Dragon Warrior 4 (At the moment, planning)

Edit history:

FionordeQuester: 2010-04-29 02:42:00 am

2010-04-28 09:57:14 pm

Chessjerk, before I play test the rest of your route, you have to realize that my party is all set up the way they were at the end of your last PREVIOUS route.

Update 1, Segment 34 playtested!: I just ran this segment about six times, I was able to get 2-3 Metal Babble kills about half the time, and at the end of the sixth try, I was actually able to get 4! So yeah, I'd say 5 is perfectly viable, even if it is probably going to take a lot of resets. It's nowhere near as bad as what you'll have to do to get the Metal Babble Shield and Staff of Abacus...

Also, and this is directed at Shiner, I've looked back through the posts, wondering why I never realized why Chessjerk got more than one Metal Shield, and I've just realized something. You did suggest more Metal Shields, but the thing is, Chessjerk has been regularly refuting about 50% of your arguments ever since this thread has started, and even when you suggested he had three, he actually said no, that wasn't needed.

So with that in mind, I've just realized that he could've had an entirely different justification in mind when he decided to go for the second shield. I don't even remember whether or not I did read ALL of the thread before asking that question, so I still don't know whether or not I was being a dummy. I just felt like pointing that out, that's all.

Chessjerk, before I play test the rest of your route, you have to realize that my party is all set up the way they were at the end of your last PREVIOUS route.

Update 1, Segment 34 playtested!:  I just ran this segment about six times, I was able to get 2-3 Metal Babble kills about half the time, and at the end of the sixth try, I was actually able to get 4!  So yeah, I'd say 5 is perfectly viable, even if it is probably going to take a lot of resets.  It's nowhere near as bad as what you'll have to do to get the Metal Babble Shield and Staff of Abacus...

Also, and this is directed at Shiner, I've looked back through the posts, wondering why I never realized why Chessjerk got more than one Metal Shield, and I've just realized something.  You did suggest more Metal Shields, but the thing is, Chessjerk has been regularly refuting about 50% of your arguments ever since this thread has started, and even when you suggested he had three, he actually said [i]no[/i], that [i]wasn't needed[/i].

So with that in mind, I've just realized that he could've had an entirely different justification in mind when he decided to go for the second shield.  I don't even remember whether or not I did read ALL of the thread before asking that question, so I still don't know whether or not I was being a dummy.  I just felt like pointing that out, that's all.

FionordeQuester

2010-04-29 03:10:48 am

Update 2, Segments 35-36 playtested!: I didn't see anything wrong with Segment 35, it was supremely easy. Segment 36 was actually surprisingly difficult though considering how much grinding was done. I have to say, if there was one thing the game developers got right with this game, it was fair, balanced challenge that still managed to be quite hard. I love that in an RPG.

Still, it was fairly simple (when I say "surprisingly difficult", that doesn't necessarily mean it was actually hard, just HARDER then expected). Esturk took a few tries to figure out though, mainly because your "No MP-Defensive" strategy doesn't work at all. That however, surprisingly enough, is not as much of a problem as one might think, because despite that, Cristo actually DOES finally start getting his act together after the first 2-3 rounds of the fight. He'll usually waste a few turn casting Beat, but then he'll start using mainly healing spells and even using Increase, even to the point of using it 2-4 times a fight. After several tries, I've found that you can pretty much win this fight every time by following two rules...

1) Always leave the Tactics on Defensive, to encourage Cristo to do what he should be doing.
2) Always have the Hero use HealAll on whoever has the lowest HP, even if everyone is at full HP, because as it turns out, Esturk is pretty fast (although if the person you're healing IS at full health, you can get away with just HealMore).

Update 2, Segments 35-36 playtested!: I didn't see anything wrong with Segment 35, it was supremely easy.  Segment 36 was actually surprisingly difficult though considering how much grinding was done.  I have to say, if there was one thing the game developers got right with this game, it was fair, balanced challenge that still managed to be quite hard.  I love that in an RPG.

Still, it was fairly simple (when I say "surprisingly difficult", that doesn't necessarily mean it was actually hard, just HARDER then expected).  Esturk took a few tries to figure out though, mainly because your "No MP-Defensive" strategy doesn't work at all.  That however, surprisingly enough, is not as much of a problem as one might think, because despite that, Cristo actually DOES finally start getting his act together after the first 2-3 rounds of the fight.  He'll usually waste a few turn casting Beat, but then he'll start using mainly healing spells and even using Increase, even to the point of using it 2-4 times a fight.  After several tries, I've found that you can pretty much win this fight every time by following two rules...

1) Always leave the Tactics on Defensive, to encourage Cristo to do what he should be doing.
2) Always have the Hero use HealAll on whoever has the lowest HP, [i]even if everyone is at full HP[/i], because as it turns out, Esturk is pretty fast (although if the person you're healing IS at full health, you can get away with just HealMore).

FionordeQuester

2010-04-29 03:38:37 am

Update 3, Segment 37 playtested!: This was the one that was suppose to be hell right? Well, from what I've seen, you were worrying over nothing. Yeah, there are maybe one or two tough encounters, but nothing hellish. There is a fairly dangerous group of foes called the Red Cyclones, who can cast Infermost, and can do 30+ physical damage even to the Hero, but they're easily dispatched by Cristo's Defeat spell, as they seem especially susceptable to it (as it turns out, those spells are surprisingly awesome when your not fighting bosses).

The only other group that even comes close to that are the Chaos Hoppers, but you can safely just run from them, because all they can really do besides cast Chaos on you is to attack you with mediocre damage. Actually, I'd recommend running from all battles involving Chaose Hoppers.

I don't know where this healing spring you're talking about is. I never saw it throughout the whole trek.

chessjerk

2010-04-29 06:32:57 am

Quote from FionordeQuester:

So with that in mind, I've just realized that he could've had an entirely different justification in mind when he decided to go for the second shield. I don't even remember whether or not I did read ALL of the thread before asking that question, so I still don't know whether or not I was being a dummy. I just felt like pointing that out, that's all.

My justification for getting two shields was to keep Mara and Nara alive through the lighthouse. Also, in the beginning, when we hadn't figured out the best party to use, it was possible to have two members who could equip it. Now that we've pretty much got the final party set, and having found out I can survive the lighthouse with only one, I only get one.

Shiner got three of them to give to characters so they would USE them in battle to cast Fendspell. The problems with that strategy are (A) The non-Hero characters are dumb and probably won't use it when you want them to use it, and (B) since my strategy to kill most bosses relies on getting them to sleep, if they are sleeping, Fendspell is not needed.

Quote:

Esturk took a few tries to figure out though, mainly because your "No MP-Defensive" strategy doesn't work at all. That however, surprisingly enough, is not as much of a problem as one might think, because despite that, Cristo actually DOES finally start getting his act together after the first 2-3 rounds of the fight. He'll usually waste a few turn casting Beat, but then he'll start using mainly healing spells and even using Increase, even to the point of using it 2-4 times a fight. After several tries, I've found that you can pretty much win this fight every time by following two rules...

1) Always leave the Tactics on Defensive, to encourage Cristo to do what he should be doing.
2) Always have the Hero use HealAll on whoever has the lowest HP, even if everyone is at full HP, because as it turns out, Esturk is pretty fast (although if the person you're healing IS at full health, you can get away with just HealMore).

The point of my using the "No MP-Defensive strategy" is to get Cristo to attack the first turn (when Esturk is sleeping) and then switch to defensive to get him to cast Healmore when people are hurting or use Increase if Esturk is taking a deep breath to get ready for a more powerful attack.

I'm also quite sure I've never learned Healall for that battle, too. Maybe if I kill six Metal Babbles in the leveling segment I can get it in time?

Quote:

Update 3, Segment 37 playtested!: This was the one that was suppose to be hell right?

No, no, no. The Esturk segment is going to be hell (Segment 36). The World Tree segment (Segment 37) shouldn't be bad, like you said.

The healing spring I was referring to is in Esturk's palace.

[quote="FionordeQuester"]
So with that in mind, I've just realized that he could've had an entirely different justification in mind when he decided to go for the second shield.  I don't even remember whether or not I did read ALL of the thread before asking that question, so I still don't know whether or not I was being a dummy.  I just felt like pointing that out, that's all.
[/quote]

My justification for getting two shields was to keep Mara and Nara alive through the lighthouse. Also, in the beginning, when we hadn't figured out the best party to use, it was possible to have two members who could equip it. Now that we've pretty much got the final party set, and having found out I can survive the lighthouse with only one, I only get one.

Shiner got three of them to give to characters so they would USE them in battle to cast Fendspell. The problems with that strategy are (A) The non-Hero characters are dumb and probably won't use it when you want them to use it, and (B) since my strategy to kill most bosses relies on getting them to sleep, if they are sleeping, Fendspell is not needed.

