Dungeon Keeper

2009-03-15 08:44:10 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote from zoonel:

As i said, in 0:54. After a moment he act like crazy ^^
see for yourself : http://files.filefront.com/dktest+LQmp4/;13473820;/fileinfo.html

ps:can you still me send your keeper95.exe?

wtf.. does he always go "crazy" like that? I remember my reaper did that too a couple of times, but it happens very rarely for me. Try to time him without him going crazy (unless he does that every single time).

as for keeper95.exe, its not that simple to un-do your patch, because it requires more file modifications (if im not mistaken). So it would probably be better for me to update my game instead. Either way its pointless because im not about to re-run the whole damn game. But just for kicks, how should i install the patch? Is it the the patch for ancient keeper? Or should i just get Dk gold?

zoonel

Edit history:

zoonel: 2009-03-16 11:17:20 am

2009-03-15 09:02:06 pm

Go play spacechem !

Quote from 12114:

wtf.. does he always go "crazy" like that? I remember my reaper did that too a couple of times, but it happens very rarely for me. Try to time him without him going crazy (unless he does that every single time).

as for keeper95.exe, its not that simple to un-do your patch, because it requires more file modifications (if im not mistaken). So it would probably be better for me to update my game instead. Either way its pointless because im not about to re-run the whole damn game. But just for kicks, how should i install the patch? Is it the the patch for ancient keeper? Or should i just get Dk gold?

Always if i drop him and he attack from South. He didnt do it if i bring him in an angle with possession. And the time is the same as yours if he dont get crazy -> 1:14
I will not un-do my patch i will just replace my .exe with yours to see in how long it takes.

patch is here: http://z9.invisionfree.com/Keeper_Klan_Forum/index.php?showtopic=664

edit: did some test with old keeper95.exe, and the time is the same. Also between normal and patched version, only the .exe is different.
->killing the heart take me 37 sec from first blow to first lightning. From first hit to explosion its 40 sec.

[quote="12114"]
wtf.. does he always go "crazy" like that?  I remember my reaper did that too a couple of times, but it happens very rarely for me. Try to time him without him going crazy (unless he does that every single time).

as for keeper95.exe, its not that simple to un-do your patch, because it requires more file modifications (if im not mistaken). So it would probably be better for me to update my game instead. Either way its pointless because im not about to re-run the whole damn game. But just for kicks, how should i install the patch? Is it the the patch for ancient keeper? Or should i just get Dk gold?
[/quote]

Always if i drop him and he attack from South. He didnt do it if i bring him in an angle with possession. And the time is the same as yours if he dont get crazy -> 1:14
I will not un-do my patch i will just replace my .exe with yours to see in how long it takes.

patch is here: http://z9.invisionfree.com/Keeper_Klan_Forum/index.php?showtopic=664

edit: did some test with old keeper95.exe, and the time is the same. Also between normal and patched version, only the .exe is different.
->killing the heart take me 37 sec from first blow to first lightning. From first hit to explosion its 40 sec.

Poesta

2009-03-16 02:10:40 pm

Yarr

The downloads on that forum are for members only. Cry

I think it's best to use the old version. It's probably faster because the AI has some weak spots like the orcs not attacking in the beginning of the game like 12114 mentioned. From the FAQ:

Quote:

If a game has been patched and there are multiple versions, it is recommended to use whichever version makes for the fastest run.

About horny's attack: I don't think you can swing faster as a set time because the normal attack also has a set recharge time(?) Maybe zoonel can swing faster because he has a faster cpu.

12114

Edit history:

12114: 2009-03-16 03:18:24 pm

2009-03-16 02:20:32 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

all is good now (i can kill heart in 37 sec now). thx to zoonelovich for helping Grin

the only thing that sucks now is that my beatiful lvl 16 run got beaten Cry

but then again the patch affects the orcs in that level, so technically i dont have to re-do it Grin

p.s zoonel, have you dug north in my test map and tried to kill the vampie with a lvl 9 horny? I cant do it Sad

I think no horny can ever kill a vampire, whether hes lvl 9 or 10 and whether or not you posess him.

edit: nvm i was able to barely kill the vampire with a lvl 10 horny +posession on another test map. Just cant kill him with a level 9 Sad

zoonel

Edit history:

zoonel: 2009-03-16 04:10:36 pm

2009-03-16 03:59:55 pm

Go play spacechem !

i'll test the horny vs vampire thing : i cant kill the vampire.

