Dragon Warrior 4 (At the moment, planning)

Edit history:

FionordeQuester: 2010-04-22 09:38:47 pm

2010-04-22 09:31:58 pm

Another problem I see. Why are you buying the Venomous Daggers before buying the Half Plate and Scale Shield anyways? It's not like Mara and Nara are gonna be physical dynamos or anything, and I've almost never been able to kill anything I wanted to kill before Orin was able to get to it. With Nara lacking the Parry key, she's pretty much always at a real risk of a 3HKO from reasonably strong enemies (most enemies were able to do that to her from what I played anyways, not all, but enough that I was always worried) without that awesome Defense the Half Plate n' Scale give her. Speaking of the Parry command, Mara already has Blaze and Fireball for damage just for those times you need more than what Orin has to get things done quick.

Yes, I know this is segmented, but the Venomous Daggers don't really seem to do much anyways. Now, granted, I've only done this once, but I don't think 3-4 extra points of damage from Nara (that's the only increase from what I could tell) is going to do much (Mara already has Blaze/Fireball for damage).

Another thing that bothers me is how expensive the Venomous Daggers are. The Cave segment is already very luck reliant to begin with, even without a 1500 Gold benchmark on top of that. If you just got the Half Plate, you could strip that down all the way to a mere 1380 Gold benchmark, that could even be pushed down to 1200 if you like (the Scale Shield only adds 7 Defense anyway), which also eliminates the need for you to go out of your way to collect that 240 Gold chest if you still felt like pushing your luck to the max.

Heck, there's even one situation where the Venomous Dagger causes problems for me. Using your route, you have to to grind, which means that one of the best encounters you can get is that encounter with the "Slimes into King Slimes" monsters you get sometimes, monsters that give you around 100 experience and even more Gold

If you try doing it with Venomous Dagger Nara/Mara, you'll either have to attack with the Dagger, thereby paralyzing one of the Slimes and severly dragging out the fight for several rounds (for some reason, the Slimes don't fuse together when one of them is paralyzed), or waste valuable MP by casting spells you don't actually intend to kill with, a real problem when Mara may not even gain Outside unti Level 10.

That's my argument and stance anyways. What do you think?

Another problem I see.  Why are you buying the Venomous Daggers before buying the Half Plate and Scale Shield anyways?  It's not like Mara and Nara are gonna be physical dynamos or anything, and I've almost never been able to kill anything I wanted to kill before Orin was able to get to it.  With Nara lacking the Parry key, she's pretty much always at a real risk of a 3HKO from reasonably strong enemies (most enemies were able to do that to her from what I played anyways, not all, but enough that I was always worried) without that awesome Defense the Half Plate n' Scale give her.  Speaking of the Parry command, Mara already has Blaze and Fireball for damage just for those times you need more than what Orin has to get things done quick.

Yes, I know this is segmented, but the Venomous Daggers don't really seem to do much anyways.  Now, granted, I've only done this once, but I don't think 3-4 extra points of damage from Nara (that's the only increase from what I could tell) is going to do much (Mara already has Blaze/Fireball for damage).

Another thing that bothers me is how expensive the Venomous Daggers are.  The Cave segment is already very luck reliant to begin with, even without a 1500 Gold benchmark on top of that.  If you just got the Half Plate, you could strip that down all the way to a mere 1380 Gold benchmark, that could even be pushed down to 1200 if you like (the Scale Shield only adds 7 Defense anyway), which also eliminates the need for you to go out of your way to collect that 240 Gold chest if you still felt like pushing your luck to the max.

Heck, there's even one situation where the Venomous Dagger causes problems for me.  Using your route, you have to to grind, which means that one of the best encounters you can get is that encounter with the "Slimes into King Slimes" monsters you get sometimes, monsters that give you around 100 experience and even more Gold

If you try doing it with Venomous Dagger Nara/Mara, you'll either have to attack with the Dagger, thereby paralyzing one of the Slimes and severly dragging out the fight for several rounds (for some reason, the Slimes don't fuse together when one of them is paralyzed), or waste valuable MP by casting spells you don't actually intend to kill with, a real problem when Mara may not even gain Outside unti Level 10.

That's my argument and stance anyways.  What do you think?

chessjerk

2010-04-22 11:12:42 pm

So maybe I should try getting Orin, getting the Sphere of Silence and leaving, head to Haville and save, then just fight enemies to level up and get gold faster.

It sounds like it would be doable. I'll give it a shot.

FionordeQuester

2010-04-22 11:25:14 pm

Well, yeah, I'm just saying, if you don't aim for having two Venomous Daggers immediately, which seem to me to be both more expensive and less useful than just getting a Half Plate, you can probably skip having to ever collect that Gold treasure to begin with. Besides that, that dungeon is already risky and deadly enough without having to go out of your way to get to that treasure.

Also, I've been trying really hard, but have not figured out a way to get that 2000 Coin prize in Chapter 5. I'm doing everything the TAS is doing, and I STILL can't seem to get it! How do you guys do it?

ShinerCCC

2010-04-22 11:48:08 pm

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

Sounds like one of those Venomous Daggers is too much to afford. In that case, maybe the Lifeforce Nuts and 240 gold pickup should be cut from the cave, then after you pick up the Sphere of Silence, death warp out of the cave. It will be a lot faster than walking out (and possibly detoxifying people), especially since you'll be nowhere near learning Outside. Just drop buying one of them, because it seems like more trouble than it's worth. Nara can use the Silver Tarot Cards as a weapon. If this a segmented run then you don't need the extra help of a second Venomous Dagger to kill one Metal Slime in the silver cave in Chapter 5, you have all the luck in the world. Alena's team only had one Venomous Dagger and three people, too. The Silver Tarot Cards have the added benefit of the Card of the Stars for Balzack to get 1000 experience instead of 500, but I don't think you need to bother with that since the only essential fight for the sisters after that is Lighthouse Bengal, and all you need is for Mara to reach level 11 (?) to learn Bang. That's guaranteed, since you'll already be at level 9 or 10 to learn Outside.

I'm still in favour of a Poison Needle for Mara, but for the reasons I just stated above, a segmented run doesn't need it.

I still like your approach of doing only one visit to the Sphere of Silence cave. Why didn't I think of spamming Medical Herbs myself? That cave is really frustrating without them. With that in mind, we should construct a "priority list" for post-cave equipment to better plan gold spending:

1. Half Plate Armor (Nara). Most important hand-me-down for Hero because the Cave of Betrayal is too hard without good defense.
2. Scale Shield (Nara). Another hand-me-down for Hero.
3. Venomous Dagger/Poison Needle (Mara). Utility weapon to kill Metal Slime in upcoming early Chapter 5 segment.
4. Venomous Dagger (Nara). Only a bit more attack than Silver Tarot Cards, but may save the day vs one of the Flamers...or a metal critter.

It's possible you could sell Mara's Silk Robe or Feather Hat to make up for one of these because Orin and Nara take the front against Balzack to draw hits. Mara is vulnerable to physical attacks even with some defense anyway.

Also FQ I somehow forgot really quickly that you got a computer virus despite reading it 5 seconds previous to that other post I made. That makes me the megafool here, not you.

Sounds like one of those Venomous Daggers is too much to afford. In that case, maybe the Lifeforce Nuts and 240 gold pickup should be cut from the cave, then after you pick up the Sphere of Silence, death warp out of the cave. It will be a lot faster than walking out (and possibly detoxifying people), especially since you'll be nowhere near learning Outside. Just drop buying one of them, because it seems like more trouble than it's worth. Nara can use the Silver Tarot Cards as a weapon. If this a segmented run then you don't need the extra help of a second Venomous Dagger to kill one Metal Slime in the silver cave in Chapter 5, you have all the luck in the world. Alena's team only had one Venomous Dagger and three people, too. The Silver Tarot Cards have the added benefit of the Card of the Stars for Balzack to get 1000 experience instead of 500, but I don't think you need to bother with that since the only essential fight for the sisters after that is Lighthouse Bengal, and all you need is for Mara to reach level 11 (?) to learn Bang. That's guaranteed, since you'll already be at level 9 or 10 to learn Outside.

I'm still in favour of a Poison Needle for Mara, but for the reasons I just stated above, a segmented run doesn't need it.

I still like your approach of doing only one visit to the Sphere of Silence cave. Why didn't I think of spamming Medical Herbs myself? That cave is really frustrating without them. With that in mind, we should construct a "priority list" for post-cave equipment to better plan gold spending:

1. Half Plate Armor (Nara). Most important hand-me-down for Hero because the Cave of Betrayal is too hard without good defense.
2. Scale Shield (Nara). Another hand-me-down for Hero.
3. Venomous Dagger/Poison Needle (Mara). Utility weapon to kill Metal Slime in upcoming early Chapter 5 segment.
4. Venomous Dagger (Nara). Only a bit more attack than Silver Tarot Cards, but may save the day vs one of the Flamers...or a metal critter.

It's possible you could sell Mara's Silk Robe or Feather Hat to make up for one of these because Orin and Nara take the front against Balzack to draw hits. Mara is vulnerable to physical attacks even with some defense anyway.

Also FQ I somehow forgot really quickly that you got a computer virus despite reading it 5 seconds previous to that other post I made. That makes me the megafool here, not you.

chessjerk

2010-04-23 06:47:53 am

Quote from FionordeQuester:

Well, yeah, I'm just saying, if you don't aim for having two Venomous Daggers immediately, which seem to me to be both more expensive and less useful than just getting a Half Plate, you can probably skip having to ever collect that Gold treasure to begin with. Besides that, that dungeon is already risky and deadly enough without having to go out of your way to get to that treasure.

Also, I've been trying really hard, but have not figured out a way to get that 2000 Coin prize in Chapter 5. I'm doing everything the TAS is doing, and I STILL can't seem to get it! How do you guys do it?

It's just a random event, there isn't anything in particular you can do to get it to happen except keep trying.

FionordeQuester

Edit history:

FionordeQuester: 2010-04-23 05:36:30 pm

2010-04-23 08:19:58 am

Not sure about the Life Force Nuts. It's not anywhere near as far out of your way as the 240 Gold treasure is. I was also thinking a similar thing about the Silver Tarot cards, not very far out of your way, and you're already gonna be grinding off monsters of lower/about equal level anyways, so a few extra encounters won't hurt like it would've with getting the 240 Gold treasure (in which Nara and Mara are already probably too drained to fight effectively on top of still having poor durability).

I'm not sure about skipping out on the Mystic Nuts either. That's not nearly as far out of your way as the Gold treasure is.

Also, the only thing the virus is preventing me from doing is recording my 7th Saga segments (you see, it's this thing that downloaded itself onto my computer and pretends to be an Antivirus program, so it'll constantly interrupt me as I'm doing stuff...not something you want to be happening when your trying to record something...). Other than that, I'm fine, so don't feel too bad.

Not sure about the Life Force Nuts.  It's not anywhere near as far out of your way as the 240 Gold treasure is.  I was also thinking a similar thing about the Silver Tarot cards, not very far out of your way, and you're already gonna be grinding off monsters of lower/about equal level anyways, so a few extra encounters won't hurt like it would've with getting the 240 Gold treasure (in which Nara and Mara are already probably too drained to fight effectively on top of still having poor durability).

I'm not sure about skipping out on the Mystic Nuts either.  That's not nearly as far out of your way as the Gold treasure is.

Also, the only thing the virus is preventing me from doing is recording my 7th Saga segments (you see, it's this thing that downloaded itself onto my computer and pretends to be an Antivirus program, so it'll constantly interrupt me as I'm doing stuff...not something you want to be happening when your trying to record something...).  Other than that, I'm fine, so don't feel too bad.

