timer at all, thats purely to help you finish the level before the timer hits 0. You do not reduce your time by killing people at all. In effect the actual game timer for each level is independant of kills completely.

honorableJay

Edit history:

honorableJay: 2009-07-23 10:36:34 pm

2009-07-23 08:29:12 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

Honestly I don't think this game should have an IL table since you can't choose which level to start at like in MP2. It should be a segmented NYM run since each segment has to coincide with all of the others.

Btw, is it actually faster to do siderolls or just running normally. I know siderolls can easily dodge gunfire, but is it really faster? The nightmare segments for sure are quicker, but how about normally?

***Edit*** Tore through the rest of P2 just to see what skips are possible. With minimal playtime I didn't find too many unfortunately, the obvious ones don't really need explanation. However, the Trio fight can be turned into a Deuce fight. Take down the first guy, then once you're in the lobby, super jump to the top level. Find the corpse on the bed (not sure if you have to interact with the body or not) and once you walk back to the lobby you should be ready to fight the final of the Trio. Take him down and it's the end of P2.

A quick note about the platform section on p2c3: skipping it will take a lot of health away. I'm going to do some more testing to see how much health it'll take, but it might not be possible. The fall is supposed to kill you, and it doesn't appear that you can land on the legs to break your fall. However, if you can manage to get to the ground, it's a straight run to the boat. Since the game doesn't expect you to be on the ground, your first super jump will make you hit an invisible ceiling halfway up to the door, which then has you land on an invisible platform. Do another super jump to the door and the rest is a cakewalk.

***Edit 2***
Apparently that invisible platform is actually the kill trigger, so going on the ground is not possible. But I have figured out how to skip the tram anyway Smiley

It's a good idea to grab the sniper rifle before you bypass it though. You might also need to kill the guy blocking the doorway (he's on the outside of the building). Without grenades I found the bat is the only other weapon that can hit him through the door (unless you know which spot in the warehouse will trigger him to enter).

Honestly I don't think this game should have an IL table since you can't choose which level to start at like in MP2. It should be a segmented NYM run since each segment has to coincide with all of the others.

Btw, is it actually faster to do siderolls or just running normally. I know siderolls can easily dodge gunfire, but is it really faster? The nightmare segments for sure are quicker, but how about normally?

***Edit*** Tore through the rest of P2 just to see what skips are possible. With minimal playtime I didn't find too many unfortunately, the obvious ones don't really need explanation. However, the Trio fight can be turned into a Deuce fight. Take down the first guy, then once you're in the lobby, super jump to the top level. Find the corpse on the bed (not sure if you have to interact with the body or not) and once you walk back to the lobby you should be ready to fight the final of the Trio. Take him down and it's the end of P2.

A quick note about the platform section on p2c3: skipping it will take a lot of health away. I'm going to do some more testing to see how much health it'll take, but it might not be possible. The fall is supposed to kill you, and it doesn't appear that you can land on the legs to break your fall. However, if you can manage to get to the ground, it's a straight run to the boat. Since the game doesn't expect you to be on the ground, your first super jump will make you hit an invisible ceiling halfway up to the door, which then has you land on an invisible platform. Do another super jump to the door and the rest is a cakewalk.

***Edit 2***
Apparently that invisible platform is actually the kill trigger, so going on the ground is not possible. But I have figured out [url=http://www.filefront.com/14110579/p2c3-skiptram.avi]how[/url] to skip the tram anyway :)  It's a good idea to grab the sniper rifle before you bypass it though. You might also need to kill the guy blocking the doorway (he's on the outside of the building). Without grenades I found the bat is the only other weapon that can hit him through the door (unless you know which spot in the warehouse will trigger him to enter).

ridd3r.

Edit history:

ridd3r.: 2009-07-24 05:51:03 am

2009-07-24 05:40:23 am

we have lift off

Quote from honorableJay:

Honestly I don't think this game should have an IL table since you can't choose which level to start at like in MP2. It should be a segmented NYM run since each segment has to coincide with all of the others.

Btw, is it actually faster to do siderolls or just running normally. I know siderolls can easily dodge gunfire, but is it really faster? The nightmare segments for sure are quicker, but how about normally?

***Edit*** Tore through the rest of P2 just to see what skips are possible. With minimal playtime I didn't find too many unfortunately, the obvious ones don't really need explanation. However, the Trio fight can be turned into a Deuce fight. Take down the first guy, then once you're in the lobby, super jump to the top level. Find the corpse on the bed (not sure if you have to interact with the body or not) and once you walk back to the lobby you should be ready to fight the final of the Trio. Take him down and it's the end of P2.

