Dungeon Keeper

2007-10-20 11:31:51 pm

There is no victory without combat

Sounds like a nice plan to me. But one question: How do you intend to prevent your Horned Reaper from raping your Imps in the following level? He gets angry when he doesn't have a temple, and it isn't accessable so easy at that point...one possibility is to pick him up and digg up your Dungeon normally, just with a Reaper in the Hand all the time. This has the disadvantage that he gets really, really pissed. I mean so pissed, you can't get him to smile E*V*E*R again. Believe me, I know what I am talking about.
So, I think you calculated that and want to use him just in 1st Person Mode then, far away from your creatures, cause they would attack him on sight, cause their afraid of an angry Horny...and to be honest: Who isn't.

Or do you have another plan?

krael

2007-10-21 08:37:09 pm

Verified verifier and hangaround :)

Pour 500 gold over the reaper and hes calm for aout two minutes.

Also he seem to like battles, at least it seem to cheer him up.

Anyways, keeping him happy shouldnt be too much of an issue.

The layout of that map makes it quite easy to get to the transfer thingie.

The level where you get the scavenger room I completed in 10 minutes or so, the other keeper had already dug it out, so thats one cross on the list hopefully.

I guess you can just bridge over, posses and imp, take area to the items, use it so on.

krael

2007-10-21 08:39:39 pm

Verified verifier and hangaround :)

Quote:

Sounds like a nice plan to me. But one question: How do you intend to prevent your Horned Reaper from raping your Imps in the following level? He gets angry when he doesn't have a temple, and it isn't accessable so easy at that point...one possibility is to pick him up and digg up your Dungeon normally, just with a Reaper in the Hand all the time. This has the disadvantage that he gets really, really pissed. I mean so pissed, you can't get him to smile E*V*E*R again. Believe me, I know what I am talking about.
So, I think you calculated that and want to use him just in 1st Person Mode then, far away from your creatures, cause they would attack him on sight, cause their afraid of an angry Horny...and to be honest: Who isn't.

Or do you have another plan?

One plan could be to dig out wall, posses reaper and rape everything.

On a sidenote, he doesn't get very strong untill at least level 6 or 7 Smiley

- I found out as he got soloed by an AI sorcerer. My vampire could easily handle the sorcerer though.

[quote]Sounds like a nice plan to me. But one question: How do you intend to prevent your Horned Reaper from raping your Imps in the following level? He gets angry when he doesn't have a temple, and it isn't accessable so easy at that point...one possibility is to pick him up and digg up your Dungeon normally, just with a Reaper in the Hand all the time. This has the disadvantage that he gets really, really pissed. I mean so pissed, you can't get him to smile E*V*E*R again. Believe me, I know what I am talking about. 
So, I think you calculated that and want to use him just in 1st Person Mode then, far away from your creatures, cause they would attack him on sight, cause their afraid of an angry Horny...and to be honest: Who isn't.

Or do you have another plan?[/quote]

One plan could be to dig out wall, posses reaper and rape everything.

On a sidenote, he doesn't get very strong untill at least level 6 or 7 :) - I found out as he got soloed by an AI sorcerer. My vampire could easily handle the sorcerer though.

Enigma_Nova

2007-10-22 02:13:37 pm

Drop money on him and all is well.
Btw: It doesn't matter if he kills the imps in level 10.
Level 10 takes all of 4 minutes, tops - dig out 1 tile, slap/possess horned reaper, take him to enemy dungeon heart (snagging 2 dragons along the way).
Claim 2 other dragons.
Build 5*3 library, drop dragons, bridge to transfer creature, and game.

Raven75

Edit history:

Raven75: 2007-10-22 02:49:57 pm

2007-10-22 02:49:41 pm

It's-a me, Raven!

Computer Assistant? Eh? Where is it, what does it do? Never heard of it I'm affraid. <FRENCH> Call me ze noob, I do not care, eh! </FRENCH>

Still waiting for new segments; all previous are looking great!

