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rekenner
2010-02-25 05:18:15 pm
I honestly think a perfect Poker set of doubleups, while sanity killing, would be far fastest.
ShinerCCC
2010-02-25 06:26:08 pm
Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.
Poker is probably fastest. Monster arena involves sitting through combat, and the payouts are probably lower.

Didn't someone figure out the odds on poker...or was that some other game?

Either way, if you're doing a segmented run just go win a big series of those, then save, then do another segment of it if necessary. I wouldn't reject the run if it has to, say, get 15,000 coins 2 or 3 times instead of 100,000 once =P

I don't have any savestates for this game handy, I'll look some up later when I have time so I can help plan this run.
rekenner
2010-02-25 06:29:49 pm
I don't think I have any save states either. Last time I went through, it was with an old, old emulator. So, it doesn't work on modern XP. I have spring break up, soon, which ... I might do a run, then. I... might, uh, skip Taloon for my sanity. God, I don't want to think about doing Ch. 3.
chessjerk
2010-03-03 09:36:08 pm
Been doing some testing, here's a modified run through Chapters 1 and 2:

Chapter 1

Segment 1

Leave via bottom of town
Go to cave
Get 40 gold in cave
Walk to Izmit, buy Wooden Hat
Walk around outside, go to Izmit at night
Talk to Alex
Go out, suicide
Respawn at Burland
Talk to Flora
Walk to Izmit
Take Flora to Alex, save

Segment 2

Walk to hidden playground
Go down, down, down to 2nd floor
Go right, get Healie
Get 600 gold, Flying Shoes
Leave, get Medical Herb, Agility Seed on way out
Sell Copper Sword, Leather Armor, Agility Seed, buy Half Plate Armor @ Izmit, save

Segment 3

Use Flying Shoes
Get Wings on third floor
Get Scale Shield on the second floor
Get Sword of Malice on bottom floor
Heal up, face boss
Attack Saro’s Shadow until dead, then attack Eye (probably lose if Healie dies quickly)
Go outside, use Shoes, jump off, walk to Izmit
Use Wings, return to Burland

End of Chapter 1

NOTES:
-I buy the Wooden Hat to help survive the cave at level 2/3. Also, you can't even buy Wings in Chapter 1, so I have nothing else to spend my gold on, and I lose half after suiciding anyway.
-When facing Saro's Shadow, I've had success going after Saro's Shadow first, then kill the Eyeball afterwards. The reason is I normally cannot kill the Eyeball in two hits at level 6, which causes it to change expression, go berserk with critical hits, and quickly kill Healie. If I wait until after the shadow is dead, then it doesn't matter if Healie dies. The drawback, obviously, is having to sit through eight turns of the Eyeball's actions.

Chapter 2

Segment 4

Talk to Brey, left soldier @ front gate, Cristo on right
Find Fairy Water and Feather Hat in castle (both second drawer)
Go outside, fight battles, rest when Brey out of MP
Walk to Surene, buy Thorn Whip for Alena when 200 gold
Walk to Tempe, get to level 4
Rest @ Tempe, talk to mayor (right house)
Fight boss (Alena/Brey take out hounds, Cristo uses Upper/Heal), get nuts
Rest at inn, buy 3 Wings, find more nuts at monster location (need 120 gold)
Walk to Frenor, watch event at inn, go back and save

Segment 5

Go to cave, get Golden Bracelet (run, pass all treasure)
Suicide, revive (costs 60 gold), save

Segment 6

Walk to Bazaar, talk to the soldier
Walk to Frenor, get Thief Key @ night, save

Segment 7

Wings to Bazaar
Go to tower, get Birdsong Nectar (get 1200 gold treasure, pass other treasure)
Wings to Santeem, give nectar to King
Wings to Bazaar, rest
Walk to shrine
Walk to Endor
Talk to King
Go to armor shop, sell both nuts and silk robe, buy Chain Mail for Alena, don’t equip yet
Save

Segment 8

Kill a Metal Slime, save

Segment 9

Kill a Metal Slime, save

Segment 10

Kill a Metal Slime, save

Segment 11

Kill a Metal Slime
Rest at inn, save (level 12)

Segment 12

Go to tournament, sell Thorn Whip (and Cristo's Wayferer’s Clothes if needed), buy Iron Claw and 5 herbs, reequip Alena
Win tournament (need a critical against Sampson)
Leave Endor
Return to Santeem, go to second floor, take one step, return to Santeem

End of Chapter 2

NOTES:
-I have continued to try beating the Tempe boss battle at level 3 and haven't yet succeeded, everyone is just too weak. Level 4 is no problem.
-To win the tournament at level 11, I need multiple well-timed criticals (preferably first-turn criticals against both Roric and Sampson). At level 12, only the critical against Sampson is required, although beating Linguar can be a pain if your luck runs out.

Chapter 3...meh. I'm trying to get the Silver Statuette with Strom, Laurent, and a level one unequipped Taloon, but Laurent is a god damn moron. Sad
ShinerCCC
2010-03-04 01:35:59 am
Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.
You plan to skip the Iron Safe? There's a Chain Sickle in that cave early on if you want a decent weapon for free.
scaryice
2010-03-04 05:21:02 am
Quote from ShinerCCC:
No way man, DW4 is probably the most loved of the whole series.


I thought 3 and 5 were the most loved (in Japan anyway)? Speaking of DQ5, I did some planning on that last year. I really should get back into it, but the beginning is such a killer part. If anyone here's knowledgeable about that game, let me know.
ShinerCCC
ShinerCCC
Edit history:
ShinerCCC: 2010-03-05 12:47:25 am
2010-03-04 10:55:39 am
Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.
I decided to do some testing/timing for ya. If you don't beat these times I might reject the run if I verify it =P

Segment 1: 9 minutes
I fought every battle I got into, except I ran from a Healer, I realized after 1 turn it would be pointless. After buying the Wooden Hat I got into a lengthy 3x Diverat battle, I should have just ran from that too. I un-equipped my armour and two Babbles helped me suicide very quickly but when I came back to life I realized I should have bought some Herbs before dying, I wasted about 16 gold.

oops, I screwed up segment 2, you're supposed to actually kill things! Came back with only 680 gold in hand...

Segment 2: 13 minutes?
Um...I screwed up again...sold all my stuff and was 30 gold short, so I grinded out a few more encounters with frameskip on, then when I got back it was night time...
Anyway, small tip, go left for the Flying Shoes before going right for 600 gold, you'll skip the "Not that way..." message. And the 2 Herbs at the start really helped too.

Segment 3:
Lost to Saro's Shadow on my first attempt, thankfully it wasn't accurate because I had to stop to check a map, and made a few wrong turns, used frameskip to compensate, etc~
I ran from a bunch of stuff, some extra Medical Herbs for the real thing would go a long way for Saro's Shadow too.
the next attempts sucked...
Healie died after so many encounters, FOUR HUNDRED ENCOUNTERS, turns out the healing square in the basement can't revive him
next attempt: Healie got nailed by an IceBolt and died
next attempt: WOW! Got a great run, time was about 11 minutes. After I killed two Bantams to quickly reach Level 6, I did another fight with Pixie+Lilypa because Healie was at 19 HP, I was hoping he would heal himself but he didn't. I still won handily in 2 or 3 turns though. Before that, on the way down, Healie got double IceBolted, then I awkwardly ran away from two powerless Ozwargs for 3 or 4 turns. The Medical Herb got used on Healie (5 HP left) after that. Saro's Shadow went great, the Eyeball split his attacks. I agree, kill Saro's Shadow first, he's a much bigger threat, the Eyeball doesn't do much before he gets angry.

Segment 4: ~25 minutes
I never knew who to talk to to escape the castle, now I know! Yay!
This one had both good and bad parts. Had a lot of characters dying when I was around level 3, but everyone hit level 4 right on time before Tempe and the boss went without a hitch. The last turn was hilarious, after killing Rabidhound-B Alena got a terrific blow and Brey's Icebolt connected (the other one was resisted...wonder what the chances are), Chameleon Humanoid took nearly 50 damage that turn. In fact I think that was the only time I attacked him.
You never mentioned what to do with the Fairy Water and Feather Hat, so I sold the Fairy Water and equipped the Feather Hat on Alena. IIRC that helmet never gets replaced this whole chapter, (only at the very end for an Iron Mask maybe??) Selling it for 210 at the start is tempting but you can't buy a Boomerang in Tempe until the boss is already dead. I guess you could start with a Thorn Whip-Copper Sword combo...or you could buy random bits of armour for Brey...
I went down the stairs in the inn at Frenor and watched the trio escape through the back, hopefully that works for saving. I have 278 gold before doing any shopping.
This chapter should prove interesting, there's no plans to buy anything, it's all focused on leveling Alena...
[EDIT: oh yeah, Rabidhounds can drop Wings, so if you want to turbo-optimize this segment, get as many as you can that way, I got two in this way but I had to use one to quickly get home and heal]

That's all I'm going to do for now. Going straight from Dragon Warrior 1 to 4 feels euphoric, 4 is sooooo much better *_*

For the record, I have a cart of this but the battery was dead. After my dad and I replaced it the new one died very quickly too, so if a single-segment route is devised I will bravely try it out!

edit: ARRRRRRGH the emulator screwed up my SRAM save and all that progress is lost! Good thing I know how to speedrun it all again, this time on frameskip...and I'll make savestates for each segment too, then I can post them here!
ShinerCCC
ShinerCCC
Edit history:
ShinerCCC: 2010-04-02 04:50:28 pm
2010-03-05 01:23:50 am
Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.
Okay, it didn't take long at all to get back to where I was...

Redid Segment 4 on frameskip just to test a different setup, I'd say it actually works better, let me time it...

