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I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
@poesta: whats this music you're talking about? You mean sound in general or what? I never get any music either...
@zoonel: check ur pms, i need to give you a new link Grin
Yarr





I like Mystic Tunnels the best.
Edit history:
Poesta: 2009-04-04 10:45:55 am
Yarr
I'm now playing DK Gold from an image and the music works just fine. Huh?
@12114: why did you remove the videos from your YT channel page?

Edit: I mounted the image of the original DK and now I also have music, even when I play from the cd. I don't know how I fixed it though.
Quote from Poesta:
Then why does it play without the audio cable on my brother's pc? This isn't a repackaged version or something. The newest files on the cd were modified on February 1998.

I got the d3d version to work in compatibility mode, but no music either.

Edit: onboard soundcard doesn't work either.

Edit: tried the kX driver. Nope. I give up.

Are you on Windows XP? I just noticed while working on someone else's computer (which has an Audigy 2 ZS in it) that 'CD Audio' and 'CD Digital' are separate in volume control - but more importantly, 'CD Digital' is hidden and muted by default. Hope this'll help Undecided
Yarr
I also have an Audigy 2 and I tried to unmute digital CD audio (it's also hidden by default) but it didn't work. When I disable normal CD audio the music doesn't work, for cds and for images. Maybe the music now works because I reinstalled the drivers.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Quote from Poesta:
I also have an Audigy 2 and I tried to unmute digital CD audio (it's also hidden by default) but it didn't work. When I disable normal CD audio the music doesn't work, for cds and for images. Maybe the music now works because I reinstalled the drivers.


so when are you going to start doing runs? Grin

p.s zoonel, hows the map ^_^
Yarr
Well I'm just playing DK for fun now. I would like to finish my Thief 2 run first but I'm quite busy with the exams coming up.
Edit history:
maddog: 2019-10-23 01:27:45 pm
Hi everyone!

When looking at last posts dated 2009 :D, I'm not sure if there is anybody that still shares the same sentiment to this game, but I'll ask anyway Smiley

I have a question - in lvl17th of a speedrun, there is a lvl10 imp at the start of the gameplay footage - this means, that this imp has been transfered from a "hidden world"
(additional levels aside of regular 20 levels in DK)

There is no "segment" that would show a gamplay to have the imp there, so the overall completion time does not include this time.
Does this mean that this speed run DK record time should be ammended to include secret level gameplay time?
DK is one of the many games I'd like to speedrun, and I'll certainly watch whatever work-in-progress videos you post here in case I have constructive feedback.

Could you try to contact Poesta and whoever else used to run the game before? It could be they've just moved to some Discord and are posting run times on speedrun.com instead. Please note that in our minds, that's not "the same thing" compared to a full-fledged SDA submission with notes and all, and we'd be delighted to see anything you can come up with. Sometimes it can be kind of lonely but that's how it tends to go.

To answer your question, I seem to remember that you can go to those bonus levels at any time, but unless for some reason whatever creature you're transferring over is omitted from the save file itself (i.e. is treated as a global thing not tied to the current playthrough), this does seem like a mistake that should not have been let through verification. Maybe we'll wait a bit to see if someone has an explanation?

Another thing I'll say before I forget: there's no reason to think you have to do one segment per level as the old run may have done: in fact the rules state that we want you to use as many segments as is required to squeeze very close to optimal results out of the RNG and otherwise. Maybe you could force more minions of the right kinds to spawn with less trash coming through? You could blow the old run out the water that way, and it's a way to keep categories (SS and segmented) far separated, which is good for the viewers.

Anyway, post whatever questions here and I'll try to help with them.
Dear Keepers,

https://www.speedrun.com/dungeon_keeper
https://discord.gg/mFfT5aE (generic KeeperKlan disc)

Currently we are two people active, + some people dropping single level runs of DK and DK:DD levels.
The rules are probably more strict here, but we'd appreciate input from the old foxes of DK-speedrunning. My runner-mate Meekzie is currently struggling with getting the frame-rate to match the one of Zoonel. Really any input is welcome. I'll try to stay active here as well and will check from time to time Smiley

Really nice to have found this absolute treasure of DK running history!

/BNDR
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Hi, I was wondering if you guys could add a new category of KeeperFX or something for this game? Not many of us still use windows 98 and are able to run the original (which is what the WR on this site used). Also, because of the fact that the original DK was used in the speed run on this site it had to use low resolution mode which is not very pleasing to watch (an issue that has been since fixed in KeeperFX).
Generally speaking, it's not necessary to request a new category to be added before submitting to SDA. As long as the speedrun falls within the generic rules (https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Rules), it can just be submitted. If there is no previous speedrun on SDA in the submitted category, a new category will be created. There are of course certain games that might require some discussion about which categories make most sense or other clarifications (e.g. what constitues the ending point for a specific game).