ShinerCCC

2010-04-24 04:55:53 pm

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

The Mystic Acorns are a given because they're so close and can be sold for a huge amount (412). That should add enough gold to let you afford one of those items I was talking about, and you can even get it while wandering and exploring the map as you grind.

chessjerk

2010-04-25 12:44:33 am

After much deliberation, here's another route idea:

Segment 18

Get Medical Herb in jar, 80 gold on floor (left side, second row, right seat), Strength Seed in second drawer
Buy Silk Robe for Mara
Walk to Kievs, fight 2 battles on the way for herb money
Rest @ Kievs
Get nuts in right jar in house
Sell Dancer Costume, nuts, buy Feather Hats for both, equip
Spend rest of money on medical herbs (give to Mara)
Go to cave, run from all battles
Get Orin (left fork)
Party: Orin/Nara/Mara
Get Sphere of Silence
Party: Nara/Mara/Orin
Remove armor, suicide
Respawn in Monbaraba, reequip armor
Party: Orin/Nara/Mara
Revive Nara
Go to Keeleon, leave
Go to Haville
Rest, buy Scale Shield for Nara (equip), save

NOTES: I hadn't seriously considered Shiner's suiciding idea, but doing it this way ensures I only need one trip to the cave, and I don't really care if anyone gets poisoned since death cures poison. Smiley

The suicide cost me about 150 gold or so.

I also realized that I can't get zero encounters on the way to Kievs, since I then barely cannot afford the two Feather Hats. Two decent random battles on the way should yield enough gold for the hats and 3 or 4 herbs.

Segment 19

Go to Aktemto, get Mystic Acorns, Silver Tarot Cards (Nara equip), Gunpowder Jar, run from battles
Party: Nara/Mara/Orin
Remove armor, suicide
Respawn in Haville, reequip armor
Party: Orin/Nara/Mara
Fight random battles until 713 gold
Sell Copper Sword, acorns, buy Half Plate for Nara, equip
Fight random battles for 768 gold (should be level 8 or 9)
Rest, buy Venomous Dagger for Mara, equip
Save

NOTES: Suicide round 2! Both of you were absolutely correct that two Daggers are not needed, the Tarot Cards are good enough of a weapon for Nara. The second suicide cost me about 100 gold.

The randoms around Haville aren't bad at level 5 or 6. Hopefully, lots of King Slimes show up, due to the high experience and gold and relative ease of killing. Hopefully random battles consisting of just the individual Slimes do NOT show up.

I'm not sure if I should break this up into two segments, one for Aktemto and one for the grinding. It would suck to get a decent run through Aktemto only to get crappy random battles afterwards.

Segment 20

Return to Keeleon, use Gunpowder Jar outside Chancellor’s room
Beat Balzack (Sphere of Silence/Sap, then attack and keep healed)
Lose to Keeleon (can’t win)
Get Boarding Pass
Go to Haville, get on ship
Go down, talk to girl in top room only
Talk to the captain

NOTE: By the time the grinding for money is done, Nara should be level 8 and Mara should be level 9. Balzack goes down easily provided he doesn't cast a spell before Nara silences him and as long as he doesn't attack Nara or Mara twice in a row before they can be healed.

Thoughts on the new idea?

After much deliberation, here's another route idea:

Segment 18

Get Medical Herb in jar, 80 gold on floor (left side, second row, right seat), Strength Seed in second drawer
Buy Silk Robe for Mara
Walk to Kievs, fight 2 battles on the way for herb money
Rest @ Kievs
Get nuts in right jar in house
Sell Dancer Costume, nuts, buy Feather Hats for both, equip
Spend rest of money on medical herbs (give to Mara)
Go to cave, run from all battles
Get Orin (left fork)
Party: Orin/Nara/Mara
Get Sphere of Silence
Party: Nara/Mara/Orin
Remove armor, suicide
Respawn in Monbaraba, reequip armor
Party: Orin/Nara/Mara
Revive Nara
Go to Keeleon, leave
Go to Haville
Rest, buy Scale Shield for Nara (equip), save

NOTES: I hadn't seriously considered Shiner's suiciding idea, but doing it this way ensures I only need one trip to the cave, and I don't really care if anyone gets poisoned since death cures poison. :) The suicide cost me about 150 gold or so.

I also realized that I can't get zero encounters on the way to Kievs, since I then barely cannot afford the two Feather Hats. Two decent random battles on the way should yield enough gold for the hats and 3 or 4 herbs.

Segment 19

Go to Aktemto, get Mystic Acorns, Silver Tarot Cards (Nara equip), Gunpowder Jar, run from battles
Party: Nara/Mara/Orin
Remove armor, suicide
Respawn in Haville, reequip armor
Party: Orin/Nara/Mara
Fight random battles until 713 gold
Sell Copper Sword, acorns, buy Half Plate for Nara, equip
Fight random battles for 768 gold (should be level 8 or 9)
Rest, buy Venomous Dagger for Mara, equip
Save

NOTES: Suicide round 2! Both of you were absolutely correct that two Daggers are not needed, the Tarot Cards are good enough of a weapon for Nara. The second suicide cost me about 100 gold.

The randoms around Haville aren't bad at level 5 or 6. Hopefully, lots of King Slimes show up, due to the high experience and gold and relative ease of killing. Hopefully random battles consisting of just the individual Slimes do NOT show up.

I'm not sure if I should break this up into two segments, one for Aktemto and one for the grinding. It would suck to get a decent run through Aktemto only to get crappy random battles afterwards.

Segment 20

Return to Keeleon, use Gunpowder Jar outside Chancellor’s room
Beat Balzack (Sphere of Silence/Sap, then attack and keep healed)
Lose to Keeleon (can’t win)
Get Boarding Pass
Go to Haville, get on ship
Go down, talk to girl in top room only
Talk to the captain

NOTE: By the time the grinding for money is done, Nara should be level 8 and Mara should be level 9. Balzack goes down easily provided he doesn't cast a spell before Nara silences him and as long as he doesn't attack Nara or Mara twice in a row before they can be healed.

Thoughts on the new idea?

FionordeQuester

2010-04-25 01:25:18 am

Hmm...when I said I wouldn't skip the Mystic Nuts, what I meant to say was that I wouldn't recommend skipping the Life Force Nuts in the Kievs Cave (the one Orin is found in). It's not especially far out of your way unlike the 240 Gold chest, and you might be able to afford the Half Plate that way.

chessjerk

2010-04-25 01:33:32 am

Not right away, no. But it should decrease the amount of time I need to grind to get there.

Paulygon

2010-04-25 03:24:05 am

I like to watch

Quote from chessjerk:

Quote from FionordeQuester:

Well, yeah, I'm just saying, if you don't aim for having two Venomous Daggers immediately, which seem to me to be both more expensive and less useful than just getting a Half Plate, you can probably skip having to ever collect that Gold treasure to begin with. Besides that, that dungeon is already risky and deadly enough without having to go out of your way to get to that treasure.

Also, I've been trying really hard, but have not figured out a way to get that 2000 Coin prize in Chapter 5. I'm doing everything the TAS is doing, and I STILL can't seem to get it! How do you guys do it?

It's just a random event, there isn't anything in particular you can do to get it to happen except keep trying.

Just FYI, the chances of getting this bonus are 1/32 (8/256), which is checked only once per tunnel visit (I think) when you pass in front of the guard who awards it (either of the 2 squares right below him).

chessjerk

2010-04-25 08:20:21 pm

Chapter 3 taping complete!

Segment 12 - 3:38

Get Medical Herb from first pot
Go to cave, get Chain Sickle, equip (use Lunch if needed)
Get an item drop in the cave
Suicide
Respawn at Lakanaba, save

After many, many retries, finally got a Broad Sword drop.

Segment 13 - 3:52

Get sold a Sword of Malice at the shop, leave early
Sell Clothes/item drop, buy four Wings, save

Who knew it was so tough to get sold a Sword of Malice when you really needed it? After I saved, I wish I would've bought six wings instead of four, since I used Wings to get out of Lakanaba twice in the next segment to save a small amount of time.

Segment 14 - 7:07

Wings to Lakanaba
Go to Bonmalmo (get item drop on the way)
Buy two wings
Talk to Reed
Go to jail, give Wings to free Tom
Wings to Lakanaba
Get Tov
Wings to Lakanaba
Go to Foxville
Talk to coyote, get Full Plate Armor
Wings to Lakanaba, return Tov
Walk to Bonmalmo, sell items, buy four Wings, talk to King, save

Reset over and over until I found an Iron Spear on the way to Bonmalmo, then lucked out and found a Broad Sword on the way to Bonmalmo after returning Tov.

Segment 15 - 4:36

Sell Full Plate for 3800+
Walk to Endor
Wings to Bonmalmo, talk to Reed, get letter
Wings to Endor, rest for daytime
Give Letter to Mia, get Scroll
Wings to Bonmalmo
Give Scroll to King Bonmalmo
Wings to Endor
Hire Laurent, talk to the King, hire Strom, rearrange party, save

Grrr, I was pissed at myself for this one. Got 4240 for the Full Plate, then for some stupid reason I wandered around Endor for five seconds before Winging back to Bonmalmo, THEN accidentally talked to Mia (twice!) instead of reading the letter to her.

Meh, small loss of time, but boy does it look dumb. Sad

Segment 16 - 16:13

Go get Silver Statuette, get Wings in cave, get all treasure except Broad Sword
Get good item drop if possible
Wings to Bonmalmo
Buy wings, sell weapons
Sell armor to get to 10,000
Wings to Endor, sell statue, buy shop
Talk to Neta 5 times and pass five days
Leave, Strom and Laurent leave, reenter
Give up all remaining items to Neta, save

Got a Half Plate drop even before I got to the cave, so I ran from some encounters in the cave to preserve Laurent's MP. I got the statuette while he still had 30 or so MP, so I knew I would get back out easily.

Segment 17 - 20:48

Need 48,400 for 7 Broad Swords, 7 Half Plates, 7 SOM and 1 Iron Apron

7 Broads = 14,000
7 Half Plates = 8,400
7 SOM = 24,500
Iron Apron = 1,500
8 AOV = 12,800

Get up to 21,200 gold, buy 7 Half Plates @ Endor
Talk to King
Give up armor
Get up to 40,100 gold, buy two Wings
Wings to Bonmalmo, buy 7 Broad Swords
Wings to Endor
Give up swords, get 60K
Buy two Wings
Wings to Lakanaba
Buy 7 Swords of Malice
Wings to Endor, buy Iron Apron, equip
Go to cave, give 60K to old man
Exit and re-enter cave, talk to old man
Walk to Endor
Go in and out of casino
Talk to Neta
Go to tunnel

I was impressed I only messed up in the menus once in this segment. Unfortunately, on the last step before the tunnel at the very end, two Blazeghosts attacked and I wasted two turns running away.

Total Chapter 3 - 56:14

Total Chapters 1 thru 3 - 2:08:11

Chapter 3 taping complete!

Segment 12 - 3:38

Get Medical Herb from first pot
Go to cave, get Chain Sickle, equip (use Lunch if needed)
Get an item drop in the cave
Suicide
Respawn at Lakanaba, save

After many, many retries, finally got a Broad Sword drop.

Segment 13 - 3:52

Get sold a Sword of Malice at the shop, leave early
Sell Clothes/item drop, buy four Wings, save

Who knew it was so tough to get sold a Sword of Malice when you really needed it? After I saved, I wish I would've bought six wings instead of four, since I used Wings to get out of Lakanaba twice in the next segment to save a small amount of time.

Segment 14 - 7:07

Wings to Lakanaba
Go to Bonmalmo (get item drop on the way)
Buy two wings
Talk to Reed
Go to jail, give Wings to free Tom
Wings to Lakanaba
Get Tov
Wings to Lakanaba
Go to Foxville
Talk to coyote, get Full Plate Armor
Wings to Lakanaba, return Tov
Walk to Bonmalmo, sell items, buy four Wings, talk to King, save

Reset over and over until I found an Iron Spear on the way to Bonmalmo, then lucked out and found a Broad Sword on the way to Bonmalmo after returning Tov.

Segment 15 - 4:36

Sell Full Plate for 3800+
Walk to Endor
Wings to Bonmalmo, talk to Reed, get letter
Wings to Endor, rest for daytime
Give Letter to Mia, get Scroll
Wings to Bonmalmo
Give Scroll to King Bonmalmo
Wings to Endor
Hire Laurent, talk to the King, hire Strom, rearrange party, save

Grrr, I was pissed at myself for this one. Got 4240 for the Full Plate, then for some stupid reason I wandered around Endor for five seconds before Winging back to Bonmalmo, THEN accidentally talked to Mia (twice!) instead of reading the letter to her.