19 minutes...sort of!
Segment 4 as follows:
Sold Feather Hat, Fairy Water, and Cristo's Club, bought a Thorn Whip for Alena and a Copper Sword for Cristo. Alena still has the most defense without the Feather Hat. The Copper Sword sometimes lets Cristo one-shot the weaker enemies like Red Slimes and Kaskos Hoppers, giving faster turnover on battles. Also, I believe only Cristo needs to be level 4 for the boss fight, it's okay if Alena and Brey are level 3 as reaching level 4 doesn't add anything essential for them.
- Later on, bought a Leather Shield and Leather Hat for Brey. The hat can be cannibalized for Alena later.
- Try to save up 280 (+82 from Silk Robe, -12 for inn in Frenor) for Chain Mail in segment 5. Alena's going to be running away a lot in later segments (I think?? you didn't say again)
Well, on the way to the next town I kind of screwed up...took forever to run away from 5 Carnivore Plants, Alena died, then 4 more attacked me a few steps from Frenor and I got wiped. LOL! I would have been 1 gold short of the Chain Mail anyway. I only bought a Leather Hat for Brey, good thing since I forgot about the 75 cost of the 3x Wings. I think I should have fought all those plants instead, even though I have no mass damage spells...
Still, looks like a 5 minute improvement. Oh yeah, I had a super awesome clutch moment on the boss. One step from Tempe, a Prank Gopher + Giant Worm left me a Medical Herb. Later, when it was down to just the Chameleon, Cristo had 5 HP left. I had him Parry while Alena used the Herb on him, Cristo got attacked...for 3! HAHAHAHAHAHA TAKE THAT YOU STUPID BOSS
Just to clarify, my strategy for the boss is to always cast Upper on Brey first, because he's essential for taking down the Rabidhounds without incident. Alena + Icebolt is always needed, especially since the boss likes to cast Heal. Sap helps on the boss himself too. Then Cristo or Alena is next, depends on who has fewer HP, usually Cristo.
I just fought the boss one more time and it turns out his attacks can put people to sleep, Giant Bantam style. Did NOT know that o_O

I noticed you buy Chain Mail way later but you can easily afford it in Segment 5 in Frenor when you're about to waste a bunch of your cash after suicide anyway. I'm going to continue making these savestates with the "sell Feather Hat" route in mind.

Anyway, on with the other segments, although this segment 5 startup is a little off: Cristo still has a Club, Brey has Wayfarer's Clothes, a Leather Shield and a Leather Hat. I have 236 gold, I fought 5x Carnivorous Plants on this savestate remake and won 90 gold, then had to spend 60 of it reviving Cristo and Brey when they died while I was running from 3x Brahmird and a Blazeghost.

Segment 5: ~13 minutes? Nothing in here made sense.
I noticed the Chain Mail adds 8 defense over the Silk Robe, the Feather Hat is +6 just by itself, so there's definitely profit in selling it...
It looks like running away in this game is hard to get away with, while any fight is pretty easy to win. Looks like it's better to just fight out any encounter even if it looks grizzly.
I'm selling Brey's Wayfarer's Clothes to make enough money for Alena's Chain Mail. Seems to be a worthy tradeoff.
Sheesh, this is tough...I accidentally grabbed the Magic Potion when I finally got it though, but I never talked to the "shaman" in Frenor so I woke up in Surene LOL. So I sold the Magic Potion for an amazing 22 gold XD and winged it back to Frenor. I only woke up with 34 gold though, so I don't know how you're waking up so rich. I was running from almost everything though. Plus Cristo at level 6 costs 40 to revive, not 30.

Segment 6: 7 minutes
This was a bad runthrough, I'm sure...well actually I had to take an extra few minutes to win a fight with Cristo and Alena so I could revive Brey. I think that was about 3 minutes. Brey also got poisoned right before I had to save so that tacked on another few seconds. I chose to dick around outside of Frenor rather than the Bazaar to wait for night to fall because it seemed safer. If I knew Snowstorm though, there could be a huge windfall of experience from groups of those sandworm things. Cristo having a Club instead of Copper Sword hasn't made much of a difference yet however, I think him and Alena are still sufficient to take down most Frenor-region things in one turn.

Segment 7: ~12 minutes
This could probably be faster...I had to buy one more Wing so I used frameskip to do that, then got lost and used frameskip to turn around, but then some other weird stuff happened. NO encounters on the 3rd floor of the tower after Brey died, very lucky. You can Wing off the top floor of this tower, I didn't know that. I got to Endor and still haven't revived Brey, and it's night time because I didn't rest. Because I already have Chain Mail, I'm not sure what to buy now that I'm here. Saw a Metal Slime on the way there, after it attacked for one turn it ran away, didn't score any hits on it. Saw two battles of 5x Armor Scorpion on the way, in the second one I cast Surround on them so I could run away in peace. Two of them still hit and nearly killed Cristo anyway but don't get me wrong, it was actually effective otherwise. So I basically added 1 minute to my time, this should probably be completed in 10 minutes.

That's all for now, I'm going to mess around and come up with my own variant of Segment 8. I also want to experiment with poker odds.

EDIT: LOL @ attachment
It looks like they only let you do double-or-nothing 10 times, but by that point I had already won 153600 coins with my starting 60...however it took a LOT of savestate abuse to get that. One hilarious outcome was getting a tie on a 2, then having an ace come up. I picked the King, that means I still lost XD

Attachment:
Dragon Warrior IV (U) [!]-0.png
ShinerCCC
ShinerCCC
Edit history:
ShinerCCC: 2010-03-05 05:42:50 am
2010-03-05 03:46:31 am
Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.
Quote from rekenner:
Though, I was thinking for my only major leveling trip, waiting for the Royal Crypt. There's so many Metal Babbles there, and you get there fairly quick, that I think I could make it there. Ideally, I'd never level, as one you get shield that reflect, you can kill Metal Babbles like no one's fucking business, as reflected magic damage gets reflected back as guaranteed damage. I mean, if I can hit Final Cave by mid-20s, I'm set.


Just tested this with a Metal Slime Blazing on Brey, it didn't work. Much like using Bounce against Baramos in DWIII, only worse. Maybe it works with Firebal though.

Another footnote: the armour dude in Bonmalmo sets his price randomly, keep talking to him until you see a fairly high price. Someone said 4000 for the Full Plate? The highest I saw was something in the low 2800s.

I'm just testing Chapter 3 by playing it on frameskip and things are pretty easy with Strom and Laurent. I grabbed the free Chain Sickle from the Iron Safe cave but maybe I should have done that after going to Bonmalmo because it was night time when I got there. But I got to do a lot of easy fighting on the way, Taloon gained levels no problem, and gained tons more in the Silver Cave. However people seem to have forgotten that the Silver Statuette only sells for 25000 and the shop costs 35000. I don't think there's any negotiation in that. I'm holding onto Broad Swords but I'm afraid I'll have to sell them to gain the 9000-some gold I still need. I think I'll try going on Iron Apron runs to Bonmalmo instead of doing all this fighting in the cave (where time doesn't pass and I extend the mercenary contract, heh), although it would be nice to have a hyper-leveled Taloon when he joins up in Chapter 5.

edit: Okay. The Sword of Malice is absolutely essential as a cash cow. I know what Game Genie code would give you one but that would be, well, cheating. No need to buy one early on, or make lousy commission pay off it, but it's the most expensive thing you can buy, so buy as many as you can for Neta's shop. I'm not sure if it's worth filling Taloon's inventory with them, it seems he rejoins after the Lighthouse thing, so early on in Chapter 5; you can sell each Sword for 2625 gold, but you can buy Swords of Malice in Mintos anyway if it's the Sword itself you want. The only thing Taloon would need to buy is an Iron Helmet for 1100. So at best he could provide a burst of cash, maybe even for later if suicide is required around the time he joins. Also note Taloon cannot use the Metal Babble Shield, but any leftover coins from Chapter 2 will be his for some strange reason.

Broad Swords seem to drop in combat frequently. I also picked up the spare Broad Sword and Half Plate lying in the Silver Cave. Assuming 6 of each are left, the raw cost of all that is 12000 + 7200, so nearly 20000. That's still a lot of Sword of Malice farming, and I suspect the last few I brought back weren't selling right away because I brought in too many of them. (whether it's simulated market saturation or just "lol game only sells 2 or 3 items at a time" I don't know) You're probably better off fighting enemies outside, hoping for drops, since the chapter ends as soon as the order is made.

Saying Yes to Neta after the cave is finished generates a shorter dialogue, pick that one.
chessjerk
2010-03-05 06:36:26 pm
Quote from ShinerCCC:
You never mentioned what to do with the Fairy Water and Feather Hat, so I sold the Fairy Water and equipped the Feather Hat on Alena. IIRC that helmet never gets replaced this whole chapter, (only at the very end for an Iron Mask maybe??) Selling it for 210 at the start is tempting but you can't buy a Boomerang in Tempe until the boss is already dead. I guess you could start with a Thorn Whip-Copper Sword combo...or you could buy random bits of armour for Brey...


I hold on to both, eventually selling the Fairy Water for gold. I figure I need all the defense I can get for the tournament, so I don't think selling the Feather Hat is a good idea. Perhaps I'm wrong. Did you try going through the tournament without it?

Quote from ShinerCCC:
Another footnote: the armour dude in Bonmalmo sets his price randomly, keep talking to him until you see a fairly high price. Someone said 4000 for the Full Plate? The highest I saw was something in the low 2800s.


It's rare, but you can get that high of a price. The TAS gets over 4200, I think, and I know I have seen that high myself.

Quote:
I'm just testing Chapter 3 by playing it on frameskip and things are pretty easy with Strom and Laurent. I grabbed the free Chain Sickle from the Iron Safe cave but maybe I should have done that after going to Bonmalmo because it was night time when I got there. But I got to do a lot of easy fighting on the way, Taloon gained levels no problem, and gained tons more in the Silver Cave. However people seem to have forgotten that the Silver Statuette only sells for 25000 and the shop costs 35000. I don't think there's any negotiation in that. I'm holding onto Broad Swords but I'm afraid I'll have to sell them to gain the 9000-some gold I still need. I think I'll try going on Iron Apron runs to Bonmalmo instead of doing all this fighting in the cave (where time doesn't pass and I extend the mercenary contract, heh), although it would be nice to have a hyper-leveled Taloon when he joins up in Chapter 5.