@poesta: the maximum is 20 game turn per second, 12114 reach that speed (like a lot of us). Maybe its my mouse/mouse driver who is better handled by the game.
for the patch maybe try here: http://dungeon-keeper.net/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=49&func=select&id=21

The differences from patched version vs non-patched version that i'v seen (speedrun wise) :
map 08 : in patched version the AI very rarely dig the mine gold like in the non-patcher 12114 run (did it once in lot of tries)
map 16 : in patched version the AI rarely ignore your minions, but it happens sometimes

@12114: so what's your decision? you run under the un-patched version or the patched one?

12114

Edit history:

12114: 2009-03-16 04:34:15 pm

2009-03-16 04:20:04 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

ill run with the old patch of course (like ive always been doing), because you cant switch patches in the midst of your run... i'd have to re-do all my runs, otherwise it wouldnt make sense.

btw new patch or not, makes no difference for swinging speed.
as i said everything is good since today and i can kill a heart in 37 sec now (like zoonel).

p.s that vampire owns us in that test map Grin

edit: yay i owned the vampie with the lvl 9 reaper Grin

Poesta

2009-03-17 08:39:51 am

Yarr

What did you do to make it in 37 seconds? And do you use Fraps for recording or the DK recordin program that was mentioned some pages back?

zoonel

2009-03-17 10:26:59 am

Go play spacechem !

Quote from Poesta:

What did you do to make it in 37 seconds? And do you use Fraps for recording or the DK recordin program that was mentioned some pages back?

I'm asking me the same question for the 37sec...
We record with Fraps on low resolution (alt+r in game), fraps doesnt record anything in high resolution. Fraps also doesnt record anything between the levels (world with flags, stats screen, ...)

12114

Edit history:

12114: 2009-03-18 09:23:19 pm

2009-03-18 07:56:50 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

ok i cant get level 20 in under 21 min. my best is 21:19 so far, but my strategies suck so its time to ask my mentor (zoonel) for a video Grin

i did 20:34 or something once but it was bugged, i didnt have to kill avatar for the second time for some reason, and it said you've conquered this realm.... really strange.

p.s my goal is 19:xx

edit: ok i optimized my strategy and i think i can do under 20 now.
edit2: yeah, i did under 20 now Grin

Poesta

2009-03-22 10:12:39 am

Yarr

I read somewhere that if you possess a low-level creature you can still use high level spells/abilities by pressing the number linked to it. It doesn't work for me but I have the patched version. If it works, I bet you could gain some valuable seconds by using speed, e.g. on a horny that isn't level 5 yet.

zoonel

2009-03-22 12:18:13 pm

Go play spacechem !

Quote from Poesta:

I read somewhere that if you possess a low-level creature you can still use high level spells/abilities by pressing the number linked to it. It doesn't work for me but I have the patched version. If it works, I bet you could gain some valuable seconds by using speed, e.g. on a horny that isn't level 5 yet.

Doesnt work for me (with new & old .exe)

Quote from 12114:

ok i cant get level 20 in under 21 min. my best is 21:19 so far, but my strategies suck so its time to ask my mentor (zoonel) for a video Grin

i did 20:34 or something once but it was bugged, i didnt have to kill avatar for the second time for some reason, and it said you've conquered this realm.... really strange.

p.s my goal is 19:xx

edit: ok i optimized my strategy and i think i can do under 20 now.
edit2: yeah, i did under 20 now Grin

You beat me on this one, i cant go under 20min :s
Also what you think is a bug is not Wink

, the trigger is like this :
kill avatar ->wait 50 sec->wave 1->wait 7 sec->wave 2->wait 11 sec->wave 3->wait 5 sec->wave 4->wait 7 sec->final wave + avatar
the winning condition is:
[tt]IF(PLAYER_GOOD,FLAG2 == 1)
IF(PLAYER_GOOD,TOTAL_CREATURES == 0)
IF(PLAYER_GOOD,~~AVATAR~~ == 0)
WIN_GAME
ENDIF
ENDIF
ENDIF[/tt]
As you can see with the orange color, the flag condition is automaticaly reach at wave 2. Till the final wave there is no avatar.
All you have to do is to kill all heroes before final wave, you have less then 23 sec todo it.
It seems a good news but wave 1 contains 2 giants lvl 10 + 2 barbarians lvl 10 who spawns at the blue keeper dungeon heart. Either you rely on luck and hope the blue one will get rid of those in less then 23 sec, either you kill the blue one and set up a plan to kill the giants&barbarians. Problem is you wont have bridge till you kill the avatar.