[quote]Esturk took a few tries to figure out though, mainly because your "No MP-Defensive" strategy doesn't work at all.  That however, surprisingly enough, is not as much of a problem as one might think, because despite that, Cristo actually DOES finally start getting his act together after the first 2-3 rounds of the fight.  He'll usually waste a few turn casting Beat, but then he'll start using mainly healing spells and even using Increase, even to the point of using it 2-4 times a fight.  After several tries, I've found that you can pretty much win this fight every time by following two rules...

1) Always leave the Tactics on Defensive, to encourage Cristo to do what he should be doing.
2) Always have the Hero use HealAll on whoever has the lowest HP, even if everyone is at full HP, because as it turns out, Esturk is pretty fast (although if the person you're healing IS at full health, you can get away with just HealMore).[/quote]

The point of my using the "No MP-Defensive strategy" is to get Cristo to attack the first turn (when Esturk is sleeping) and then switch to defensive to get him to cast Healmore when people are hurting or use Increase if Esturk is taking a deep breath to get ready for a more powerful attack.

I'm also quite sure I've never learned Healall for that battle, too. Maybe if I kill six Metal Babbles in the leveling segment I can get it in time?

[quote]Update 3, Segment 37 playtested!: This was the one that was suppose to be hell right?[/quote]

No, no, no. The Esturk segment is going to be hell (Segment 36). The World Tree segment (Segment 37) shouldn't be bad, like you said.

The healing spring I was referring to is in Esturk's palace.

FionordeQuester

Edit history:

FionordeQuester: 2010-04-29 01:40:12 pm

2010-04-29 07:34:42 am

The point of my using the "No MP-Defensive strategy" is to get Cristo to attack the first turn (when Esturk is sleeping) and then switch to defensive to get him to cast Healmore when people are hurting or use Increase if Esturk is taking a deep breath to get ready for a more powerful attack.

Well, it sure didn't work for me. Cristo just immediatly used Beat after I tried that.

I'm also quite sure I've never learned Healall for that battle, too. Maybe if I kill six Metal Babbles in the leveling segment I can get it in time?

I only killed 5 Metal Babbles, although I think my levels might've been a bit higher than yours. It only took me 4 to reach Level 25 on my hero you see. It's also too bad, because HealAll was really helpful for me. Also, I doubt you'd need six, just get five, and then maybe go out of your way to get those Strength Seeds you're wondering about, to get HealAll as you're also powering up Alena? It shouldn't take more than 5 Metal Babbles and fighting every random encounter. It didn't for me.

[i]The point of my using the "No MP-Defensive strategy" is to get Cristo to attack the first turn (when Esturk is sleeping) and then switch to defensive to get him to cast Healmore when people are hurting or use Increase if Esturk is taking a deep breath to get ready for a more powerful attack.[/i]

Well, it sure didn't work for me.  Cristo just immediatly used Beat after I tried that.

[i]I'm also quite sure I've never learned Healall for that battle, too. Maybe if I kill six Metal Babbles in the leveling segment I can get it in time?[/i]

I only killed 5 Metal Babbles, although I think my levels might've been a bit higher than yours.  It only took me 4 to reach Level 25 on my hero you see.  It's also too bad, because HealAll was really helpful for me.  Also, I doubt you'd need six, just get five, and then maybe go out of your way to get those Strength Seeds you're wondering about, to get HealAll as you're also powering up Alena?  It shouldn't take more than 5 Metal Babbles and fighting every random encounter.  It didn't for me.

FionordeQuester

2010-04-29 03:40:10 pm

Update 4, every Segment except the one with the Necrosaro fight, playtested!: The Final Cave is pretty tough, but it's nothing you can't handle. Also, I think you're mistaken by using so many segments just to kill the bosses. They're not that hard, you can easily beat two per segment, I just did it on my first try.

I don't know why you're having so much trouble leveling up either. My Hero's Level 33 as of the last of the four guardians. How many of the fights are you avoiding? And don't forget that the King of Zenithia gives you an experience boost either.

FionordeQuester

2010-04-29 06:25:24 pm

Well, I just beat Necrosaro, and here are my levels...

Hero: Level 33, Ragnar: Level 33, Cristo: Level 34, Alena: Level 34

So, on that note, I have some good news and some bad news. The good news is that Necrosaro is beatable without ever needing to learn HealusAll, or grind, or use the Sword of Decimation (which I actually found to be worthless), or any of that. The bad news is that while Necrosaro is beatable, he's not EASILY beatable, and in fact, his final form is a real doozy if you're not properly prepared. Here's a breakdown of what I usually do...

Necrosaro 1st form: Make sure Ragnar does not have the Shield of Strength (you'll see why later). Put the Tactics on "Defensive" until Cristo uses Increase, then switch it back into "No MP". Heal with the Hero as needed.

Necrosaro 2nd form: Just go out on an all out offensive, using the Shield of Strength to heal the Hero whenever he manages to put Necrosaro to sleep (we're conserving his MP for later). Heal Cristo only when it's really really needed.

Necrosaro 3rd form: Second verse, same as the first.

Necrosaro 4th form: Carry on.

Necrosaro 5th form: Here is where your tactics begin to change a little. Use Transform to turn the Hero into Cristo and spam Increase, but still try not to heal Cristo or the others unless they need it (which they probably will more often now.

Necrosaro 6th form: Here is where you should just lose all restraint on your Hero's MP, and spam, just SPAM the Increase and HealUs spells like your life depended on it (which, in fact, it does if you want to have a decent chance at form 7). Whatever you do, try your darndest to have the others at Full HP by the time they kill this form, you could have all the luck in the world and you'd still not survive what's comin next if you don't have sufficient HP.

Necrosaro 7th form: If you're wondering why you shouldn't even bother restraining on the Hero's MP on the previous form, Necrosaro will remind you with a healthy dosage of Freezing Waves (which may or may not render Increase meaningless) making it so that the Hero will revert back to how he was, without Cristo's awesome spells. Switch the Tactics to "Defensive" and hope that Cristo at least does some good with what he has.

At this point, you shouldn't even be using MP with the Hero anymore until Necrosaro is asleep. Attack with all your might with the Lethargy sword and hope that Necrosaro sleeps long enough for you to get everyone healed up. If Cristo falls, leave him be, because his chances of surviving were already slimmer then jim to begin with. If Alena falls though, try to revive her, because her criticals are gonna be sorely needed to pop this sucker as fast as possible.

Really, I hate to admit it, but the battle is gonna be based a lot on luck, though not excessively so. It's certainly not necessary to grind anyways.

Well, I just beat Necrosaro, and here are my levels...

Hero: Level 33, Ragnar: Level 33, Cristo: Level 34, Alena: Level 34

So, on that note, I have some good news and some bad news.  The good news is that Necrosaro is beatable without ever needing to learn HealusAll, or grind, or use the Sword of Decimation (which I actually found to be worthless), or any of that.  The bad news is that while Necrosaro is beatable, he's not EASILY beatable, and in fact, his final form is a real doozy if you're not properly prepared.  Here's a breakdown of what I usually do...

Necrosaro 1st form: Make sure Ragnar does not have the Shield of Strength (you'll see why later).  Put the Tactics on "Defensive" until Cristo uses Increase, then switch it back into "No MP".  Heal with the Hero as needed.

Necrosaro 2nd form: Just go out on an all out offensive, using the Shield of Strength to heal the Hero whenever he manages to put Necrosaro to sleep (we're conserving his MP for later).  Heal Cristo only when it's really really needed.

Necrosaro 3rd form: Second verse, same as the first.

Necrosaro 4th form: Carry on.

Necrosaro 5th form: Here is where your tactics begin to change a little.  Use Transform to turn the Hero into Cristo and spam Increase, but still try not to heal Cristo or the others unless they need it (which they probably will more often now.

Necrosaro 6th form:  Here is where you should just lose all restraint on your Hero's MP, and spam, just SPAM the Increase and HealUs spells like your life depended on it (which, in fact, it does if you want to have a decent chance at form 7).  Whatever you do, try your darndest to have the others at Full HP by the time they kill this form, you could have all the luck in the world and you'd still not survive what's comin next if you don't have sufficient HP.

Necrosaro 7th form: If you're wondering why you shouldn't even bother restraining on the Hero's MP on the previous form, Necrosaro will remind you with a healthy dosage of Freezing Waves (which may or may not render Increase meaningless) making it so that the Hero will revert back to how he was, without Cristo's awesome spells.  Switch the Tactics to "Defensive" and hope that Cristo at least does some good with what he has.

At this point, you shouldn't even be using MP with the Hero anymore until Necrosaro is asleep.  Attack with all your might with the Lethargy sword and hope that Necrosaro sleeps long enough for you to get everyone healed up.  If Cristo falls, leave him be, because his chances of surviving were already slimmer then jim to begin with.  If Alena falls though, try to revive her, because her criticals are gonna be sorely needed to pop this sucker as fast as possible.