Yeah, getting the Chain Sickle is probably a good idea. If you can sell the Full Plate for 4000+, there's a big chunk of the gold you need for the shop. My current path has me getting everything in the cave except the Broad Sword (leaving it for the Hero in chapter 5). Doing that, I will probably only need one or two Broad Sword drops to get the money process started.

Iron Apron runs are probably way too slow. Going after Broad Sword drops is superior, IMO.

Quote:
edit: Okay. The Sword of Malice is absolutely essential as a cash cow. I know what Game Genie code would give you one but that would be, well, cheating. No need to buy one early on, or make lousy commission pay off it, but it's the most expensive thing you can buy, so buy as many as you can for Neta's shop. I'm not sure if it's worth filling Taloon's inventory with them, it seems he rejoins after the Lighthouse thing, so early on in Chapter 5; you can sell each Sword for 2625 gold, but you can buy Swords of Malice in Mintos anyway if it's the Sword itself you want. The only thing Taloon would need to buy is an Iron Helmet for 1100. So at best he could provide a burst of cash, maybe even for later if suicide is required around the time he joins. Also note Taloon cannot use the Metal Babble Shield, but any leftover coins from Chapter 2 will be his for some strange reason.

Broad Swords seem to drop in combat frequently. I also picked up the spare Broad Sword and Half Plate lying in the Silver Cave. Assuming 6 of each are left, the raw cost of all that is 12000 + 7200, so nearly 20000. That's still a lot of Sword of Malice farming, and I suspect the last few I brought back weren't selling right away because I brought in too many of them. (whether it's simulated market saturation or just "lol game only sells 2 or 3 items at a time" I don't know) You're probably better off fighting enemies outside, hoping for drops, since the chapter ends as soon as the order is made.


I didn't use Swords of Malice for the shop, I simply kept buying Abacus's of Virtue (the highest selling item at Endor) and taking them to Neta.

Once you get the shop going, there's no need for getting random drops anymore, it will definitely be slower. Neta sells your stuff pretty quickly in my experience, so just dumping all of your gold into items for her to sell creates money very quickly. After I have enough for the Broad Swords, Half Plates, and 6 Swords of Malice, I quickly finish off the chapter.
ShinerCCC
ShinerCCC
Edit history:
ShinerCCC: 2010-04-12 03:41:11 am
2010-04-02 06:23:38 pm
Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.
Finally came back to try some Chapter 4 stuff. But first:
Yes, I did try the tournament, but only once. I got the luck with criticals you were talking about on Sampson, and got through it easily. Linguar wasn't too bad. Went into the thing with 5 herbs and a Meteorite Armband equipped. I'm going to try it again.

...I keep losing to Roric! LOL?!

While half your Agility is added to your Defense Power, equipping the Meteorite Armband does not recalculate your defense. Given that Alena is already pretty fast, and Agility doesn't do anything else besides determine turn order, I think I will opt for the extra herb instead. But Cristo can carry it so he can donate it to someone in Chapter 5.

Hmm, Alena suddenly isn't the fastest without the Armband. Roric killed me before I could heal. So you're trading certainty of going first for the extra herb...but she has enough HP that the guesswork is still pretty easy.

Sampson does more damage than Alena when she doesn't have a hat equipped...taking 20-23 every turn isn't good when your max HP is 61. Oh right, I can borrow the Leather Hat from Brey, let's try that. Defense moved from 33 to 35 (would be 41 with the Feather Hat). ...This isn't good enough.

I checked the Bazaar, you can buy a Wooden Hat there and Alena can equip it. Strange that by trading that Feather Hat for power early on, I can never get it back...defense shoots up to 39! That's only 2 off from the Feather Hat, and for a meager 120 gold that can be spared after getting Birdsong Nectar. (Cristo needs one, too.)

Vivian ran out of MP this time. Hmm, you can probably just Parry and stall her out if you need to.

I beat Sampson without getting a critical, but it came down to the last hit and I had 9 HP left. His damage is only 15-18 or so now. Thankfully he dropped a herb so I started Linguar off with 39. After that I guessed wrong on every single attack, for probably 6 turns or so. *_*

Point is, the tournament is quite winnable, just takes some luck. And since this is a segmented run, we have all the luck in the world.

CHAPTER 4 RESEARCH, SO FAR
-----------------------------
SEGMENT 18 (or 17 if you didn't get Sword of Malice) (10 minutes)
- Grab Medical Herb in upper pot, head downstairs and grab Strength Seed from drawer. I found the 80 gold, it's to the left of the top left of the 4 middle pillars, the upper chair. In the opening cutscene, it's the woman behind the blue soldier. Guess she feels sorry for dancers. Oh, misguided feminists...
- Go to Kievs, grab Lifeforce Nuts from pot
- Grind for some money for a Feather Hat for Nara. Sell the Seed or Nuts to cut corners if you need to. Chain Sickle won't be any help soon, and the Feather Hat is the best helmet for either of the sisters. The extra defense seems to go farther than slightly higher damage for survival.
- Try to add Keeleon to Return list. Run from anything powerful.
- You might reach level 2 or 3 from this, which is nice just for extra HP and MP alone. Go straight to the cave, grab the Wing of Wyvern and find Orin, then suicide once you find him. This takes a lot of luck, but it's faster than walking all the way back to Monbaraba...I don't think any optimization can cut down on that much time. When you wake up after dying you can save in Monbaraba anyway. Put Orin in the front.

SEGMENT 19 (~18 minutes)
- Use the Wing of Wyvern to warp to Keeleon.
- Visit Haville and Aktemto to add them to your Return list. Grab the Mystic Acorns and Silver Tarot Cards in the Aktemto Mine, then walk out. The Acorns sell for an amazing 412. You'll likely reach level 7 or 8. Mara learns Outside at level 9. Return to Haville and save.

SEGMENT 20
- Return to Keeleon, walk to cave, grab Sphere of Silence. For this test run, I'll try going without the 240 gold and Lifeforce Nuts, and see if I can still afford good stuff for the next segment. Get Mara to reach level 9 (and gain enough intelligence) while in here, then cast Outside. Return to Haville and use the inn. Buy a Half Plate Armor for Nara at the very least.
- Return to Aktemto. Go into Aktemto mine and get Gunpowder Jar, cast Outside. Return to Haville and save.

SEGMENT 21
- Buy a spare Half Plate Armor for Nara. This will be given to the Hero in Chapter 5.
- omg Balzack. Chapter 4 over.
I suspect Balzack has regen so don't dawdle too much. If you want Mara to live, you'll have to get her to Parry unless Balzack gets dazzled.

According to guides, you're more likely to get into fights in forests and hills, just like in DW1.

I would also like to point out that if someone wants to make this run, they should get started RIGHT NOW. It takes insane amounts of luck to actually kill a Metal Slime in Chapter 2, and I should remind you have to kill at least 3 or 4 to get Alena to level 12. This also assumes we won't be getting any coins at the casino to float to the Hero, which you should so you can start with some Metal Babble Shields. You will restarting those late segments in Chapter 2 so much, just get started right now, we'll have the entire run planned out by the time you get those done.

EDIT: I have done the Chapter 4 segments and here's my experiences.
- I did grab the Lifeforce Nuts while grabbing the Sphere of Silence, sold them, I desperately needed the money. Aktemto mine is short so although fights give a lot of gold, you don't get into many.
- Poison Needle seems to go off fairly often, more than I remember it doing so in DW3. Mara's physical damage is completely inconsequential anyway. Think of how helpful this will be against Metal Slimes too.
- I checked the TAS, Lighthouse Bengal only has about 70 HP...the Flamers are the real threat, since Mara's magic is useless against them I bet the Poison Needle will be a lot better if the Hero and Hector don't smash them first
- Now. Silver Tarot Cards are quite fun to use, but Orin kills things before you can draw very many. More of them are beneficial, the only one that really screws you over is the Card of Perfection, it casts Defeat on your party and seems to have a fairly high chance of working. But I would deem collecting these essential because if you draw Card of the Stars, you get twice as much experience for killing Balzack. So instead of 500, you get 1000. The Necrodain is, as I thought, 99% impossible to kill, because your only possible circumstance for summoning it is against Balzack (because Orin would kill everything first, unless you killed him or kept putting him to sleep), and you also have to draw the Card of Evil to get to the last one which will seal Nara's spells, so no healing. You also have to get lucky and survive the Card of Perfection. When this Necrodain finally shows up, it deals 55 damage to anyone it hits, when he's not putting you to sleep, meanwhile Balzack is having his way with you if the Card of the Moon didn't dazzle him. So...forget about getting to the Card of the Terminator =P
- So, without the Venomous Dagger, that leaves the 750 able to be spent on a Fur Coat for Mara, huge defensive improvement. Other potential items are Half Plate for Nara (1200), Scale Shield for Nara (180), Feather Hat for Mara (280). What actually happens in the run will vary, most likely, but I would place the most priority on the Half Plate because Nara has to survive Balzack's attacks while drawing to the Card of the Stars. (Card of the Moon will cripple Balzack, also nice to draw) If Mara dies then Nara gets to keep all the experience >=)
Personally I think Mara is terrible, but since we have to use her up to the Lighthouse, maybe the Fur Coat/Feather Hat isn't a bad idea either. The Feather Hat will get replaced by the Golden Barrette in Konenber, but this is your last chance to spend that gold anyway. Buying a spare Half Plate for the Hero is a good idea too, unless I already left one in the flooded cave...
ShinerCCC
ShinerCCC
Edit history:
ShinerCCC: 2010-04-13 02:31:23 am
2010-04-07 04:10:01 am
Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.
Hmm, making some headway into Chapter 5...screwed up a little in previous chapters, yes, but that can be amended later!

I have found out the hard way if you don't improve Mara's Dancer's Costume, you can't really do that at all in Chapter 5...Venomous Dagger for Nara is definitely out...