[quote="Poesta"]
I read somewhere that if you possess a low-level creature you can still use high level spells/abilities by pressing the number linked to it. It doesn't work for me but I have the patched version. If it works, I bet you could gain some valuable seconds by using speed, e.g. on a horny that isn't level 5 yet.
[/quote]
Doesnt work for me (with new & old .exe)

[quote="12114"]
ok i cant get level 20 in under 21 min. my best is 21:19 so far, but my strategies suck so its time to ask my mentor (zoonel) for a video ;D

i did 20:34 or something once but it was bugged, i didnt have to kill avatar for the second time for some reason, and it said you've conquered this realm.... really strange.

p.s my goal is 19:xx

edit: ok i optimized my strategy and i think i can do under 20 now.
edit2: yeah, i did under 20 now ;D
[/quote]
You beat me on this one, i cant go under 20min :s
Also what you think is a bug is not  ;) , the trigger is like this :
kill avatar ->wait 50 sec->wave 1->wait 7 sec[color=orange]->wave 2[/color]->wait 11 sec->wave 3->wait 5 sec->wave 4->wait 7 sec->final wave + [color=red]avatar[/color]
the winning condition is:
[tt]IF(PLAYER_GOOD,[color=orange]FLAG2 == 1[/color])
	IF(PLAYER_GOOD,[u][b][size=10pt]TOTAL_CREATURES == 0[/size][/b][/u])
		IF(PLAYER_GOOD,[color=red][s]AVATAR[/s][/color] == 0)
			[color=purple]WIN_GAME[/color]
		ENDIF
	ENDIF
ENDIF[/tt]
As you can see with the orange color, the flag condition is automaticaly reach at wave 2. Till the final wave there is no avatar.
All you have to do is to kill all heroes before final wave, you have less then 23 sec todo it.
It seems a good news but wave 1 contains 2 giants lvl 10 + 2 barbarians lvl 10 who spawns at the blue keeper dungeon heart. Either you rely on luck and hope the blue one will get rid of those in less then 23 sec, either you kill the blue one and set up a plan to kill the giants&barbarians. Problem is you wont have bridge till you kill the avatar.

Poesta

2009-03-22 01:24:31 pm

Yarr

No, it doesn't work on my unpatched installation either. Undecided

zoonel

2009-03-22 04:27:28 pm

Go play spacechem !

So the run is completed , and the time seems good Grin

hope you beat my new times for lvl 18 [4:18] and lvl 20 [16:58] 8)

12114

2009-03-22 05:02:39 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

"So the run is completed , and the time seems good ;D"

yeah, my next goal is to post a video quality test in the forums and after it gets rejected (due to bad quality) then ill probably update the first post and reupload videos. However i don't want to clutter my youtube account with too much DK videos, so im not sure what i'll do.

"hope you beat my new times for lvl 18 [4:18]"

i did 3:xx 3 days ago ;D. I've rebeaten a number of maps in the past 3 days and ill tell the exact times later Grin

"and lvl 20 [16:58]"

ok you got me there... but im not sure if im motivated enough to re-beat maps anymore. But for 16:58, did you use a transfered creature (level 9 priestess) or not?

zoonel

2009-03-22 05:34:37 pm

Go play spacechem !

Quote from 12114:

"So the run is completed , and the time seems good ;D"

yeah, my next goal is to post a video quality test in the forums and after it gets rejected (due to bad quality) then ill probably update the first post and reupload videos. However i don't want to clutter my youtube account with too much DK videos, so im not sure what i'll do.