Really, I hate to admit it, but the battle is gonna be based a lot on luck, though not excessively so.  It's certainly not necessary to grind anyways.

chessjerk

2010-04-29 06:51:58 pm

Interesting stuff, FQ, good job.

I had some more ideas (they just keep coming to me!), tell me what you think:

Segment 25: I was thinking that there are Metal Slimes in the desert before you get to Konenbur. Maybe cut off Segment 25 at Branca after getting the Symbol of Faith and manipulate a Metal Slime kill after getting the wagon to ensure that the Hero learns Outside in time for the Magic Key cave? Might also make the lighthouse easier.

Segment 27: Instead of leaving Taloon alive, what if I leave Brey alive? His Snowstorm would make the Magic Key cave a hell of a lot easier to deal with, and since he will be totally unequipped anyway, killing him off before getting Panon should be a snap.

Segment 34: For the leveling segment, what if I do all of my leveling now to ensure I get to level 33/34 by the end? It would make Esturk easier (since I will be a higher level and will likely know Healall). Maybe go for a run through the cave to get the Staff of Transform with five Metal Babble kills, go out, save, then go back and get two or three or four more quick kills, and then I'll be good to go?

Segment 37/38: You said the Sword of Decimation didn't work very well against Necrosaro? What about against Esturk? Maybe I should stop by Konenbur at the end of 37, grab the sword, then in 38 I'll be able to up my damage against Esturk.

Was the problem that the Sword didn't work against Necrosaro, or that the impact of the defense drop was irrelevant?

Interesting stuff, FQ, good job.

I had some more ideas (they just keep coming to me!), tell me what you think:

Segment 25: I was thinking that there are Metal Slimes in the desert before you get to Konenbur. Maybe cut off Segment 25 at Branca after getting the Symbol of Faith and manipulate a Metal Slime kill after getting the wagon to ensure that the Hero learns Outside in time for the Magic Key cave? Might also make the lighthouse easier.

Segment 27: Instead of leaving Taloon alive, what if I leave Brey alive? His Snowstorm would make the Magic Key cave a hell of a lot easier to deal with, and since he will be totally unequipped anyway, killing him off before getting Panon should be a snap.

Segment 34: For the leveling segment, what if I do all of my leveling now to ensure I get to level 33/34 by the end? It would make Esturk easier (since I will be a higher level and will likely know Healall). Maybe go for a run through the cave to get the Staff of Transform with five Metal Babble kills, go out, save, then go back and get two or three or four more quick kills, and then I'll be good to go?

Segment 37/38: You said the Sword of Decimation didn't work very well against Necrosaro? What about against Esturk? Maybe I should stop by Konenbur at the end of 37, grab the sword, then in 38 I'll be able to up my damage against Esturk.

Was the problem that the Sword didn't work against Necrosaro, or that the impact of the defense drop was irrelevant?

chessjerk

Edit history:

chessjerk: 2010-05-09 06:02:32 pm

2010-04-30 05:57:17 pm

Chapter 4 taping done!

Segment 18 - 14:50

Get Medical Herb in first jar
Get 80 gold on bottom floor (left side, second row, right seat)
Get Strength Seed in second drawer
Buy Silk Robe for Mara
Walk to Kievs
Rest @ Kievs if necessary
Get nuts in right jar in house
Sell seed, nuts, Dancer Costume
Buy Feather Hats for both, equip
Buy Wing for Nara
Buy herbs for Mara
Go to cave
Get Orin (left fork)
Party: Orin/Nara/Mara
Get nuts, Sphere of Silence
Party: Nara/Mara/Orin
Remove armor, suicide (need level 5, 420 gold minimum)
Respawn in Monbaraba, reequip armor
Party: Orin/Nara/Mara
Revive Nara, save

A predictably annoying segment. Got to Kievs without a random, bought 5 herbs for Mara. Proceeded to do OK on the first two floors, but then had two consecutive Blazeghost battles on the bottom floor that I couldn't run from on the first turn. Still survived to get to Orin and fought just enough battles to get enough gold for a revive and a Scale Shield. Suicided in a timely manner with Nara at level 4 and Mara at level 5.

Segment 19 - 7:38

Walk to Haville
Buy Scale Shield (Nara), equip
Walk to Aktemto, rest
Get Mystic Acorns, Silver Tarot Cards (Nara) equip, Gunpowder Jar
Party: Nara/Mara/Orin
Suicide
Respawn in Monbaraba
Party: Orin/Nara/Mara
Revive Nara, save

A weird thing happened here, my first random on the way to Haville was a Rabidhound + three Hopper battle, and the Rabidhound dropped a Wing for me. So I used that to Wing to Kievs and avoid some walking.

Mostly, this was another annoying running away segment, mostly because I kept running into 5 or 6 Viceters who would block my escape and promptly kill me. This time, got three Rogue Wisper battles (although one of them blocked me from running three times while they just stood there doing nothing).

Segment 20 - 3:03

Wings to Haville
Get a battle with King Slime, draw card of stars for double gold
Go to Haville, rest
Sell Mara’s Feather Hat
Sell Nara’s Copper Sword, nuts, acorns
Buy Half Plate for Nara, equip
Save

Not too bad, the only flaw was that I miscalculated my gold and ended up 8 short of the 1200 needed for the Half Plate, so I sold Nara's Silk Robe to make up the difference. Hope she doesn't mind going naked in Chapter 5.

Segment 21 - 6:15

Walk to Keeleon, use Gunpowder Jar outside Chancellor’s room
Beat Balzack (Sphere of Silence/Sap, then Card of Stars/herbs)
Lose to Keeleon (can’t win)
Get Boarding Pass
Return to Haville, get on ship
Go down, talk to girl in top room only
Talk to the captain

Pretty much just as expected. Nara managed to draw the Card of Justice, the Card of Strength (on herself) and the Card of the Stars. Mara also got a dodge on Balzack to avoid death, so Nara and Orin proceeded to pummel Balzack to death easily.

Total Chapter 4 - 31:46

Total Chapters 1 thru 4 - 2:40:57

Chapter 4 taping done!

Segment 18 - 14:50

Get Medical Herb in first jar
Get 80 gold on bottom floor (left side, second row, right seat)
Get Strength Seed in second drawer
Buy Silk Robe for Mara
Walk to Kievs
Rest @ Kievs if necessary
Get nuts in right jar in house
Sell seed, nuts, Dancer Costume
Buy Feather Hats for both, equip
Buy Wing for Nara
Buy herbs for Mara
Go to cave
Get Orin (left fork)
Party: Orin/Nara/Mara
Get nuts, Sphere of Silence
Party: Nara/Mara/Orin
Remove armor, suicide (need level 5, 420 gold minimum)
Respawn in Monbaraba, reequip armor
Party: Orin/Nara/Mara
Revive Nara, save

A predictably annoying segment. Got to Kievs without a random, bought 5 herbs for Mara. Proceeded to do OK on the first two floors, but then had two consecutive Blazeghost battles on the bottom floor that I couldn't run from on the first turn. Still survived to get to Orin and fought just enough battles to get enough gold for a revive and a Scale Shield. Suicided in a timely manner with Nara at level 4 and Mara at level 5.

Segment 19 - 7:38

Walk to Haville
Buy Scale Shield (Nara), equip
Walk to Aktemto, rest
Get Mystic Acorns, Silver Tarot Cards (Nara) equip, Gunpowder Jar
Party: Nara/Mara/Orin
Suicide
Respawn in Monbaraba
Party: Orin/Nara/Mara
Revive Nara, save

A weird thing happened here, my first random on the way to Haville was a Rabidhound + three Hopper battle, and the Rabidhound dropped a Wing for me. So I used that to Wing to Kievs and avoid some walking.

Mostly, this was another annoying running away segment, mostly because I kept running into 5 or 6 Viceters who would block my escape and promptly kill me. This time, got three Rogue Wisper battles (although one of them blocked me from running three times while they just stood there doing nothing).

Segment 20 - 3:03

Wings to Haville
Get a battle with King Slime, draw card of stars for double gold
Go to Haville, rest
Sell Mara’s Feather Hat
Sell Nara’s Copper Sword, nuts, acorns
Buy Half Plate for Nara, equip
Save

Not too bad, the only flaw was that I miscalculated my gold and ended up 8 short of the 1200 needed for the Half Plate, so I sold Nara's Silk Robe to make up the difference. Hope she doesn't mind going naked in Chapter 5.

Segment 21 - 6:15

Walk to Keeleon, use Gunpowder Jar outside Chancellor’s room
Beat Balzack (Sphere of Silence/Sap, then Card of Stars/herbs)
Lose to Keeleon (can’t win)
Get Boarding Pass
Return to Haville, get on ship
Go down, talk to girl in top room only
Talk to the captain

Pretty much just as expected. Nara managed to draw the Card of Justice, the Card of Strength (on herself) and the Card of the Stars. Mara also got a dodge on Balzack to avoid death, so Nara and Orin proceeded to pummel Balzack to death easily.