SEGMENT 23
- Search the patch where Celia was lying for a Feather Hat.
- Walk to Woodsman's shack, loot jars for 50 gold, Leather Armour and Medical Herb. While name length doesn't matter for combat, it matters for item transactions out of battle, so we'll have to think of a clever 1 or 2 letter name. I suggest CJ if chessjerk is the one who does this run. Or DW if it's Darkwing Duck, although that will just make people think of Arthur.
- Visit Branca just to add it as a Return location
- Walk to Endor. Night will fall, unfortunately. Talk to Nara and Mara, get them Metal Babble Shields using Alena's account (hero can't use them...interesting). Meteorite Armbands are probably optional, I got some anyway. Give Nara's old Scale Shield to the hero. Rearrange party to Nara, Mara, Hero.
- Walk to flooded cave, grab Morning Star, Medical Herb and Iron Spear, equip Iron Spear on hero. Broad Sword is optional if you didn't grab it, but Iron Spear isn't very far into the cave; grabbing that Broad Sword will speed up Chapter 3 by a certain amount for sure, Iron Spear will shortly be replaced by Sword of Malice. The Morning Star is a waste of Taloon's valuable inventory space, and the 937 it sells for is insignificant to him, but a huge boost to the hero.
- Give all 3 Medical Herbs to Hero
- Cast Outside, Return to Endor, pace around until daytime
- sell leftover stuff from Nara, Morning Star, Copper Sword, Leather Armor, Leather Hat, buy Half Plate Armor for hero, Return to Branca, stay at inn, save

The Sword of Malice can be purchased in Lakanaba if it's still in your shop after Chapter 3. It still costs 3500 though, too much at the start of the game; it can wait until you get a free one after Taloon joins you.

SEGMENT 24
- run from Giant Eyeballs. Not worth the trouble.
- Walk to Cave of Betrayal. If hero learns, Healmore, sweet.
- Kill Liclics. The extra defense makes a huge difference, I took 4 or 5 damage this time, without it I was taking 9 or 10. If you get Surrounded you're probably doomed. I love how the sisters' battle music plays when the hero is by herself!
- in Vampire Bat/Tricksy Urchin fight, Expel is not worth trying on the Vampire Bats. Seems to have about a 49% chance of working; usually one of them is sent away, rarely none or both though. But all the Bats can do is 1 damage to you. Urchins die in 2 or 3 Iron Spear stabs so take them out first. This fight is easy as long as you can stay healed. I'm sure my Meteorite Armband and Medical Herbs were crucial toward this end...Level shot up from 5 to 7. Actually that's not much. The bats only add 22 exp.
- after getting Symbol of Faith and WALKING out, re-arrange party and talk to Hector. (LMAO while making the savestate some Armor Scorpions terribly blew Nara AND Mara, leaving the hero alone to gain all the experience. even with the deaths I profited in gold too)
- Stop by Aneaux to add it as a Return location. Buy a Fur Coat/Feather Hat for Mara if you want.
- Get to Konenber and buy Golden Barrettes for Nara, Mara, and hero, who I presumed you made female because there's no benefit in making a male one, as far as I know. Well, maybe it saves a few frames of dialogue from Celia at the start, but come on, a Golden Barrette is way better than a Wooden Hat. While you can buy the Broad Sword here, look at how it costs over twice as much as the Iron Spear you got for free, without actually being twice as good. And it definitely isn't twice as good as the Poison Needle, in a way...Nara doesn't need 540 gold being wasted on her, the difference between 107 and 111 defense power is nothing because of diminishing returns, right?
- grab Small Medal on Taloon's ship, grab Small Medal on old ship, use the inn, save

Lighthouse Bengal fight should prove easy with Metal Babble Shields, especially with Use No MP tactic. The Poison Needle might kill one of the Flamers, at least I'm hoping it will since Mara's magic is useless against them. My next concern is having enough money for a Sword of Malice when I get to Mintos.

When Taloon joins up, I'm not sure who I will give the boot. Probably Nara, she doesn't use Infernos in battle on Normal tactic, maybe Offensive would bring it out...I'm just going through every fight on frameskip here, so winning fights quickly appears to be the real method to speedrun, but that only levels up the hero effectively. The final team needs to be put together quickly and then they need to be stuck with throughout. Mara's mass damage spells would win most random battles quickly but she sucks in boss fights, so I'm thinking Alena/Cristo/Hero/Taloon is the ideal team. Alena and Taloon for criticals/quirky physical attacks, Cristo for awesome attacking and healing, Hero for, well, being controllable.
ShinerCCC
2010-04-09 09:11:20 pm
Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.
Going to post Red Scarlet's full game PS1 run. I'll watch it for fun at some point, maybe I'll glean something from it.

http://www.archive.org/details/Dragon_Quest_4_PS1-Red_Scarlet

I'm watching the Dragon Quest Marathon so I won't be working on the DW4 route for some time.
Paulygon
2010-04-10 12:00:33 am
I like to watch
He's at Chapter 5 now, around the Cave of Betrayal, in case anybody wants an update.
ShinerCCC
2010-04-10 01:15:44 am
Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.
And he's been there for nearly two hours...stuck in earlier chapters for the 10 before that...>_<

Valis' playing makes me cringe. But I think he banned me from the chat because he got butthurt about me poking fun at his silly mistakes. Like not using the Sphere of Silence on Balzack. He went through a lot of trouble to get it too, getting it before Orin...or buying a Poison Needle, getting the Gunpowder Jar, then selling the Poison Needle...

You'd think he'd know the game a little better than that, having played the DS version...I understand if he wants to talk to people, just to compare the old localization to the new one, but supremely rookie mistakes like those...
ShinerCCC
ShinerCCC
Edit history:
ShinerCCC: 2010-04-11 10:17:49 pm
2010-04-10 09:07:10 am
Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.
preliminary next few segments...

SEGMENT 25
- Clamber up the Lighthouse. Don't stop for any chests, except the Fire of Serenity of course. The Lighthouse Bengal fight is actually surprisingly hard. Iron Spears don't do more than 9 damage to the Flamers, but they're good enough for taking out the Bengal first. I recommend an Offensive tactic because Nara's Infernos does over 20 damage to the Flamers, Mara's Bang works sometimes, haven't seen the Poison Needle work on anything yet though.
- Use the Fire, cast Return (or throw a Wing, better buy one in the previous segment). Get Taloon to join up. Note he can't use the Metal Babble Shield. No word yet if extra Swords of Malice for selling are good, but I was very happy to see one to switch onto my Hero right away!
- In Mintos, buy an Iron Helmet for Taloon. (I had about 4500 gold). Don't bother getting the Treasure Map. Buy another Wing of Wyvern too. Pick up the Small Medal left of the well.
- Walk to shrine and pick up Small Medal, walk to Soretta, save, end segment.

SEGMENT 26 (oops, test time for 26 + walking from Mintos was 20 minutes)
- Walk south to Padequia cave, grab Padequia Seed...no idea if Robe of Serenity is any good. It sells for an amazing 4500 and has 33 defense: for comparison, Iron Apron is 32, Full Plate is 35. And I wonder if it has that "resists Defeat" property too. Anyone but Ragnar and Hero can wear it, but I wonder if that's an issue for a female hero? Offensive tactic works great for clearing out enemies quick but make sure Mara has MP to spare for Outside. edit: getting Robe of Serenity for Alena Cristo. This + his low HP and high defense is a seriously good combo, especially with Sword of Miracles.
- Stick to Offensive and level in here until Hero learns Outside at level 13.
- Turn in seed for root, Return or Wing back to Mintos
- Add Alena to your team, Hector leaves
- Buy: Golden Barrette for Alena, and Iron Helmet for Cristo. (on my save state, he was only wearing a weapon, the Metal Babble Shield and a Meteorite Armband...I think that was so I could have more money, or kill him more easily for attempted Alena-only Metal Slime grinding) Buy Golden Barrette for Alena. New formation is Cristo, Taloon, Hero, Alena. Save.

SEGMENT 27
This is where the game really opens up. Here is the route I'm choosing for now.
NOTE: Don't even THINK about manipulating Plesiosaurs. The Stiletto Earrings drop is 1/4096, according to the TAS author. NO FORKING THANKS.
- Return to Endor. Hector leaves. Form new team of Cristo/Hero/Alena/Taloon. Drop off Symbol of Faith. Stay at the inn. Note that your choice of tactic only affects Cristo.
- Sail south along chain of islands; I think it's the first one where you sail west to find the island with the hermit on it (right jar). Grab the Small Medal there, sail south to Haville, leave to add it as a Return location. Same with Keeleon.
- Walk west, add Aktemto as a Return location. Optimize for lots of Mystic Dolls, i.e. money. When you get there, Return to Aktemto to move the boat to you.
- Sail north to Seaside Village, grab Small Medal from cannon, pick up Stone of Drought?? The Metal Babble Sword is probably way too much effort to get, but so is building up money for weapons...
- Sail north, add Santeem as Return location
- Sail north and a little east to Stancia. Pick up the two Small Medals there (stair-house on the right, right jar; other one is second drawer from the left). Talk to the mustache guy to learn about Panon. Return to Stancia.
- Sail west from Stancia's southern coast to the Small Medal King. Get a Sword of Miracles for Cristo.
- Return to Keeleon, walk to Kievs, stay at the inn for free. Walk to Monbaraba, get Panon to join. Return to Keeleon to get out quickly.
- New team: Cristo/Hero/Panon/Taloon. Walk to Kievs, stay at the inn for free again, walk to cave.
- Get Magic Key and Lamp of Darkness. Don't forget to grab the Small Medal in the jar on the left. Cast Outside, Return to Endor, use Lamp of Darkness, grab Multi-Edge Sword and feed Strength Seed to Alena. Go to the king's dressing room and pilfer the Feather Hat, Pink Leotard and Small Medal. Return to Monbaraba and save.