Meh, small loss of time, but boy does it look dumb. :(

Segment 16 - 16:13

Go get Silver Statuette, get Wings in cave, get all treasure except Broad Sword
Get good item drop if possible
Wings to Bonmalmo
Buy wings, sell weapons
Sell armor to get to 10,000
Wings to Endor, sell statue, buy shop
Talk to Neta 5 times and pass five days
Leave, Strom and Laurent leave, reenter
Give up all remaining items to Neta, save

Got a Half Plate drop even before I got to the cave, so I ran from some encounters in the cave to preserve Laurent's MP. I got the statuette while he still had 30 or so MP, so I knew I would get back out easily.

Segment 17 - 20:48

Need 48,400 for 7 Broad Swords, 7 Half Plates, 7 SOM and 1 Iron Apron

7 Broads = 14,000
7 Half Plates = 8,400
7 SOM = 24,500
Iron Apron = 1,500
8 AOV = 12,800

Get up to 21,200 gold, buy 7 Half Plates @ Endor
Talk to King
Give up armor
Get up to 40,100 gold, buy two Wings
Wings to Bonmalmo, buy 7 Broad Swords
Wings to Endor
Give up swords, get 60K
Buy two Wings
Wings to Lakanaba
Buy 7 Swords of Malice
Wings to Endor, buy Iron Apron, equip
Go to cave, give 60K to old man
Exit and re-enter cave, talk to old man
Walk to Endor
Go in and out of casino
Talk to Neta
Go to tunnel

I was impressed I only messed up in the menus once in this segment. Unfortunately, on the last step before the tunnel at the very end, two Blazeghosts attacked and I wasted two turns running away.

Total Chapter 3 - 56:14

Total Chapters 1 thru 3 - 2:08:11

ShinerCCC

2010-04-25 08:47:28 pm

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

YES! Good stuff CJ!

How long did it take to haggle 4240 in that segment? o_O
A good verifier will still accept that segment...

As for your Chapter 4 route, the only part I find irksome is suiciding in Aktemto mine. It's the most high-end encounter area in the game, so it's where you should be grinding at the end anyway, and you'll have learned Outside/Return for a quick getaway by then. I would also split your idea for Segment 19 if you want to grind that way. Small things I would change:
- Before departing Kievs for the cave, try to visit Keeleon and leave to save lots of walking time after respawning. The encounters there are very dangerous, yes, but stick to the grasslands and run from all those, it's a short segment anyway.
- After suiciding, either buy a Wing or use the one you can pick up in the cave (would take longer and be more dangerous) and fly to Keeleon. Should save tons of time.
- Save in Haville if you want, then grind King Slimes for a bit. Orin stabs them good, sometimes Mara can get a Sap out before FendSpell.
- If you want to suicide early in Aktemto mine, just grab the Mystic Acorns and Silver Tarot Cards, then respawn in Haville. The trek to the Gunpowder Jar is longer, and awards tooons of money and experience. Now Nara has a decent weapon to grind with (Card of the Stars for King Slimes too?? And you might get lucky with Venomous Dagger/Poison Needle if you want to get Necrodains to show up LOL)
- Don't forget to manipulate Card of the Stars versus Keeleon...I dunno, they might need the small boost for the Lighthouse fight. Gotta reach level 11 so Mara can learn Bang, after all.

1/32 isn't bad odds on the coin prize at all. Same as the Death Necklace in DW1, which I'll have to manipulate for my segmented run...hoo boy...such a silly idea, it's like the runs of Diablo II, just a contained exercise in luck that doesn't really mean anything about how quickly Dragon Warrior can be beaten generally >_>

YES! Good stuff CJ!

How long did it take to haggle 4240 in that segment? o_O
A good verifier will still accept that segment...

As for your Chapter 4 route, the only part I find irksome is suiciding in Aktemto mine. It's the most high-end encounter area in the game, so it's where you should be grinding at the end anyway, and you'll have learned Outside/Return for a quick getaway by then. I would also split your idea for Segment 19 if you want to grind that way. Small things I would change:
- Before departing Kievs for the cave, try to visit Keeleon and leave to save lots of walking time after respawning. The encounters there are very dangerous, yes, but stick to the grasslands and run from all those, it's a short segment anyway.
- After suiciding, either buy a Wing or use the one you can pick up in the cave (would take longer and be more dangerous) and fly to Keeleon. Should save tons of time.
- Save in Haville if you want, then grind King Slimes for a bit. Orin stabs them good, sometimes Mara can get a Sap out before FendSpell.
- If you want to suicide early in Aktemto mine, just grab the Mystic Acorns and Silver Tarot Cards, then respawn in Haville. The trek to the Gunpowder Jar is longer, and awards tooons of money and experience. Now Nara has a decent weapon to grind with (Card of the Stars for King Slimes too?? And you might get lucky with Venomous Dagger/Poison Needle if you want to get Necrodains to show up LOL)
- Don't forget to manipulate Card of the Stars versus Keeleon...I dunno, they might need the small boost for the Lighthouse fight. Gotta reach level 11 so Mara can learn Bang, after all.

1/32 isn't bad odds on the coin prize at all. Same as the Death Necklace in DW1, which I'll have to manipulate for my segmented run...hoo boy...such a silly idea, it's like the runs of Diablo II, just a contained exercise in luck that doesn't really mean anything about how quickly Dragon Warrior can be beaten generally >_>

chessjerk

2010-04-25 10:08:31 pm

Quote from ShinerCCC:

How long did it take to haggle 4240 in that segment? o_O
A good verifier will still accept that segment...

Quite a few tries, actually. What I did was try 4 or 5 times and then reset if I didn't get anything by then. In this particular attempt, the 4240 came on the second offer.

Quote:

As for your Chapter 4 route, the only part I find irksome is suiciding in Aktemto mine. It's the most high-end encounter area in the game, so it's where you should be grinding at the end anyway, and you'll have learned Outside/Return for a quick getaway by then. I would also split your idea for Segment 19 if you want to grind that way.

I disagree with that. If I wanted to grind for experience, large groups of Viceters outside Aktemto would be best (since they die quickly to Infernos/Firebal), but since I really don't need to grind experience with my current plan (I only need gold), the encounters outside Haville are better (5 Xemime group, 4 Liclick group, and King Slimes are the best)

Quote:

Small things I would change:
- Before departing Kievs for the cave, try to visit Keeleon and leave to save lots of walking time after respawning. The encounters there are very dangerous, yes, but stick to the grasslands and run from all those, it's a short segment anyway.

I don't think this saves much time at all, to be honest. I'd save the time to walk from Monbaraba to Keeleon after suiciding (which is not very long, especially with Orin killing everything easily on the way), but at the cost of walking to and from Keeleon without Orin AND getting the Wing treasure in the cave (also without Orin).

Quote:

- After suiciding, either buy a Wing or use the one you can pick up in the cave (would take longer and be more dangerous) and fly to Keeleon. Should save tons of time.

Buy a wing? Monbaraba doesn't sell them, and for the time it takes to buy one in Kievs, I could just walk to Keeleon. I could pick up the one in the cave, but I just don't see how that saves any meaningful time (since the walking to and from Keeleon and the extra walking to get the Wing isn't much shorter than just walking to Keeleon from Monbaraba, if it is shorter at all!).

Quote:

- Save in Haville if you want, then grind King Slimes for a bit. Orin stabs them good, sometimes Mara can get a Sap out before FendSpell.

No worries on that, that is my plan for killing them.

Quote:

- If you want to suicide early in Aktemto mine, just grab the Mystic Acorns and Silver Tarot Cards, then respawn in Haville. The trek to the Gunpowder Jar is longer, and awards tooons of money and experience. Now Nara has a decent weapon to grind with (Card of the Stars for King Slimes too?? And you might get lucky with Venomous Dagger/Poison Needle if you want to get Necrodains to show up LOL)

As I said above, the mine's encounters are not any more lucrative in terms of gold and experience than the outside encounters are. Although, starting the grinding segment by getting a King Slime battle with a Card of Stars isn't a bad idea at all. I'm not even going to consider Necrodains, that's WAY too random to be useful.

Quote:

- Don't forget to manipulate Card of the Stars versus Keeleon...I dunno, they might need the small boost for the Lighthouse fight. Gotta reach level 11 so Mara can learn Bang, after all.

I think my manipulating a Metal Slime in Chapter 5 covers this nicely, so I'm not going to worry about this. In my practice runs, Mara has never NOT learned Bang by the time I get to the lighthouse.

[quote="ShinerCCC"]
How long did it take to haggle 4240 in that segment? o_O
A good verifier will still accept that segment...[/quote]

Quite a few tries, actually. What I did was try 4 or 5 times and then reset if I didn't get anything by then. In this particular attempt, the 4240 came on the second offer.

[quote]As for your Chapter 4 route, the only part I find irksome is suiciding in Aktemto mine. It's the most high-end encounter area in the game, so it's where you should be grinding at the end anyway, and you'll have learned Outside/Return for a quick getaway by then. I would also split your idea for Segment 19 if you want to grind that way.[/quote]

I disagree with that. If I wanted to grind for experience, large groups of Viceters outside Aktemto would be best (since they die quickly to Infernos/Firebal), but since I really don't need to grind experience with my current plan (I only need gold), the encounters outside Haville are better (5 Xemime group, 4 Liclick group, and King Slimes are the best)

[quote]Small things I would change:
- Before departing Kievs for the cave, try to visit Keeleon and leave to save lots of walking time after respawning. The encounters there are very dangerous, yes, but stick to the grasslands and run from all those, it's a short segment anyway.[/quote]

I don't think this saves much time at all, to be honest. I'd save the time to walk from Monbaraba to Keeleon after suiciding (which is not very long, especially with Orin killing everything easily on the way), but at the cost of walking to and from Keeleon without Orin AND getting the Wing treasure in the cave (also without Orin).

[quote]- After suiciding, either buy a Wing or use the one you can pick up in the cave (would take longer and be more dangerous) and fly to Keeleon. Should save tons of time.[/quote]

Buy a wing? Monbaraba doesn't sell them, and for the time it takes to buy one in Kievs, I could just walk to Keeleon. I could pick up the one in the cave, but I just don't see how that saves any meaningful time (since the walking to and from Keeleon and the extra walking to get the Wing isn't much shorter than just walking to Keeleon from Monbaraba, if it is shorter at all!).

[quote]- Save in Haville if you want, then grind King Slimes for a bit. Orin stabs them good, sometimes Mara can get a Sap out before FendSpell.[/quote]

No worries on that, that is my plan for killing them.

[quote]- If you want to suicide early in Aktemto mine, just grab the Mystic Acorns and Silver Tarot Cards, then respawn in Haville. The trek to the Gunpowder Jar is longer, and awards tooons of money and experience. Now Nara has a decent weapon to grind with (Card of the Stars for King Slimes too?? And you might get lucky with Venomous Dagger/Poison Needle if you want to get Necrodains to show up LOL)[/quote]

As I said above, the mine's encounters are not any more lucrative in terms of gold and experience than the outside encounters are. Although, starting the grinding segment by getting a King Slime battle with a Card of Stars isn't a bad idea at all. I'm not even going to consider Necrodains, that's WAY too random to be useful.

[quote]- Don't forget to manipulate Card of the Stars versus Keeleon...I dunno, they might need the small boost for the Lighthouse fight. Gotta reach level 11 so Mara can learn Bang, after all.[/quote]

I think my manipulating a Metal Slime in Chapter 5 covers this nicely, so I'm not going to worry about this. In my practice runs, Mara has never NOT learned Bang by the time I get to the lighthouse.

FionordeQuester

2010-04-26 11:06:04 pm

I just got done testing your Chapter 5 route, Chessjerk, and I have to say, I'm really impressed with it. Everything seems to fall into place so neatly, and it isn't even that hard (for the most part anyways). Your idea of giving everyone Swords of Malices to use as items was pretty swell as well (I was kicking myself when I realized I could've been taking advantage of that, but I didn't even realize I could until a certain point). Three criticisms and a few questions however....

CRITICISM

1) Why are you even bothering to get the Leather Armor and 50 G at the woodman's house? The enemies aren't hard by any stretch of the imagination, and even if they were, you're not walking a very far distance to the Magi Twins at all.