Total Chapter 4 - 31:46

Total Chapters 1 thru 4 - 2:40:57

FionordeQuester

2010-05-02 06:44:34 pm

Segment 25: I was thinking that there are Metal Slimes in the desert before you get to Konenbur. Maybe cut off Segment 25 at Branca after getting the Symbol of Faith and manipulate a Metal Slime kill after getting the wagon to ensure that the Hero learns Outside in time for the Magic Key cave? Might also make the lighthouse easier.

Why? You already said you're going to have Brey helping you out, who learns Outside at a measly Level 8. And even if you didn't, I didn't have a problem getting the Hero to learn Outside. I just don't like the idea of warping to Branca because of the 10-20 seconds wasted (counting the intro when you start up the game again on the next segment). If you're worried, I would just try to encounter two Metal Slimes on the Lighthouse instead of just one.

Segment 27: Instead of leaving Taloon alive, what if I leave Brey alive? His Snowstorm would make the Magic Key cave a hell of a lot easier to deal with, and since he will be totally unequipped anyway, killing him off before getting Panon should be a snap.

Sounds like a great idea, as long as he can stand the heat of getting hit. Test that out first, to see if he even lasts long enough in the cave (what I like to do is savestate at the entrance, and then run through it about 10 times)

Segment 34: For the leveling segment, what if I do all of my leveling now to ensure I get to level 33/34 by the end? It would make Esturk easier (since I will be a higher level and will likely know Healall). Maybe go for a run through the cave to get the Staff of Transform with five Metal Babble kills, go out, save, then go back and get two or three or four more quick kills, and then I'll be good to go?

That'll take WAY too long! Even when I was going through at Level 23, the Hero needed at least two Metal Babbles just to go up one level. Assuming that you're getting up to my levels, that's around 16 Metal Babbles you're going to have to kill.

Segment 37/38: You said the Sword of Decimation didn't work very well against Necrosaro? What about against Esturk? Maybe I should stop by Konenbur at the end of 37, grab the sword, then in 38 I'll be able to up my damage against Esturk.

Was the problem that the Sword didn't work against Necrosaro, or that the impact of the defense drop was irrelevant?

The problem was that I could never get it to work.

[i]Segment 25: I was thinking that there are Metal Slimes in the desert before you get to Konenbur. Maybe cut off Segment 25 at Branca after getting the Symbol of Faith and manipulate a Metal Slime kill after getting the wagon to ensure that the Hero learns Outside in time for the Magic Key cave? Might also make the lighthouse easier.[/i]

Why?  You already said you're going to have Brey helping you out, who learns Outside at a measly Level 8.  And even if you didn't, I didn't have a problem getting the Hero to learn Outside.  I just don't like the idea of warping to Branca because of the 10-20 seconds wasted (counting the intro when you start up the game again on the next segment).  If you're worried, I would just try to encounter two Metal Slimes on the Lighthouse instead of just one.

[i]Segment 27: Instead of leaving Taloon alive, what if I leave Brey alive? His Snowstorm would make the Magic Key cave a hell of a lot easier to deal with, and since he will be totally unequipped anyway, killing him off before getting Panon should be a snap.[/i]

Sounds like a great idea, as long as he can stand the heat of getting hit.  Test that out first, to see if he even lasts long enough in the cave (what I like to do is savestate at the entrance, and then run through it about 10 times)

[i]Segment 34: For the leveling segment, what if I do all of my leveling now to ensure I get to level 33/34 by the end? It would make Esturk easier (since I will be a higher level and will likely know Healall). Maybe go for a run through the cave to get the Staff of Transform with five Metal Babble kills, go out, save, then go back and get two or three or four more quick kills, and then I'll be good to go?[/i]

That'll take WAY too long!  Even when I was going through at Level 23, the Hero needed at least two Metal Babbles just to go up one level.  Assuming that you're getting up to my levels, that's around 16 Metal Babbles you're going to have to kill.

[i]Segment 37/38: You said the Sword of Decimation didn't work very well against Necrosaro? What about against Esturk? Maybe I should stop by Konenbur at the end of 37, grab the sword, then in 38 I'll be able to up my damage against Esturk.[/i]

[i]Was the problem that the Sword didn't work against Necrosaro, or that the impact of the defense drop was irrelevant?[/i]

The problem was that I could never get it to work.

chessjerk

2010-05-03 06:33:49 am

Quote from FionordeQuester:

Segment 25: I was thinking that there are Metal Slimes in the desert before you get to Konenbur. Maybe cut off Segment 25 at Branca after getting the Symbol of Faith and manipulate a Metal Slime kill after getting the wagon to ensure that the Hero learns Outside in time for the Magic Key cave? Might also make the lighthouse easier.

Why? You already said you're going to have Brey helping you out, who learns Outside at a measly Level 8. And even if you didn't, I didn't have a problem getting the Hero to learn Outside. I just don't like the idea of warping to Branca because of the 10-20 seconds wasted (counting the intro when you start up the game again on the next segment). If you're worried, I would just try to encounter two Metal Slimes on the Lighthouse instead of just one.

Good point. All I have to do is make sure Brey survives the Magic Key cave and he can die on the way to Stancia.

Quote:

Segment 34: For the leveling segment, what if I do all of my leveling now to ensure I get to level 33/34 by the end? It would make Esturk easier (since I will be a higher level and will likely know Healall). Maybe go for a run through the cave to get the Staff of Transform with five Metal Babble kills, go out, save, then go back and get two or three or four more quick kills, and then I'll be good to go?

That'll take WAY too long! Even when I was going through at Level 23, the Hero needed at least two Metal Babbles just to go up one level. Assuming that you're getting up to my levels, that's around 16 Metal Babbles you're going to have to kill.

Sorry I should have specified. What I meant was level up enough now so that by the end OF THE GAME I get to level 33/34 (not get to level 33/34 in this segment). My intention was to do all the leveling at once and not do some leveling now and then go do some leveling later.

[quote="FionordeQuester"]
[i]Segment 25: I was thinking that there are Metal Slimes in the desert before you get to Konenbur. Maybe cut off Segment 25 at Branca after getting the Symbol of Faith and manipulate a Metal Slime kill after getting the wagon to ensure that the Hero learns Outside in time for the Magic Key cave? Might also make the lighthouse easier.[/i]

Why?  You already said you're going to have Brey helping you out, who learns Outside at a measly Level 8.  And even if you didn't, I didn't have a problem getting the Hero to learn Outside.  I just don't like the idea of warping to Branca because of the 10-20 seconds wasted (counting the intro when you start up the game again on the next segment).  If you're worried, I would just try to encounter two Metal Slimes on the Lighthouse instead of just one.[/quote]

Good point. All I have to do is make sure Brey survives the Magic Key cave and he can die on the way to Stancia.

[quote][i]Segment 34: For the leveling segment, what if I do all of my leveling now to ensure I get to level 33/34 by the end? It would make Esturk easier (since I will be a higher level and will likely know Healall). Maybe go for a run through the cave to get the Staff of Transform with five Metal Babble kills, go out, save, then go back and get two or three or four more quick kills, and then I'll be good to go?[/i]

That'll take WAY too long!  Even when I was going through at Level 23, the Hero needed at least two Metal Babbles just to go up one level.  Assuming that you're getting up to my levels, that's around 16 Metal Babbles you're going to have to kill.[/quote]

Sorry I should have specified. What I meant was level up enough now so that by the end OF THE GAME I get to level 33/34 (not get to level 33/34 in this segment). My intention was to do all the leveling at once and not do some leveling now and then go do some leveling later.

FionordeQuester

2010-05-03 10:08:04 am

Sorry I should have specified. What I meant was level up enough now so that by the end OF THE GAME I get to level 33/34 (not get to level 33/34 in this segment). My intention was to do all the leveling at once and not do some leveling now and then go do some leveling later.

I think my levels might have been a bit ahead of yours, but I honestly think that what you have going is perfectly fine already. My Hero was Level 25 by the end of the Metal Babble grinding segment, and ended up at Level 33 just by playing through the game naturally. I never did anymore grinding, and I don't think it's gonna make much of a difference if you end up at say, Level 32/33 instead. Seriously.

chessjerk

2010-05-05 08:23:04 pm

Well, here's a little more progress, but some concerns.

Chapter 5

Segment 22 - 4:28

Talk to father
Talk to mother
Wait for fighting
Search where Celia was, get Feather Hat
In cave, get bonus coins
Go to Endor
Talk to Nara
Move Half Plate and Scale Shield to Hero
Save

I gave myself five tries each segment to get the free coins going through the tunnel. On this attempt, I get it on the third try.