A quick note about the platform section on p2c3: skipping it will take a lot of health away. I'm going to do some more testing to see how much health it'll take, but it might not be possible. The fall is supposed to kill you, and it doesn't appear that you can land on the legs to break your fall. However, if you can manage to get to the ground, it's a straight run to the boat. Since the game doesn't expect you to be on the ground, your first super jump will make you hit an invisible ceiling halfway up to the door, which then has you land on an invisible platform. Do another super jump to the door and the rest is a cakewalk.

***Edit 2***
Apparently that invisible platform is actually the kill trigger, so going on the ground is not possible. But I have figured out how to skip the tram anyway Smiley

It's a good idea to grab the sniper rifle before you bypass it though. You might also need to kill the guy blocking the doorway (he's on the outside of the building). Without grenades I found the bat is the only other weapon that can hit him through the door (unless you know which spot in the warehouse will trigger him to enter).

For a NYM run its definitely quicker to roll as the timer slows down when you are rolling. Obviously for real time its quicker to just run. I have even timed rolling up stairs which is still a bit faster. Basically you realise that rolling is quicker than running in the prologues, that is because rolling is not in any sort of slow-mo there. In the other levels rolling is quicker for the NYM timer as it takes into acount a slight bit of slow-mo as you roll, if that makes any sense.

It was decided it should be an IL run back when the previous run was I submitted and I prefer it like that. It means I could pick up any level down the line and redo it if a big skip was found. Whereas if it was a segmented run I would have to do the WHOLE thing again which would take ages. For people wanting to watch the whole thing in one go its not a big deal to get a download manager and put it on a playlist. Or maybe I could make an appended file available as well on the gamepage.

So just to clarify theres p2c2 as you showed me, theres a super jump at the start of p2c3 to get on the walkway then what you showed me. p2c4 nothing and p2c5 1 jump up to the 2nd level? p2c3 looks good by the way so thanks for that.
For part 3 I reckon theres 1 for p3c1 getting up to the 2nd level in the 2nd of the lava rooms
p3c2 nothing I can think of.
p3c3 again nothing.
p3c4 a jump on 1 of the levels over some bars which are in the way to save having to go round.
p3c5 possibly a jump up to where the guy with the laser sniper is but it might be too high, otherwise in the offices over the office walls to save going around.
p3c6 jump at the start, jump in the room with the abseilers.
p3c7 nothing!
p3c8 nothing.
I literally did that in my head so I may well have missed some things.

On a final note I would like your opinion on a gameplay quality check of the run. Before the introduction of the superjump I never gave up until a seconds improvement did not look possible as it was completely under my control to do so. Now with the superjump I am on p1c6 and several times I get the 1st jump on the first go and it takes 2 goes to get the 2nd jump. This costs a second so the question is, what do I let go? I have already tried loads more to get both jumps in 1 go. Obviously everything else will be perfect but its a question of hours extra to save a second and this may well happen a lot. For example p2c2 where there are like 4-5 super jumps to do. Given I haven't got the metronome yet I could wait for that and then do you think it is feasible to get them all first go? Or is 2 attempts at a jump perfectly acceptable to you? (I know it won't be rejected thats not what I am asking).

[quote="honorableJay"]
Honestly I don't think this game should have an IL table since you can't choose which level to start at like in MP2. It should be a segmented NYM run since each segment has to coincide with all of the others.

Btw, is it actually faster to do siderolls or just running normally. I know siderolls can easily dodge gunfire, but is it really faster? The nightmare segments for sure are quicker, but how about normally?

***Edit*** Tore through the rest of P2 just to see what skips are possible. With minimal playtime I didn't find too many unfortunately, the obvious ones don't really need explanation. However, the Trio fight can be turned into a Deuce fight. Take down the first guy, then once you're in the lobby, super jump to the top level. Find the corpse on the bed (not sure if you have to interact with the body or not) and once you walk back to the lobby you should be ready to fight the final of the Trio. Take him down and it's the end of P2.

A quick note about the platform section on p2c3: skipping it will take a lot of health away. I'm going to do some more testing to see how much health it'll take, but it might not be possible. The fall is supposed to kill you, and it doesn't appear that you can land on the legs to break your fall. However, if you can manage to get to the ground, it's a straight run to the boat. Since the game doesn't expect you to be on the ground, your first super jump will make you hit an invisible ceiling halfway up to the door, which then has you land on an invisible platform. Do another super jump to the door and the rest is a cakewalk.