NONOCE

2007-10-22 03:19:59 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

It's an icon near the minimap, it can build the dungeon for you.

krael

2007-10-22 05:43:58 pm

Verified verifier and hangaround :)

Quote:

Computer Assistant? Eh? Where is it, what does it do? Never heard of it I'm affraid. <FRENCH> Call me ze noob, I do not care, eh! </FRENCH>

Still waiting for new segments; all previous are looking great!

ITs the C button. You can set it to defensive and offensive. Smiley

Pretty good when youre busy doing something else.

krael

2007-10-22 08:52:58 pm

Verified verifier and hangaround :)

Maps from 10+ are going to be interesting.

One of the maps should proove to be quite easily passable. All you gotta do is dig a little, then walk across lava, kill 20 heroes.
Then you cna profit!

Btw, I did this still with my level 10 vampire.

Kabuto

Edit history:

Kabuto: 2007-10-22 11:02:14 pm

2007-10-22 10:54:35 pm

Got 3:37 on Level 1 now, could have been 3:35 if I haven't made a few mistakes.

To understand how I got that here's the level script, in a human-readable form.

* Treasure room >= 9 and gold mined >= 9000 -> Lair becomes available (9000 is exactly the amount of gold stored in the 9 pieces of gold available in this level. Mining means just digging, no need to collect it or to put it into a treasure chamber)
* Lair >= 9 and two creatures attracted -> Garden becomes available
* Garden >= 9 -> "Tunneller timer" starts
* Have 7 creatures and "Tunneller timer" >= 800 -> Add tunnellers.
* Tunnelers dead -> start "hero timer".
* Still have 7 creatures and "hero timer" >= 500 -> Add hero
* Hero dead -> Level won

Applying that to Enigma_Novas solution gives the following hints:

* When game starts, slap an imp, possess it, start digging to portal and claim it (in my case the imp started to claim the portal right after de-possessing. If it doesn't you should quickly pick it and throw it right before the portal). It's important that you get the portal as early as possible.
* Dig gold, build treasure and garden after that, you'll have enough time now. Be quick but don't hurry too much. You can place all 9 garden pieces wherever you want. The only thing that matters is having a total of 9 garden slabs in your entire dungeon.
* Use a clock to time when the tunnellers appear (a fixed time span starting from when you've got your 6th creature). Slap them and throw them into the hero room right before the tunnellers appear. (I hope that's faster than throwing them when the tunnellers have alerady appeared).
* Same for the hero. Why do you drop all creatures here? AFAIK only 4 creatures can attack at once (+ one you possess).

Got 3:37 on Level 1 now, could have been 3:35 if I haven't made a few mistakes.

To understand how I got that here's the level script, in a human-readable form.

* Treasure room >= 9 and gold mined >= 9000 -> Lair becomes available (9000 is exactly the amount of gold stored in the 9 pieces of gold available in this level. Mining means just digging, no need to collect it or to put it into a treasure chamber)
* Lair >= 9 and two creatures attracted -> Garden becomes available
* Garden >= 9 -> "Tunneller timer" starts
* Have 7 creatures and "Tunneller timer" >= 800 -> Add tunnellers.
* Tunnelers dead -> start "hero timer".
* Still have 7 creatures and "hero timer" >= 500 -> Add hero
* Hero dead -> Level won

Applying that to Enigma_Novas solution gives the following hints:

* When game starts, slap an imp, possess it, start digging to portal and claim it (in my case the imp started to claim the portal right after de-possessing. If it doesn't you should quickly pick it and throw it right before the portal). It's important that you get the portal as early as possible.
* Dig gold, build treasure and garden after that, you'll have enough time now. Be quick but don't hurry too much. You can place all 9 garden pieces wherever you want. The only thing that matters is having a total of 9 garden slabs in your entire dungeon.
* Use a clock to time when the tunnellers appear (a fixed time span starting from when you've got your 6th creature). Slap them and throw them into the hero room right before the tunnellers appear. (I hope that's faster than throwing them when the tunnellers have alerady appeared).
* Same for the hero. Why do you drop all creatures here? AFAIK only 4 creatures can attack at once (+ one you possess).

qaylIS

2007-10-23 05:32:07 am

There is no victory without combat

Quote:

Computer Assistant? Eh? Where is it, what does it do? Never heard of it I'm affraid.