Segment 23 - 3:14

Go to casino, bet 100 at poker, double up nine times to 51,200 at poker
Talk to Mara
Buy Staff of Jubilation, Metal Babble Shield for Mara
Move Feather Hat from Hero to Mara
Party order Mara/Hero/Nara, reequip
Mara: Jubilation/Silk/Babble/Feather, herbs
Hero: Copper/Half/Scale/Leather, Basic Clothes
Nara: Tarot/Silk/none/Feather, Gunpowder Jar, Boarding Pass
Save

I gave myself some leeway here, too, by playing until I win a hand, then resetting if I lose on the double-ups. Here, I got two pair on the fifth hand and proceeded to own the double-ups for 51,200 coins. Slight screw up when I tried to buy a Magic Potion at the store, not too bad.

My concerns so far stem from my lack of optimization on previous segments, especially those segments where I am running from enemies to accomplish a goal while way underleveled. Here's some stats so far:

Segment #/Battles Run From/Failed Running Attempts

2/1/1
3/12/11
5/7/5
6/3/1
7/10/4
8/1/0
18/13/10
19/10/9
22/3/1

Total extra battles encountered: 60

Total failed running attempts: 42

Obviously, the biggest offenders are 3 (Ragnar running through the tower to the SOM), 18 (Mara and Nara running to Orin), and 19 (Mara and Nara running through the mine). These segments were painfully annoying and I settled on my first successful attempt through each area. If I estimate about 3 seconds lost per failed running attempt, that adds up to almost 2 minutes lost so far. Alternatively, If I estimate about 8 seconds lost per battle I do not even want to encounter in the first place (something that I cannot do perfectly anyway), then I've lost about 8 minutes so far.

Looking ahead, I have a few more segments where running will be necessary (26 - lighthouse, 29 - magic key cave, 31 - shrine of breaking waves, to name a few).

I guess my question is, should I start over and try to optimize the earlier running segments? Or just press on and hope the future verifiers of this run overlook the numerous failed running attempts that look really bad in a run like this?

I'd like some input before I continue. Thanks.

Well, here's a little more progress, but some concerns.

Chapter 5

Segment 22 - 4:28

Talk to father
Talk to mother
Wait for fighting
Search where Celia was, get Feather Hat
In cave, get bonus coins
Go to Endor
Talk to Nara
Move Half Plate and Scale Shield to Hero
Save

I gave myself five tries each segment to get the free coins going through the tunnel. On this attempt, I get it on the third try.

Segment 23 - 3:14

Go to casino, bet 100 at poker, double up nine times to 51,200 at poker
Talk to Mara
Buy Staff of Jubilation, Metal Babble Shield for Mara
Move Feather Hat from Hero to Mara
Party order Mara/Hero/Nara, reequip
Mara: Jubilation/Silk/Babble/Feather, herbs
Hero: Copper/Half/Scale/Leather, Basic Clothes
Nara: Tarot/Silk/none/Feather, Gunpowder Jar, Boarding Pass
Save

I gave myself some leeway here, too, by playing until I win a hand, then resetting if I lose on the double-ups. Here, I got two pair on the fifth hand and proceeded to own the double-ups for 51,200 coins. Slight screw up when I tried to buy a Magic Potion at the store, not too bad.

My concerns so far stem from my lack of optimization on previous segments, especially those segments where I am running from enemies to accomplish a goal while way underleveled. Here's some stats so far:

Segment #/Battles Run From/Failed Running Attempts

2/1/1
3/12/11
5/7/5
6/3/1
7/10/4
8/1/0
18/13/10
19/10/9
22/3/1

Total extra battles encountered: 60

Total failed running attempts: 42

Obviously, the biggest offenders are 3 (Ragnar running through the tower to the SOM), 18 (Mara and Nara running to Orin), and 19 (Mara and Nara running through the mine). These segments were painfully annoying and I settled on my first successful attempt through each area. If I estimate about 3 seconds lost per failed running attempt, that adds up to almost 2 minutes lost so far. Alternatively, If I estimate about 8 seconds lost per battle I do not even want to encounter in the first place (something that I cannot do perfectly anyway), then I've lost about 8 minutes so far.

Looking ahead, I have a few more segments where running will be necessary (26 - lighthouse, 29 - magic key cave, 31 - shrine of breaking waves, to name a few).

I guess my question is, should I start over and try to optimize the earlier running segments? Or just press on and hope the future verifiers of this run overlook the numerous failed running attempts that look really bad in a run like this?

I'd like some input before I continue. Thanks.

FionordeQuester

2010-05-05 08:32:19 pm

Even if it puts off the verifiers in some way, there have been many cases where they have overlooked it because of the rest of the run looking pretty tight. 2 minutes isn't really that much as long as the rest of the run is as awesome as you could make it.

chessjerk

2010-05-09 06:16:10 pm

Some more progress here. I ended up going through segment 27 and was unsatisfied with the result, but unfortunately my backup save was after segment 22. So I had to redo the casino again. Sad

Segment 23 - 2:59

Go to casino, bet 100 at poker, double up nine times to 51,200 at poker
Talk to Mara
Buy Staff of Jubilation, Metal Babble Shield for Mara
Move Feather Hat from Hero to Mara
Party order Mara/Hero/Nara, reequip
Mara: Jubilation/Silk/Babble/Feather, herbs
Hero: Copper/Half/Scale/Leather, Basic Clothes
Nara: Tarot/Silk/none/Feather, Gunpowder Jar, Boarding Pass
Save

After being dealt a straight flush (!) and four of a kind (TWICE!) and not winning the double ups any of those times, I finally beat my time from before by fifteen seconds or so.

Played until the sixth hand, where I got a full house and doubled up from there.

Segment 24 - 5:41

Go to Statuette cave, get Broad Sword (Hero)
Kill a Metal Slime
Outside, Return to Branca, rest, save

Ran into a Metal Slime before getting the Broad Sword, it ran away. Next random after the sword was a Metal Slime, and it died in one round.

Segment 25 - 12:15

Walk to cave, heal Hero before losing party
Fight enemies, healing in between battles
Party: Mara/Hero/Nara
Get Symbol of Faith, walk out of cave
Return to Branca
Walk to desert
Get wagon
Party: Mara/Hector/Hero/Nara
Walk to Konenber, rest
Get two Small Medals, inside each ship, bottom floor, lower drawers
Save

Awesome segment here. Had no issues with the solo battles in the cave, and managed a Metal Slime kill in the desert.

Segment 26 - 18:41

Go to tower, skip treasure
Beat boss (Offensive - Nara uses Sleep, Mara uses Bang, Hero Expels the Flamers)
Throw Fire of Serenity into flame
Return to Konenber, rest
Talk to Taloon, board ship
Party: Mara/Hero/Taloon/Nara
Move one SOM from Taloon to Mara/Nara/Hero, equip on Hero
Sail to Mintos
Sell Taloon’s 3 extra SOM
Sell Hero’s Copper Sword, Basic Clothes, Broad Sword
Get Small Medal (left of well)
Walk to shrine east of Mintos (one Small Medal in back)
Walk to Soretta, rest, save

Almost got a Metal Slime kill here too, but didn't. Oh well. In the boss battle, Expel worked as expected on the Flamers, and no one was ever near death.

Segment 27 - 10:10

Go to cave, get Robe of Serenity, 800 gold, Padequia Seed (death is OK for Nara/Taloon)
Outside, Return to Soretta, talk to King to get root
Return to Mintos
Sell Mara’s Silk Robe
Sell Hero’s Leather Hat, Scale Shield, Half Plate, Robe of Serenity
Sell Taloon’s Iron Apron
Sell Nara’s Tarot Cards, Feather, SOM
Give root to Cristo, get Alena/Cristo/Brey
Go upstairs, Return to Soretta
Move Mara’s Jubilation, Babble Shield and SOM to Cristo
Move Mara's Feather Hat to Alena
Move Taloon’s SOM to Brey
Reequip Cristo & Alena
Form team (Mara/Nara/Taloon)
Save

Taloon died on the way to the Seed, which makes killing off Mara and Nara easier in the next segment.

Segment 28 - 5:38

Return to Mintos
Use No MP, suicide
Form team (Hero/Cristo/Alena/Brey)
Sail SSW to Riverton, get Small Medal, rest for daytime?
Buy Dragon Mail, Dragon Shield, Iron Mask for Hero
Buy Sacred Robe, Iron Helmet for Cristo
Reequip Hero and Cristo
Sail W, then S to Monbaraba
Rest, save
Hero: SOM/Dragon/Dragon/Mask
Cristo: Jubilation/Sacred/Babble/Helmet, SOM
Alena: Iron/Chain/Feather, Thief Key
Brey: none/none/none/none, SOM

Something happened here and the next segment that I had not anticipated concerning where to dock the ship on Monbaraba. When loading from a save, the ship moves to where it would be had you just used Return to get there, so my plan of docking to the west of Monbaraba turned out to be useless. Live and learn, I suppose.

Segment 29 - 8:58

Walk N to cave
Get Lamp of Darkness, press switch
Get Small Medal (left jar), Magic Key
Outside, Return to Endor, use Lamp
Get Pink Leotard (Alena), Small Medal (right drawer), equip
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Not too bad. Brey died near the end of the cave having used up most of his MP anyway.