SEGMENT 28
- Return to Stancia, sail to Medal King, grab Zenithian Armor and both Small Medals in the cave. (fourth dark pocket on the left) The enemies are beatable but still very dangerous. I recommend running. Fury Faces are easy, Necrodains are too tough, Snowjives are either "lol useless physical attacks" or "ARGH INSTANT DEATH BY BLIZZARD"; try Offensive tactic and hope Cristo uses Stopspell or Taloon does the mouthgrab. Taloon's support skills are also excellent against Karons. [After just a few tests, I made it...it's pretty easy. Brey barely made it through with 26 HP left.
- Get another Sword of Miracles from Medal King, give it to Hero. Give Pink Leotard to Alena, sell Multi-Edge Sword
- after the cave you should have money no matter what...Return to Konenber, revive everyone, sail north up the river to Rosaville, buy Stiletto Earrings for Alena. Sell Iron Claw, Chain Mail and Cristo's old Copper Sword/Staff of Jubilation.
- Return to Aneaux, pick up Strength Seed by Ruvas' grave.
- Return to Haville, save

SEGMENT 29
- Feed Strength Seed to Alena, restart if it isn't 3 points.
- Challenge Keeleon using Panon, Panon's sword can put him to sleep. If you choose Offensive tactics, Cristo will only spam Stopspell. While it can contain Keeleon's spells...why can't he just use Surround?!??
- lmao wtf Keeleon was beyond easy, only his physical attacks hurt in any capacity. It looks like the Full Plate Armor drops 100% of the time so Cristo doesn't really need that Sacred Robe I just bought for him...*_*
- Return to Stancia, cash in Panon for Zenithian Helm. He can put Balzack to sleep, yes, but you can't use the wagon...he's just not useful enough. Give the hand-me-down Golden Barrette to Nara or Mara.
- Return to Santeem, save in Surene.

NOTE: Taloon's offense is only 1 point less than Panon's...you can try using him instead.

I went to the Royal Crypt to test out leveling there...the enemies are killable if you manage to kill a Metal Babble, which is quite likely thanks to the Poison Needle, and a Venomous Dagger from Nara. Or a critical from Alena or Taloon tripping. So there's our Metal Babble assassination team. Mara can learn BeDragon later which works even better. Taloon might steal a Hat of Happiness from Metal Babbles too but that would just be icing on the cake. While you can't summon the other members, they still get experience, so maybe this should be put off until Ragnar is around. I don't plan on using him intentionally, but for Necrosaro it may come down to a war of attrition.

EDIT: durrr checked the TAS and changed stuff.
That's enough for this post, next post will have next segments I guess...
ShinerCCC
ShinerCCC
Edit history:
ShinerCCC: 2010-04-11 03:05:28 pm
2010-04-11 03:04:29 am
Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.
The next few boss battles are even more open-ended, I suspect I may edit this post a lot, so I moved Segment 30 over here.

SEGMENT 30
- Actually, Cristo really does need that Sacred Robe for Balzack's Snowstorm.
- Switch team to Hero/Cristo/Alena/Taloon. Move the Sword of Miracles to Taloon. Challenge Balzack. You can win at level 16-17 ish. Ragnar gained 4 levels and surpassed Taloon's strength, lol. Generally, the only characters that matter are the ones holding Sword of Miracles, because they become self-sufficient and do enough damage to pierce Balzack's regen. Note you also get a shorter intro dialogue from Balzack if you don't have Nara or Mara in your party. I wish I knew what tactic was most likely to bring out Upper and Increase from Cristo, though...Defensive sometimes gets him to Upper himself, but he still casts Stopspell. Try Out seems to be the only way to bring out Increase though, and remind characters they can use a Metal Babble Shield for Fendspell. But Try Out more often than not makes my characters put on their Meteorite Armbands, lol, guess we don't need those after all. A great trick I've also discovered is having the Hero borrow a Metal Babble Shield and using it for Fendspell right away; use the Use No MP tactic and Cristo will try to stay alive with the Sword of Miracles while Taloon and Alena plug away.
- Go downstairs and grab Magma Staff, Strength Seed and Flute of Uncovering. Give Strength Seed to Alena. Equip Magma Staff to Cristo, move Sword of Miracles to Ragnar. Swap Taloon's Iron Shield with Ragnar's Scale Shield. Equip Sword of Miracles, Full Plate Armor and Iron Shield to Ragnar. sorry Taloon, I'm tired of your useless special attacks
- Return to Rosaville, switch team to Hero/Cristo/Alena/Ragnar, save

SEGMENT 31
- Challenge Saroknight for a quick boost of exp (about 7000, depending on how many Chillanodons arrive, even more than Balzack 2!). Cristo's Increase is essential here. Return to Rosaville after winning to escape quickly. Cristo hit level 19 here for me and learned Beat...my Offensive tactic will never be the same again ;_;
- Give the Sphere of Silence to Hero. Finally, someone can use Stopspell at will! *cough Fendspell is better cough*
- Sail north along the river and land on the Gardenbur land mass. These enemies are tougher but manageable. Before entering the castle, put Brey in slot 2 so he's taken hostage automatically.
- Grab the Small Medal (left kitchen, rightmost pot that sticks out), get the Bronze Amulet stolen. Cast Return, switch team to Hero/Cristo/Taloon/Alena, save.

SEGMENT 32
- Head into cave. Grab Dragon Shield and Iron Mask for Ragnar on the way to Bakor. Collect Strength Seed on the way and feed it to Alena.
- Against Bakor, use the Sphere of Silence. Defensive tactics will eventually get an Increase from Cristo, but he did try Stopspell and Beat...?_? No matter, he's really easy compared to Balzack and even the Saroknight.
- Feed the Agility Seed to the Hero, I guess. After Bakor dies cast Outside. Go back into the cave, grab the Small Medal, cast Outside again, Return to Gardenbur, collect Final Key, Fire Claw and Zenithian Shield. Walk out of the castle, stupid ceiling everywhere for once...
- Return to Branca, pick up Mystic Acorns, 120 gold and Small Medal. Return to Mintos, sail to Riverton, pick up the Small Medal on the center island, sell Ragnar's Full Plate Armor, Fire Claw, Mystic Acorns and Multi-Edge Sword, buy Dragon Mail for Ragnar. [I also bought a Sacred Robe for Nara but I think that was a mistake, IIRC Necrosaro uses far more breath weapons than spells] Return to Haville and grab the Small Medals from the right and left jail cells. Return to Konenber and collect the Sword of Decimation. Return to Stancia and sail to Medal King, cash in Medals and trade for another Sword of Miracles for Cristo, hand down Magma Staff to Nara. Return to Endor, cast Repel and walk to Lakanaba to collect the Ice Blade, Chain Sickle and Strength Seed (feed to Alena, duh). Return to Endor again, rest at inn, get a Meteorite Armband for Ragnar, stash the Thief's Key, Magic Key, and Flute of Uncovering, save.

Wow. Look how easily I got 3 Sword of Miracles. I'm going to keep the Sword of Decimation around for the Hero though so I can cast Defense on enemies at will. Actually, thus far Alena hasn't seen all that much action, maybe Stiletto Earrings could be skipped in favour of some armour or just saving gold for the sake of saving it. The Fire Claw can be sold for 7500 so at this point you could buy anything you wanted, even Metal Babble Armor. Does Swordedge Armor reflect damage back at Metal Babbles if they hit with a physical attack? Ack, it only reflects some of the time in DW4...terrible...

SEGMENT 33
- Form Hero/Ragnar/Cristo/Alena, sail to Royal Crypt. Try to kill 2 or 3 Metal Babbles, and by that I mean SERIOUSLY OPTIMIZE THIS SEGMENT. Grab the Staff of Antimagic, even though it screws up character AI it does sell for 3000. Even though it's somewhat out of the way, grab the Small Medal. After getting the Staff of Transform, cast Outside.
- Return to Monbaraba, save. Monbaraba has the closest House of Healing with the nearest exit.

SEGMENT 34
- Return to Riverton, scale the Colossus. Grab the Small Medal on the first floor. Remember to bring the Staff of Transform and Final Key, but if you forget those, you can Return to Dire Palace when you get there to summon the wagon. (this game is smart about where your wagon is and isn't)
- Reach Dire Palace. Get the Small Medal in the left jar in the kitchen. After the meeting, go to the treasury and get the Small Medal along with Aeolus' Shield. The shield is for selling, 20 defense for Ragnar is trash compared to breath resist, especially since a single Increase will boost your overall defense by hundreds.
- Return to Stancia, cast Repel and get a Hat of Happiness for Cristo.
- Return to Santeem and buy a Poison Needle for Brey, sell Aeolus' Shield, Staff of Antimagic and Chain Sickle. In this segment I have 20,000 gold but I am convinced Metal Babble Armor is useless because the characters that can wear it can wear armour that resists spells or breath instead. There's is nothing helpful out there that money can buy, at least before Esturk. Well, maybe Swordedge Armor + Sword of Decimation could still form a lolzy combo.
- Return to Monbaraba and save.

I actually got some good mileage out of the Ice Blade on Hero in this segment. When Rhinobands used Upper it was a surefire way to damage them, although you should know Boom by now anyway. Or you can just use the Sword of Decimation to lower their defense again. Or you can switch to Offensive and hope Cristo uses Beat. Maskans are also immune to Boom but quite vulnerable to Snowstorm. More importantly, all those Strength Seeds on Alena seem to have made a huuuuge difference in her damage...better double check there aren't any I should leave behind for her from Chapter 2 or 4.

These savestates I'm making are sloppy but after this route is built from the ground up I'll probably re-run the whole game.
I've noticed this route is quite applicable to single-segment, except for the Metal Babble Shields...such a shame, since one, hopefully two, are essential for Balzack 2. And probably quite helpful for the Lighthouse Bengal fight. Actually the Broad Sword has 40 attack over the Iron Spear's 28, so I should re-adjust the route to allow for the hero picking up the Broad Sword in the Silver Cave in Chapter 5, or instead, having Mara bring over a free Half Plate so I can spend my cash on the Broad Sword instead. Taloon should still be loaded completely with Abacus of Virtue for the cash boost.