That isn't bad dude, its one of the most unpopular and unused functions of the game. The computer aid does some jobs for you, like building rooms, slapping creatures, send them to training or mining and such things. The problem is, that most players didn't like to get interfered in their plans, and the Dungeon Keeper AI is not known for...smartness.
Most players also doesn't like it, cause they used the computer aid wrong, for example when they had already build their dungeon and just tried them out, so that some rooms are build which doesn't work with the current design of the players dungeon. But this isn't for what they are programmed for, they should help when you sit on the hot coals, like you get attacked and don't have time to build your rooms, or in the opposite, you need to concentrate on your dungeon-design and you leave it to the AI-Aid to defend your precious dungeon-heart against the infidals.
Another possibility is, that directly at the beginning you activate the dungeon builder - Aid to build up your dungeon faster. You just need to keep track of the rooms that have been build, and you can keep switched it on. Generarely the AI-Aid builds the rooms a bit too little in my opinion, and I have most time enough control over my dungeon to do all at once.
For more information you should look in the manual (I could quote from it, but I have only the german one; and not really the time to translate it...) or search at www.gamefaqs.com .

Hope I could bring some light into this, even for the guys who were not bold enough to ask like Raven75 (known as the french-dude nowafter...just kidding ;D).

Oh, and 'afraid' is written with just one 'f', n00b. 8)

[quote]Computer Assistant? Eh? Where is it, what does it do? Never heard of it I'm affraid.[/quote]
That isn't bad dude, its one of the most unpopular and unused functions of the game. The computer aid does some jobs for you, like building rooms, slapping creatures, send them to training or mining and such things. The problem is, that most players didn't like to get interfered in their plans, and the Dungeon Keeper AI is not known for...smartness. 
Most players also doesn't like it, cause they used the computer aid wrong, for example when they had already build their dungeon and just tried them out, so that some rooms are build which doesn't work with the current design of the players dungeon. But this isn't for what they are programmed for, they should help when you sit on the hot coals, like you get attacked and don't have time to build your rooms, or in the opposite, you need to concentrate on your dungeon-design and you leave it to the AI-Aid to defend your precious dungeon-heart against the infidals.
Another possibility is, that directly at the beginning you activate the dungeon builder - Aid to build up your dungeon faster. You just need to keep track of the rooms that have been build, and you can keep switched it on. Generarely the AI-Aid builds the rooms a bit too little in my opinion, and I have most time enough control over my dungeon to do all at once.
For more information you should look in the manual (I could quote from it, but I have only the german one; and not really the time to translate it...) or search at www.gamefaqs.com .

Hope I could bring some light into this, even for the guys who were not bold enough to ask like Raven75 (known as the french-dude nowafter...just kidding ;D).

Oh, and 'afraid' is written with just one 'f', n00b.  8)

Raven75

Edit history:

Raven75: 2007-10-23 09:17:55 pm

2007-10-23 02:02:10 pm

It's-a me, Raven!

<SARCASM>
smartness = intelligence
Most players also doesn't like it, cause... = Also, most players don't like it because...
infidals = infidels
There's a few more mistakes, but I don't think I need to go into detail here, right? French-dude and German-dude, tied 1-1! Wink

I'm not bold enough to ask anything; I'm just ignorant and without shame.
</SARCASM>
Thank for the info; really appreciate it, most helpful. Gotta try that shizzle out soon. Keep having trouble with stage 12 - I'm just too slow I guess.