Total time so far - 3:49:47

Some more progress here. I ended up going through segment 27 and was unsatisfied with the result, but unfortunately my backup save was after segment 22. So I had to redo the casino again. :(

Segment 23 - 2:59

Go to casino, bet 100 at poker, double up nine times to 51,200 at poker
Talk to Mara
Buy Staff of Jubilation, Metal Babble Shield for Mara
Move Feather Hat from Hero to Mara
Party order Mara/Hero/Nara, reequip
Mara: Jubilation/Silk/Babble/Feather, herbs
Hero: Copper/Half/Scale/Leather, Basic Clothes
Nara: Tarot/Silk/none/Feather, Gunpowder Jar, Boarding Pass
Save

After being dealt a straight flush (!) and four of a kind (TWICE!) and not winning the double ups any of those times, I finally beat my time from before by fifteen seconds or so.

Played until the sixth hand, where I got a full house and doubled up from there.

Segment 24 - 5:41

Go to Statuette cave, get Broad Sword (Hero)
Kill a Metal Slime
Outside, Return to Branca, rest, save

Ran into a Metal Slime before getting the Broad Sword, it ran away. Next random after the sword was a Metal Slime, and it died in one round.

Segment 25 - 12:15

Walk to cave, heal Hero before losing party
Fight enemies, healing in between battles
Party: Mara/Hero/Nara
Get Symbol of Faith, walk out of cave
Return to Branca
Walk to desert
Get wagon
Party: Mara/Hector/Hero/Nara
Walk to Konenber, rest
Get two Small Medals, inside each ship, bottom floor, lower drawers
Save

Awesome segment here. Had no issues with the solo battles in the cave, and managed a Metal Slime kill in the desert.

Segment 26 - 18:41

Go to tower, skip treasure
Beat boss (Offensive - Nara uses Sleep, Mara uses Bang, Hero Expels the Flamers)
Throw Fire of Serenity into flame
Return to Konenber, rest
Talk to Taloon, board ship
Party: Mara/Hero/Taloon/Nara
Move one SOM from Taloon to Mara/Nara/Hero, equip on Hero
Sail to Mintos
Sell Taloon’s 3 extra SOM
Sell Hero’s Copper Sword, Basic Clothes, Broad Sword
Get Small Medal (left of well)
Walk to shrine east of Mintos (one Small Medal in back)
Walk to Soretta, rest, save

Almost got a Metal Slime kill here too, but didn't. Oh well. In the boss battle, Expel worked as expected on the Flamers, and no one was ever near death.

Segment 27 - 10:10

Go to cave, get Robe of Serenity, 800 gold, Padequia Seed (death is OK for Nara/Taloon)
Outside, Return to Soretta, talk to King to get root
Return to Mintos
Sell Mara’s Silk Robe
Sell Hero’s Leather Hat, Scale Shield, Half Plate, Robe of Serenity
Sell Taloon’s Iron Apron
Sell Nara’s Tarot Cards, Feather, SOM
Give root to Cristo, get Alena/Cristo/Brey
Go upstairs, Return to Soretta
Move Mara’s Jubilation, Babble Shield and SOM to Cristo
Move Mara's Feather Hat to Alena
Move Taloon’s SOM to Brey
Reequip Cristo & Alena
Form team (Mara/Nara/Taloon)
Save

Taloon died on the way to the Seed, which makes killing off Mara and Nara easier in the next segment.

Segment 28 - 5:38

Return to Mintos
Use No MP, suicide
Form team (Hero/Cristo/Alena/Brey)	
Sail SSW to Riverton, get Small Medal, rest for daytime?
Buy Dragon Mail, Dragon Shield, Iron Mask for Hero
Buy Sacred Robe, Iron Helmet for Cristo
Reequip Hero and Cristo
Sail W, then S to Monbaraba
Rest, save
Hero: SOM/Dragon/Dragon/Mask
Cristo: Jubilation/Sacred/Babble/Helmet, SOM
Alena: Iron/Chain/Feather, Thief Key
Brey: none/none/none/none, SOM

Something happened here and the next segment that I had not anticipated concerning where to dock the ship on Monbaraba. When loading from a save, the ship moves to where it would be had you just used Return to get there, so my plan of docking to the west of Monbaraba turned out to be useless. Live and learn, I suppose.

Segment 29 - 8:58

Walk N to cave
Get Lamp of Darkness, press switch
Get Small Medal (left jar), Magic Key
Outside, Return to Endor, use Lamp
Get Pink Leotard (Alena), Small Medal (right drawer), equip
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Not too bad. Brey died near the end of the cave having used up most of his MP anyway.

Total time so far - 3:49:47

chessjerk

2010-05-15 08:50:00 pm

OK, I'm really fucking annoyed right now. Here's why (long rant coming up):

I just taped my segment where I beat Esturk. Here's how the battle went:

1st turn, Use No MP tactics
Alena attacks twice (one critical), Esturk wakes up, CJ attacks and puts him back to sleep, Cristo and Ragnar attack

2nd turn
Alena attacks twice, Esturk wakes up, Cristo uses the Staff of Jubilation (Esturk smiles), CJ and Ragnar attack

3rd turn
Cristo attacks, Esturk loses his turn due to smiling, Alena attacks twice, Ragnar and CJ attack

4th turn, change tactics to Defensive
Alena attacks twice, Cristo casts Upper on CJ, Esturk attacks Ragnar and uses his freezing waves, CJ and Ragnar attack

5th turn
Alena attacks twice (one critical), Cristo and CJ attack, Esturks attacks Alena and attacks everyone with a blizzard, Ragnar attacks and kills him!

Pretty sweet, if you ask me. I don't think I ever killed him that fast in my practice runs. I easily escape the palace, return to Riverton, get the balloon, then go to Soretta and save.

Unfortunately, I then go back and review the recording. When I cast Outside to escape from Aktemto, the video skips ahead to the point in which I was saving in Soretta (skipping the minute and a half or so I spend getting the balloon in Riverton).

Obviously, I have a backup save so I can try again, but I'm just so annoyed at losing this great run through a VERY tough segment that I want to throw my old DVD recorder out the window and buy a new one.

/rant

Time for a break. I'm going on vacation in a few days. I was hoping to get this done before I leave, but now it definitely looks like I won't be able to.

OK, I'm really fucking annoyed right now. Here's why (long rant coming up):

I just taped my segment where I beat Esturk. Here's how the battle went:

1st turn, Use No MP tactics
Alena attacks twice (one critical), Esturk wakes up, CJ attacks and puts him back to sleep, Cristo and Ragnar attack

2nd turn
Alena attacks twice, Esturk wakes up, Cristo uses the Staff of Jubilation (Esturk smiles), CJ and Ragnar attack

3rd turn
Cristo attacks, Esturk loses his turn due to smiling, Alena attacks twice, Ragnar and CJ attack

4th turn, change tactics to Defensive
Alena attacks twice, Cristo casts Upper on CJ, Esturk attacks Ragnar and uses his freezing waves, CJ and Ragnar attack

5th turn
Alena attacks twice (one critical), Cristo and CJ attack, Esturks attacks Alena and attacks everyone with a blizzard, Ragnar attacks and kills him!

Pretty sweet, if you ask me. I don't think I ever killed him that fast in my practice runs. I easily escape the palace, return to Riverton, get the balloon, then go to Soretta and save.

Unfortunately, I then go back and review the recording. When I cast Outside to escape from Aktemto, the video skips ahead to the point in which I was saving in Soretta (skipping the minute and a half or so I spend getting the balloon in Riverton).

Obviously, I have a backup save so I can try again, but I'm just so annoyed at losing this great run through a VERY tough segment that I want to throw my old DVD recorder out the window and buy a new one.

/rant

Time for a break. I'm going on vacation in a few days. I was hoping to get this done before I leave, but now it definitely looks like I won't be able to.

FionordeQuester

2010-05-15 08:51:28 pm

Dang, that stinks. Sorry bout that man!

ShinerCCC

Edit history:

ShinerCCC: 2010-05-16 11:49:35 pm

2010-05-16 04:28:28 pm

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

Quote:

Not too bad, the only flaw was that I miscalculated my gold and ended up 8 short of the 1200 needed for the Half Plate, so I sold Nara's Silk Robe to make up the difference. Hope she doesn't mind going naked in Chapter 5.

CJ doesn't mind. *Quagmire head nod*

Soldier on, chessjerk!

I'm too busy to do some SS test runs of this game right now, so if anyone comes up with a route post it here!

FionordeQuester

2010-05-16 04:34:56 pm

I've actually been thinking about a route for this, mainly because I'm dissatisfied with having to luck your way to getting a Small Babble Shield. However, it's incomplete at the moment.

chessjerk

2010-05-16 07:10:58 pm

Well, I suppose that's it for a bit. My DVD recorder is officially borked. I recorded another (much-slower) run through Esturk, and the DVD recorder again decided to screw up, this time on the second floor of the Aktemto mine. This run is officially on hold until I can procure myself a working DVD recorder.