Stupid Enix, you screwed up! You should have swapped the Zenithian Armor with the Zenithian Shield so I could cast Bounce on myself for Balzack 2! graaaahhh
ShinerCCC
ShinerCCC
Edit history:
ShinerCCC: 2010-04-11 11:36:57 pm
2010-04-11 02:56:49 pm
Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.
wtf I'm nearing the endgame already?

SEGMENT 35 (25 minutes)
- Stay at the inn. Return to Aktemto. Take in Hero/Ragnar/Cristo/Alena as usual. Cristo's Antidote spell will come in mighty handy. Use No MP is the tactic of choice down here. Have Cristo heal after battles liberally, the Hat of Happiness will recharge his MP by 1 every 4 steps.
- Grab the Small Medal by the pool. Get both Small Medals in the ruins. Pick up the 2480 gold chest. Feed the Agility Seed to Cristo, and the Strength Seed to Alena.
- Attack the Rhinoking, or use the Sword of Decimation on him, whatever, he's no threat.
- Kill Esturk. He's easy, just be sure to have the Hero and Cristo keep everyone healed. The lights do more damage than you might think. Defensive tactic will make Cristo use Increase. Use the Sword of Decimation on him too. Possible strategy: Ironize at the start until he wakes up, his attack pattern changes to simpler physical attacks or freezing waves.
- After Necrosaro's outburst, cast Outside, Return to Riverton, get the balloon made, Return to Soretta?

SEGMENT 36
- Make team Hero/Ragnar/Cristo. Self sufficiency FTW!
- Fly to Elfville and buy Water Flying Clothes for Brey (finally, he's not naked any more) and a Shield of Strength for Ragnar (temporarily, will be moved to Alena after tree).
- Climb tree, pick up a Leaf before grabbing the Zenithian Sword. Use the Offensive tactic on the way up; Cristo's Beat/Defeat spells will often wreck enemy groups very quickly. Don't stop to heal often either, a Leaf of the World Tree can revive someone to full faster than repeated Healmores. Just make sure at least one person keeps high health. Cristo should learn Healall on the way up anyway. After getting the Zenithian Sword, check your money; if you can afford it, jump off and buy a Shield of Strength for Taloon, sell his old Iron Shield too.
- Return to Monbaraba, save

I've realized now, I can outfit Taloon with one last Sword of Miracles with the game's remaining medals and give the Metal Babble Sword to Nara, then my team will be absolutely brimming with offensive powerhouses. There's one last medal in the Cascade Cave too, which would allow for one more Hat of Happiness...I could give it to Brey for more defense I guess. I'm thinking my setup for Necrosaro should be a trash team to whittle him down until they can't hang on any more, then switching to the Sword of Miracles users to outlast him. So Nara/Alena/Brey/Mara would go first, then Hero/Ragnar/Taloon/Cristo would finish up. If the Hero learns Transform there might be merit in pairing him with Brey so I can manually cast Bikill and Sap. Oh wait, Lucia or Doran would be after that...testing so far has me leaning toward bringing Lucia to the Evil World.

Notice the only grinding I've done the whole of Chapter 5 is killing the Saroknight, if you don't count my trip to the Silver Cave at the start. That might even be skippable, but Esturk would be a little tougher. ...he wasn't that hard anyway. A Metal Babble would still give more experience, and I could almost certainly do without the Sphere of Silence for Bakor.

If Cascade Cave is necessary, it can be saved for one segment before a beef gate, whether it's Necrosaro himself or one of his four barrier guardians as a grinding break and power boost from the Metal Babble Sword.

"But Shiner, what about the improved Zenithian Sword?" It only has 10 points more attack than the Sword of Miracles. Another crazy option: sell a Sword of Miracles for 7125 gold! XD

I'm not even going to consider Staff of Punishment for Infermore, wind spells hardly hit anything and at this point I can do so much more damage with other stuff.

SEGMENT 37
- Return to Konenber and fly to Gottside.
- Pick up Small Medal in right drawer in northern pit. Return to Gottside to quickly leave.
- Go grab Baron's Horn and Dress of Radiance for Alena.
- Walk to Zenithian Tower. Yes, you have to equip the Zenithian Sword...move the Ice Blade to Mara. Once inside you can switch back to the Sword of Miracles. Argh, the map on GameFAQs is way too hard to follow, I'll just follow the TAS. Dragon Shield is somewhat on the way if you need 5325 gold. But for now I'm not going to grab it. [looks like I didn't need it]
- Pick up the Small Medal in your "mother's" room, right drawer. Pick up some Dew of the World Tree.
- Talk to Master Dragon if you want...the exp didn't level me up, and it looks like I won't need to use the neo-Zenithian Sword. After that, Return to Monbaraba, use the inn and save.

SEGMENT 38
- Return to Zenithia
- Switch team to Hero/Lucia, add Doran to team. Jump down to Final Cave, switch team to Hero/Ragnar/Cristo/Alena. [lol, without even taking a step into Final Cave a Master Malice attacks me. I raped him but the fight takes a long time and you only get 1232 exp, just run away]
[I'd also recommend running from Ogrebashers. They're harmless but have too much HP to be worth troubling over]
[Be careful of Red Dragons using Surround. I don't think the Sphere of Silence works, but they have low HP anyway]
- Proceed north, equip Dress of Radiance to Nara, hand down Pink Leotard to Mara (or better yet, sell it later to afford Water Flying Clothes for her later?). See how Shield of Strength gives Alena guaranteed healing even if the Dress of Radiance reflects Healalls? Well, actually in random battles she'll often heal herself when she could just end it by attacking, maybe that Shield of Strength can wait.
- Grab Demon Armor. Just 'cuz it's there. I equipped this armour on Ragnar and guess what the negative effect is? Reducing your Agility to 0. That is not a drawback for Ragnar. It even has the same breath resist as Dragon Mail, on top of having extra defense! He definitely doesn't get a Meteorite Armband now...
- On the four treasure room, open them counter-clockwise starting from the top right. Feed Cristo the Lifeforce Nuts and Agility Seed, feed Alena the Strength Seed.
- Sail to swamp, grab Water Flying Clothes
- Grab the Mirror Shield on the way down and equip it to...wait my inventory is full. Stupid Wizard's Rings I never use D:
- reach Last Refuge and save.

SEGMENT 39
- Return to Stancia, get the last Sword of Miracles for Taloon. Equip Demon Armor and Mirror Shield to Ragnar. Now he has spell and breath resist...so good...
- Return to Endor, drop off Gas Canister and Staff of Transform and Ragnar's Meteorite Armband I stupidly got him. Sell Dancer's Costume/Fur Coat, Dragon Shield, Sword of Malice, Dragon Mail, Pink Leotard, and Half Plate Armor, buy Metal Babble Armor for Nara. If I'm really going to use her for the first phase of Necrosaro, I need someone to weather the physical attacks, not the breath weapons.
- Give Ragnar the Leaf of the World Tree. Give Alena the Dew of the World Tree.
- Return to Soretta, fly to Elfville, buy a Shield of Strength for Brey
- Return to Rosaville, fly balloon to Cascade Cave, get Metal Babble Sword for Nara, Mask of Corruption for Brey, hand down Magma Staff to Mara. Use Offensive tactic to have Cristo clean house using Defeat. Cast Outside.
- Return to Last Refuge and go back up Final Cave from the bottom and grab Lifeforce Nuts for Cristo. Don't feed them until next segment so you can manipulate a good roll.
- Save at Last Refuge.

Interesting...Brey's only helmets are Leather Hat, Hat of Happiness, and...Mask of Corruption. I tested how he does alone and he basically never attacks, but 339 defense really is something. I've come up with a use for him...

Next post will detail order and plans for 4 barrier guardians! This should prove to be quite the headache, because everyone who didn't kill Esturk is...well, look at these levels.
Hero: 30 (has about 30k more exp than everyone else because of Master Dragon. Just learned Transform while in Cascade Cave! yessss)
Ragnar: 30
Cristo: 31 (has 2nd most exp, just learned Healus)
Alena: 31
Nara: 23 (has just as much as these other 4 cronies...wtf?? Just learned Infermore, OMG SO GOOOOOOD)
Taloon: 27
Mara: 26
Brey: 25 (gained 11 intelligence and 5 MP, no new spell...wtf)
scaryice
2010-04-11 06:03:12 pm
What are we looking at here for an estimated run time?
ShinerCCC
ShinerCCC
Edit history:
ShinerCCC: 2010-04-13 01:35:22 pm
2010-04-11 07:18:13 pm
Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.
Dunno, haven't been timing these segments since I'm playing on 150% game speed or frameskipping certain parts. Just playing the game to make sure this route works, and building it from the ground up.

I timed the first two chapters, my test time for Chapter 1 was 33 minutes, Chapter 2 makes it about 90 minutes.

I'll start over from the end of Chapter 2 once this test run is complete, and properly time stuff. Chapter 3 is still up in the air for planning though.

As a complete estimate, I'm going to say 7 or 8 hours. Single segment could do it in 10 or less, depends on how the casino goes (or if I come up with some grinding alternative or a surefire strategy for Balzack 2. so far he is the main concern of the whole run)

Actually, why don't I upload all my FCEU savestates so other people can time these segments I just wrote out? (;

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RUXN2IG9

There's a hole from 13 to 18 because I didn't feel like figuring out Chapter 3. It involves loading up Taloon with stuff to sell when you meet him though. I think it should involve leaving the Morning Star, Iron Spear and Medical Herb in the cave for the hero though. The hero can sell those and the Feather Hat for 937 + 660 + 210 and almost buy a Broad Sword, and Nara should bring an extra Half Plate, should be quite affordable if sticking with the free Silver Tarot Cards for a weapon...in fact it should just take priority over Mara's Poison Needle. A Broad Sword will do a lot more good toward winning the lighthouse fight than a Poison Needle, I never once hit the vital spot there...
ShinerCCC
ShinerCCC
Edit history:
ShinerCCC: 2010-04-13 05:29:56 am
2010-04-11 09:40:27 pm
Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.
The hole has inspired me. I'm going to make up Taloon's segments now.