You can try anri-chan, its easy to use (i used it for my videos). There is also one guy providing a ftp to host speedruns somewhere on this forum.

Quote from 12114:

"hope you beat my new times for lvl 18 [4:18]"

i did 3:xx 3 days ago ;D. I've rebeaten a number of maps in the past 3 days and ill tell the exact times later Grin

that's very good, and i thought my time was good :p

Quote from 12114:

"and lvl 20 [16:58]"

ok you got me there... but im not sure if im motivated enough to re-beat maps anymore. But for 16:58, did you use a transfered creature (level 9 priestess) or not?

I did a little break because i couldnt beat 21:30 for lvl 20 and i was tired of that lvl and here i am with a sub 17 min :). What i'm saying is to not rush to complete the run, you've done the hardest, take a break and then retry the levels you think are not good enough ; maybe you'll end with new strategies ;).

lvl 20 was done without a transfered creature, i used 11 boulder traps, lots of lvl 3 imps, and i abused the underrated cave-in spell ^^
cave-in to kill the first avatar, used 100k gold
desease+cave-in to kill the second avatar , another 100k gold
Also at start i rush the good dungeon heart with a dragon, then all tentacles etc... go to blue dungeon to get killed 8)
The strategy can be perfectionned, and eventually i'll do a record. But if you hare on a hurry, i'm not so dont expect it before a few days Tongue

[quote="12114"]
"So the run is completed , and the time seems good ;D"

yeah, my next goal is to post a video quality test in the forums and after it gets rejected (due to bad quality) then ill probably update the first post and reupload videos. However i don't want to clutter my youtube account with too much DK videos, so im not sure what i'll do.
[/quote]
You can try anri-chan, its easy to use (i used it for my videos). There is also one guy providing a ftp to host speedruns somewhere on this forum.
[quote="12114"]
"hope you beat my new times for lvl 18 [4:18]"

i did 3:xx 3 days ago ;D. I've rebeaten a number of maps in the past 3 days and ill tell the exact times later ;D
[/quote]
 :o that's very good, and i thought my time was good :p

[quote="12114"]
"and lvl 20 [16:58]"

ok you got me there... but im not sure if im motivated enough to re-beat maps anymore. But for 16:58, did you use a transfered creature (level 9 priestess) or not?
[/quote]
I did a little break because i couldnt beat 21:30 for lvl 20 and i was tired of that lvl and here i am with a sub 17 min :). What i'm saying is to not rush to complete the run, you've done the hardest, take a break and then retry the levels you think are not good enough ; maybe you'll end with new strategies ;).

lvl 20 was done without a transfered creature, i used 11 boulder traps, lots of lvl 3 imps, and i abused the underrated cave-in spell ^^
cave-in to kill the first avatar, used 100k gold
desease+cave-in to kill the second avatar , another 100k gold
Also at start i rush the good dungeon heart with a dragon, then all tentacles etc... go to blue dungeon to get killed  8)
The strategy can be perfectionned, and eventually i'll do a record. But if you hare on a hurry, i'm not so dont expect it before a few days  :P

Poesta

2009-03-23 11:29:54 am

Yarr

Quote from zoonel:

hope you beat my new times for lvl 18 [4:18] and lvl 20 [16:58] 8)

You can submit too if your run connects with 12114's runs. That could be a problem if a transfered creature transfers a certain amount of xp with him, you'd have to exchange savegames. It would be a DKDQ team. Grin

zoonel

2009-03-23 02:54:23 pm

Go play spacechem !

Quote from Poesta:

Quote from zoonel:

hope you beat my new times for lvl 18 [4:18] and lvl 20 [16:58] 8)

You can submit too if your run connects with 12114's runs. That could be a problem if a transfered creature transfers a certain amount of xp with him, you'd have to exchange savegames. It would be a DKDQ team. Grin

We dont run on same patch Undecided

. And creatures doesnt transfer amount of xp or anything, just their type and level (2 bytes to modify in the savegame).
I improved lvl 20 from 16:58 to 16:12 , still no video to show Lips Sealed

@12114 : why, oh why, didnt you keep the original fraps videos :'(. You could've burned them on cd or dvd, also 350 mb can be compressed to 70 mb with 7zip (3.48 Go to 626 Mb)