Here's my progress up to now:

Segment 30 - 11:28

Return to Endor
Sail S to Old Man’s Hut (one Small Medal, right jar)
Sail S to Haville, leave
Sail W to Aktemto, leave
Sail N to Seaside Village (one Small Medal in front of statue in daytime)
Sail N to Santeem, leave
Sail N, then E to Stancia
Get 2 Small Medals (stairs to right, 2nd jar; in back of castle, 2nd drawer)
Talk to old man on 2nd floor
Return to Monbaraba, get Panon
Return to Konenbur
Party: Hero/Cristo/Panon/Alena
Sail E, then N to Rosaville
Sell Hero’s SOM
Sell Cristo’s Wayfarer’s, Copper, SOM
Sell Alena’s Chain Mail, Wooden Hat
Sell Brey’s SOM
Buy Sword of Lethargy (Hero), equip
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Had a long battle in the ocean vs. 7 Man O' Wars and got into six (!) battles walking to Stancia (with one failed run and one fought enemy), otherwise OK.

Segment 31 - 5:56

Return to Santeem
Sail to cave, get 1 Small Medal and Zenithian Armor
Walk back to ship, THEN cast Outside (lose wagon otherwise)
Sail to king, get 2 Swords of Miracles (Hero/Cristo), equip Cristo only
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Realized that Santeem is actually closer to the shrine than Rosaville. Had two failed run attempts, but they were against two Fury Faces and a single Maskan.

Segment 32 - 5:18

Return to Haville, walk to Keeleon, kill Keeleon
Return to Stancia, party: Panon/Hero, get Zenithian Helm
Return to Soretta
Party: Hero/Ragnar/Cristo/Alena
Move Sword of Miracles, Dragon Mail/Shield and Iron Mask from Hero to Ragnar
Move Ragnar’s Scale Shield to Hero
Move Ragnar’s SOM, Half Plate to Nara, reequip
Hero: Lethargy/Zenithian/Scale/Zenithian
Ragnar: Miracles/Dragon/Dragon/Mask
Cristo: Miracles/Sacred/Babble/Iron
Alena: Iron/Leotard/Feather
Rest, save

Keeleon got one attack off on CJ, but that was it. He died in five rounds.

Segment 33 - 9:13

Return to Rosaville
Sell CJ’s Full Plate
Sell Ragnar’s SOM
Buy Stiletto for Alena, equip
Return to Santeem, kill Balzack
Get Magma Staff, give to Hero
Return to Rosaville
Sail to Gardenbur
Party: Hero/Nara
Get Fire Claw
Get arrested
Walk out
Party: Hero/Ragnar/Cristo/Alena
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Alena was doing crap damage to Balzack anyway, so I opted to go for Stiletto Earrings to double her critical chances. She repaid me with a critical on the second hit. Balzack slept the entire fight and never got an attack off. I was pleased to witness this action line at the end:

"Alena attacks! 4 Damage Points to Balzack! Balzack was defeated." Smiley

I did have another failed run from 4 Savnucks on the way to Gardenbur and two failed runs from 3 Chillanodons, bleh. I only had four total randoms on the way to Gardenbur, so that was good.

Segment 34 - 10:56

Return to Gardenbur
Move Fire Claw from Hero to Alena, equip
Go to cave, left, left, up, down, to second floor
Second floor, left, down
Kill Bakor (Defensive)
Return to Gardenbur
Talk to Queen for Final Key, right basement for Zenithian Shield, walk out
Return to Soretta, rest, save

I kept trying to kill a Metal Babble on the way to the cave, but I could never find any, so I gave up. Only got into six randoms in the cave, all fightable ones (in other words, no Dragonits). Bakor lasted six or seven rounds, which I thought was odd since Alena got two critical hits. Cristo used Upper on CJ, Stopspell on Bakor, and Increase, which caused a charged hit from Bakor to do a whopping 14 points of damage to CJ. Then he fell asleep, and never woke up.

Segment 35 - 9:43

Return to Endor, go to Shrine south of Endor
Go all the way down, kill some Metal Babbles
Keep to outside on bottom floor
Go straight down to stairs
Left on third floor, get Staff of Transform, Outside
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Killed four Metal Babbles on the path and got some great stat increases, so I quickly left and saved.

Segments 36-38 - 6:55 total

Return to Endor, go to Shrine
Kill Metal Babbles
Return to Soretta, rest, save, (level 27)

I decided that leveling up for HealAll was a good idea, since I only beat Esturk without it when I was abusing save states. Killed five more in these three segments. CJ and Ragnar are level 26 and Cristo and Alena are level 27.

Segment 39 - 9:07

Return to Riverton, go to colossus
First Floor - up
Second Floor - right
Fourth Floor - right, down
Fifth Floor - all the way around
Seventh Floor - out left eye
Pull lever, jump out right ear
Go to monster castle
Use Staff of Transform, sit in first seat, watch event, take one step out of room
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Pretty easy. I feel over-leveled for the first time in the entire run.

Total time elapsed: 4:58:23

Well, I suppose that's it for a bit. My DVD recorder is officially borked. I recorded another (much-slower) run through Esturk, and the DVD recorder again decided to screw up, this time on the second floor of the Aktemto mine. This run is officially on hold until I can procure myself a working DVD recorder.

Here's my progress up to now:

Segment 30 - 11:28

Return to Endor
Sail S to Old Man’s Hut (one Small Medal, right jar)
Sail S to Haville, leave
Sail W to Aktemto, leave
Sail N to Seaside Village (one Small Medal in front of statue in daytime)
Sail N to Santeem, leave
Sail N, then E to Stancia
Get 2 Small Medals (stairs to right, 2nd jar; in back of castle, 2nd drawer)
Talk to old man on 2nd floor
Return to Monbaraba, get Panon
Return to Konenbur
Party: Hero/Cristo/Panon/Alena
Sail E, then N to Rosaville
Sell Hero’s SOM
Sell Cristo’s Wayfarer’s, Copper, SOM
Sell Alena’s Chain Mail, Wooden Hat
Sell Brey’s SOM
Buy Sword of Lethargy (Hero), equip
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Had a long battle in the ocean vs. 7 Man O' Wars and got into six (!) battles walking to Stancia (with one failed run and one fought enemy), otherwise OK.

Segment 31 - 5:56

Return to Santeem
Sail to cave, get 1 Small Medal and Zenithian Armor
Walk back to ship, THEN cast Outside (lose wagon otherwise)
Sail to king, get 2 Swords of Miracles (Hero/Cristo), equip Cristo only
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Realized that Santeem is actually closer to the shrine than Rosaville. Had two failed run attempts, but they were against two Fury Faces and a single Maskan.

Segment 32 - 5:18

Return to Haville, walk to Keeleon, kill Keeleon
Return to Stancia, party: Panon/Hero, get Zenithian Helm
Return to Soretta
Party: Hero/Ragnar/Cristo/Alena
Move Sword of Miracles, Dragon Mail/Shield and Iron Mask from Hero to Ragnar
Move Ragnar’s Scale Shield to Hero
Move Ragnar’s SOM, Half Plate to Nara, reequip
Hero: Lethargy/Zenithian/Scale/Zenithian
Ragnar: Miracles/Dragon/Dragon/Mask
Cristo: Miracles/Sacred/Babble/Iron
Alena: Iron/Leotard/Feather
Rest, save

Keeleon got one attack off on CJ, but that was it. He died in five rounds.

Segment 33 - 9:13

Return to Rosaville
Sell CJ’s Full Plate
Sell Ragnar’s SOM
Buy Stiletto for Alena, equip
Return to Santeem, kill Balzack
Get Magma Staff, give to Hero
Return to Rosaville
Sail to Gardenbur
Party: Hero/Nara
Get Fire Claw
Get arrested
Walk out
Party: Hero/Ragnar/Cristo/Alena
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Alena was doing crap damage to Balzack anyway, so I opted to go for Stiletto Earrings to double her critical chances. She repaid me with a critical on the second hit. Balzack slept the entire fight and never got an attack off. I was pleased to witness this action line at the end:

"Alena attacks! 4 Damage Points to Balzack! Balzack was defeated." :)

I did have another failed run from 4 Savnucks on the way to Gardenbur and two failed runs from 3 Chillanodons, bleh. I only had four total randoms on the way to Gardenbur, so that was good.

Segment 34 - 10:56

Return to Gardenbur
Move Fire Claw from Hero to Alena, equip
Go to cave, left, left, up, down, to second floor
Second floor, left, down
Kill Bakor (Defensive)
Return to Gardenbur
Talk to Queen for Final Key, right basement for Zenithian Shield, walk out
Return to Soretta, rest, save

I kept trying to kill a Metal Babble on the way to the cave, but I could never find any, so I gave up. Only got into six randoms in the cave, all fightable ones (in other words, no Dragonits). Bakor lasted six or seven rounds, which I thought was odd since Alena got two critical hits. Cristo used Upper on CJ, Stopspell on Bakor, and Increase, which caused a charged hit from Bakor to do a whopping 14 points of damage to CJ. Then he fell asleep, and never woke up.