I'm not familiar with Dungeon Keeper in particular, but I don't see any immediate issues. It's available on e.g. GoG as an official release that is compatible with modern hardware. If for some reason the GoG version is unsuitable for speedrunning, SDA also accepts speedruns played through dosbox. If you play on dosbox, it's however very much recommended to discuss the settings here in the forum first (use the existing game thread, if there is one, or create a new thread in the PC section). The settings can have an important impact on the performance of the game, so it's important to use settings that emulate the original game's behavior as closely as possible and to allow fair competition when comparing with others.
Edit history:
LotBlind: 2022-02-01 12:25:17 pm
Merged with the existing Dungeon Keeper thread.

https://support.gog.com/hc/en-us/articles/360007684713-Dungeon-Keeper-Gold-KeeperFX-Source-port-Essential-improvements-?product=gog

I'm copying that link here for future reference: since KeeperFX is being recommended by GoG as a compatibility tool, that's generally been good enough for us to accept source ports or unofficial patches in the past. However, if someone wants to run it for SDA, we'd like to know a bit more about it. Does it change the behaviour of the game in a speedrun-significant way? Also are you saying you can't run the game in DOSBox simply? I actually recently reinstalled my GOG copy and it seems to run okay in DOSBox and you can also increase the resolution with ALT-R.

Looks like someone's saying in this thread the KeeperFX version "includes all the downloadable patches that have been released later and they change some things for balancing purpose." Hmm... we normally tell people to run whatever patch version is the fastest EXCEPT when the fastest patch version has compatibility issues in which case a second version can exist parallel to it.

The ILs category or categories: I was curious if there had been any talk of these and it turns out someone created a full "transfer chart" to give an idea of which creatures could in theory be transferred to which levels. I think SDA would have no problem recognizing both with and without creature transfer (probably listed as NG and NG+ for conformity) for levels that allow the transfer.

Just in case someone didn't know about this, the game speed can be adjusted in-game by hitting CTRL-PLUS/MINUS. I doubt the speedrunners didn't know this but it's not documented in the manual and I couldn't find it anywhere online earlier, so the more places this is mentioned, the better. I'm not saying the speedruns should use it. Might skew the competition in favor of faster PCs, at least if using the fastest setting?

Anyway, we (and me personally, seeing as this game is an all-time favorite) would love to see another SDA run of this game but let's make sure we agree on the best rules to use to avoid unnecessary category bloating.

(BTW if someone active on Speedrun.com is reading this, the game rules listed there are a bit weird. What does "When playing KFX (any version), manipulating the following line in the fxdata/rules.cfg: PreserveClassicBugs = (insert any of the, in the file, above listed here)" mean? The last part in parentheses seems like there's a mistake in the English.)
Edit history:
12114: 2022-02-03 05:27:42 am
12114: 2022-02-03 05:27:16 am
12114: 2022-02-03 05:07:36 am
12114: 2022-02-03 05:06:00 am
12114: 2022-02-03 05:03:31 am
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Oops, didn't see your post LotBlind.
"Does it change the behaviour of the game in a speedrun-significant way?"

Yes, it actually is a handicap (as far as I know, as it stands, but then again, I've only speedrun the first 5 levels on KeeperFX) for speed running purposes though. For example, map 3 is not possible to beat in under 6 mins as you have to fight three waves, not two, and zoonel did it in just 4:55. It would be nice if the KeeperFX team could make a 'speed running' version of the game that won't be constantly changed and will be as close to the OG as possible. With all that being said, I think I'm finally close to making the original Dungeon Keeper work for myself (there's been a bit of progress), so I might not require FX personally, and play it exactly as zoonel did.

Oh yea the frame skip with CTRL +, me and zoonel originally kinda de facto/unofficially agreed that it was lame (both boring to speed run yourself like that and for others to watch), so we just avoided it. That could also be another category though.
KeeperFX is an open source remake, but FX stands for Fan eXpansion, and it contains fixes as well as just giving users the option to run it natively on windows. This includes fixes to maps, which like the poster above sometimes had script errors not spawning certain enemies that were supposed to spawn, which obviously would make it a handicap to speedrun. There's a few levels that would make it a bit faster on KeeperFX, as it allows you to not wait until a timer runs out but complete the objectives for the level to proceed, which saves considerable time.
KeeperFX would still play the original levels, and has 'classic bug mode' to enable some old bugs again, but this is not the default for users.