2) Why push your luck so much in the Casino's? I know you need a Medal Slime Shield for Cristo, but I think two is WAY execissive and unneeded. The Magi twins are only with you for a pretty brief period of time, and they can pwnstomp most things with a combination of their spells and Sword of Malice chantings. As a matter of fact, you know what I would do? I would give Mara that Medal Slime Shield for that Padequia Cave, then let Nara die somewhere in it once you're near the end. Warp out, then kill off Brey and Mara then just give that one Medal Slime Shield to Cristo.

3) In your route, you mention getting 11 Small Medals in order to get two Sword of Miracles, but that costs 11 Small Medals. You say to only get one in the Shrine of Breaking Waves when there are two to be gotten there. Was that a typo? I think it was. I would revise it so people don't get confused.

4) Why not go out of your way to get as many Strength Seeds as possible for Alena? I can't picture any scenario where each would cost anymore than a few seconds that I think could be made up wit the extra OOMPH the Seeds might grant against bosses (I've heard from I think Shier, that each seed is like a 50% boost to Alena's damage. IMy criticism is based on that, so you can pretty much ignore it if I was incorrect)

QUESTIONS

1) Does the party formation work the same way it did in Dragon Warrior III?

2) Is there anything in particular you need to know about my experiences testing out your route? I know you stopped making it further so you could test this route for viability, which is why I'm test running it for you guys, to help you out. So, ask any questions, and I'll tell you about my thoughts.

3) Is there any way to type long messages like this without the post screen sliding up and completely obscuring my vision while I'm typing? Because it's starting to REALLY annoy me >:(!!

I just got done testing your Chapter 5 route, Chessjerk, and I have to say, I'm really impressed with it.  Everything seems to fall into place so neatly, and it isn't even that hard (for the most part anyways).  Your idea of giving everyone Swords of Malices to use as items was pretty swell as well (I was kicking myself when I realized I could've been taking advantage of that, but I didn't even realize I could until a certain point).  Three criticisms and a few questions however....

[u]CRITICISM[/u]

1) Why are you even bothering to get the Leather Armor and 50 G at the woodman's house?  The enemies aren't hard by any stretch of the imagination, and even if they were, you're not walking a very far distance to the Magi Twins at all.

2) Why push your luck so much in the Casino's?  I know you need a Medal Slime Shield for Cristo, but I think two is WAY execissive and unneeded.  The Magi twins are only with you for a pretty brief period of time, and they can pwnstomp most things with a combination of their spells and Sword of Malice chantings.  As a matter of fact, you know what I would do?  I would give Mara that Medal Slime Shield for that Padequia Cave, then let Nara die somewhere in it once you're near the end.  Warp out, then kill off Brey and Mara then just give that one Medal Slime Shield to Cristo.

3) In your route, you mention getting 11 Small Medals in order to get two Sword of Miracles, but that costs 11 Small Medals.  You say to only get one in the Shrine of Breaking Waves when there are two to be gotten there.  Was that a typo?  I think it was.  I would revise it so people don't get confused.

4) Why not go out of your way to get as many Strength Seeds as possible for Alena?  I can't picture any scenario where each would cost anymore than a few seconds that I think could be made up wit the extra OOMPH the Seeds might grant against bosses (I've heard from I think Shier, that each seed is like a 50% boost to Alena's damage.  IMy criticism is based on that, so you can pretty much ignore it if I was incorrect)

[U]QUESTIONS[/U]

1) Does the party formation work the same way it did in Dragon Warrior III?

2) Is there anything in particular you need to know about my experiences testing out your route?  I know you stopped making it further so you could test this route for viability, which is why I'm test running it for you guys, to help you out.  So, ask any questions, and I'll tell you about my thoughts.

3) Is there any way to type long messages like this without the post screen sliding up and completely obscuring my vision while I'm typing?  Because it's starting to REALLY annoy me >:(!!

chessjerk

2010-04-27 04:26:52 pm

Quote from FionordeQuester:

1) Why are you even bothering to get the Leather Armor and 50 G at the woodman's house? The enemies aren't hard by any stretch of the imagination, and even if they were, you're not walking a very far distance to the Magi Twins at all.

Good question. I don't know why. I'll try skipping them next time.

Quote:

2) Why push your luck so much in the Casino's? I know you need a Medal Slime Shield for Cristo, but I think two is WAY execissive and unneeded. The Magi twins are only with you for a pretty brief period of time, and they can pwnstomp most things with a combination of their spells and Sword of Malice chantings. As a matter of fact, you know what I would do? I would give Mara that Medal Slime Shield for that Padequia Cave, then let Nara die somewhere in it once you're near the end. Warp out, then kill off Brey and Mara then just give that one Medal Slime Shield to Cristo.

I never did get around to trying to beat the Lighthouse with only one Babble Shield. It will be harder, but certainly doable.

Killing off Nara early, I suppose that would work, too.

Quote:

3) In your route, you mention getting 11 Small Medals in order to get two Sword of Miracles, but that costs 11 Small Medals. You say to only get one in the Shrine of Breaking Waves when there are two to be gotten there. Was that a typo? I think it was. I would revise it so people don't get confused.

I'm assuming you mean 12, not 11. Here they are:

Two at Konenbur
One at Mintos
One at shrine east of Mintos
One at Riverton
One near Magic Key
One at Endor
One at old man's island
One at Seaside village
Two at Stancia
One next to Zenithian Armor

That's 12, did you miss one?

Quote:

4) Why not go out of your way to get as many Strength Seeds as possible for Alena? I can't picture any scenario where each would cost anymore than a few seconds that I think could be made up wit the extra OOMPH the Seeds might grant against bosses (I've heard from I think Shier, that each seed is like a 50% boost to Alena's damage. IMy criticism is based on that, so you can pretty much ignore it if I was incorrect)

I still don't think they are worth it in chapter 5. They were in chapter 2 to help with the tournament, since Alena was alone. I believe there are only 3 or 4 strength seeds available that are not terribly out of the way to get. Each seed being a 50% boost in strength is nonsense. I have a save where a level 31 Alena has 157 strength (and I think that was with no strength seeds used). With 4 seeds, that becomes 169 strength, an improvement of 7 to 8%. Not too shabby, but not necessarily worth it, IMO.

Quote:

QUESTIONS

1) Does the party formation work the same way it did in Dragon Warrior III?

Do you mean how the front of the party receives more hits than that back? I would think so, but I'm not 100% sure.

Quote:

2) Is there anything in particular you need to know about my experiences testing out your route? I know you stopped making it further so you could test this route for viability, which is why I'm test running it for you guys, to help you out. So, ask any questions, and I'll tell you about my thoughts.

Well, the only real question I would have would be how often did you die (if at all), especially in the early going?

[quote="FionordeQuester"]
1) Why are you even bothering to get the Leather Armor and 50 G at the woodman's house?  The enemies aren't hard by any stretch of the imagination, and even if they were, you're not walking a very far distance to the Magi Twins at all.[/quote]

Good question. I don't know why. I'll try skipping them next time.

[quote]2) Why push your luck so much in the Casino's?  I know you need a Medal Slime Shield for Cristo, but I think two is WAY execissive and unneeded.  The Magi twins are only with you for a pretty brief period of time, and they can pwnstomp most things with a combination of their spells and Sword of Malice chantings.  As a matter of fact, you know what I would do?  I would give Mara that Medal Slime Shield for that Padequia Cave, then let Nara die somewhere in it once you're near the end.  Warp out, then kill off Brey and Mara then just give that one Medal Slime Shield to Cristo.[/quote]

I never did get around to trying to beat the Lighthouse with only one Babble Shield. It will be harder, but certainly doable.

Killing off Nara early, I suppose that would work, too.

[quote]3) In your route, you mention getting 11 Small Medals in order to get two Sword of Miracles, but that costs 11 Small Medals.  You say to only get one in the Shrine of Breaking Waves when there are two to be gotten there.  Was that a typo?  I think it was.  I would revise it so people don't get confused.[/quote]

I'm assuming you mean 12, not 11. Here they are:

Two at Konenbur
One at Mintos
One at shrine east of Mintos
One at Riverton
One near Magic Key
One at Endor
One at old man's island
One at Seaside village
Two at Stancia
One next to Zenithian Armor

That's 12, did you miss one?

[quote]4) Why not go out of your way to get as many Strength Seeds as possible for Alena?  I can't picture any scenario where each would cost anymore than a few seconds that I think could be made up wit the extra OOMPH the Seeds might grant against bosses (I've heard from I think Shier, that each seed is like a 50% boost to Alena's damage.  IMy criticism is based on that, so you can pretty much ignore it if I was incorrect)[/quote]

I still don't think they are worth it in chapter 5. They were in chapter 2 to help with the tournament, since Alena was alone. I believe there are only 3 or 4 strength seeds available that are not terribly out of the way to get. Each seed being a 50% boost in strength is nonsense. I have a save where a level 31 Alena has 157 strength (and I think that was with no strength seeds used). With 4 seeds, that becomes 169 strength, an improvement of 7 to 8%. Not too shabby, but not necessarily worth it, IMO.

[quote][U]QUESTIONS[/U]

1) Does the party formation work the same way it did in Dragon Warrior III?[/quote]

Do you mean how the front of the party receives more hits than that back? I would think so, but I'm not 100% sure.

[quote]2) Is there anything in particular you need to know about my experiences testing out your route?  I know you stopped making it further so you could test this route for viability, which is why I'm test running it for you guys, to help you out.  So, ask any questions, and I'll tell you about my thoughts.[/quote]

Well, the only real question I would have would be how often did you die (if at all), especially in the early going?

FionordeQuester

2010-04-27 08:55:30 pm

I never did get around to trying to beat the Lighthouse with only one Babble Shield. It will be harder, but certainly doable.

I don't think you'll have any trouble. I found it to be incredibly easy on the DS version, in which you're not even allowed to get Metal Babble Shields (yeah, it's slightly easier in quite a bit of ways, but random encounter difficulty is NOT one of them. As a matter of fact, the random encounters are actually HARDER in that version!).

I still don't think they are worth it in chapter 5. They were in chapter 2 to help with the tournament, since Alena was alone. I believe there are only 3 or 4 strength seeds available that are not terribly out of the way to get. Each seed being a 50% boost in strength is nonsense. I have a save where a level 31 Alena has 157 strength (and I think that was with no strength seeds used). With 4 seeds, that becomes 169 strength, an improvement of 7 to 8%. Not too shabby, but not necessarily worth it, IMO.

No, not strength, that's not what the person said. What he meant was in total damage done.

Do you mean how the front of the party receives more hits than that back? I would think so, but I'm not 100% sure.

I would think so since Dragon Warrior III and IV seem to have the same mechanics. Speaking of that, I have some advice I need to give you. Pay special attention to how enemies attack your character in a given round.

You see, in Dragon Warrior III, there were three different kinds of enemies...

Random-These guys had a 25% chance of attacking each character despite their spots.

Weighted-These enemies would attack your front character the most, the 2nd character the second most, and etc.

Non Weighted-These enemies will randomly select one of your character for that round, and whoever they choose, every single one of those types of enemies would attack that character and ONLY that character in that round.

As you can see, the Non Weighted enemies are especially deadly and I could've sworn I fought some of those in Chapter 2 on my way to Birdsong Tower. Just, pay special attention to whether or not the enemies seem to attack in these ways.

Well, the only real question I would have would be how often did you die (if at all), especially in the early going?

The early going? I never died once, it was exceedingly easy. It's only after the Padequia Cave that things were even close to tough, and that was only because I ignored your advice of not fighting enemies that could really damage your group with hit all attacks (as it turns out, those Fire Guys in the Kievs Cave could REALLY screw you up if you actually try to fight four of them at once).

After that, the only spots that gave me trouble were Balzack and the Shrine of Breaking Waves. Mainly, it was the Dragon Riders who pretty much spelled swift and immediate death if you fought two of them and couldn't run, and the Lapras looking sea dragons and their INSANELY high amount of health (I swear their HP was something in the 200-300).

[i]I never did get around to trying to beat the Lighthouse with only one Babble Shield. It will be harder, but certainly doable.[/i]

I don't think you'll have any trouble.  I found it to be incredibly easy on the DS version, in which you're not even allowed to get Metal Babble Shields (yeah, it's slightly easier in quite a bit of ways, but random encounter difficulty is NOT one of them.  As a matter of fact, the random encounters are actually HARDER in that version!).