Oh, and I'm Belgian, not French. n00b. Cheesy

So, Enigma, been a while since you've uploaded anything - I thought you were done with level 8?

EDIT Woo friggin HOO!!! Finished stages 12 and 13. Gotta hate not being able to give commands to your units, like most RTS's... Then again, that'd be cakewalk.

qaylIS

2007-10-23 09:50:49 pm

There is no victory without combat

Oh Belgium, good to know...one day I have to visit Brussels, just for the EU-Institutions and the WTO...but were gettin' outta topic here... .

Just what I wanted to add about the AI-Help: You have to experiment a lot with them, especially how they work with your own strategy. I mean, REALLY a lot. I tried them out many hours, till I found out that they are not usable for a big ego like mine Grin

. So I never could use them...although, currently I play Dungeon Keeper 2 (at least when I have time; I am a very busy man...), and I could need them there. But this feature didn't survive the first game. I'm kinda pissed about it.
Though, people told me that the AI help is very useful in multiplayer matches, if you have trained them in skirmish matches (there is a possibility to play against AI in Multiplayer arenas), but also they said that the multiplayer is kinda crappy on the technical side...lags and inconsistencies (uhh, this one's spelled wrong i would bet...but nevermind, too lazy to look it up) and such things.

So, the german dude is looking forward to the next map, so Enigma: Hurry up! Smiley

And Belgia dude: grats! Tongue

Oh Belgium, good to know...one day I have to visit Brussels, just for the EU-Institutions and the WTO...but were gettin' outta topic here... .

Just what I wanted to add about the AI-Help: You have to experiment a lot with them, especially how they work with your own strategy. I mean, REALLY a lot. I tried them out many hours, till I found out that they are not usable for a big ego like mine  ;D . So I never could use them...although, currently I play Dungeon Keeper 2 (at least when I have time; I am a very busy man...), and I could need them there. But this feature didn't survive the first game. I'm kinda pissed about it.
Though, people told me that the AI help is very useful in multiplayer matches, if you have trained them in skirmish matches (there is a possibility to play against AI in Multiplayer arenas), but also they said that the multiplayer is kinda crappy on the technical side...lags and inconsistencies (uhh, this one's spelled wrong i would bet...but nevermind, too lazy to look it up) and such things.

So, the german dude is looking forward to the next map, so Enigma: Hurry up!  :)

And Belgia dude: grats! :P

Raven75

2007-10-24 07:06:12 pm

It's-a me, Raven!

Just beat level 14. Pretty easy, if you dig fast, wall off, and get loads and loads of Misstresses to lvl10 - you've got gems, the other's dont; once their initial wave of troops has been slain, he'll be out of cash, and you can basically send in imps to finish the job. Also noticed that it's not necesary to beat the two enemy keepers; just the Lord of the Land on the other side.
I have absolutely no idea how anyone is ever going to speedrun levels 10+, except rushing with a lvl10 Horned Reaper... Enigma, good luck!

kalosz

2007-10-24 10:03:13 pm

Quote:

I have absolutely no idea how anyone is ever going to speedrun levels 10+, except rushing with a lvl10 Horned Reaper... Enigma, good luck!

Yeah man, good luck ! Cheesy

:monkey: :thinksmoke:

krael

2007-10-25 04:56:16 pm

Verified verifier and hangaround :)

Quote:

Just beat level 14. Pretty easy, if you dig fast, wall off, and get loads and loads of Misstresses to lvl10 - you've got gems, the other's dont; once their initial wave of troops has been slain, he'll be out of cash, and you can basically send in imps to finish the job. Also noticed that it's not necesary to beat the two enemy keepers; just the Lord of the Land on the other side.
I have absolutely no idea how anyone is ever going to speedrun levels 10+, except rushing with a lvl10 Horned Reaper... Enigma, good luck!

Level10:

Posses your transferred creature (Reaper, mistress or vampire) run down to enemy heart, kill it.