SEGMENT 13 (yeah, 13 I guess, GRINDING PLAN, Alena needs metal slimes, etc) (13 minutes, not much haggling but I died once on the way to the Chain Sickle. After chasing away the foxes, I walked to Lakanaba to return Tov instead and picked up an extra Lunch too.)
This is quite possibly the most hilarious scenario I've ever seen for a speedrun.
- Pluck the Medical Herb from the left jar downstairs
- Run from monsters all the way to Bonmalmo
- Haggle with the old man, get him to buy the clothes off your back for 12 gold or more
- Sell Medical Herb and Lunch, buy Wing of Wyvern, free Tom, ask guards to escort you out of prison, talk to Reed
- Pace around on plains until nightfall, get Prince's Letter
- Wander into forest outside, get into a fight with something other than a Healer and punch yourself out to deathwarp home. It's probably faster to just walk but this is much, much more hilarious and looks like TAS.
- Add Tov to your team
- Go to Iron Cave. The first floodgate doesn't help, there are no encounters on that floor. Pick up Chain Sickle, equip it, suicide to escape
- Chase away foxes. Don't fight Giant Worms, you can't one-shot them yet.
- Save in Bonmalmo

SEGMENT 14 (6 minutes with exactly the route described. Only haggled for 28xx on the Full Plate though; you'll end up taking a second trip into the Silver Cave anyway so I think it's acceptable.)
- Talk to King to telepathically repair the bridge
- Haggle a huge price on the Full Plate Armor. For me, he usually offers in the 2000s range but all of a sudden I'll get an offer for 3700 or 3800. If this takes too long just restart the segment. (suddenly I want to do this SS instead...Neta can bank my gold for all those Balzack 2 attempts...)
- Stay at the inn here. Yes, the Herb is 2 gold cheaper, but if you start walking from here night will fall over Endor and you'll have to use their inn, totaling a cost of 14 gold.
- Buy three Wings. Walk to Endor and read letter. Wing to Lakanaba and return Tov, grab another Lunch. Wing from your bed to Bonmalmo and read Royal Scroll. Wing to Endor.
- Hire Strom and Laurent and enter Silver Cave. Re-order to Strom/Laurent/Taloon. Save.

SEGMENT 15
- Go to Silver Cave. Taloon can hold 7 items, so don't leave until he's carrying a full load, one of which is the Silver Statuette. Pick up the Wing of Wyvern, Broad Sword and Half Plate Armor, unless you find other good stuff. You probably will, that's why I'm segmenting here. Grab the Medical Herb while upstairs before your inventory is full and use it to heal someone. Use the Wing of Wyvern to return to Endor quickly, virtually extending Strom & Laurent's stay with you. [During the opening creation of this savestate...Strom and Laurent died, Taloon ran from the last three fights, escaping with only 9 HP. I also found a Broad Sword and Half Plate from enemy drops. Trust in that Medical Herb!!]
- You probably won't have enough money for the shop yet...so buy another Wing of Wyvern and a stay at the inn.
- Cash in Statue
- Talk to King
- Revive Strom and Laurent if they died for the enormous cost of 10 or 20 gold. Save to end segment.

Note that if Taloon gets poisoned he won't take poison damage while on the boat. He needs about 18 HP to make it upstairs from the bottom floor.

SEGMENT 16
While it may look like I'm trying to make Strom and Laurent hang on, I need to get rid of them ASAP.
- Go loot the cave until full of good stuff again. Remember, leave the Morning Star and Iron Spear.
- Wing to Bonmalmo to sell any good armour. Buy a Wing there and get back to Endor.
- Open your shop and place everything else in there.
- Start the Abacus of Virtue feedback loop: give stuff to Neta, go around and stay with her for free, collect Lunch, repeat. At some point, step outside to make Strom and Laurent leave so you can make your transactions faster. Sell your daily Lunch to the weapon salesman so you can just hold down the A button while talking to Neta. When you break 22450 gold, buy a Wing. Talk to the King, then Wing to Bonmalmo to buy a Wing then 7 Broad Swords. Wing back to Endor and talk to his soldier downstairs to drop off the Swords. Collect the King's reward. Buy 8 more Abacus of Virtue and sell them off, then rake in the profit so you can leave the chapter with 7 Abacus of Virtue (one equipped) and an Iron Apron equipped. You can buy Taloon's gear in Mintos for less than 1200 each, so you can sell the other 6 Abaci (lol) at a profit of and still outfit him.
- Pay cave man, re-enter, talk to cave man, walk back to Endor, talk to Neta (over the counter is fine [that's what she said]), take one step in and out of casino, say Yes to Neta, talk to cave man to end chapter and save. Taloon will probably finish at level 10 and nowhere near level 11 so just run from any incidental fights.

SEGMENT 17
I made leeway for 5 segments for Chapter 3, but looks like I did it in 4. ...optional manipulation for Sword of Malice instead of Broad Sword! =D So that would be segment 15.5 I guess.

ACTUAL SEGMENT 17
Since money is hard to come by for Alena (at least before all the mandated grinding...) Make the new target gold 39475 (or more) so you can spend at least 1000 to get 100 coins, then win poker and start a huge double-or-nothing. Get 150,000 coins because you only need 3 Metal Babble Shields; Cristo is the only one that needs to wear one, the other two are for Balzack 2. BUT don't cash them in obviously, you're holding too many Broad Swords, just leave the coins on the account for Nara and Mara to spend.

This route is actually a pretty relaxing way to do Chapter 3. But there's a bit of risk of dying so that's why this is segmented, yo.

The profit Taloon makes when he joins you in Chapter 5 is:
550 (1200 - 650 for Iron Shield) +
100 (1200 - 1100 for Iron Helmet) +
1200 x 5 (6000) for loose Abaci
= 6650. Almost enough for a Sword of Malice for him and the Hero alike, with a kickback of 1500 (or 660 if you used an Iron Spear).

Or, I have a better idea: never use Taloon ever, except at the very end of the game (or as a meat wall in the Shrine of Breaking Waves I guess) and load him up with 8 Broad Swords, walk from Bonmalmo to the end of the chapter. It takes a little longer because of the walk but hear me out. Those will sell for 1500 x 8 = 12000. If you're going to use Taloon, send him out of Chapter 3 wearing an Abacus of Virtue and an Iron Apron (bought for the same as the Broad Sword's sell price, might as well walk around defended). Still, that means the gold value to end the feedback loop is now 38475. If Taloon is outfitted then your surplus gold is 5250 after purchasing a Sword of Malice for him. Should still be enough for immediate Stiletto Earrings in segment 27, although they won't be very effective until Alena gains a few levels first. But at the expected level of arrival, 12, she has a critical rate of 3/64...at level 16 that reaches a decent 1/16, double what a DW1 player would be used to =D

Alternatively, if it were 8x Sword of Malice, minus an equip for him and giving one to the Hero, we have:
1975 (2625 - 650 for Iron Shield) +
1125 (2625 - 1500 for Iron Apron) +
1525 (2625 - 1100 for Iron Helmet) +
2625 x 3 (7875) for loose swords
= 12500, free to spend as we wish. O_O
Or, 2625 x 7 = 18375 if you don't care to use Taloon at all. But that's more than is even needed, seriously. Might as well outfit Taloon so he can take more hits in the Shrine of Breaking Waves.

While that sounds exciting, bear in mind Alena does barely any damage to Balzack 2 with Stiletto Earrings, so that's not the answer to him. Getting an early Dragon Mail for Ragnar would marginally reduce the freezing wind damage. Actually, I just thought of lending Ragnar a Metal Babble Shield as well, then try to get him to use it to put up Fendspell, then he can keep himself alive with the Sword of Miracles or some Medical Herbs. While Ragnar is level 11 and Taloon is level 16 or so at this point, his strength is still higher than Taloon's, and he can still use better equipment than Taloon.

...just tried it, I beat Balzack 2 with EVERYONE ALIVE. omg wut?!

If anybody wants to time these I'll upload the save states. BTW my version of FCEU is FCEUX 2.0.3, if that matters; a savestate should be nothing but RAM values though, right?
ShinerCCC
ShinerCCC
Edit history:
ShinerCCC: 2010-04-12 01:26:11 am
2010-04-11 10:16:47 pm
Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.
Made a small change to segment 27: return to Keeleon instead of Monbaraba, it's much closer to Kievs.

I came up with something else: we can deal with Ragnar's lower level by adding him to the team one segment sooner. He'll collect some extra experience in the Shrine of Breaking Waves, and have some much-needed extra HP and damage versus Balzack. So I'm going to basically reverse segments 28 and 29:

SEGMENT 28
- Return to Aneaux, pick up Strength Seed by Ruvas' grave. Feed this one and the one from Endor to Alena, restart if you don't get 2 or 3 points on each.
- Return to Konenber, sail north up the river to Rosaville, buy Stiletto Earrings for Alena. Sell Multi-Edge Sword, Iron Claw, Chain Mail and Cristo's old Copper Sword/Staff of Jubilation.
- Return to Keeleon, form Cristo/Hero/Panon/Alena. Hey look, Taloon is useless!
- Fight Keeleon, add Ragnar, equip the new Full Plate Armor on him for now. Have him steal Taloon's Iron Shield and Iron Helmet too. If you already have enough cash for Dragon Mail, go to Riverton (Return to Mintos is the fastest way there), a Sacred Robe for Cristo is good too
- Return to Monbaraba, save

SEGMENT 29
- Form Panon/Hero
- Return to Stancia, cash in Panon for Zenithian Helm. Give the hand-me-down Golden Barrette to Nara or Mara. Return to Stancia for a quick exit
- Form Cristo/Hero/Ragnar/Alena. Sail west of Stancia, break into Shrine of Breaking Waves, plunder both Small Medals and the Zenithian Armor. Cast Outside, give Medals to Medal King, get a Sword of Miracles for Ragnar.
- Return to Santeem, swap Cristo's weapon with Ragnar's. Yes, Cristo will be unarmed, but when he wants to do damage, he can toss the Sword of Malice for guaranteed Firebal damage. Have Hero and Ragnar borrow Metal Babble Shields from Brey and Mara. Move extraneous items from Cristo and Ragnar's inventory and set Tactic to Try Out.
- Save in Surene.