***Edit 2***
Apparently that invisible platform is actually the kill trigger, so going on the ground is not possible. But I have figured out [url=http://www.filefront.com/14110579/p2c3-skiptram.avi]how[/url] to skip the tram anyway :)  It's a good idea to grab the sniper rifle before you bypass it though. You might also need to kill the guy blocking the doorway (he's on the outside of the building). Without grenades I found the bat is the only other weapon that can hit him through the door (unless you know which spot in the warehouse will trigger him to enter).
[/quote]

For a NYM run its definitely quicker to roll as the timer slows down when you are rolling. Obviously for real time its quicker to just run. I have even timed rolling up stairs which is still a bit faster. Basically you realise that rolling is quicker than running in the prologues, that is because rolling is not in any sort of slow-mo there. In the other levels rolling is quicker for the NYM timer as it takes into acount a slight bit of slow-mo as you roll, if that makes any sense.

It was decided it should be an IL run back when the previous run was I submitted and I prefer it like that. It means I could pick up any level down the line and redo it if a big skip was found. Whereas if it was a segmented run I would have to do the WHOLE thing again which would take ages. For people wanting to watch the whole thing in one go its not a big deal to get a download manager and put it on a playlist. Or maybe I could make an appended file available as well on the gamepage.

So just to clarify theres p2c2 as you showed me, theres a super jump at the start of p2c3 to get on the walkway then what you showed me. p2c4 nothing and p2c5 1 jump up to the 2nd level? p2c3 looks good by the way so thanks for that. 
For part 3 I reckon theres 1 for p3c1 getting up to the 2nd level in the 2nd of the lava rooms
p3c2 nothing I can think of. 
p3c3 again nothing. 
p3c4 a jump on 1 of the levels over some bars which are in the way to save having to go round. 
p3c5 possibly a jump up to where the guy with the laser sniper is but it might be too high, otherwise in the offices over the office walls to save going around. 
p3c6 jump at the start, jump in the room with the abseilers.
p3c7 nothing!
p3c8 nothing. 
I literally did that in my head so I may well have missed some things.

On a final note I would like your opinion on a gameplay quality check of the run. Before the introduction of the superjump I never gave up until a seconds improvement did not look possible as it was completely under my control to do so. Now with the superjump I am on p1c6 and several times I get the 1st jump on the first go and it takes 2 goes to get the 2nd jump. This costs a second so the question is, what do I let go? I have already tried loads more to get both jumps in 1 go. Obviously everything else will be perfect but its a question of hours extra to save a second and this may well happen a lot. For example p2c2 where there are like 4-5 super jumps to do. Given I haven't got the metronome yet I could wait for that and then do you think it is feasible to get them all first go? Or is 2 attempts at a jump perfectly acceptable to you? (I know it won't be rejected thats not what I am asking).

honorableJay

2009-07-24 07:48:08 am

The Dork Knight himself.

I'd say 2 attempts per jump is acceptable, with 3 on the outright assumption that the rest of the segment goes better than flawless (enemies go down quickly and/or kill each other, etc etc) but only if you have 1 or 2 jumps to do. For the p2c2 segment where you have the 4 jumps, you might wanna give yourself a little more room for mistakes considering just how much time it saves. It's really just how you want it to look. If I were doing it I'd practice the jumps a hundred times over then record a thousand times more until I'd be left with no hair, but that's just me.

I can't remember much about part 3, so I'll have to look at that chapter when I get some time (I hate work).

ridd3r.

Edit history:

ridd3r.: 2009-07-24 05:57:18 pm

2009-07-24 12:54:55 pm

we have lift off

YES! Done p1c6 with both jumps done first time. Christ it took over 1000 attempts! It took over 700-800 tries since I did the 1 second slower run! Well over 1000 if you include my attempts before the super jump was discovered. Absolutely horrible level, what with that jump at the start off the fire escape where you can't afford to lose a lot of health. The worst thing was I did it all really well then I somehow must have not gone far enough onto the platform in the cutscene and ended up rolling off the building and losing all my health! A total of 4 times I successfully got to the end with both jumps done first time but for some reason or other I messed up right at the end. Another thing factoring the timing for this level is if the guy who gets you into the laundry gets stuck a bit on the rats running around. You have to try and take a few out that are in the way on the way down but several times he arrived a second or 2 late and I had to restart.