[i]I still don't think they are worth it in chapter 5. They were in chapter 2 to help with the tournament, since Alena was alone. I believe there are only 3 or 4 strength seeds available that are not terribly out of the way to get. Each seed being a 50% boost in strength is nonsense. I have a save where a level 31 Alena has 157 strength (and I think that was with no strength seeds used). With 4 seeds, that becomes 169 strength, an improvement of 7 to 8%. Not too shabby, but not necessarily worth it, IMO.[/i]

No, not strength, that's not what the person said.  What he meant was in total damage done.

[i]Do you mean how the front of the party receives more hits than that back? I would think so, but I'm not 100% sure.[/i]

I would think so since Dragon Warrior III and IV seem to have the same mechanics.  Speaking of that, I have some advice I need to give you.  Pay special attention to how enemies attack your character in a given round.

You see, in Dragon Warrior III, there were three different kinds of enemies...

Random-These guys had a 25% chance of attacking each character despite their spots.

Weighted-These enemies would attack your front character the most, the 2nd character the second most, and etc.

Non Weighted-These enemies will randomly select one of your character for that round, and whoever they choose, every single one of those types of enemies would attack that character and ONLY that character in that round.

As you can see, the Non Weighted enemies are especially deadly and I could've sworn I fought some of those in Chapter 2 on my way to Birdsong Tower.  Just, pay special attention to whether or not the enemies seem to attack in these ways.

[i]Well, the only real question I would have would be how often did you die (if at all), especially in the early going?[/i]

The early going?  I never died once, it was exceedingly easy.  It's only after the Padequia Cave that things were even close to tough, and that was only because I ignored your advice of not fighting enemies that could really damage your group with hit all attacks (as it turns out, those Fire Guys in the Kievs Cave could REALLY screw you up if you actually try to fight four of them at once).

After that, the only spots that gave me trouble were Balzack and the Shrine of Breaking Waves.  Mainly, it was the Dragon Riders who pretty much spelled swift and immediate death if you fought two of them and couldn't run, and the Lapras looking sea dragons and their INSANELY high amount of health (I swear their HP was something in the 200-300).

ShinerCCC

2010-04-27 10:06:24 pm

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

Yes, Plesiodons have tons of HP, but can't do much damage. In the Shrine of Breaking Waves, the plan is to run from mostly everything because going there means you're sequence breaking.

My responses to whatever FQ just posted:
Skipping Woodsman's Shack is a good idea. I tend to make overly safe/pointless routes for speedruns early on, then end up cutting stuff later. That's how my early Faxanadu times went from 2 hours, to 1 hour, to 47 minutes...and how I removed stuff from Breakdown's route to get from 36 to 30 minutes.

Way to not read the whole thread again FQ, I suggested a second one for the Hero to borrow. It's to hold so he can cast FendSpell on himself to make Balzack+ immensely easier to fight. After that fight...I guess it's for another caster to hold in the Shrine of Breaking Waves for extra defense, other than that it would either go into storage or have Ragnar hold it and hope he holds it up during boss fights where it matters. But as for the early going, you could definitely kill off Nara after Lighthouse Bengal because of Taloon joining up shortly after.

Quote:

Two at Konenbur
One at Mintos
One at shrine east of Mintos
One at Riverton
One near Magic Key
One at Endor
One at old man's island
One at Seaside village
Two at Stancia
One next to Zenithian Armor

The run has no reason to visit Seaside Village overall, it's only for this one medal. The extra medal in the Shrine of Breaking Waves may be more accessible (fewer steps), but it is more dangerous to get because of the monsters there. They would probably take up more time anyway. Just something to consider, I guess.

Regarding Alena and the Strength Seeds, it's not about the endgame damage, it's about getting past the early breakpoint of "geez, I'm doing less than 10 damage with my Stiletto Earrings, I could do more with Iron Claw/Fire Claw so this seems like a waste of money" and into the seriously good damage. The increased chance of critical hits still outpaces this lower damage by far though, because a critical will do about 80 damage, and this is with Alena around level 16 (so 1/16 chance, pretty dang good). Given the excess of money the segmented run will have, getting early Stiletto Earrings is a no-brainer anyway. I'm trying to remember why I said "50% boost"...oh, should be a 40% boost, because the Stiletto Earrings add 5 attack power, so each point of strength makes them 1 base point stronger (20%), then they attack twice (40%). And since you can save up 2 or 3 for the very moment Alena joins you, that can make them seem a lot stronger when you first get them, you see.

The only Non-Weighted AI I recall are Mummies from Dragon Warrior II. I haven't noticed anything like that in Dragon Warrior IV, if anything they exhibit a bit of Etrian Odyssey-like behaviour, where an enemy with "Front Row Preference" will target the front row 90% of the time, and out of those, they have a 70% chance to attack the character with the most HP, 20% for middle value of HP, 10% for the least HP. I get the feeling that if monsters weren't so notoriously stupid, my speedrun party could have been wiped out 9 times out of 10, but they just loooove attacking beefy Ragnar and Hero on the turn I'm going to use Healall on them anyway. Random encounters in this game are usually easy, unless you're against overwhelming odds like in the Shrine of Breaking Waves.

I want to start coming up with changes to this route for single segment.

Chapter 1 would probably go the exact same; if I die in the tower just restart I guess.
Chapter 2 will take the most modifications, easily. Probably grinding in the desert, then getting Golden Bracelet, then taking it slow and easy until the tournament, and hoping Linguar isn't a dick to me.
Chapter 3 could go similar to the route I invented, it's actually pretty reliable if you don't die on the way to Bonmalmo, but that's not much of a setback if it happens once. Still leaving a Broad Sword for the Hero.
Chapter 4...we don't know how that's going to go even now. But obviously I'll have to get to Orin as safely as possible. Higher levels won't matter because Medical Herbs will always overheal, so I could just spend my initial 180 on a boatload of Herbs and some armour and try to go from there. I probably wouldn't bother with trying for Card of the Stars on Balzack. Ending weapons are Silver Tarot Cards and Poison Needle, bringing a spare Half Plate for sure.
Chapter 5 would be shockingly similar though.
Instead of Metal Babble Shields, grinding the Hero to level 19 for FendSpell may be necessary. I'd be using the Royal Crypt so Taloon/Alena/Mara/Brey for a Metal Babble team would be great because you get two Poison Needles and good chances for crits. I would definitely kill the Saroknight for the easy experience, and to use the Sphere of Silence on Bakor to eliminate the chance for Increase. Ironize on Esturk would be a good idea. I'd also get the Baron's Horn, duh. Might need Nara at level 29 for Barrier by the end, but I think Necrosaro would ruin me anyway, I don't think her AI casts Barrier at all.

Yes, Plesiodons have tons of HP, but can't do much damage. In the Shrine of Breaking Waves, the plan is to run from mostly everything because going there means you're sequence breaking.

My responses to whatever FQ just posted:
Skipping Woodsman's Shack is a good idea. I tend to make overly safe/pointless routes for speedruns early on, then end up cutting stuff later. That's how my early Faxanadu times went from 2 hours, to 1 hour, to 47 minutes...and how I removed stuff from Breakdown's route to get from 36 to 30 minutes.

Way to not read the whole thread again FQ, I suggested a second one for the Hero to borrow. It's to hold so he can cast FendSpell on himself to make Balzack+ immensely easier to fight. After that fight...I guess it's for another caster to hold in the Shrine of Breaking Waves for extra defense, other than that it would either go into storage or have Ragnar hold it and hope he holds it up during boss fights where it matters. But as for the early going, you could definitely kill off Nara after Lighthouse Bengal because of Taloon joining up shortly after.

[quote]Two at Konenbur
One at Mintos
One at shrine east of Mintos
One at Riverton
One near Magic Key
One at Endor
One at old man's island
One at Seaside village
Two at Stancia
One next to Zenithian Armor[/quote]
The run has no reason to visit Seaside Village overall, it's only for this one medal. The extra medal in the Shrine of Breaking Waves may be more accessible (fewer steps), but it is more dangerous to get because of the monsters there. They would probably take up more time anyway. Just something to consider, I guess.

Regarding Alena and the Strength Seeds, it's not about the endgame damage, it's about getting past the early breakpoint of "geez, I'm doing less than 10 damage with my Stiletto Earrings, I could do more with Iron Claw/Fire Claw so this seems like a waste of money" and into the seriously good damage. The increased chance of critical hits still outpaces this lower damage by far though, because a critical will do about 80 damage, and this is with Alena around level 16 (so 1/16 chance, pretty dang good). Given the excess of money the segmented run will have, getting early Stiletto Earrings is a no-brainer anyway. I'm trying to remember why I said "50% boost"...oh, should be a 40% boost, because the Stiletto Earrings add 5 attack power, so each point of strength makes them 1 base point stronger (20%), then they attack twice (40%). And since you can save up 2 or 3 for the very moment Alena joins you, that can make them seem a lot stronger when you first get them, you see.

The only Non-Weighted AI I recall are Mummies from Dragon Warrior II. I haven't noticed anything like that in Dragon Warrior IV, if anything they exhibit a bit of Etrian Odyssey-like behaviour, where an enemy with "Front Row Preference" will target the front row 90% of the time, and out of those, they have a 70% chance to attack the character with the most HP, 20% for middle value of HP, 10% for the least HP. I get the feeling that if monsters weren't so notoriously stupid, my speedrun party could have been wiped out 9 times out of 10, but they just loooove attacking beefy Ragnar and Hero on the turn I'm going to use Healall on them anyway. Random encounters in this game are usually easy, unless you're against overwhelming odds like in the Shrine of Breaking Waves.

I want to start coming up with changes to this route for single segment.

Chapter 1 would probably go the exact same; if I die in the tower just restart I guess.
Chapter 2 will take the most modifications, easily. Probably grinding in the desert, then getting Golden Bracelet, then taking it slow and easy until the tournament, and hoping Linguar isn't a dick to me.
Chapter 3 could go similar to the route I invented, it's actually pretty reliable if you don't die on the way to Bonmalmo, but that's not much of a setback if it happens once. Still leaving a Broad Sword for the Hero.
Chapter 4...we don't know how that's going to go even now. But obviously I'll have to get to Orin as safely as possible. Higher levels won't matter because Medical Herbs will always overheal, so I could just spend my initial 180 on a boatload of Herbs and some armour and try to go from there. I probably wouldn't bother with trying for Card of the Stars on Balzack. Ending weapons are Silver Tarot Cards and Poison Needle, bringing a spare Half Plate for sure.
Chapter 5 would be shockingly similar though.
Instead of Metal Babble Shields, grinding the Hero to level 19 for FendSpell may be necessary. I'd be using the Royal Crypt so Taloon/Alena/Mara/Brey for a Metal Babble team would be great because you get two Poison Needles and good chances for crits. I would definitely kill the Saroknight for the easy experience, and to use the Sphere of Silence on Bakor to eliminate the chance for Increase. Ironize on Esturk would be a good idea. I'd also get the Baron's Horn, duh. Might need Nara at level 29 for Barrier by the end, but I think Necrosaro would ruin me anyway, I don't think her AI casts Barrier at all.

FionordeQuester

2010-04-27 10:46:31 pm

My responses to whatever FQ just posted:
Skipping Woodsman's Shack is a good idea. I tend to make overly safe/pointless routes for speedruns early on, then end up cutting stuff later. That's how my early Faxanadu times went from 2 hours, to 1 hour, to 47 minutes...and how I removed stuff from Breakdown's route to get from 36 to 30 minutes.

I see.

Way to not read the whole thread again FQ, I suggested a second one for the Hero to borrow. It's to hold so he can cast FendSpell on himself to make Balzack+ immensely easier to fight. After that fight...I guess it's for another caster to hold in the Shrine of Breaking Waves for extra defense, other than that it would either go into storage or have Ragnar hold it and hope he holds it up during boss fights where it matters. But as for the early going, you could definitely kill off Nara after Lighthouse Bengal because of Taloon joining up shortly after.

I did actually read the whole thread...I just didn't look at some posts very carefully. I tend to skim these threads, you know? Sorry. And anyways, I still think the Second Metal Shield is pointless if it's only going to be useful for that ONE fight against Balzack. It's not even the Hero that has the most trouble surviving, and Balzack goes down easily enough anyways as long as you have some luck behind you (I've fought him about 7-10 times, and I won with all members intact about half those times). This IS segmented after all.