Finally, frameskip in KeeperFX is improved in that it does not simply go 'unlimited', but can be controlled. But still, increasing the speed by say, 500 times, will do serious things to completion times. Certainly on the levels that are on a timer, in conjunction with the 'computer assistant'. One could break every record now if frameskip where to be allowed by simply maxing frameskip and enabling the assistant to win in seconds.
We're with you guys that getting old games to run well (enough) is often a real chore, but on the other hand there's games out there with more than one source port, so without demo compatibility at least (which this game doesn't have), we've been hesitant to let the gamepages swell with each new one that comes along... EXCEPT where there's a strong suspicion that more than a few people will be high and dry without the unofficial patch or port, or if a storefront has adopted it. As I said, with this game, the fact they're telling you to try the FX port if you're experiencing trouble edges it closer to where we can lower our guards. However, there is the rule of not allowing beta or otherwise incomplete games unless it seems it's gonna be the last version ever released so waiting for the 1.0 or another stable universally well-performing release and sticking with it does indeed make sense, and just for the sake of not having obsoletions due to minor changes from version to version. At that point, I think SDA would be unlikely to stand in anyone's way of running that release with all of its changes. Probably should leave all the new changes in that are enabled by default then to make the runs as different as possible.

Frameskip: If someone reading this really wants to give this a go, bring it up again. I couldn't right now tell you what SDA's stance would be on this. I remember the TAS for Jetpack used the second-highest (fastest capped) speed, but then that was a TAS, whatever that means. I think I've also seen people speed up time in SimCity after doing everything they could to make it faster first.

BTW: Before any SDA submissions, do bring up what DOSBox settings you were thinking of using in case you don't think the GOG/Steam defaults are ideal. Like if you can make it run with the higher graphics settings but only not lag with a higher fixed cycles setting, that wouldn't compromise anyone's ability to compete with the low-res graphics if need be.
Edit history:
12114: 2022-02-07 02:25:57 pm
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Frame skip is lame and hard to verify on really easy levels like the original campaign, might make a video beating the first level in 10 seconds staring at a wall to illustrate that point (probably without you knowing or hearing me kill the lord of the land). Dosbox, I wouldn't mess with it either, DK is very sensitive to fps and cycle changes, easily gaining an advantage over the current run.

Anyway, question for mods, as it stands for the current category on here, i.e 20 segments, one per level, all by one person.... Are you allowed to change menu settings in between levels? For example, level 1 I start with straight bird down view type, and level 2 I start with diagnoal bird view. Or an easier example, level 1 I start with very low brightness, level 2 I start with very high brightness, but the settings were changed off recording screen. Is this allowed? I don't wanna put in a herculian effort beating the current run just to be rejected for something as retarded and trivial as this lol.
Haha... the automation really is enough to beat whole levels without doing anything? That's reminded me of this post I once started that desperately needs more entries... If you find the idea amusing enough, feel free to post such "fastest controller down" videos there (but maybe moving the camera to show what's happening is better).

Very good to ask about the menu stuff. My impression is most segmented runs are allowed to have menu changes in-between segments with only the missions themselves being timed but I've asked our timer to come here to confirm this.

About segmented runs in general, the rules page notes that you should "Use as many segments as is optimal to achieve the fastest final time. Also do not feel like you must use roughly the same number of segments as a run you are attempting to obsolete." This wasn't as emphasized as back when the last runner submitted his run but because we appreciate SS and segmented runs having as many differences as possible, using multiple segments per level is very much recommended wherever it allows you to implement further optimizations than is realistic in doing the level in one segment. In fact, we've had to reject runs in the past that could easily have been improved on by adding more segments. Not only do we want segmented runs to look different from SS, in this case ILs would also be another category someone could run, and thus another category that we want a plain segmented run to look different from.

Segmenting the non-trivial levels would allow for a lot of RNG manipulation and perfect execution for more imaginative tricks (like I dunno, using a high-level mage to boost a possessed creature to its destination faster with the wind spell, or making lots of heroes wander into the same trap to kill them more efficiently; or just using a separate segment to train creatures efficiently to make them reach slightly higher levels by the time the last timed fight starts; the sky's the limit).

Segmented runs really have fallen out of fashion lately so I'm very happy to see another runner planning one. No rule that the run has to be all done by the same runner if you can rope in someone else to help you. A lot of Source engine games like Half-Life have traditionally been the collective fruits of the labor of many runners, just so long as everyone has the same recording settings.

BTW: I'm still not sure why the lvl 10 imp was allowed to be transferred from a hidden realm without showing that in the run itself in the old run. Currently thinking that's just a mistake. I mean just because it's hidden/optional doesn't seem to change the fact it's a level and part of the playthrough.
Edit history:
12114: 2022-02-08 09:23:07 am
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
"Segmented runs really have fallen out of fashion lately so I'm very happy to see another runner planning one. No rule that the run has to be all done by the same runner if you can rope in someone else to help you. A lot of Source engine games like Half-Life have traditionally been the collective fruits of the labor of many runners, just so long as everyone has the same recording settings."