Easy, can be done in pretty much no time.

Raven75

2007-10-27 11:15:52 am

It's-a me, Raven!

I should probably note that I'm not much of a speedrunner myself, especially not in RPG or RTS games - I'm more of a power-player/hoarder type.

zoonel

2007-10-27 10:52:14 pm

Go play spacechem !

Thanks this topic i've started playing dk1 again :rocker:

I dont know how you plan your runs, but there is an "official" editor where you can see map layout with monsters etc...
Also the MAPXXXXXXX.txt contains the script for the level, so you know the victory conditions, triggers, ...

About the level game time, the stats screen show in seconds the elapsed time from level start to level victory. If you stay longer the time is not counted but if you pause the game (before winning the map) the time is added!
The game is based on GAME_TURNs, wich is the principal game loop. The numbers of turns in 1 sec depends on the cpu's speed, however it is limited to prevent excessive game speed. In map scripts, timers and everything time related (messages, creature spawns, ...) is based on game turns.
I've read on a french board that 1 sec = 20 turns, and i've verified this on my laptop (2 Years old + windows xp).
The level 7 scripts shows this :

SET_TIMER(PLAYER_GOOD,TIMER5)

IF(PLAYER_GOOD,TIMER5>=20000)
SET_FLAG(PLAYER_GOOD,FLAG0,1)
IF(PLAYER_GOOD,TOTAL_CREATURES==0)
ADD_PARTY_TO_LEVEL(PLAYER_GOOD,KNIGHT,-2,1)

On a 20 turns = 1 sec basis, the knight should appear after 16min40sec. Your time is close to 21 min, so either you have an old computer, a modified script, or your recording program slows the game to a 16 game turn per second. Huh?

Anyway i enjoy the runs and much more since i've started playing the game again (actually at lvl 14 ^^)

For lvl 9 i've no real plan to help you but the winning condition is "only" to kill the 4 wizards and the knight => you dont have to kill the other heroes. To reach the wizards without being noticed you could use the invisibility spell on an imp to steal the libraries, i dont know if invisibility can be quickly researched though.

Thanks this topic i've started playing dk1 again  :rocker:

I dont know how you plan your runs, but there is an "official" editor where you can see map layout with monsters etc...
Also the MAPXXXXXXX.txt contains the script for the level, so you know the  victory conditions, triggers, ...

About the level game time, the stats screen show in seconds the elapsed time from level start to level victory. If you stay longer the time is not counted but if you pause the game (before winning the map) the time is added!
The game is based on GAME_TURNs, wich is the principal game loop. The numbers of turns in 1 sec depends on the cpu's speed, however it is limited to prevent excessive game speed. In map scripts, timers and everything time related (messages, creature spawns, ...) is based on game turns.
I've read on a french board that 1 sec = 20 turns, and i've verified this on my laptop (2 Years old + windows xp).
The level 7 scripts shows this :

SET_TIMER(PLAYER_GOOD,TIMER5)

[color=Red]IF(PLAYER_GOOD,TIMER5>=20000)[/color]
SET_FLAG(PLAYER_GOOD,FLAG0,1)
      IF(PLAYER_GOOD,TOTAL_CREATURES==0)
      ADD_PARTY_TO_LEVEL(PLAYER_GOOD,KNIGHT,-2,1)

On a 20 turns = 1 sec basis, the knight should appear after  16min40sec. Your time is close to 21 min, so either you have an old computer, a modified script, or your recording program slows the game to a 16 game turn per second. ???

Anyway i enjoy the runs and much more since i've started playing the game again (actually at lvl 14 ^^)

For lvl 9 i've no real plan to help you but the winning condition is "only" to kill the 4 wizards and the knight => you dont have to kill the other heroes. To reach the wizards without being noticed you could use the invisibility spell on an imp to steal the libraries, i dont know if invisibility can be quickly researched though.

krael

2007-10-30 10:22:31 pm

Verified verifier and hangaround :)

It actually can.