[i]My responses to whatever FQ just posted:
Skipping Woodsman's Shack is a good idea. I tend to make overly safe/pointless routes for speedruns early on, then end up cutting stuff later. That's how my early Faxanadu times went from 2 hours, to 1 hour, to 47 minutes...and how I removed stuff from Breakdown's route to get from 36 to 30 minutes.[/i]

I see.

[i]Way to not read the whole thread again FQ, I suggested a second one for the Hero to borrow. It's to hold so he can cast FendSpell on himself to make Balzack+ immensely easier to fight. After that fight...I guess it's for another caster to hold in the Shrine of Breaking Waves for extra defense, other than that it would either go into storage or have Ragnar hold it and hope he holds it up during boss fights where it matters. But as for the early going, you could definitely kill off Nara after Lighthouse Bengal because of Taloon joining up shortly after.[/i]

I did actually read the whole thread...I just didn't look at some posts very carefully.  I tend to skim these threads, you know?  Sorry.  And anyways, I still think the Second Metal Shield is pointless if it's only going to be useful for that ONE fight against Balzack.  It's not even the Hero that has the most trouble surviving, and Balzack goes down easily enough anyways as long as you have some luck behind you (I've fought him about 7-10 times, and I won with all members intact about half those times).  This IS segmented after all.

chessjerk

Edit history:

chessjerk: 2010-04-28 08:45:24 pm

2010-04-28 06:49:24 am

OK, here's my newest route from Chapter 4 all the way to the end:

Chapter 4

Segment 18

Get Medical Herb in jar, 80 gold on floor (left side, second row, right seat), Strength Seed in second drawer
Buy Silk Robe for Mara
Walk to Kievs, fight 2 battles on the way for herb money
Rest @ Kievs
Get nuts in right jar in house
Sell Dancer Costume, nuts, buy Feather Hats for both, equip
Spend rest of money on medical herbs (give to Mara)
Go to cave
Get Orin (left fork)
Party: Orin/Nara/Mara
Get nuts, Sphere of Silence
Party: Nara/Mara/Orin
Remove armor, suicide
Respawn in Monbaraba, reequip armor
Revive Nara
Party: Orin/Nara/Mara
Go to Keeleon, leave
Go to Haville, rest
Buy Scale Shield (Nara), equip
Save

Segment 19

Go to Aktemto, get Mystic Acorns, Silver Tarot Cards (Nara) equip, Gunpowder Jar
Party: Nara/Mara/Orin, heal Orin
Suicide
Respawn in Haville
Party: Orin/Nara/Mara, revive, save

Segment 20

Get a battle with King Slimes + Card of stars
Go to Haville, rest
Sell Mara’s Feather Hat
Sell Nara’s Copper Sword, seed, nuts, acorns, buy Half Plate for Nara, equip
Save

What? No Venomous Dagger at all?

Segment 21

Return to Keeleon, use Gunpowder Jar outside Chancellor’s room
Beat Balzack (Sphere of Silence/Sap, then attack and keep healed)
Lose to Keeleon (can’t win)
Get Boarding Pass
Return to Haville, get on ship
Go down, talk to girl in top room only
Talk to the captain

Chapter 5

Segment 22

Talk to father
Talk to mother
Wait for fighting
Search where Celia was, get Feather Hat
In cave, get bonus coins
Go to Endor
Talk to Nara
Move Half Plate and Scale Shield to Hero
Save

Segment 23

Go to casino, bet 100 at poker, double up to 51,200 at poker
Talk to Mara
Buy Staff of Jubilation, Metal Babble Shield for Mara
Move Feather Hat from Hero to Mara
Party order Mara/Hero/Nara, reequip
Mara: Jubilation/Silk/Babble/Feather
Hero: Copper/Half/Scale/Leather, Basic Clothes
Nara: Tarot/Silk/none/Feather, Gunpowder Jar, Boarding Pass
Save

I discovered the Staff of Jubiliation is even more powerful than any other weapon Mara can use at this point. When it hits an enemy, they smile affectionately, but it doesn't cost them a turn. When she uses it on them, if it hits, their next turn is canceled since they are smiling instead.

Segment 24

Go to Statuette cave, get Broad Sword (Hero)
Kill a Metal Slime
Outside, Return to Branca, rest, save

Segment 25

Walk to cave, heal Hero before losing party
Fight enemies, healing in between battles
Party: Mara/Hero/Nara
Get Symbol of Faith, walk out of cave
Return to Branca, walk to desert
Get wagon
Party: Mara/Hector/Hero/Nara
(Strength Seed?)
Walk to Konenber, rest
Get two Small Medals, inside each ship, bottom floor, lower drawers
Save

Strength Seed #1?

Segment 26

Go to tower, skip treasure (kill a Metal Slime if possible)
Beat boss (Offensive, Nara (Sleep), Hero Expel the Flamers)
Throw Fire of Serenity into flame
Return to Konenber, rest
Talk to Taloon, board ship
Party: Mara/Hero/Taloon/Nara
Move one SOM from Taloon to Mara/Nara/Hero, equip on Hero
Sail to Mintos
Sell Taloon’s 3 extra SOM
Sell Hero’s Copper Sword, Basic Clothes, Broad Sword
Get Small Medal
Walk to shrine east of Mintos (one Small Medal in back)
Walk to Soretta, rest, save

Segment 27

Go to cave, get Robe of Serenity, 800 gold, Padequia Seed, Outside
Return to Soretta, talk to King to get root
Return to Mintos
Sell Robe of Serenity
Sell Nara’s stuff (Tarot, Silk, Feather, SOM)
Sell Mara's Silk Robe
Give root to Cristo, get Alena/Cristo/Brey
Go upstairs, Return to Soretta
Move Mara’s SOM and Babble Shield to Cristo
Move Mara's Feather Hat to Alena
Move Alena's Wooden Hat to Cristo
Reequip Cristo & Alena
Form team (Brey/Mara/Nara)
Use No MP, suicide
Form team (Hero/Cristo/Taloon/Alena)
Hero: SOM/Half/Scale/Leather
Cristo: Jubilation/none/Babble/Wooden, SOM
Taloon: SOM/Iron/none/none
Alena: Iron/Chain/Feather, Thief Key
Return to Mintos
Sail SSW to Riverton, get Small Medal, rest for daytime
Sell Hero’s Leather Hat, Scale Shield, Half Plate
Sell Cristo's Wooden Hat
Buy Dragon Mail, Dragon Shield, Iron Mask for Hero
Buy Sacred Robe, Iron Helmet for Cristo
Reequip Hero and Cristo
Sail S, then W to Monbaraba
Party: Taloon/Hero/Cristo/Alena
Rest, save

With all of the stuff I've sold in the last two segments, I should have enough gold to buy everything.

Segment 28

Make sure Hero learns Outside at level 13
Sail S, then W, then N to cave
Unequip Taloon’s Iron Apron, let Taloon die
Get Lamp of Darkness, Small Medal, Magic Key (Hero needs 24 MP left)
Outside, Return to Endor, use Lamp (if necessary)
Get Pink Leotard (Alena), Small Medal (right drawer), equip
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Without a Metal Slime kill in the tower two segments ago, I need to be careful here since this is normally the time Hero gets to level 13, and he MUST learn Outside at 13.

Segment 29

Return to Endor
Sail S to Old Man’s Hut (one Small Medal, right jar)
Sail S to Haville, leave
Sail W to Aktemto, leave
Sail N to Seaside Village (one Small Medal in front of statue in daytime)
Sail N to Santeem
Sail N, then E to Stancia
Get 2 Small Medals (stairs to right, 2nd jar; in back of castle, 2nd drawer), talk to old man on 2nd floor
Return to Monbaraba, get Panon
Return to Konenbur
Party: Hero/Cristo/Panon/Alena
Sail E, then N to Rosaville
Sell Hero’s SOM
Sell Cristo’s SOM
Sell Alena’s Chain Mail
Sell Taloon’s SOM, Iron Apron
Buy Sword of Lethargy (Hero), equip
Return to Soretta, rest, save

I couldn't afford the Stiletto Earrings yet, but that's OK, since their damage sucks right now. Maybe they would suck less after some Strength Seeds? Hmm...

Segment 30

Return to Rosaville
Sail to cave, get 1 Small Medal and Zenithian Armor
Walk back to ship, THEN cast Outside (lose wagon otherwise)
Sail to king, get 2 Swords of Miracles (Hero/Cristo), equip Cristo only
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Took me a while to figure out how to keep the wagon with me after warping out of the cave.

Segment 31

Return to Haville, walk to Keeleon, kill Keeleon (sleep)
Return to Stancia, party: Panon/Hero, get Zenithian Helm
Return to Soretta
Party: Hero/Ragnar/Cristo/Alena
Move Sword of Miracles, Dragon Mail/Shield and Iron Mask from Hero to Ragnar
Move Ragnar’s Scale Shield to Hero
Move Ragnar’s SOM, Half Plate to Nara, reequip
Hero: Lethargy/Zenithian/Scale/Zenithian
Ragnar: Miracles/Dragon/Dragon/Mask
Cristo: Miracles/Sacred/Babble/Iron
Alena: Iron/Leotard/Feather
Rest, save

Segment 32

Return to Santeem, kill Balzack (sleep)
Get Magma Staff, give to Hero
(Strength Seed?)
Return to Rosaville
Sail to Gardenbur
Party: Hero/Nara
Get Fire Claw (Alena), equip
Get arrested
Walk out
Party: Hero/Ragnar/Cristo/Alena
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Segment 33

Return to Gardenbur
Go to cave, left, left, up, down, to second floor
Second floor, left, down
(Strength Seed?)
Kill Bakor
Return to Gardenbur
Talk to Queen for Final Key, right basement for Zenithian Shield, walk out
Return to Rosaville
Sell Hero’s Full Plate, Scale Shield
Sell Alena’s Iron Claw, Fire Claw
Buy Stiletto Earrings (Alena)
Reequip Hero and Alena
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Segment 34

Return to Endor, go to Shrine south of Endor
Go all the way down, kill at least five Metal Babbles
Keep to outside on bottom floor
Go to spring on second floor, straight down to stairs
Left on third floor, get Staff of Transform, Outside
Return to Soretta, rest, save (level 25?)

About time I got to the leveling segment! I'm not sure how viable killing 5 Metal Babbles in one trip through the shrine is, but we'll see!

Segment 35

Return to Riverton, go to colossus
First Floor - up
Second Floor - right
Fourth Floor - right, down
Fifth Floor - all the way around
Seventh Floor - out left eye
Pull lever, jump out right ear
Go to monster castle
Use Staff or Transform, sit in first seat, watch event, take one step out of room
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Segment 36

Return to Aktemto, go left, right, up, right to lower floor
Go right, left, up, right to underground palace, heal
Beat Esturk (Use No MP on first turn, Defensive after that should make Cristo use Increase, he and Hero heal while Ragnar and Alena attack)
Get Gas Canister, Outside when out of palace
(Strength Seed?)
Return to Riverton, give up Canister, rest, get balloon
Return to Soretta, create party (Hero/Ragnar/Cristo), save

This segment is going to be hell, I just know it, even with a healing spring.

Segment 37

Fly N to World Tree, buy Shield of Strength (Ragnar), equip
Go right, down, up, left, up-right, get Lucia, get Zenithian Sword
Return to Soretta, create party (Hero/Ragnar/Cristo/Alena), rest, save

Segment 38

Return to Konenber, fly to island
Walk to Zenithian Tower, equip Zenithian Sword, then change back to Lethargy
Right, second entrance, up, down, left, left, down, get to Zenithia
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Segment 39

Return to Zenithia, go left, right (down stairs), jump down
Go to final cave
Go up, get Dress of Radiance (Alena), equip
Go back and around, into second opening
Go around to stairs
Go left, down onto moving floor, then on to top right moving floor
Down stairs, sail right to stairs
(Strength Seed?)
Go to castle
Jump down, get Mirror Shield for Ragnar, equip
Exit, go to shrine, rest, save

Segment 40

Return to Final Refuge
Bottom left boss, kill him
Walk out, Return, rest, save

Segment 41

Return to Final Refuge
Top left boss, kill him
Walk out, Return, rest, save

Segment 42

Return to Final Refuge
Bottom right boss, kill him
Walk out, Return, rest, save

Segment 43

Return to Final Refuge
Top right boss, kill him
Walk out, Return, rest, save

Segment 44

Return to Final Refuge
Go to castle
Level up to 35 (Healusall)
Change Alena to Pink Leotard
Outside, rest, save

Segment 45

Kill Necrosaro (sleep)

These last six segments are still tentative, since I don't think I can reliably kill more than one guardian at a time, and I'll not 100% certain how much I should level up to beat Necrosaro. Meh, we'll see, I suppose.