Panon actually does about as much damage as Alena in this fight, and his sword will occasionally put Balzack to sleep. While the Zenithian Helm does add a nice chunk of defense, it's not noticeable versus Balzack, and maybe I need the 9th person to make it easier to survive the Shrine of Breaking Waves...well, a SS run would definitely cash him in a little later.

There IS an alternative to Metal Babble Shields: the Hero learns Fendspell around level 19, and you can cast it manually on other people. So a team of Hero/Ragnar/Cristo/Nara is a given I think; give them all Fendspell then let them be self-sufficient. Just grind on Metal Babbles at Royal Crypt to get there I guess...just remember to bank all your gold and buy a Poison Needle for Brey first, you WILL die. If Nara has a Venomous Dagger, the metal killing team should be Alena/Nara/Mara/Brey.

I should totally go for a SS run of this game though. I have a copy of this back home with a battery soldered in that died anyway. No way it can save, as soon as the power cycles your data is gone. Dragon Warrior IV: Manly Edition.
ShinerCCC
ShinerCCC
Edit history:
ShinerCCC: 2010-04-12 01:12:34 am
2010-04-11 11:14:24 pm
Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.
Did a quick test of all the bosses and accidentally found the way to beat them. ...and Necrosaro too.

SEGMENT 40
- I forgot where this place was: Return to Gottside and visit the Baron's Shrine, grab the Baron's Horn and Dress of Radiance for Nara. Scrap the Metal Babble Armor from before for a Shield of Strength? Maybe.
- Set Tactic to Offensive. Ryvernlords are hilariously vulnerable to Defeat.

You can complete this circuit without a Wizard's Ring for Cristo if you're lucky, or willing to spend more time using Nara for healing. But a single Healus is obviously the fastest way to heal while on the run.

- Go counter-clockwise around, starting with Anderoug in the bottom right. He's vulnerable to Beat/Defeat so Transform into Cristo in case you get a group of 3. Doran is an okay pick in this fight because his breath weapons will damage all of them, but I think Ragnar will save more time because he will kill one (these guys probably have regen too) and cut down on the breath weapons you have to sit through. Plus you don't have to spend a few seconds changing teams.
- Radimvice: Lead with Zenithian Shield. Hopefully Cristo will clear out a few Demighouls with Defeat, and you should help out with taking out those Demighouls. If you start attacking Radimvice you won't do anything because there's probably regen.
- Infurnus Shadow: Lead with Zenithian Shield, although this guy likes using breath attacks. He almost always drops a Sword of Miracles, so...those medals I outlined for Taloon are super useless. Get a Hat of Happiness for someone instead I guess?
- Gigademon: I saved him for last, but if you have Transform he's super easy. Switch team to Hero/Nara/Alena/Cristo. Immediately Transform into Cristo and start casting Increase. If he doesn't lower it with Defence, use the Sword of Decimation on him, unless you already got lucky with the Dress of Radiance. Even though you're Cristo, you can still swing for a fair bit of damage, especially after you've reduced his defense.
- Switch team to Hero/Ragnar/Alena/Cristo. Mass damage is more prevalent so Cristo is at the back now.
- Return to Last Refuge and heal/save.

SEGMENT 41
- Enter Necrosaro's Palace.
- Steal the Sage's Stone and give it to Mara. Return to Last Refuge and save.

SEGMENT 42
- Remove Brey's weapon (Poison Needle...can it critical allies? o_O) and equip the Mask of Corruption. I know that while confused he once dug a trap and Necrosaro fell into it, losing his turn. And when the Hero transforms into him, she'll get all that defense...
- Get through Necrosaro's palace by running from stuff. Challenge Necrosaro, starting with Hero/Brey/Nara/Alena. Transform into Brey and start casting Bikill on your teammates. Brey and the Hero form a physical wall during all this, unfortunately Nara perceives confused Brey as a threat and won't heal him.
- If you Bikill an ally and they jump into the wagon, they still have Bikill on when they return. Also, when Necrosaro changes forms, if you Sapped him, his defense will return to normal.
- You can Zenithian Sword yourself to un-transform.
- When Necrosaro turns green he gains the freezing waves power.

...I got raped by Necrosaro's final form. Nara doesn't know Barrier yet (level 26, learns it at level 29) so there is no merit in Transforming into her. The physical attacks hurt a lot, so transforming into Cristo for Increase and Healus could work, but the breath weapons are by far more dangerous. I think getting Nara to level 29 is the only option. Time to devote one more segment to level grinding; Royal Crypt or Gottside hills?

edit: NEVERMIND I DID IT
It just takes a lot of LUCK. Put the Sage's Stone on Taloon, Hero/Ragnar/Cristo/Taloon were the survivors. Cristo would use Healall on whoever was just above half health (lol), Taloon frequently used the Sage's Stone, he even tripped Necrosaro once (!!!), meanwhile Hero and Ragnar whittled away with their Sword of Miracles. Well, not really whittled. See, as soon as the final form came out I stripped away Bounce with the Zenithian Sword and then used the Sword of Decimation to reduce his defense by half, then half again. Alena was doing well but I had to bring out Cristo in a pinch for some reason. Hmm, with the Leaf of the World Tree in the Hero's hands she could substitute for Cristo. And, if I were willing to use the Zenithian Sword as my weapon, I could replace the inventory slot taken by Sword of Miracles with a Wizard's Ring, then I could be liberal about using Healusall. But above all else, you just need to get lucky with Necrosaro's breath attacks.

Okay so I think this route works. Mask of Corruption offers a very interesting trick, regardless...Transform into the character of your choice, except you have massive defense without being confused. Seems like a great way to solo monsters but freezing waves would own your setup after the confused character dies.
ShinerCCC
2010-04-13 04:39:15 am
Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.
Something weird/awesome just happened while timing Segment 15. I figured I'd make it its own post for simplicity. Time was 21 minutes and the whole segment was probably a mistake. I used my existing Segment 14 savestate for this (so a 3800 haggle on the Full Plate)

- Walked to Silver Cave. Forgot to put Taloon in the back, but it was only a Stag Beetle and Prank Gopher, took no damage.
- While down there, I found 3 Clubs. Those were thrown away for the Broad Sword, Half Plate Armor and Silver Statuette. You skip the "key item found" tune if you discard to pick it up. I also found Chain Mail early on and started wearing it.
- Before I got out, I killed a Metal Slime because Strom got a terrific blow. 1/64 chance, I believe. Taloon shot up from level 7 to level 10. The next few fights got me a Wayfarer's Clothes, replaced with Leather Armor, replaced with Half Plate. I found another Half Plate later on too.
- Right before ascending to the next floor, I saw Laurent do 31 damage to a Sand Master. Huh?? In the next fight, he does 30 damage...to a Metal Slime. Not a terrific blow. The slime also drops a Leather Armor which I woefully leave behind, would have made a good souvenir.
- Taloon's damage is unremarkable and doesn't speed up these fights at all. Surely the fist is equally likely to do 1 damage to a Metal Slime as the Chain Sickle. I think it can be skipped, even if it's a nice springboard once you open the shop. So is anything from down in the cave though.
- I Winged to Bonmalmo to sell my armour first. Stay at their inn for 30 gold. I haggle 14xx for my first two Half Plates, 360 for the Chain Mail I scored, and after a few tries I suddenly get 1500 for the last Half Plate. I frameskip over to the item shop because I forgot to buy my Wing of Wyvern, and would have used it from that side of the castle, and after buying it I see my gold is 9959. Dang, almost enough for the shop...well, here's the new plan. I sell my Chain Sickle, Wing back to Endor, talk to the King, grab the hidden Lifeforce Nuts, open the shop, end segment. Looks like I'll be starting with the 375 Lifeforce Nuts...wait I did this all wrong. Should have sold the Lifeforce Nuts in Endor and started the Chain Sickle in the shop >_____<

Oh well. It looks like I removed half of Segment 16 in this test run! I'm assuming the actual run will be this malleable as well. Makes me lean toward SS a little more.

I recorded this alternate segment 16 as another savestate, btw.
chessjerk
2010-04-17 08:08:50 am
Nice progress Shiner! I'll have to go back and read through all of your trials and tribulations.

Now that I have more free time, I actually went and taped a run through the first chapter.

Segment 1 - 9:20

In retrospect, it wasn't too bad, but it could've been better. I actually got into too many battles in the cave the first time through, I think. Bought a Wooden Hat and 3 herbs and still had money left over.

Segment 2 - 9:37

Got the right amount of battles here, ended up with around 870 gold, so I sold everything for the Half Plate. Healie even killed an enemy with a critical, lol.

Segment 3 - 10:44

This took a lot of tries, naturally, although I have a feeling that this is going to be a lot easier than trying to pull off some miracles in Chapters 2 and 3. Got into only 7 battles on the way to the Sword of Malice and only failed to run once, I think. Got to level 7 on the way to Saro's Shadow, used all my herbs to heal up once I got there. Didn't get any criticals on Saro's Shadow, but did finish off the Eyeball with a critical. Also, Healie survived two full turns at 2 HP, and Ragnar got knocked down to 4 HP at one point.

Total Chapter 1 - 29:41

I think I can do better than this, though, but it is pretty good, since my target was 30 minutes. Any thoughts?

Now that I think about it, I should ask...when does timing start? My timing above started when I gain control of Ragnar and ended when I told the shaman I was not going to continue.