Anyway, for an IL run such as this I am finding it impossible to leave a level which has a seconds improvement to make. I don't think I'll be happy even with p2c2 until I get every super jump first time. Its going to challenge my sanity at some point, my head was so crammed with all the mess ups I had done right at the end that I had to try really hard to put it aside. Anyway onto p1c7 now! Just the 2 super jumps on this level, its p1c8 I'm worried about as theres at least 2 there and one is right at the end. I'll just be really glad once I get p1c7-9 out of the way and can go back to p2c2.

EDIT: For p1c7 there is only 1 super jump shortcut correct? At the construction site you can use it to boost to the 2nd level (can't get to the top even from the van, stack or container in 1 jump).
You can't use the boost to the roof right near the start as then when you get to the elevator cutscene vinni isn't there and the game gets stuck in the cutscene. Theres no way to win the fight if you skip there early so its just that small shortcut as far as I can see, do you agree?

YES! Done p1c6 with both jumps done first time. Christ it took over 1000 attempts! It took over 700-800 tries since I did the 1 second slower run! Well over 1000 if you include my attempts before the super jump was discovered. Absolutely horrible level, what with that jump at the start off the fire escape where you can't afford to lose a lot of health. The worst thing was I did it all really well then I somehow must have not gone far enough onto the platform in the cutscene and ended up rolling off the building and losing all my health! A total of 4 times I successfully got to the end with both jumps done first time but for some reason or other I messed up right at the end. Another thing factoring the timing for this level is if the guy who gets you into the laundry gets stuck a bit on the rats running around. You have to try and take a few out that are in the way on the way down but several times he arrived a second or 2 late and I had to restart.

Anyway, for an IL run such as this I am finding it impossible to leave a level which has a seconds improvement to make. I don't think I'll be happy even with p2c2 until I get every super jump first time. Its going to challenge my sanity at some point, my head was so crammed with all the mess ups I had done right at the end that I had to try really hard to put it aside. Anyway onto p1c7 now! Just the 2 super jumps on this level, its p1c8 I'm worried about as theres at least 2 there and one is right at the end. I'll just be really glad once I get p1c7-9 out of the way and can go back to p2c2.

EDIT: For p1c7 there is only 1 super jump shortcut correct? At the construction site you can use it to boost to the 2nd level (can't get to the top even from the van, stack or container in 1 jump). 
You can't use the boost to the roof right near the start as then when you get to the elevator cutscene vinni isn't there and the game gets stuck in the cutscene. Theres no way to win the fight if you skip there early so its just that small shortcut as far as I can see, do you agree?

honorableJay

2009-07-24 08:57:07 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

Yup, that's the only super jump that can be used on the entire level of p1c7, which is a bummer. The worst part is from the beginning of the map if you move forward towards the corner where the first two bad guys come from you can literally SEE the fire escape you get to at the end of the level (right before taking down Vinni). What's even more annoying is directly across from the rooftop (that you can see that fire escape from) there's a ladder on the side of the building you can't get to........for no apparent reason. I had assumed that if you could get stuck on it you could do another super jump to get to the fire escape, but even then I was disappointed since there just happens to be an invisible ceiling that cuts you off mid-flight Sad

If only that would've worked, the entire level could've been chopped in half.

I swear we gotta find some way to get wedged inside walls to set off triggers on the other side of a door.

ridd3r.

2009-07-25 06:30:57 am

we have lift off

Quote from honorableJay:

I swear we gotta find some way to get wedged inside walls to set off triggers on the other side of a door.

Funny you should say that, I think its only happened once but I was doing p1c4 and in the 2nd area I accidentally super jumped into the door frame or something very close to the door frame of the door that leads to the furnace room (where you start p2c1). I got stuck up there sort of in the wall above the door but the game hates anything like this and kills you very quickly. Its like has happened multiple times (like the end of the youtube video) if you ever get stuck on anything thats not the ground the game kills you as it thinks you are falling or something. I would guess that in order to get in the walls requires very specific conditions (like an open door), a lot of luck and once there you probably can't get out and the game will kill you.

I have tried multiple times to get back in there but had no luck. Unfortunately I don't have the incident on video but I really think its not something that would actually help us out.