What do you mean? Who? Me? I'm planning to do it just like zoonel did, single segment for each level, it's honestly just the most fun. Besides, I'm not even sure how to multi-segment the same level.

I've been running into nothing but issues for the past few weeks, honestly it's been frustrating enough to get the game running and the old windows installed (had about 100 issues), but now I'm having issues with yua and encoding. Yua just straight up shuts down when I try to open my recorded fraps video... Am I forced to use Anri-chan at this point? What codecs should I get for it? CCCP is a broken link... Or can I just send nate the raw files?

P.S
Here's why frame skip is a bad idea:

Boring to watch, low skilled trash tier gameplay, hard to verify against cheating (you didn't see the knight die).
This is from our timer:

"8:11
based on the gamepage of Dungeon Keeper, the runner doesn't say anything except this is a timed level for 26:40 mins and then an extra second where you can finish your objective as fast as possible
8:11
and that he made it more "challenging" for him so i assume the level 10 imp is there to make it a challenge
8:12
but i would either classify it as NG+ or force timing the secret level, but seeing as it is a set-time level i would say NG+"

If level 17 really is on-rails, it could be the runner didn't think there was any harm done in transferring the extra imp in? He's pointing out we could call such a run "NG+" but I don't think that makes sense in the context of a segmented run, only ILs.

He also confirmed that only the levels themselves are timed. Thus you can do whatever you need to in the menus outside the levels themselves.

How to multi-segment: simply save the game in the middle of playing the level (the time taken to reach the save menu is timed and has to be shown), then restore that save file to proceed with the next segment. I'm not sure what the problem would be. You lose a time amount of time at the end of each segment, but the AI manipulation etc. has seemingly quite a lot of potential to save more time than that doesn't it? Maybe I'm wrong about that. Even something as simple as how quickly imps will claim some room is variable if you can't micro-manage them the whole time.

I just tried DOSBox native capture and by increasing the GOG default cycles count, I was able to get it to capture smoothly on my PC even with the high-res setting. The result is like this. It defaults to 70 fps but that can later be edited to be like 30. Looks like the cursor moves faster than 20 fps. That might have been a smart move from Bullfrog. Anyway, in case you didn't try this capture method yet, it's simple, just requires a codec. Here's the instructions.
Edit history:
12114: 2022-02-08 12:05:40 pm
12114: 2022-02-08 12:05:29 pm
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
The high level imp at level 17? You don't get that by default? I don't know, I skipped that level, it's irrelevant, the time is always going to be 26:41 for speed runners anyway if you don't screw up. You could literally transfer 10 horned reapers if you wanted to, it would make zero difference in terms of speed. That would be an unfortunate way to invalidate a run because of that, or move it to another category or whatever. Also, there is a secret level to transfer imps? I know there's some for a horny, vampire and a witch, didn't know there was one for an imp lol.

Regarding dosbox capture, I would like to avoid it for now and just record the game exactly how the current record on SDA has done it, if you don't mind. I know it's low res and whatever, but I'm hesitant to mess with cycles and whatnot, at least for now.

I'll be posting a quality video test shortly (if all goes well).
Edit history:
12114: 2022-02-08 12:20:37 pm
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Alright, there is an easy way to check whether you get a level 10 imp by default in level 17 or not, I just randomly searched a walkthrough video on youtube (it literally even said no creature transfter), and in fact you DO get a level 10 imp by default.

Proof:

So I don't know what you guys are talking about. At 1:25, an imp teleported to his treasure room, only level 10 imps have teleport.
The level 17 thing wasn't our mistake, it was based on maddog's comment above. Glad it was nothing after all.

Aside from posting the quality test in the tech support section, do post at least the first couple of levels here just in case anyone has any feedback on your gameplay.
Edit history:
12114: 2022-02-09 04:25:54 pm
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Sorry, I have a retarded yet crucial question. How is the time objectively calculated for the current SDA run? Did you guys just take his word for it since we can't actually see his post match stat screen where the time is shown? When I hover over my level 1 run it says 3:04, I believe when I hover over zoonels run its one sec more, does that mean my time is 3:03? Oh and my quality test is actually my level one run, check it out if you want, lotblind
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Actually this made me think of a couple more issues. We can't go by video length because that depends on when you start the fraps recording which can vary from person to person, run to run. The post match stat screen can't be verified since fraps doesn't capture it. At the same time, I believe the very initial part of every dungeon keeper level, when you're running into the heart as an imp, and when you don't have control, is not included in the post match stat screen (I have a feeling), so how then, do we objectively calculate the current SDA record? This makes very little sense to me right now. The only feasible solution is to somehow time it from when you are in bird view and gain control (so roughly on average, subtract one second from all of zoonels runs).