OK, here's my newest route from Chapter 4 all the way to the end:

Chapter 4

Segment 18

Get Medical Herb in jar, 80 gold on floor (left side, second row, right seat), Strength Seed in second drawer
Buy Silk Robe for Mara
Walk to Kievs, fight 2 battles on the way for herb money
Rest @ Kievs
Get nuts in right jar in house
Sell Dancer Costume, nuts, buy Feather Hats for both, equip
Spend rest of money on medical herbs (give to Mara)
Go to cave
Get Orin (left fork)
Party: Orin/Nara/Mara
Get nuts, Sphere of Silence
Party: Nara/Mara/Orin
Remove armor, suicide
Respawn in Monbaraba, reequip armor
Revive Nara
Party: Orin/Nara/Mara
Go to Keeleon, leave
Go to Haville, rest
Buy Scale Shield (Nara), equip
Save

Segment 19

Go to Aktemto, get Mystic Acorns, Silver Tarot Cards (Nara) equip, Gunpowder Jar
Party: Nara/Mara/Orin, heal Orin
Suicide
Respawn in Haville
Party: Orin/Nara/Mara, revive, save

Segment 20

Get a battle with King Slimes + Card of stars
Go to Haville, rest
Sell Mara’s Feather Hat
Sell Nara’s Copper Sword, seed, nuts, acorns, buy Half Plate for Nara, equip
Save

What? No Venomous Dagger at all?

Segment 21

Return to Keeleon, use Gunpowder Jar outside Chancellor’s room
Beat Balzack (Sphere of Silence/Sap, then attack and keep healed)
Lose to Keeleon (can’t win)
Get Boarding Pass
Return to Haville, get on ship
Go down, talk to girl in top room only
Talk to the captain

Chapter 5

Segment 22

Talk to father
Talk to mother
Wait for fighting
Search where Celia was, get Feather Hat
In cave, get bonus coins
Go to Endor
Talk to Nara
Move Half Plate and Scale Shield to Hero
Save

Segment 23

Go to casino, bet 100 at poker, double up to 51,200 at poker
Talk to Mara
Buy Staff of Jubilation, Metal Babble Shield for Mara
Move Feather Hat from Hero to Mara
Party order Mara/Hero/Nara, reequip
Mara: Jubilation/Silk/Babble/Feather
Hero: Copper/Half/Scale/Leather, Basic Clothes
Nara: Tarot/Silk/none/Feather, Gunpowder Jar, Boarding Pass
Save

I discovered the Staff of Jubiliation is even more powerful than any other weapon Mara can use at this point. When it hits an enemy, they smile affectionately, but it doesn't cost them a turn. When she uses it on them, if it hits, their next turn is canceled since they are smiling instead.

Segment 24

Go to Statuette cave, get Broad Sword (Hero)
Kill a Metal Slime
Outside, Return to Branca, rest, save

Segment 25

Walk to cave, heal Hero before losing party
Fight enemies, healing in between battles
Party: Mara/Hero/Nara
Get Symbol of Faith, walk out of cave
Return to Branca, walk to desert
Get wagon
Party: Mara/Hector/Hero/Nara
(Strength Seed?)
Walk to Konenber, rest
Get two Small Medals, inside each ship, bottom floor, lower drawers
Save

Strength Seed #1?

Segment 26

Go to tower, skip treasure (kill a Metal Slime if possible)
Beat boss (Offensive, Nara (Sleep), Hero Expel the Flamers)
Throw Fire of Serenity into flame
Return to Konenber, rest
Talk to Taloon, board ship
Party: Mara/Hero/Taloon/Nara
Move one SOM from Taloon to Mara/Nara/Hero, equip on Hero
Sail to Mintos
Sell Taloon’s 3 extra SOM
Sell Hero’s Copper Sword, Basic Clothes, Broad Sword
Get Small Medal
Walk to shrine east of Mintos (one Small Medal in back)
Walk to Soretta, rest, save

Segment 27

Go to cave, get Robe of Serenity, 800 gold, Padequia Seed, Outside
Return to Soretta, talk to King to get root
Return to Mintos
Sell Robe of Serenity
Sell Nara’s stuff (Tarot, Silk, Feather, SOM)
Sell Mara's Silk Robe
Give root to Cristo, get Alena/Cristo/Brey
Go upstairs, Return to Soretta
Move Mara’s SOM and Babble Shield to Cristo
Move Mara's Feather Hat to Alena
Move Alena's Wooden Hat to Cristo
Reequip Cristo & Alena
Form team (Brey/Mara/Nara)
Use No MP, suicide
Form team (Hero/Cristo/Taloon/Alena)	
Hero: SOM/Half/Scale/Leather
Cristo: Jubilation/none/Babble/Wooden, SOM
Taloon: SOM/Iron/none/none
Alena: Iron/Chain/Feather, Thief Key
Return to Mintos
Sail SSW to Riverton, get Small Medal, rest for daytime
Sell Hero’s Leather Hat, Scale Shield, Half Plate
Sell Cristo's Wooden Hat
Buy Dragon Mail, Dragon Shield, Iron Mask for Hero
Buy Sacred Robe, Iron Helmet for Cristo
Reequip Hero and Cristo
Sail S, then W to Monbaraba
Party: Taloon/Hero/Cristo/Alena
Rest, save

With all of the stuff I've sold in the last two segments, I should have enough gold to buy everything.

Segment 28

Make sure Hero learns Outside at level 13
Sail S, then W, then N to cave
Unequip Taloon’s Iron Apron, let Taloon die
Get Lamp of Darkness, Small Medal, Magic Key (Hero needs 24 MP left)
Outside, Return to Endor, use Lamp (if necessary)
Get Pink Leotard (Alena), Small Medal (right drawer), equip
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Without a Metal Slime kill in the tower two segments ago, I need to be careful here since this is normally the time Hero gets to level 13, and he MUST learn Outside at 13.

Segment 29

Return to Endor
Sail S to Old Man’s Hut (one Small Medal, right jar)
Sail S to Haville, leave
Sail W to Aktemto, leave
Sail N to Seaside Village (one Small Medal in front of statue in daytime)
Sail N to Santeem
Sail N, then E to Stancia
Get 2 Small Medals (stairs to right, 2nd jar; in back of castle, 2nd drawer), talk to old man on 2nd floor
Return to Monbaraba, get Panon
Return to Konenbur
Party: Hero/Cristo/Panon/Alena
Sail E, then N to Rosaville
Sell Hero’s SOM
Sell Cristo’s SOM
Sell Alena’s Chain Mail
Sell Taloon’s SOM, Iron Apron
Buy Sword of Lethargy (Hero), equip
Return to Soretta, rest, save

I couldn't afford the Stiletto Earrings yet, but that's OK, since their damage sucks right now. Maybe they would suck less after some Strength Seeds? Hmm...

Segment 30

Return to Rosaville
Sail to cave, get 1 Small Medal and Zenithian Armor
Walk back to ship, THEN cast Outside (lose wagon otherwise)
Sail to king, get 2 Swords of Miracles (Hero/Cristo), equip Cristo only
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Took me a while to figure out how to keep the wagon with me after warping out of the cave.

Segment 31

Return to Haville, walk to Keeleon, kill Keeleon (sleep)
Return to Stancia, party: Panon/Hero, get Zenithian Helm
Return to Soretta
Party: Hero/Ragnar/Cristo/Alena
Move Sword of Miracles, Dragon Mail/Shield and Iron Mask from Hero to Ragnar
Move Ragnar’s Scale Shield to Hero
Move Ragnar’s SOM, Half Plate to Nara, reequip
Hero: Lethargy/Zenithian/Scale/Zenithian
Ragnar: Miracles/Dragon/Dragon/Mask
Cristo: Miracles/Sacred/Babble/Iron
Alena: Iron/Leotard/Feather
Rest, save

Segment 32

Return to Santeem, kill Balzack (sleep)
Get Magma Staff, give to Hero
(Strength Seed?)
Return to Rosaville
Sail to Gardenbur
Party: Hero/Nara
Get Fire Claw (Alena), equip
Get arrested
Walk out
Party: Hero/Ragnar/Cristo/Alena
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Segment 33

Return to Gardenbur
Go to cave, left, left, up, down, to second floor
Second floor, left, down
(Strength Seed?)
Kill Bakor
Return to Gardenbur
Talk to Queen for Final Key, right basement for Zenithian Shield, walk out
Return to Rosaville
Sell Hero’s Full Plate, Scale Shield
Sell Alena’s Iron Claw, Fire Claw
Buy Stiletto Earrings (Alena)
Reequip Hero and Alena
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Segment 34

Return to Endor, go to Shrine south of Endor
Go all the way down, kill at least five Metal Babbles
Keep to outside on bottom floor
Go to spring on second floor, straight down to stairs
Left on third floor, get Staff of Transform, Outside
Return to Soretta, rest, save (level 25?)

About time I got to the leveling segment! I'm not sure how viable killing 5 Metal Babbles in one trip through the shrine is, but we'll see!

Segment 35

Return to Riverton, go to colossus
First Floor - up
Second Floor - right
Fourth Floor - right, down
Fifth Floor - all the way around
Seventh Floor - out left eye
Pull lever, jump out right ear
Go to monster castle
Use Staff or Transform, sit in first seat, watch event, take one step out of room
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Segment 36

Return to Aktemto, go left, right, up, right to lower floor
Go right, left, up, right to underground palace, heal
Beat Esturk (Use No MP on first turn, Defensive after that should make Cristo use Increase, he and Hero heal while Ragnar and Alena attack)
Get Gas Canister, Outside when out of palace
(Strength Seed?)
Return to Riverton, give up Canister, rest, get balloon
Return to Soretta, create party (Hero/Ragnar/Cristo), save

This segment is going to be hell, I just know it, even with a healing spring.

Segment 37

Fly N to World Tree, buy Shield of Strength (Ragnar), equip
Go right, down, up, left, up-right, get Lucia, get Zenithian Sword
Return to Soretta, create party (Hero/Ragnar/Cristo/Alena), rest, save

Segment 38

Return to Konenber, fly to island
Walk to Zenithian Tower, equip Zenithian Sword, then change back to Lethargy
Right, second entrance, up, down, left, left, down, get to Zenithia
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Segment 39

Return to Zenithia, go left, right (down stairs), jump down
Go to final cave
Go up, get Dress of Radiance (Alena), equip
Go back and around, into second opening
Go around to stairs
Go left, down onto moving floor, then on to top right moving floor
Down stairs, sail right to stairs
(Strength Seed?)
Go to castle
Jump down, get Mirror Shield for Ragnar, equip
Exit, go to shrine, rest, save

Segment 40

Return to Final Refuge
Bottom left boss, kill him
Walk out, Return, rest, save

Segment 41

Return to Final Refuge
Top left boss, kill him
Walk out, Return, rest, save

Segment 42

Return to Final Refuge
Bottom right boss, kill him
Walk out, Return, rest, save

Segment 43

Return to Final Refuge
Top right boss, kill him
Walk out, Return, rest, save

Segment 44

Return to Final Refuge
Go to castle
Level up to 35 (Healusall)
Change Alena to Pink Leotard
Outside, rest, save

Segment 45

Kill Necrosaro (sleep)

These last six segments are still tentative, since I don't think I can reliably kill more than one guardian at a time, and I'll not 100% certain how much I should level up to beat Necrosaro. Meh, we'll see, I suppose.