[quote="honorableJay"]
I swear we gotta find some way to get wedged inside walls to set off triggers on the other side of a door.
[/quote]

Funny you should say that, I think its only happened once but I was doing p1c4 and in the 2nd area I accidentally super jumped into the door frame or something very close to the door frame of the door that leads to the furnace room (where you start p2c1). I got stuck up there sort of in the wall above the door but the game hates anything like this and kills you very quickly. Its like has happened multiple times (like the end of the youtube video) if you ever get stuck on anything thats not the ground the game kills you as it thinks you are falling or something. I would guess that in order to get in the walls requires very specific conditions (like an open door), a lot of luck and once there you probably can't get out and the game will kill you.

I have tried multiple times to get back in there but had no luck. Unfortunately I don't have the incident on video but I really think its not something that would actually help us out.

honorableJay

2009-07-25 05:14:43 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

Well, just finished tearing through part 3, and I am slightly disappointed in the lack of skips available. Total breakdown as such:

p3c1: none
p3c2: obvious one, super jump to the broken ramp (you'll see it)
p3c3: none
p3c4: shoot open the gate, then super jump over the bars at your right (causes some enemies to be frozen)
p3c5: two possible jumps. The first is the hall where you first witness the laser scope. Enemy is high to the right. I can get to the ledge, but I can't actually land on it. This doesn't mean it's impossible, but highly unlikely. If it can be done, the exit is straight ahead from the landing position. There other one is later on, you'll get to the circular room on the 3rd level. You can super jump over the railing (not possibly to just jump over) then roll jump down to the second level. Damage is estimated at about 1/3 to 1/2.
p3c6: From the start, move right and super jump to the upper catwalk (causes 3 enemies to not spawn). Next one is a few rooms away, going up the first set of stairs, just super jump towards the wall on the right side (hugging it of course) as soon as you have clearance and you'll go straight for the intended door. Next room you can jump on a bookcase and super jump to the top level (avoids running around the room). Once you get back to the circular room on the 3rd level, you can again roll jump down to the second level (can save up to 30 seconds depending on how quickly it's performed, avoids a ton of enemies including snipers).
p3c7: Right at the start, walk to the desk and jump on it. Turn around and super jump to the light. Jump up the cable (normal jumps, one at a time or you'll fall off, walking isn't recommended). Once on the second level, face the glass with the middle pillar to your left (you have to stand on the handrail) and super jump up. Immediately spin the mouse around so you land on the 3rd level. You're now at the elevator where you run into Mona.
p3c8: none. It is possible to use the grenade launcher to snap the cables on the roof, but the game will get stuck in an endless loop since the helicopter isn't up there yet.

Here's a quickie on the more memorable skips. I forgot to include the one for p3c5 but since it's the same jump as p3c6 you should be able to figure it out.

Well, just finished tearing through part 3, and I am slightly disappointed in the lack of skips available. Total breakdown as such:

p3c1: none
p3c2: obvious one, super jump to the broken ramp (you'll see it)
p3c3: none
p3c4: shoot open the gate, then super jump over the bars at your right (causes some enemies to be frozen)
p3c5: two possible jumps. The first is the hall where you first witness the laser scope. Enemy is high to the right. I can get to the ledge, but I can't actually land on it. This doesn't mean it's impossible, but highly unlikely. If it can be done, the exit is straight ahead from the landing position. There other one is later on, you'll get to the circular room on the 3rd level. You can super jump over the railing (not possibly to just jump over) then roll jump down to the second level. Damage is estimated at about 1/3 to 1/2. 
p3c6: From the start, move right and super jump to the upper catwalk (causes 3 enemies to not spawn). Next one is a few rooms away, going up the first set of stairs, just super jump towards the wall on the right side (hugging it of course) as soon as you have clearance and you'll go straight for the intended door. Next room you can jump on a bookcase and super jump to the top level (avoids running around the room). Once you get back to the circular room on the 3rd level, you can again roll jump down to the second level (can save up to 30 seconds depending on how quickly it's performed, avoids a ton of enemies including snipers).
p3c7: Right at the start, walk to the desk and jump on it. Turn around and super jump to the light. Jump up the cable (normal jumps, one at a time or you'll fall off, walking isn't recommended). Once on the second level, face the glass with the middle pillar to your left (you have to stand on the handrail) and super jump up. Immediately spin the mouse around so you land on the 3rd level. You're now at the elevator where you run into Mona. 
p3c8: none. It is possible to use the grenade launcher to snap the cables on the roof, but the game will get stuck in an endless loop since the helicopter isn't up there yet.

[url=http://www.filefront.com/14122811/p3skips.avi]Here's a quickie on the more memorable skips.[/url] I forgot to include the one for p3c5 but since it's the same jump as p3c6 you should be able to figure it out.