12114

2009-03-23 03:46:34 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote from zoonel:

Quote from Poesta:

Quote from zoonel:

hope you beat my new times for lvl 18 [4:18] and lvl 20 [16:58] 8)

You can submit too if your run connects with 12114's runs. That could be a problem if a transfered creature transfers a certain amount of xp with him, you'd have to exchange savegames. It would be a DKDQ team. Grin

We dont run on same patch Undecided

. And creatures doesnt transfer amount of xp or anything, just their type and level (2 bytes to modify in the savegame).
I improved lvl 20 from 16:58 to 16:12 , still no video to show Lips Sealed

@12114 : why, oh why, didnt you keep the original fraps videos :'(. You could've burned them on cd or dvd, also 350 mb can be compressed to 70 mb with 7zip (3.48 Go to 626 Mb)

@ poesta: experience doesnt add up from the previous level, only levels do. For example: if you had a level 9.9 horned reaper in level 1 and transfered him, he will be 9.0 in the next level.

@zoonel: i started running this game just for fun and to show that it can be done. But towards the end of the run i thought that it would be kinda cool to submit it to this site... and here we are Grin

p.s zoonel dont you check your pm's? Grin

[quote="zoonel"]
[quote="Poesta"]
[quote="zoonel"]
hope you beat my new times for lvl 18 [4:18] and lvl 20 [16:58]  8)

[/quote]

You can submit too if your run connects with 12114's runs. That could be a problem if a transfered creature transfers a certain amount of xp with him, you'd have to exchange savegames. It would be a DKDQ team. ;D
[/quote]
We dont run on same patch  :-\ . And creatures doesnt transfer amount of xp or anything, just their type and level (2 bytes to modify in the savegame).
I improved lvl 20 from 16:58 to 16:12 , still no video to show  :-X

@12114 : why, oh why, didnt you keep the original fraps videos  :'(. You could've burned them on cd or dvd, also 350 mb can be compressed to 70 mb with 7zip (3.48 Go to 626 Mb)

[/quote]

@ poesta: experience doesnt add up from the previous level, only levels do. For example: if you had a level 9.9 horned reaper in level 1 and transfered him, he will be 9.0 in the next level.

@zoonel: i started running this game just for fun and to show that it can be done. But towards the end of the run i thought that it would be kinda cool to submit it to this site... and here we are ;D

p.s zoonel dont you check your pm's? ;D

Ver Greeneyes

2009-03-24 06:04:26 am

Are you guys going for a levels table of this game, or a segmented run starting from new game? I'm not sure what the rules are on level tables, whether they can work with creature transfers being available.. (it's been a while since I've played this game, how does it determine whether to transfer over a creature?)

zoonel

2009-03-24 09:41:42 am

Go play spacechem !

Quote from Ver Greeneyes:

Are you guys going for a levels table of this game, or a segmented run starting from new game? I'm not sure what the rules are on level tables, whether they can work with creature transfers being available.. (it's been a while since I've played this game, how does it determine whether to transfer over a creature?)

Most likely not.
By levels table, you mean like starcraft, running individual levels independently from each other? That wouldnt be compatible with transfer creatures. Transfer creature (TC) works this way, you must find a TC special box in the map then when you use it you have to choose between one of your creatures, that creature will be available at start of next level (not exactly the same creature but a creature from same type and level).
You can thus play hours on level A to make a lvl 9 horned reaper, then transfer him to level B and speedrun level B. Then redo level B with the reaper more slowly to take a TC box to speedrun C, etc... Either you allow this and end up with non compatibles levels runs, or you impose not to take TC.

Deeper dungeons can be done with individual levels speedruns because there are no transfer creature boxes.

[quote="Ver Greeneyes"]
Are you guys going for a levels table of this game, or a segmented run starting from new game? I'm not sure what the rules are on level tables, whether they can work with creature transfers being available.. (it's been a while since I've played this game, how does it determine whether to transfer over a creature?)
[/quote]
Most likely not.
By levels table, you mean like starcraft, running individual levels independently from each other? That wouldnt be compatible with transfer creatures. Transfer creature (TC) works this way, you must find a TC special box in the map then when you use it you have to choose between one of your creatures, that creature will be available at start of next level (not exactly the same creature but a creature from same type and level).
You can thus play hours on level A to make a lvl 9 horned reaper, then transfer him to level B and speedrun level B. Then redo level B with the reaper more slowly to take a TC box to speedrun C, etc... Either you allow this and end up with non compatibles levels runs, or you impose not to take TC.