ShinerCCC

2010-04-28 07:57:05 pm

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

The route looks solid, CJ. But the biggest flaw is that your hero is female, so you were using the wrong pronoun =P

- Kudos for finding the fastest way to make the ship sail in Chapter 4. =D
- Staff of Jubilation is a brilliant idea.
- I like the use of Fire Claw until Bakor, the whole Strength Seed thing might not be an issue that way.
- I don't recall Esturk giving me any trouble, I killed him on my first try
- Double check my save states, I think I beat Necrosaro at level 31 or so. I think my hero learned Healusall, but I never used it, your characters' max HP isn't high enough for it to be worthwhile. The Sage's Stone in the castle is all you need, but who would be the best character to give it to? Probably the Hero...
- You didn't grab the Sword of Decimation anywhere? It was instrumental in beating Necrosaro because I needed to lower his defense in his final form to stand a chance. It's helpful in all the previous forms too but you have to start over on every new form.
- Why hand off the Sword of Malice and Half Plate to Nara? Needed inventory space and didn't need to sell them?
- For the corner bosses in the Evil World, kill the left side in one segment and then the right side in the next segment. They aren't very hard at all and I don't think the time it takes to walk that far out again will be compensated by any optimization. I suggest the left side first because Infurnus Shadow will drop a Sword of Miracles for you, which you could give to CJ to increase her offense a lot (although sleep would be pretty handy against Radimvice? I like using the Zenithian Shield to put up Bounce for him so he's quite harmless anyway.)

I think I mentioned my tactics for the corner bosses in a previous post but here's the short version:
Gigademon: Transform into Cristo, cast Increase and Surround a lot
Infurnus Shadow: just attack and heal
Radimvice: let your teammates kill the Demighouls, put up Bounce and attack Radimvice
Anderoug: He's either the hardest or easiest, kind of depends on luck. Maybe he does deserve to get his own segment...luckily you go after him first if you split the right side into a segment because he's the bottom right. Choose the Offensive tactic and Cristo's Beat spell will save a lot of time. Defeat will wipe out reinforced groups just as well.

If you're still going to level at the end I suspect the hills in Gottside are best, at least according to what the one guide on GameFAQs says. Apparently King Metals are there and if a Firebane his Ragnar's Mirror Shield, that King Metal is so dead.

I'm going away all summer so this run might be finished by the time I'm back! Good luck chessjerk!

The route looks solid, CJ. But the biggest flaw is that your hero is female, so you were using the wrong pronoun =P

- Kudos for finding the fastest way to make the ship sail in Chapter 4. =D
- Staff of Jubilation is a brilliant idea.
- I like the use of Fire Claw until Bakor, the whole Strength Seed thing might not be an issue that way.
- I don't recall Esturk giving me any trouble, I killed him on my first try
- Double check my save states, I think I beat Necrosaro at level 31 or so. I think my hero learned Healusall, but I never used it, your characters' max HP isn't high enough for it to be worthwhile. The Sage's Stone in the castle is all you need, but who would be the best character to give it to? Probably the Hero...
- You didn't grab the Sword of Decimation anywhere? It was instrumental in beating Necrosaro because I needed to lower his defense in his final form to stand a chance. It's helpful in all the previous forms too but you have to start over on every new form.
- Why hand off the Sword of Malice and Half Plate to Nara? Needed inventory space and didn't need to sell them?
- For the corner bosses in the Evil World, kill the left side in one segment and then the right side in the next segment. They aren't very hard at all and I don't think the time it takes to walk that far out again will be compensated by any optimization. I suggest the left side first because Infurnus Shadow will drop a Sword of Miracles for you, which you could give to CJ to increase her offense a lot (although sleep would be pretty handy against Radimvice? I like using the Zenithian Shield to put up Bounce for him so he's quite harmless anyway.)

I think I mentioned my tactics for the corner bosses in a previous post but here's the short version:
Gigademon: Transform into Cristo, cast Increase and Surround a lot
Infurnus Shadow: just attack and heal
Radimvice: let your teammates kill the Demighouls, put up Bounce and attack Radimvice
Anderoug: He's either the hardest or easiest, kind of depends on luck. Maybe he does deserve to get his own segment...luckily you go after him first if you split the right side into a segment because he's the bottom right. Choose the Offensive tactic and Cristo's Beat spell will save a lot of time. Defeat will wipe out reinforced groups just as well.

If you're still going to level at the end I suspect the hills in Gottside are best, at least according to what the one guide on GameFAQs says. Apparently King Metals are there and if a Firebane his Ragnar's Mirror Shield, that King Metal is so dead.

I'm going away all summer so this run might be finished by the time I'm back! Good luck chessjerk!

FionordeQuester

2010-04-28 08:01:48 pm

What I want to know is why you use Mara later on, and why you use only a three man team on the segment that, "you know is gonna be hell".

chessjerk

2010-04-28 08:44:45 pm

Quote from ShinerCCC:

The route looks solid, CJ. But the biggest flaw is that your hero is female, so you were using the wrong pronoun =P

D'oh, my bad. Smiley

Quote:

- I don't recall Esturk giving me any trouble, I killed him on my first try

It isn't just Esturk, it's also getting to and from him. The battles in that area are quite nasty.

Quote:

- Double check my save states, I think I beat Necrosaro at level 31 or so. I think my hero learned Healusall, but I never used it, your characters' max HP isn't high enough for it to be worthwhile. The Sage's Stone in the castle is all you need, but who would be the best character to give it to? Probably the Hero...

I think I learned it at level 32. I wasn't even going to get the Sage's Stone since it's kinda out of the way, but it may be a necessary evil. I'd almost certainly have to dedicate another segment to getting it, since Necrosaro himself is no guarantee.

Quote:

- You didn't grab the Sword of Decimation anywhere? It was instrumental in beating Necrosaro because I needed to lower his defense in his final form to stand a chance. It's helpful in all the previous forms too but you have to start over on every new form.

Hmmm...maybe I can grab it when I Return to Konenbur to fly to Zenithian Tower?

Quote:

- Why hand off the Sword of Malice and Half Plate to Nara? Needed inventory space and didn't need to sell them?

Mostly just to get the damn SOM away from him to keep him from using it when I don't want him to (especially vs. Metal Babbles). Ragnar's intelligence is low for a reason. Smiley

Although, yes, moving the armor doesn't accomplish much.

Quote:

- For the corner bosses in the Evil World, kill the left side in one segment and then the right side in the next segment. They aren't very hard at all and I don't think the time it takes to walk that far out again will be compensated by any optimization. I suggest the left side first because Infurnus Shadow will drop a Sword of Miracles for you, which you could give to CJ to increase her offense a lot (although sleep would be pretty handy against Radimvice? I like using the Zenithian Shield to put up Bounce for him so he's quite harmless anyway.)

Sleep works on all of them. Maybe use the Sword of Lethargy until they fall asleep, then switch to the Sword of Miracles when they are asleep?

Quote:

I think I mentioned my tactics for the corner bosses in a previous post but here's the short version:
Gigademon: Transform into Cristo, cast Increase and Surround a lot
Infurnus Shadow: just attack and heal
Radimvice: let your teammates kill the Demighouls, put up Bounce and attack Radimvice
Anderoug: He's either the hardest or easiest, kind of depends on luck. Maybe he does deserve to get his own segment...luckily you go after him first if you split the right side into a segment because he's the bottom right. Choose the Offensive tactic and Cristo's Beat spell will save a lot of time. Defeat will wipe out reinforced groups just as well.

Your strategies using Transform were useless to me since I don't think I've ever learned Transform by the time I get to that point. The FAQ says it is learned at level 30, I think I usually get to level 30 during these four boss fights.

Quote:

If you're still going to level at the end I suspect the hills in Gottside are best, at least according to what the one guide on GameFAQs says. Apparently King Metals are there and if a Firebane his Ragnar's Mirror Shield, that King Metal is so dead.

This is true, but I would prefer the castle section of the final cave, since King Metals show up there with contingents of Metal Babbles as well. Firebane=dead King Metal, Firebal=dead Metal Babble.

Quote:

I'm going away all summer so this run might be finished by the time I'm back! Good luck chessjerk!

Thanks!

Quote:

What I want to know is why you use Mara later on, and why you use only a three man team on the segment that, "you know is gonna be hell".

I'm not using Mara, don't know why her name is in there. That should be Cristo, obviously. *fix'd*

Also, it's the Esturk segment that's going to be hell, and that will be a four person party. The three person party is for the World Tree.

[quote="ShinerCCC"]
The route looks solid, CJ. But the biggest flaw is that your hero is female, so you were using the wrong pronoun =P[/quote]

D'oh, my bad. :)

[quote]- I don't recall Esturk giving me any trouble, I killed him on my first try[/quote]

It isn't just Esturk, it's also getting to and from him. The battles in that area are quite nasty.

[quote]- Double check my save states, I think I beat Necrosaro at level 31 or so. I think my hero learned Healusall, but I never used it, your characters' max HP isn't high enough for it to be worthwhile. The Sage's Stone in the castle is all you need, but who would be the best character to give it to? Probably the Hero...[/quote]

I think I learned it at level 32. I wasn't even going to get the Sage's Stone since it's kinda out of the way, but it may be a necessary evil. I'd almost certainly have to dedicate another segment to getting it, since Necrosaro himself is no guarantee.

[quote]- You didn't grab the Sword of Decimation anywhere? It was instrumental in beating Necrosaro because I needed to lower his defense in his final form to stand a chance. It's helpful in all the previous forms too but you have to start over on every new form.[/quote]

Hmmm...maybe I can grab it when I Return to Konenbur to fly to Zenithian Tower?

[quote]- Why hand off the Sword of Malice and Half Plate to Nara? Needed inventory space and didn't need to sell them?[/quote]

Mostly just to get the damn SOM away from him to keep him from using it when I don't want him to (especially vs. Metal Babbles). Ragnar's intelligence is low for a reason. :)

Although, yes, moving the armor doesn't accomplish much.

[quote]- For the corner bosses in the Evil World, kill the left side in one segment and then the right side in the next segment. They aren't very hard at all and I don't think the time it takes to walk that far out again will be compensated by any optimization. I suggest the left side first because Infurnus Shadow will drop a Sword of Miracles for you, which you could give to CJ to increase her offense a lot (although sleep would be pretty handy against Radimvice? I like using the Zenithian Shield to put up Bounce for him so he's quite harmless anyway.)[/quote]

Sleep works on all of them. Maybe use the Sword of Lethargy until they fall asleep, then switch to the Sword of Miracles when they are asleep?

[quote]I think I mentioned my tactics for the corner bosses in a previous post but here's the short version:
Gigademon: Transform into Cristo, cast Increase and Surround a lot
Infurnus Shadow: just attack and heal
Radimvice: let your teammates kill the Demighouls, put up Bounce and attack Radimvice
Anderoug: He's either the hardest or easiest, kind of depends on luck. Maybe he does deserve to get his own segment...luckily you go after him first if you split the right side into a segment because he's the bottom right. Choose the Offensive tactic and Cristo's Beat spell will save a lot of time. Defeat will wipe out reinforced groups just as well.[/quote]

Your strategies using Transform were useless to me since I don't think I've ever learned Transform by the time I get to that point. The FAQ says it is learned at level 30, I think I usually get to level 30 during these four boss fights.

[quote]If you're still going to level at the end I suspect the hills in Gottside are best, at least according to what the one guide on GameFAQs says. Apparently King Metals are there and if a Firebane his Ragnar's Mirror Shield, that King Metal is so dead.[/quote]

This is true, but I would prefer the castle section of the final cave, since King Metals show up there with contingents of Metal Babbles as well. Firebane=dead King Metal, Firebal=dead Metal Babble.

[quote]I'm going away all summer so this run might be finished by the time I'm back! Good luck chessjerk![/quote]

Thanks!

[quote]What I want to know is why you use Mara later on, and why you use only a three man team on the segment that, "you know is gonna be hell".[/quote]

I'm not using Mara, don't know why her name is in there. That should be Cristo, obviously. *fix'd*

Also, it's the Esturk segment that's going to be hell, and that will be a four person party. The three person party is for the World Tree.

FionordeQuester

2010-04-28 08:49:59 pm

Hmm...I don't quite remember, but is it some kind of game requirement that only three guys can traverse the tree?

chessjerk

2010-04-28 09:03:53 pm

Yes. If you take four, Lucia won't join you and you can't get the Zenithian Sword necessary to get to Zenithia.