You get a neutral temple on that level, and I believe that sacrificing two flies maxes your current research.

qaylIS

2007-10-31 11:58:15 pm

There is no victory without combat

Quote:

It actually can.

You get a neutral temple on that level, and I believe that sacrificing two flies maxes your current research.

Oh yeah, youre right. Though I never managed to try this actually, cause I had never a temple and 2 flies at once... . But worth a try.

krael

2007-11-01 10:33:01 am

Verified verifier and hangaround :)

Quote:

Oh yeah, youre right. Though I never managed to try this actually, cause I had never a temple and 2 flies at once... . But worth a try.

That is likely because you start building bigger rooms when you get to levels, where you get the temple Smiley

zoonel

2007-11-03 05:17:22 pm

Go play spacechem !

A very quick, but not so legal, way to finish level 9 is to put defensive computer assistant and speed the game to 8x with ctrl + Numpad_plus then lower the speed to normal (or not doesnt matter) then change defensive assistant to offensive, destroy the doors with a creature and watch the massacre ^^
The fact is that the game timer is not afected by the game speed, and at max speed with assistant you claim the map and get high levels minions in no time :p

Raven75

2007-11-06 06:08:12 pm

It's-a me, Raven!

Please don't tell me this run died on us... Cry

zoonel

2007-11-25 10:02:25 pm

Go play spacechem !

Quote:

Please don't tell me this run died on us... Cry

I hope not Cry

I've finished the DK campain and the unofficial Ancient Keeper campain which is very good and hard ^^

I also rewatched the runs, and i've some remarks:

- on lvl1, you loose 2 flies during the first fight and must wait again to have 7 creatures. You waited 800 games turns instead of 500. I dont remember exactly but i did the first lvl in 202 or 209 sec (vs 217)

- on lvl 2 you can trigger an action point near the hero's portal to trigger their coming before completing a 9 tiles training room. Once the training room reach 9 in size, a timer starts and once you get 2 dragon spawn, you must wait the timer to reach 4000 before the first wave of heroes.

Concerning game turns, you seems to have 16 game turns per sec, at least its true for level 2,4 and 7 .
But there is hope, level 1 and 3 seems to be played with 20 game turns / sec
I dont know what changed when you played 1 and 3 but thats the optimal conditions you should play on!

[quote]Please don't tell me this run died on us... :'([/quote]

I hope not  :'(

I've finished the DK campain and the unofficial Ancient Keeper campain which is very good and hard ^^

I also rewatched the runs, and i've some remarks:

- on lvl1, you loose 2 flies during the first fight and must wait again to have 7 creatures. You waited 800 games turns instead of 500. I dont remember exactly but i did the first lvl in 202 or 209 sec (vs 217)

- on lvl 2 you can trigger an action point near the hero's portal to trigger their coming before completing a 9 tiles training room. Once the training room reach 9 in size, a timer starts and once you get 2 dragon spawn, you must wait the timer to reach 4000 before the first wave of heroes.

Concerning game turns, you seems to have 16 game turns per sec, at least its true for level 2,4 and 7 .
But there is hope, level 1 and 3 seems to be played with 20 game turns /  sec
I dont know what changed when you played 1 and 3 but thats the optimal conditions you should play on!

Wulfenlord

2007-12-22 12:53:36 pm

I h8 YaBB 1G - SP1!

Progress?

12114

Edit history:

12114: 2008-06-08 11:48:27 am

2008-06-08 11:30:56 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

i got bored of stupid easy lvls so i went to blaze end (lvl 18) and did it in 30 min 32 sec...(timed with the watch and NOT the ingame timer), hint: i did a bonus lvl before to get a vampire into the lvl 18. i dont wanna post it just yet (i will later) so people dont copy my techniques since i wanna see what time other people got (to see if my time is any good). the run was unsegmented (meaning i started lvl 18, didnt save or load and got to the part where it says you have conquered this realm).