Deeper dungeons can be done with individual levels speedruns because there are no transfer creature boxes.

Kabuto

2009-03-24 04:30:17 pm

Asked mikwuyma about IL tables. This is what I got:

1. If nothing transfers between stages aside from the creature, then yes, ILs are fine.

2. Bonus levels would be a part of the IL table.

Poesta

2009-03-25 10:42:55 am

Yarr

Could you put the times back up please?

12114

2009-03-26 06:58:20 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote from Poesta:

Could you put the times back up please?

there's no point since a lot of them will be probably beaten in summer (going to re-do). i can list them anyway though, still need?

zoonel

2009-03-27 12:13:50 am

Go play spacechem !

yes list them so i can have a time goal Smiley

(or anyone who wants to try run it)
not to mention that its very frustrating to see the final time whithout anything else.

As promised here is a video of lvl 20, still in foreign language with "messed" view angle Grin

:
lvl 20 in 15:31
http://drop.io/DK1_LVL_20/
you can choose between bad or good quality.

Sometimes my mouse do weird things and end up in unwanted places, it happens sometimes in this game, i'm not acting crazy Tongue

A lot of things went good in this run:

no curious tentacle who wants to know what my dragon is doing near this magic door
all flies and beetles coming to help me kill the heart
fly hiring the reaper instead of possessing an imp to do it
fast 5 trolls
avatar door already down
troll invasion instead of dragons
enough money at the end
additionnal trap for center wave

however some things got wrong:

hatchery taken and all those starving creatures going to eat instead of working
late troll torture

and some things could have been optimised:

less traps for the pre-avatar waves
re-arrange traps in the center castle so only 2 traps are needed

yes list them so i can have a time goal :) (or anyone who wants to try run it)
not to mention that its very frustrating to see the final time whithout anything else.

As promised here is a video of lvl 20, still in foreign language with "messed" view angle  ;D :
[u]lvl 20 in 15:31[/u]
http://drop.io/DK1_LVL_20/
you can choose between bad or good quality.

Sometimes my mouse do weird things and end up in unwanted places, it happens sometimes in this game, i'm not acting crazy :P
A lot of things went good in this run:
[list]
[li]no curious tentacle who wants to know what my dragon is doing near this magic door[/li]
[li]all flies and beetles coming to help me kill the heart[/li]
[li]fly hiring the reaper instead of possessing an imp to do it[/li]
[li]fast 5 trolls[/li]
[li]avatar door already down[/li]
[li]troll invasion instead of dragons[/li]
[li]enough money at the end[/li]
[li]additionnal trap for center wave[/li]
[li][/li]
[li][/li]
[/list]

however some things got wrong:
[list]
[li]hatchery taken and all those starving creatures going to eat instead of working[/li]
[li]late troll torture[/li]
[/list]

and some things could have been optimised:
[list]
[li]less traps for the pre-avatar waves[/li]
[li]re-arrange traps in the center castle so only 2 traps are needed[/li]
[/list]

Poesta

Edit history:

Poesta: 2009-03-27 10:46:52 am

2009-03-27 09:28:02 am

Yarr

@12114: yeah like zoonel said so I can have some kind of target time. I'm not sure if I will do some recording, but this whole thread got me into Dungeon Keeper again. Grin

Did you just sacrifice your creatures in the portal?!? What's going on at 6:40?

You could torture a troll a little earlier, remember that it increases the speed of other trolls by 25%, so when you got 5 and you torture one, you still got 4 x 125 = 500% so you can start torturing at 5 trolls (you didn't have the torture chamber when you had 5 trolls, though). I believe the health is restored with each level gained, so he won't die (not sure though). Maybe you could use the must obey spell to speed things up?

Anyway that's a brilliant video. Good use of traps and spells. Oh, and sometimes my cursor behaves weird too. I thought it was just the batteries...