Segment 35 - 9:43

Return to Endor, go to Shrine south of Endor
Go all the way down, kill some Metal Babbles
Keep to outside on bottom floor
Go straight down to stairs
Left on third floor, get Staff of Transform, Outside
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Killed four Metal Babbles on the path and got some great stat increases, so I quickly left and saved.

Segments 36-38 - 6:55 total

Return to Endor, go to Shrine
Kill Metal Babbles
Return to Soretta, rest, save, (level 27)

I decided that leveling up for HealAll was a good idea, since I only beat Esturk without it when I was abusing save states. Killed five more in these three segments. CJ and Ragnar are level 26 and Cristo and Alena are level 27.

Segment 39 - 9:07

Return to Riverton, go to colossus
First Floor - up
Second Floor - right
Fourth Floor - right, down
Fifth Floor - all the way around
Seventh Floor - out left eye
Pull lever, jump out right ear
Go to monster castle
Use Staff of Transform, sit in first seat, watch event, take one step out of room
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Pretty easy. I feel over-leveled for the first time in the entire run.

Total time elapsed: 4:58:23

chessjerk

2010-05-29 09:49:18 pm

New DVD recorder acquired!

Taping to resume shortly...

chessjerk

2010-05-30 05:38:28 pm

And done!

Segment 40 - 18:33

Return to Aktemto, go left, right, up, right to lower floor
Go right, left, up, right to underground palace, heal
Beat Esturk (Use No MP/Defensive, keep healed)
Get Gas Canister, Outside when out of palace
Return to Riverton, give up Canister, rest, get balloon
Return to Soretta, save

Esturk went down in five turns again. Alena treated me to a lovely double critical in one round.

Segment 41 - 9:36

Create party (Hero/Cristo/Alena)
Fly N to World Tree
Go right, down, up, left, up-right, get Lucia, get Zenithian Sword
Return to Soretta, create party (Hero/Ragnar/Mara/Alena), rest, save

After testing between Ragnar and Alena, I went with Alena instead, since she can two-hit kill some enemies here and she usually goes first in battle.

Segment 42 - 7:32

Return to Konenber, fly to island
Walk to Zenithian Tower
Equip Zenithian Sword to get in, then change back to Lethargy
Right, second entrance, up, down, left, left, down, get to Zenithia
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Pretty uneventful. Had one annoying battle with Pit Vipers where I fought for one round, got nowhere, then ran away. Didn't have any encounters in the big final room, which was impressive.

Segment 43 - 17:46

Return to Zenithia, go left, right (down stairs), jump down
Go to final cave
Go into second opening
Go around to stairs
Go left, down onto moving floor, then on to top right moving floor
Down stairs, sail right to stairs
Go to castle
Jump down, get Mirror Shield for Ragnar, equip
Exit, go to shrine, rest, save

Pretty happy with this segment. A Fairy Dragon/Bharack random dropped a Wizard Ring that I happily gave to Cristo. I also managed a King Metal kill in the castle section.

Segment 44 - 5:53

Return to Final Refuge
Bottom left boss, kill him (sleep)
Top left boss, kill him (sleep), get Sword of Miracles (Hero, don’t equip)
Walk out, Return, rest, save

Standard.

Segment 45 - 6:43

Return to Final Refuge
Bottom right boss, kill him (Transform to Cristo, Beat/Defeat)
Top right boss, kill him (sleep)
Walk out, Return, rest, save

The Anderougs went down in three turns. Radimvice was quite annoying, though. He got off three Blizzards and lasted three full turns before I got him to sleep. Meh.

Segment 46 - 18:36 (at the moment Necrosaro dies, add another 10 minutes or so for the ending and credits)

Return to Zenithia
Talk to Master Dragon, power up Zenithian Sword
Return to Final Refuge
Kill Necrosaro

Dear god, Necrosaro had his annoying meter turned up to 11, just for me. Three times I reached his final form with full or near-full HP (once when he was already asleep!) and all three times I got decimated. The best self-owning came when I had put a lot of hurt on him, but accidentally cast Boom instead of Healusall. CJ killed herself when Boom bounced off of Necrosaro, and the icy wind killed everyone else. Sad

Anyway, I realized that an unpowered-up Zenithian Sword does not cause the freezing waves effect. Also, CJ was close to the next level and the Healusall spell, so the 10,000 experience from Master Dragon did help.

Also, another odd thing I noticed was that it was night-time when I restarted in Soretta at the beginning of the segment. I guess daytime does pass even when you are walking around underground?

Finally, I'm assuming that timing ends when Necrosaro dies, not after the conversation with Master Dragon afterwards? I hope so, since I forgot where to walk to get out of Zenithia to get to the ending and went the wrong way. Smiley

Anyway, total time: 6:23:02

I have no idea if that's good or not, but I suppose we'll see what everyone else thinks.

And done!

Segment 40 - 18:33

Return to Aktemto, go left, right, up, right to lower floor
Go right, left, up, right to underground palace, heal
Beat Esturk (Use No MP/Defensive, keep healed)
Get Gas Canister, Outside when out of palace
Return to Riverton, give up Canister, rest, get balloon
Return to Soretta, save

Esturk went down in five turns again. Alena treated me to a lovely double critical in one round.

Segment 41 - 9:36

Create party (Hero/Cristo/Alena)
Fly N to World Tree
Go right, down, up, left, up-right, get Lucia, get Zenithian Sword
Return to Soretta, create party (Hero/Ragnar/Mara/Alena), rest, save

After testing between Ragnar and Alena, I went with Alena instead, since she can two-hit kill some enemies here and she usually goes first in battle.

Segment 42 - 7:32

Return to Konenber, fly to island
Walk to Zenithian Tower
Equip Zenithian Sword to get in, then change back to Lethargy
Right, second entrance, up, down, left, left, down, get to Zenithia
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Pretty uneventful. Had one annoying battle with Pit Vipers where I fought for one round, got nowhere, then ran away. Didn't have any encounters in the big final room, which was impressive.

Segment 43 - 17:46

Return to Zenithia, go left, right (down stairs), jump down
Go to final cave
Go into second opening
Go around to stairs
Go left, down onto moving floor, then on to top right moving floor
Down stairs, sail right to stairs
Go to castle
Jump down, get Mirror Shield for Ragnar, equip
Exit, go to shrine, rest, save

Pretty happy with this segment. A Fairy Dragon/Bharack random dropped a Wizard Ring that I happily gave to Cristo. I also managed a King Metal kill in the castle section.

Segment 44 - 5:53

Return to Final Refuge
Bottom left boss, kill him (sleep)
Top left boss, kill him (sleep), get Sword of Miracles (Hero, don’t equip)
Walk out, Return, rest, save

Standard.

Segment 45 - 6:43

Return to Final Refuge
Bottom right boss, kill him (Transform to Cristo, Beat/Defeat)
Top right boss, kill him (sleep)
Walk out, Return, rest, save

The Anderougs went down in three turns. Radimvice was quite annoying, though. He got off three Blizzards and lasted three full turns before I got him to sleep. Meh.

Segment 46 - 18:36 (at the moment Necrosaro dies, add another 10 minutes or so for the ending and credits)

Return to Zenithia
Talk to Master Dragon, power up Zenithian Sword
Return to Final Refuge
Kill Necrosaro

Dear god, Necrosaro had his annoying meter turned up to 11, just for me. Three times I reached his final form with full or near-full HP (once when he was already asleep!) and all three times I got decimated. The best self-owning came when I had put a lot of hurt on him, but accidentally cast Boom instead of Healusall. CJ killed herself when Boom bounced off of Necrosaro, and the icy wind killed everyone else. :(

Anyway, I realized that an unpowered-up Zenithian Sword does not cause the freezing waves effect. Also, CJ was close to the next level and the Healusall spell, so the 10,000 experience from Master Dragon did help.

Also, another odd thing I noticed was that it was night-time when I restarted in Soretta at the beginning of the segment. I guess daytime does pass even when you are walking around underground?

Finally, I'm assuming that timing ends when Necrosaro dies, not after the conversation with Master Dragon afterwards? I hope so, since I forgot where to walk to get out of Zenithia to get to the ending and went the wrong way. :)

Anyway, total time: 6:23:02

I have no idea if that's good or not, but I suppose we'll see what everyone else thinks.

Darkwing Duck

2010-05-30 05:43:24 pm

Highly Evolved

Timing ends when you lose control of the character, not when the final boss is defeated.

chessjerk

2010-05-30 05:45:37 pm

Damn, that sucks. Oh well, I only lost probably 20 seconds or so.

Blotter

2010-06-01 11:33:19 am

Great job. I have no idea if it is good or not either, but it is great to have a completed baseline!